Why do you call pasta, noodles?
Posted by Few_Mention8426@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 202 comments
Just curious as it came up in another sub.. If someone talks about 'noodles' in a recipe. How do you know if they are talking about Italian Pasta or actual noodles.(chinese/japanese/korean/vietnamese/malaysian noodles)
In europe, pasta is almost always called pasta or refered to by its shape. Noodles are always udon noodles or rice noodles etc. Never pasta.
_Molj@reddit
Don't call me noodles.
Ok-Energy-9785@reddit
Because that's what they are..
movienerd7042@reddit
Only in the US. That’s why they asked.
Ok-Energy-9785@reddit
No it's not.
movienerd7042@reddit
I’m from the UK and we don’t call pasta noodles. So objectively it’s not a thing across the English speaking world and I’ve only ever heard Americans do it
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
You don't call pasta noodles, but a lot of pasta is noodles
movienerd7042@reddit
Not in UK English. And I might be wrong on this but I’ve only ever heard it in US English.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
You don't call them that, but a lot of pastas are still a type of noodle. Spaghetti is a noodle. Fettuccine is a noodle. They're both pastas as well.
Vermicelli is a noodle, but it's not pasta.
movienerd7042@reddit
They’re considered a noodle in US English but not in UK English
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
No, they're noodles always. But regional dialects will use different terms in common usage.
movienerd7042@reddit
The North American definition of a noodle is much broader than other English speaking countries.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/noodle
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noodle
Many pastas are noodles. Not every noodle is a pasta.
movienerd7042@reddit
So that link shows that there is a clear difference. And to be more specific any form of Italian pasta isn’t defined as a noodle outside of North America.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
Okay fine, let's just touch on your last point there.
What subreddit are you in?
movienerd7042@reddit
Ask An American. Where people ask questions to Americans. Op asked why Americans use a different word to other English speakers and this has resulted in you insisting that US English is inherently correct in this case.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
And it is inherently correct. "Some pasta is noodles, not all noodles are pasta" is a factually correct statement.
movienerd7042@reddit
It’s factually correct in US English
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
And since it's correct in one dialect it's correct in all of them when said as a statement in English.
Other dialects just don't use it the same way.
Context is key.
Some pastas are noodles. That's a true statement.
"Cars have bonnets."
"Well that's not true unless you speak this specific English, otherwise it's false."
movienerd7042@reddit
For example, if someone from the US says I’m wearing pants to work, that’s acceptable office attire. If someone from the U.K. says they’re wearing their pants to work that’s an HR violation.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
And since it's not a different language most Brits and most Americans know what the other one means when the other says pants.
Like how if someone asked me where the lift was, I'd know to point them to elevator. If I was in the UK and someone told me I was the first floor of a building I'd know I'm on the second storey. If a brit told me they had their jump leads in their boot I'd know they have jumper cables in the trunk.
Because I speak English and can understand other English speakers.
I'm not going to say "that's not a lift, it's an elevator you're wrong." Because im English a lift and an elevator are the same thing in the same context. Like how in context most commonly noodles that are served with a sauce tend to be pasta.
If they were confused I'd assume they're an idiot.
movienerd7042@reddit
You’re still acting like your US definition is universal. It isn’t.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
I didn't say it was universal. It's correct though.
movienerd7042@reddit
A correct US English statement. Being understood doesn’t make a word native. For example I speak an intermediate level of Italian but understanding that “bottiglia” means bottle in Italy that doesn’t make it a native word to me. To use an English example we both have very different definitions of the word pudding. For us it means dessert. We also refer to dinner as tea. Americans just mean the drink when they say tea and that doesn’t make either person incorrect.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
You're comparing apples and oranges by bringing in a different language.
US and UK English are the same language. A factual statement in English is a factual statement in English.
If a British person used pudding I'd know they were referring to dessert. Because I speak English.
And only some of you call it tea, that doesn't mean that it becomes false when talking to someone from a different part of your country that calls the evening meal something else.
I'm also educated enough to know that "tea" in a British context can refer to a shortening of "high tea", and I know that high tea was what I'd call dinner.
movienerd7042@reddit
If you asked an Australian what a thong was they’d say footwear. Are they wrong?
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
Why would they be wrong? A thong is a flip flop. It's also a type of under garment.
Like how some pastas are noodles.
As an example. I lived in Cambridge for 3 years. I never once changed the nomenclature I used. Stuck to what I'd normally use.
Nobody who was a native English speaker had a problem knowing what I was saying.
movienerd7042@reddit
What I’m saying is that different English speaking countries have different definitions of words. You seem to think that your definition is universally correct when really there’s no such thing.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
Again. It's not universally correct because other languages exist. But in English "some pastas are noodles" is a factual statement. Just like "some boots are footwear". "Some bonnets are headwear". "Some thongs are pants".
movienerd7042@reddit
It’s only a factual statement if you’re using US English.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
US English isn't a language. English is the language. In English it's true. If we want to break it down to specific dialects or regions it's a true statement in the largest English speaking population in the planet.
movienerd7042@reddit
English isn’t a monolith. It’s a pluricentric language. There isn’t one true dialect that’s more correct than others. It also isn’t the case that there’s some kind of majority rule going on where the country with the most speakers is the correct one.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
So we're back to the previous point of every dialect being correct. Meaning "some pastas are noodles" is a factual English statement.
Let's go back to the parent of the comment chain.
"Why do Americans call some pasta noodles?"
"Because that's what they are."
Some dumb ass: "I don't call them that so that's false."
movienerd7042@reddit
It isn’t a factual English statement in every dialect because pasta and noodles being defined as the same thing in some circumstances is only North American. Op was questioning why Americans do this and instead of giving any historical or cultural reason why North America differs from the rest of the English speaking world, the commenter basically replied “because it’s correct”.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
It's a factual English statement in English. There doesn't need to be a historical or cultural explanation.
Americans call some pastas noodles because that's what they are, and you said that's not true because your dialect doesn't call them that. But your dialect doesn't get to decide that. The language does.
movienerd7042@reddit
From what I’ve researched it isn’t just a case of “because that’s what it is”. The difference has occurred because of a high number of German immigrants in the US and the resulting spread of the German word “nudel”, which is defined as a more general term for any dough based food. Other English speaking countries didn’t have this German cultural influence so pasta and noodle were defined as separate categories.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
Honestly couldn't give a fuck and no American that isn't an etymologist is likely to either.
The entire English language is a German cultural influence.
Some Americans call refer to pasta as noodles because that's what they are. This isn't r/askamericanhistory.
movienerd7042@reddit
So you’ve gone from saying it’s a universal truth to being shown the genuine historical reason why the US specifically says this and responding with “I don’t give a fuck, I’m right because I’m right” ?
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
I haven't once said it's the universal truth.
I'm right because as a native English speaker I can say the English phrase "some pastas are noodles" and be factually correct. That's an inherently true statement in the English language.
You just don't understand that "dialects aren't their own language, they're just what words are more commonly used among different groups of the people who speak the same exact language".
By your logic "some thongs are a type of shoe" is false.
movienerd7042@reddit
Once again, what you’re missing is that English isn’t a pluricentric language where everything is correct in every dialect and there’s one right answer.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
Are things "more correct" to say when you speak a certain dialect? Yes. Does that make true statements false just because not everyone speaks the same dialect? Only if you're an idiot.
If you said "because that's what they are" if someone asked you why you call an elevator a lift it wouldn't be incorrect just because you didn't provide historical or cultural context or because it's called a hood in a different dialect.
I really don't understand what's so hard to understand about it.
Also don't understand what's so hard about putting all your thoughts into one single reply at a time.
movienerd7042@reddit
The commenter asked why there’s a difference. You refused to answer and instead said that the US is correct. I pointed out that you’re only right in your own dialect which is why the person was asking.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
No, someone else said "because that's what they are". You said "no because we don't call them that".
And I'm saying some pastas are noodles. Because that's true.
movienerd7042@reddit
Saying “because it’s true” very clearly implies “we’re right and everyone else is wrong”.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
I didn't imply anything. You inferred an implication. I said it's true because it's true. According to the overall encompassing English language, it is true.
movienerd7042@reddit
As an example if you asked me why English people called dinner tea and instead of discussing the actual history I said “because it means dinner” wouldn’t you think that was a silly answer?
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
I'd shrug and say "good enough answer for me, if that's what you call it then that's what you call it."
You'll also have to point out other than the title where OP asked why. Otherwise they asked how we know if someone is talking about Asian style noodles or traditional Italian pasta.
The answer to that one is "because we just do".
movienerd7042@reddit
The question is in the title
movienerd7042@reddit
There isn’t an overarching English language. It’s a pluricentric language, one dialect’s rules don’t go above another and there isn’t a universal form of English.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
There is an acerarching English language. There has to be an English language or the dialects wouldn't exist.
In English it is true that some pastas are noodles. But someone from the UK is going to call a plate of spaghetti pasta and not noodles, while an American will call it either. Neither is likely to refer to farfalle or "bow tie" pasta as noodles though.
movienerd7042@reddit
It’s pluricentric. British English was obviously the historical origin point but now there’s no one dialect of English which is the overarching one.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
I'm saying that in the English language it is correct to say "some pastas are noodles".
You're just not calling them noodles in the UK. Just like we're not calling them lifts in America.
movienerd7042@reddit
But it’s incorrect to say that any regional variation is inherently correct in “the English language”
movienerd7042@reddit
Then when I told you the actual historical reason you threw a tantrum.
movienerd7042@reddit
What you can’t seem to accept is that noodles and pasta being the same in some cases is only a fact in North American English. The commenter asked why this is the case and you essentially replied “because we’re right.”
movienerd7042@reddit
When it’s unique to your culture it absolutely can be explained to people outside of that culture. There’s probably an interesting historical reason why two English speaking dialects differ from the rest but instead of looking into that, you’ve chosen to respond with “because we’re correct”.
movienerd7042@reddit
An example of what I’m trying to demonstrate. If you asked an American what tea meant they would define it as a drink. If you asked someone British they would say it can be a drink or it can be the evening meal. Those are two different definitions and neither one is wrong, it’s just a different dialect.
movienerd7042@reddit
First of all high tea hasn’t existed in hundreds of years. You’re probably thinking of afternoon tea. Second of all I’m pointing out that words can mean different things in different countries even when they speak the same language.
movienerd7042@reddit
If you went to the U.K. and acted like someone was an idiot for not knowing that Americans call pasta noodles you’d be considered a pretty rude tourist
movienerd7042@reddit
If it’s correct in one dialect it’s correct in that dialect. Different dialects use different definitions.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
If it's correct in a dialect then it's correct in the language.
If I went to the UK and told your average someone I was serving them noodles and sauce if they came over for dinner they'd understand it because they speak English. They'd probably even ask what kind because they understood it so well.
movienerd7042@reddit
Even if they did understand you they would do the mental translation of “this person is American so they might mean pasta” and would probably ask you whether you meant pasta or our definition of noodles.
movienerd7042@reddit
They’d be confused and expecting Asian noodles
movienerd7042@reddit
You think that hundreds of millions of people across multiple countries aren’t simply speaking a different dialect with different definitions but are all collectively incorrect?
movienerd7042@reddit
This definition has specific seperate categories for US and U.K. definitions: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/noodle
movienerd7042@reddit
They aren’t considered noodles in UK English. Different dialects use different terms.
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
Again, it's more common to say pasta instead of noodles. But they're still noodles. Not calling something by a name doesn't mean it isn't that.
I'm not calling you dense, but.
movienerd7042@reddit
You’re using US definitions and acting like they’re universal.
Ok-Energy-9785@reddit
It's almost like the world isn't limited to the UK.
movienerd7042@reddit
I never said it was. I’m just saying that in my experience I’ve only ever heard Americans call pasta noodles
Ok-Energy-9785@reddit
Okay
OutrageousPair2300@reddit
As you can tell from the comments, I think this is a regional thing even within the US.
I have never heard anybody refer to pasta as "noodles" -- the term "noodles" exclusively refers to actual noodles.
I do know there are parts of the US where people do indeed refer to certain pastas as "noodles" but I can't tell you where those parts are, as I've never lived there.
iowanaquarist@reddit
"actual noodles" are pasta, though. If it's rice noodles, udon noodles, gluten free noodles, etc, it's specified. If someone just says "noodle" it's referring to a pasta noodle...
OutrageousPair2300@reddit
That's not my experience at all. If somebody refers to just "noodles" it is always rice noodles, udon noodles, etc. and never pasta.
The only time I've ever heard a kind of pasta referred to as "noodles" it's spaghetti, but even there it's always "spaghetti noodles" and never just "noodles."
As I said, I think this is a regional difference even within the US.
iowanaquarist@reddit
I've never ever heard udon, ramen, rice etc referred to as just noodles, though. There is always a modifier. I've frequently heard of spaghetti, linguine, macaroni elbows, penne, etc referred to as noodles, without a modifier.
OutrageousPair2300@reddit
Yes, it's a regional thing. I'm assuming you're from Iowa?
I grew up in NJ, and you would probably be kicked out of any Italian restaurant in the state if you referred to penne as "noodles" :)
TooManyDraculas@reddit
That's just Italians getting offended that anyone is speaking anything but Italian.
And for NJ purposes, garbage mouth Italian that no Italian would recognize.
It's also pretty recent. This a community that translated "sugo" as "gravy".
iowanaquarist@reddit
It's always so weird of uptight Italians get about food. I could understand being uptight if we were talking in Italian, but it's bizarre getting mad at an entire language like that.
TooManyDraculas@reddit
A lot of people who will say this. Will turn around and refer to a singular piece of spaghetti as a noodle, or some such other usage. Like trying to explain what pasta even is, or describing a particular shape, or comparing it to some non-pasta thing. Like if your explaining how to make fresh pasta. You wouldn't say "separate the pastas on a plate, and dust the pastas with flour". That's what the word "noodle" is for.
Then there are things that are not pasta, and not Asian. Like egg noodles.
Very few people in the US would say "I'm making noodles" to refer to making a plate of Bolognese. But usage of "noodle" to refer to the physical thing is pretty default, since that's what it means.
Few_Mention8426@reddit (OP)
i think its because I watch a lot of cooking youtube videos, and thats where I mostly hear spaghetti etc called noodles.
OutrageousPair2300@reddit
Oh good point, I do sometimes hear people refer to spaghetti as "spaghetti noodles."
Never as just "noodles" though.
DarthKnah@reddit
In US English (I don’t know for other dialects) a long piece of food paste shaped into a ribbon/tube/string is a noodle, regardless of which culture it comes from (so spaghetti, penne, various Asian noodles). We sometimes also apply it to things that are made of similar paste but are not ribbon/tube shaped (like German spaetzle, or non-tube/ribbon Italian pastas). So for us, noodle is either a shape (tube/ribbon/string) or a large category that includes pasta and pasta equivalents from other cultures (like Asian cultures).
I usually refer to pasta as pasta (or by the particular shape), unless it’s in the context of chicken noodle soup or butter noodles (usually penne) for a child, both of which are rather divorced from Italian gastronomy.
I don’t watch cooking videos on YouTube, so I don’t quite know what you’re talking about. I agree that if a recipe just calls for noodles that is too vague, and I wouldn’t expect that. However, usually it’s pretty obvious which culture a dish is coming from, so there’s not too much room for confusion. I would expect an actual formal recipe book to specify a type of noodle, however.
TooManyDraculas@reddit
The noodles in chicken noodle soup are not "pasta' per say. As they're not a version of an Italian pasta.
They're various version of egg noodles, an American noodle derived from central European dishes. Including spätzle, certain types of polish kluski, but mainly Ashkenazi lokshen.
They were introduced by Jewish immigrants and Pennsylvania Dutch communities. Narrow ones are still referred to as Kluski in Penn Dutch and Amish areas.
TumbleFairbottom@reddit
Noodle is the English word for it.
Next you’ll ask why we don’t use the Italian word bicicletta instead of bicycle.
TooManyDraculas@reddit
Yeah.
My family members in Ireland who over about 60ish. Use noodle the same way we do in the US, and generally have no issue understanding this.
I gather that it's fallen out of fashion in other dialects, somewhat particularly in the UK.
But this whole "no, noodle only means Asian foods" thing very much seems to be rooted in the internet age or UK food media. I don't remember ever hearing before about 2010.
rawbface@reddit
"Noodle" and "Pasta" are not mutually exclusive.
Lo mein is a noodle but not pasta.
Macaroni is pasta but not a noodle.
Spaghetti is both pasta and a noodle.
"Noodle" just describes the shape.
Few_Mention8426@reddit (OP)
but ive also heard lasagna sheets called noodles...
(this is on youtube cooking videos though... so maybe not the most representitive)
TooManyDraculas@reddit
It's a long thin strip of dough.
That's the current usage. It's a noodle. Being very wide doesn't factor into it.
Originally the word didn't make a distinction between that, and what we'd more usually call a dumpling. And that still crosses over in certain cases. You might describe spätzle as either a noodle or a dumpling.
Currently Italian usage of "Pasta" still doesn't make the distinction. So gnocchi and ravioli, both pasta. But in English we wouldn't call those noodles, often describe them as dumplings, and they still always pasta.
Asian languages always made the distinction, and culinary systems there don't tend to consider them the same sorts of food.
semisubterranean@reddit
Yes, to Americans, lasagna is a type of noodle, just as in German die Lasagne is a Nudelsorten. Both British English and American English borrowed the word noodle from German in the 18th century after the dialects had already split. In Britain, the German term came to be used with a more restrictive definition than it has in German. In America, the word retained its broader original meaning.
This isn't that different from other American borrowings from German, like kindergarten instead of nursery school, except in this case the British also adopted the German word independently but with a slightly different meaning.
Athrynne@reddit
It's a regionalism. The US has regional dialects that have vocabulary differences. An ex of mine from Virginia called all tortillas "shells" (as in taco shells.)
rawbface@reddit
I have to say, as a lifelong New Jerseyan, there is no one with less pasta credibility to me than some random youtuber.
Pinwurm@reddit
Gnocchi aren't technically pasta, they're a potato dumpling.
rawbface@reddit
Again, not mutually exclusive... You will not convince me that ravioli are not pasta. I'd bat for tortellini too. None of which are noodles.
But for more pure examples - polenta, shells, and bowties are all pasta but not noodles.
Theycallmesupa@reddit
Those are pasta dumplings. Pierogie, too.
byte_handle@reddit
"Nudeln in german is the only similar term I can find"
Bingo. That's it right there.
English is a Germanic language. It evolved from the same former Western Germanic precursor that modern high German uses.
The same word in other Germanic languages (albeit Northern Germanic, not Western):
Danish - Nudel
Dutch - Noedel
Norwegian - Nudler
Swedish - Nudel
movienerd7042@reddit
In British English pasta and noodles are different things
thejadsel@reddit
Britain also didn't get huge numbers of German-speaking immigrants over the past several hundred years, with the linguistic influence to go along with that. That's one of the usages US English speakers snagged straight from German.
movienerd7042@reddit
Ok. That’s a good explanation. That’s all op was asking for. I was just pointing out that non all English speakers use pasta and noodles interchangeably.
ballroombritz@reddit
It’s usually obvious from context
InevitableRhubarb232@reddit
Your lo mein doesn’t call for spaghetti?
iowanaquarist@reddit
Not for the last few decades. It used to -- mostly because when you have tiny grocery stores in an area with relatively few Asians, and many, many of European descent, selections are limited, and substitutions had to be made. Even today, 'pasta' takes up half an aisle at most grocery stores around here -- and all the non-pasta noodles are scattered through the whole store, and take up a fraction of the space.
Fairly recently the population has grown enough in volume and diverse tastes that there is a lot more choices at the stores -- and we now have a couple of international/Asian stores.
When I hear about 15 minute cities, I always wonder if the proponents even understand the economics of running a grocery store in most of America with only the amount of people that live within 15 minutes walking distance...
ballroombritz@reddit
Usually I put in some rigatoni and hope for the best
TooManyDraculas@reddit
Because "noodle" is th English word referring to the sort of thing that both Pasta and those Asian noodles are.
A catch all.
Pasta refers to Italian foods, and is an Italian word. And "noodle" is not the "actual" word for the Asian foods. Which mostly tends to be derivatives of the Chinese "men/mein". But varies a lot by language.
The word entered English via the German Nodel/Nudel in the 18th century, but that was already cognate with an Old English word for these foods that had fallen out of usage by then. And as far as I'm aware that happened in Europe. Before there was any significant German immigration to the US.
And it originally referred to all dumplings and long pasta-ish things. So this was the word in modern English that meant these foods. And was applied to pasta, foods like spätzle, and Asian noodles from the start.
This just fell out of fashion in British English sometime more recently. And the assumption that "noodle" only refers to Asian foods seems even more recent. Like last few decades recent. I know older people in the UK and Ireland that use noodle the same way I do, if not as frequently.
This is a bit like asking why we say "dog" when the actual name is "poodle". Noodle is the overall category, pasta is specifically Italian ones.
The tendency to always, and only refer to Italian noodles as "pasta" in English, is modern Italian influence. Likely rolling out of post WWII efforts by Italians to use food, and food proscription as a national identity marker and for marketing purposes.
AfterAllBeesYears@reddit
Because when I order Pad See Ew from a Thai place, it's under "Noodles," not "Pasta"
Pasta is a noodle, not all noodles are pasta
Doyle_Macintosh@reddit
When I was growing up I use to consider ever single noodle based dish pasta even the Asian related ones, and I hardly ever said noodles when eating that dish it was always just pasta to me then I went to my first Chinese restaurant and I had called the chow mein that was being served there pasta chow and I got looked at very funny because it is considered chow mein in some east Asian cultures and depending on the Asian country they're all pronounced differently based on the culture so I learned about that growing up and stopped calling every carb based noodle dish pasta.
thejadsel@reddit
That would be because American English directly borrowed the usage from the large number of German immigrants--along with a number of other words and phrases not used the same way, if at all, in Britain. "Nudel" can also still be used to refer to the whole category of foods in contemporary German. While you can get Asian pastas in Italy.
That whole linked thread is very relevant, btw!
IBelongHere@reddit
It’s the same here as in Europe
samandtoast@reddit
"Noodle" is an American word. It is derived from a German word and means the same thing as "pasta". It is weird that Europeans use an American word for Asian noodles, but not other types. Do they only use the Italian word for Italian noodles, and noodles from any other part of the world get the American word?
And, so many Americans buy into the Eurocentrism and use the word the way they do. It's ridiculous.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
Pasta is a type of noodle.
jglenn9k@reddit
Yea, this is my take. Rotini is only a pasta. Linguine is a noodle and a pasta. Udon is only a noodle.
If you want to call Rotini a noodle or Udon a pasta, I'm not gonna argue but it feels super wrong.
Rockfell3351@reddit
They don't have to be long. No Yolks are noodles and they're relatively short.
rinky79@reddit
All pasta is noodles. Not all noodles are pasta.
wwhsd@reddit
It’s more like a Venn diagram with a lot of overlap. Gnocchi and Ravioli are both pasta but neither are noodles.
cwcam86@reddit
Because they are? All pasta/noodles are the same regardless of what they're calling.
movienerd7042@reddit
Only in US English
HardyMenace@reddit
Oh look, another "Americans do everything wrong, why are Americans so stupid" post. How original.
Few_Mention8426@reddit (OP)
no, its a genuine question about language and the origins of words. Its clear I was talking linguistically.
HardyMenace@reddit
You literally said that Europe does it the right way by calling it pasta.
Athrynne@reddit
Macaroni has entered the chat.
AlmiranteCrujido@reddit
Noodles are the category.
Pasta is the subcategory of wheat noodles in an Italian style.
So, all pasta are noodles but you'd normally be more specific.
You'd also probably call pasta a specific name; "I'm having pasta" is far less helpful than "I'm having spaghetti" or "I'm having ravioli" or whatever.
Udon/ramen are also noodles, but saying "udon noodles" seems redundant in most cases, unless you really need to separate "the noodles in a cooked batch of udon" from "the dish including udon and broth"
Just calling it noodles almost always has a modifier, which usually means there is an original name it just didn't get borrowed by English, e.g. "rice noodles" or "egg noodles" (the big flat ones you'd have with butter as a side for pot roast)
The same Germanic root; whether directly from German or not, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noodle
Kielbasa_Nunchucka@reddit
if a recipe just says "noodles," I assume it means the ribbony egg noodles. everything else calls out the specific type by name (there are sooo many different Itailan noodles alone)
cerevisiae_@reddit
Why? Because we had a sizable German immigrant population (from which we get the word noodle) before we had a sizable Italian immigrant population.
Pasta is a subset of noodles, and it’s only used in reference to Italian food. Spaghetti is a type of noodle. It’s also pasta. A square is a rectangle. A rectangle isn’t a square.
How do we avoid making a mistake? By having enough cultural exposure to not put soy in my spaghetti and bolognese in my lo mein
Astronaut6735@reddit
Like most answers in AskAnAmerican, it depends on who you ask and what region they're from. We are not a homogeneous culture. To some Americans, noodle means is any noodle-like thing made of flour, shaped, and boiled. In their minds, pasta is just a specific type of noodle. E.g. you often hear them called "lasagna noodles". This is probably more likely in rural areas, or maybe among older people.
PM_Me_UrRightNipple@reddit
Noodle is a category of food that encompasses things like pasta and udon. Similar to how bread is a category that encompasses things like a loaf of sourdough or matzah
If a recipe was vague and just called for noodles I’d use context clues to figure out what kind of noodles to use.
A dish that involves tomato sauce and cheese? My educated guess would be a pasta noodle
A dish that involves soy sauce and sesame seeds? My educated guess would be a udon noodle.
m_leo89@reddit
🧌
kjlsdjfskjldelfjls@reddit
I've never heard pasta referred to as 'noodles'. Only Asian food
MonkeyVine7@reddit
Noodles is an umbrella term. Pasta dishes contain noodles, Ramen contains noodles, pad thai contains noodles. They are all different noodles prepared differently, but still noodles.
So if someone says noodles, they are using a more general term. Saying pasta is slightly more specific. And saying spaghetti is even more specific. Just depends on the context and how specific a person chooses to be.
Vanilla_thundr@reddit
Why do people in Europe call chicken sandwiches "chicken burgers"?
It's not technically wrong, but it sounds weird to me as an American.
Maybe people just use different words than you do and that's ok?
notthegoatseguy@reddit
Language evolves as it travels the world and is used.
Worth noting the United States is not in Europe, but is rather in North America. So its language has evolved beyond whatever goes on in Europe.
Few_Mention8426@reddit (OP)
i apolagise for being a random foreigner :)
samandtoast@reddit
"Noodle" is derived from the German word. It is an American word for the small pieces or thin strips of boiled dough that Italians call pasta.
Bluemonogi@reddit
I have never used a recipe that just said pasta or noodles instead of the specific type.
All pasta is a type of noodle.
Curmudgy@reddit
I’m sure there was some Jewish (hence Yiddish, and hence German) influence. Chicken noodle soup and noodle kugel are often made with items that some people would call pasta.
But the reality is that the English language doesn’t have an official arbiter capable of enforcing usages and distinctions among everyday words. I’ve learned not to get upset when people use “sweet” as an adjective to modify something that has nothing to do with food or what the tongue tastes.
Individual_Success46@reddit
Absolutely never. Pasta is pasta. Italian pasta being referred to as a noodle makes my skin crawl.
TheClayDart@reddit
Ah yes, let me go to my favorite ramen joint and ask for a steaming bowl of tonkatsu pasta
Tillandz@reddit
ITT: people from the Midwest. My girlfriend does this all the time, and she's from Ohio, and it drives me nuts. Spaghetti is spaghetti; not noodles. Noodles are served with beef stroganoff, and udon or lo mein. In NY or NJ, saying noodles to describe any sort of pasta would get you weird looks.
Salarian_American@reddit
I was thoroughly unprepared when I moved to Long Island and discovered how many people of Italian descent in that region refer to literally any kind of pasta as "macaroni."
Like I'm talking grandmas who made their own pasta from scratch by hand, calling it macaroni no matter what shape it was in.
So I guess the answer, as it often is in the US, is "depends on where you live."
SwitchWitchLolita@reddit
Pasta is a noodle because it gets all noodle-y when cooked.
Donald_J_Duck65@reddit
I dont, they are two different things.
Eggsbennybb@reddit
It’s a huge problem. It’s actually incredible that we’ve survived this long as a country. Every time I go to an Italian restaurant I get served chow mein. When I order takeout from the Chinese place down the street, I’m always shocked to open up my box to find a big heaping portion of spaghetti. Linguistically, Americans are just lightyears behind Europeans, we have no way to effectively communicate what we want. I hope your post brings awareness.
Dorianscale@reddit
I would call any flour and egg mixture derived from the Italian method as Pasta. Even if the overall dish is not Italian.
If it uses a different type of flour I’d use a different term.
Noodle can refer to some types of pasta, and many Asian varieties. I’d use it for anything long and stringlike. Soba, Lo Mein, Spaghetti, rice noodles, etc. If the same dough is used for noodles and some type of dumpling for example i wouldn’t refer to the dumpling as a noodle because it isn’t the right shape.
Il_Will@reddit
There is pasta in chicken noodle soup
MediumKoala8823@reddit
You’re probably thinking of “egg noodles” as the common archetype where noodles is used in western cooking terminology vs pasta.
gearpitch@reddit
In american English, noodles can mean both. You can be specific and say pasta, or just say noodles. Some people still care about the difference, many people don't really.
Different dialects have different words and definitions, that's what language is. Many Australians call all sandwiches that have a bun a "burger", when Americans would clearly say that only ground meat patties are burgers, and that burger has nothing to do with the bun. Aussies definition of burger shifted and expanded, as all language does in various ways when we use it day to day.
brzantium@reddit
"Noodles" is a broad category that pasta falls under. A recipe only listing noodles as an ingredient is like a recipe just listing meat as an ingredient.
HisTreeNut@reddit
Noodles (or pasta) is a generic term like the word "car." You can have a compact car, sub-compact car, SUV, pickup truck, sports car, luxury car, etc, etc...
Noodles (or pasta) is used in the US, depending on the region. Most recipes list the specific kind needed.
That being said, I will often use whatever pasta I have on hand when cooking instead of the specific one listed in the recipe. A lot of people do that as well.
iowanaquarist@reddit
"actual noodles" are all pasta...
chameleonsEverywhere@reddit
What's the word you use for the supercategory that includes both Italian-style pastas and Asian-style noodles? Do you have a word for that?
Growing up, "noodle" meant any long, slurpable, boiled dough foodstuffs. "Pasta" is the Italian-style food, I think our definitions match there.
So based on how I've heard the words used:
- long pasta shapes like Spaghetti or Fettuccine are both a noodle and a pasta.
Shorter shapes like Rigatoni or Ziti are a pasta but I wouldn't usually call them noodles. I wouldn't balk if someone else called these noodles though.
Udon or Soba or Glass noodles are all noodles, but not pasta.
mundotaku@reddit
Mainly I call pasta every noodle that is Italian or of Italian origin.
parsonsrazersupport@reddit
If I say it's snowing out, do you complain that I didn't say what the average density of the snow particles are, just because you speak another language which would mark that automatically? No, people understand that different details matter to different speakers, and if you need more detail you can just ask for it. Why would it ever be essential to know what kind of wet grain strip someone is eating at the first word on the topic?
Avery_Thorn@reddit
In the USA:
Noodle is the generic term.
Pasta is only used for Italian foods. Spaghetti, Ravioli, shells, macaroni, penne, rigatoni, elbows, and so on. Note that the Italian names for these shapes are often used, without translation.
Noodles are everything else. We would call Egg Spatzel a noodle dish. Egg noodles are noodles. All Asian noodles are noodles - Udon, Soba, rice noodles, ect. Even when they are made in the same shape as Italian Pasta.
Oddly enough, Italian Fettuccini is a pasta, Korean Fettuccini is a noodle. As a sign of respect to the original cultures. Even though they are very, very similar. Asian Spaghetti is a noodle. Italian Spaghetti is a pasta.
The type of noodle would be stated for the recipie, if it matters. Making a plate of Pasta with Marinara sauce with egg noodles would be... disturbing.
HegemonNYC@reddit
Noodle is the entire category. Pasta is a regional variety of noodle. As is mien, rice stick, udon, soba etc.
FriendlyEngineer@reddit
You know I never thought of it but yeah.
In my mind Lo Mein is not a pasta dish, but it does have noodles.
While spaghetti and tomato sauce is a pasta dish.
MaximumDerekCat@reddit
Anybody else suffering from serious semantic satiation of the word "noodle", after reading through this convo?
davidm2232@reddit
Pasta is wheat flour based. Noodles are rice flour based. Totally different foods.
Ana_Na_Moose@reddit
If the word is “nudeln” in German as you say, I would hazard to guess that the word “noodle” probably developed from that?
If you are actually looking for the reason why North Americans often use the words pasta and noodle interchangeably, this is probably the wrong sub to ask about it in.
Try r/linguistics or r/etymology or one of the other similar subs that deal more in the study of the evolution of language.
But in general, the type of noodle is usually pretty obvious in a recipe. Even if not explicitly, then implicitly. For example, if you are making lo mein, do you think that rotini would really be recommended? Would you even think to serve ramen with Chicken Parmesan? Would it be necessary to specify that you should not use spaghetti in making Italian Wedding Soup?
TheStrigori@reddit
They literally are noodles. Context will narrow down which type. And menus or recipes will get specific. Having a variety of things under a larger grouping doesn't generally bother us
judgingA-holes@reddit
Usually there's some kind of context in there it's not just like "oh we're having noodles tonight". It more like: We're having rigatoni, pick up some noodles. We're having ramen, pick up some noodles. We wouldn't be eating pasta and say we're eating noodles. Like if we ate spaghetti the night before we wouldn't say "Oh we ate noodles last night." we would just simply say "We ate spaghetti last night". And recipes always have what type of noodles to use.
nach0_kat@reddit
Maybe this is a regional thing but I have never referred to pasta as noodles. If I say noodles, I'm talking about one of the Asian ones like ramen or the thick ones in pho. Pasta is always pasta.
Aggressive_Economy_8@reddit
The United States is a huge, diverse country. Making generalizations about anything we do is stupid and reductive. Something someone says in Minnesota is probably not the same thing they would say in NY City. Hell, different parts of NY probably have specific regional dialects.
In short, these types of questions are dumb.
PossibleAtmosphere44@reddit
Is this sub just Europeans asking Americans why they do things they don’t actually do?
jsmeeker@reddit
depends on the recipe, really. Is it an "Italian" dish? then it will be some pasta shape. Is it Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc? Use the type of noodle called for. Is it something else? I just try to use what the recipe calls for.
___coolcoolcool@reddit
Wait, so are egg noodles pasta or noodles to you?
MaximumDerekCat@reddit
Noodles
Sample-quantity@reddit
I would not call anything noodles except egg noodles or maybe ramen. Spaghetti or fettuccine are not noodles.
hobokobo1028@reddit
Who is this question for? I call pasta “macaroni” or “bow tie” or “spiral” or “ravioli” or “lasagna” or “mostaccoli” or “tortellini” or “manicotti” ……
unless it’s a noodle but even then it’s “spaghetti” “angel hair” or “egg noodle” or “chow mein” or “ramen”
CountChoculasGhost@reddit
The English word “noodle” did originate from the German word “Nudel”.
I think Americans mix and match “noodle” and “pasta” pretty frequently though.
To me, the dish is “pasta”. Spaghetti is a “pasta dish”.
But a single spaghetti is a “spaghetti noodle”.
BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy@reddit
Everyone says the exact same things in all of Europe? I assume Balkan or Baltic countries might not.
CalmRip@reddit
In American English, "noodle" is a generic term for a flexible, soft-cooked dough product.
Pasta is usually referred to by the shape name, like linguine, not the generic "noodle."
Type of noodle is defined by context: if it's typical American recipe, "noodles" means egg noodles. Recipes for Asian dishes, if they use the generic term noodle, will usually use a modifier like soba or pad (pad thai, pad see ew, etc).
mads_61@reddit
I don’t typically. I usually refer to pasta by their shape and noodle more generally to describe any type of noodle.
If I’m talking about noodles in a stir fry or soup I’m also usually specifying what type of noodle I’m referring to
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Noodles is the more general term in American English (as in pasta is a subcategory of noodle).
Like you, though, I use “pasta” for Italian-style noodles/dishes and “noodles” for other types of cuisine.
manicpixidreamgirl04@reddit
I would look at the context, but typically, 'noodles' means ramen style noodles. However, it doesn't sound wrong to say 'spaghetti noodles' or 'fettuccini noodles'.
rinky79@reddit
Chicken noodle soup has entered the chat.
FiendishCurry@reddit
We call them noodles when the packaging says noodle. Ramen noodles, Chicken noodle soup, Bowl of noodles, egg noodles. Some people may refer to pasta as noodles like 'spaghetti noodles', but no one is confused if you just say spaghetti. In a grocery store, the pasta section says pasta, not noodles.
WowsrsBowsrsTrousrs@reddit
Not all pasta is noodles. Noodles generally applies to 2 categories: non-Italian such as ramen, and flat egg noodles. Italian pasta is usually not referred to as noodles, but rather by the name of the shape or just as pasta, for example, spaghetti, farfalle/bowties, macaroni, linguini.
AdelleDeWitt@reddit
Pasta is a kind of noodle. You then have to be more specific. It's like how there's lots of kinds of meat but then you could be more specific by saying what kind you're talking about.
Kinetic_Silverwolf@reddit
I've lived in Alabama, Florida, Ohio, Texas, and Virginia. In casual conversation about food, noodles have generally referred to any form of long, straight food product that becomes pliable when cooked are "noodles".
Spaghetti noodles. Ramen noodles. The noodles at Panda Express, etc. All are noodles.
Pasta is generally the catch-all term for "I mostly want Italian or something similar". It could mean spaghetti, or linguini, or penne, or maybe even sometimes macaroni.
But spaghetti gets special crossover status as, often, the default mental image for both pasta AND noodles. At least for me.
MagicPlayer666@reddit
Nobody here calls pasta “noodles”
doublenostril@reddit
Because of nudel! See Noun 2.1: Merriam-Webster's definition of "noodle" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noodle
Nearly 5% of Americans have only German ancestry, while 12% have German ancestry combined with another ancestry: Merriam-Webster's definition of "noodle" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noodle. “Noodle” is a loan word into American English from German immigrants.
G00dSh0tJans0n@reddit
If not noodle, then why noodle shaped?
quietfangirl@reddit
Not all pasta is noodles and not all noodles are pasta. It's about the shape. If it's a tube, or was a tube before getting cut up into smaller pieces, it's a noodle. If it's not, it's just pasta. Spaghetti is noodles, lasagna is not. Macaroni is noodles, farfalle is not. Does that make sense?
laurcone@reddit
The only pasta I would call noodles is spaghetti
nope-its@reddit
Where I live noodles are for Asian food and pasta is used for Italian.
A recipe uses the specific type: ziti, macaroni, udon, etc. The recipe won’t just say “noodles”
madogvelkor@reddit
Usually we would specify what type of pasta or noodles we mean. Pasta is usually used to mean Italian noodles in general, but even then we have to specify which kind. Spaghetti, penne, linguine, farfalle, macaroni, etc.
We cook Asian noodle dishes less often, and the most popular is ramen. The noodles also seem to be very different in ingredients rather than just size or shape so we'll call them by their actual name.
Bvvitched@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noodle?wprov=sfti1#
Angrywheezer@reddit
Most recipes I've run across that call for noodles are referring to egg noodles.
PeppyQuotient57@reddit
If it’s a recipe it will refer to its shape or name. You can also just use critical thinking and realize that carbonara isn’t going to have udon or rice noodles unless it’s a fusion recipe; in which case it will be very clear what ingredients you’re using.
Deolater@reddit
In which European countries, in what languages?
In English, noodles are pasta, and pasta is often noodles
See for instance the Oxford Learner's Dictionary
OptimisticPlatypus@reddit
Noodles is a general term and is most commonly used on menus when referring to kids dishes or Asian dishes.
Pasta is the general term with most people referring to the specific type in a specific dish.
The12th_secret_spice@reddit
I just pull context out of the text. Dish name, ingredients, cooking style, etc. usually you can figure out what they are making/using.
Crazy-Squash9008@reddit
Pasta is noodles.
saberlight81@reddit
If not noodles why noodle shaped?
I think the default assumption people without an Asian immigrant background make is that "noodles" without context usually refers to spaghetti. Or at least that context always makes it clear what kind of noodles you're talking about. Or that if you are talking about Asian noodles you always specify the type.
Mobile-Minute9357@reddit
Why do you call spaghetti nudies or whatever
Wunktacular@reddit
Pasta is a specific type of noodle made from durum.
c8bb8ge@reddit
If there's a need for a certain type of noodle, the type of noodle will be specified. "Noodles are always udon noodles or rice noodles etc.", "pasta is... refered to by its shape".
Weary-Astronaut1335@reddit
Because most recipes tell you what type to use. There's more than one type of noodles.
You use context to figure it out if someone is talking about having noodles and sauce.
Probably not making rice noodles and bolognese, probably not eating spaghetti with pho.
rawbface@reddit
All noodles are pasta, not all pasta are noodles. Spaghetti is in fact a noodle. "Noodle" just describes the shape.
ajfoscu@reddit
As an American of Italian decent I’d be afraid my Nonna would slap me if I called spaghetti “noodles”.
PhilTheThrill1808@reddit
Can’t speak for the whole country but I usually call both of those distinctive foods by their respective names. Crazy American shit, right?
Due_Satisfaction2167@reddit
Different dialects often have slightly different definitions or meanings of words in common usage.
emmasdad01@reddit
Generally, we don’t
ihatejerries@reddit
We don't? Maybe some people do. But the type of noodle/pasta is also specified by type and shape.
killingourbraincells@reddit
If it's a slurper, it's a noodle.