America did not agree that ceasefire would cover Lebanon, says Vance
Posted by Britstuckinamerica@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 175 comments
Posted by Britstuckinamerica@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 175 comments
manhattanabe@reddit
The whole fiction that attacks from Lebanon on Israel are not Iranian is unraveling. Clearly, Iran has been attacking Israel with missiles for decades.
Boysandberries0@reddit
Why are they doing that? Couldnt be the ethnic cleansing right?
Couldn't be that tho.
manhattanabe@reddit
Yeah, Iran has been trying to ethnic cleans the Jews from Palestine since 1979. Hasn’t gone they well for them so far.
Damaniel2@reddit
Only because the US has spent all of that time propping them up.
Tangentkoala@reddit
If this was a legit misunderstanding then fire every war cabinet member.
Its like this is so stupid and unbelievable, yet I think this is what legitatemetly actually happened. Which kind of explains why the oil barrels have held steady.
A simple ammendment to not attack any of iran proxies during this time from any of american allies including but not limited to israel, a guy named israel, a unilateral decision by netenyahu, a guy named zionist, or a rogue groupe of nations called zionsim. This would keep things going.
MarmotFullofWoe@reddit
It’s not a misunderstanding
So Trump tried to bluff his way through and failed. That’s all it is.
NearABE@reddit
Nonsense, if we used one tenth of the bombs that we used on Tehran on Tel Aviv instead they would stop grabbing land.
Though, obviously, there are peaceful options that are readily available. Start by just cutting off military aid to the aggressor. It really is that stupidly easy.
But since I am in USA all problems are addressed by deciding which targets are priority. There are definitely signs that a problem is located in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Recklessly bombing Jerusalem would endanger sites that are important to religions and tourists. So by process of elimination…
MarmotFullofWoe@reddit
I agree with you.
But don’t forget that Iran has cut off access to the Gulf States. Solving the Israel problem does not solve the Gulf States problem.
NearABE@reddit
The Israeli State started the war with Iran. Of course we (USA) are fully responsible for electing an idiot criminal who joins them in wars.
ChillAhriman@reddit
It's obvious that Trump got lobbied into a quagmire by Israel and now doesn't know how to get out of it. The recent reporting about what was going on in closed doors in the White House prior to the start of the war is very telling.
pkosuda@reddit
Do you have a link or anything? That sounds very interesting.
amphibia__enjoyer@reddit
NYT story on it
There was prior, more vague reporting by the same outlet that already pointed towards it, this report just fleshes out what was hinted at.
NearABE@reddit
There was a direct and blatant statement made by the Secretary of State to the press on television.
gregorydgraham@reddit
What a gullible idiot.
pkosuda@reddit
Thank you so much!!
dharms@reddit
Even though Trump doesn't even need to take Israeli opinion into account. US could force Israel to stop the attack if they wanted to.
tsardonicpseudonomi@reddit
Market manipulation. He's tried bluffing and it didn't work so he bluffed harder and people bought it for just long enough for the short sellers to make bank. Millions upon millions. That's not even covering the gambling markets.
caramelizedonion92@reddit
Why would anyone trust what the US says about negotiations? After their past 2 cowardly surprise attacks during negotiations, and assassinating negotiators and moderate voices? They are obviously lying.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Because negotiations are an essential part of war.
Else, the US would still win in the end if things should be decided by military might.
NNKarma@reddit
Trust is also an essential part of negotiation.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Won't say no to that.
Just have to include, for any trust building to happen, the involves parties have to first establish firm platform for it.
This time, Iran messed up by not considering the government of Lebanon into the topic.
They probably thought, Hezbollah would be automatically translated into Lebanon as a whole.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
How do you get 'Iran messed up' from 'Two of three parties to the negotiations claim Lebanon was part of the ceasefire'
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
For not being aware enough that Lebanon is divided.
And forgetting how much of an opportunist Israel are.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Again, how is that 'Iran messed up'? Lebanon being divided or not divided has no bearing on whether or not Lebanon was part of any ceasefire deal. Nor is the US claim that Lebanon isn't part of any deal predicated on any divisions in Lebanon but a fundamental disagreement on whether it was ever included.
Nor is Israeli opportunism 'Iran messing up'.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
A country, divided and being included vaguely on the ceasefire deal between two outside countries produces loop hole to any deal.
It should've been discussed more in depth, with proper Lebanese authorities present.
It has every weight and reason to be a cause of messing up.
Who do you think Iran is at war with aside from US?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Not a single source I've seen or any commentary anywhere by anyone even hints that the problem at hand is disagreements over any distinction between 'Lebanon' and Hezbollah'. Where are you getting this from?
Like, this isn't difficult: As part of the ceasefire the expectation seems to be that Iran would cease firing on not just the US (the only counterparty to the ceasefire negotiations) but also Israel and all of the American proxies (the GCC nations, Turkey, etc). It stands to reason that in return, the US (and Israel, if the US realistically expected an actual cessation of firing) would cease firing on Iran and its proxies.
That certainly seems to be the Pakistani understanding of things.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Hence why I said contracts need to be on point, and that Iran should've known how much of an opportunist Israel would be.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
And according to two of the three parties, they did.
So. One last time: Where are you getting this?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
They didn't, no Lebanese official or Hezbollah was present.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You don't need a Lebanese or Hezbollah official to be present in order for Lebanon to be included in a ceasefire. Kinda like how an Israeli or an Omani or a Qatari or an Emirati or a Saudi or an Iraqi offial was also not present and yet, somehow, they still managed to be covered under the ceasefire agreement.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Hence why I specify Lebanon being divided provided loopholes.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
What loophole are you imagining here? Is there any evidence at all that supports the idea that Israel is taking advantage of Iran not explicitly specifying 'Hezbollah'?
Because their statements state pretty clearly that Lebanon is not included in the ceasefire, not that Hezbollah is not included in the ceasefire. It seems like you're just making things up out of whole cloth and not engaging with any of the facts on the ground or statements made by any of the players. It's might be fun as a brain stretching exercise but...
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Nothing to imagine, other than facts on the ground. 2 of three says Lebanon is included, the other 1 says it is not.
That only means a loophole to the ceasfire deal between US(and Israel) and Iran with Pakistan as intermediary has been found.
*Shoutout to Indonesia for trying to volunteer first to be the venue for talks. They've been ignored...
Although there are articles stated by Trump on an interview lavels the fight with Hezbollah a different skirmish. That doesn't really answer anything.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
This is the imaginary part. You don't get from the facts '2 of three says Lebanon is included, the other 1 says it is not' to 'that only means a loophole to the ceasfire deal' without some intermediate steps that you're glossing over here and that there's seemingly no evidence for.
Like, have either the US or Israel defended their assertion that strike on Lebanon are okay because of a reference to any loophole? Do they appeal to a distinction between Hezbollah and the central government? Or are they just straight up saying Lebanon is not included?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
My separate comment states the latter, that the loophole identifies Hezbollah as a outside the scope of the ceasefire deal.
But so far no comment from Pakistan or Iran on that specific matter.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
So we're back to the imaginary loophole?
Just to nail down what you're trying to say here: Your contention is that the ceasefire deal does include mention of 'Lebanon' but that Israel (and supposedly the US) are taking advantage of the (purported) fact that the deal does not specifically mention Hezbollah to justify their attacks?
How do you address the contradiction between that and the unequivocal statement from the Israeli PMO that says very clearly 'The two-weeks ceasefire does not include Lebanon'? Not 'The two-weeks ceasefire does not include Hezbollah' but clearly and directly, 'Lebanon'?
ein125@reddit
Why? Just why, are you debating a fucking hasbara bot? You have literally just wasted hours of your life to this. And they'll keep dragging you down their pedantic hole. Just stop responding and move on. One good point per thread is all you need.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Hours? You vastly overestimate how much time and effort that required.
ein125@reddit
It still required effort. And it's been wasted.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
What, are you paying me by the hour or something?
HockeyHocki@reddit
Why are you deleting your replies you big girls blouse, you afraid others will find out about you? You do know the commenter can only read first few words of a deleted comment right? Im dead curious where you were going with it😅
TraditionalGap1@reddit
I'm not, some mod did. or automod perhaps. Don't be a nonce
HockeyHocki@reddit
Sure they did buddy
TraditionalGap1@reddit
My friend, I know you're plenty familiar with your posts being removed
HockeyHocki@reddit
Posts yes, comments no. You'd have to be writing some pretty wild shit to be getting comments removed on this sub
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Someone seemed to be offended when I asked you why you have to drag a certain religious group in to every discussion about certain country
HockeyHocki@reddit
You're bothered i call out antisemitic slurs on r/anime_titties? Bizarre, maybe somewhere like r/suppressed_news would be a more palatable sub for you chief
TraditionalGap1@reddit
It was more an observation that you throw that term around in every discussion seemingly regardless of content or context, like the comment that I had replied to.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Did the user delete the comment above or something else?
HockeyHocki@reddit
Nah he replied to me in another post on this sub and immediately deleted his comment, im just calling him out on it here. I can read first line of his comment in my notifications. People do it when they dont want mods seeing what their commenting
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
That's why I said it doesn't say anything yet.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
What kind of answer is that to a yes or no question. That either is what you're saying or it isn't. You should know, right?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
That is my answer, it's up to you at this point how you will take it.
tommytwolegs@reddit
You might have a point if Israel even attacked Hezbollah but they bombed a bunch of commercial and residential buildings in downtown beirut
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
You already know how it is, they'll label them Hezbollah as they've already committed to their bit.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
gregorydgraham@reddit
Iran absolutely did not expect Trump to accept their offering. They offered a complete surrender and the USA overruling the UN. It’s unthinkable that any US president would agree to that.
It appears Pakistan has misrepresented both sides opinions for their own benefit.
Cheestake@reddit
Pakistani mediators said Lebanon was part of the deal before it was agreed upon. Iran explicitly said a ceasefire in Lebanon was a prerequisite to any deal. This isn’t a miscommunication, this is just the US lying (yet again)
jenny_905@reddit
Military might doesn't seem to have helped the USA for decades
ThatOneDrunkUncle@reddit
Show me on the doll where Netanyahu touched you
Tangentkoala@reddit
points to the entirety of gaza, south of Lebanon, parts of iran, 1/5th of the westbank
ThatOneDrunkUncle@reddit
Wow you’ve lived a lot of scary places!
Significant-Ad-7182@reddit
Nah, I believe it was intentionally left out. Iranian side probably assumed ceasefire would include their proxies as in a complete ceasefire.
Something akin to this was done before years ago with Saddam when he was negotiating with Americans who were there to dissuade Saddam from invading the Gulf states. What actually happened is that they let Saddam think they were not going to intervene. And when he did attack, well we know how that ended up.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
Don't we have the 10 demands Iran made? I thought i saw them posted in a different thread and it clearly included a point that demanded Israel and the US cease hostilities in Lebanon.
Significant-Ad-7182@reddit
So far both sides released different demands so who knows which is the one that was agreed upon. But I only remember seeing a demand from Iran regarding USA ceasing any and all military activities in the region.
Cheestake@reddit
The mediators know, and they said Lebanon was included. One side is trying to make a “he said/she said” to cover up their blatant lies
Paradoxjjw@reddit
Whatever the case i wouldn't expect Iran to accept any terms that exclude Hezbollah from the ceasefire, so they at least came out of negotiations with the idea all hostilities against it and its allies be ceased.
BackseatCowwatcher@reddit
My understanding is that Iran was a bit too specific, they required the US and Israel to cease conflict with Lebanon, while the thing is that Israel hasn't been in active conflict with Lebanon itself since 1967*, but rather with terrorist paramilitary proxies operating from Southern Lebanon that the Lebanese government themselves have also continually been in conflict with.
Specifically the six day war, technically they have continually been in a 'cold' war with Lebanon proper since the Lebanese government never formally ended hostilities, despite working with Israel against various terrorist groups over the years since.
travistravis@reddit
Bombing civilian targets in Lebanon sure makes it seem like they're in conflict with Lebanon.
gregorydgraham@reddit
There’s 2 lists I’ve seen and they’re very different.
IdiAmini@reddit
And we have the main mediators statement (Pakistan) in which the ceasefire indeed included Lebanon
US and Israel are lying again
Magjee@reddit
The US or israel could simply state what the deal was, but instead leave it vague
Dark1000@reddit
Demands for a peace agreement in negotiations, not conditions for a ceasefire.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
And you're going to try to convince me that they would include lebanon in the peace demands but not in the ceasefire demands?
Dark1000@reddit
Yeah, obviously. A ceasefire isn't a peace deal. It's a temporary halt to hostilities in order for something to take place, in this case negotiations over terms for a peace deal. Did you think they were the same thing?
Paradoxjjw@reddit
Again, what are you trying to say? Because none of this has anything to do with the point that Israel immediately broke the ceasefire by attacking one of the parties that was included in the terms of the ceasefire.
Dark1000@reddit
It doesn't appear that there was clear agreement on what the terms of the ceasefire actually were. They obviously weren't that 10-point plan. I don't know why anyone would think so, other than a complete misunderstanding of what a ceasefire entails.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
I very much doubt Iran was unclear in their demands and i can't in good conscience call something a misunderstanding if Trump never spent any time trying to understand it in the first place.
Iran is a lot of bad things, but given they've managed to negotiate much more complicated deals just fine with US leaders more willing to understand what was going on i'm inclined to believe this isn't on them.
I think Trump just said yes to the first thing that came across the table in order to be able to TACO out again without bothering to listen to the demands nor spending any time seeing if he could deliver on what he's agreeing to.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
Before a ceasefire goes into effect, Israel always launches as big of an attack as they can. Every single time. Because the are and have always been uninterested in peace.
R6ckStar@reddit
The Pakistani PMs statement included Lebanon. So this is just Israel eland the US lying or they simply don't care and this "truce" was a way for them to lift some pressure whilst moving more assets into the region.
Successful-Bobcat701@reddit
Or it was in but Israel attacked anyway and the US doesn't want to admit they can't control Israel.
braiam@reddit
Wait, when it has not been the opposite?
Successful-Bobcat701@reddit
That is a double negative. Do you mean "not been the true" or "when has it been the opposite"?
If that is what you are trying to ask, the US has never controlled Israel, but they rarely have to admit this fact publicly.
braiam@reddit
No, I'm saying that asking that question is ridiculous, considering that Israel controlling the US has been known for a good while.
Professional-Syrup-0@reddit
This is historical revisionism. Saddam was broke after having played the US proxy in the Iran - Iraq war, so he accused Kuwait of stealing Iraqi oil as a pretext for invading Kuwait.
Back then the U.S. DoS was aware of all of this and commented on it with a: “We have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.”, which Saddam interpreted as a go-ahead from his American sponsors.
SatisfactionDry3038@reddit
Reasonable since it covered the US proxy in Israel
flossdaily@reddit
It's not a legit misunderstanding. It's Iran lying their asses off, and the global media running with it.
In no universe does Israel agree to stop firing at hezbollah in a negotiation where Hezbollah isn't even at the table to agree to a reciprocal ceasefire.
R6ckStar@reddit
Why did the Pakistani PM issue a statement that included the Lebanon operation?
Are you saying the mediator is lying? What would they gain from that?
flossdaily@reddit
Dunno. We pretending that the international community doesn't have a history of lying about Israel?
travistravis@reddit
Israel and Trump have a history of lying about everything
IdiAmini@reddit
The main mediator, Pakistan, released a message stating the ceasefire included Lebanon
We have evidence of someone lying and it ain't Iran
flossdaily@reddit
Yeah, this would be the first time the international community lied about Israel.
Catalani@reddit
Cry me a river, lmao The genocidal ethnostate is soooo misunderstood on stopping its latest cleansing campaign.
flossdaily@reddit
There you go again.
IdiAmini@reddit
Hahahahahaha, you arwe funny in a dumb kind of wasy
As if it would be the first time Israel and the US lied? Lying is their middle name for gods sake
Get out of here
TraditionalGap1@reddit
How handy for all of us then that in this particular universe that we inhabit Israel was not a party to these negotiations. Also handy that Hezbollah seemed to be of the same mind as the Iranians and the Pakistanis.
beefprime@reddit
There was no misunderstanding, the US and Israel knew they would break the cease fire and Iran knew that they would break it but it would prevent whatever apocalyptic war crimes Trump had planned for his deadline for another 2 weeks while demonstrating to the world (for the millionth time) the perfidy of the western world.
BunNGunLee@reddit
I mean at a certain point agreeing that those groups are Iranian proxies and therefore an apparatus of the Iranian state is a massive issue in geopolitics by itself.
Tangentkoala@reddit
Its like saying israel is americas proxy. Same thing. 🤷♂️ and Russia and china is Iran's proxy and west Bank settlers are israels proxy.
We already know the landscape
Sgt_Habib@reddit
They’re attacking civilians
ChefCurryYumYum@reddit
It wasn't a misunderstanding, Israel and Bibi did what they did best, huge, sweeping strikes hitting civilian targets across ALL of Lebanon to torpedo the ceasefire.
Bibi does not want a ceasefire.
Ok_Relation7695@reddit
You are fucking stupid if you believe this is just a misunderstanding. Do you think we are all so stupid??
moonski@reddit
yet the statement they drafted to get the Pakistan PM to release said it did.
FeralGiraffeAttack@reddit
They're just so painfully, dangerously stupid. It's almost comical but their ineptitude is so severe that it can't be funny because the issues are so serious.
camus_by_night@reddit
The fact that Israel launched the worst assault of this entire war on the very day that the ceasefire kicked in tells you that this was no 'misunderstanding' - that would've meant more of the same for lebanon, not something extraordinary like this
The mediating state, whatever one's views about them might be, made it clear that Lebanon falls within the purview of the ceasefire. It's laughable to imagine that countries that refer to Iran's 'Axis of Evil' frequently wouldn't have been forced to come to terms about the Yemeni & lebanese elements of the Iranian resistance when negotiating a ceasefire.
This wasn't a mistake, it was more of the same perfidious crap that we've seen from Israel in this decade - cease fire, only to target the most vulnerable elements, before claiming fait accompli over the whole ceasefire process and actually resuming in earnest.
No real cessation of hostilities.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Let's be real, for as long as a country holds the Strait of Hormuz hostage, there won't ever be peace.
camus_by_night@reddit
Oh yeah. Since the Ayatollahs came to power in 1979, their iron grip over the Strait have been ruinous to peace prospe-
Lmao, as if the Strait wasn't perfectly open until this war was foisted upon them. It's so blatantly selfish and wrong that people can't help but see Iran in a good light - Iran! A horrible country run by Islamist fanatics & bigots that murders citizens for fun!
Even within this ~5 week period, the strait was completely closed only for a little while. Initially India, China, and Russia, and later even France, Japan, and Oman got to push their ships through. The problem here isn't Iran I'm afraid.
Of course, this doesn't mean that their 'strategically justified' reprisals haven't maimed and killed thousands of innocents. It's a fucking tragedy, but that's War™. No one wins.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Did I specify anyone my dear good brother in the same blue and dying earth.
Da_reason_Macron_won@reddit
It looks like taking the strait is in fact the only path towards peace since it's the only thing keeping two demented regimes at bay.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
What does Israel committing atrocities in Beirut have to do with Iran controlling the Strait of Hormuz?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
My dear, how many times have you emotionally made a comment that I believe you have full understanding.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Thank you for responding and showing you don’t have a coherent reply…
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
No problem then.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I look forward to see your random utterances later. Good day.
PerforatedPie@reddit
You're not being real, not at all.
stonkmarxist@reddit
It's now in the interests of Europe and Asia to defend Lebanon against Israeli bloodlust.
If Israel is made to stop the attacks then the chokehold on the energy markets is released. At this stage we shouldn't be waiting about for the USA to do anything, they're as much of a rogue state as Israel is.
kolitics@reddit
It’s not even in Lebanon’s interest to defend hezbollah.
Magjee@reddit
Hezbollah is the excuse for the land grab, not the reason
The reason is a desire to increase territorial holdings
Like WMD's were not the reason for the Iraq War
Oil was
kolitics@reddit
Why does a sovereign nation need a terrorist group that it has no control over inviting Israel in for a land grab?
Magjee@reddit
The land grab excuse is as flimsy as Russia denazifying Ukraine
They want the land, everything else is trash
kolitics@reddit
Not really, you have people firing rockets from a territory that their own government fails its own sovereignty to stop them.
Magjee@reddit
If you look at a nap of israel they can't stop people who they refuse to citizen from firing on them
kolitics@reddit
I believe the complaint is that they are overzealous in stopping them.
Magjee@reddit
Nah buddy
The country generated by the expulsion of 700,000 people from their homes and then using the excuse of being under attack when people push back is doing the same shit again
renlydidnothingwrong@reddit
People blame Hezbollah as if Iarael ever would have left Southern Lebanon in the first place had it not been for their resistance efforts.
Magjee@reddit
Yep, they had to be forced out
puljujarvifan@reddit
Remove every muslim from Lebanon and people like Smotrich and everyone to Bibi's right still believe Greater Israel requires the entire region to be majority Jewish from Turkey to Egypt.
Hezbollah could be gone tomorrow and they would still find a way to slowly push non-Jews off land they believe belongs to them because God gave it to them.
You dont understand Zionism if you think it goes away in a world without islam.
beefprime@reddit
Its crazy how people think Hezbollah is the problem when they exist specifically because Israel invaded Lebanon, meanwhile the Lebanese government will not fight back against an explicitly genocidal invader who will not stop invading, is committing genocide over in Gaza, and even as Israel ethnically cleanses the West Bank and expands settlements there the Lebanese government still seems to want to become the Lebanese PLO, basically allowing itself to be co-opted by western interests while its territory and people are dismantled and killed by Israel.
But yeah its Hezbollah who is the problem.
kolitics@reddit
Not sure how you see the Lebanese government not defending hezbollah and think you know better.
beefprime@reddit
Well I see the US government conducting unjustified wars of aggression against Iran and supporting genocide in Gaza and I think I know what's better for the US, but I guess maybe I'm the problem.
Catalani@reddit
*Defend Lebanese people from being cleansed and occupied
Britstuckinamerica@reddit (OP)
ug61dec@reddit
Roflmao "check themselves a little bit"
Iran has been gifted by the USA a perfect lever to pull in the middle east - stop attacking Hezbollah or the strait closes. They never would have dreamed of doing this prior to the USA attacks.
Name one strategic objective the USA has achieved in this endeavour - or even one they haven't made worse.
Britstuckinamerica@reddit (OP)
Erm, I think you've failed to note that an 86 year old who was replaced by his son and a few bureaucrats and officers were killed so it's #COMPLETE #REGIME #CHANGE
SongFeisty8759@reddit
...just worse than it was before.
royal_dansk@reddit
They never said that it will be for the better
SongFeisty8759@reddit
"The oil must flow"..
Successful-Bobcat701@reddit
Did Trump ever say "Regime change to a better regime"? No, people just assumed that part.
Hamiltonblewit@reddit
Not a few, nearly a hundred based on estimates and named IRGC, military, and intelligence members, but regardless, that shows how dispersed their authority is
27Rench27@reddit
Given how often they get attacked, it makes perfect sense that most of Iran’s leaders in every field will have people ready to quickly step in
Successful-Bobcat701@reddit
Destroying the Iranian airforce.
dharms@reddit
So they say. Even it it's true it doesn't matter.
gregorydgraham@reddit
Everyone is distracted from the Epstein Files
Neo-grotesque@reddit
Turns out a gentlemen's agreement with no gentlemen involved isn't much of an agreement.
Pixi_Dust_408@reddit
They do not want to make sure the negotiations go well, they’re war mongers. They’re using white phosphorus. The negotiations are not going to go well because Trump is a greedy idiot and because Israel wants to expand their territory.
cambeiu@reddit
This is how badly Trump wanted out of this quagmire. My understanding is that the US created the message for Pakistan to officially send back to the US, where Pakistan asks the US to pause the destruction of Iran, and seek a two week ceasefire and negotiation.
This allowed Trump to back down on his end of civilization threat. Problem is he didn’t tell Israel, or the Gulf states.
It’s the same with all the “negotiations” that Trump kept mentioning. He made stuff up like, “Iran is begging me for a deal”, “we are having intense negotiations right now”. And Iran didn’t know what he was talking about. But at least they decided to draft a 10 point plan in case negotiations ever began. It was probably a text message. No official document.
And lo and behold, Trump was so desperate, he "agreed" to all their demands, but can't get Israel on board.
The Strait is now closed again and what options Trump has? Not many, I reckon.
Hamiltonblewit@reddit
Yeah, this campaign is only held up by its shock and awe factor, but if a decapitation strike doesn’t work, U.S planners has affirmed for the past decade that an expansive land campaign utilizing hundreds of thousands of troops and years of immense bloodshed is the necessary next step if you’re truly serious about out taking Iran. Otherwise, you’ve just destabilized a nation but still left its extremist elements intact
Crouteauxpommes@reddit
Even worse, you (they) made the extremists even more powerful by undermining the moderates and proving the hawks that they were right in being doomsday preppers for the last fourth years at the detriment of the civilian population.
Now the clerics are out of power, but it's the pashdaran who are in charge, and we'll see in the coming months and years but I'm not persuaded it's a change for the better.
SludgeFilter@reddit
Us could threaten to cancel all military support shipments and money from Israel if they don't stop.
DirtzMaGertz@reddit
With how many congress members get money from AIPEC, that might honestly be one of the only moves that gets him impeached.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Such an act would end AIPAC overnight. This would be the straw that breaks the camels back. There is already a lot of anti-Israeli and outright antisemitic sentiment on the right which those in control are quietly trying to manage and control. If Trump, the messiah of MAGA, gets politically couped by an Israeli conspiracy, there will be outright rebellion within the party and a purge of pro-Israeli politicians will take place.
MAGA accepts Israel because it allows them to kill Muslims. If Israel turns on their great leader, that wrath will get pointed to Israel instead.
DirtzMaGertz@reddit
It might finally be a straw that breaks the camel's back as far as the party unconditionally supporting Trump, but AIPAC donates to well over 300 members of Congress. I don't think it's going anywhere.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
The idolatry around Trump managed to pretty much singlehandedly change the direction of the Republican party to a point where they are pretty much yes men for most of Trump's desires. The backlash from the MAGA movement against politicians who take AIPAC money if they were involved in the ousting of Trump would be huge, and as they have shown before, the MAGA movement has the ability to rally significant public support.
shawnadelic@reddit
Yeah this was all pretty obvious when this half-assed ceasefire was announced at the 11th hour with no agreed-upon specifics regarding the details of the "deal."
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
Well, Netanyahu convinced Trump. His entire cabinet told him it was a bad idea, but wouldn’t outright tell him no because he’s now surrounded himself with yes men
HockeyHocki@reddit
Iran deliberately separated themselves from their foreign proxy armies to avoid taking any responsibility for their actions, yet still they expect ceasefire agreements with Iran to cover them, it's farcical. Talk about wanting your cake and eat it too.
In anyway Iran don't get to dictate terms of ceasefire over another sovereign state, Lebanon must agree the terms of ceasefire in a war in Lebanon
fisa90@reddit
Then why was the negotiator tweeting that it did (in a post most likely authored by America?) Israel wants to expand its borders and wants the war to continue. Netanyahu has taken a political brushing and looses power if this war doesn’t continue. If this wasn’t deliberate provocation then why the upsurge in military strikes. How many bombs in one hour was it? At least 500 dead. This is Israeli blood list and nothing more.
coleto22@reddit
Then should the ceasefire between Iran and USA cover Israel at all?
HockeyHocki@reddit
Israel gave the US permission to negotiate ceasefire terms on their behalf. Lebanon did not give Iran permission to negotiate the terms of ceasefire in Lebanons war, the Lebanese prime minister has confirmed this
Occamsfacecloth@reddit
The Lebanese prime minister has nothing to do with Hezbollah
HockeyHocki@reddit
Hezbollah would not be party to the agreement. Obviously internally Lebanon would want to get Hezbollah on board with whatever they are signing up to or it is doomed to fail but it doesn't that fact the agreement is between Lebanon and Israel
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Exactly why Lebanon should've been included as an official contractee to the ceasefire deal.
Occamsfacecloth@reddit
They might as well include you as a contractee
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Would be nice to become a oil transport baron for two weeks, not gonna lie.
blown-transmission@reddit
Ceasefire also includes gulf states and israel. It has more american proxies than iran's allies.
There is a ceasefire in Lebanon, which is broken regularly by israel.
HockeyHocki@reddit
There objectively isn't a ceasefire in Lebanon, Lebanon did not agree to any ceasefire and didn't give Iranians permission to negotiate one on their behalf
TommyTwoNips@reddit
hey, the Israeli using a fake flair is back to argue that the ceasefire violates Lebanese autonomy again.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
It is a fair, point. No need to play down a critical failure of the ceasefire agreement.
Just-another-weapon@reddit
Wouldn't this imply that Iran can start bombing Israel again and not be violating the ceasefire?
HockeyHocki@reddit
Just answered in another comment but unlike Lebanon and Iran, Israel gave US permission to negotiate the ceasefire on their behalf
cmrd_msr@reddit
Well, after this, Iran can, with a clear conscience, declare that Israel was not involved in the deal with the Americans either.
I wouldn't be surprised if they do that.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Kind of counter productive, that means Israel can be pumped with more weapons because Iran is obligated to not attack US or Gulf states.
Magjee@reddit
israel is dependent on US support to continue
DankMemesNQuickNuts@reddit
Seems like this was a convienent way of tanking the deal but still getting the quick relief in the market that made options traders a fuckload of money overnight Tuesday
It's insane that we govern the global economy this way
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