theres no ACTUAL law stating how far you can PC..
Posted by planetbuster@reddit | Truckers | View on Reddit | 87 comments
...right?
a dot cop can be a dick about all he wants but there isnt actually any hard limit, correct?
theFoamBorn@reddit
This is what I show drivers who have questions about PC. I keep a whole stack of them printed out on my counter.
Your question is answered here.
CatOfGrey@reddit
OK, seems reasonable.
Wow. Maybe they should close that loophole, maybe?
Visual-Hovercraft230@reddit
There’s no loophole, pc is not for advancing a load nor relocating for better freight rates
Now on the ladder side, if your pulled over and inspected while pc you gotta make sure to not talk yourself into the hole if you are going for better freight.
As well, swift and other major companies will fire you for going over there set pc miles, or take it away and wait 90 days before getting it back.
CatOfGrey@reddit
I'm overthinking this, but is this an opportunity for under-the-table work? My guess is that the answer is 'no' with hazmat stuff, right?
truckeredditor@reddit
No. All work you do is on duty. Even if you're delivering pizzas in your home time. Work is work.
PutridContribution41@reddit
Used to work for Swift, went over 60+ miles once because I was in Vail Pass CO with no parking near by and stuck traffic. I used PC all the way to Denver. I for sure thought I was going to get fired. Nothing happened, not even a call. Lol
Visual-Hovercraft230@reddit
I’m a ex swifty with a couple co-workers still there. They along with prime do 90 days before you get pc. My buddy just got his removed for going 10 miles over on pc for 25 mile range. Trying to find parking
PutridContribution41@reddit
How recent and long have you been with Swift? I got PC the same day I got my truck, 25 mile restriction. Although, I did cheat one time and went over 60 miles if you read my post. Idk if they their getting stricter or what? Probably going bankrupt. Their earnings are over -100% .
Visual-Hovercraft230@reddit
This got implemented roughly February, I left in November last year
PutridContribution41@reddit
Yeah, sounds like they're going bankrupt. On top of that, there's 2 class law suits i received in the mail. Both Knight and Swift are separately getting sued for different cases. I've worked for both. Where'd you end up going?
MRLNRomeroMatt@reddit
This should be pinned info
Beautiful-Slice166@reddit
Ive pc'd 300 miles to go home after unloading, it really just depends.
anxious_polarbear@reddit
I used to do hotshot with a Ram 3500 and a 5 car trailer. When I was home, the Ram was my daily driver. Never had a cop even question it, even though I had my log checked a few times.
Even had a cop stop me, fully loaded, on PC late one night. I explained I was just going home from my girlfriend's house, certainly wasn't delivering cars at 11pm. Since I wasn't advancing the load, he let me go.
Ornery_Ads@reddit
... but can you justify it?
"Well, there's a really good steakhouse 2,000 miles away just won't cut it."
planetbuster@reddit (OP)
youre thinking the wrong way. dot cops got you scared? you dont need to "justify" anything. if you wanna drive wayyyyyyyy over there to go to a store or whatever, hey, its you paying the fuel, yeah?
Cardinal_350@reddit
I ran outlaw as fuck back on paper logs. If you don't completely insult a cops intelligence they tend to be fair. If you try and be a moron about it they'll nail your ass to a wall. One time I had a DOT cop handed my logbook back to me and say "You and I both know this is a load of bullshit. I should shut you down out of principle. But I can't prove it so how about a level 2 inspection instead?" DOT can shut you down because they don't like the color shoes you're wearing. Don't bteeat them like assholes or they will
planetbuster@reddit (OP)
oh.. its not like that, i as well as most people never treat them poorly without reason. ive just noticed more and more pc related drama lately and wonder if theres ANYthing out there placing any limits in terms of either mileage or time. theres nothing whatsoever to that effect on (for example) fmc's site. its my understanding canada has a hard limit but thats it.
Cardinal_350@reddit
I can't help you anymore. Obviously my 25+ years and nearly 3 million miles of experience running outlaw for most of it has no bearing on what you've already got your mind locked into. Push your luck and see what happens.
planetbuster@reddit (OP)
you sure are taking this kinda personal, mr supertrucker =)
beggin your pardon, sir, for not bowing down and just doing everything you say dependent upon your specific point of view. you.. seem to have missed the point of the post
USS_peepee@reddit
How dare you hurt Mr Outlaw’s feelings.
starjammer69@reddit
Why are you taking his response so personal?I’m not sure you understood the question. He understands DOT can be an a$$hat. He said that and wasn’t arguing that point. He was asking if there is anything in the rules/laws governing PC mileage/time. The answer is no, so long as you are not advancing the load or towards getting a load. If you finish a load on Friday night and haven’t been dispatched a new load yet you can legally drive 200 miles to go home.
starjammer69@reddit
Of course that doesn’t mean DOT won’t give you shit if they pull you over during that 200 miles.
AsphaltPirate74@reddit
Could you make a post and share some wisdom with the rest of us?
jessithecrow@reddit
if he doesn't want it, i want the tips and tricks. i bet you know all kinds of cool and useful shit.
___GRUMPY___@reddit
And one of the sneakiest tricks they pulled was saying “ this book looks great, now show me the other log book”. If you flinched like you were reaching for it. You were screwed.
SaltAndBitter@reddit
"Last week's, or the blank one for next week?"
ApollyonFE@reddit
Guys like you are the reason we have all these goofy ass regulations in the first place 🤣
Txctydrver@reddit
The reason we now have elogs automatic transmission and GPS on trucks is so trucking companies can hire stupid drivers.
DanEpiCa@reddit
Automatics have nothing to do with it, plenty of idiots out there who drive manuals.
planetbuster@reddit (OP)
oh lets hear more, supertrucker. what do you think im doing wrong? do you just automatically assume people are doing something sketchy with pc?
even just fuckin ASKING about pc is some kind of taboo?
guys like you are why we lose freedoms every day, a little at a time. dont be scared of the dot cop man, most of them are good people =)
ChiTruckDGAF@reddit
No, it's guys like you that are why we lose our freedoms by constantly pushing the limits of reasonableness way too far.
ApollyonFE@reddit
Who said anything about, sketchy, Cletus? It's regulated just like everything else is in a CMV 🤣
Ornery_Ads@reddit
You're right, you don't have to justify it to the officer. He'll just issue a citation for falsifying logs and issue a 34 hour oos order.
Have fun explaining to a judge that you really just wanted a nice steak way over there... where your load happens to be going.
planetbuster@reddit (OP)
you sure are assuming a WHOLE lot.. in fact, you kinda sound like a dot cop. either way this bullshit where you just assume from the start a driver/all drivers are just being shady with their PC is kinda sketch. you seem like one of those guys who posts alot.. yet you contribute little.
majinspy@reddit
That was literally their point.
Waisted-Desert@reddit
You don't need to "justify it" if you're driving for a personal reason. You can use your truck to pack up your entire house and move from Portland ME to Portland OR all on PC.
Dull_Conflict7200@reddit
The law is that PC is set by your carrier, as long as it is as/or more strict than the law. Basically if you're carrier has it set at 2 hours, the law is 2 hours for you. You also cannot drive tired, are still subject to all CMV laws including inspections and weigh stations. You also must have adequate time off after PCing to be well rested for your next shift. There's no hard rule, but 7 hours sleeper birth should be a minimum.
Kiklanisune@reddit
In canada i only get 75km a day 😭😭😭😭😭 and we absolutely cant have a trailer event empty has to be bobtail. I want this loophole lmao
biotox1n@reddit
basically you're not allowed to advance a load or position yourself for one, other than that you're gtg
dropped in California but you're headed home to New York for vacation? drive as much as you like so long as you're not "fatigued" and document your stops etc.
dropping the truck at the yard in Florida first? same story, but when you fly back to pick up the truck technically that's on duty time which is bs but just don't tell anyone
wanna go get something to eat in Vegas and maybe catch some show girls? entertainment and food are allowed but man you'd better have a specific restaurant in mind because no dot is gonna buy you driving that far for a good meal.
as long as the pc is legit there's no limit on distance or hours legally speaking
but your company can choose to restrict it as much as they want and using it beyond their approved restrictions can cause you problems
ParticularArrival111@reddit
As long as you ain't advancing the load. I'm just not sure why someone would want to pc 200 miles to go to a different store or resteraunt or some shit. If your o/o its your diesel you're wasting. If youre a company driver youre company probably wont be excited about wasting their diesel.
CashWideCock@reddit
I used PC to go 200 miles to visit my dad in the hospital.
ParticularArrival111@reddit
I would say thats a pretty acceptable use.
Inside-Finish-2128@reddit
Think of it this way: if you could magically carry a motorcycle or very small car (or even ANY car) on your truck without hurting payload, maneuvering, etc., where would you go in that motorcycle/car when you were off duty? That’s what you should be able to do with PC.
Exact-Leadership-521@reddit
And fireball if you're going to bobtail places motorbikes usually go
IronAnt762@reddit
Get updated on your local, state and federal regulations. Which one do you fall under and exactly what kind of freighting are you doing? Where I am currently operating (Alberta Canada); as Commercial our provincial PC =75km/day. Where and how you are operating will answer your question. Oilfield commercial, agriculture, livestock. You must be specific and clear in your question.
PShubbs91@reddit
I asked one of the safety guys at my company about that one time and he even said he doesn't think there is a limit by law. As far as I know there is only the rules your company sets if you are a company driver. Other than that, I'm 98% sure it's illegal to use PC to further your load.
rottenstock@reddit
The way it was explained to me by a CHP officer back in 2019:
You can PC any distance you want as long as you’re not advancing a load, but you have to return back to the origin point that your PC started.
kakarota@reddit
This could be to the discretion of the officer but Ive pced home mutiple times in the past with no issue
kakarota@reddit
Ive done 800 miles once got inspected a week later they didnt care. The PC limit is just whatever your employers policy is.
Socketz11@reddit
I was on my 34 in LA, I dropped my trailer in a secure fenced-in yard and drove to Vegas, all around the city for the weekend, then back to LA for a Monday delivery. Over 600 miles on PC.
LuckyLystrosaurus@reddit
I thought you meant LA as in Louisiana for a hot minute there
OGbigfoot@reddit
I thought they meant Lower Alabama.
forkystabbyveggie@reddit
I thought they meant Laos
rilloroc@reddit
I've PC'd all across this country and never had the DOT give me hell about it. But I didn't have an employer to deal with. I was always empty at the time. If the officer asked about it, I just said I was going home.
vfittipaldi@reddit
There is not. I know of people that PC 150 miles home after unloading, they are never questioned at an inspections. On the other hand i was questioned in Utah once why i drove using PC for 16 miles to a truck stop after unloading to do a restart.
Financial-Prize9691@reddit
I had the same thing happen to me. I PC for 14 Miles driving to a TA that had a movie theater and a strip mall near by before going a 48. 4 days later, DOT station in Colorado kept me for two hours looking at my route with Google maps, looking for places I could have stopped.
I finally told them to write the ticket or let me go and one of the other DOT officers got me out of there.
vfittipaldi@reddit
Assholes.
planetbuster@reddit (OP)
thats odd.. was this while already being inspected? one of the classic things pc is used for is to head to safe parking so its strange you were challenged on this. thats interesting
vfittipaldi@reddit
Yes, about 5 days after that PC even i was inspected in Utah and she questioned it saying i have to look up where you drove on PC because you have to go to the nearest truck stop and i said well i drove to TA because thats where my company fuels and i have showers there to which she said oh ok than... it was ridiculous... they just make up their own rools at weight stations some times.
Leaf-Stars@reddit
You’re good for a shower but they can deny PC if you fuel when you’re there to shower.
vfittipaldi@reddit
Yeah, that's on duty
Environmental-Pear40@reddit
The only limit is set by your company and that's not enforceable by DOT, as far as I know.
Unless you're advancing the load in any way or pre-staging yourself to pu a load in any way.
They can look for patterns as well. Like you magically decided to PC towards some place and ended up afterwards being dispatched to pick up there. The law is incredibly vague though always as for a ticket.
doobersthetitan@reddit
There's not, but DOT can smell BS from a mile away.
Its best to "be by the books" as much as possible, but when you do need to PC for a good reason is justified.
Its the same thing as using the extra 2 hours for inclement weather etc. Use it all the time it becomes a pattern and worth investigation, use it very little, even if to a slight advantage...no one will care.
dewky@reddit
DOT here. This is it. If you're doing it every day and you are running very close to your max hours we will question it but if it's only once in a while it's not a big deal usually.
jabber1990@reddit
I have no idea if its the law or not, but a company I worked for said that had strict rules and you had to return to the same place within 24 hours. I have no idea what "the same place" means.
but apparently people kept screwing it up and so they took away the ability to do that
Financial-Prize9691@reddit
This was the old law, it was changed in 2020. You still have to follow the companies rules though
hugothebear@reddit
That would make sense if they were claiming a 150 mi exception
jabber1990@reddit
I have a funny feeling they weren't, they were just switching it while under a load so they could drive more
TheRealOutis@reddit
My understanding was PC was to the closest safe haven no matter which direction just closest. Otherwise if youre doing something off duty and unrelated to advancing a load, like going to a restaurant, laundromat, or a movie theater. Telling a DOT officer you PC'd 600 miles doesn't really pass an eyebrow test because you passed a hundred safe havens and movie theaters.
robexib@reddit
In theory, yes. So long as you're not benefiting your employer any, you don't technically have a hard limit on PC
Good luck making DOT believe you on excessive PC use, though.
Skone164@reddit
I used PC to get from Phoenix to Reno for a week vacation. So long as the company sent me my load info the day I was supposed to be back in the truck, I was all good. If they sent me the load info too soon, DOT could argue that my PC was used to benefit the company. Sending it at the end meant that I could easily say I knew nothing about the load and couldn't have knowingly used PC to get me closer.
SubzeroWins1-0@reddit
As long as your empty I believe
Nearby-Border-5899@reddit
A DOT can say "that wasnt PC" and cite you then you gotta fight it. This is where keeping your logs right makes the difference. For example, if you note you dropped your trailer then went on PC then wehn you was done noted that you picked up trl xxxxx it makes it harder for them to craft their own little narrative.
Introverted-headcase@reddit
There are limits to how long you can drive, period. Once you reach a point where you are clearly fatigued and get into a wreck for example. Or using PC to drive far beyond those limits put in place to prevent fatigued driving. Furthermore it’s not the regulation you need to worry about, it is their lawyers are better than your lawyers. Litigation and nuclear verdicts are real people.
CaptianHuggyFace@reddit
Varies from company to company. It's capped at 35 miles for me.
BouncingSphinx@reddit
Company policy is not law.
bassnote1@reddit
Law will give you a ticket and fine, company policy will have you walking to the nearest bus terminal.
BouncingSphinx@reddit
Can’t disagree, but the question was asking if there was a law capping PC
planetbuster@reddit (OP)
someone who can stay on-topic on reddit? madness!
bassnote1@reddit
The LaW does read reasonable and off duty, so the officer gets to determine it
Dual-use@reddit
Hard limit? No. But the soft limit is the stipulation that you are not allowed to use PC while fatigued.
HOS rules limit daily drive time to 11 hours for the same reason. You will have an increasingly hard time convincing an officer (or judge) that you were still fit to drive the more you exceed that limit
Waisted-Desert@reddit
Correct, there is no limit. It just needs to be for personal use. All other DOT regulations apply, such as the truck needs to be properly maintained and in good working order. You still need to stop for scales. You still need to get adequate rest breaks, etc. The only thing different is how the time is logged.
Unfair_Fisherman_605@reddit
No law capping PC Don’t use it to advance your load or Get fuel and you should be fine. Anything that benefits the company or the load.
Defiant_Network_3069@reddit
This is the answer. You can PC all you like really (depending on company policy) as long as you are not advancing the load to its destination.
bmf1989@reddit
So far as I know the only thing that matters when it comes to pc is your reason, and you’re generally expected to return to the place where you started it unless you have a pretty good reason why you didn’t.
planetbuster@reddit (OP)
thats the thing, technically pc'ing 200 miles to walmart is totally fine, so long as it serves no commercial benefit where the load is concerned.
bmf1989@reddit
Which means you're gonna need to return to your point of origin unless this walmart is in the opposite direction of where that load is going. So that's what? About 3 hours there and then 3 hours back? Are you just taking a 10 before hitting the road again in the morning? Is that agent going to buy that your were fit to be driving after 4 hours of sleep after driving 6 hours past your clock the day before?
As I said, that green book is written in a way that an agent can fuck you, it's only a matter of whether or not they want to. And if you PC for hours in a single day and a dot agent pulls your logs I promise you that you're about to get fucked.