Why don't we have country of origin label laws in the UK?
Posted by boycott_all_rats@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 78 comments
in Australia it's a legal requirement to have the country of origin on any food packaging. I've found since being in the UK that isn't a thing and I find myself stuck wondering where many items are from.
bonus question would be are you ok not knowing if a brand moves its manufacturing to a 3rd world country
Ok_Cod5649@reddit
The UK does, albeit it is still affected by EU law - both formally (in Northern Ireland) and informally, in the interests of exporting the EU.
The EU has strict rules on what precise types of food origin labelling are required. A good example are oils, which must represent the location of bottling, not where the underlying crop was grown. This leads to situations where Greek olive oil is exported to Italy for bottling as "Italian" olive oil.
matomo23@reddit
Have a look in your cupboards and then come back to us.
AdNumerous97@reddit
Ok, I’m game. Checking my cupboards and fridge.
Ikea Ekologisk Sylt Lingon (the best lingonberry jam I’ve ever had): made in Sweden. Paul’s Zymil (lactose free milk): Made in Aust from at least 99% Australian ingredients (I don’t think I’d find a non-Aust milk in my shops here to be honest) St. Dalfour “fruit spread” (oh no, it’s not jam?! Why, HOW is it not jam?) - made in France by local and imported ingredients. Patak’s curry sauce (in a jar): made in the UK Coles (cheap “home brand”) tin of “Italian diced tomato” - product of Italy.
Holy meatballs, see, I did say we take our own rules for granted. Much of my cold produce is fresh local stuff. Some of the pantry stuff surprised me. I was certain that most of the brands sold in our stores are probably Australian-first focussed.
matomo23@reddit
Dairy stuff has to say where it’s from. Try some savoury stuff. Chocolate won’t say, crisps won’t. Even ketchup. Cereal won’t either. There’s a LOT which won’t say where it’s from, my point is we don’t have a universal system like in Australia where everything has to.
AdNumerous97@reddit
Hehe, sorry for adding any confusion! Yep, my above comment was from Australia and it shook me that I was so oblivious to it because it’s always been naturally expected here.
I’m tempted to check my chocolate, cereal etc to confirm 😅
Hujefshk@reddit
Does anyone know about amazon eu and uk new country origin policy and how to tackle it?
AdNumerous97@reddit
Admittedly I’m an Aussie living with strict rules around reporting. I joined this sub because I’m visiting the UK in summer for the first time but this post intrigued me!
Another commenter said it most succinctly: the more important part is standards compliance and adherence to regulations. But I’m going to expand on this.
TL;DR
I agree the more important issue is standards compliance and adherence to regulations, rather than just where a product comes from. Different jurisdictions have different regulatory philosophies and priorities, so transparent reporting matters for ethical, health and safety, and environmental reasons. I also believe that if a product is sold in a jurisdiction, it must meet that jurisdiction’s standards. If something doesn’t, I’m sure it can be reported.
The EU is seen to take a cautionary approach to food regulation, more so than the US for example. I’d imagine the UK is similar, though I haven’t looked into it. But as I’ve discovered today Northern Island is under EU regulations. There is just a difference in philosophies to regulation, and provided you’re comfortable with the EU’s philosophy and management of compliance, it should be fine!
I can guarantee we take our own regulations for granted here but it’s ingrained in Australian values. While the “Aussie made” green and gold kangaroo certifies that something was mostly grown in, produced in or went through “creation” in Australia, ingredients can still come from overseas provided they are compliant with our food and bio security standards and laws. The focus is on supporting the Australian economy and job market, that products meet high quality of standards, ethical labour and environmental sustainability.
Transparent reporting is therefore important for these ethical, health and safety, and environmental reasons. Given there are different standards or levels of adherence to standards in different countries, I think the reason for transparency of manufacture is about how the regulator in the manufacturing country prioritises ethics, health, safety etc over the actual food.
What a priority is for regulators can be subjective based on the jurisdiction. Australia’s SPF products are very very important because of our extremely high rate of skin cancer. Therefore we’ve got the most strictly regulated SPF industry in the world… let’s just not discuss recent media about SPF recalls.
I don’t think it’s as much about the source of produce being from a developed vs developing nation, given there are differences between regulators in developed countries. It’s evident across many different food ingredients and additives. One approach might not suit all.
An example of a food not allowed in Australia is basmati rice from Pakistan, due to contamination of pesticides that are banned from use on crops in Australia. Food Standards Australia and New Zealand are quite strict and sometimes a banned product is banned to protect our local biosecurity or agricultural industry, not necessarily that the banned outside food is “bad”. Hell, even domestically, our farming regions have biosecurity quarantine zones (literally called “fruit fly free” zones) where before entry, Department of Industry officers can inspect your car for fruit and throw it away / fine you.
Besides, is Northern Island subject to the ban on EU cheese and meat? I hope you can still get decent cheese 🧀
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
This is a really good reply. Thankyou.
I can't boycott stuff if I can't tell where it's from easily. So for me it matters.
AdNumerous97@reddit
Honestly, I don’t boycott things just by what’s reported on packaging.
I’d expect under EU regulation that food traceability is still required.
If your reasoning is political to boycott things, you may need to do some research on companies.
neilm1000@reddit
I am not fine with this. When I worked for Wetherspoons, someone asked me if the half chickens was free range to which my response was 'no, it comes from Thailand.'
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Yeah see I don't want Asian chicken.
And this isn't me being racist I have lived in and love Asia. But I have eyeballs. While in Hong Kong I drink Aussie milk lol. The fact that you can just buy it at 711 fresh non UHT milk should tell everyone enough about the local stuff.
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
The issue in Hong Kong isn’t that they don’t trust local milk, they don’t have a lot of farm land so they have to rely on importing to meet demands. You kind of are being racist, despite not wanting to be, because that comment is an example of microaggression.
Ecstatic_Food1982@reddit
Aah peak Reddit. How the heck is this a 'micro aggression.'
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
Here is the definition. You can read for yourself. If you disagree, then that’s fair enough.
AdNumerous97@reddit
I’d like to break down OP’s comment about milk a bit to understand why you think it’s microaggression and racist.
I’m agreeing that they have high population, high demand, and low land space for production, so of course import from another locale is required.
For the sake of clarity and comparison, let’s look at the import distances:
Hong Kong to China is geographically pretty close up to, say, 2000km away at the furthest?
Hong Kong to Japan: between 2-3000km.
Hong Kong to Australia: 7,300-7,500km.
So, I mean China has a pretty high land mass - why wouldn’t Hong Kong import directly from China? It’s closest and technically it’s one nation, two systems right?
Is it Political issues? Maybe.
Could it be related to the 2008 melamine crisis? Most likely.
The Melamine Incident: Implications for International Food and Feed Safety
“melamine was found in liquid milk and yogurts, frozen deserts, powdered milk and cereal products, confectionaries, cakes and biscuits, protein powders, and some processed foodstuffs. Subsequently, a variety of nondairy products originating from China were found to be contaminated with melamine. These products included ammonium bicarbonate [Rapid Alert System for Food and Feed (RASFF) 2008c], animal feed and animal feed ingredients (RASFF 2008b, 2008c), dried whole egg, fresh hen eggs (Centre for Food Safety 2008), and nondairy creamer (Korean Food and Drug Administration 2008).”
I’m going to suggest that a lot of people internationally may have become more cautious in trusting Chinese food exports after this event occurred. With such widespread contamination internationally, it’s evident there were regulatory failures to some degree. I won’t even go down the path of discussing corruption other than to acknowledge that it exists in the world and from what I can tell from a very quick google, it’s unknown whether it was investigated or revealed in this situation.
For a micro-example compared to the above, I’ll call out failures in lab testing of SPF products that became scandalous here in Australia. Expensive branded sun protection products were in some cases exposed as significantly underperforming against their claimed SPF rating. Australians need to use high SPF ratings for obvious reasons. it’s common here to see SPF50+ everywhere. Yet when a scientific study finds that a brand claiming 50+ comes to about 4.. it’s controversial. That was an Australian brand. The people who own that brand really fucked up in their PR response and didn’t take accountability until they’d destroyed their reputation publicly. That, however, caused a lot more media attention and ultimately more people became aware of the controversy which, in my view, has increased skepticism and is a good thing.
Back to food..
Aside from potentially using informal language to describe the difference between geographically close products available vs imports (ie “local stuff”) that might offend you, I think OPs point wasn’t about race. I figure it was more about how different food standards are upheld in different places.
ActionBirbie@reddit
Anybody using tankie words deserves to be permabanned from ever interacting with another human.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Wrong. They import milk from down the road in china.
Hong Kong is in china. My local 711 in Australia isn't importing Chinese milk on a plane. Figure it out.
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
Politically/geographically yes it’s in China but a lot of people would view them separately. They don’t even share the same legal system.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
For the sake of milk transport they are one country
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
Why are you so aggy? Calm down.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Bro called me racist for saying Asian dairy products are shit.....
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
Read what you’re saying and tell me what you’re saying right now isn’t racist. I even initially said it may not have been your intention. But fuck that you’re definitely being racist now.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Asian dairy products are shit.
That's a fact. China would import every last drop of milk from Australia if it could. Not because it can't make its own. But because there is a quality difference.
And even Australian dairy for the most part is shit.
Oh no now he's being racist to the dingos
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blahblahblah1234_@reddit
You sound like a very angry person. It is not a good look.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Yeah bro. From the guy that sees racism everywhere lol
Any other delusional wisdom mate?
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
I’m not your bro. You really need to calm down and maybe step away from this conversation now.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
😂😂😂😂 oi mate, stop being racist
neilm1000@reddit
There's no racism here. Point to the racism.
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
A blanket statement about a diverse region and framing it as an objective fact rather than subjective preference. And then continuing to double down and using dismissive language in this context. Yeh sounds pretty xenophobic and racist to me. I’m not insisting you agree, you are free to think what you like.
theonetruethingfish@reddit
Many Hongkongers would rather drink Australian or Japanese milk rather than imported milk from China. That’s nothing to do with racism, it’s a reflection of the standards in those countries.
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
I am not saying what milk people from HK prefer. I’m just saying Hong Kong doesn’t have the capacity to produce it themselves hence why they import.
Japan and South Korea for example don’t have that same issue.
DameKumquat@reddit
There are Red Tractor-accredited farms in Thailand, Vietnam and China. Not free range accredited as far as I know, but the same as UK broiler shed standards.
Crappy chicken from the Thailand farms is the same as crappy chicken from Norfolk.
polkadotska@reddit
A lot of food manufacturing now has a multi-step process. So the tomatoes for your pasta sauce might have been grown in the Netherlands, the peppers might have been grown in Spain, the oil may have come from Indonesia etc. The ingredients may then have been separately shipped to Germany and prepared and cooked there, and then the whole thing might then be bottled across the border back in the Netherlands. What do you put on the label?
Even single-ingredient stuff, if any level of packaging of processing is applied, may involve multiple countries. Your pineapple may have been grown in Hawaii, but was then shipped for processing (peeling, chopping) somewhere in the far east, before going back to the US for onwards distribution to the UK. Manufacturing and distributions chains are weird.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Yeah all the more reason to have accurate labels.
If a product is made in Germany proudly stating it's heritage it should have to show what percentage of the actual product is german
https://www.foodprocessing.com.au/content/business-solutions/news/country-of-origin-labelling-gets-the-go-ahead-927635691
It's great.
MountainMuffin1980@reddit
We absolutely do though?
Are you in NI?
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Yeah but I shop at Tesco and virtually every item is lacking country of origin and manufacturing address.
This to me should be essential on everything sold. There's no way every item in the massive Tesco next to me is just made for eu items.
matomo23@reddit
You’re correct. Not sure why people are arguing with you whenever they only have to look in their own cupboards!
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
They nearly have me thinking Tesco ni uses a complete different supply chain but that makes next to no sense. Sure certain items may be different in ni but the vast majority of that shop will be the same supply chain meaning the same packaging you all get across the pond.
The only stuff I can find that shows origin is when it's used as a pride symbol.
Like all French cheese must be good.... When it isn't lol.
I just spent some time rechecking my pantry and fridge and 90 percent of it is not labelled correctly imo.
matomo23@reddit
No of course Tesco NI doesn’t. You don’t have different food products in NI in any way really! I totally agree with you.
MountainMuffin1980@reddit
But we have legislation that requires it? Most of the things I've looked at in our kitchen from Tesco have the country of origin. But they all have contact details for the manufacturer/a website. I wonder if there's a loophole there for it?
matomo23@reddit
We don’t have legislation for it!
The legislation just says you have to put country of origin if the customer could be confused as to where the product is made. As in they may think an Italian style pizza is made in Italy, you’d have to put that it’s made in the UK.
The law does say you have to put a UK office address on everything. But that’s not the same thing.
MountainMuffin1980@reddit
I mean...mahne they are? We literally have kegislatiom that require it. There are some exceptions as some items have their own specific regulations which includes:
bread and flour
cocoa and chocolate products
soluble coffee
milk products
honey
fruit juices and nectars
infant formula
jams and marmalade
meat products - sausages, burgers and pies
fish
natural mineral waters
spreadable fats
sugars
irradiated food
foods containing genetic modification (GM)
But otherwise yeah, they have to have the country of origin and the manufacturers address etc
CornishDebs@reddit
I only buy what can be proved. Meat and veg are British or Irish. Or Australian for lamb. Fruit is fair trade. Eggs British. I try to buy as much British as I can do I know it's good stuff.
CornishDebs@reddit
And Cathedral city cheese made here in Cornwall with Cornish milk.
AdNumerous97@reddit
How much does Australian lamb cost you over there?! I’m very curious!
CornishDebs@reddit
A leg of lamb is around £25 to £30.
t-a-n-n-e-r-@reddit
The issue isn't where it comes from, the issue is standards compliance. If the standards are met, I don't really care.
theonetruethingfish@reddit
That’s why country of origin is important. Many countries don’t enforce standards that would be acceptable in the UK.
ActionBirbie@reddit
Well that's surely a duplication of effort, no?
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
As an example the Cornetto moves from Europe to Asia the milk is worse the taste is worse the price is the same and you don't get to see as a consumer why it got worse.
I think it's important that if I buy sweets for a kid that they aren't made in china with the cheapest ingredients possible.
Mysterious_Research2@reddit
We do: https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/packaging-and-labelling
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Hang on now. I swear this always happens. Because I'm in northern Ireland I don't get to see where my food is from because of the eu?
Did I read that the right way?
Ecstatic_Food1982@reddit
For some things, yes.
AdNumerous97@reddit
Looks like it to me - that is, if the EU law doesn’t require country of origin reporting.
matomo23@reddit
We don’t. They only have to put it on if it’s misleading to leave it off.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
At best found British milk on Tesco yogurt could have been bottled in Asia for all anyone knows obviously it wasn't cause this is a bad example but the point is there
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Everything I buy from Tesco doesn't have it. They aren't making me a different bottle.
matomo23@reddit
I agree. I thought the same when I noticed it in Australia.
Most of the food and toiletries in my house don’t have a country of origin. Yes they have a UK office address listed but that’s not the same thing.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Yupp
sockeyejo@reddit
We do.
matomo23@reddit
I mean we don’t. There’s loads of products in any supermarket that don’t say where they were manufactured. I’ve noticed it too.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Not here
Mysterious_Research2@reddit
500 barcode = From UK
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
That's actually pretty handy. Thankyou
Mysterious_Research2@reddit
Country codes here: https://www.barcodestalk.com/learn-about-barcodes/resources/barcode-country-codes
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Or here
Mysterious_Research2@reddit
Innocent bottling plant is in Rotterdam
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
You sir are a wizard. I don't suppose you are free once a week for about an hour?
MaximumRequirement60@reddit
Fairly sure these have an NL stamp, you see the factory as you pull into Rotterdam on the ferry.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
That's like playing where's Wally without knowing who Wally is.
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
Or here
Mysterious_Research2@reddit
761 barcode = Switzerland or Liechtenstein
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
I can't carry this book when I shop though lol
Prestigious_Bass7194@reddit
Israel
HappyThrasher99@reddit
Most of the food is soylent green thats why
boycott_all_rats@reddit (OP)
🧐
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