Do hybrids really save money long‑term once you factor in battery replacement and specialized repairs?
Posted by EvelynClede@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 319 comments
rustoeki@reddit
Is battery replacement really a thing people are doing or is it something you've made up to make hybrids seem more expensive?
BigPapaJava@reddit
It’s enough of a thing that there are services who will come to your house and do it in your driveway. starting at $2k+.
Snag710@reddit
I mean, that's about the cost of a transmission replacement, and a lot of these users are quoting over 200k miles without needing a new battery, so that sounds really cheap in comparison
WeekendWarriorRC@reddit
Even if it was $10k, it would be worth it depending upon what you’re switching from. I have a truck that gets ~15mpg. If I replaced it with a hybrid that gets ~40mpg, the breakeven on a $10k battery replacement is somewhere in the ballpark of 2 years. If we’re comparing it to my daily that gets 30-35mpg, that breakeven takes a lot longer
That said, I don’t think most people are owning these long enough for battery degradation to become an issue
BigPapaJava@reddit
People buy used hybrids. Battery degradation and failure can be an issue on older used vehicles. That is why the resale on old Priuses is so bad compared to nearly every other car Toyota has made.
reidft@reddit
Prius batteries are notoriously easy and cheap to replace
SatanVapesOn666W@reddit
And notoriously expensive since half the shops won't touch them. Normal people don't work on their own car anymore, especially not larger jobs like that. It's easy to forget if your life revolves around cars when you're young and work at a parts store or some shop.
reidft@reddit
I didn't realize removing your rear seats to get to the battery was a large job
SatanVapesOn666W@reddit
To a mechanic? Sure, it's just nuts and bolts. To the average person who doesn't even know how to change a flat tire? Ripping out the interior, dealing with high-voltage lines, lifting a fat battery pack, and clearing codes is absolutely a massive job. I've known junior techs that nearly fried themselves if it weren't for the lead. You are vastly overestimating what the average driver is willing or able to DIY. Would I do it on my car? Sure but I grew up with a grandad to show me how to do car shit and get me into it. Most people would be pressed to locate a ratchet and a 10mm socket. Average Jerome or Jerry gets their 12v normal batter swapped by a minimum wage kid at autozone.
reidft@reddit
OK so assuming the average hybrid owner won't touch a tool and exclusively uses a mechanic. It's a straight forward job, so labor won't be a problem right? Sounds like it's going to be cheaper to get replaced than a rear differential for example. But we don't advocate against Joe Shmoe buying a RWD car or truck. Or someone buying a manual because of the clutch replacement costs. Why are hybrids the exception? Batteries don't need replaced every 3 years like people on the internet like to believe.
SatanVapesOn666W@reddit
Nobody is claiming they die in 3 years, they usually last 10-15. But your analogy is fundamentally flawed because you're confusing mechanical wear with chemical degradation. A clutch wears based on friction and driver habits. If you don't drive like an idiot it can easily last 150k+ miles. A hybrid battery however is a chemical component subject to calendar aging. It has a 100% guarantee of degrading over time regardless of how perfectly you baby it. A 15-year-old clutch with 30k miles is basically brand new but a 15-year-old hybrid battery with 30k miles is a ticking time bomb. Then there is the sheer cost of the parts which makes this an apples-to-oranges comparison. With a manual clutch or a rear diff the replacement part itself is relatively cheap. A new clutch kit is maybe $300 so you're mostly just paying for a mechanic's time. A replacement hybrid battery is thousands of dollars out of pocket before the mechanic even clocks in. Lastly, labor absolutely is a problem. Because the average driver isn't DIYing a lethal high-voltage system in their driveway they have to take it to a shop. But half of the independent mechanics out there won't even touch a hybrid battery due to the liability. That means you get hit with the high-voltage tax and are forced to take it to a specialized EV tech or a dealership charging $200+/hr. You can take a busted clutch to literally any transmission shop on earth but you can't say the same for a hybrid battery.
thewheelsgoround@reddit
It’s a dirt simple job, absolutely a DIY level job if you’re at “change my own brake caliper” level of competence. Takes an hour, most of the time is spent removing and reinstalling interior trim panels.
Any shop which can’t or isn’t willing to swap a hybrid battery isn’t worth working with in the first place. We’ve had them swapped for 2.2 hours at a brick & mortar in situations where a water leak has damaged them. $800 for a used battery, $300 to install it.
toefungi@reddit
Because turbo engines have never had had 1k+ failures. And those CVTs never need replacing either...
Hybrid batteries are just like any other major component of a non-hybrid car. They wont necessarily need replacement soon or often, but at high mileage anything big can still break and need a few grand to fix it.
BigPapaJava@reddit
But the argument being made here is that nobody ever actually has to replace a hybrid battery, which is simply untrue.
They do fail over time and have to be replaced just like a worn out transmission or blown engine. That’s my point and you just made it for me.
Whether a hybrid is the better investment compared to a modern ICE with turbo, CVT, and direct injection… that’s a separate question,
Dan6erbond2@reddit
Seriously man, I'm a huge car guy that doesn't want ICEVs to be banned, but at the same time where are you buying into the idea that hybrid batteries have to be repaired nearly as often to accumulate the same time of average spend compared to other repairs on high mileage cars? In all my research ICE have a lot more issues than worrying about that. At 350k+ miles you've probably had to spend multiple thousands if not tens of thousands on the ICE.
The hybrid batteries that fail earlier are the outliers, not the norm. The same way the Tundra engine or the Theta II don't represent ICE reliability as a whole.
Hybrid systems when done right can also alleviate the stress on the ICE, which means less money spent on routine servicing, etc.
toefungi@reddit
I dont think anyone is arguing that nobody has ever had to replace their hybrid battery.
thewheelsgoround@reddit
A good used battery for a Prius is about $800, takes an hour to swap. It’s a non-issue.
MathematicianIcy3430@reddit
Problem is people don't have $1k in savings let alone $10k to just drop.
thewheelsgoround@reddit
No hybrid battery in the world costs $10k.
jabroni4545@reddit
McLaren and Ferrari batteries would like a word.
rick707@reddit
They do on luxury PHEVs especially the older ones, it’s rough in that world.
Satins_Cock@reddit
If they can't afford a surprise $1k repair bill, they can't afford a car. Doesn't matter what's under the hood.
ClickKlockTickTock@reddit
Ah yes im so glad we live in a place where we can just not have a car lmfao. Dumbest take I've ever seen.
I cant afford a surprise $1k bill on my car, I replace all my own shit.. to do that with a high voltage battery is dangerous as a DIYer if its even possible.
Competitive-Bar-9300@reddit
The DIY battery replacements really aren't that dangerous, but I think people should be getting them replaced by a mechanic if they're unsure though the risk of electrocuting yourself isn't high. Those prices will go down for battery repairs, but you're absolutely right. It is much harder to do DIY repairs on your EV or hybrid than it is on ICE vehicles (especially anything remotely popular) for the most part. Even for the Prius, probably the most well-documented hybrid out there, I doubt many DIYers are replacing the brake actuator when it fails and they need to bleed the system. The battery replacements tend to be much easier than some other hybrid or EV part failures - though not easy enough to make it convenient or very accessible - which often matters a lot more than parts costs.
inflames797@reddit
I'm sure they'll finance it to you for 8 years at 12%, no worries.
NetDork@reddit
True, but America is a place where a great many people who can't afford a car have to have one to get by in life.
No_Organization_7509@reddit
Comparing a 40mpg hybrid sedan to a 15mpg pickup truck is definitely one disingenuous scenario I haven't come across yet...and we have owned hybrids, diesels, turbos, EVs...
Tasty_Clue2802@reddit
That's half the cost of a transmission replace/rebuild on your average ICE vehicle.
SatanVapesOn666W@reddit
Both of which can still also fail on a hybrid. It's not one or the other, it's you get BOTH points of failure. I'll be at they tend to be on the cheaper side of engines and Transmissions being smaller cvts and little three or four banger engines. They are still the same cost of the repair in an economy car for engine and Tranny.
thewheelsgoround@reddit
Find me an example of a failed Toyota eCVT. You’ll be hard pressed. There’s no belt, no clutch packs. It’s about as simplified as a gearbox could ever possibly be.
MIDIHorse@reddit
And Ford (Maverick)
And Chevy (Volt)
And Honda (Civic/Accord/CR-V)
And Subaru (Forester)
And Mazda (CX-50)
SatanVapesOn666W@reddit
Yeah, I'll give you that the Toyota eCVT is generally very good, sure. But "hard pressed"? Not really. MG2 stator shorts or a burnt-out inverter taking the transaxle with it definitely happen. And when an electric motor inside that transaxle shorts out, you can't just rebuild it at AAMCO. You are replacing the entire unit. Even if we ignore the tranny, the engine attached to it isn't always bulletproof even if it's a Toyota. The Prius literally has an entire era (Gen 3) famous for blowing head gaskets. You still have an ICE engine that can grenade itself, plus a massive battery that will eventually degrade. You are still paying to maintain two powertrains. There is simply more added complexity than there is simplification
Senior-Dog-9735@reddit
Wait till this guy figures out how many points of failure can happen inside a non hybrid transmission.
dumpin-on-time@reddit
it's fear mongering
toybuilder@reddit
My wife's 2013 Prius needed its hybrid battery replaced at \~12 years/180,000 miles. It was under $3,000 for parts+labor. If we lived in a fairly flat area, it probably would have done far better -- but frequent hill climbs probably aged it a bit more quickly than is typical.
toybuilder@reddit
My wife's Prius did need a hybrid battery replacement at about 180,000 miles, about 12 years in. That is in line with what people have been expecting/reporting.
It was under $3,000 for the parts + labor.
havnar-@reddit
Made up
WizeAdz@reddit
Check prices here: https://greentecauto.com/
The chances you’ll need this are about the same as the chances you’ll need a refurbished AAMCO transmission.
And most hybrids have a radically simplified transmission, so there’s a much lower chance you’ll need a rebuilt transmission if you own a hybrid.
So, if you’re nervous about batteries, check here and use those numbers in your decision.
But also be advised that people who don’t like to learn things will make up all kinds of reasons why the new ways must be terrible and why whatever they already know is the best. It takes all kinds of humans to make a society.
JustAnotherFNC@reddit
Yup, when I bought my 2014 MKZh four years ago it had 132k so I was concerned. I set aside the $2k green tec wanted and waited... and waited... and waited... and still waiting. Battery hasn't failed and I still get 40+ mpg with 286k miles now.
Looks like they have an updated one with newer gen hardware for $3k now. Maybe I'll need to buy that eventually, but I learned not to hold my breath.
Mr-Zappy@reddit
My parents needed one on their old gen 2 Prius (2005 I think, but maybe 2004). It didn’t originally come with an air filter for the battery ventilation, so it likely had dust accumulate and result in hot spots. Of course, every hybrid made in the last 15+ years doesn’t have that problem.
Also, it was replaced under warranty because unlike transmissions, hybrid batteries have 10-year 150k mile warranties.
NoEmu5969@reddit
My 2007 Prius has no filter and has over 250,000 miles on the original battery. I have removed the duct to clean it and balance the cells once at 230,000 miles.
DetectiveNarrow@reddit
It’s like a transmission. Could last forever. Could die at the worst moment and it’s not a cheap repair. Depends who you hear from
ReallySmallWeenus@reddit
In most cases, you can still continue to drive with a dead, or at least severely degraded, hybrid battery.
DetectiveNarrow@reddit
Sometimes the case with a transmission. Like yeah it’ll spin the wheels the point B but it’ll suck lol. And of course there’s goes you MPG and stuff
ReallySmallWeenus@reddit
I’ve driven with a failing transmission and the difference is night and day. A hybrid with a bad battery drives normally and just gets a worse of fuel economy.
SatanVapesOn666W@reddit
Assuming you have a mild hybrid or only battery degraded, which is distinct from the battery actually being bad. If the battery is truly bad, it ain't going anywhere. most have their starter system tied into it. Should the battery fail the car won't even start.
rtshtbtshtdrtyldtwt@reddit
in that case it'd be the cheapo 12v battery and not the hybrid battery. the majority of hybrids use the 12v to start the car
SatanVapesOn666W@reddit
That's factually incorrect. The 12V battery is just there to boot up the computers and run the lights. Most modern full hybrids don't even have a conventional starter motor. Instead, they use the main high-voltage traction battery to power the electric motor that physically cranks the gas engine. If the big battery is dead, there is no way to start the car. Even the OG Prius literally didn't have a 12V starter, and that was basically just a Toyota Echo with a battery slapped on it. The system you're thinking of was only common on older Hondas (like the Civic Hybrid and Insight) where they only ever half-committed to the electric motor and needed a regular starter as a backup.
SatanVapesOn666W@reddit
As someone who worked in a shop. No, when the battery on say a prius died half the time people would scrap the car becuase the replacement cost was such a sizable portion of the cars value.
Chockfullofnutmeg@reddit
They battery replacement was a bigger problem for early air cooled batteries , and vehicles that sat too long not being driven.
Big-Square-2978@reddit
It's definitely a thing if you just do a quick Google search.
It's not a thing for people in this subreddit who don't take care of their cars and treat them as disposable toys that they use for 5-10 years max.
eldredo_M@reddit
Got 244k miles on my 2010 Honda Insight.
What is this battery replacement and specialized repairs you speak of? 🤔
Still averaging 38-39mpg even with the snow tires in Michigan winters. It’s the rust that’s going to end its life, not the fact it’s a hybrid.
Snag710@reddit
I'm sure it's a different story in places like California where the heat can crystalize the lithium ion batteries a lot quicker
robindawilliams@reddit
Anti EV propaganda from like 2015, way back when Ford and GM and them thought they could just disparage the tech and not build anything new, it really still has most of North America convinced the batteries are these $40,000 unreliable death traps.
Meanwhile I think even if you include the earliest shittiest 'experimental' batteries I think the total battery replacement across electric/hybrid vehicles has been something like 1.5%. This probably includes the taxis that have a million miles on their 10 year old Tesla where they're ICE equivalent car probably would have gone through 3-4 engines and a few transmissions in the same distance.
Xyzzydude@reddit
GM was building the Volt and developing the next generation in 2015.
MaleficentExtent1777@reddit
They were also selling hybrid trucks in 2004 and added SUVs in 2008. Ford started selling the Fusion hybrid in 2010.
Apprehensive-Cycle-9@reddit
Even before that the escape hybrid in 2005
tankmouse@reddit
The Volt was the dumbest sham, and very short lived production.
It was an "electric vehicle" that was powered by gasoline. It still had a clutch and gears even.
The battery in it only got about 60km, so realistically it was a plug-in hybrid being falsely marketed as an electric vehicle.
It also only had 4 seats not 5, had side worse fuel efficiency than any plug in hybrid available at the time, had a ton of drag, and was ultimately just built on top of the Chevy Cruze platform.
toybuilder@reddit
Them's fighting words if you talk to the people in r/volt - only now are they starting to reach a point where they can't keep their beloved Volts going because parts availability is starting to get thin.
And the Volt was a series hybrid, so it really is an EV with a range extender.
tankmouse@reddit
Lol, then it would be the lowest range of any EV ever produced. How can you call a vehicle with ~60km battery range an EV? That's just a workaround to be able to technically fit a description despite the reality
toybuilder@reddit
Because if you live in urban/suburban areas and had a typical daily usage of under 30 miles/day, you can charge overnight and run entirely on battery mode most of the time.
I've had my EV now for 6 months. I put about 5,000 miles in that time. That's 27 miles/day average.
Yeah, I've had a few 100+ mile days (less than 10, probably closer to 5) so far. But most of my days would totally have been battery only on a 35 mile EREV.
tankmouse@reddit
So does that make my prius prime, a plug in hybrid, also an EV? Because I'm in the same situation as you, so it must be the case. I don't know why they didn't market it also as an EV if the Volt is an EV.
toybuilder@reddit
The key distinction between why a regular hybrid is not considered an "EV" is that there's no way to power the regular hybrid from an external electric power source. That is, it can never operate as a regular EV. A plug-in hybrid operates like an EV and can do so without fueling up with gas as long as it's driven entirely in battery mode.
toybuilder@reddit
Prius Prime is a "PHEV" - plug-in hybrid EV.
The Volt is a "EREV" - extended range EV. The BMW i3 was also an EREV in its "REX" configuration.
As a practical matter for consumers, the lines are blurry. But a PHEV is designed with the intention of having propulsion coming from the gas powered engine as a normal part of its operation.
An EREV is designed to be powered by electricity, with the engine acting primarily as an electric generator, not as a propulsion source. The Volt apparently was engineered to allow the engine to contribute to propulsion as well under very limited scenarios.
sneakpeekbot@reddit
Here's a sneak peek of /r/volt using the top posts of the year!
#1: We did a thing this weekend | 62 comments
#2: Dealer quoted me $35k to replace my HV battery | 180 comments
#3: Ukraine forces tried to use Volt to try to bomb Crimea bridge, hidden explosives in battery | 37 comments
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toybuilder@reddit
The "Dealer quoted me $35K to replace my HV battery" is not the same as "it costs $35K to replace my HV battery" if one is willing to shop around.
My Nissan dealership offered to replace the cabin air filter for $105 in parts+labor...
I did it myself in 15 minutes with a $10 replacement part. Next time will probably be closer to 7 minutes.
dizzie_buddy1905@reddit
That’s just like Toyota’s “self charging EV” 🙄
tankmouse@reddit
Not sure I've heard of that, which model is it?
dkbGeek@reddit
The Volts had a CVT (so no "gears") and they used a planetary gearset that included computer-controlled clutches to manage power from engine, electric and combined. It didn't have a clutch that the driver could operate. If you needed more than its all-electric range, it never matched the city mpg of GM's own Malibu hybrid, much less a Camry Hybrid or Prius.
It was first delivered in the US, and wasn't sold in Europe until about a year later, under Chevrolet, Opel and Vauxhall brands.
tankmouse@reddit
Oh my bad, I was mixing up when it was discontinued in Europe vs discontinued in the US. When it was discontinued in Europe is when they did the remodel for the US.
I was referring to the american remodel though, from. 2016 to 2019, gas engine torque was being sent directly to the wheels through a mechanical connection rather than being used as a generator in the original 2011-2015 model.
Ok_Ad3036@reddit
I think the original Volt was sold at a loss to Chevy.
Xyzzydude@reddit
The 2nd generation Volt’s battery range exceeds every PHEV you can buy today. Also unlike the Toyota Prime PHEVs the engine doesn’t kick in under acceleration, it stays pure battery until depleted (except for some extreme edge cases like extreme cold).
No one has made a better PHEV.
TrainDifficult300@reddit
I was getting 57 miles per charge. It was a great little car.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
This is pretty accurate. There were settings to adjust how the gas behaved. Very good car from a technical standpoint. Much better driving than my parents prius from the same year. Rest of the car was pretty cheap. Rental car interior was my favorite description. GM and dealers did absolutely nothing to sell that car. And then they canceled it.
TrainDifficult300@reddit
I had a volt, wish they didn’t discontinue it. Fun car to drive
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
GM hated the volt. Remember all those volt commercials? Nope. Rest of the car? Chevy Cruz. Dealers bought them, took the tax write off, used them as loaners and then sold them as cpo. It was like the Fiat 500e. Made to appease some federal fleet requirement.
titanium_bruno@reddit
I understand the point you are making, but by the time the volt was being made, the reputation for EVs had already been put in the shitter. It is very much a general consensus in the US that EVs are inferior in every way to an ICE driven vehicle.
Now, im an American so obviously its not all of us, but yea. Generally speaking if you ask 10 people which they prefer the majority are going to say ICE.
PeddlerDavid@reddit
Not sure where this narrative about Ford and GM disparaging electrification came from either…. Ford started making the Escape Hybrid in 2005.
keithrc@reddit
Hedging their bets. No reason both can't be true.
Shamelesspromote@reddit
Its Reddit, if you state something confident enough you will be upvoted and thats all that matters.
I still remember how reddit handled the Boston Bomber and consistently reminded how little the average redditor actually knows about what they talk about. Hell people get things in my own profession entirely wrong and adamantly defend their point when I have a very personal knowledge on the subject.
Its probably mostly kids saying dumb shit like we all have but parts of me wonder if they are testing AI chatbots on Reddit
cat_of_danzig@reddit
That original Volt was great. An electric car with a range extender packaged like a hybrid. Scouts coming out with the same thing in 2027 or whenever they make it to production.
Individual-Fail4709@reddit
And Ford had multiple hybrids and PHEVs and the Focus EV. That is a ridiculous statement.
robindawilliams@reddit
Oh damn, they were actually that thing selling back in 2010. Call me corrected on GM. I knew they killed the EV1 with prejudice but someone at GM was clearly seeing the vision early on and kept trying to make EVs happen.
myrichiehaynes@reddit
I'm not rying to argue, but every other consumer good with rechargeable batteries looses its fuctional capacity over time and this is something people can relate to. If someone has an iPhone and they know that after two years it's battery doesn't last as long, this is the framework people are thinking with, regardless of how different the technology may or may not be.
Novogobo@reddit
Ok but apple is a slimy company that writes firmware to make their phones shit after a few years so people will go buy a new phone. Toyota doesn't do that.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Other than phones, which aren't designed for longevity, they tend to lose useful capacity very slowly. I have 2 Canon LP-E6 batteries in my pool that are from 2009 and 2010 that are still at ~80% and those are $100 camera batteries with no active management or cooling.
I feel like most people have some experience with batteries outside of a phone and honestly, just common sense should prevail; it's a car, it's meant to last.
EnvironmentFun4136@reddit
Oh boy saying “it’s a car it was meant to last” in the age of planned obsolescence has to be the most ignorant thing I’ve heard today.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Thinking we're in that age is the most ignorant thing I've read today.
Planned obsolescence was coined by GM's Alfred Sloan 102 years ago and was a much worse issue up until the '80s. Cars have never been more long-lived than they are now.
sundaygolfer269@reddit
I think the iPhone is a great example. I had both a 6 and a 7, and I replaced them because of the newer features not because the batteries were failing. The batteries were still within acceptable performance levels.
I think EVs will follow a similar path owners will replace them not because they’re worn out, but because newer models will offer better features, more efficient batteries, faster charging, and longer range.
Satins_Cock@reddit
Even phones can have super long battery life. The Motorola g power lasts forever. You're right though, most phones aren't designed to last, and replacing the battery isn't cost effective.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Yeah, more recent phones have gotten better in that regard, especially now that high density batteries are less on the limit than they were.
They're still not really expected to last more than 5-6 years, but better than 2-3.
ColdCelebration2132@reddit
I have a Samsung work tablet that is over 5 years old used in a dirty dusty environment extreme temperature conditions and it's battery is still as good as new. When I first got it I set the charge limit to 90% My cellphone is a Pixel 8 Pro I only charge it to 90% and after 2 years it still hasn't shown any battery degradation.
pimpbot666@reddit
A telephone battery is a much different thing than an EV battery.
EVs have much better battery management, and active cooling systems. Phones are designed to get the longest runtime at the expense of battery service life. Very few people keep their phones for 10 years.
pkupku@reddit
My favorite GM vehicle names were the impact for their first modern EV, and the nova (Spanish for won’t go) for another sedan. Real geniuses.
DilapidatedPlum@reddit
Where are these tesla taxis with 1million miles on them?
sundaygolfer269@reddit
NYC
robindawilliams@reddit
https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2116/the-story-of-a-tesla-model-s-that-has-traveled-over-two-million-kilometers
This one just hit 2,000,000 km!
myrichiehaynes@reddit
still an accomplishement, but the article clearly says he's been through several replacement batteries
Throwaway_2474128_1@reddit
other than the first battery, it seems like 350k+ miles per battery. most gas cars don't last that long without an engine or transmission rebuild
CompetitiveLab2056@reddit
Only 38-39mpg? My 8th gen civic gets 37 with its five speed…. The autos can get more
WootangClan17@reddit
I just heard yesterday that Honda guarantees their batteries for 8 years. You may need to dlfact check this however.
alltheticks@reddit
To be fair an insight is on a different level.
Novogobo@reddit
The 2010 insight is nothing special.
eldredo_M@reddit
Prius is still the gold standard. There are some Prii out there with crazy high miles.
No-Understanding-912@reddit
Similar. 240k on a 2012 Prius and still getting around 50 mpg. The only "specialized" equipment is the low rolling resistance tires that we don't even bother buying. At this point replacing a battery isn't much different than dealing with something major going out on a high mileage ICE car.
eldredo_M@reddit
And unlike an EV, battery degradation in a hybrid is not a catastrophic failure—it simply may impact performance efficiency.
If the engine goes in an ICE car, it’s game over.
PlanetExcellent@reddit
Same here, I put 150k on a Prius and only had one hybrid-related problem: an animal chewed into a cable underneath the car. Cost a few hours in labor to fix but no parts. Otherwise it was just like owning a non-hybrid that uses less gas.
liarliarplants4hire@reddit
I sold a 2014 Ford fusion hybrid to a buddy at 180,000 miles with absolutely nothing outside of routine maintenance and he is still rocking it. It was averaging 38mpg from the day. I bought it until the day I sold it. It was easily one of the best cars I’ve ever owned.
Middle_Bottle_339@reddit
The Fusion hybrids are sturdy. And of course Ford doesn’t make them anymore
Own-Secret-6523@reddit
We had a 2015 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid (essentially the same car with some Fusion options standard) and had a similar experience. At 112k miles we didn't need a third car anymore last year and gave it to a friend of ours's daughter. We averaged between 40-44 mph and the money saved on fuel over the years was stellar.
cat_of_danzig@reddit
Testing is showing that battery life is much better than expected.
bulbous_mongolian@reddit
Yup recently sold my 2010 insight with 260k. Had to change spark plugs but that’s about it
eldredo_M@reddit
Yep, regular maintenance and tires. I'm still on my second set of brake pads, too.
hardcoretuner@reddit
So many folks have bought into oil industry propaganda they think hybrid batteries are going bad all the time. Ive been in auto industry for almost 20 years. Ive seen hybrid batteries fail. I'm aware of 4. Out of tens of thousands ive been involved with from a corporate level with a multiple OEMs.
CarbonInTheWind@reddit
The battery isn't the issue for me. I compare the upfront price increase on the hybrid against his much extra I would pay for the ICE version for the amount of time I'll have the vehicle. On my last purchase the ICE version made more sense when I ran the numbers.
But that's very vehicle and buyer dependent.
shanerr90@reddit
My 2010 insight just hit 200k still same battery
ThirdSunRising@reddit
Just one data point but: Chevy Volt, 2012, approaching 200k miles. No battery replacements yet but yeah the battery is getting tired. No specialized service apart from occasionally rebooting the computer when it gets a bug. Total cost of these things: $0
DriveRightCarBuying@reddit
Loved my Volt. Such a great car. Batteries are getting tired though, mine was all but dead at 100k miles. Purely an age thing, just had a few cells start to die.
Such a great run around car though.
reidft@reddit
Impressive considering how 2011 and 2012 are the worst years. There's one out there with around 600k on the original battery
Xyzzydude@reddit
The most reliable and low-maintenance car I ever owned was a Prius.
Satins_Cock@reddit
I replaced my Prius battery, took about 2 hours for a complete noob with no special tools. I'll take that over a clutch replacement or similar regular car repair any day.
mdmoon2101@reddit
Of course they save money. Battery replacement is not a thing. Specializes repairs? Like what? In fact, the engine runs half the time instead of all the time, so if anything, you save on repairs.
Satins_Cock@reddit
They just seem simpler too. No; starter to go bad, complicated clutch packs like a regular transmission, complicated turbo systems, complicated idle start stop systems, displacement on command, etc. Just a little engine kind of putting along, and some electric motors.
F26N55@reddit
I don’t think the majority of hybrids will require a battery replacement. Not at least while the car is still worth a decent amount.
dumpin-on-time@reddit
yes
Ukbutton@reddit
I have not heard of anyone replacing batteries on hybrids. I drive and EV and it saves me loads in fuel costs. 250 mike range cost is £5 to fill.
Jakomako@reddit
I have. It’s like $1000-$3000 (depending on new vs refurb cells) to replace the whole battery module in a 3rd gen Prius. It’s super easy to install as well. Might be necessary sometime around the 15 year mark. Doesn’t really matter how much it’s driven, they just eventually fail to time.
terminalzero@reddit
Not as scary of a diy job as it might seem, too
ThePurch@reddit
My in-laws Kona EV just had the battery replaced out of warranty for the tune of $19,000CAD. Only 200k km on it. It seems Canadian winters kill them.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
That’s because they had the dealer do it with dealer parts. There’s a company out of Quebec City that sells the battery for $5k
ThePurch@reddit
What kind of warranty do the QC guys offer and are the cell brand new or refurbished? They were quoted $13,000 installed for refurbished batteries but the warranty was only 2 years and 50k km.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Neither they are used 1 year warranty.
https://ingenext.ca/collections/batteries?srsltid=AfmBOornnIL2l8Ud3H7mwheSqcjNWADO7fITFEDgthKYN3qLmL--WFnY
ThePurch@reddit
Used? Yeah no kidding they’re $5k. In 13 months you could be in for another $5k. And that also doesn’t include labour.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
It’s a 4h job. So about $1k in labour. You could do 3 batteries for the price of 1 dealer one.
ThePurch@reddit
Yes, but the piece of mind is worth a lot for many people.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
$13k is worth more to most. Especially on a car that’s only worth about $20k is it already has 200k km in it
ThePurch@reddit
Ok man, you’re right.
pbesmoove@reddit
What battery replacement and specialized repairs?
edwardniekirk@reddit
Yes
squirrel8296@reddit
I've known a lot of people who have had hybrids and I don't think a single one of them ever needed a battery replacement, even after 300,000 miles. They also don't need any specialized repairs (unless you get super unlucky and have a battery failure), their normal maintenance is the same as a gas car.
That being said, you do have to do the math if a hybrid is worth it for you. If you are comparing a gas Civic or Corolla to a hybrid of the same car, for example, there are situations where you will not see the pay off because of the price premium for the hybrid and the gas version already gets such good gas mileage. It only makes sense if you drive a ton, you plan on keeping the car for a very long time, or gas prices continue to go up.
Aegean8485@reddit
Which specialized repairs and battery replacement? My 2013 Lexus ES300h had 0 issues on 13 years, not even a single light bulb.
Savilly@reddit
I put had a prius for five years and only replaced brakes and headlights/wipers. I had a popped a tire once and it was like $120 for a new one.
Was by far the absolute cheapest care I ever owned.
I got a subaru and spent more on a popped tire than five years of prius maintenance.
Equal-Fee770@reddit
Hybrids only save money if you’re usually in the city. Rarely do I hear people say that hybrids get better fuel economy on the highway than a regular gas version of the same vehicle
LieLevel7361@reddit
All depends how you use car. If in city, yeah for sure as stop and go but if you live more rural place without traffic.. Maybe not? For me biggest problem is hybrid systems are integrated with gearbox. Any malfunction ll cost you money.
Special_Context6663@reddit
The Toyota synergy drive is the most reliable transmission in automotive history
LieLevel7361@reddit
I know there is no tragic in this area but still minus for me not on plus...
Living_Fig_6386@reddit
Yes. Before we went fully electric, we had Priuses. There was never a "specialty repair" - they are probably one of the lowest cost to maintain cars on the market. The one we have the longest went 180K miles without the need for a battery swap. I gave it to my sister who drove it another 60K miles after that, same battery. At that point the pack was probably mostly spent, but she wasn't going to pay $1600 for a new hybrid battery so she traded it in.
LakeEffect_CarHunter@reddit
Hybrids are prob your best bet right now
Ice is a close second
EVs are niche and def not for everyone yet
Doublestack00@reddit
Considering most Prius get 300-500K from the original battery, I would say yes.
ThePurch@reddit
That depends where you live. My buddy’s 2nd gen Prius made it to 325k km (200k miles) before it needed a new battery. Canadian winters are hard on batteries. It was somewhere around $4500 for a replacement which is pretty darn reasonable considering how much money he’s saved in fuel.
Vivid-Software6136@reddit
200k miles isn't bad for Canada. In milder climates those 2nd gen prius batteries last forever.
Gold_Mark5708@reddit
Quit pretending that states doesn’t have an equally cold climate in parts of it. Infact more Americans live further north than Canadians. The cars will experience the same life for a majority of Canadians as it would any American
myippick@reddit
While you have a point I'm not sure why you choose this person to respond to. They said "milder climates" and nothing about the US or anything you're on about.
Gold_Mark5708@reddit
Oh to be as dense as the average Redditor. Milder climate on a thread about Americans getting more lifetime on there battery then Canadians quit acting like the average Canadian lives in a fucking igloo are climates are very similar unless you go to sparsely populated areas
myippick@reddit
Lol wut? 🤣 Who are you talking to? Everything you say is based entirely on things nobody that you're responding to is saying.
Maybe pick the comments that actually say these things to reply to? Or do you not know that you can actually select reply to the relevant comment?
JustAnotherFNC@reddit
Huh. So apparently there are Canadians that are cunts.
Ithrowaway000@reddit
Their*
Our*
ThePurch@reddit
But climate makes far more of an impact than longitude. Dublin is 1,100km further north than Toronto, yet we see FAR colder temps and gnarlier winter conditions.
Gold_Mark5708@reddit
Irrelevant my point is more Americans live in similar climate to the average Canadian due to us hugging there boarder. Obviously going more north doesn’t equal colder temps you dense pos Redditor
ThePurch@reddit
Brother, are you ok?
Vivid-Software6136@reddit
I live in Ireland where the coldest it gets is -5C maybe 2 or 3 days a year. And a hot day is 25C.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
200k km is 125k miles
havnar-@reddit
American used the wrong shoe size to measure freedom miles
Negate79@reddit
That mileage/ kilometer on Canada. I would expect it to be a pile of rust first
iWish_is_taken@reddit
I live in Canada, my average winter temps are 8C and while we usually get a cold snap or two that take us to approx -2C and a couple days of snow, had zero snow this winter.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Not with proper treatment. I’m in Ottawa and usually get 200k mile or 12 years from my cars. My Mazda is almost rust free at 12 years
Negate79@reddit
I'm in the Southern US. Rust is not much of a problem but having every plastic clip and Rubber bushing turn to powdered is my issue.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
We have that too. Road salt is a bitch
ThePurch@reddit
My 2005 Matrix has 730,000km on it. It has rust but nothing serious.
One-Storm555@reddit
Yeah they save tons of money is the answer
Dramatic-Season-2959@reddit
They don’t need battery replacements and they’re more reliable than non hybrids.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Depends on how much you drive.
I put around 30k on my vehicles a year. Not worth it to me.
Jakomako@reddit
The more you drive, the more money you save on gas. You sure you did the math right?
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Until that battery needs replaced! That wipes out all the savings.
I always dump them in 4 years anyways, before they lose all their value.
New-Patient-101@reddit
lol. No your dumping them after the major depreciation has set in. The first 3 years of a vehicles life has the most depreciation.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
I always pick them up around 20-25k miles. Usually 2-3 years old. I know what I'm doing. 😉
DogblackMichigan@reddit
So you choose a 15 cents per mile in fuel vehicle instead of 10 cents per mile. You buy at two years old and sell at six. You put 120k miles on. That’s $18,000 in fuel. You could be at $12,000 in fuel.
If you went EV you’d be at 3 cents a mile and save half of maintenance costs.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
I can't do EV because I drive a lot for work. No way I can stop to charge every so often. I work in the cut, too. No chargers in sight.
Hybrid batteries do wear out. I'm not paying for a new one since I don't keep my cars that long anyways.
No CVT either.
Works for me. I only pay for tires and brakes (free oil changes at the dealership). Gas is just part of the deal. I dump them before they start having issues.
DogblackMichigan@reddit
You drive 30k miles per year. Even if you drove only for work M-F 50 weeks a year, 30000/250=120 miles per day. An EV that has an average range of 250 would be more than enough.
Us EV drivers never interrupt our day to charge. We drive all day and charge at night. We can start every day at 100%.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Well I start at 80% on a normal day. For better battery life
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Unfortunately I think the amount of consumer debt in this country shows just how many people buy things on desire rather than financial intelligence.
DogblackMichigan@reddit
EV driving is definitely a sign of financial wisdom.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Not nessarily. It would highly depend on which car you bought, how you paid for it and why choose to buy it at that time.
For me I bought a 3 year old Kona when the rust on my 11 year old Cruze became dangerous. And I paid cash for it.
I picked it because it met my needs and I could afford to pay cash for it.
Vivid-Software6136@reddit
If you only drive cars for 4 years why do you care about battery replacements that you generally only need after 10-15 years?
do you also price in a new timing belt when buying a car? Because that's equally dumb.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
10-15 years driving 10-12k a year. What does that add up to? About where I dump them???
And yep, def get that timing belt looked at. My mechanic replaces those for around $1k. Again, usually dumped before I need to, but I'll get it done if recommended.
Also get all my fluids checked, flushed, replaced as needed. I drive A LOT. I take care of my vehicles.
Sorry I'm so dumb 🙄 Maybe hybrids will be better in three years when I'm looking for a new car.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Most full EVs have a 100-125k mile battery replacement warrenty if your dumping them that fast you wouldnt ever need to pay for a battery anyway.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
I'm not installing an EV charger at my house. Ever.
DogblackMichigan@reddit
You don’t need an EV charger. You can charge on a 110v outlet. If you want to charge a little faster use a 220v outlet like for a stove or clothes dryer.
By the way, I’m curious. Why do you so adamantly not want an EV charger at your house?
Jakomako@reddit
You have some really weird dogmatic aversions to things that would save you a lot of money.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Or cost me a lot of money?
Plus, my house isn't setup to have a charger. Just won't happen.
Enjoy though! It works for me.
Jakomako@reddit
How much do you think it costs to install an EV charger?
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
I don't have a place to install it. I don't have a garage.
Jakomako@reddit
A driveway is typically adequate. Really doesn’t seem like that’s the only reason.
Oh well, not like I care how much money you waste.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
My car doesn't fit in my driveway. I don't need to explain this.
Anyways, not interested in an EV and never will be.
Jakomako@reddit
Does it even count as a driveway then?
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
100%
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
I don’t think it matters he’s too worried about how it makes him look
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Mine cost $300 and plugs into a standard 220v outlet like a dryer plug or a welder plug (you can buy them in either set up)
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
30k km a year would save you around $2000 compared to 8 L/100km small SUV if you charge at home. And gas was $1.50/L.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
It's not km, it's miles. I'm in the US.
There's no way I'm installing an EV charger at my house.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Well your gas is cheaper so it’ll probably save you about $3500 a year then. Or $14k in the 4 years you keep a car
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
EV is just not an option for me.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Because you don’t want it be and are assuming or because you’ve actually run the numbers.
Cause I have 60 mile round trip commute in Canadian rural areas and the car I bought is a Kona with one of the shortest ranges and worst winter performances and I could EASILY do double that commute no issues using that car and the $300 plug in charging set up I have.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Because of the industry I work in. If I show up in an EV, I'll be laughed out of the office.
Also, my house isn't setup to have a charger installed.
And honestly, I don't like them and need something with some balls. I work in the cut, up and down hills, gravel driveways, snow, sleet, hail, pouring rain.
I'll revisit in 3 years, maybe a hybrid. But I doubt it.
Anyways, I'm done. Do what you want. I think they suck.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
No one can help you if you care more about you image then your wallet.
FYI I’m a heavy truck mechanic that works on fuel haulers and construction vehicles. And I drive an EV.
MiningDave@reddit
It's kind of funny but, both long haul OTR truckers I know drive EVs, not hybrids. Both have the same reason, last longer with no work having to be done on them. Come back home from driving across the country and don't have to worry about anything. Just get in and drive. No oil changes, no gas going bad because they did not drive enough to empty a tank in the last 6 months, just drive it.
I keep telling them to loose the cars and just rent when they need it, but nope they want their cars.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
They could by a diesel and get the same results sort of. Diesel can last for well over a year in a tank.
But I’m kinda with them I’d want to own my car too.
MiningDave@reddit
Yeah, but there are still oil changes and DEF does go bad over a couple of years.
I get people want their cars, but when you do less then 5k miles a year over a few dozen days of driving, I as a cheap SOB start twitching when people are spending $1000s on insurance and other things for that little amount of driving.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Oh I’d buy an old diesel like 1.9L TDI for that. Spend like $5k and only get liability insurance.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Not my industry, not even close. But good for you, I guess
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
Unless your industry is being a macho man I promise you mine is meaner. I always say the same thing when someone makes a comment.
“Which one of us has the bigger bank account”
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
I mean, probably me because I can afford gas and don't have to buy some pussy EV? 😂
Anyways, I'm done. Good luck with that
Jakomako@reddit
Hybrid batteries last like 15 years and are much cheaper to replace than a torque converter automatic transmission that will crap out long before an eCVT shits the bed.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
I don't buy CVTs. And I don't buy new since I drive so much. Usually 2-3 years old. Around 20k miles.
Jakomako@reddit
A torque converter automatic is a regular slushbox. eCVTs are considerably more reliable.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Yeah, maybe next time. Maybe.
Special_Context6663@reddit
My 2013 Prius saved me $92,000 compared to the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics national average. It was by far the lowest cost per mile car I’ve ever had.
Yummy_Castoreum@reddit
Yes. That's why taxi fleets run them.
There's not a lot of "specialized repairs." The Toyota hybrid system's transmission is simpler than a conventional transmission. That's one reason the Prius is insanely reliable.
The hybrid battery is small and works hard, so it will die sooner than a pure EV's battery would, but that's still after way more miles than a private owner would likely ever put on their car.
InfiniteAnything7342@reddit
I got 305k miles out of my Lexus rx400h before the battery quit. Drive it every day and it'll last. I sold it to peddle for a grand. I still miss that suv. I loved the fact you could leave the ac on for pets when you run into store.
rjlawrencejr@reddit
The likelihood of battery replacement is low.
But if you’re going that route, you also need to factor the cost of an engine or transmission repair/replacement in a conventional ICE vehicle.
keithrc@reddit
Battery replacement has turned out to be a largely irrelevant fear. How much of that was genuine science-based concern and how much was FUD from the fossil fuel industry, we'll never really know.
As far as specialized repairs, I'm not sure what you mean- electric motors basically don't need any, and that's more-or-less the only unique component of a hybrid drivetrain over an ICE one.
usernameS4@reddit
My wife's plug in hybrid went 850 miles on 11 gallons of gas. Thats about a $15,000 difference in fuel cost over the non-hybrid version of her vehicle over 100,000 miles, which is when the warranty coverage on the battery expires.
ApprehensiveWash7969@reddit
If my mechanic is correct I do not have to worry about the hybrid battery. Ever. Reason: Honda makes them with manual transmissions. If the batter goes out on my Civic it will still drive because its has a manual transmission. Not sure how true that is but my Civic currently has 238k miles and still kicking. And am getting around 38-40 mpg.
Anyone have an insight on hybrids with manual transmissions? This might be a Honda only question cause am not aware of any other car manufacturers who build a hybrid with a manual transmission. Toyota definitely lost a Prius sale.
MarthaTheBuilder@reddit
I’ve had 6 cars. The most expensive car repair I’ve ever had was replacing a manual transmission and clutch. After that, I had two hybrids - for 15 years. Now I have an EV.
With the hybrids, the most expensive thing was tires, then oil changes, then my 100k service, then brakes. I’ve never had to change the 12v batteries nor the hybrid batteries. Since Toyota makes so many hybrids it’s super cheap to get your battery refurbished or get a reconditioned pack swapped out. The Prius never needed a brake job and I bought that car very used. The Lexus had a brake job because I drove like an ass.
I saved SO MUCH MONEY with the by riding driving to and from center city Philadelphia daily.
cactusjackalope@reddit
Battery replacement” is hardly a thing. If a cell goes bad they replace the cell, not the whole thing. The press makes it out to be a much bigger deal than it actually is.
KeeganY_SR-UVB76@reddit
Depends on use case. If 90% of your driving is highways, then a hybrid won’t do much for you.
Middle_Bottle_339@reddit
??? My hybrid gets 37mpg when I drive like a deranged cunt on the highway
KeeganY_SR-UVB76@reddit
That doesn’t mean anything unless you know how much MPG the non-hybrid version gets.
NetDork@reddit
Are the failing batteries in the room with us now?
jeepsies@reddit
Yes of course
Insufferable_Entity@reddit
I don't know if others have mentioned it. Depending on the state they charge more to register hybrid vehicles. This can eat into the gas savings quickly.
Before moving out of state I discovered Wisconsin adds $75 to register for hybrids to make up for loss of gas taxes....
sundaygolfer269@reddit
Honda Prius is like the number 1 taxi in the world. Mongolia buy old used Prius to herd taxis. There people who made a career selling Prius with 140k -200k.
GallitoGaming@reddit
It will likely last you 15 years, if you don’t drive 10K miles a year and plan on keeping your car for 20 years, there likely is no savings. If you drive a bunch and plan on dumping it under 15 years, you will likely save money depending on resale value of the car.
Litig8or53@reddit
Hybrids are obsolete tech for people who have bought into anti-BEV propaganda.
JustAnotherFNC@reddit
What battery replacement?
My 2014 MKZ hybrid has 286k miles on the original EV battery and still gets 40+ mpg.
If it fails, I can replace it for $2k in my driveway with hand tools.
BoogieBoardButtPound@reddit
I’ve put 150k+ on a couple of different hybrids with no battery issues.
Realistic-Table9398@reddit
185k on my 2010 Prius with the original battery
ExtensionDull@reddit
Discussions on hybrid batteries are under rated. They can be a huge cost, and if you drive a lot of miles, that cost will be sooner than later...
MeesterCHRIS@reddit
Let’s be real. 90% of buyers aren’t keeping a car long enough to replace any batteries or do any specialized repair.
Even myself I have never kept a car to the 200k mile mark.
Powerful-Conflict554@reddit
Had a prius for a while. Toyotas are great. Easy, low maintenance. Never had an issue with the battery and took it over 200k. It saved tons of money in gas and other maintenance versus my other ICE cars. So I'd say "yes", but I did pay a bit of a premium for it at the time.
Several_Ad_6576@reddit
I can’t speak to repairs long term. I have had a plug in hybrid for a little over a year. I have not had to purchase gas since sometime in February. I assume long term maintenance costs could be similar to other cars. But I might also trade it in in 6 years for the latest EV/Plugin. All the money I am saving right now in high gas prices can go to replacing batteries in 10 years.
grogi81@reddit
What battery replacements?!
ndaddydong@reddit
A lot of hybrids don’t have alternators, so by the time the hybrid battery would’ve went, you’d probably have replaced 1-3 alternators+however more you’d have spent on gas.
Most Toyota Priuses are still on the original hybrid battery
thewheelsgoround@reddit
We have a huge fleet at work with hundreds of Toyota hybrids.
Lots have hit 300k on their entirely original powertrain. That’s saving ~$20k in fuel and another $4k in brake work. They’re all on their original powertrains including battery.
For the one-offs which have needed a battery replacement - usually due to water damage - we get a used pack out of a crashed car for $800 and swap it in, in an hour.
Hybrids and EVs are so economically advantageous that it’s astounding that they haven’t been universally accepted at this point. We’ve been running them at work for 15+ years at this point - they really just don’t break.
got_tha_gist@reddit
Replacing the battery on Toyota hybrids is incredibly rare. If it happens at all it’s 10-15 years later.
ratmanmedia@reddit
Honestly depends on the model and how often you drive. It’s not as simple of yes/no.
For example: I work from home. Had a 2020 Fusion Hybrid, maybe drove 8,000mi a year. It got good mileage, but accounting for the maintenance schedule it needed/increased annual registration, it ended up costing more YoY compared to just an ICE vehicle.
Many_Fly_8165@reddit
Have owned 4 hybrids going back to 2006. Still own 3 of them. TCO has been lower across the board. 3 are Toyota (a Prius and 2 RAV4) and a 2014 Ford Fusion. The only reason to buy an ICE is where it’s needed for a specific reason, as in a truck for hauling whatever. Hybrids don’t have starters to replace, are easier on brakes, and don’t require expensive EV-rated tires. To me, hybrids are the optimal solution.
Tough_Conclusion271@reddit
Most manufacturers offer massive warranties on the hybrid components... Like 10+ years. Although saying that you've been majorly influenced by people who have no idea what they're talking about to think it's a regular occurrence lol.
Never heard of one failing on the Toyota corolla hybrids. I personally have one at 80k miles and never had to do anything outside of regular maintenance, hybrid still running at full efficiency and returning 55-60mpg from the 2.0l.
s4ltydog@reddit
Mom and stepfather have owned 2 Prius’ over 300k on each one and neither have had the batteries replaced. It’s not nearly as common as people think it is.
TurboLag23@reddit
I have a 2000 Honda Insight. It was the first hybrid car model ever sold in the US, and mine is a first-year car. It has had its battery replaced once.
In the time since it was sold, TWENTY SIX YEARS have passed. Lithium ion battery price per kWh has gone down by 98%. 9/11 hasn’t even happened when my car was sold new. We’ve had three recessions since my car was sold new.
That’s how old the rumor of “battery. Replacements all the time!” Is.
Aligned-Askew6773@reddit
The average person that buys a new car replaces it within 3-5 years. That is not enough time for the battery life or its replacement to be a worry or even a consideration.
No_Ant_5064@reddit
I did the math on a toyota corolla hybrid vs gas only. This was last year so gas prices were obviously lower, but factoring in their self-reported MPG, the price of gas at the time, and 150k estimate life (warranty on the battery), you save about $3,500 in gas over the life of the vehicle but pay $7,000 more for it upfront.
CoachOpen1977@reddit
Yes. The longevity and cost of the batteries consistently increases and decreases respectively. There are hybrid taxis pushing 200-400k miles on the original battery. Hybrids usually go 100k+ miles before needing a brake job, don’t have belts, and I don’t feel bad about sticking to Toyota’s recommended 10k oil change interval because the engine only runs about half the time that I’m driving. When I bought mine I think the hybrid was around the same price as a similarly equipped gas model, so I didn’t really pay a premium up front. Also in most cases the hybrid is more powerful, accelerates quicker, and drives more smoothly than the gas models, while getting around 1.5-2x the mpg of a gas model. I fill up once every 3-4 weeks versus every 1-2 weeks with my last gas model.
Revolutionary_Age_94@reddit
Why does everyone thi k the batteries need replacing? Like how often to ICE cars need new engines? Where does this mindset come from?
Vegetable-Giraffe-79@reddit
Yeah, they require far less repairs and maintenance than regular cars
pimpbot666@reddit
Specialized repairs? You mean having somebody qualified to work on your car?
Not sure about others, but Toyota hybrids are actually simpler than their pure gas counterparts.
The hybrid battery system replaces the transmission with a simple set of planetary gears, and eliminates all accessory belts. Batteries last like 300k miles, and aren’t that expensive to repair/replace.
Parking_Abalone_1232@reddit
How much do you think a battery costs?
greengo07@reddit
One thing's for sure: battery prices will only go down and life will only improve. There are many exciting new battery inventions just on the horizon.
Sweet_Speech_9054@reddit
The higher the price of gas the more it saves. So you can thank trumb for making hybrids/EVs more economical!
But for real, unless fuel drops below $2/gallon it is typically cheaper to drive an hybrid or EV. Battery technology has made batteries much more reliable. The difference is really in personal finances and driving/charging habits.
With gas, you’re paying smaller amounts in frequent payments. Filling up the tank hurts but replacing a battery hurts more, right? Well that’s because nobody puts money aside for maintenance and repairs. It will cost less if it’s spread over the same time but you need the financial discipline to save small amounts of money over a long period.
You also need a certain amount of discipline in driving and charging habits. Batteries can be somewhat pick how you use them. Using fast chargers and aggressive driving can degrade the battery orders of magnitude faster. Unfortunately this is more of a feature for hybrids and EVs so consumers don’t recognize the importance of conservative charging and driving. And some people are just limited on choices. If you live in an apartment or just don’t live somewhere that you can charge your battery slowly you may need to use fast charging at a public charger.
imissapollo2024@reddit
Depends. I avoided Volvo s60 T8 because the services are super expensive. But theres many hybrids that are more reliable
Individual-Fail4709@reddit
Most hybrids do not need their batteries replaced before the end of life of the car. They are going much longer that even the OEMs expected.
Dredgeon@reddit
One of the things no one thinks about with those big lithium batteries is that they can be reconditioned just like lead acid and eventually we almost won't have to mine lithium at all
Calendar-Careless@reddit
No. Price replacing the battery. IMO Roi is too long. Battery wont last usually.
Albert14Pounds@reddit
The studies I've seen on this all seem to reach the same conclusion. That
https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/id/eprint/123991/3/Total%20Cost%20of%20Ownership%20and%20Market%20Share_2017_TC_Accepted.pdf
KostyaFedot@reddit
Toyota gives warranty of 10 years. And not just on EV part. IN EU.
I'm not considering any other hybrids.
Maybe Fiat 500 :) as second car in family, but it is fake hybrid.
Substantial_Team6751@reddit
It just depends. A hybrid option used to cost like an extra $5k and any payoff would take like ten years. If you live in a state where gas is cheap, it can take longer.
These days, some hybrids are only a few thousand more and the cost of fuel is high because of Trump's war with Iran.
It also depends on your driving pattern. In constant stop and go urban city driving, the hybrid gets way better mpg. In pure freeway driving, the hybrid benefit disappears.
You have to do the math for your own circumstances.
BigWillyJohnson69420@reddit
yes
jumbo_rawdog@reddit
Simply put, hybrids save money overall if you drive a lot.
No_Cut4338@reddit
2008 Prius, 220K - original battery.
Best_Market4204@reddit
Google - gas vs hybrid calculator
At $3.50 gas
$2000 difference between gas/hybrid model
25,000 miles per year - warranty till 100k
mandatoryclutchpedal@reddit
Yes. Immediate cost savings in fuel. Costs savings in maintenance. Price out brakes and rotors on a non hybrid that exists in the same segment and price bracket as hybrid. Look up average replacement interval. Now look up a hybrids.
As for batteries, compare the real world replacement rate with the average rate for transmission replacement/major service costs on non hybrids.(visit old school forums or reddit and ask owners....do not use AI or random "sites"). When they do fail, look at the market for replacement. Dealer vs 3rd party/aftermarket.
The answer to your question is going to be yes over the long term.
Smooth_Discussion367@reddit
Just check CoPart or other wholesalers, EV can "totaled" for dirt cheap if the cost of a new battery pack (installer) is more than the wholesale cost of the vehicle
Smooth_Discussion367@reddit
Chris fix
TurkishSwag@reddit
Depends heavily on make and model. The good hybrids, yes. The bad ones, no.
slimBoost@reddit
Depends on the hybrid. Prius? Yes. Cayenne e-hybrid? Hell no.
chef-throwawat4325@reddit
hybrids have lower cost of ownership than purely internal combustion engine cars. The question about money saving is purely how much more they initially cost.
a subaru cross trek starts at 27k and the hybrid at 34k. 33/26mpg vs 36/36 mpg. If we assume roughly equal driving, 29mpg reg vs 36 mpg hybrid 3,448.28 gallons used vs 2,777.78 for 100k miles. a difference of 670.5 gallons. If we assume an average fuel cost of $4/gal which would be high for where i live, that's $2,682 saved in fuel costs per 100k miles. When you take into account that most people don't pay for a car in cash and take out a load, they are paying more than $7k extra. And then there is the interest you would have earned on that 7k+ if it was in the bank or stock market instead of dumped in your car, it would take over 300k miles driven to earn back the initial price increase on fuel savings.
I want to be responsible and my next car be a hybrid, but right now it doesn't seem economical. Although i honestly haven't compared used car prices, and consumer's lack of confidence in battery life might help make it justifiable in the used car market.
NewMexicoJoe@reddit
Short answer, yes. they’re more reliable and need less maintenance than their gas counterparts.
TSLAog@reddit
As a mechanic of 22 years, hybrids are super reliable, the “transmission” (power split device) is nearly indestructible. The small issues that do arrive are usually very common and well known in the industry.
Yes. Owning hybrid will 100% save you fuel AND more than likely be more reliable than a gas-only vehicle.
firelephant@reddit
What battery replacement?
first_person_looter@reddit
EV batteries rarely need replacement after a set time. Most modern EV batteries are designed to last 10–20 years or 100,000–300,000+ miles, far exceeding the typical 8-year/100,000-mile warranty. Instead of failing completely, they slowly lose capacity over time (typically ~2% per year), meaning you can still drive, just with a slightly reduced range.
Data shows that premature battery failure is rare, and only about 0.3% of 2022-or-newer EVs have needed a replacement outside of recalls.
After 8-10 years, many batteries still retain over 80-90% of their original capacity.
Extreme heat, excessive DC fast charging, and regularly keeping the battery at 100% (or 0%) can accelerate degradation.
While early-generation EVs (before 2016) had higher replacement rates, modern battery management systems and battery chemistry have improved longevity dramatically.
https://coltura.org/electric-car-battery-life/#:~:text=Since%20EVs%20are%20still%20relatively,day%2Dto%2Dday%20use.
choppysmash@reddit
Plus if the battery is going to fail due to a manufacturing defect, that failure is likely to happen during the pretty generous warranty period.
I’m still driving my 2013 Leaf on the original battery and can still get 70 miles on a charge in good weather. It’s an outlier for early Leafs but mine doesn’t have CHAdeMO and the previous owners seem to have typically charged it to 80% regularly.
needle1@reddit
If you’re ditching a full ICE don’t bother on a hybrid; go BEV
choppysmash@reddit
*If you have access to charging at home/work or cheap and convenient DCFC.
MaleficentExtent1777@reddit
I have a BMW 530e with 120k miles. It's a PHEV that gets plugged in daily. Still going strong. Had it's first fill up yesterday since the war started.
JONOV@reddit
Batteries last 200K plus at the low end. There isn’t much as far as specialized repairs. Brakes last longer. Power steering is an electric motor as opposed to a hydraulic, which is more reliable. The eCVT Toyota uses in their hybrids is famously reliable. They are cheaper in the long term.
reidft@reddit
Battery replacements aren't as common as you're lead to believe, you've been fed propaganda. My 12 year old Volt still got factory rated EV range
trickedx5@reddit
I didnt think hybrids changed their battery
Bryanmsi89@reddit
With many miles on the car, yes. Most hybrids have been quite reliable and batteries last a very long time. The batteries are not as stressed as in a pure EV, typically, and it generally doesn’t matter if they lose some capacity. At the same time, the ICE part of the system also has less wear overall.
CommunityNo3399@reddit
It's important to note here that ICE cars never need repairs. Ever.
ilikestuff1231234@reddit
328k on my Tesla Stock battery
scrappybasket@reddit
When I was at Toyota I never saw a Prius that needed a replacement hybrid battery. And I saw 100+ that were over 200k miles
zevtech@reddit
I have not had to do anything to my Honda insight besides tires and oil change and I’m at 66k miles. It takes 20-25 bucks to go 400+ miles vs my Escalade takes 80-100 bucks to do the same distance. It also cost 1/4th the price to buy it. So yes I would say it saves me money having it.
Major_Enthusiasm1099@reddit
Depends on the hybrid. In those hybrids that get like that 40-50+ mpg I’d say yeah. Another thing is that you’ll hardly ever have to replace brake pads on a hybrid because the regen braking does a lot of the braking for you, which reduces the wear and tear on the brakes drastically, so thats less brake replacements which means you save.
Diligent-Body-5062@reddit
If you drive enough, and more if it is stop and go traffic. If you drive very little, then no
Nojopar@reddit
I'll never find the study because I want to say I read it pre-pandemic, but someone did the math. The short answer is that yes, most hybrids do save money long-term. Not all though because some systems are hybrid in name only (basically not particularly good at being a hybrid) or really expensive for what they offer.
gpowerf@reddit
The rest of the car will be junk before the battery becomes an issue. So generally yes unless you want to treat it like a classic and keep of for decades upon decades.
brabson1@reddit
Most people junk the car before battery replacement. The batteries are outlasting other big ticket repair items you have on normal ice cars
Golgarivet@reddit
My 2011 Yukon hybrid has 314,000 miles. I put on about 40,000 of those. It supposedly had a battery replacement before I bought it. It's got no troubles. It uses the same cells as a Prius so I could repair the battery pack for pretty cheap if it ever does get issues. From my experience so far, my guess is that a large portion of the "you need to replace the battery pack" scenarios are actually just because the mechanics are inexperienced working on hybrids.
Figure a lot of these have NiMH batteries. I started buying NiMH rechargeable AAs and AAAs about ten years ago. I've got more than 200 now, as I just buy more whenever I get some new device/kids toy. (It's hard to think I have that many floating around my house). I've thrown away maybe one or two. Failure rate of up to 1%? And these are the cheap Amazon ones. I would guess that oems would be even more robust.
Anyway, I love my hybrid! It's got more torque than the regular ic version. And I get about 20% improved fuel economy.
Effective_Charity268@reddit
Not all hybrids are the same battery-wise. A Corolla or camry hybrid, and the ford Maverick, have hybrid batteries that are about the same size as the 12v battery and cost $500. They come with a 100k mile hybrid battery warranty, so after that there is a risk of a $500 repair. So yes, absolutely worth it.
IronClaw84@reddit
Yes. The answer is yes.
phasttZ@reddit
I think youre missing some other key facts. Hybrids make otherwise slow 4 cylinders quick with extra torque around town. Also they are relatively quiet due to the fact that the engine isnt working as hard. SUVs get almost 40mpg and cars get almost 50mpg. Its just a nice package for a daily driver.
Slow_Description_773@reddit
Depends on which hybrid. My 2006 Toyota Prius totally, I had to replace the battery after 10 years and bought an used one that worked perfectly. My 2025 Subaru Crosstrek hybrid not so much,it's still a gas guzzlere and I'm sure once the hybrid battery will die it will be hard to find one. But I won't get to that point, I hate that fucking car and I'm looking forward to either go fully EV or Toyota again.
ThePurch@reddit
Sad to hear Crosstreks are still fucking turds. Our 2015 went through 3 CVTs and a pair of headgaskets by 150k km.
Slow_Description_773@reddit
Mine’s only has 36k kms and makes all sort of weird clunking and claking sound nobody has been anle to fix yet. And while Subaru says oil and filters every 15k kms the engine is begging for new oil at 11k kms. Fuck this car and fuck Subaru.
Fiss@reddit
It’s always the people that haven’t owned a hybrid anything that assume you will have to replace the battery and that it will cost $5k because you have to go to the dealer. The battery in hybrid or EV will likely outlast the car. If it does fail what fails is a cell inside the pack. In a lot of hybrid packs you can just replace that group of cells out. You can buy the part on eBay and just swap it out with the bad cell pack. There are plenty of companies that will go out and drive to you and swap it out for a pretty reasonable repair cost. You never hear EV owners talking about how much an engine replacement is going to cost an ICE vehicle at 150k as if it’s a sure thing it will need to be replaced.
YeahIGotNuthin@reddit
World full of cities filled with Prius taxicabs says hybrid cars are cheaper overall, especially in cities where the fuel economy advantage is more pronounced.
The difference between 39 mpg civic and 47 mpg civic hybrid on the highways of Texas are going to be noticeable, but the real payoff is for people who commute in stop and go traffic where the normal civic does 31 mpg and the hybrid does FIFTY.
Replacement batteries for a 10+ year old civic hybrid or Prius are about $1500 to $2500. I don’t know how often you need to do that on a 200,000 mile hybrid, because it’s not like the car quits working altogether when the hybrid battery starts to get worse, it’s just that it has less help from the electric motor part of things, so maybe it gets worse fuel economy mostly in city driving.
Dierks_Ford@reddit
Narrative driven questions. 😂😂😂😂😂
user_9780@reddit
No, because modern hybrids burn more fuel than any older gasoline engines with similar displacement.
Personal_Chicken_598@reddit
That’s depends entirely on how you use them nd what kind they are
statmelt@reddit
For Toyota hybrids, yes, definitely
Physical-Result7378@reddit
They never did, they never will. They are the combination of all the worst features
AwarenessGreat282@reddit
lol...oh hell yes. Since the batteries usually outlast the ICE component of the car, it's a win.
dejaentendu82@reddit
I paid $1k for a non-hybrid Saturn that gets 40 mpg. Why bother with hybrids?
InternationalPut4093@reddit
Pretty much all automakers provide life time battery warranty. The engine doesnt work as hard and you dont idle. Hybrid nearly doubles in efficiency, even more if you drive in cities. It's also much cleaner. Hybrid is the way. Im on my first Hybrid and I love it.
myshon@reddit
They do save a lot of money. Especially if you mostly drive in a city. Unless you're buying a 20 year old hybrid you really don't need to worry about the battery replacement.
Rough_Cancel7265@reddit
The question is too vague to answer. Save money compared to what? A non hybrid model of the same car? Under what driving conditions?
Brilliant-Onion2129@reddit
Hybrids aren’t to save you money. They are built to save the planet!
g2gfmx@reddit
I would say so, on maintenance and fuel cost. Toyota hybrids are very very reliable requiring minimal repairs.
PckMan@reddit
Depends how much you use them. Battery replacements are super expensive but not that common, at least when buying hybrids from Toyota, Honda, or companies that have been doing them for a long while.