The sunken boat reminded me of a tradition with wooden boats
Posted by spexxit@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 59 comments
This is a classic 5mr from 1936, FIN-3 Why Not, in 2022. This was her going in after +7 years on the dry. She sank to the bottom almost straight away when se was launched after some renovations. The additional 240v sump pumps (see the 3 green hoses coming out) couldn't cope with how much she was taking on.
However after a few days the planks swelled tight and with the help of the fire brigade she was refloated.
this is semi common with wooden boats, especially if they've been on the dry for longer periods. We try to impregnate the hull planks with a linseed oil and preservative mix at least every 10-15 years to try and stabilize the wood.
Federal-Dingo-6033@reddit
I had a 1947 wooden snipe I used to have to sink every year and pump out after her planks swelled.
Horatio-Leafblower@reddit
What a beautiful boat
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Yeah, you NEVER launch a wooden boat that has been on the hard for a while until you're sure she will float. I've had to leave a boat in the lift for days until the wood "took up" and expanded to become watertight with large water pumps working around the clock.
It's different for every boat, but you ALWAYS assume it won't float right away.
spexxit@reddit (OP)
We don't have the luxury of leaving the boat in the lift, it's all done by a truck based crane that is billed by the hour and won't leave the truck in position overnight.
Most try to swell up the planks ahead of time, but 2-3 sump pumps are usually enough to keep even the worst offenders floating for the time required to seal the hulls, usually takes 2 days until the boats own bilge pump is sufficient and a week till it's nominal.
Really bad ones will have large capacity pumps run off a diesel motor, but that's rare.
And each launch there will be people from the club making sure the pumps are running and boats are floating through the night. June launch weekends have an amazing vibe since the sun doesn't set for more than an hour. I love those nights.
riddlesinthedark117@reddit
So on the hard, could you pump in the water then pump it out? That would probably be too heavy for the stands, unless it’s quite small, wouldn’t it?
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Yes, it's a common technique, to pre soak the bilges before launching.
slosh_baffle@reddit
I heard people use sprinklers inside when in dry dock. Is that true?
spexxit@reddit (OP)
Not for the whole time, but a week or two before launch definitely. Most common practice is to get carpets and line the hull from the inside with them, and run water over the carpets until launch. But it has to be seawater so sump pumps are used. You'll ruin the hull with fresh water, lack of salt will let rot go wild.
Another one that I'm seeing is people using piezoelectric plates in a bucket of salt water to vaporize and distribute the water that way. I'm intrigued by that one and need to try it myself.
slosh_baffle@reddit
Interesting! I'm familiar with those as a professional mushroom farmer. Let me know if you need a recommendation.
Switchmisty9@reddit
Most people just run a hose into it, while she’s sitting on stands.
Grampus2080@reddit
Knarr
CornishPaddy@reddit
Where I'm from we call it 'Staunching', to fully fill it up.
The wooden boat I race on is a 1937, and she leaks a fair amount at the start of each season, but a few weeks later she's all good, no need to fully dunk her.
AlarianDarkWind11@reddit
My grandfather used to have a wood duck hunting boat. I remember every year he would get it out a week before hunting and start filling it with water. After a few days it was tight as a drum and didn't leak at all while out on the duck slough.
imissmolly1@reddit
Almost made me cry, glad it worked out well in the end,
spexxit@reddit (OP)
This actually worked out great, as the sides got water too, so that it didn't leak while heeling all season.
We have a wooden folkboat and our sides always leak quite a bit.
imissmolly1@reddit
Things of wood need what wood needs I work with barrels and if we want them tight they need wet.
CharterJet50@reddit
Was that a single planked or double planked hull? There is a myth that has grown up in the wooden motor boat world over the years that the old double planked wooden motor boats were designed to leak and needed swelling every year. It is true that many of them need swelling, but that isnt how they were designed, and it’s a bit idk around at best. Old Chris crafts and other double planked hulls had a hull design life of ten to fifteen years max, after which they were to be returned to the factory for renovation. The oiled canvass later sandwiched between the two layers of planks would dry out and eventually disintegrate, leaving the wood alone to maintain a water seal. As people kept these boats longer and longer without replacing the canvass, the wood would go through cycles of swelling and drying, slowly working fasteners loose to the point where they will sink without careful swelling of the planks. This is not how they were supposed to live, and eventually as fasteners loosen further, you end up with an unsafe boat. Lots of them around. I won’t take a ride in a very old boat that requires swelling at this point. The fix for double planked boats is to either replace the canvass layer and commit to renovation every ten years, or replace with a no soak bottom using 3M 5200 between the layers, or some alternatives that have been tried. Fiberglass over wood or epoxy has also been done, but both have serious issues. Modern cold molded hulls can work well but are designed completely differently. I have a thirty year old 5200 hull on a 80 year old Chris Craft and it doesn’t leak a drop ever. I don’t know how this sailboat was designed, but if it leaked that badly, it’s obviously a sign that it relies on the kind of expansion and drying that will eventually, over years, damage the fasteners. I saw this first hand when I refastened our entire boat during renovation and found more than a third of all fasteners were cracked in half. The boat was held together by varnish. Lots of boats out there like that.
ppitm@reddit
It's not a myth about any particular construction technique, just a fact of life for aging wooden boats in general. Caulking wears out, and eventually a hull will need to be kept wet and swelled or it will leak.
Of course, you also have clinker/lapstrake hulls that were never caulked in the first place. Those often have to swell up when launched.
CharterJet50@reddit
Double planked hulls don’t have caulking and never should. It’s only a fact of life because people are keeping hulls decades past their design life and basically using them in a way they were not designed for.
ppitm@reddit
Maybe double-planked motor boat hulls have a 'design life.' Traditional methods of boat construction do not. You just keep doing maintenance and replacing parts ad infinitum. Wooden boats inevitably leak eventually.
spexxit@reddit (OP)
Regular carvel single planked hull. I'm unsure if these are caulked or not actually. Usually only the larger carvel planked boats in Finland get caulked.
But I'm more familiar to clinker/lapstrake which is very common here.
OptiMom1534@reddit
Shipwright & wooden yacht aficionado here. this is not semi-common. Taking on a little extra water in the bilge before the planks swell… fine. Sinking: not really fine.
spexxit@reddit (OP)
I've been in the wooden boat scene since I was a kid, and design boats for a living as a naval architect here :D
And here "semi" is the operative word, and probably a very regional "fact". To back it up with anecdotal evidence, our boat club had a long streak of one wooden boat "sinking" like this every year. However we have one of the largest wooden yacht fleets in Finland so that might affect that.
Now is it desirable to sink a boat? no. But as I said, this boat was on the dry for many many years, and it is quite typical for a boat that hasn't seen the water for that long to have gaps between planks that are too wide to close up fast enough to not "sink". As is my understanding, this size of boat is rarely caulked here as might be the case in north America or elsewhere, and the planks swelling is what seals the hull. However my experience is more with our clinker planked hulls.
Also, here the wooden boats are owned, maintained and operated by regular people with regular jobs and Sometimes the best care isn't possible and people make do. So some of the hulls get neglected and end up at the bottom, if only momentarily, but not infrequently.
melmerby102@reddit
We used to sink our wooden boat every spring. Now I just hold her with the jib crane at the yacht club until she swells up.
Radixx@reddit
Check out "The Boat that Wouldn't Float" by Farley Mowat (Never Cry Wolf author). He would run his wooden boat into the mud every so often to help seal the leaks :)
Free_Range_Lobster@reddit
He was also a bit of a trainwreck, so there's that.
DugansDad@reddit
Never Cry Wolf still one of my favorite movies.
papagoose08@reddit
I love that movie as well. Such beautiful cinematography. I need to try the book now.
whistleridge@reddit
He clearly had a massive case of untreated PTSD, plus some lingering issues from how he was parented. His books are basically “man with nerdy interests who was broken by the war spends decades cobbling a life together, highlighted by an appreciation for the absurd.” I like his books - he’s a good writer - but I feel sorry for him as a human being.
And yeah: he didn’t have absolutely NO idea how to handle one of those boats, but the book is still a display of enthusiastic amateurism and a lot of his adventures could have been prevented with a little learning and planning.
Free_Range_Lobster@reddit
Add in being a newfie ontop of that and YAHTZEE! ADVENTURE DISASTERS AHOY!
sailingmusician@reddit
Such a great author.
futurebigconcept@reddit
He wrote a chronicle of a coal-fired, ocean-going salvage tug that operated in the North Atlantic through WW2. Great read, The Grey Seas Under.
foremastjack@reddit
I believe it was he who said “Never let the facts stand in the way of truth”.
TheVoiceOfEurope@reddit
We (sea scouts) do the same with our wooden sloops as they come out of winter storage and maintenance: they go in the water and they just sink up to the gunwhales. After a week we pump them dry and they remain waterproof.
If you don't let them sink, every time you heel over, water comes in between the planks.
hilomania@reddit
When I grew up we had a strip planked boat in Holland a "16 kwadraat" (16 squared, it carried 16 sm of sails). Every spring after winter work those things would go into the water, sink, be pumped out a week later. Some of them were quite old, Axe of Theseus and such...
They make the same boats now but out of fiberglass. It's not the same.
Bazza79@reddit
Also known as a BM, beautiful boats but a chore to maintain.
hilomania@reddit
That's why me father had me. SO I could sand and varnish in winter. Last boat I rented in the Netherlands was a "Regenboog" but that boat is made out of fiberglass as well nowadays.
t-ride@reddit
Is that a 6M?
spexxit@reddit (OP)
No, a 5 meter.
dirigibleplum87@reddit
Was she okay after she was refloated?
Doesn't look like the type to have an inboard, saves a lot of trouble if true.
Truly a beautiful boat. Seeing a classic wooden boat meet their end is so much more heartbreaking than a FG boat. And that's coming from a FG boat owner.
spexxit@reddit (OP)
These don't have an inboard, no. She was mostly fine, just needed a wash.
Our sea in Finland is brackish (7g of salt per kg of water), so not as salty as the ocean (35g / kg) so that helps as well.
BoredPineapple790@reddit
I guess you don’t have to worry about ship worms then
spexxit@reddit (OP)
No, which is a huge plus. But the salt would be good for the wood otherwise. Hull planks rot much easier here.
SailingSpark@reddit
Friends had a classic wooden Chris Craft cabin cruiser. Every spring it spends overnight in the slings until she finishes swelling up.
LameBMX@reddit
is it sunk or is it just taking up?
EmVRiaves@reddit
We still do it every year.
ppitm@reddit
Linseed oil won't impregnate anything, it is just a coating that protects from UV and can help moderate moisture content. You can easily and cheaply build up a very thick layer in the bilge so the planks barely touch water.
Willfredwin@reddit
An old trick was to work toilet bowl wax seal into the seams and gaps. When the boat swells, the wax squeezes out. Better than nothin'.
HTDutchy_NL@reddit
And that's why we often threw in the garden hose while sitting on the trailer. Get it mostly closed up before launching.
Complex_Most3656@reddit
We used to cover the water with sawdust at the marina I worked with when we launched wood boats and then hang them in the slings kovee the weekend.
Johnny-Virgil@reddit
What did the sawdust do?
SeaPhile206@reddit
Helps fill in gaps as the water enters.
AM81inMA@reddit
My family had a wooden boat (Atkins Knockabout 30) thru the 80s and 90s. After a winter out of the water she usually needed to sit in the slings on the lift for a week or so with pumps going full time till the seams tightened back up.
MathematicianSlow648@reddit
Matter of opinion.
Farley Mowat Canadian author documentary
https://youtu.be/UA4vd0NM1bs
wolfskipper@reddit
With a wooden boat that's been out of the water for a period of time she needs to "take up" after launch, which means the planks need to swell to close the seams. It can be an alarming experience if one doesn't expect it...
refriedconfusion@reddit
I have a friend who has several boats in storage on the bottom of the bay, He sunk them several years ago to prevent them from drying out.
juliethoteloscar@reddit
Some people throw sawdust in the water as they launch their wooden boat, the idea is for the sawdust to be pulled in along with the water entering through the cracks and clogging them, helping seal the hull enough for the pumps to keep up until the boards swell properly
DemandNo3158@reddit
Takes a couple days for my old C-scow to swell tight. A common practice. Thanks 👍
Mehfisto666@reddit
There is a very popular saying in Norwegian, I believe from Lofoten, that goes "Du må beise sjarken, eller så søkk han" which translates to "you must oil the shark or it will sink".
"Sharks" are the traditional fishing vessels with the pilothouse towards the bow. They are still the most common design for small fishing boats. Once they were made out of wood they needed oiling the bottom for the reasons you mention.
In everyday's life the proverb means that if you dont take good care of what you have eventually you will lose them