WARNING: Palmetto State Armory now using third-party face + ID verification on some orders
Posted by Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 359 comments
This is a follow-up to my previous post. A lot of people thought what I described sounded like a scam, which honestly seemed more believable than this actually coming from Palmetto State Armory. Unfortunately, it’s not a scam. It was confirmed by Danny from PSA in my last post, and by customer service when I spoke with them.
PSA is now using a third-party service, Intellicheck, to verify orders—supposedly at random. They require a full face scan along with scans of a government-issued ID.
In my case, I got a text from a random number saying I had 30 minutes to complete the verification through their site. No prior notice, just a time-sensitive message asking for biometric data and ID.
Obviously this raised red flags, so I contacted them directly to make sure this was right.
Unless it was buried somewhere deep in the terms of service (and I did look), there was no clear indication to me prior to ordering that these invasive verification requirement would be expected. I was only made aware of it about 4 days after placing the order. After they had already taken the money out of my account and confirmed the order.
Curious if others have the same concerns as me and if anyone knows more about the company they’re using, Intellicheck.
Seriously disappointed in PSA. This is an excessive level of data collection, and one I'm not comfortable with, especially given that its related to firearms. It also raises concerns for me about how that data would be handled over time, particularly if the company were ever sold or ownership changed.
I wont be buying from them anymore, thats for sure.
HeughJanus@reddit
what the fuck
cheesecake-gnome@reddit
Sound like the feds have shut them down and are now operating a honeypot to catch anyone who orders great area items (I’m looking at you, pistol braces)
It’s not strong, but it does glow
souloldasdirt@reddit
PSA is the perfect company for the feds to infiltrate. They are basically the Walmart of guns.
Useful-Ad-2274@reddit
A_Queer_Owl@reddit
my bet is they're tracking minorities buying guns. anyone who's too brown or too trans looking goes in a database.
Searril@reddit
I have to ask, do you really believe this or was it an attempt at a joke that didn't land?
Danny_PSA@reddit
That is the dumbest shit I’ve ever read, and I wish I had those seconds back.
Danny_PSA@reddit
That is definitely one of the opinions of all time. 😆
A_Queer_Owl@reddit
why else you doing it then.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Helps stop fraud, no other reason
A_Queer_Owl@reddit
uh huh, sure.
cheesecake-gnome@reddit
Exactly what a fed would say
Danny_PSA@reddit
WI_Esox_lucius@reddit
Holy tinfoil hat
cheesecake-gnome@reddit
Today’s conspiracy theories are tomorrows news stories
Danny_PSA@reddit
It’s not used for anything except high-dollar electronics and optics.
SpilledBagofRice@reddit
How could work for a company that goes against the people! Shame!
Trevelayan@reddit
Yeah and the NSA spying on you and Epstein rapists playing mothers' voices so their infants would suck harder on their dicks was just a conspiracy, but here we are.
tomerz99@reddit
While I won't disagree that there's probably someone somewhere high-up trying to do that on the backend, it is still true that this specific 3rd party service exists for fraud related purposes. I've dealt with them buying things from retail stores using their in-house credit cards. They suspect you might be using a stolen card and the only way they can afford the insurance on the credit is by being as invasive as they are to ensure you're actually the authorized user. It's a penny pinching method on behalf of them/their payment processor to avoid large insurance costs.
All that being said, PSA should probably consider dumping whoever they use now and trying to find a better option before this shit starts hitting people left and right.
AloneTouch8894@reddit
I buy tons from Psa I never had this issue what was purchased for this to happened or was it done because of where you live. I just bought 3 lowers last month no issues.
DetColePhelps11k@reddit
... Just as I was about to grab some 5.56 and I was considering buying an AK from them. Glad I saw this first. I'm not spending a penny with them until this stops.
rugerscout308@reddit
Psa can suck my dick
Where psadanny to tell us hes gnna talk to somebody and do nothing
Significant_Sink_628@reddit
I just ordered from PSA no scan necessary 🤣
RCMike_CHS@reddit
If there was nothing much going on in the world right now, I'd likely complain about invasion of privacy. Unfortunately, it's not the case that everything and everyone is "hunky-dory" right now. I can see it from PSA's perspective that they'd rather know who they're selling to at this time, in case LE has to come to them for clean up later.
HWKII@reddit
An invasion of privacy is an invasion of privacy. They’re not principles if you abandon them when tested, they’re just hobbies.
xwildxcardx@reddit
So I assume then that you don't ever visit a casino, or fly domestic airlines. Go into a government building. . . . . Ever?
HWKII@reddit
Ah yes, the “everyone does it, so it’s not a big deal” argument. Been a while.
xwildxcardx@reddit
No, that's where you are mistaken.
You object to biometric data collection. Rightfully so. But more often than not, those same people who rail against the world that some company is gathering data don't think twice about hopping on a plane to Maui, or Florida, or Cancun or whatever.
Either be outraged at all of it, or none of it
HWKII@reddit
I am.
xwildxcardx@reddit
So which is it then?
Do you refuse to support PSA because they do this, and also refuse to fly or gone into a casino
Or are planes and casinos still acceptable
HWKII@reddit
Let me ask you a question - is a paparazzi taking a picture of you the same thing as starting up an OnlyFans? Try to be less obtuse.
xwildxcardx@reddit
I know the point you are trying to make.
But even the courts uphold you have no right to privacy in public, so paparazzi can take all the pictures they want.
As for OnlyFans, that's a commercial arrangement. That person is engaging in contracted business with end users and that requires at the very least a valid state Id. And they probably should require a live face shot to verify they licensed holder is in fact the one who presents the id
TeetheCat@reddit
You are supposed to be protected against intrusive government surveillance in public, you don't have to willingly submit to it while shopping.
xwildxcardx@reddit
No, you are not required to submit to intrusive surveillance while shopping.
They (PSA) is also wholly within their rights as a private entity to require face scans to do business within a state, or even blanket commerce.
It is no different than a business that forbids firearms on premises or when stores required masks in the heights of covid.
HWKII@reddit
Apparently not.
TeetheCat@reddit
disingenuous argument
TeetheCat@reddit
You dont have a choice when you fly. You do have a choice about whose business you use. Are people supposed to walk if their mom died when they live on the other side of the country? Having to endure forced invasive searches isn't the same thing as buyting a smile, wait for the flash ejection port cover online and getting a face scan.
TeetheCat@reddit
"Its common sense!" "Its for the children!" "We can't let the terrorists win!"
RCMike_CHS@reddit
Can you find a place to go in person? Then do it. I can go to PSA . I can go others places too. If I was to buy online I would expect to deal with it now.
DannyDanumba@reddit
Shame, I was just about to drop a few thousands too. Sucks but I’d rather keep my money in my pocket than to send it to a company doing this SHIT.
Just2LetYouKnow@reddit
What a stupid way to permanently lose all my business.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Absolutely not. I will never buy another product from them.
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
he was all up in my other post. now that this ones blowing up, he's silent
Danny_PSA@reddit
Been replying here, too. 🤣
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
Do they teach yall the passive agressiveness at the PSA orientation? the customer services reps sounded the exact same as you when I talked to them lmaooo
Yall have really fallen off 😂
Danny_PSA@reddit
Nope, I come by it naturally and honed it through hard work and dedication. 😆
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
Doesn't seem like your taking this situation seriously. What a shame...
Danny_PSA@reddit
I’ve put out the information that needed to be put out, and I’m responding to legitimate questions with like answers.
Sarcastic comments or questions get a like response. Appropriate ROE, the cornerstone of any diplomatic discussion. 🤣🤣
gunplumber700@reddit
I’m surprised any company lets you respond with comments that would not be considered professional regardless of the form of criticism they’re getting.
riversofgore@reddit
You go around yelling the customer is always right don’t you?
gunplumber700@reddit
No, just making a point. I’m all for the psa guy making jokes and have defended that before. But there’s a point where making fun of someone for a valid criticism because you’re in a bad mood… reflects poorly on the organization you represent…
tractorcrusher@reddit
Somebody call the waaaaaaambulance
gunplumber700@reddit
You’re missing the bigger point… feel free to read pretty much any comment here on why…
tractorcrusher@reddit
I’m not missing any of the points, you’re just being a tool attacking someone’s personal professionalism.
gunplumber700@reddit
Lmao yea ok. You sound not only butthurt about it, but it’s obvious you don’t understand the point… maybe try asking why people have a problem with it on explain like I’m 5. I’m sure they can dumb it down for you.
Danny_PSA@reddit
I’ve got my left and right limits.
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
the emojis are awesome man. I didnt know psa started hiring middleschoolers lol
drefizzles_alt@reddit
Bruh, he's literally the social media guy. Stop acting like he has some kind of actual say in decisions like this.
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
He's the one defending it. If he was saying something like "ill make sure to bring this up with the higher ups", than that would be one thing, but he's just making jokes on here
tolebelon@reddit
Says the guy using “lol”.
At least he is replying and active. Plus you’re on the internet. I wouldn’t be butthurt if someone used a gif to reply.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Know why they call him Chief? Because he likes chicken and beef.”
Tacoma FD was such an amazing show!
Danny_PSA@reddit
Made it all the way through my ABCs, but then it got tough. 🤷🏻♂️ That’s that FL public education system for ya.
Apollo821@reddit
Just tossing my 2 cents in here that you're childish replies are actively driving away people like myself.
I'm not really a big spender at PSA or anything, but now I'm not a customer at all.
Danny_PSA@reddit
I appreciate the feedback!
gunplumber700@reddit
I’m curious what u/mattbbb14 thinks
Danny_PSA@reddit
He’s actively thanking the good Lord that he’s not the Reddit guy anymore. 🤣
merica11776@reddit
Your replies make be want to spend more money at PSA
Kyle_Blackpaw@reddit
to my knowledge danny has zero policy input at PSA so joke are probably the only thing he can do right now.
Due_Cranberry6250@reddit
It’s crazy how cocky and arrogant a schmuck like you act in a comment section full of possibly lost customers. Psa are liars about more than just this.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Be sure to bring this up anytime a PSA deal is posted on gun deals. People should know what they may be subjected to.
Danny_PSA@reddit
If you buy a high-dollar optic or electronic, you’ll encounter it. No other items.
SomeCar@reddit
Why?
Danny_PSA@reddit
Because those are the most targeted products by scammers who make fraudulent purchases to ship overseas after they’re intercepted.
They are starting to use AI to brute-force 30-50 purchases at a time for a high dollar electronic or optic (because they can’t be traced and the ATF won’t care because it isn’t a firearm), shipping them to a different address, taking the items and shipping them overseas. We’ve stopped more than 3.5m in fraudulent sales in the last month or so.
IDMExpectant@reddit
Change your web back end settings to "call to order" for those products. Problem solved without being promoting invasive data collection.
Danny_PSA@reddit
I would urge you to read the post I made for clarity.
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
We did
ThePretzul@reddit
Pictures of face + ID doesn't stop that problem though lmao
All it does is means you're shipping a product to someone with a scannable fake ID that has the same name and the scammer's picture on it.
Danny_PSA@reddit
You should go read my big post
ThePretzul@reddit
I have, and it ignores the problem that the claimed purpose (avoiding fraud on high dollar orders - understandable) is not what is actually accomplished.
I know you are not the policy maker yourself, but I would implore you to pass feedback along on the unreliability of Intellicheck specifically alongside similar services. They are virtually all rather easily defeated by any scannable fake ID's that are pretty widely available for less than $200. For high dollar items this pales in comparison to what the scammer stands to gain from the scheme and does not present any real roadblock to how they operate.
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
Exactly correct. There was even a site called "only fakes" that would create them and they would work. Synthetic identities (fake identities made up of elements from multiple real identities) also readily defeat a lot of these identity validation tools.
Danny_PSA@reddit
I’ll pass it along, thank you!
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
I did and he is right
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
That requires a bot defense strategy, not customer abuse. This problem has been solved a dozen times over by tons of other companies.
Dipper_Pines_Of_NY@reddit
So fix the problem in a way that isn’t massive data collection. This is ridiculous, I was considering ordering a handgun from PSA prior to this but PSA is now on my no buy list.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Sadly, we do not sell Daggers or Rocks to the state of NY.
Dipper_Pines_Of_NY@reddit
Wasn’t even talking about them. But okay. Do better or you’ll be out of business in no time.
intelw1zard@reddit
Sounds like a you problem with your eComm setup and payment processors.
You should be investing heavily in fingerprinting so you can detect fraud orders and never allow them to even checkout. Plenty of services like this out there.
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
That system and approach only protects PSA and puts every customer you subject to it at real personal risk with no assurances about how their information will be handled or secured during or after the process. It does nothing g to make your customers more secure and only reduces your potential charge back costs.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Still unacceptable
Danny_PSA@reddit
I appreciate the feedback!
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Honestly not the worst way you could have responded.
I hope your business practices change because I genuinely liked, and supported PSA. But this recent issue is unacceptable.
I'm a business man myself, I get the things you deal with that many people don't see. But you absolutely botched this one and you'll need to do a good bit of rebuilding your reputation before I even consider buying PSA again.
As of now, I am a firm no.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Go read my post for some context and clarity, if you like. Have a great night!
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
I read your post and it does not actually address any of the actual concerns. The internal, self serving, business justifications you used when deciding to implement the tool do not explain why it is valuable to us, the customers (to be clear it is not). Moreover, the real concerns about how the identity validation service will handle our information if we get caught in the procedural snare you set without warning. To validate our identities, they are collecting and analyzing everything that would be required for a threat actor create deepfakes or craft synthetic identities or just go after some good old fashioned identity theft.
Your explanation addressed why this approach is good for PSA and does nothing to assure those of us who are observant enough to be legitimately worried about how our information will be handled, secured, disposed, etc. through this process that we were not forewarned about when trying to conduct legitimate transactions.
Excelius@reddit
From the other thread, they don't do this verification if the shipping and billing address match.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Yes, but you can just set policy that orders over $X must be shipped to the billing address and not use an incredibly invasive "AI" verification bullshit with a government ID.
I should not need to tell anyone why giving any company, let alone "AI" a full facial scan and a copy of your government ID is a really bad idea.
Excelius@reddit
What you're talking about though completely takes any choice away from the buyer. If these conditions are met (high value, non-matching shipping address) they just won't sell to you at all.
Is that actually better?
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
That's only one potential option. There are other ways to reduce fraud, they picked one of the shittiest possible ways, and I will not support a business doing such. Especially when it was sprung on the customer AFTER the order. If they're going to do shit like this that needs to be explicitly disclosed before any charges are made.
One such alternate method is "Adult Signature Required" where UPS will require a photo ID and document who signed for the package.
Excelius@reddit
I do agree that the particular vetting mechanism they chose is shitty.
I'm not sure what other processes or vendors they could have went with for deeper verification for flagged transactions.
I'm just not sure that flat out denying orders is necessarily better. Look at all of the people griping that they flat out refuse to ship to their state because they don't want to deal with the ridiculous song and dance of compliance with those states laws.
Username7239@reddit
They still won't send me (a FFL) a screw or a T-shirt because I live in a ban state(MA). When I finally got. Rep on the phone they told me to vote better. When I tried explaining that the people in MA who own guns are the ones FIGHTING the bad legislation I was pretty much told it's my fault for living in that state.
Fuck PSA. They exist to sell stuff so cheaply it puts other stores out of business and they don't actually support the 2A like they tout.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Unfortunately, this case has to do with MA long arm statute and how broad it is.
It's a liability issue.
Username7239@reddit
It's not a liability to send a T-shirt. An AR15 absolutely. Fucking Buds Gun Shop can figure it out and PSA refuses to play ball because they act like they're too good for ban states.
A roll pin isn't a liability. If this company is that afraid then shut the fucking door and pack it up.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIII/TitleII/Chapter223a/Section3
The statute is extremely broad, and I do not fault them for saying "We're not touching that one"
Username7239@reddit
Do you work for PSA or is it just your hobby to defend their bad policy?
Thanks for linking my own state's laws, I'm well aware of them. I'm also aware that the AG often admits (as does our Executive office of Public Safety and our Firearms Advisory Board) that they know it would be losing lawsuit in almost every scenario.
A screw or a hat isn't a liability. If it was Nike wouldn't have stores here for fear someone might be wearing their shoes while committing a crime. This is a company that likely spends millions in corporate attorneys. They can figure it out of they cared enough. Personally, I'm happy to give my business to anybody else and will continue telling my colleagues out of state to avoid PSA.
riversofgore@reddit
You’re wrong and ignorant. You keep saying it’s just a screw like that matters. It doesn’t. Not to zealous AGs. It’s not parts they’re targeting it’s companies. They would sue them for “just a screw” because they’re a firearm manufacturer.
Go spend your money elsewhere. Simple. Instead you want to berate the customer rep out of an astonishing level of self entitlement. You want PSA to fight your states legal battles for you? How many sneaky and rude comments have you sent your governor or state reps? Fucking none I’m sure.
603rdMtnDivision@reddit
Your state does suck for gun laws though and how they do shit regarding them. So I'm not surprised some companies avoid that altogether. I'm right to the north of you and got pulled over back in 09 and had some shot up target sheets in my truck in the glove box I never took out and when I grabbed my registration the cop saw them and said "you know, that could be taken or seen as a threat and probable cause to search your vehicle" which we all know is complete bullshit but if for some reason I had to fight it it'd cost me money I didn't have at that point in my life.
Take that to a scale of millions of dollars and the risk / reward ratio starts to skew towards unfavorable. I know it's not the gun owners fault but the ones who voted it in. Your states police union can also get fucked for making a huge stink about it and saying they won't enforce it then suddenly they get their special LE exemption (dogshit) and they turned on you guys immediately. You should be way more pissed off about that than a company not wanting to risk dealing with your states govt full of stupid bitches with Healey being the biggest one of them all since she decided to activate some "emergency" bullshit last minute to override the petition that cleared all requirements to be brought forward again.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Knock off the personal attacks or you will be blocked.
It's not about winning/losing. If it makes it past a motion to dismiss, your corporate liability insurance may be going up.
I agree the facial scan stuff is BS. I agree their communications, as you have relayed them, are BS. I just also agree from a GRC standpoint why they may say "Nope, not dealing with MA, for any reason"
Username7239@reddit
I asked you a question, it wasn't a personal attack. If your feelings were hurt, I'm sorry to hear that.
They can say that all they want but pretty much every other major company has figured it out so at this point it's just PSA being obtuse.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Or principled. 🤷🏻♂️
IamMrT@reddit
Man I hope you get paid very well to suck them so hard
Danny_PSA@reddit
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
Ok, that one was funny
Danny_PSA@reddit
😆
Username7239@reddit
Obtuse and cowardly
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Direct personal attack.
Bye felicia
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
Not sure why this was down voted, this is a good and objective take.
zenisan1@reddit
personal attack ? dude was asking you a question. are you a moderator here ?. because that mis construed accusation would have me block you myself.
snippysniper@reddit
Just because the government knows it’ll loose doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t cost PSA untold legal fees and years for it to work through the court system. I can understand why they won’t deal with certain states at the moment. It’s not worth the potential millions in legal fees.
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
Yes, this is a better way
Danny_PSA@reddit
It’s considered “advertising”, which is specifically mentioned in the statute.
Username7239@reddit
Funny how every clothing brand will still sell in MA despite the bigger likelihood of someone wearing their merch while committing a crime.
Just have better customer service and stop hiding behind liability issues that don't exist.
Danny_PSA@reddit
I appreciate the feedback!
Just remember: the folks on the other end of the phone are people to, and don’t deserve to be spoken to belligerently or disrespectfully. If that happens, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone caught some snark right back. They’d be disciplined for it, for sure, but the CS reps we have are wonderful people and even Mother Theresa had a bad day once in awhile.
I apologize for your experience, but really do appreciate the feedback.
Username7239@reddit
I was nothing polite on the phone. The second the word "Massachusetts" came out of my mouth all semblance of professionalism went out the window. It was abundantly clear the people on your side of the phone didn't feel any need to treat people in ban states as people worthy of their time.
I appreciate your company's continued support of the second amendment, especially in the states that need the most help...
onehunglow777@reddit
" I was nothing polite on the phone"
SHOCKING
ThePretzul@reddit
Companies who actively disrespect their paying customers absolutely can and should expect the same treatment in return.
It sucks for the individuals, but if you actually care about them you'd fix the problem by not disrespecting customers in the first place.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Appreciate the feedback!
BobsOblongLongBong@reddit
That's weak sauce.
Danny_PSA@reddit
We’ve joined many lawsuits, and donated millions to GOA/FPC to assist them with their lawsuits.
BobsOblongLongBong@reddit
That's great. Honestly.
But also, still sounds like you're overcomplying to a ridiculous degree if you won't ship a t-shirt. That puts a bad taste in my mouth. And now I also risk randomly being chosen to hand over a scan of my face and ID?
In an industry full of companies who don't do this kind of stuff, why would I ever choose you?
Danny_PSA@reddit
Go check the post I just made, hopefully it’ll add some clarity
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
I did, it doesn't
Solidknowledge@reddit
Some of you guys are insufferable with this stuff. You guys think PSA enjoys losing an entire state's worth of business? the liability is just too high and someone in their legal department probably made the call.
Danny_PSA@reddit
No I don’t. I always same it’s a shame to see what my former home has come to be. Unfortunately, until MA changes their laws, we will not ship to them. The ability of the MAAG to sue any firearm company for a product being used outside the manner in which it is intended is the sole reason.
Username7239@reddit
Maybe try teaching your employees to be a bit more gracious when conversing with people. You know, basic customer service.
The MA AG has never once sued a company so while I understand your hesitation you're also one of the largest companies with extremely good lawyers.
Glad it's out in the open that it's not because of actual MA law, PSA just refuses to serve citizens of MA.
TargetOfPerpetuity@reddit
As if Danny is high enough in the hierarchy to be dictating what employees are and aren't saying on the phone.
StrikeEagle784@reddit
As someone who’s a supervisor in a call center that has to enforce really unpopular policies, yeah poor Danny has no means to actually change this policy or do anything about it. Poor guy is just a punching bag
Danny_PSA@reddit
Even after all the hits, I’m still pretty
TargetOfPerpetuity@reddit
Yeah man, I just appreciate –purely from a business standpoint– the fact that PSA has designated someone that interacts with customers directly out here in the wild, with all to see. That's rare, and not without risk.
They've gotten some things right and some things they've fumbled. It's never going to be perfect, what with humans involved. If this face-ID thing is a legit policy going forward, I won't be ordering again. That's their strategic decision to make as a company, and mine too as a customer. Free markets, baby.
But some people act like they just know you're sitting in on meetings with the Board and wielding the power to push the company in one direction or the other. I would hazard to guess the number of times you've decided on PSA's policies and corporate vision over rounds of golf and cigars with the Executive Vice Presidents to be rather... few.
Could be wrong. Been wrong before. My wife keeps a list. But I'd put money on it.
Danny_PSA@reddit
I’d put money on that bet, too.
My opinion and $2 would get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds, meaning my opinion is about as useful of a currency as a napkin. 🤣
TargetOfPerpetuity@reddit
But you make it look cool, and that's half the battle.
Danny_PSA@reddit
The ABCs of life: Always Be Cool
StrikeEagle784@reddit
Damn straight bro 😎
Username7239@reddit
Danny is in the unfortunate position of being the direct representative of his company. I have nothing against him personally nor do I envy his position. That being said, his job is exactly as you describe, to be the person to complain about these things to.
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
"Maybe try teaching your employees to be a bit more gracious when conversing with people. You know, basic customer service."
100% well said
Username7239@reddit
I've dealt with this exact situation with many distributors and other dealers. Most of them are gracious enough to say, "it's against our corporate policy and we're sorry but there's nothing to be done." The attitude of a company that sells some of the cheaply manufactured parts on the continent is absurd.
onehunglow777@reddit
"Cheaply manufactured parts' but you want them for some reason 🤔?
Username7239@reddit
I don't but my customers do. Or my customers moved to this state after buying their piece of shit and now they need a repair.
onehunglow777@reddit
You think you're talking to the CEO? Do you think he makes these policies? Why would you want a PSA T-shirt from a company you dislike? You're not special because you have an FFL and are a gunsmith.
After reading your post, I can tell why they were not "gracious". You're complaining about customer service 🙄 while actually not being an actual customer. 🤷♂️
csx348@reddit
Alwayshasbeen.jpg
My locality doesn't even have a similar law to MA, PSA just hates us, likely for political reasons, so no T shirts for me let alone legal guns or ammunition.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
I understand that one, MA has an obnoxiously broad long arm statute. But absolutely piss off with this "facial scan" tech. There are much better, much less invasive ways to limit liability.
You've lost a number of customers for life over this, and your responses are not handling it well. You're big enough where I'm sure you'll be fine. But I'm someone who used to recommend you to people, especially new shooters looking for more value-oriented products, I will now do the opposite and caution them away.
csx348@reddit
Same issue and this verification shit is just the icing on the cake. The laws in my area are less restrictive than MA and they still won't ship a t shirt here, let alone firearms and ammunition that are completely legal.
A reminder of the hypocritical mission statement:
Unless you live in an area we don't like
I genuinely don't get the love for this company when it claims to be such a strong advocate for the 2A and "arming law abiding citizens" but fabricates its own shipping restrictions that are more restrictive than the law in some states.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Based on your post history, you live in Chicago. The city that sued a firearm manufacturer because they didn’t change the design of a firearm they’d been making for 40 years because criminals can commit a crime by making it into an illegal machine gun so they can go commit crimes.
No, we do not ship anything to Chicago, MA, or DC simply because the risk of a frivolous, but costly, litigation isn’t worth it. The laws in those areas are incredibly vague by design and allow for a wide margin of interpretation allowing for overzealous AGs to bring litigtation.
kmoros@reddit
You're getting lots of shit, but as a lawyer in the 2A field who lives in CA under our new AB 1263 law, I totally get it.
The people demanding you "support the Second Amendment" won't be paying your legal bills when these far left state or city governments sue you.
Danny_PSA@reddit
I appreciate your experienced POV. We’d love to have God-knows-how-many customers from those areas, but risk/reward isn’t there. I commiserate with those citizens, and wish their lawmakers had even a smidgen of common sense.
kmoros@reddit
I've worked on lawsuits defending various companies from this kind of litigation. The firm I worked for charged very friendly rates, and yet the sheer number of hours leads to eye-popping bills. The governments barely even care if they win; burying gun dealers/companies in legal bills is enough.
We need a renewed PLCAA that bars states from doing this.
Danny_PSA@reddit
From your lips to lawmaker’s ears!
csx348@reddit
This is such a red herring dude. There are literally zero FFLs in Chicago. Glock can't sell firearms directly in the city even if they wanted to, and the city sued them anyway. You sell to other places in IL and that's the same situation as Glock, so it's really just a political thing for PSA to not even send a t shirt here, let alone legal firearms.
Not for handguns or non-semi auto rifles. It's one statute that preempted all local handgun regulation. Pretty simple and made the entire state the same, actually. The idea that PSA writes one statute off as vague and unclear is telling that either they or their apparently nonexistent or incompetent legal team simply don't care. It isn't rocket science and you're already selling to other parts of IL which makes this hypocritical.
But again, if this company were true to it's mission statement, it would be doing everything it could to ship legal products here. But instead, it's some weak doge meme sob story about hypothetical litigation that's really just veiled political discrimination.
Be true to your word or at least caveat the mission statement.
TigerJas@reddit
Ok, but it IS your fault. You get the government you deserve.
zenisan1@reddit
damn, i basically got told the same thing from a female rock river rep when maryland was going through the 2013 shit. i believe it.
kilroy-was-here-2543@reddit
While requiring the shipping and billing address is fine, companies that do that need to be ok with shipping to a damn PO Box
WI_Esox_lucius@reddit
OP stated their addresses didn't match and that's why it was flagged for fraud verification.
This is not something being done for every order.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
I don't give a fuck. It shouldn't be done at all. This is a MASSIVE privacy and data collection issue.
WI_Esox_lucius@reddit
I was just providing context that this wasn't some standard typical transaction.
It was a high dollar amount thermal optic with different addresses. They were flagged as potential fraud and PSAs current mechanism was for ID verification.
Willing to bet if the addresses matched it would've shipped out no issue.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Correctamundo
Danny_PSA@reddit
It’s done for high-dollar electronic and high dollar optic orders that are the most fraudulently purchased.
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
Does not matter, you (PSA, not you specifically... I assume) have made your customers potential victims in the procrss but collecting and processing data not needed to.combat the fraud.
masteroffeels@reddit
I just canceled my order.
That's disgusting.
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
There are way way better ways to handle fraud. Can confirm 100%.
ComfortableDemand539@reddit
I'll take things only a Californian would be okay with for 1000
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Kentucky.
Now try again, without the ad hominem.
FBI_Open_Up_Now@reddit
Just like, that I will never buy another item from PSA.
ScubaSteve3465@reddit
Same.
Important_Hippo_@reddit
No dice
gunplumber700@reddit
Well I guess I’m never buying anything from psa again.
u/danny_psa why on earth would psa think this is a good idea?
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
He's been sticking behind it and defending it. Remember that when they fold from the pressure and get rid of this policy
gunplumber700@reddit
I saw your post on thermal hunting and was like no way they’d do something that stupid. Ok lawyer must be getting scammed. Boy was I wrong.
They had a good niche carved out when they had good prices and had regular good deals, but that’s slowly faded as they’ve been releasing their “premium” lines and failing at releasing products that have been perpetually coming soon.
I will not buy anything from psa so long as they’re doing this.
I guess midway and brownells are getting all my psa business.
MoM_RUBBERducky@reddit
Midway refuses to ship a flash hider, same with Surefire War Comps to CA among other products, even though they aren't banned in CA at all, simply because someone could use it in the wrong way even if there are ways for them to be used legally in our builds. They have been this way for a long time too. So if you're taking the 2A absolutist high road, cross them off your list too.
TeetheCat@reddit
Yep, all because the anti 2A attorney generals said pretty please. Then they say they are staunch defenders of freedom. There is a long list of these companies.
MoM_RUBBERducky@reddit
https://i.redd.it/13sralodkeug1.gif
Yup, it's all so tedious
gunplumber700@reddit
I’m taking the I value not being the victim of identity theft or scams road.
I will continue to support midway regardless of what muzzle devices they won’t ship to other states… 2a rights are FEDERALLY protected rights that states do not have the right to infringe upon. I’m not going to blame midway for manipulated voters, corrupt politicians, and trying to keep above water when it comes to navigating bureaucracy.
TeetheCat@reddit
And all the anti 2A states did was to ask them not to sell to people in their states regardless of legality there. You don't need to submit biometric data to buy stuff online. I don't use companies that are disingenuous about their 2A stances. I live in a rabid anti 2A state. You not supporting my freedoms as well has an eventual effect on everyone's freedoms. You're doing it wrong.
gunplumber700@reddit
Oh ok. Since you’re a legal scholar maybe you can enlighten us… So a private business must engage in business with you… and risk legal and monetary penalty to do so…? Sounds legit /s
Are you also mad at businesses won’t ship 30 round mags to ban states, even though, by your logic; they can be pinned to make them compliant…?
Also by your logic you live in a ban state, so clearly that’s your own fault…
TeetheCat@reddit
Lol okay. I live in the United States so illegal immigrants are my fault also right?. Great argument. I'm sorry for attacking Iran and stuff too. I never said anything about shipping a banned item to anyone . You said that. I literally have posted in this thread about legal items being restricted because a states politicians said pretty please. So if I chose not to purchase anything from that vendor, because of their adherence and contribution to restrictive anti consumer policies in furtherance of government restrictions on freedoms because of the choice of state my family chosen to raise me in and let others know about that policy, I am now a commie bootlicker? Makes sense. I love the just move argument. Ill just leave the wife and kids and dad with cancer. Thanks for the advice. Clown.
MoM_RUBBERducky@reddit
Genuinely I am confused by your stance. One company refuses to sell goods to X State that are still LEGAL in X State, and you continue to support. Another company refuses to sell goods to Y State that are ILLEGAL in Y State, but they get put on your no fly list. (Setting aside that both States' laws are Unconstitutional and should be repealed) So you are ok with one company infringing on 2A Federally protected rights who go out of their way to not sell goods that are perfectly legal (even by the ridiculous State Law) and are not going to blame them, but the other company not selling goods that are illegal in a certain State is bad.
Or is it simply the Identity theft potential and if that part wasn't a thing you'd still be ok with both Midway and PSA? If it is purely the identity theft aspect then I understand your stance.
gunplumber700@reddit
“I’m taking the I value not being the victim of identity theft or scams road.“
What part of that doesn’t make sense…?
Midway isn’t infringing on your rights… the state government is… acting like it’s the private out of state businesses fault for stupid laws is as logical as blaming spoons for making people fat.
By your logic they should ship 30 round mags to CA because they can be pinned and made to be compliant… so are you mad at psa for not doing that too…? Are you mad at psa for the things they won’t ship as well…? You don’t seem to be…
Do you still not understand the point or do you need it to be dumbed down even more…?
MoM_RUBBERducky@reddit
Naw, your argument still doesn't hold water. Keep riding Midway even though they refuse to send perfectly legal items to potential customers.
gunplumber700@reddit
Mine is demonstrably true, yours is replacing logic and reason with repetition...
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
all good man. I would of thought the same thing if hadn't happened to me
whiskey_tang0_hotel@reddit
I stopped supporting them after Chad left. He was awesome.
AAC quality has tanked. None of us use the 77gr for sniper matches anymore. The variance in the velocity is just too high.
Danny_PSA@reddit
For anyone who hasn’t read my post:
“Regarding Order Verifications
Hello everyone!
A customer posted about a situation earlier today that involved our order verification system, and I wanted to make a post to ensure that everyone understands the process and reasoning behind it.
PSA implemented this service some time ago, on potential fraud orders that contain high-dollar optics or high-dollar electronics due to the massive increase in overseas fraud rings who purchase these items to intercept and export to sell overseas. This system does not affect all orders, only on the rare case that fits certain criteria
There is no dollar amount I can tell you, for obvious reasons. There are three things that have to happen with an order to trigger the verification requirement, which the customer who made the purchase and the follow-on posts nailed all on the head:
1: High dollar
2: Electronic/optic
3 FLAGGED BY THE FRAUD PREVENTION SYSTEM.
In the case that raised this issue, the OP admitted that his billing and shipping address were different, triggering the fraud prevention system, which in turn triggered the verification system due to his purchase of a several-thousand dollar thermal optic.
The verification system actually isn’t used very often, the customer who posted about it just hit the trifecta. Many of you have ordered the items listed above and had no issue whatsoever, because again, it is only triggered when the 3 criteria above are met.
I understand that many folks are upset at the prospect, but since we’ve implemented this system (quite some time ago), it’s prevented millions in fraudulent purchases and lost products.
I apologize for any misconceptions that many of you may have had, and I hope this post provides some context and clarity.
As always, I’m always happy to answer questions and help in any way I can!
Time for a beer.”
Dtrain323i@reddit
Was PSA running into issues with ITAR compliance?
Danny_PSA@reddit
No, we fully comply with ITAR restrictions.
TeetheCat@reddit
"on potential fraud orders that contain high-dollar optics or high-dollar electronics due to the massive increase in overseas fraud rings who purchase these items to intercept and export to sell overseas."
Isn't this the definition of not complying with ITAR, and why you implemented the 3rd party microscope up the butthole thing? Or is it NOW we comply with ITAR?
Danny_PSA@reddit
We do not ship items overseas. The scammers send the items to a location within the US, and then ship it elsewhere for sale.
TeetheCat@reddit
Right. Which would make it an ITAR violation, as I stated in my comment. But implementing the 3rd party biometrics company verification because it hasn't happened before.
TeetheCat@reddit
Oh yea, 3 months ago you stated on another post that you had "strict security protocols in place, including multifactor authentication options, session monitoring, and fraud detection tools". Enter 3rd party face scanning verification.....
CYCLOPSwasRIGHT63@reddit
I get it. My billing and shipping addresses don’t match, so I’ve had to verify my identity on my first purchase with a lot of firearms companies. For every one of those, I either got a phone call or an e-mail directly from them, and all they wanted was a picture of my ID. No problem.
But a 3rd party coning in and demanding a face scan and ID within 30 minutes with no clear explanation or direct communication from PSA is unacceptable. That’s just unprofessional. I’ve spent a lot of money with you guys in the past. I’ve recommended your products to a lot of first time AR buyers. But if y’all think this is a good way to go about ID verification, I’m gonna have to rethink that.
Could you explain why you’re using a 3rd party service instead of directly communicating with customers?
NEp8ntballer@reddit
So you're blaming the AI/algorithm and not offering a different means of verification for people who feel that this is a gross overreach of their privacy? Bold. You should just stop selling high dollar electronics and optics because privacy is worth a premium.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Thanks for your feedback!
Suppertime420@reddit
So much for arming all Americans….what happened to that mission statement?
whiskey_tang0_hotel@reddit
I mean they want to arm folks AND help identify them.
TeetheCat@reddit
For later. For the no knock warrant. The police state employees have kids to feed you know. Gotta manufacture fodder for them and the court system. How would nepotism survive?
TeetheCat@reddit
You can say almost anything to sell people stuff. Often even when people call you out on insincere statements apparently by some of the people commenting here. They say ignorance is bliss.
zenisan1@reddit
yeah thats a big fucking nope from me dog. i'll buy up and untill i get tagged with that horse shit. i dont care how "good" you think your security is on those "third party" data collection systems are. someone always sells the data, and since theres no contract that i've seen, where they the third party promises to not sell my data. they arent getting it from me directly.
TeetheCat@reddit
Especially as companies can change their terms of service at any time. Perfect example is the DNA company that was gonna sell everyone's data when they went bankrupt.
InternationalEye1506@reddit
My credit card co. had no problem stopping payment and crediting my $275 on ammo after I explained the situation.
TeetheCat@reddit
The merchant are the ones who absorb that charge back. If the card is not present, such as in an online purchase, the merchant is the one that eats it.
Marvzuno@reddit
May also have to do with recent bills that went into effect in other states that require verifications. CA resident here and quite a few vendors have implemented this in order to ship to us. Along with id and signature required shipments. Some of the states with a lot of restrictions are also ones with large customer bases and I’m sure has impacted vendors negatively on their sales.
TeetheCat@reddit
States are using this to find out who has naughty in their opinion items so they can no knock them.
Kyle_Blackpaw@reddit
welp, thats a dealbreaker for sure
TeetheCat@reddit
After our politicians saw how great online "age verification" was for data mining in the UK, the state legislatures can't pass laws for it fast enough. Its unfortunately only a matter of time before we have a social credit score here in the states. They want every operating system to have it built in. And your 3d printer reporting everything you print.
Its just common sense and for the children don't you know. Thier favorite excuse for just about everything.
whiskey_tang0_hotel@reddit
I work in cyber security.
I can say for real do not do this if you value your privacy. Your photo and your face will be sold to other companies 100%.
There are so many examples of companies getting busted for harvesting data like this.
Shame on PSA. This is a scummy practice.
TeetheCat@reddit
Imagine what Walmart is doing with all of their faceprint data.
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
Me too, I work in cybersecurity and this is hard core bad practice for this type of business.
The_Old_1@reddit
Yeah, that is fucking wack. I won't drop a dime there until they stop that shit.
Eckx@reddit
Right. I was about to order some things, but time to empty the cart.
ATPsynthase12@reddit
Go to primary arms. Prices are the same and shipping is way better. I order exclusively from them and Brownells
klugh57@reddit
Don't sleep on Midwayusa. They typically ship within a couple hours, have decent prices, and carry some stuff Brownells doesn't.
I live pretty close to them and get most of my orders (shipped with the cheapest/free shipping) in two days or so
taterthotsalad@reddit
For optics I have been using B&H. Free 2 day shipping.
5stringattack@reddit
Nothing but positive dealings with Midway, always at my door within 3 days and tends to ship the day after ordering for me.
facebacon69@reddit
Midways clearance and sale section is like crack for me
ElementalFemme@reddit
It's only going to get worse. There is a massive push by big tech to get everyone's biometrics into their AI training sets. All of the "ID verification" is a smoke screen for mass surveillance, AI training, and stalking.
Jaken_sensei@reddit
HaikuPikachu@reddit
Damn there goes my list. Time to start a new one smdh
JustADutchRudder@reddit
I'm gonna build a black out pistol memorial weekend and was deciding between PSA or go little more expensive with a different company. Its nice when companies remove themselves from the list.
dunksoverstarbucks@reddit
They’ve been dead to me for years. They won’t even ship a hat to my state.
TeetheCat@reddit
Same. For the same reason. I have to spend hours to find online sources for ammo even though its legal to ship to my state, but the atty general asked them not to.
NoTinnitusHear@reddit
Meanwhile NSSF is being sued for having a 20 year database of gun owners including guns owned, names, phone numbers, addresses, etc that they built with warranty information provided by manufactures like Glock and Savage Arms, but you all could not give less of a fuck.
TeetheCat@reddit
I am always amused by the people screaming that the ATF isn't allowed to have a database but there is nothing stopping them from obtaining the information from an outside source with no such restrictions. And people stand around and wonder how they track them so fast.
ChrisLS8@reddit
I stopped shopping there when they decided to tell FFL03 owners to go fuck themselves then again they told us that when they refused to put actions into place to be able to ship to CA after the newest infringement on our rights.
They also refused to ship complete lowers to even CA FFLs which is fucking insane
TeetheCat@reddit
They do this to alot of states. Won't buy from them. Many of these supposedly hard-core 2A supporters on paper are just blowhards in reality. Say anything to make the sale.
Bortjort@reddit
I'm OUT
TeetheCat@reddit
PSA won't even ship a tshirt to some states, because the Attorney generals of those states asked them nicely.
TeetheCat@reddit
The states that go after people for buying alot of firearm related items when they live in a highly restricted state probably love this.
jaunesolo81829@reddit
You wouldn’t happen to live in California?
NakedMuffinTime@reddit
Nah, PSA is on reddit confirming they are using Intellicheck and mandating facial ID scans
Danny_PSA@reddit
PSA is only using this service on high-dollar optics orders and high-dollar electronics orders due to the massive increase in overseas fraud rings who purchase these items to intercept the package and export and sell overseas. Again, The Intellicheck verifications we have put into place will not affect firearms or most other items, only high-dollar optics and electronics. All major online retailers are moving to this or a similar system to combat theft of high end optics and high end electronics.
Spe3dGoat@reddit
read the room.
we are done with PSA.
whiskey_tang0_hotel@reddit
It affects your customers privacy.
I definitely wouldn’t want my face and name associated with “high dollar” transactions. That makes you a good target for identify theft.
What are you thinking?
“Hey bad guys here’s IDs and face shots of our big spenders”
Danny_PSA@reddit
I would highly suggest reading the post I made in this, and our, sub for clarity and context. Thanks!
whiskey_tang0_hotel@reddit
I did read it. You’re using the service for “high dollar” purchases.
That makes people a target for fraud, identity theft, and more.
I work in cyber security. This is not going to end well. So many companies have gotten outed for having data breaches and exposing customer sensitive information.
Nobody wants their data in the wrong hands. You are wrapping it up nicely for the bad guys.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Are you sure you read the post I made? It specifically mentions the criteria needed to trigger an additional verification step, only one of while you mentioned.
High dollar electronics or optics, and a fraud prevention trip (such as a mismatched billing/shipping address). It won’t get triggered until all three criteria are met. With the old system, it would just be automatically cancelled and the account suspended until verified anyway.
BlackjackNHookersSLF@reddit
So the new system has saved millions in fraud, but the old one would just cancel the order entirely?
How's that work, eh? Genuinely asking since I also run (my admittedly much smaller) online store with admitted (small but painful) breakage.
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
That criteria does not explain anything about how the collected data are handled it only explains a way the tripwire gets pulled to trigger the process of setting up the customer to be a future victim if and when they go through the process of handing over all their confidential personal identifiable information to a otherwise uninvolved third party with whom the customer had not contractual relationship or leverage.
iLikeReddit2142@reddit
Nah ya'll done screwed the pooch this time dude. Better let Jamin know he needs to cancel this shit.
2Drogdar2Furious@reddit
You all need to find another solution. This is going to cost you a lot more money...
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
im in texas
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
and it was for a scope
MouseHunter@reddit
For a scope? Fuck PSA. I will NOT do business with them.
ScubaSteve3465@reddit
Yea fck them. They definitely are getting pulled off my list of shops I buy from.
ChairmanMcMeow@reddit
Danny's ass 😂
Danny_PSA@reddit
Is well sculpted, and best appreciated in a good pair of jeans.
ChairmanMcMeow@reddit
Youll move to golf carts soon enough. They always do
Danny_PSA@reddit
The Infantryman in me would never let that happen.
I’ll stick with my Lambofeeties
quezlar@reddit
oh good a company notorious for getting hacked and losing credit card info now has biometric data. What could go wrong?
SayNoTo-Communism@reddit
Are you ordering to California?
PickleNutella@reddit
Check out the PSA subreddit, their rep/employee said they now use Intellicheck for fraud prevention
and it can randomly hit any order, not just California
CiD7707@reddit
Not any order. Just high cost optics and electronics.
PickleNutella@reddit
Good to know, read the posts a few hours ago but only saw at the time that it was random
snippysniper@reddit
It takes high dollar optics/electronics puchase and a mismatched billing/shipping address to trigger it.
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
texas and its for a scope. so no problems there
Danny_PSA@reddit
PSA is only using this service on high-dollar optics orders and high-dollar electronics orders due to the massive increase in overseas fraud rings who purchase these items to intercept the package and export and sell overseas. Again, The Intellicheck verifications we have put into place will not affect firearms or most other items, only high-dollar optics and electronics. All major online retailers are moving to this or a similar system to combat theft of high end optics and high end electronics.
BusinessDuck132@reddit
While I’m still not a fan of this practice and y’all are almost definitely gonna lose business, I always appreciate you being an active part of these discussions, even when people get pissy with you. I still support PSA and yalls products but I definitely won’t be purchasing anything that requires this kind of verification. To be fair, if I’m ordering any kind of high dollar sensitive piece of equipment like an optic or electronics, I’m probably going to buy in person if possible anyways
Danny_PSA@reddit
We appreciate it. I understand it isn’t a popular policy, but since these scam rings are making 50k orders at a time using AI to brute-force a successful transaction through, this is the step we have (very unfortunately) been forced to take.
No_District8356@reddit
Why not add staff review for overseas orders over a certain dollar amount? This is a piss poor policy that HAS already cost the company money. I'm finishing a Mk18 and starting a Mk12 next. Guess who won't see a penny? I don't want to come off as rude, I wholly understand that you are probably not drafting company policy, it's just sad to see one of my favorite retailers make such an anti-consumer, anti-privacy, and anti 2A policy.
snippysniper@reddit
Doesn’t sound like it’s overseas orders. Sounds like a stolen credit card being used and the shipping addresses are different than billing. I’m betting packages are being sent to a spot within the states then being illegally exported. Persons who’s card was stolen does a chargeback an now PSA is out the optics and the money
BusinessDuck132@reddit
Yeah and with the hivemind of Reddit, no one will take the time to actually think about what the issue is and will just get angry and downvote
Danny_PSA@reddit
Folks would be getting real salty if we had to raise prices by 20% to balance out the losses from all the fraudulent purchases the check has stopped so far.
bownt1@reddit
stop being gay
Devils_Advocate-69@reddit
I would never buy from PSA before this either.
Strifethor@reddit
PSA is notoriously terrible if you don’t align with their ideal customer.
Jobhater2@reddit
Nope. Nope. Nope. Not going to do it.
Started_WIth_NADA@reddit
I’m sure they are terrified by the Reddit army.
otullyo@reddit
I never liked them, they have always been suspect and overhyped in my opinion.
publicram@reddit
This may be part of the 3ds verification for high risk purchases and to prevent fraud its weird I know and sucks for vendors but they dont control this believe me. When youre in a space where cards dont want you to buy so many issues pop up
intelw1zard@reddit
/u/danny_psa pls hire and make a cybersecurity department.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Our ITSec guys are pretty dope
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
Mid at best if they had anything to do with this fecal farce. Im hoping this decision. Was made by finance over the objections of these dope dudes you speak of cause that is the only way this makes sense.
willwork4ammo@reddit
You gotta think of the positives though.....when there's a data breach, and there will be, at least you get a year of credit monitoring....
singlemaltcybersec@reddit
This guy gets it
Waaaash@reddit
I wish I could dv and uv at the same time
WhichWall3719@reddit
Why is it always some hyper-shady company that just got stood up 6 months ago doing these scans? Lots of them aren't even based in the US
kaptainkooleio@reddit
Damn, thank you for the heads up. I was gonna buy a bunch of guns from them for my bday and Christmas but fuck that shit. The last thing i want is my biometric data being stored by some sketchy, third party that isn’t my trusted LGS/FFL. PSA has done some shady shit in the past but they’ve been good to me for the most part, making firearms purchases from them quick, easy, and relatively affordable. But this is a step too far.
It’s a damn shame too since half my arsenal was from PSA.
Empty_Masterpiece_74@reddit
Boycotts don't work unless the company knows they are being boycotted and why. If they get a few comments through their contact us pages, they will be having a meeting of the top executives probably on the same day.
If their policy gives you heartburn (it does me) I would say let them know.
prollfeller@reddit
Man this sucks. I fucking love psa. Not another dime now though goddamnit.
Different-Set4505@reddit
People say so much, and they will probably grow sales just like Dick’s did… people just take it. Weird times we live in.
ZeroPointSpecter@reddit
Intellicheck is a legit company, and some retailers do use third-party ID verification for fraud prevention, but PSA not clearly communicating this upfront is a problem.
I’d feel the same way about handing over biometric data without prior notice, especially for something like firearms purchases.
minimum, they need to be fully transparent about when and why this might happen.
At
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
they said it was because my billing address and shipping address were different. but like i said, this wasn't told to me until I called them up days after placing my order. Either way, thats still a crazy level of identity collection. And whether they are a "legit company" or not, I don't want anyone taking that info from me. especially for a 2A related purchases
wysoft@reddit
Well some of us in ban states have arrangements with family out of state.
ZeroPointSpecter@reddit
I'd have the same reaction. I'm never going to use third-party ID verification to make a firearm-related purchase online. No thanks.
Th3HappyCamper@reddit
Maybe send some information to the NRA. They seem like a group that wouldn’t tolerate this type of data collection.
Username7239@reddit
They're the #1 collectors and sellers of data in the gun industry.
Except for Eddie the Eagle and their insurance branch, the NRA will negotiate your rights away for a tidy sum in the pockets of their executives.
Th3HappyCamper@reddit
Damn I looked into it and you’re right. They were very vocal against national databases but it appears it’s because they didn’t want competition.
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
good idea
PSA_stole_CC_numbers@reddit
Never touched them after they did nothing to curb the fraud in the 20teens.
PHNX_xRapTor@reddit
Fraud that hurts the consumer is fine. It matters when it hurts them.
thegrumpymechanic@reddit
Username checks out.
Trumpisking1776@reddit
What do you all expect. It's psa for Christ sake. Poverty Pony USA. It's probably for china,the data collection.Yall know its expensive to buy sub par parts.
Lost4Neverland@reddit
Yeah I'm out
zenisan1@reddit
also, intellicheck is a publicly traded company, im absolutely sure your getting your data sold.
UtgaardLoki@reddit
Ha, no.
DeafHeretic@reddit
PSA - I don’t care why you are doing it. Not going to submit. Plus I will be sharing/spreading the word.
santar0s80@reddit
Unfortunately there will be a data breach. It's really just a matter of time.
RCMike_CHS@reddit
So PSA rep says they only do it on high dollar items that can be intercepted with intent to resell abroad. Is that correct u/Danny_PSA ?
Danny_PSA@reddit
100% correct. Only high-dollar electronics and optics.
bnbrown24@reddit
What did psa try to do to prevent fraud before they went this route? They had to know this wouldn’t be popular. What happens to the facial scans after it’s verified. How long before other transactions require facial scans?
Danny_PSA@reddit
We had, and still have, a robust system to prevent fraudulent purchases, but when thieves started using AI to brute-force thousands of orders at a time there’s only so much you can do.
Again, this verification system has been in place for a long time. It doesn’t pop up often, only when the 3 criteria I described are met. OP just happened to have a mismatch billing and shipping address, and ordered a multi-thousand dollar optic.
RCMike_CHS@reddit
Thank you.
Danny_PSA@reddit
Always happy to help!
clientnotfound@reddit
For now
Pjerzy@reddit
And I figured my order from the weekend was still processing because of the bums in the warehouse. I’ll have to look to see if they are trying to make me send them a feet pic for a Bcg. I’ll stop ordering from them after that.
KingCong206@reddit
That sucks! I order alot from them. Seriously not ordering anything else now until they change that. Can we get Danny to confirm on this post?
MiseryIndexer@reddit
That's some crazy shit. Not ordering from them any more!
sludgehammr@reddit
Oops, no more PSA for me. Damn shame.
perrierpapi@reddit
And nothing of value was lost 🤣
map2photo@reddit
Jesus. I was literally on their site about to buy a lower. Welp. That sucks. Off to purchase elsewhere.
sicklyboy@reddit
Welp, bye bye PSA. Will spread the word to anyone else I know who does business there too.
Imissyourgirlfriend2@reddit
Damn, and I was thinking about giving them some business.
Guess not.
NoNameJustASymbol@reddit
Reply FUCK OFF to opt out of doing business with us!
-PSA
TooMuchV8@reddit
This is a legitimate question and Im not trying to be an ass...buuuuut...do you by chance have a "foreign" sounding name that might get you flagged by our big beautiful orange gub'mint?
The fact that youre the first "random" check that anyone on this sub has ever heard of, sounds like some back-end-gub'mint-oversight.
iraisecane@reddit
Ihaveguns.com it's a direct PSA dealer that's one way to bypass.
MVGbear@reddit
Its the principle of the matter. What they’re doing is not ok. Why would I fund it?
spank_the_tank@reddit
“You were supposed to destroy the with, not join them!
Skinny_que@reddit
Andddddddd it’s time to stop shopping there smh
RangerExpensive6519@reddit
And I thought their captchas were bad. I’m out. Sorry psa
Theres4ofUs@reddit
I mean, just buy somewhere else. I use them, but they do have anything special..
Gafspls@reddit
Lmao fucking disgusting
tghost474@reddit
That sucks im out
throwsFatalException@reddit
Wow. OK I am done with PSA unless it is in one of their stores.
Big-Doughnut8307@reddit
Just bought a new pistol from them not 45 minutes ago. I didn’t get/have not yet received this kind of note from them, but I won’t be buying anything from them that requires this kind of BS. And if it got bad enough, the 3 guns I’ve bought in the past 3 months from them will be my last.
KccOStL33@reddit
Damn, was cool while it lasted I guess. I won't be buying anything else from them.
Kothliies@reddit
Yeah, nope. Won't be buying shit from them again. Used to get ammo, guns etc from them all the time.
surplusnut@reddit
Yeah PSA is off the list for me. Disappointing. :/
PickleNutella@reddit
PSA told several hundred people in California in a chain email that I (legally) bought high-capacity magazines.
California Department of Justice told potentially millions of people online I have a CCW and my personal info.
Local Law Enforcement also gave my CCW+Info to some journalist in San Francisco (Tomo Chien).
You get used to this shit after a while.
Zombiefly13@reddit
Seems like you have a common theme with your issues…
Big_Z_Diddy@reddit
"You get used to this shit after a while."
That is why our country is fucked. Instead of standing up against this sort of shit, and government overreach, voting the bastards that implement this shit out of office, and putting people that actually listen to their constituents instead of whatever bullshit ideology they espoused, or whatever special interest paid them off into those offices we just "get used to it."
Our forefathers would be ashamed of us. They started a revolution over a 2% tax on tea and no representation. They'd have stopped this shit MOST Rickey Fucking Tick.
Background_Event_612@reddit
Doesn’t make it right
LilJonny2cookies@reddit
I guess the alternative is they could raise prices to help recover. I am guessing this will anger folks but if you are buying expensive sights (I’ve never shopped PSA no idea what kind of optics) and your shipping and billing address are different they need to protect themselves.
Visa and Mastercard can charge them a lot of additional fees if they go over 1% fraud.
Anyhow, companies have very little recourse when it comes to chargebacks so it is a sign f the times
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Easier solution:
Big_Z_Diddy@reddit
I used to just tell my FFL buddy what I wanted from them, he'd order it, and I'd pay when it got there.
Guess PSA has gone to the dark side.
GenEXOutlaw@reddit
Not acceptable. Just no.
Theworker82@reddit
Fuck that. They just screwed themselves over. I've been a good customer for so long that I have P tac purchase history. Plenty of other companies to buy from. I'll reconsider coming back after I hear they stopped doing it.
VacuumHamster@reddit
Welp, it was nice buying from them while it lasted...
Negative_Mushroom545@reddit
Wrong site
ScubaSteve3465@reddit
Are you high? This was confirmed by PSA themselves.....
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
what do you mean?
Negative_Mushroom545@reddit
Scam site
Negative_Mushroom545@reddit
Don't need facial for verification
BBQSauce61@reddit
Danny PSA or whatever his tag is literally confirmed its 'randomly' done for fraud prevention.
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
They asked me for it. call them up if you don't believe me
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
nah it was the real cite 100%. go check my last post if you don't believe, PSA reps confirmed this
ixipaulixi@reddit
Incorrect:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PalmettoStateArms/comments/1sgsroi/i_will_never_buy_from_palmetto_state_armory_again/of7lnh2/
WI_Esox_lucius@reddit
Wait until you find out all the information the government has on you.
LilJonny2cookies@reddit
I’m guessing it is fraud concerns. I’m more angry at the thieves than PSA.
PSA I’ve built some of the top anti fraud architecture on the web. If that is why you are doing this I’m in Coral Gables and happy to help you do better fraud detection.
The fact is if it is due to fraud there are better ways and in about 2 weeks the criminals will have found away around Intellicheck, Jumio etc., etc.
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
i see where your coming from. but this is till unacceptable
Ok_Lawyer2208@reddit (OP)
I blame both
Minute-Log-7098@reddit
I wonder if this is going to be the first of “many”
Dragonnuttz@reddit
ecsnead75@reddit
My LGS is a PSA dealer, he orders everything for me...
Salt_Main_8672@reddit
And just like that I’m canceling my order 😢