Am I competitive for anything right now with a less-than-stellar record

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flying_penguin104@reddit

2x 121 failures? I’d just plan your life around being at your current job til retirement to be honest.

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kzr_lover_@reddit

I am not in the airlines, but can OP just flow ?

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kiwi_love777@reddit

If they become a LCA that’ll help wipe those…

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Physical-Program-509@reddit

Can anyone just become a check airmen?

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As far as legacy hiring we have been told 1,800 to as low as 1,500. Yes, subject to change but they really don’t have much of a choice. I’d say this year that the 4 largest (legacy+major) will hire 4,000 pilots minimum which is the only way they can maintain growth when world politics calm down. In any case, keep plugging away. You won’t be stuck there forever, and don’t let negativity creep in. This profession is a grind sometimes. Keep your head up.

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boobooaboo@reddit

toss in an app at NK...

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Used_Shower3984@reddit

That's terrible advice IMO. In 6 months he'll be back on the street not building turbine PIC time, and unable to find even a regional job.

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boobooaboo@reddit

Tongue in cheek

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Whisky-354@reddit

They might struggle to get on with NK too tbf - I think, despite everything, they'll have a ton of (1500 hour CFI) applicants

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Bunslow@reddit

You're at a 121 job, that puts you better than the bottom, what, quarter of pilots rn?

Easy for me to say ofc, but honestly right now just isn't the market for anyone to advance, busts or not. Idk I guess the legacies are hiring 500/yr rn but that's gonna take a bit to trickle down.

I'm pretty sure the legacies get 50 applications for every single opening, same with regionals, same with 135, same with every damn CFI job in the country. In a year or two things may be different, ask again then.

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ce402@reddit

You have a job, and you’re a baby captain at a regional earning good money.

You need to reset your expectations. Have people gotten on at major carriers with just 121 SIC time? Yes, lots.

But they were still outliers, and had exceptional records. You do not. Plenty of successful pilots have had a training hiccup at their first airline. You’re lucky that you had yours at a time when it was possible to get a second chance.

You will move on eventually, and I bet will make it to a legacy/major if you desire. But it will take time. You’re going to need a resume closer to what the pre-COVID ones looked like, 5-6000 hours, 1000+ TPIC, instructor, management, or union roles. You’re not going to be wunderkid competitive, but with time and success, you will move on.

I’d recommend staying the course until you at least get 1000TPIC where you are, continue to update apps, go to job fairs, and seek out ways to stand out from others with added responsibility. Volunteer on membership or safety committees at the union if there isn’t much opportunity in the training side of the house just yet.

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

does 1,000h 121 TPIC unlock anything special or is it just a nice round number to hope for?

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ce402@reddit

Traditional filter in most hiring departments.

Also translates to just over a year in seat. My personal theory is, you need to see each season twice. And my own experience bears it out.

I didn’t feel comfortable in my seat until my second winter. You’ll also have had two training events at that point, which is a good measure that we can take a risk hiring you for the next 30 years.

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EdBasqueMaster@reddit

1000 121 PIC and 2 more training events and you’ll erase some of that past imo

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SSMDive@reddit

While you have some serious black marks against you... A PPL fail and two 121 fails. I'd like you to think about a few things. You are pretty lucky and in a good job. So life advice, not career advice:

1 - You managed to get a 121 job. Before 2015 that just would not have happened, today that would not happen. But you got lucky and at the right time got a 121 job.

2 - You upgraded to CAPT.

3 - Four year pay for a 121 CAPT at a regional is decent money in America... 150+ about twice the average salary in the US.

4 - You get a decent amount of days off. Most folks get 8 a month, you are very likely getting something like 13-14.

So you are making pretty decent money (just not compared to those other guys.... Remember comparison is the thief of joy). While moving up is a big deal, I think you should take a breath and just be happy for your good fortune right now. It will make you happier to be glad for what you have and not pissed about what you think you should have.

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changgerz@reddit

obviously the fails hurt, but i think you could still get on somewhere better than a regional eventually. its very competitive right now, but who knows what the future will hold. just keep your record clean from here on out and you probably will have a shot at some point especially with some tpic

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anonymousbird865@reddit

Hopefully I’m wrong, but the future looks to be even more competitive with the new statistics on how many pilots and CFIs are getting made recently and at this very moment. Best to be well connected and/or have a great reputation (as is the case in any field). Valuable connections and a great reputation can help cover up a “less than stellar” record.

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vivalicious16@reddit

Not related to your post but can you elaborate on your volunteer work? I need some and I’m wondering what people in aviation do for volunteer work.

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Ok-Door-4991@reddit

Only way to a major is flow with that record..

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flight_char_@reddit

I can’t see your previous posts so honest as someone almost at CPL right now. I’m curious with your pretty otherwise successful record what happened to get the 2x 121 fails. Any advice or what not to do you can give to us behind you?

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Tall_Sherbert7375@reddit

Huh? Why would you want to leave or step back to envoy FO? You’re getting 121 TPIC time… people would kill for this….

Do your time.

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Veritech-1@reddit

You need to do more. Training department, flight standards - check pilot, union work - safety committee or CIRP, chief pilot’s office work, volunteer outside of your job, consider getting a masters degree, etc.

You need to do more than just be a line pilot. You need to set yourself apart, because, right now, the thing that sets you apart from a thousand other candidates is that you have two checkride failures at a 121 carrier.

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Baystate411@reddit

You enjoy being gainfully employed to be honest. A part 121 failure is supposedly a black mark for like 10 years.

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Significant-Chest716@reddit

Not true at all. Plenty of folks with 121 fails at legacies. I had one from initial at a regional and have been at an lcc and now legacy

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Junior-Special5159@reddit

was this during 2021-2023?

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Weasel474@reddit

The big question- when? Everything is based on timing.

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Baystate411@reddit

Did they have 2?

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MyPilotInterview@reddit

Don’t give up, Delta hired someone with 4 121 failures in 2023.

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Neither-Way-4889@reddit

I heard DAL also hired a monkey who timebuilt to 1500 in 2023.

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boobooaboo@reddit

2026 is not 2023.

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Twarrior913@reddit

I am not as pessimistic as others might be here, I think you still have a fair chance. Congrats on the upgrade, update apps as you’re already doing, etc, but I would plan on at least hitting 1,000 PIC before you start to see any traction. I mean, that’s kind of “the standard” for anybody out there even with a cleaner record. A pure upgrade might have snuck you in during the hay days of 22-23 but, and while it is absolutely necessary for your situation (and most others) it isn’t a guarantee. 40 hours is like, two 4-day trips? I’m planning on at least 2 years and/or 1,000TPIC before I hear anything, if at all. Also, excluding Kalitta as I don’t really know much about them, but Breeze and Southwest are sort of acting like regionals are in that they are aggressively worried about people resumé washing more that they historically ever were. Putting a solid half-decade at your currently employer (which is OO if you flew both at regional two 4 years ago) will probably help there too. You probably won’t get into SAPA but you absolutely could make it into the training department. Best of luck

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squawkingdirty@reddit

Need that TPIC to bury the past. Just keep on keeping on

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kiwi_love777@reddit

Yep, and when able become an instructor or LCA.

You have a flying job, one that plenty of people would love to have, and you’re a captain!

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Mercury4stroke@reddit

There’s people with similar hours and less/no fails on here who aren’t getting calls. I think the TPIC is what’s holding you back honestly. The checkride fail individuals will say you’re “cooked” among other Gen Z brainrot language, but I disagree based on that TPIC being so low.

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Neither-Way-4889@reddit

Canadian jump pilot with all the inner knowledge of US 121 hiring. Got it.

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Mercury4stroke@reddit

Simply using my pattern recognition skills and sharing what I’ve seen is all. I can see that I’ve clearly upset some of the aforementioned checkride fail individuals given that I’m being downvoted. Being optimistic is just too much for some people… this guy has gotten a second job despite the fails, that has to count for something.

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Neither-Way-4889@reddit

Checkride fails during primary training can be overcome, but failing a 121 check is something different. Airlines need to know that if they spend the time and money required to train you, you will pass. Every failed training event is more money they have to spend on you, and it makes you significantly less desirable as an applicant vs someone with no busts (the majority).

Additionally, 121 training is designed to help you pass. They teach you everything you need to know and nothing is a surprise. Failing a 121 check is abnormal and it looks very bad on hiring boards. Its not like busting a PO180 on your commercial checkride in a piston single.

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Mercury4stroke@reddit

Makes sense since you put it that way. I appreciate the further explanation. OP was able to get a second job with 2 failed 121 checks though so maybe things aren’t as bleak? I could just be overly optimistic though.

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Neither-Way-4889@reddit

He says he got that job about 4 years ago which would put him right in the middle of the massive post-COVID hiring wave where airlines were much more lax than usual in hiring requirements.

Basically, he got extremely lucky with his timing, and now that hiring has calmed back down to normal he should expect a long wait before jumping anywhere else. He isn't permanently screwed, but it is going to take a lot of time compared to someone with zero 121 busts.

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Mercury4stroke@reddit

Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying man. There was clearly some more nuance to this situation, my bad for jumping to conclusions like that. Appreciate it still.

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GuppyDriver737@reddit

Your road is going to be much more difficult but not impossible. I will say though don’t expect anything any time soon. There are many people to choose from right now that don’t have recent 121 failures. You TPIC time is low. It’s not enough to just upgrade with 2 121 failures. LCA, union, management positions might not be available right now but keep applying when they do. Honestly you might be stuck where you are for a while, but not forever.

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Neither-Way-4889@reddit

2x 121 busts is rough... Wayyy rougher than if those busts were during initial training. Time is your friend, build more hours and don't bust anything else. Being at a 121 carrier right now is already solid for someone with your record, I would just stay the course and keep plugging away building that PIC turbine time.

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Go_Loud762@reddit

I think his busts were during initial.

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Neither-Way-4889@reddit

I went back and re-worded it for clarity, by initial training I meant PPL-CPL.

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Go_Loud762@reddit

Ah, gotcha.

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Outrageous_Duck3227@reddit

record hurts but networking and a decent referral still beats paper. market is garbage now

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Neither-Way-4889@reddit

Networking into a job at a legacy, lmao. Internal recs can only do so much, its not like you're gonna walk into the base chief's office and get the job on the spot.

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thefastpelican@reddit

Bachelors degree will help as well

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Go_Loud762@reddit

That's what a BA is.

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x4457@reddit

Keep your apps updated, but your training record is going to be a major hurdle. I’d probably expect to be a regional lifer with an outside shot of getting hired at an LCC as the pool thins out.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Made a similar post a few months back and people said to upgrade and someone would bite... nothing yet. some of you may remember me.

1 PPL failure

got my 1500 hours, went to regional 1

2x 121 fails for initial at regional 1 on crj, resiged, joined regional 2 about 4 years ago.

2 types (cl 65 and ejet) at regional 2

3500+ TT (2000 between crj and ejet 121 time) at regional 2

40 Captain hours on ejet at regional 2 (never upgraded on crj)

Associate and BA degree from accredited college

lot of past (2-3 years ago, not active) volunteer work

-

Breeze, Kalitta, Frontier instant TBNT without interview even though they hire FOs all the time, seems CA upgrade still isn't good enough. AA meet and greet 5 months ago with crickets, UA and DL nothing. Even envoy as an FO to get a guarantee flow is TBNT. Could it be my fails are still recent even though it's past the 4 year mark?

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