VOR Course Reversal Question
Posted by reddit231200@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 20 comments
If I am flying direct to the DRK VOR outbound planning to do a teardrop course reversal, when exactly do I execute the turn to 350°? My initial gut feeling is to turn once you pass the VOR but the chart is depicting the turn much farther away. I’m assuming that’s just for the sake of space on the chart but clarification would be appreciated.
Agreeable_Actuary881@reddit
From my experience on my IFR checkride and training in a C172(not a CFII) I would start a 1 minute timer at 90-100KIAS after crossing DRK (note is an IAF) then after the minute has passed start the outbound procedure turn to 350° count another minute then turn left heading 170° till establish in the inbound course after that continue the IAP to MDA Also the turns at are at your discretion faster you are the more distance you’ll cover and you must stay within 10NM from DRK VOR (note in the Profile view) Hope it was helpful:)
Brock-And-Roll@reddit
I actually unsat my IR checkride on this exact approach 🤦♂️.
My advice is to go as far out as you can without busting the 10 NM limit. Given the steep nature of the approach, more distance is better.
I was a fool and did the turn too soon, was extremely high, and descended too early to try and save it before positive course guidance during the procedure turn inbound. Don’t be like me 😂
Mike__O@reddit
You make your turn when you have sufficient space to complete your procedure turn and intercept the final approach course inbound with sufficient space to descend to the runway on a normal glidepath to make a safe landing. It's pilot's discretion about where those points are.
Your only procedural restrictions for this are to remain within the 10nm remain-within distance and turn on the maneuvering (north in this case) side of the approach.
reddit231200@reddit (OP)
This makes sense, thanks for the help!
YogurtclosetLanky322@reddit
I do around 5NM for this approach. Then when you do turn back on course turn outbound.
Vellian1@reddit
Anytime after the VOR when you can complete the turn and stay within 10 DME of DRK. I flew this approach on my checkride the other week, I think I started the turn at 7 DME from DRK.
MangledX@reddit
The only requirement is that you stay within ten miles, as depicted on the chart itself. Outside of that, whenever you can reasonably get the machine turned back in safely.
Canon40@reddit
Personally, I would cross the VOR add or above 8500, fly outbound one minute while descending to 8500, 45° right, one minute, left turn to re-intercept, descend from 8500 to 6600 once reestablished inbound.
Don’t know if that is the perfect textbook DPE hard-ass answer, but that is what I would do in the real world.
HopefulSection9918@reddit
My rule of thumb has always been 1-2 minutes out from crossing the VOR in my PA-28 since that keeps me within the 10nm range
Accurate_Drag_8490@reddit
What’s your rate of descent on that 1900’ drop?
Accurate_Drag_8490@reddit
To make it “easy” focus on the distance needed to descend. You need to go from 8500’ to 6600’. Using a 3° descent, you drop 1000’ per 3 miles. Since you need to drop 1900’ you need (rounding up) 6 miles. This means you should start your procedure turn 6 miles after crossing the VOR. You can change this as you gain experience and learn the formulas and your airplane, but you should know the 1000’ per 3 miles at a bare minimum. In order to figure out your VSI FPM descent to descent at 3°, you take ground speed and multiply by 5. For example if you are doing 100kts GS, you would need (100x5)=500fpm descent to drop 1000 feet in 3 miles. Do some math before hand on what your approach speeds and FPM descent is going to possibly be and know the rough numbers because we all know you don’t want to do math during an approach. For example, 90kts GSx5=450fpm descent and 110 GS x 5 = 550fpm. As you can see for each 10 knots added you add 50fpm. I hope this helps and is easy to understand, let me know if you need clarification or more.
Goingfor2@reddit
This is not a teardrop course reversal. A teardrop course reversal will have the entire teardrop maneuver charted. This is a standard procedure turn and the turn just needs to be executed at any point you want remaining within 10NM of the VOR as noted in the profile view of the approach plate.
makgross@reddit
A particular form for the course reversal is not proscribed. It just has to be on the correct side and within 10 miles. Substituting a HILPT is completely legit, and a teardrop entry is a good choice. See AIM 5-4-9.a.1.
Mossieoak@reddit
Thank god I thought I was going crazy
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
I do this approach a lot. So you want to give yourself enough time room to comfortably turn around while staying within 10 miles or drk. I usually go out about 4 in a 172 before begining the course reversal. That sets me up in a comfortable stable decent when I turn inbound
sniper4273@reddit
Also keep in mind, you have to fly out far enough to give yourself enough distance to descend from 8500 to 6600 on the inbound leg. I promise if you turned immediately after the VOR, you’d have a bad time on the inbound leg. Been there, done that. Would not recommend.
BosoxH60@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/yTCOzbSvdZ
All of this^
When I was actually doing these in training, we were doing 90 kias in a helicopter. We would do 1 minute outbound, turn to 350, do about a minute, make the left 180 to 170, intercept the inbound.
Why 1 minute? Because it worked for us, it was consistent, and in hindsight, I suspect because it had the familiarity of holding.
CaptainLarryLobster@reddit
At 100kts: VOR on station - 3:00 outbound/ VOR off station - 2:00 outbound. This isn’t a rule, just a useful tool. You just need to stay within the prescribed area (10nm) and have enough time to get down to MDA once inbound.
FastNefariousness973@reddit
You just need to ensure you stay within 10 NM of the VOR
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
If I am flying direct to the DRK VOR outbound planning to do a teardrop course reversal, when exactly do I execute the turn to 350°? My initial gut feeling is to turn once you pass the VOR but the chart is depicting the turn much farther away. I’m assuming that’s just for the sake of space on the chart but clarification would be appreciated.
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