Disabled personal conveyance
Posted by MarmotWorldOrder@reddit | Truckers | View on Reddit | 41 comments
I'll start with taking accountability for breaking company policy. I used PC to leave from a terminal, go to Walmart, and come straight back. I went over the daily PC allowance by 1.2 miles. The daily allowance is 25 miles. This is the third time I have been to this same Walmart from the same terminal without prior issue. I was informed I would lose access to PC for 90 days due to safety cracking down on PC abuse. Aside from the correct advice that I should be planning by exit, am I being unreasonable that going over by 1.2 miles without advancing a load or making myself ready for a load isn't a big deal?
jmzstl@reddit
They ought to be providing a company car at their terminals with a PC restriction like that.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
Some do. Most don't.
forkystabbyveggie@reddit
They're enforcing the limit more strictly due to higher fuel costs. Ultimately you need access to groceries but plan it more intelligently by hitting Walmarts near the interstate while you're working.
Take the 90 days on the chin and don't break the mileage limit while you're working there.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
You're right. It's just frustrating after they told me in the same call I ran over 10k miles last month. In comparison, it just seems like a non issue.
ImaginaryCatDreams@reddit
When you're get a CSA points, let me know how non-issue that is.
PC is a wonderful gift unfortunately most drivers abuse it.
There are companies that don't allow the use of it. There are others that require you to call safety before you can use it.
A friend of mine lost his job because he used it regularly. He kept claiming he ran out of time and needed it to find safe haven. His company pointed out that he was under a load and went by half a dozen truck stops the last hour he drove.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
Why would I receive CSA points for going to Walmart while bobtailing?
ImaginaryCatDreams@reddit
If the officer decides you're in violation and write you a ticket you get the CSA points. CSA oftentimes will go on your record even if the ticket is dismissed.
Also if you're outside of what your carrier allows for PC, you could be fired.
I'm a better safe than sorry kind of guy, you feel free to take any risk that you want to, enjoy the consequences if they occur
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
So at what point is PC use safe if not when off duty, bobtailing, and not under a load?
forkystabbyveggie@reddit
Yeah it sounds like they're giving you solid miles, I'd personally try to comply. My company uses a 1hr usage limit instead of miles but they probably save in some different way compared to your employer.
Each of these companies have their fickle rules, but if you're making good money just find a way to deal with it
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
You're right. It's been a bit of a rough week so I think I'm just making this more than it is.
Dogs-n-Flowers@reddit
This. As an owner operator who paid for my own fuel and was stuck at a Kroger DC in Memphis for three and a half days one time, I calculated the fuel cost to drive to a truck stop outside of Memphis in order to get a shower and food. Ultimately I ate the cost because it was worth it to me as a person, not just as a driver and owner operator, but imagine if you've got a fleet of 200 trucks and half your drivers burn an extra gallon or two of fuel using PC beyond the company stated limit.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
This same company recently dead headed me over 500 miles to move me towards freight.
Dual-use@reddit
Sounds like a shit carrier. PC has no federal mileage limit
ImaginaryCatDreams@reddit
PC is so open to interpretation by DOT officers that you need to be extremely careful with its use.
Most carriers that allow it have either a mileage or a time limit.
Some companies require you to phone safety before using it, there are carriers that will not allow you to use PC.
As for changing carriers, better the s*** show you know than the one you're about to head into
Dual-use@reddit
Nobody has ever questioned my (admittedly rare) PC use. Not my carrier or DOT. The rules are pretty clear and officers will probably not write you a ticket for something that is easily proven.
I for one could never deal with this micromanaging. The office GPS tracks the truck and there is a dashcam doesnt record audio facing outside. If anyone ever called me to talk about 1 mile of PC use I would laugh and hang up.
Stand up for yourself. Be professional. Work with professionals.
ImaginaryCatDreams@reddit
I'm glad to know what you think, you're wrong. Friend of mine lost his job over a ticket from the dot for misuse of PC.
He went to court, showed that he was in compliance and the judge did not care.
Just because it hasn't happened to you yet it doesn't mean it won't. It's nice to know that somebody doesn't understand that the dot is not your friend, you'll enjoy that one day
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
I've never had an issue with DOT seeing me use PC after a log audit. I also only use it when I'm not advancing a load or enhancing load readiness.
ImaginaryCatDreams@reddit
Just because you haven't had issues doesn't mean other people haven't, the world doesn't revolve around you
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
I don't believe that it does. That seems like a logical leap to state that I think it does.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
Pay wise, I think a jump would be worth it.
ImaginaryCatDreams@reddit
That, is a completely different issue.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
That was a response to the last part about the shit show I know vs the one I don't know.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
I agree they're shit. I had made the same run before without issue but I acknowledge it was a risk.
shadowmib@reddit
Sounds like some corporate bullshit. 1.2 mi is like nothing so the only reason I can think of that why it's A big deal is just because diesel prices have skyrocketed.
Going to Walmart to go shopping and coming right back is definitely within the allowed use of personal convenience
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
For the next 90 days I'll just use drive time to go grocery shopping. I think 1.2 miles v 10k miles in a month where I'm making them 10s of thousands of dollars and saving them money by not idling would eanred me a verbal warning. They also dead headed me over 500 miles towards freight recently so I'm not sure I buy the fuel cost excuse. This could've been avoided if I'd followed the silly rule, though.
MssMoodi@reddit
Call uber...
jgremlin_@reddit
Are you being unreasonable? Nope. But companies set their own policies and your responsibility is to heed those policies or suffer the consequences of not doing so.
The dirty little secret about PC is that some of the key terms associated with it in the regs are not defined. As an example, what counts as a terminal? What doesn't count as a terminal? No one knows and its never defined in the regs. So DOT officers get to decide for themselves what counts and what doesn't. Which means every officer has significant leeway to decide for themselves what use of PC is legal and what use of it isn't regardless of that the regs say and many officers do just that.
So you can't really blame companies for wanting to set strict policies around the use of PC since pretty much ANY use of it is handing a DOT officer a license to write you a ticket no judge will feel comfortable throwing out.
SaltAndBitter@reddit
This is honestly the best part of owning the truck. It's my own ass on the line, so I get the final say as to how much PC I can use. As long as it's not being abused, there's no statutory cap on PC mileage
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
Well said.
atomictoaster94J@reddit
Just wanna give you a suggestion for an alternative, for the time being, but if you use the Walmart app, they will deliver to your truck as long as the Walmart in the area is part of the program. And Walmart+ subscription is pretty cheep and gives you free delivery. When I was OTR I’d had my groceries delivered to wherever I was parked over the weekend and just put in the notes that I was a truck driver/what truck I was in
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
I'll probably start adding a stop to Walmart on my loads. What you suggested isn't a bad idea.
Auquaholic@reddit
Have you considered asking where to send a written request to add 5 miles to their policy, especially since the Walmart is that close to their terminal? It seems that it would be a small thing that they could do that would benefit everyone out there.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
I hadn't but that isn't a bad idea. There are only two close to that terminal so that would be reasonable.
keytiri@reddit
That sucks, but companies are free to set their own policy; mine doesn’t have mileage or time limits, but far or long uses draw more scrutiny from log audit.
JOliverScott@reddit
Personal Conveyance policies are set by the carrier, not FMCSA, so violating the PC distance policy only amounts to breaking company rules, not federal regulations. However, if the limit is known yet it's being violated repeatedly then I would have to side with the company although if no warnings were issued following the earlier violations then it seems harsh to suddenly start imposing sanctions as the first communication on the issue. Most companies will have a process of corrective action, from a verbal warning to a written warning to eventually an actionable penalty. This way would have also given an opportunity for you to voice concern not with the intent of the policy but with the real-world example of why the (probably) arbitrary limitation might need to be relaxed or reconsidered. You have no control over the distance required to PC yet the fact that it's been necessary violate the limit on multiple occasions may be justification for them to nudge it up a little because the difference between a 25 mile PC and a 30 mile PC is pretty insignificant. Chances are good they are not digging deep enough into the specific violations to realize they're just repeats of the same violation but given the opportunity you can make them aware of this fact tactfully and perhaps avoid disciplinary action as well as get the policy amended.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
I would've appreciated a verbal warning especially after having no issues the other two times I went to same Walmart from the terminal. You're right that I knowingly violated the policy, though.
JOliverScott@reddit
I get that because from our side of the steering wheel it seems kind of passive-aggressive to go from lax or no enforcement to severe penalty without some sort of escalation stage. I do find that in so many ways admin staff or pretty tone deaf to how they come across to drivers - they have the benefit of being physically present and in the loop about current events whereas we get most of our information and communication impersonally through a tablet messaging system and often infrequent with terse language. It comes across as severe when it's the only form of communication utilized but for some reasonany companies seem to discourage actual verbal conversation with the drivers to humanize the experience.
bmf1989@reddit
If that’s their policy then that’s the policy. I don’t think it’s a big deal so long as you’re using pc for pc appropriate purposes. But it doesn’t matter what I think and it probably doesn’t matter what the guy working in safety thinks.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
I agree.
THExPILLOx@reddit
That's company policy. There is no real PC limit legally. Is it too strict, yeah. But that's their policy.
MarmotWorldOrder@reddit (OP)
Fair enough