Volkswagen Says It Won't Ditch Sedans or Hot Hatches Anytime Soon
Posted by V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 73 comments
A VW exec said the Golf GTI and Golf R are the company's heartbeat and that sedans and hatchbacks will always be part of its lineup.
Astramael@reddit
They already did. To be a hot hatch you need a manual transmission available.
PurchaseStreet9991@reddit
Is that a specific requirement? I feel by all accounts a Golf R is one of the hottest hatches of hot hatches and it only has a dual clutch
Also not to mention the GTI literally invented the segment
Astramael@reddit
I don’t agree it at all. The Golf R is fast, but it’s not especially fun. Quite an isolated and detached experience. I’ve never driven one and thought to myself that it was a particularly spicy car.
So Mini and Abarth just don’t exist?
PurchaseStreet9991@reddit
We live in an era of cars that are largely more isolated and detached than versions that came before. I don’t think that precludes the Golf R from being literally the objectively hottest hatchback that money can buy in the US today
To the second point, the vast majority of people consider the GTI to be the original hot hatch
Astramael@reddit
I don’t think you know what objectively means. If it was objective everybody would choose it. Meanwhile people buy CTRs and GRCs in larger numbers because they’re hotter hatches.
Facts don’t matter huh? Cool. Good to know.
PurchaseStreet9991@reddit
To my knowledge the Golf R is the hottest hatchback available on the US market (0-60, 1/4 mile, peak power/torque); but in Europe it would probably be the hatch versions of the M3 or RS3.
But people don’t pick things because they’re objectively the best; we’re subjective creatures. Hell I drive a 50 year old Italian car, and it’s not because of the speed or practicality haha
As for facts not mattering, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Nobody’s making peer reviewed research on the topic but I wager most people consider the GTI to be the original hot hatch
Astramael@reddit
Well there’s your problem. Nobody sane would rate hot hatches by their horsepower or straight-line performance. That’s the worst type of spreadsheet racing you can do. It just doesn’t matter in that class of car, every single one is slow.
For perspective some of the best hot hatches produced recently were the Abarth and the Fiesta ST. Both positively slow in comparison, but objectively far far hotter than a Golf R or GTI.
So there is this thing called time. Events that happened earlier in time are first. The VW GTI wasn’t first, so it wasn’t the original hot hatche.
PurchaseStreet9991@reddit
Well considering “hot” is usually associated with speed/quickness, I didn’t think it was out of the ordinary to bring it up as a metric in this discussion
As for the GTI. Fine I should rephrase to ”the third hot hatch and the car that popularized hot hatches”
I sense some defensiveness, like this topic encroaches on the reputation of the car in your flair. Either that or some untreated adult autism
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TelephoneDesperate84@reddit
Is the manual requirement to be a hot hatch a fact or feeling?
Astramael@reddit
Seeing as there doesn’t seem to be very much agreement on what is a hot hatch, or how to measure that, it’s pretty impossible for the manual to be a factual requirement.
TelephoneDesperate84@reddit
True. I’m prob defensive over my DSG GTI lol. I feel like an economy family hatchback spiced up with 240+ HP (def underreported by VW), an LSD etc should qualify. But I’ll admit it’s a more refined and less visceral experience than competitors and not having the manual leaves driver engagement on the table
PurchaseStreet9991@reddit
Because it should qualify
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
Yeah I wasn’t aware that I was supposed to un-hot my hatchback
Professional-Cap-579@reddit
and they dont even have sedans anymore
Astramael@reddit
GLI exists!
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
I remember back in the day the GLI was such a unique and cool car, but now it just seems like a slightly higher trim of the Jetta.
Those old 1.8T GLIs were one of my dream cars back in high school
Astramael@reddit
These days all 1.8T GLIs have intentionally rusty hoods, what’s going on?!?
jse000@reddit
The GTI manual wasn't good. The DSG adds more to the experience than a bad manual box does.
Astramael@reddit
It wasn’t an especially good manual, but that’s VW’s fault. Mostly it was a gearing issue. Despite this the take rate for both GTI and Golf R was around 50%!
We keep being told that manuals are killed because nobody buys them. And it’s not worth putting development money into them because nobody buys them. VW had plenty of buyers and still didn’t put development time into them and still killed them.
This article from Car and Driver is just VW marketing wankery. They don’t care about these products, and they will kill them whenever it suits them.
Ray1340@reddit
Manuals are still fun, but this isn't the 90's anymore, new automatic gearbox are much faster.
Astramael@reddit
I don’t care. These cars are all slow. I can buy a cheaper and faster car if that’s what I want.
Electronic_Trade_721@reddit
Speed isn't really the point on a road car.
OkDirection8015@reddit
Bring back the beetle!
hx87@reddit
Hell, bring it back as a rear engined, rear wheel drive EREV.
backfire103@reddit
All these stupid failed EV projects and they won’t capitalize on the Lightning Bug. It’s literally right there.
willpc14@reddit
Wouldn't that unfortunately infringe on Ford's F150 Lightning?
Nyte_Knyght33@reddit
I'm glad to hear they are still committed to the Jetta. I would buy a hybrid Jetta in the next couple of years when I'm in the market.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
Sedans, as in plural? They only make one...at least for the North American market.
vargemp@reddit
One more than in the EU.
UserIDTBD@reddit
The VW ID.7 is an electric sedan also available as a wagon. But no Jetta or Passat sedans. Hatchbacks and wagons are definitely preferred in Europe over sedans. Of course, many people are choosing SUVs and crossovers now.
yyytobyyy@reddit
Technically Škoda Octavia and Škoda Superb are VW sedans.
KSoMA@reddit
If you want to be pedantic then the Audi A3 is also a VW sedan.
yyytobyyy@reddit
So many sedans available in the EU.
KSoMA@reddit
What is interesting though is that technically VW no longer sells any midsize/D-segment sedans outside of China. Passat is Avant only, and the Arteon and ID7 are both liftbacks. Skoda Superb is a liftback, and the Audi A5 is called a sedan but it's also a liftback.
This would also be true for the C-segment compact cars but the A3 is still a standard sedan, plus the Jetta exists in America even if it's based on older MQB.
InstantSteel@reddit
Is Passat getting discontinued or something?
It's still available new in Slovenia.
Professional-Cap-579@reddit
Gonna be zero very soon, theyre already planning to phase that turd soon
KSoMA@reddit
They will probably give it a new gen using the Chinese redesign, it sells decent enough to justify continuing to exist.
bandito-yeet-dorito@reddit
It was good VW still kept importing GTi and R even if the standard Golf wasnt really profitable. I really wish Ford put the same care into their beloved Hot hatch line. The last USDM FoST we got was loved by journalists and still has a cult following. But a lot of those cars are aging now, and theres nothing available now that matched the insane performance per dollar you got.
Legitimate-Type4387@reddit
The Fiesta ST was even better. Really sucks that we stopped getting both.
Professional-Cap-579@reddit
The fiesta was discontinued for the better honestly. The MK8 is a downgrade in every way from the MK7 we had from 2011-2019.
I do agree ford would've redeemed themselves with a 3rd gen focus if it was sold in the US (we are a generation behind europeans) after all, the gen 4 escape (lifted focus) was a massive glow up over the third gen.
Legitimate-Type4387@reddit
We never got the MK8 so I can only lament the loss of the MK7. That was such a great car.
fastlax16@reddit
Owned a mk7 mk7.5 and currently a mk8. Saying it’s a downgrade in every way is a stretch. The 8 is better to drive in every way. Previous gen has better ergonomics inside because buttons but I prefer the overall interior design in the 8. The seats are lightyears ahead. Steering wheel is much nicer.
Legitimate-Type4387@reddit
Talking Fiesta’s not Golf’s.
fastlax16@reddit
It’s late. I’m tired. Carry on :)
Professional-Cap-579@reddit
I had the mexican import. Such an overhated car when it was based on a reliable JDM design. The one that replaced it was known for the awful transmission. No wonder ford stopped selling a sedan or a 5 door
Legitimate-Type4387@reddit
The ST’s were manual only, it’s a shame they suffered from the same stigma as the dogshit automatics.
flapsmcgee@reddit
I barely see any regular Fiestas or Focuses any more, probably because of that piece of shit transmission blowing on all of them.
Fidlu@reddit
I don't know what fiesta MK8 you got but it was only sold in Europe and was a great car. The MK7 was a bit lighter and nimbler but the Mk8 with the LSD is more usable as a daily while being faster and basically all of its character.
Famous-Ferret-1171@reddit
Our 2019 Fiesta ST is an absolute joy to drive.
hisfootstancewack@reddit
No manual no buy
iatekane@reddit
GLI is the only one with a stick
AlbatrossStrong9085@reddit
I hope golf r stays awd
Wolfo93@reddit
Even Passat became only kombi version, no sedan anymore so we will see...
eddieltu@reddit
bullshit, they ditched the Passat
perfunctificus@reddit
If they come through on the promises for interior improvement, a mk10 Golf R will probably shoot to the top of my list.
costafilh0@reddit
Stops being profitable.
Ditches immediately.
linknewtab@reddit
I mean, what business wouldn't?
Astramael@reddit
Profit doesn’t have to be direct. Halo models do work to drive showroom traffic and interest.
pegasusairforce@reddit
Are the people who are interested in R and GTI even interested in anything else from VW though?
Like for BMW, someone interested in an M3 might decide to walk out with an M340i or even 330i, it's still a RWD sedan. But I can't imagine a prospective Golf R wanting a brand new base model Golf.
Astramael@reddit
They can’t buy a base model Golf in North America even if they wanted one.
It isn’t always down market the same category. I’ve personally seen people come into a Toyota dealership to look at a Supra and leave with a RAV4. It doesn’t make sense, and it’s not how I buy cars, but people do weird stuff all the time.
Carvair-98@reddit
Not necessarily related to this, but has anyone else noticed that VW still hasn't released the Q1 sales figures in the USA? I wanted to look at those just because they had such a bad time last year, yet still nothing. Ominous.
Also, don't believe for a second anything this guy says. The company in the US has only been reducing car line-up and options over the years. Put aside stuff like the larger sedans, the Golf has been reduced all the way down to something for everyone to hot hatches with autos. Clearly, this model family is not the essential part of VW USA it once was. So you have to wonder, come Mk.9 or whatever comes next (some ID type?), does it have a future here?
I get the impression while the Jetta stays, the continued existence of stuff like the GTI, R, and GLI (which somehow still has the manual) is tenuous. Given that stuff like the ID series has barely made it stateside as well (besides the mismanaged Buzz and up in the air ID.4), don't plan on any electric successors either.
Artistic_Check_98@reddit
Need a Cupra ID.7 sedan/wagon.
Successful_Ad_9707@reddit
How bout a manual hot hatch and/or a sedan?
epsiblivion@reddit
gli still has a manual
Successful_Ad_9707@reddit
GLI is it, and it's not a great manual either. Probably won't be around much longer either.
IAmWellBehaved@reddit
Hatches maybe, but sedans were probably discussed in a general, global sense. Sedans outside of China and supporting markets are almost gone outside of what, the Jetta and ID7? So sedans will probably stick around yes, but mainly for consumers in China. Passat sedan demand continually declined in Europe and North America, so no point in bringing the Passat sedan from China to either continent, and the Arteon never found a real customer base, so same story there.
That being said, I'd actually like to see them move the Jetta back to being twinned with the Golf and just return to being a Golf sedan with the GLI being even more of a GTI sedan, and a Jetta R, etc.
Professional-Cap-579@reddit
Whats funny about this is that the jetta and passat arent even available in americas anymore
Cardiff-Giant11@reddit
the passat isn’t but the Jetta is at least in the USA
https://www.vw.com/en/models/jetta.html
I_like_cake_7@reddit
That’s great, but no manual GTI = no buy for me.
jacko_banshi@reddit
I want the Scirocco here in the US soooo bad
Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit
With the price of fuel up, and the economy down.
Any company with small cars would be silly to discontinue them.
That being said, VW would be wise to push hybrids more aggressively
StrangeSmellz@reddit
Are price conscious shoppers buying GTI and golf r?