i wake up today and read this.

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SoftwareSource@reddit

Bro Turkey is not Iran, Turkey can fuck, look at their military numbers.

Sure, the US/Israel alliance would win, but a LOT of Americans would die in that conflict, it would be politically unpalletable.

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Ineverything@reddit

Agree but Iran is a defence monster. Their mountains alone fuck the invaiders.

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SoftwareSource@reddit

I did not try to imply iran is easy to invade, but rather that Turkey is much more capable in a conventional sense.

Most people dob’t realize how powerfull their military is, it’s a beast.

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Still defending Turkey is alot harder than Iran I mean if they were againist Turkey instead Iran. I doubt we could defend this long. And on top of that Iran has something noone has "Decentralised goverment" and all diffrent groups of Iran are willing the support war. Most wars depends to inner support than millitary might of the country. This is the biggest reason why I think US will lose not because military strengh but rather because of corruption in army and unwillingness of support for war from people.

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arisaurusrex@reddit

The war on Iran is going like Russias „3 day march to Kiev“ and I think Turkey is even on another ballpark compared to Iran.

There are some really strange things happening with the western elite and it shows more and more, that western leadership is compromised to their necks, which the Israelis are happy using that to their benefit.

One can hope, that the next generation will be more resilient and not let themselves grab by their balls by some Epstein like blackmailers.

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Zestyclose_Court5946@reddit

Not one Russian official ever made the claim 3 days to take Kiev.

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Content-Ad-9556@reddit

I think that this comparison is quite exaggerated. Although US did take some damage, damage done to Iran infrastructure is enormous. Also, in comparison to the US, Russia suffered/suffers significant losses, both economical and human.

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Any_Worldliness7991@reddit

I mean one of them is a ground invasion while the other one is just bombing them. If USA put boots on the ground they will probably suffer alot. Maybe that as much as russia but alot.

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Wind-Kwality@reddit

Probably more than Russia. Iranians even if they hate the government, they love their land and country, and they are the ones invaded, which changes a lot.

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kaiser_151@reddit

The US however with it's actions has alienated many of it's allies which is never a wise move to make. Russia didn't lose any allies as a result. How significant or important Russian loses are we can only know in the future.

The biggest loss for Russia is that they lost their boogeyman status if that makes sense. For years there was this belief that Russia had a very capable military. This illusion has been shattered now something which is dangerous in itself because Russia is never as strong as it looks but also never as weak as it looks (quote attributed to Churchill).

As for the damage Iran has sustained to it's infrastructure that can always be repaired with time. The US however, very much like Russia in Ukraine, has failed it's goal which was regime change. Just because they went in and dropped a few bombs and killed a leader that's not enough to change a regime that's been around for half a century. In fact they may have made the regime stronger as before the US invasion there were plenty of protests against the regime. What are the chances people will now protest in favour of a change in government that would benefit the US which is currently bombing their country?

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EmreTaptukYunus@reddit

In fact they may have made the regime stronger as before the US invasion there were plenty of protests against the regime.

I agree with you.

The regime was already sending a relatively moderate message to the West by electing Pezeshkian. Even though it violently suppressed protests, it had also been somewhat more flexible regarding the mandatory headscarf rules imposed on women. Probably more than half of its population is not radical religious conservatives like those within the ruling establishment. They likely understand that they cannot withstand such a political tide for very long.

However, this war may have reversed that trend. Moreover, their foolish strategy bears much of the responsibility. In Iran, regime supporters generally back the system, while in urban areas people mostly demand a more secular lifestyle. Yet the U.S. and Israel went and bombed the cities of people who are actually opposed to the regime. Now they seem to expect these anti-regime citizens to rise up for the U.S. and Israel and overthrow the government. They have left those people with no reason to do so.

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reallycooldude456@reddit (OP)

russia did not however use airforce in a high capacity such as us and idf. Otherwise the war in ukraine would look different.

Russia blew out some infrastructure, but not nonstop airforce attack. it’s different wars while us use airforce russia use manpower

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Contrary_Kind@reddit

I mean, Google is literally free:

"At the start of the 2022 Ukraine invasion, the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) launched extensive missile strikes and hundreds of daily sorties targeting air defenses and military infrastructure. Despite initial expectations of rapid air superiority, Russia failed to suppress Ukrainian air defenses and, by March, was forced to avoid deep, high-altitude penetration, limiting effectiveness"

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Content-Ad-9556@reddit

Russia uses airforce in high capacity. Only difference is that they use it from their own territory. If they used it like IDF and the US, their whole aircraft in couple of weeks would end shut down.

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unk0wn8@reddit

What are you talking about? Russia is not using airforce because they cannot, not out of the goodness of their hearts.

In order to use airforce you need to be sure, or fairly sure, that the enemy cannot shoot your plane down, it's called air supremacy. Russia never established (or quite frankly, wasn't even close to establishing) air supremacy in Ukraine.

US had air supremacy in Iran basically from the very beginning. Iran cannot shoot it down. The tactics Iran is using is closer to terrorism than to actual warfare. So you can either bomb the country into submission (extreme number of casualties, the more stupid / brainwashed / religiously driven the population, the higher number of casualties there would be) or in some cases better not even start.

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Extension_Cup_3368@reddit

You're clearly misinformed about what Russia did in Ukraine.

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the_sneaky_one123@reddit

Neither had to take any damage at all

The war on Iran is going like Russias „3 day march to Kiev“ and I think Turkey is even on another ballpark compared to Iran.

Tbf, not really, once Trump realized his war was an utter catastrophe, he had the courage to backdown, instead of escalating and devolving into a sunk cost fallacy logic, a la Putin.

Wich, credit where credit is due, never would I have thought, that his inflatuated ego would allow him to do that.

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Putrid_Anybody_2947@reddit

Dog people told him day 1 this was bad idea and he has gotten over a thousand americans killed or wounded. Destroyed the american hegomonic power elevated iran to more than just a regional power all while destroying the american economy to distract from his kid fucking.

Serious question dog what does boot polish taste like

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Any_Mine_6368@reddit

Turkey is on another ballpark? They get absolutely trampled worse than Venezuela.

Its military economy is based on the rest of the businesses actually being able to operate. Inflation hit 200% while the rest of the world was booming financially. Everything, EVERYTHING they design is based on western components and parts.

Iran has been fighting wars for a century and has been embargoed for fifty years. They're used to this. Turkey and its citizens are more European than they are middle easterners.

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bagdf@reddit

I think it's pretty obvious israel has turkey next on the list. Whether it's gonna be in 5 years or 15 is anybodys guess. They might have to delay a bit after the shitshow they got in iran. And I'm not even sure they need to leave nato for attacking turkey either. No country in europe is going to war to defend turkey lol.

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thatMrGecko@reddit

No country in europe is going to war to defend turkey lol

If you meant Cyprus with your sentence, they made “European” later due to its cultural heritage

Cyprus has long had European culture thousands of years before Turkic tribes even thought of migrating west.

Cherry picking attitude to select who is European when is just childish, beyond being racist.

The fucking irony of this statement. Islands are considered to be in the continent that they are closest to continental landmass. So if Turkey is "european" by default then Cyprus needs to be as well. Lol..

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BigOpenWorld@reddit

Europe as the concept in your mind didn’t exist thousands of years ago. At that day and age, only donkeys could be considered European.

cyprus is not europe tho

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

"Then you can sit it out"

well, obviously.

we didn't even send soldiers to Afghanistan, Iraq, & Yugoslavia, u think we're going to what, go to war w/ one of our most important allies over Turkey? lmao.

Interesting_Key9946@reddit

There is no north Cyprus. There is only country joined in EU and the northern part is occupied. Military junta of the 70s doesn't represent the Greeks today. Greece is also a guarantor for Cyprus as it always was. Go cope elsewhere Turk.

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Interesting_Key9946@reddit

No occupation 🤡 Let's not start talking about ethnical cleansing in 2026 please. Turkey has ousted the rum/greek speaking minonity in Imbros Tenedos and Constantinople. Northern pseudostate is almost not recognised by anyone.

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Mean_Intention_3895@reddit

You’re like a broken record paraphrasing the same 3 responses about turkey give us a fucking break malaka

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thatMrGecko@reddit

whether we like it or not (I don't), turkey is the plug that keeps the shit from flowing into europe. if they're smart, they'll show up.

if they wanna keep licking israel's butt however, they won't. though that's not gonna make much of a difference seeing as europe is barely armed to scratch it's butt.

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SoftwareSource@reddit

US eats Israel's ass, Europe does not anymore.

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DassakliPeynir@reddit

Yeah and europeans are occupying middle east with israel.

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SoftwareSource@reddit

Not gonna lie, in 2026, i would rather Europe be on your side in that hypothetical.

Plus, your army is no lightweight, if we decide to support you, i doubt they would even attack.

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bagdf@reddit

The key point being "in 2026". This war won't start tomorrow, there will be a lot of time to lay ground work. A lot of media narrative will be pushed beforehand. Plus, I'm assuming it would likely start in the cyprus front, where europeans will be forced to side with israel. The public opinion will be much different when the stage is ready for this to go down.

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Silly_Mustache@reddit

I think people vastly underestimate the power of media to shape opinions and like to pretend they're "free thinkers" and that they're immune to propaganda, but just by repeating 4-5 phrases over and over again the media forces people to debate about a subject.

The media doesn't tell you what to believe or what to support, it tells you what to talk about, thus controlling your political conversations, and by controlling the conversation it can slightly influence you towards a direction where you're either passive about something, or bombarded with so many "talking points" that you essentially become confused about the topic itself.

If they want to push people towards an anti-turkish stance, all they have to do is start throwing buzzwords like "erdogan regime" "failing democracy" "achilles heel of european security" and people will start asking questions and doing some research (primarily online these days), which will inevitably lead to people realizing that Erdogan is a piece of shit cause they will see scandals & turkish people online talking shit about him, and that he's rigging elections, and thus people will become neutral cause "well I don't support invading turkey, but Erdogan is a dictator..." and this is how you manufacture consent to invade another country.

Tried recipe over and over again, with Iraq (Saddam was a USA ally before the Gulf war and was presented very positively in US media before 1980, can you imagine that?), Syria, Libya, Iran etc.

If you're a muslim nation you're not safe from USA using you as a scapegoat for war.

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EmreTaptukYunus@reddit

I think people vastly underestimate the power of media to shape opinions and like to pretend they're "free thinkers" and that they're immune to propaganda,

I completely agree with this.

In the early period of Erdoğan’s rule, he was the golden child of both Europe and the United States. When he had just founded his party and had not even come to power yet, he was reportedly protected by the CIA during his trips to Washington.

Immediately after coming to power, rumors of Turkey becoming a full member of the EU became very strong. Turkey won Eurovision (and no one should tell me it is not a political contest). The following contest held in Istanbul was also won by Ruslana, who was an important figure in the Orange Revolution. Incidentally, I was also a fan of her in that contest.

During this period, the CIA was presenting Erdoğan as a model across the Middle East during the preparation phase of the Arab Spring, saying: “Look, you can be both Muslim and democratic.”

While all this was happening, Erdoğan, in cooperation with certain religious sects, was conducting fabricated trials, using fake documents and witnesses to purge Kemalists from the military and bureaucracy. Even then, like today, he was not a good person, but the story told to European audiences was that he was a “liberal and democratic golden boy.”

Silly_Mustache@reddit

While I agree on some level, I have to say that the dollar's hegemony (petrodollar) rests upon control of the gulf states, and after this war, many gulf states have started re-examining that relationship. If Yuan replaces the petrodollar even to some extend (not fully), they won't be able to just print money and make the entire world absorb the inflation. In fact they already can't do that cause most states are selling US bonds currently, which increases their borrowing costs.

Things are not going well for USA, let us have that in mind.

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Ultramarinus@reddit

I wish that would be true but they don’t really have any other sponsor to switch to. Russian power projection is gone and China will stay dormant at least till they’re done securing the first island chain in the Pacific. I’m fairly certain that if Trump keeled away tomorrow and Vance replaced him, everyone would sigh and back to business with NATO and petrodollar. Everyone is too deep inside their comfort zones with the ‘rules-based international order’ a la American vassalage to give it up. It only took Trump years of active work including wars to even question it. Next president will tone it down and I can already see the magazines with “America is back”.

Didn’t we get that exact same cover when Biden came?

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Novel-Wait328@reddit

forced to side with israel?are u still living in 1950s?eu doesent like what israel is doing,its pretty evident at this point

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Kreol1q1q@reddit

Well, were Turkey not busy threatening to invade Greece every other year, might find itself with more allies in Europe….

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Temporary_County1838@reddit

Show any threat please.

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SE_prof@reddit

You have already taken my father's house once. I'd say that's enough

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YamReasonable6974@reddit

violations

Violations of what?

Making up rules telling countries they are breaking them doesn't equal violations. Not how international laws work.

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SE_prof@reddit

The FIR of Athens.

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Dunkelhaft@reddit

Really iq low ha🤣 this is being back and forth since 50 years

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Volaer@reddit

https://youtube.com/shorts/3gYmsC11NAo?is=xOJ8IOJLhwLo-e6N

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Everyone in Turkey knows they have no allies in the West lmao. West was very happy when Coup was happenning and they even said "This is the last chance of Turkish people". Turkey doesn't expect any "help" from their "allies" who wouldn't even gave them the fighter jets they paid for

General rule of thumb is actually west will always make sure the propaganda they feed their people will make them hate those they want them to hate and make people not see what they don't want to see. Most people didn't even know about the innocent people dying everyday in paletine until Hamas happened.

And from the way you talk, you obviously know the "two side of the story" while being blinded by the propaganda. There is no Kurd who support PKK and don't want Kurdistan to happen in the exchange of lives of people in that region. And the group supported by the US for over 20 years to mess with other countries in the middle east would obviously look like "The Freedom Fighters" to people who were dogs of US and hated Turkey on it's own

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I never said anything about the Armenian genocide as no matter the reasons, it was literally a genocide. "Greeks living in the coast" you are talking about was a forced deportation that was used by both Greece and Turkey which both countries commited atrocities. Let me guess, "the sweet greeks couldn't have possibly done something like that!" Are you going to say something like that as well lmao

But the very fact you don't know about that and only mentioned the fact that "Turks killed greeks" shows that your head is filled with propaganda lmao.

And I literally said I personally talked with my own people to get my answers while you are getting yours from the media your country lets you see. And the fact that people that live here hate PKK and your country saying "Kurds in Turkey belive in PKK" or whatever is quite literally the "definition" of propaganda lmao.

But sure, West would never EVER do something like propaganda lmao

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thatMrGecko@reddit

tell me about it

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CressCheap@reddit

When there’s a big fat neighbor threatening you, you take any assistance you can get

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thatMrGecko@reddit

you don't have to tell me, we have a dozen fat neighbors threatening us

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VisibleReport5008@reddit

The EU itself is cant act together though. Not talking about ukraine war where there is a common enemy, but at the mediterranean itself turkey and italy nice realarionships over arms trade and civil war in libya, where france uses greece to put pressure on turkey for example since their defeat in libya.

Not saying that italy would fight for turkey, but in terms of war with greece turkey has leverage and EU would try to stop the war instead of joining.

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SoftwareSource@reddit

Things are changing, we have to get more centralized.

You don't really need European boots on the ground, you have a huge army, all you need is France or UK stationing nukes within range to deter attackers.

We could do that if the US keeps being crazy.

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VisibleReport5008@reddit

I agree. But that would mean compromise and smailler pieces from whatever pie there is. No one seems to be ready for that

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

every other year

We are talking about 1 statement. From like 5 years ago. Granted it was far from alright and I still disagree with it, but both sides were provoking each other. That doesnt warrant a "Turkey is threatening to invade Greece every other year". There is 0% chance a war will break out.

Each country must assist, but they decide how. This could include military force, but also logistical, financial, or political support.

Issue is still that Turkey is a member på NATO. A PROPER attack on Turkey will very likely make then invoke article 5.

And if no NATO country wants to help, that will literally make NATO crumble from within, and show everyone how useless it is.

On top of that, there are a LOT of Turkish people who live in the EU. I don't think you understand how much pressure there would be on politicians if they refuse to do what their country is obligated to do. People will very quickly vote for someone who WILL help Turkey

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chickensoldier_bftd@reddit

Turkey invokes article five against pissrael

US leaves nato to support israel

Strongly worded letters from the rest of nato and a total of five (5) bullets sent with a loan (%500 interest)

UN "closely observing"

Forgotten in the next week after usa probably attacks africa or smth

Turkish diaspora protests

Parties like afd gets a billion votes, reincarnates hitler in the next fiscal quarter

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Thialaz@reddit

Well, for one. Putins wet dream comes to fruition. NATO weakens significantly, and it will likely ruin the relationship between the EU countries and US even further.

The rest of NATO will still have to help. Because if they chose not to as well, then it shatters the entirety and purpose of NATO.
Lots of Turkish people will still protest and it will have repercussions in the EU.

it's going to be a huge shitshow.

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Admarn@reddit

“I don’t think you understand how much pressure there would be”

USA already looks quite bad in front of NATO/UN/Europe with what they did in Iran, so unlikely to do something that stupid. Why accept Turkey in NATO if it's a dictatorship? Also Turkey has 520 parliament members, so it still shares democratic values.

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

No country in europe is going to war to defend turkey lol.

Pretty sure plenty would offer support one way or the other. Foremost Spain. They have some balls left, unlike other cucked euro nations.

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bagdf@reddit

They will at best publish a strongly worded statement.

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

The ones that are cucked? Yes. Spain? No.

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BadBasik@reddit

Oh cmon, when has Spain last used anything but strongly worded letters? They wouldn't join Germany in WW2, even though they supported it...

Things might be changing though, kicking out the US and pledging 1 billion dollars of support to Ukraine a month ago might be showing a shift, but I will believe it when I see it.

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TrygerWTF@reddit

No way you are comparing current Spain to the Spain of almost a century ago, which had just gone through a civil war. "I will believe it when I see" in the context of what could become a WW3 is a cracy comment

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BadBasik@reddit

Spain a century ago was the same all the way to 1975, so...

As for WW3, I am totally unsure who would be on what side this time, I can't imagine Germany fighting Israel because of Turkey, they somehow always end up on the reicht side of history🤦

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

Oh cmon, when has Spain last used anything but strongly worded letters?

When was the last time NATO had to defend one of its member state?

Also:

Zestyclose-Carry-171@reddit

Probably not war no But sanction, embargo, diplomatic and economic support of Turkey is very possible

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bagdf@reddit

If europe sanctions or embargos anyone it will be turkey lol

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soxiwah641@reddit

No country in Europe is going to war to defend Turkey.

Erdogan is the biggest Trump ass kisser. I don‘t see him clashing with Israel anytime soon. Before every election he will do Anti-Israel propaganda to please the islamist crowd. Thats it.

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K-Hunter-@reddit

Erdoğan makes more than actionless statements. He keeps Israel as a trade partner.

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Super_Sherbet_268@reddit

he also allows Azerbaijan to export oil and gas to Israel by pipeline that goes through turkeye to ceyhan port in turkeye to israel. If he had even threatened to stop that oil that feeds the israeli economy, warships and war machine that gaza genocide and wars would have ended long ago.

Azerbaijan is a major energy supplier to Israel, providing approximately 40% to over 60% of its crude oil needs. Most of this oil is transported via the Baku–Tbilisi–Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline to Turkey’s Ceyhan port before being shipped to Israel, making it a critical, strategic energy partner.

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StPauliPirate@reddit

They are. But not in a strong ideological way. If the chips are down, they won‘t give a fuck about arabs.

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Super_Sherbet_268@reddit

yeah

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Ras-Al-Dyn@reddit

as if you need to be an 'islamist' to do anti-apartheid regime 'propaganda'

you are one dumb ass mfer. Hope the average turk use his brain more than that

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StPauliPirate@reddit

Oh shut up. We all know Islamists want to recapture Jerusalem. Palestinians are just a tool for them. Thats why they are against Israel and so obsessed with the whole conflict. Not one of them gives a single fuck about turkic people opressed by China or any other region

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dunhere8@reddit

Haha bro thinks there is kemalist party in Turkey lol

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Razor_EDG@reddit

which kemalists? ones that are saying çingens needs to have seat at the parliament

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NZTamoDalekoCG@reddit

We are nearing a disaster I mean humans are always nearing a disaster except now we have nukes and God knows what other nightmares we can dream up with modern technology.

I think the word is Israel has gone mental and they are gonna drag the US down with it, as their politicians are bought by Jewish billionaires and there is a lot of them in the US.

War is just muder I dont care how people package it and murder needs to be illegal.

We are still barbarians with but now with modern technology.

We talk about all sorts of social issues, humanity has made slavery illegal. But somehow just somehow people still think war is still an acceptable human activity.

Source of Euphrates starts from Southeast Anatolia, "Greater Israel" includes southern parts of Turkey too

That's basically the lovechild of Turkey and Israel

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

I dont think this is an elaborate plan by the entire US administrative/political elite. However, I do believe that there are a lot of these clowns sitting in important positions. Menendez is the biggest example of it. The man is born either with a hate boner for Turkey or he is very deep in Zionist pockets.

vanity-flair83@reddit

I commented under a similar response...we're going to war w Turkey now? ( wouldn't surprise me as the executive just does what it wants and congress is useless)...but seriously I haven't heard this until now..whats the deal?

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

Iran actually put up a good fight and strong armed the US into a deal.

Entirely and only because Hormuz just happens to be very vital for the world economy. And eitherway the iranian military and leadership got obliterated. Even when we can agree that this is a purric victory for Iran, it was far from a "good fight".

Same for Iraq.

Mfer they got occupied.

Turkey won't be able to do shit.

Since the formation of the republic, Turkey yet has to lose a single armed conflict they entered.

They interfiered in Syria -> victory.

They interfiered in Armenia -> victory.

They interfiered in Libya -> victory.

Russia wanted to block grain shipping from Ukraine, Turkey said no. -> victory for all of us.

The US backed bijis wanted to carve a state -> Turkey said no and now they play good boy for the syrian army.

The PKK wanted to use Iraq as a retreat -> Turkey said no and they are getting blasted in their home turf.

Turkey is after the US the most experienced NATO army. Now pair this with a newly indigenous military production and no: you couldnt be more wrong.

Second week of the war they'll get a moral win by electing a democratic nominee and call it a day.

There is one thing you can always unite the turkish people and that is threatening the turkish souvernty. Buddy your conservative islamo-fasist uncle from Butt-Crack-No-Where will stand side by side with your über-kemalists born and grown up in Anitkabir just to kick some anti-turkish asses. You are so fucking wrong with this.

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Whole_Obligation_776@reddit

You mean Bob Menendez?!? He got sentenced to prison for corruption and bribery. He got found with multiple gold bars in his home with no known sources at the time. He is cooked, you can forget him.

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

I am not keeping up with US politics. Could be him. I just remember Menendez as a name with various anti-turkish US-stances.

He got found with multiple gold bars in his home with no known sources at the time.

It's a stupid idea, there's nothing stopping you to attack a country in NATO when yourself is also in NATO. That's why Greece is arming to the teeth because they are afraid that Greece(in NATO) can be attacked by Turkey(in NATO) and they even had fight when together in NATO.

If you quit NATO and attack NATO country, you are not in advantage but in disadvantage because then the rest of the NATO has obligation to help the fellow country.

in other words if:

a) USA in NATO attack Turkey, they will fight only Turkey

b) USA out of NATO attack Turkey, they will fight NATO

Even if you don't believe that France, Italy, Spain etc. will fight for Turkey against USA, it still doesn't provide any advantage.

on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe

no gap

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OldYogurt7161@reddit

“On territories of any of the parties in Europe” geographically islands are on Asian part just a few kilometers away from mainland of Turkey.

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the_lonely_creeper@reddit

Generally considered European.

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OldYogurt7161@reddit

According to what? Maybe culture in this case continents are so much changeable like living cells. According to geography they are Asian rather than European because they are much closer to Asia. We both can find tones of videos, resources to defend our own arguments.

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the_lonely_creeper@reddit

According to convention.

Anyways, in no world is this entire argument useful. NATO covers the whole of Greece, no exceptions.

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OldYogurt7161@reddit

It didn't, so that this agreement is totally important and shows how specifing important in agreements.

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defnotachicken@reddit

I don't know what you are taking about. During the Kardak Crisis your helicopter crashed, it wasn't us. It is confirmed by both Greek and Turkish governments. But at the same year, in October you shot down one of our jets and we lost one pilot. So tell me again, which NATO nation killed another NATO nations soldier in 1996?

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Volaer@reddit

I don't know what you are taking about. During the Kardak Crisis your helicopter crashed, it wasn't us. It is confirmed by both Greek and Turkish governments.

I always thought the governments claimed this because the truth would have resulted in a full hot war which they sought to avoid. Il

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defnotachicken@reddit

Same year couple of months later you shot down our plane resulting a pilots death and Turkey confirmed it was done by the Greek side so, no. I don't think you are right.

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Volaer@reddit

I checked on the english wikipedia and it says:

Around 3 hours later, a Hellenic Navy Bell 212, took off from the Greek frigate Navarino for reconnaissance. The Greek SEALs confirmed the presence of Turkish forces and were ordered to return to the ship where during its return the helicopter crashed over the islets (some speculating due to Turkish fire), but this was concealed by both states to prevent further escalation, although three Greek officers on the helicopter were killed: Christodoulos Karathanasis, Panagiotis Vlahakos, and Ektoras Gialopsos.

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defnotachicken@reddit

Wikipedia is not a reliable source and even there it says it is speculation. Who told the wiki editors that both of the states kept it concealed?

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Volaer@reddit

Whatever the truth was, let’s try to build peaceful relations in the future, right?

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SnooLobsters1304@reddit

I think it is terribly hard to establish peaceful relations with your neigbours who claim right on the land you live for almost 1000 years now.

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Volaer@reddit

Which lands do Greeks claim that Turks lived on since the 11th century?

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SnooLobsters1304@reddit

Thrace, İzmir and aegean states. I know thrace goes back only 600 years but the rest is 1000 years now. İzmir was captured in 1081 along with the other cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megali_Idea

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Volaer@reddit

Thrace, İzmir

Are not claimed by Greece.

and aegean states.

Aegean states?

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SnooLobsters1304@reddit

Look I get it you might have no beef bu you being friendly is not the general situation among greeks right now. Most greek people online think Türkiye as invader of anatolian lands an this is the illiteracy we have to deal day in day out. Im almost 40 now i was born in the days of limited to no internet and we thought everything is Fine and dandy back then but todays kids are not the same. Internet is everywhere now and full of hostility against Turks and it does not serve in the way of peace. Thats what I am saying. Todays kids wont welcome the hostility coming from the greeks in tomorrows.

I will ad just one comment i have seen last week and leave it up to you.

You are not very clever. They want to disband NATO so they can side with Israel against Turkey. NATO will be useless at that point.

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icankillpenguins@reddit

So this makes you think that you are clever? You have very low standards. Turkish economy and EU economy are integrated, EU is almost fully made of NATO countries which means the Turkish army and the French/Spanish/German/Italian/Bulgarian and other EU country armies are already compatible with each other. When NATO goes away it doesn't mean that those countries are left with no armies, it means that they can just say let's call it European Security Organisation or something like that and carry on. In fact, EU has already progressed towards that and even if Turkey isn't officially part of the EU army efforts it is closely aligned and it is already accepted in programs like "Made in EU". Currently USA is actively against a parallel organization to NATO as they were against it the last few decades, the moment NATO goes away you have the European Army.

As clever boy you are, you will probably say some BS about how most of NATO spending is US, I will ask you to look all the wars since WW2 and show me a war that US actually won. Most recently they were running from Afghanistan with people falling off from military planes and begging Iran to open the Hurmuz. USA is spending a lot but they don't have much to show.

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echo_c1@reddit

Even WW2 won by Soviets by far, regardless of Hollywoods portrayal. USA played an important part but without Soviets we would live in the Third Reich now.

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Darknemo20000@reddit

I am not so sure. I mean Germany needed help to bypass Versailles and it was Soviet Union that helped them. Without Soviets German military would have taken far longer to rebuild and by then Hitler might not have been in power. Not to mention that Molotov-Ribentrop pact did help Germanu to conquer Poland much faster. Had Soviets not helped them that war could have costed Germany more.

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echo_c1@reddit

"Without Soviets" doesn't mean they wouldn't exist but they wouldn't engage in military action against Germany, so they could attack other countries while continue to keep non-aggression pact with Germany.

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Monterenbas@reddit

but without Soviets we would live in the Third Reich now.

Doubtful, without the soviets help, germany wouldn’t have been allowed to cheat in the Versailles treaty and rearmed in secret.

If it wasn’t for the fear of communism, the nazis may very well never have gain power.

Without the soviet alliance and secret pact, couldn’t have invade Poland the way it did.

Any_Mine_6368@reddit

You're correct.

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DrawerJealous@reddit

Are you aware that you used the words "Trump's America" and "clever" together?

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reallycooldude456@reddit (OP)

maybe they want to disband the NATO.

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icankillpenguins@reddit

And what do you think it happens when they disband NATO? NATO is not an army by itself, it is a coordination center for its members. The moment NATO is disbanded they can create the European army just by changing the logo.

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ZestycloseMessage905@reddit

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Volaer@reddit

Nah. There would have to be a reason - Turkey attacking Greece, or genocide of Kurds or trying to get a nuclear weapon on its own something like that.

brother when it comes to wars like these, only aerial forces and ranged weapons matter,

Nope. Radar system, anti AA system, satellites, army readiness and leverage matters as well.

in which israel has a great superiority

They dont. Turkey has mid-ranged, hypersonic missiles, drones, an elaborate AA-system and soon 5th generation fighters. They have leverage with the F35s, but that only takes you so far. Decently operated radar systems (plural important here) will detect them. Add the +1 mil drones and this is far from a pre-determined outcome.

quirkchungus62@reddit

If being pro Israel means getting to annihilate Turkey then I will do a complete 180 on my views on Israel for the time being.

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Mansur754@reddit

And the worst apart about that is, they're not even gonna have a fight but just attack the kurds and the kurdish areas

China has no reason to ever attack Taiwan.

Taiwanese chip manufacturers (arguably the only useful thing China could want from them) have declared that the moment they get attacked by china they're exploding every chip factory and leaving behind scorched earth. China won't do it.

They'll instead slowly influence them and get them on their side. We're not in 1600s, annexation is over. Vassalization is the way.

eh?

Turkey is, basically, Iran & Arabia, combined. (culturally).

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Dunkelhaft@reddit

Dolmaki?

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

İts been long revealed that ex-CİA contacts have been put in powerful positions in Turkey, of course it will sooner or later backfire

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HYBRIDLqTHEORY@reddit

If that happens Greece and Egypt will have the best days of their life

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What the fuck.

Look, we have to realize that NATO was formed to deter and counter the threat posed by the Soviet Union. Today, its main purpose is to do that but against Russia.

NATO doesn’t care about attacks on a NATO member unless it’s from Russia. That’s why NATO doesn’t come to Greece’s aid when Turkey did the Imia crisis in 1996 or when Turkey tried forcing through over 20,000 foreign migrants through the Greek border in 2020 with the help of the Turkish Armed Forces. That’s why Greece is armed to the teeth besides being part of NATO. Whereas NATO immediately scrambled to add Finland and Sweden to NATO when Russia invaded Ukraine, a country that borders NATO countries and has sent tons of military equipment to Ukraine.

So, NATO doesn’t care unless the aggressor is Russia. In this case of a proxy war between Turkey and Israel in Syria, the aggressor wouldn’t be Russia, so NATO wouldn’t care. Also, I find it very unlikely that Israel would ever strike the country of Turkey itself and not just their proxies in Syria. In order for NATO Article 5 to possibly be invoked and implemented it would have to be an attack against Turkey not against their proxies in Syria.

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byhesher@reddit

What a bunch of baloney. Everyone in Turkey knows that Erdoğan and his special son are exporting resources to israel via ships even now.

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The USSR was allied with Germany before 1941, guess who was both an ally of Europe and fierce opponent of the nazi regime since the war began? The US.

Ridiculous on several counts.

Firstly to think US decisions on weather to stay on NATO are driven by Israel and overall by middle east matters is lunacy.