I can now understand why some people stay at a regional.

[-]

blueridgeblah@reddit

Just remember that when the first available upgrade comes knocking and don’t take it. The least happy people are commuting to SC reserve and watching people senior to them pile on top while they stagnant a few years.

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D74248@reddit

Imagine if I was in my 40’s or 50’s with kids, this would have totally suck. Now I have a bit of empathy for people who stay at a regional for certain reasons and not look down on them for not moving on.

I am retired now, but I spent most of my career being looked down upon. Half of it at a regional, half of it at an ACMI carrier. The need for people in this industry to be condescendingly arrogant to others who are "beneath them" is appalling.

More importantly, you touch on an important point. They years with your kids are what matters. Not the gross career income, much of it often earned once the kids are well on their way. Too often with both wife 1.0 and 2.0 part of the party.

Compared to my friends who grabbed the brass ring and got on with the majors [and great for them getting that], I did not have the big paychecks towards the end of my career. But I was also never furloughed, never even downgraded. And the flying was often interesting.

The really funny thing is that I am the one who retired early and on my terms.

People should live their lives and not use their yardsticks to judge others.

Thank you for this opportunity to get a few things off my chest.

[-]

Hudspace@reddit

Curious, how early?

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jabbs72@reddit

I would take a year or two commuting with 18% DC on a 401k any day of the week.

[-]

DeltaTule@reddit

Commuting sucks. Most commuters are overweight and at least once divorced if not even never married because they never had time to date

[-]

DefundTheHOA_@reddit

Dude you can say the same thing about the average person lol

[-]

DeltaTule@reddit

Ha true

[-]

McCheesing@reddit

Hello, coworker :)

[-]

CaptainJackass123@reddit

Come back to us in 2-3 years when it all improves.

My wife (at a legacy) just a 4 day, and the last 3 days were all re route days. Meaning reroute pay.

She’s an FO. She brought home an additional 4k JUST from the reroutes.

Regionals really should be a destination for anyone. I know a 26 year envoy guy, who did his last 8 years to 65 at AA. He flowed at 57. He said it was 100% worth it.

Never drink the regional kool aid.

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NonVideBunt@reddit

Forest through the trees. I get it, you’re back at the bottom. In a very short amount of time you’re have better everything than you had at your previous job.

Additionally, how many regional airlines have disappeared in the last 20 years? You made the right move… deal with the suck and it will get better.

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bae125@reddit

Ever since the big pay raises regionals have become considerably more viable as careers. We all know seniority is gold, and an in base captain with decent seniority and maybe LCA can do very well. I know a few at one regional who are APDs/LCAs and their lives are pretty damn good

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ConditionLevers1050@reddit

I hear ExpressJet, Trans States, ASA and Comair are extremely viable as careers these days.

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bae125@reddit

You’re covering a lot of years there, and yeah, it’s more volatile so good choices have to be made. I definitely think some instability is coming to the majors too, it always does. I think an argument could be made that Skywest, for example, is more stable than any of the LCCs

All aside, I’m not recommending the regional career, I’m just saying it’s a helluva lot better now than when I was coming up

[-]

Guysmiley777@reddit

Breaking news! This just in: commuting sucks!

[-]

BrickSpecific1776@reddit

Rule #1 of commuting: don't.

[-]

HSVMalooGTS@reddit

WFH should be mandatory if possible

Just.. not for this profession...

[-]

ConditionLevers1050@reddit

It certainly does, but legacy pilots are paid so well they can afford to live in just about any base anyway. Very different situation from commuting in regional Hell.

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Guysmiley777@reddit

Yep, honestly I think the take away isn't "don't leave a regional because of QoL" it's "spend the money to not be miserable (furnished rental, apartment lease, whatever) until you aren't commuting to sit on reserve".

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mvpilot172@reddit

Done it for over 20 years, agree! Mine is only an hour flight with a dozen flights a day too.

[-]

Outrageous_Potato958@reddit

If its the DFW - IAH commute, that one can suck if the weather decides to poop the bed.

[-]

Kerfauna@reddit

I am already “there” at a legacy, having also done a flow program. My sister is now trying to go somewhere, so I’ve been attending conventions with her. Let me tell you, I am incredibly grateful not to be amongst the hundreds of applicants trying to get face-to-face time with a recruiter. Attending RTAG and WIA has really put perspective how beneficial a flow program can be. Mad respect for anyone who jumps the flow.

[-]

KCPilot17@reddit

It's a year or two of suck for overall better QOL and a difference of millions of dollars.

You'll be fine my man.

[-]

jetsetter023@reddit

This is the most short sighted post I've seen on here. 1 - 2 years of a little more work for years of better QOL and more $.

[-]

latedescent@reddit

It’s the I want it now mentality. This generation would have quit the career back in the 2000s.

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

what the fuck are you talking about? this guy clearly states "this is obviously the right career move and I'm happy I did it, I just have more empathy". they aren't whining about it and saying "I want it now!!!!".

absurd.

[-]

cincocerodos@reddit

Knowing it's the right move and then making a post complaining about it on Reddit kind of seems like the definition of whining.

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

sometimes it’s the right move to put down your dog. it doesn’t mean you have to be happy about it or celebrate it.

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cincocerodos@reddit

Apples to bowling balls, but for some reason you seem to take all of this really personally.

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

idk that’s a weird way of admitting you’re wrong but sure it works I suppose

[-]

latedescent@reddit

Settle down, Beavis

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

very well stated reply

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DanceUsed@reddit

You damn right I would’ve. My family is more important than flying an airplane. I would’ve gladly found another job in the 2000s if I were doing this job back then. Kudos to the ones who did because I never would’ve.

[-]

imapilotaz@reddit

I mean thousands if not tens of thousands quit and never came back from about 1990 to 2011. It was an era of never-ending furloughs, bankruptcies, and mergers. Even before 9/11, AA had hundreds of pilots on furlough. Regional airlines were paying $15k a year (in 121), and you'd realistically make $30k a year flying jets.

I had pilots who worked for me that literally lived in their car. It was terrifying, and i worried weekly that if we had a fatal accident, my ass (who most definitely didn't set pilot contracts) was going to be slaughtered publicly for this.

Thankfully, i had no fatal accidents during my tenure "running" different regional airlines.

I sit here and just shrug at OP's posts. 25 years ago, at his current hours, probably at 3500 TT, would be BARELY qualifying for the right seat in a shiny new CRJ200 making at best $25k a year. You typically couldn't get your shitty B1900D job with less than 1500-2000 hours, and you'd spend 4-5 years doing milk runs to great places like McCook Nebraska or Jamestown, NY.

But today, OP makes $150k a year flying a 737 or Airbus, gets 17% direct 401K contribution and will top out at $500k a year in 12 years... and its tough for him to commute for a year.

25 years ago youd live in a dump like Hobbs, New Mexico with your 3500 hours and make $20k a year.

[-]

latedescent@reddit

Well stated from someone who lived it and knows! Thank you.

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Cessnateur@reddit

I think literally every single generation has said this about the ones that have followed in their paths.

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BitterMojo@reddit

Heaps of the last gen quit in the 2000s as well. We just see and work with the survivors.

[-]

intern_steve@reddit

I met a guy who quit his regional in the late 90s and came back to a regional in 2023. Happiest pilot on earth once the cobwebs fell off.

[-]

a_provo_yakker@reddit

Chip Childs working overtime on social media

[-]

554TangoAlpha@reddit

Fun Liveries aren't always Fun!

[-]

KITTYONFYRE@reddit

how is it short sighted for them to say "I know this is the right move for my career it just sucks". they aren't saying it was a bad choice or some shit, they obviously know that it's the correct move...

why are people interpreting this in the least charitable way possible, I don't understand

[-]

Crusoebear@reddit

It’s the adult version of the old marshmallow experiment…

https://youtu.be/Yo4WF3cSd9Q

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the_devils_advocates@reddit

Yea, like how long was OP at a regional, how long was OP a captain? This sounds like a whine

We have it so much better than the guys ahead of us did.

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mvpilot172@reddit

I spent 12 years at a regional (6 as a CA), made between $23k and $45k as an FO for years. Been at a legacy for 8 now ( 3 as a CA). Besides not knowing if your regional will be around for 20-30 more years the pay and QOL after a year is huge.

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MultiMillionMiler@reddit

$20-40K is criminally low wtf?

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mvpilot172@reddit

Yup, I was an FO on a Saab 340 making $23/hr in 2005.

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Lanky_Beyond725@reddit

In 2005, that was good pay though. These posts never take into account inflation. $23 an hour could buy a house back then.

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Moshjath@reddit

Yeah in 2007 I was a PFC in Iraq making $1500 a month, with another $275 for hostile fire and jump pay. I didn’t feel exceptionally underpaid.

[-]

phlflyguy@reddit

You might be exaggerating a bit. $23/hour at 1000 hours a year would be $23000m and that's probably a generous annual comp assumption.

2005 was still in the real estate bubble before the 2008 crash, so housing wasn't exactly a bargain - especially for someone making $23/hour.

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TuckNT340@reddit

Col-gan lol.

1900FO making less back then😂

It’s a shame the current generation didn’t get to watch Daddy delta pull the rug out from under all the Comair /messaba lifers. I feel like they don’t understand how important it is to own your own flying, especially when the economy slows down.

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imapilotaz@reddit

I mean yes and no. Comair/Mesaba had their own issues. But papa SkyWest has done pretty good with a history over the last 30 years way better than most legacies for furloughs

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TuckNT340@reddit

And they will, until their legacy partner gets in bed with somebody else.

Mainline furloughs come back unless the shop folds. Regional furloughs almost never return.

Companies problem was that you had lifers who were comfortable suddenly found themselves with a boat payment, some expensive car payments and no job.

Always fun being 55 and applying to mainline- hoping to get a reserve seat somewhere near your 4000sq foot house.

[-]

MiniTab@reddit

I was making that in 2011 at SkyWest on the Bro. Actually I think it was $21/hour. Man did that suck, and I’m glad those days are gone!

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Guysmiley777@reddit

Holy shit, I forget that the youngins may not be aware of how profoundly shitty regional pay used to be.

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MultiMillionMiler@reddit

Well given how low flight instructor pay is I'm not even surprised. I've made higher hourly rates doordashing than that.

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Striderrs@reddit

Welcome to the industry ~15 years ago. Pay has not always been as good as it is, especially at the regionals.

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the_devils_advocates@reddit

Not even that long ago. Pre all these new contracts FO pay was like 50$ an hour in 2020… on min guarantee that’s like 45k a year

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Lanky_Beyond725@reddit

Eh but that was good pay in whatever 90s/early 2000s era you made $30-40k. Inflation is real

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asianperswayze@reddit

Now I have a bit of empathy for people who stay at a regional for certain reasons and not look down on them for not moving on.

This says all I need to know about the OP. Anyone looking down on people for personal decisions on career choice...

[-]

girl_incognito@reddit

Better than them... so far.

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

where did OP say they weren't going to be fine? they clearly stated "I know this is the right career move". they know and literally posted exactly what your comment is...

[-]

WIS_pilot@reddit

NB at a legacy didn’t feel much different to a regional to me

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blanc84gn@reddit

Except that the legs are longer. Which I feel like is worse than doing 4 short legs.

[-]

swakid8@reddit

I dunno, I prefer 1 to 2 legs and done with long layovers…

3 to 4 legs with shorter layovers s not my cup of tea…

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blanc84gn@reddit

Sure 1 -2 short legs would be great haha

but I’m waaaaay more exhausted doing two 3+ legs. Did 4 1ish hour legs the other day and felt happier than I’ve been. 😂

[-]

Flounder719@reddit

Just adding another perspective for those reading, in my personal experience my QOL was better commuting on a 3 hour flight to a coast for 2 years than I ever had it in base with my regional at the Mormon Air Force. But I think a big part of that was due to how flexible our luv’ly schedule tools are.

[-]

Mrs_Fagina@reddit

Pro-Regional propaganda will not be tolerated on this site.

You take your 737MIA and you enjoy it.

[-]

Adabar@reddit

My bet is LAX 73 🤣

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FlatwormNo3937@reddit

Even worse. Cleveland

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FestivusFan@reddit

Small city prices? You can live like a king!

[-]

swakid8@reddit

You going take this 737MIA and love it… lol

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RBDK@reddit

You may want to consider just moving to your new base if you can, and if the new city isn't complete garbage. Your QOL will significantly improve. People move for work all the time. I'm on my fourth relocation myself. But I like moving around and living in new places. It's a good opportunity to experience different cultures within the U.S. and explore new states you probably wouldn't have ever visited otherwise.

[-]

EdBasqueMaster@reddit

How the fuck does this have almost 400 upvotes

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kscessnadriver@reddit

I’ve 100% been where you are. It gets better, the short term suck is worth the long term gain.

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SubarcticFarmer@reddit

More than half of the regionals that existed when I started flying commercially don't exist anymore. The lifers there not only got to start over at the bottom, they generally got to do it at another regional.

Regional QOL is the devil's handcuffs.

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prex10@reddit

Exactly. When ASA/XJT closed up, a ton of the lifers came over to 9E and they couldn't have made it more evident how much they didn't want to be there.

Some still wore their XJT uniforms. Most of them were weird as hell too. It was obvious why they hadn't moved on.

[-]

SubarcticFarmer@reddit

Wearing another airline's uniforms should have been a one way ticket off the seniority list. The craziest thing about your story is that they apparently weren't forced out.

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prex10@reddit

Those guys guzzled down the ASA kool aid. They wouldn't stop going on how ATL was "their territory" too etc. I remember telling one of them go tell that to Comair guys and CVG, and oh wait you can't.

It was so much delusion and self pity about their poor regional going under and how awesome it was. When it wasn't and what Endeavor offered was quite literally leagues better.

A lot of them simply didn't want to go to Delta because they hated Delta and how they treated them. But also didn't want to go anywhere well so they sucked it up and just stuck around being a regional pilot. A lot of them actually had big aspirations is still going to Delta, but obviously we're still there in their delusions and weirdness. I remember this one dude, he would wear black tactical police pants, and cop shoes too. His white shirt was like an off color of yellow, and it was evident that his wife, or whoever had probably tied his tie from once maybe 10 years ago and he had never bothered to actually undo it and tie it again. So it was just all super thin out and worn. Just alot of pathetic looking people.

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SubarcticFarmer@reddit

When 9E was in bankruptcy (as Pinnacle), I remember random ASA pilots coming up to me and talking about how I should quit and go to ASA to get a leg up on the seniority movement they were going to experience when they got all of our flying. I might not be senior enough to be a captain, you know, but I'd at least be a very senior FO. With the writing on the wall, that would be the smart choice.

When 9E pilots first kept up performance even in the face of a potential shut down, Delta offered a path to continued operation in exchange for concessions. When it was accepted, suddenly the same ASA pilots who were bragging about getting the 9E flying wanted a jumpseat war (there were actual jumpseat denials going on) because we didn't shut down to give them their new flying.

[-]

Just_Another_Pilot@reddit

I once flew with a former XJT who lived in a junior United base but commuted to a ULCC job. He was unwilling to even apply to United because he wouldn't forgive them for killing his precious ExpressJet.

Imagine sacrificing that much just because you can't get over the fact that your shitty regional shut down.

[-]

prex10@reddit

"yeah but we had trip touch and the Huntsville Best Western gave us dollar beers."

Yeah and lol

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TRex_N_Truex@reddit

I was L-ASA. I can promise you those weirdos were still weirdos over there too.

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Brambleshire@reddit

I got no sympathy for you at all.

You're being horribly short sided and it makes you look very silly.

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taytayflyfly@reddit

Short sighted*

[-]

vagasportauthority@reddit

I think every Major is about to get a big wave of retirements in the next 2-5 years. You will move up fast.

It may suck now, but this is better if you were always aiming for the majors.

My mother is a very senior captain at the regionals, to the point where it makes no sense for her go fo to the majors because she will never recover her QOL or become super senior because she will hit retirement age before she even make widebody FO, maybe even narrowbody CA.

I honestly think that in the long run you will tank yourself for making that leap.

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prex10@reddit

Literally a year from now you'll find how silly this post sounds.

I'll firmly say 90%+ of the people who stick around at regionals were hired prior to 1999.

[-]

Brambleshire@reddit

Man oh man, how many times I have stayed at the TYS Hampton

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prex10@reddit

I saw Global/Gulfstream Girl in the lobby once there. Post Epstein too.

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Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit

Lmao wonder which regional you came from. I bet you know a lot of guys who were hired by Schmesaba or Shminnacle

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prex10@reddit

I was in high school when those two airlines existed.

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ConditionLevers1050@reddit

Technically Pinnacle still exists, they just changed their name.

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Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit

Oh I believe it. My point was I assume you flew at the one where all those guys ended up and didn't want to leave (or couldn't).

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prex10@reddit

To so many of them going to Delta was like going to the moon for them. I think a lot of them were worried about passing training. I think a lot of of them couldn't comprehend the idea of maybe commuting to New York for like three or four months. They couldn't comprehend all the soft pay that goes on top of the $30 an hour pay cut. They didn't comprehend, that their cost-of-living was well within their means. They didn't see the bigger picture beyond the first year. A lot of them would also justify stuff like that they made more than second year FOs, but you never heard then mention they did it basically doing 150 hour credit months every single month.

[-]

VillageIdiotsAgent@reddit

I mean… I understand “why.” I just think it’s a poor choice.

If you can’t stomach a couple of years of reduced pay and QOL for the payoff of better EVERYTHING after that for the remainder of your career… I don’t know what to tell you.

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Number1atp@reddit

I stayed too long at mine. I had it made too. Lived in base, training department, & lived in the same city as TC. Almost 4 years ago when they brought on a ton of non seniority list instructors I believed them that staffing the TC wasn’t going to be like this forever and they would pull more line pilot instructors. Supposed to be in the sim about 10 months out of the year and fly about 2 months out of the year but that was exactly opposite from reality and didn’t improve at least while I was there. I hear horror stories of people’s regional experience but I have to say mine was overwhelmingly positive. Living in base, driving to work, and making 3x my state’s median income made it hard to leave. So far commuting hasn’t been too bad. Going through mainline training made me even more proud of the training product we put out at the regional tho. My health insurnace at my regional was better than any of the plans offered by my new employer. The only real positive so far is that I will never have to contribute to my retirement again and the upside income opportunity is pretty incredible. I’m not tied to where I live and considering moving in the next few years so I can def get the QOL back on that front once I figure out what base I want to live in.

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reidmrdotcom@reddit

There is for sure some adjustment in the first year. And then you hope not to be furloughed and get enough seniority. So for sure, I get it too.

Of course, now that you are there, if you can’t get home based in a reasonable time, moving to base may save a lot of problems. I commuted to reserve for a year at the regionals and thought of quitting daily. After getting my base back to where I lived my work life improved immensely and I stopped thinking of quitting.

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Lanky_Beyond725@reddit

I'm guilty of this for sure(I haven't moved yet for regional or LCC), but more people need to be willing to move. It completely changes the job.

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reidmrdotcom@reddit

For sure. I've moved 2 times so far, and that year commuting I was talking about moving to that base if I didn't get back within a year. Which is what happened and why I didn't move.

I do meet a number of jump seaters who commute due to their spouses family living where they live, as well as having kids. They seem to kind of just accept that is their situation and seem about as okay with it as one could be when commuting.

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ConditionLevers1050@reddit

Based on what I hear about QOL at the regionals from people who are still stuck there, I have to assume this is a troll post.

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LockPickingPilot@reddit

I’m going to tell you this like I would tell the FOs when I was a regional captain (first pertain since you moved) Do not trade your future fur your now. Some of them were wanting to postpone upgrade and when we broke just the money down since it was easy to work. That year delay to enjoy the year would cost about 500,000 over their career and that was 2019 dollars

[-]

intern_steve@reddit

I'll piggyback on this sentiment and say I miss my regional contract. I'd never have made anywhere close to what I'll make at the legacy, but at least the contract was clear and accessible for someone who's not a lawyer. It's only been a year on the line and I've already been screwed as many times as I was in my entire regional career.

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swakid8@reddit

Easier to read doesn’t make it a better contract terms of protection…. Once you learn it, understand it, then apply it, it will all makes sense.

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intern_steve@reddit

Idk, the time off really doesn't seem to carry any weight here, at all

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TuckNT340@reddit

It doesn’t matter when you make the jump- that is what will happen. After living through the purge of 2012+ and watching all the upheaval at the regionals-

Get it over with early, get your QOL back up faster and avoid being Comair’d.

Sure it’s rough now, but sticking at the regionals would have just made it a lot rougher.

[-]

Ozkeewowow@reddit

I’m sure your regional will take you back

[-]

FL060@reddit

Once you get back to home base, put in for upgrade in the same base. It'll go from a $250k job to a $500k job, still at home.

Section 6 is opening up, which means another set of raises coming down the road, while your old regional won't be getting the same hikes. Throw in the automatic 17% into the 401k, plus whatever the hell you throw into it, and backdoor into your Roth, etc.

Meanwhile, reserve is way the hell better at any mainline than any regional, ever.

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intern_steve@reddit

reserve is way the hell better at any mainline than any regional, ever

I had the best experience on reserve at my regional and it only got better as I rode the seniority list upward. I was proffering trips just to stay current. I don't see how that could ever happen at mainline with the bucketing system. I don't mind being asked to work for my paycheck, don't take that as a complaint, but it was way better down at my regional.

[-]

swakid8@reddit

With Fed Ex getting a TA… There some baseline improvement items that have been established for next round of contract negotiations….

Delta having openers recently and United/AA openers coming in 12 months… Improvements are coming down the pipe.

[-]

PWJT8D@reddit

Just watch your retirement grow and stop draining yourself on the temporary stuff.

Legacy >>>> Regional every day and twice on Sunday. It’s not even close.

[-]

cptnpiccard@reddit

Fucking A, people really like to complain with their bellies full.

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Unhappy_Sprinkles121@reddit

As someone who lost seniority, took a big pay cut, and commuted transcon for 6+ months (nothing compared to what some people went through with bankruptcy) I can tell you ITS WORTH IT! Suck it up and enjoy what you can 👍🏼

[-]

Bogusscreenname@reddit

Waaahhhh. “This gold bar you handed me is too heavy”. Seriously, some people will bitch about anything

[-]

Derp_McShlurp@reddit

The same can be said as a senior FO at a major. I'm getting close to the chance for upgrade and I know that once I make that jump it will be well over a decade before I see the same QOL that I'm experiencing right now. I'll still do it, but I can completely understand the reason some people never leave the right seat.

[-]

TristanwithaT@reddit

I mean, making a cool 300k a year living in base with the days off you want? Yeah, there are plenty of reasons for legacy FOs to never upgrade.

[-]

aviatortrevor@reddit

Move, and deal with the high cost of living there until you can move back to your desired domicile?

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Dru_stu@reddit

I can’t believe you’d think this is a valid complaint… in 10 years you’ll be clearing over 600K as a captain as opposed to scraping by at the regionals when the inevitable pay cut happens.

[-]

UnfortunateSnort12@reddit

Yeah, I thought that way early in my career flying with senior regional dudes. Then Northwest/Delta furloughed us, yanked our flow, sold us to a competitor, and those same senior guys lost a ton of seniority, QOL, etc.

It’s easy to get comfortable, but it’s a short term sacrifice for long term gain. None of those guys I flew with are happy with their decisions these days…. If they are honest with themselves.

[-]

srbmfodder@reddit

2 of the 3 Trans State Holdings airlines slammed their doors in 2020. You wouldn't want to be at any of them then. we've had some unprecedented great luck in the aviation industry the last few years in terms of hiring.

You should talk to some of the old timers that have gone through multiple furloughs. They may give you a better perspective.

[-]

Paranoma@reddit

Lmao you’re life I going to be 1,000x better than your best year at a regional in about 2 years. And the things you mentioned were 100% predictable.

[-]

blanc84gn@reddit

The 401k direct contribution should be reason enough to GTFO of the regionals. I have more in my new 401k in my first year at a legacy than what I made in the first 3 years at OO.

Don’t get me wrong I actually enjoyed my time at OO and I do miss it very much. But the longevity and stability at the majors are something that can’t be beat.

[-]

BigBadPanda@reddit

Top tier trolling. Golf clap

[-]

swakid8@reddit

Give it 2 years…. Your tune will change.

1st is always the toughest year at any airline. You are at the bottom of the seniority list, you are on first year pay, you are learning a new company SOP, and you are learning your contract and how to leverage it for max amount of money/QOL….

Think about it, what was your first year at a regional like? It wasn’t sunshine and rainbows either….

Come back when you are driving to base at a legacy, and when you have better seniority at year 2….

[-]

TheCultofLoss@reddit

First year at a regional does in fact sound like sunshine and rainbows to those still getting their hours lol

[-]

swakid8@reddit

I terms of airline pay and QOL, it sucks…. It will be better than flight instruction.

To your point, it’s all perspective…

[-]

TheCultofLoss@reddit

Yeah, the only drawback to the regionals I’m looking to get to are the fact that I’ll have to be based in JFK/LGA for a little bit.

But right now I’m a full time student, flight training, and working at a hotel part time which gets me 1000 per month. 80k+ per year sitting on reserve sounds like a dream.

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prex10@reddit

LGA and JFK are what you make of it. Crash pads suck, but on a decent day, they're not bad to fly too.

JFK in my opinion is a lot of like Memphis. Most of the day its a fairly quiet airport and gets chaotic at night. Inbound you don't oven call ground. Bravo to the ramp and monitor. Its size is intimidating but Ohare is a far worse monster.

You also get senior super quickly there. Every single class, someone's going to come in behind you. When you get based out in the places that are actually desirable, you're going to be waiting around for vacancies to actually open up.

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changgerz@reddit

LGA is the worst airport I have ever operated out of and the Delta terminal there has always been a bag of hot ass

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prex10@reddit

Least it's a renovated bag of ass now

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changgerz@reddit

Do you still have to walk 3 miles to get between concourses or did they fix that?

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prex10@reddit

No longer in the Delta system so I have not seen the new Delta the lately

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swakid8@reddit

Basing based and having to commute to NYC sucks but it can be your treasure as well (quick seniority progression in junior bases). Depends what you make of it. Lemonade out of Lemons.

It might not even be a long term ordeal either commuting those bases.

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thereasonableaviator@reddit

I just recently arrived at the regional level so I don’t have much experience in making the jump to the majors specifically but one thing I do have to say is that with every job I have taken my previous job is romanticized in my head and there are aspects I miss. From being a CFI I miss the great group of people I worked with everyday and being home more. The airlines are an objectively better gig so I don’t miss it too much.

I’ve notified with every new job comes with its struggles and it is tough to go from being very good at your job to learning another. Whether that be another companies policies or a new airplane and that transition from your job being easy to having to work to get better is tough regardless of the level you are playing at.

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Efficient_Gift_6834@reddit

You’re complaining about short term loss when you have insane long term gain. Do you not remember your first year at the regionals? This is an insanely dumb take/comment in my opinion. You got complacent as a regional, which is MILES behind a legacy. I will never understand the young guys who decide to stay at a company that pays less, worse hotels, worse retirement, works you more, worse schedules, worse benefits, etc etc than just taking a year or two of hurt to have a much greater future.

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Objective-Winter-512@reddit

Ah the flow through pilot. Why couldn’t you get hired outside of the flow over the last few years. Congrats on making it finally, I guess..

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TraxenT-TR@reddit

Jealous much of someone who did their time slaving away at max duty day 5 leg days at their regional that they finally got their call to the big leagues? It’s not just a free pass into a major. You still gotta work for it and earn it.

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swakid8@reddit

I mean, they aren’t totally wrong…

If they flowed, they likely sat on the sidelines during the great 2022-2023 hiring spree to wait their turn instead of putting in work to move on….

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TraxenT-TR@reddit

Yeah but if you’re at endeavor and live in ATL let’s say. And your goal is to be ATL based for delta. You’re gonna have to wait your line in a flow or jump over to a LCC or another regional and reset your seniority and money just to have maybe a slightly better shot due to resume washing. At that point it’s just not worth it especially if the flow was soon.

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swakid8@reddit

If someone was flowing from Endeavor or a AA WO today…. There were likely hired and established at a regional in the 2018-2021 time frame. Considering the flow timelines, pauses of flows, and establishing of new flow agreements.

There were ample opportunities in 2022-2023 time frame for those folks to move on and be well established at a legacy today sitting about 60-70 percent seniority overall….

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Objective-Winter-512@reddit

This.

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changgerz@reddit

Someone flowing to DL from 9E would have probably been hired 2022.

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Bot_Marvin@reddit

Yeah but what about bases. If you live in Atlanta, you're going to be commuting for the rest of your life to any airline that doesn't wear a hat.

Is getting to a legacy 2-3 years earlier worth 30+ years of commuting?

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swakid8@reddit

Yes it’s definitely worth it for those 2-3 years…..

It’s a difference between being 60-70 percent seniority today overall vs being furlough fodder today….

It’s the difference between having a 30-50 percent seniority as a NB FO having weekends off today, or 70-90 percent NBCA today, or 60-90 percent WBFO today vs being a 90 percent NBFO today….

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Bot_Marvin@reddit

Yeah it’s an initial increase of QoL, but you will never match the QoL of living in base. I’d rather sacrifice QoL when I’m young and my life is flexible enough, then 5-10 years down the line reap the rewards of being senior living in base.

You’ll make up all the pay you lost in premium that you can snag due to living 20 minutes from the employee lot.

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swakid8@reddit

Again you arguing with someone whose spent most of their commuting…. I know the benefits of living base, I also know the benefits on being on a seniority at a mainline carrier vs regional.

I know op had a opportunity to move on sooner as well and would have been at their legacy sooner….

You aren’t going to convince me sacrificing a opportunity to move on and stay at regional to flow to my desired legacy is a good move.

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swakid8@reddit

Ok….What about bases…

You know its to easier and quicker to get hired at United get through training and then hen update your Delta app with United in your job history vs Endeavor (Delta will just ignore your app)….

Yeah, you know what. Many folks have done it and been perfectly happy doing so. Or you can always move if the option is available…

Then again, you trying to argue about bases/commuting to someone who has commuted for 80 percent of their career. I lived in base for brief moment. It came and it went…

There’s no guarantee of holding and living base for a entire career. Base closures, displacements, a person moves, a person decides to bid for a type of flying that would yield crazy good QOL even as a commuter…

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Bot_Marvin@reddit

There’s no guarantee of living in base for a whole career, but if you choose ATL, DFW, CLT, or DEN and their respective legacy, you’ve got a pretty good shot at doing it.

The hop to United and then Delta is fun and great… until Delta gives you a TBNT. Now you’re commuting for 30 years.

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swakid8@reddit

Then you can you move or commute to a great career at United vs staying a regional…

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Objective-Winter-512@reddit

Exactly my point.

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prex10@reddit

Yeah, really, I had people in my class that got hired here like a year and a half before they would've flowed. Then put into daddy D and got hired like a year before their class mates and like 2000 numbers higher

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Objective-Winter-512@reddit

I’d say a majority of us here all did our time.

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kscessnadriver@reddit

Tell us you live in peachtree city base housing without telling us.

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Objective-Winter-512@reddit

Not really sure what that even means.

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Sheriff_Walrus@reddit

Why couldn’t you get hired outside of the flow over the last few years

Unless they live within driving distance of like, one of three cities, the only way you're gonna live in-base at a regional and a legacy without moving is by working for a WO and flowing to a legacy. I shouldn't have to tell you that getting hired outside of the flow is literally robbing Peter to pay Paul in the eyes of every legacy out there

Also none of these problems are unique to a flow pilot? Unless you know a way to magically increase your seniority aside from waiting, any Legacy New-Hire is gonna be dealing with exactly what OP is referring to...

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Zehro-cool@reddit

I sucks having to start over, but your over all career earning potentials suffer every year you aren’t at a major. I was just talking about this flying with an FO from my same regional about what we missed most about our last job. It was mostly the type of flying we did and all of the small airports. The people were great also. Now we have a big cockpit desk job, fly transcons, and only work in and out of major airports. This type of flying has kind of taken the fun away from the job. However, the paycheck and 401k helps take the pain away from all of that. I’ll keep doing it until the last of the fun is gone and then retire. Now it’s just a battle to see if I can make it to 65 and not just retire early.

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Crusoebear@reddit

Oh no….a whole year or two!

If it makes you feel better - After getting my second furlough in a row post 9/11 I had to commute to another continent for over a year with no tickets or passes from the company with a 50 hr min guarantee for a fraction of what my legacy was paying.

Also had I stayed at my regional…while I would have had some super seniority for a while - eventually it would have ended in a pink slip when they eventually went under.

Ya just never know where life will take you.

But your situation doesn’t sound so bad. The time will pass…you’ll get your home base and this will just be a distant memory.

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golf1415@reddit

I was/am you. Driving to work at my regional. Got to legacy at 43, married 3 kids commuting to reserve. Still commuting but I’m a line holder now, but trips are not commutable and I don’t live in a base. Still happy to be here, but yes sometimes it sucks.

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rotardy@reddit

Look past the next PBS run. It’s worth it. I made the jump too. It was a temporary QOL hit but never for one second did I miss the regional. It’s a dead end job.

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junebug172@reddit

It was called the "disease". The comfort of the status quo keeping from making the jump to the next level because you didn't want to leave the status quo.

The pain is short term and eventually the comfort and routine returns.

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iceman_andre@reddit

My worst day at a legacy still better then my best day at a regional

To be fair…I was at Piece of Shit Airlines

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Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit

You’re complaining about stepping up to a life changing legacy, voluntarily, knowing it has temporary adjustments??

Weird.

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DudeIBangedUrMom@reddit

Report back in 18 months when you're not commuting and the paycheck kicks in.

waaaaaaaa😢

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EQp@reddit

During these 18 months he should make sure to complain to every Capitan he flies with about how terrible it is. I’m sure they’ll be sympathetic, especially the ones with decades at what legacy it is.

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Tight_Ear888@reddit

I aspire to be like you sir

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit

Wait like bang your own mom…?

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swakid8@reddit

That’s a good question lol

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Tight_Ear888@reddit

I DIDN’T say all that

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First-Length6323@reddit

This right here

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Adabar@reddit

I mean this with the absolute most respect, STFU.

You’re at a dream carrier with less than 2 years of QOL and income reduction for a permanent boost in every way possible. How about you go anywhere in town and ask an employee about their problems, and see how it compares to yours.

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ThenurseAviator@reddit

You eventually will move on

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BigJellyfish1906@reddit

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That’s why you do it.

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SpiderMonkPilot@reddit

The best time to plant a tree was yesterday, the second best time is today.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit

Unless it’s winter and the ground is frozen

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Khantahr@reddit

I was at a regional for well over a decade. My QOL was better at a legacy from the day I started, even with a cross country commute (granted that only lasted a few months).

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boobooaboo@reddit

happy to swap ya

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Handag@reddit

I bet your first few years at a regional sucked too. Your thread title should be "I can now understand why some people complain about being junior"

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Lonestar3504@reddit

Curious how long you were at the regionals?

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Right-Suggestion-667@reddit

Short term pain long term gain baby!

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BosoxH60@reddit

I left my regional in early 2022 before the pay bumps hit. I went from \~$50 to \~$100/hour basically overnight. I make more as a year 5 FO than almost a top of the scale CA. Which I still wouldn't be at if I'd stayed. I still drive to work, but I work a lot less to better layover cities, better hotels. I get paid more, I get more retirement contribution. Generally speaking I'm not flying with grumpy captains upset they haven't been able to move on yet. (They have their own gripes).

Staying at a regional when you have the choice is short-sighted and due to lack of imagination. It's short term inconvenience for long term gain.

If commuting is that awful ( I agree, which is why I won't do it unless I'm forced): Move, even if it's temporary until you can get the base you want.

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554TangoAlpha@reddit

Come back here in a couple years lol. You’ll think you were insane for ever thinking of staying at a regional. What happens when said regions goes tits up or closes your base?

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blizzue@reddit

Kids these days.

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Fun_Supermarket1235@reddit

I’m in the same exact boat man. If I could go back to my old job / base / plane / seniority I’d do it in a heartbeat.

What makes it worse for me is that I made a bad choice on day 1. I could have already been back to home base this summer if I picked the other jet. Now I’m probably gonna commute for a long time.

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msct1835@reddit

Hang in there. It does get better. I went through the same process many years ago.

But it isn't for everyone that's for sure.

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Ancient-Dust3077@reddit

How do regular passengers fly regional versus airline flying

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Guam671Bay@reddit

Forest, trees

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dogbreath67@reddit

Maybe zoom out a little? You have to take the first couple years pay cut. Live in base, don’t commute. At least you’re at a real airline now where you are in a better position to get to another airline where you like the bases. The difference in net worth between major and regional is millions, it’s the difference between the career being worth doing and not, because yea, everything about this career except the money does kinda suck. Just be glad you’re at a major , I’m 12 years into this career, at an LCC and still trying to get to a major.

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andrewrbat@reddit

All that noise does turn down a bit when you hit y2 pay and get ur base

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Nyaos@reddit

Commuting always sucks so figure that out but everything else will get better, probably.

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GooseMcGooseFace@reddit

Embrace the suck.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

I recently went from a regional airline to a legacy airline through their flow program. Although I’m happy that I made it to my destination airline, yet I’m having a bit of regrets too. I know the general rule is to get to a major airline ASAP and you’re considered a fool if you don’t, but now I kind of understand why some people don’t. Ever since moving on, my quality of life took a huge turn downwards. I’m back to being an FO, took a pay cut, now I have to commute to reserve and it’s awful. I probably won’t get my home base until a year or two from now; I totally miss being able to drive to work and back home after a trip. I’m in my early 30’s so I know this is the right career move, but holy craps this sucks being back at the bottom. Imagine if I was in my 40’s or 50’s with kids, this would have totally suck. Now I have a bit of empathy for people who stay at a regional for certain reasons and not look down on them for not moving on.

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