Why does it feel like we're acting as if we have time

Posted by _clockisreal76@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 53 comments

I spent some good few hours going through data on soil degradation and the global water crisis (yes, and there's also global oil crisis) it's hard to ignore how serious things are and how more serious they will get

Roughly around 40% of the world's soil is degraded. That's not some warming of what's to come... it's already happening and impacting how food is grown today. Soil isn't something you can just "fix" overnight once it is pushed this far.

At the same time, 2 billion people don't have access to safe drinking water. Again... this is not a future problem because there is already a gap that exists in the present.

What's hard to reconcile is how normal everything feels in contrast to that. Life keeps moving, decisions being made, and most of the time the bigger systems aren't even part of the conversation. Even something as simple as queueing in line at the supermarket starts to feel different if you try to breakdown in your head what went into producing the product you are holding... the water, the land, the scale of supply chain behind it.

Anyone else feel uncomfortable thinking how easy it is to live as if everything is still stable when in fact the foundations are all under pressure?

Solutions here, innovations here.. policy here but you have to ask yourself if the pace of change is keeping up with the reality we're in. From where I am standing, it doesn't feel like we're dealing with future problems. We're already in it, pretending we're not.

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Kazaryn@reddit

Yeah dude it's not great. Ur kinda preaching to the choir here.

In regards to soil specifically, read the book 'the encyclopedia of country living'. Written in the 1980s by someone who was around 80 at the time I think, very old knowledge in that book, mostly on soil reparations and composting. You'll find good answers on how to rejuvenate the soil on your own homestead from that book, but the scale of agriculture production could never sustain the methods suggested int he book

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cr0ft@reddit

Modern day mass growing shouldn't be going back to the stone age, but into the future. Vertical growing towers, all sealed to the outside to keep pests out, all growing using hydroponics or aeroponics, for instance. There are things we could do, but "they're too expensive" to put it in capitalism-speak.

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There_Are_No_Gods@reddit

Vertical growing is essentially snake oil, in that it's invariably a worse solution than anything else. It's adding oodles of unnecessary costs and complications to what is fundamentally a very simple and natural concept. Any supposed net positive results I've seen are easily unraveled from even a cursory inspection, such as to just check on the basic inputs and outputs of the system holistically.

It would be quite a feat to come out net positive with approaches such as: burn fossil fuels, or even use efficient solar power to...power lights of all things. Even the basic vertical setup is bonkers, where it requires pumping water upwards or limiting placement to where there is natural high water pressure, as opposed to planting in the ground...where water naturally lands.

I am well aware there are many nuances and complications that make it a complex analysis to fully evaluate it all, but that's also part of my point. Simply adhering to sustainable no-till regenerative permaculture type practices beats the unsustainable external input heavy technologically dependent vertical farming fad.

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systematk@reddit

I agree 'mostly' with this, but what i would say, and i am not uber familiar with the tech involved, i would imagine in a semi sealed tower, the watering upwards could mostly be done by nature as it does in single enclosed systems i already am using today. It basically would be like a water tray at the bottom, then shelves of plants, all 'mostly' enclosed to capture and return the humidity that develops. It works wonders in a single small setup, have yet to try it stacked under one dome though. I think there may be a middle ground here for efficiency and feasiblity?

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trivetsandcolanders@reddit

Well, I watched a video about how Singapore has invested into vertical farming like that. That being said, I imagine it relies just as heavily, or more, on the Haber-Bosch process as conventional agriculture now does, meaning it’s just as much based on fossil fuels.

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PatrolMan2129@reddit

Yeah, and because it grows greens (low calories) which it's best at, I once calculated they'd need to make 140,000 of those farms to get the calories to feed Singapore. You know, for a farm that cost $80 million to put up.

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systematk@reddit

Not going back to the stone age at all, but we need degrowth so the planet can actually heal to some extent. We should minimize our ecological impacts and instead of focusing on who can accumulate and hoard the most, instead focus on how to reign in unnecessary infrastructure we've built, eliminate wasted human energy, and develop planet friendly, reproducible technology.

breachednotbroken@reddit

Most of society is addicted to comfort and convince, more than happy to keep their head in the sand. Media plays off anything that would cause them to think things are bad, a panicked population is harder to control. Keep flashing shiney objects on TV, keep promoting celebrities to look up to, keep coming out with colorful sugar filled crap....the whole bread and circus thing.

-Rehsinup-@reddit

"Media plays off anything that would cause them to think things are bad..."

I'm not sure this part is true. Media absolutely feeds on — even exaggerates — negativity and doom scenarios. The problem is that it does so in a way that only encourages dopaminergic anxiety and paralysis rather than engendering actionable change or even a desire for something other than performative outrage.

I have to agree with you that they do release some information as long as funnels the masses into the proper train of thought.

Massive_Honeydew7056@reddit

What exactly am I to do about it?

Furseal469@reddit

I think on the otherside of this is how hard it can be to act like everything isn't ok.

I grow my own veggies, have chickens, live in an isolated part of the world with a particularly stable climate (currently), preserve, learn skills, and work in a field that tries to drive change. However, as much as I want to leave this current system, scream at everyone from the rooftops and act like everything isn't ok - I still need to work to make money, I need to foster relationships for now and into the future.

Not only do I want everything to change to be able to survive into the future, I also need to survive now. Unfortunately, a lot of people feel similar but most of us are stuck in a double bind. Just as many of our civilisations damaging practices are.

BitchfulThinking@reddit

Because people keep ignoring science and the vibes and are still popping out more babies than this planet can handle.

They think voting and money will fix things, and that pedophile nazi billionaires will have a sudden change of heart like Scrooge, and finally stop being parasites and respect our laws. They think their fascist relatives are "totally not racist" and can still be saved.

They don't want to hear that their kids are going to be living in polluted war torn hovels, trafficked into sexual servitude, surrounded by disease, and fighting over potable water. They ignore the fact that all of this is happening right now to other people's kids.

dyggythecat@reddit

Till the mask falls off and the mass deaths start to occur I don't think the general populace will care.

Most people are too comfortable to think the grocery stores might not have food. Their tap water might run dry. Amazon might not have enough workers to sacrifice to deliver your lubrication.

Covid killed so many people and the world barely blinked. It'll take something truly horrific for the majority to go crazy and start making it a lot worse.....

jaymickef@reddit

I'm more worried about what people will do when they do start to care. I have a feeling the solutions that they come up with for this problem will be very insular and very bad.

Ofblueair@reddit

I have a feeling we're already seeing people care and seeing the horrible solutions they're already acting on.

RlOTGRRRL@reddit

There's a post on r/AIdangers that was one of the most evil things I've ever read.

What was the post?

Humans do not have a very good track record of responding well to a crisis.

A few million dead is basically a rounding error. We have over 8000 million people, one or two million dead spread out across the planet is not that alarming.

Covid has killed around 30 million people worldwide…something like 1 in 300. That’s a lot

Mountain_Mirror_3642@reddit

Not to be cold, but to the previous comment, even 30 million is still only one-third of one percent of the global population. From a human perspective, 30 million people is a lot of people. From an ecological perspective, that's not even one single drop in the pail

Yes, that’s what I meant though, from a human perspective it’s a lot, that’s the context that the comments I was replying to were setting.

Susanoos_Wife@reddit

Covid is still killing people, people just decided to stop caring, so even if all of these shortages and supply chain issues affect those of us in developed countries, most people will probably just get sick of caring about it and continue to lay around doing nothing until they die.

AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit

Till the mask falls off and the mass deaths start to occur IN WESTERN COUNTRIES I don't think the general populace will care.

FIFY

Of course, the general public in those non-Western countries/regions experiencing the mass deaths will more than care about them, but hey, they're just "people over there" or "people in countries with funny names" to way-too-many Westerners.

Hokker3@reddit

Or they say COVID was a made up thing just like the Holocaust. Or the genocide in Gaza.

nickiter@reddit

Because we in the first world largely do have time. Our money and the hegemonic power of the western world will insulate us from the worst impacts of environmental collapse for decades yet.

Liveitup1999@reddit

Yep, until it doesn't. Then everyone will be yelling for people to do something. Like driving 100 miles an hour towards a cliff then when you are 50ft from it yelling for the driver to stop.

friendsandmodels@reddit

Ahh wont take that long even. People always assume like those millions of people will stay in their region instead of moving..

FearMyCock@reddit

Then the militarily would obviously get involved to stop them from moving into the country ....

Gregleet@reddit

Access to drinking water and food is on the rise so while yes 2 million people don’t have access to clean drinking water today. That is still less people as a percentage than at any other time in the history of the planet.

Grand-Page-1180@reddit

Thats one of the strangest, hardest things to understand or live through right now, we can't understand that we're in an emergency. If I had my way, it would be all hands on deck to start doing as much damage control as possible. End the wars, end the frivolous aspects of capitalism, put all adults to work doing something to fortify ourselves. The noose is tightening around our necks every day we pretend everything is fine.

RadiantRole266@reddit

This is where I am. We might be doomed. I can’t roll over. We need to treat this like an emergency and get to work now.

The average citizen has 4 hours a day to themselves. The rest is spoken for. Sleep, body maintenance and food, commuting, work etc, when all that is said and done, if you're single you have 4 hours in the evening to do what you want, while exhausted from the horseshit during the day.

Not a lot of energy left to go protesting and shit.

Which is hardly a coincidence. A populace that would have the unlimited time rich people have would change things in pretty short order.

I've stopped giving a shit about people or the planet. I've made my peace with our species dying off or descending into dark ages and then dying off. I won't be here for it, so good luck to the future generations. It helps to have little family and no kids.

BattleGrown@reddit

That's called the critical mass. When around 25% of population becomes jobless, a revolution soon follows.

church-rosser@reddit

i mostly agree. still, while it hurts less in the short term to lack much family and no kids, it makes getting up every day and facing the reality of our collective future feel even more bleak. i hate this timeline for all living things.

Deguilded@reddit

We act as if "we still have a chance" because very few people are capable of staring the truth full in the face. Not only are we "running out of time", we missed the starting gun (or so the song goes) and the race is already over.

We're stumbling along, mortally wounded, we just haven't passed out from exsanguination.

WanderInTheTrees@reddit

I have a friend who knows things are bad, but continually just says "I have hope science will figure it out and save us." She thought AI was going to do it, now she's seeing it's quite the opposite. Yet she has hopium coursing through her veins. I guess she feels she has to because she has two kids.

I, on the other hand, also have two kids (had them pre-collapse awareness, please don't come at me, I know) and I go into each day thinking "let's make this day as great as we can, because each day we get closer to a time where making a day great won't be feasible."

So, we laugh, and play, and enjoy our hobbies, and plant trees and flowers, and I bake, and we get French fries, and we watch fun TV shows, and read books. And I sit there through it all, knowing what's coming, and just trying so hard to live in the moment and also be mentally prepared for what's coming. Each day is a gift and also a heavy burden to carry the knowledge of how fast it's all coming apart.

ParamedicPure6529@reddit

So, you could say that this knowledge/knowing has improved your life? This happened to me, in 2019. I realised…. I already had a two year old….. I initially freaked out and grieved everything. The first few years were difficult, but I learnt to live in the moment, and make the most of it. These days I don’t really pay attention to any of this “collapse” stuff, and don’t watch the news. I just get on with my life, and have fun with my kid (our relationship is brilliant). Maybe I reached the point of acceptance? I did have a spiritual awakening. And maybe our lives will be about quality, rather than quantity (thanks to my knowing)? There were never any guarantees to begin with.

And I 100% don’t regret having a child. I wish I’d had another!

there were guarantees, implicit. Our bodies wouldn't collectively reproduce if they didnt have a hospitable environment for doing so. The environment is still somewhat habitable now for some of us. that will soon not be so. Good 4 u for having kids... not so much for the kidsz

MyOtherACCBanned@reddit

Im laying down waiting to die rn

I’ll get my violin out….

MeepersToast@reddit

I was outside yesterday, looking around thinking "Wow. It's so beautiful out. Blue sky. Cheap electricity and water. Abundant food. Easy to access tools and internet. I have to savor this, remember how it feels."

Don't forget to be thankful for the abundance you have today

Evening_Grass_8073@reddit

Being aware of how much worse everything will get makes that really difficult though, at least for me. It feels like having a gun pointed at my head 24/7 that I know will go off at some point in the future.

interofficemail@reddit

"Smoke 'em if you've got 'em"

spacefaceclosetomine@reddit

People aren’t really even informed about or interested in learning about current events, let alone collapse. They don’t even expect to have their lives changed by the war in Iran.

guyseeking@reddit

Captive organisms held under duress exhibit strange cognitive behaviours.

HomoExtinctisus@reddit

Because of hopium consumption like solar and geoengineering.

Oligarch propaganda.

Seversevens@reddit

It’s just like the climate change. Some of the experts of climate change have literally sadly put their hand on our shoulders and told us to spend time with our loved ones. There’s nothing we can do and freaking out. It’s just gonna make the time we have left more stressful.

These are the last golden days of what will come to feel like paradise and we can’t do anything about it

I am not acting like I am having a good time. I am not having a good time. Working with the public will cure that good time.

NWkingslayer2024@reddit

This is something you can’t control and one of those things you’ll have to deal with as it comes.

kexpi@reddit

Individuals have time. Humanity doesn't. Most individuals only care about them.