‘Non-survivable’: heatwaves are already breaching human limits, with worse to come, study finds
Posted by Azurmuth@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 188 comments
thepotofbasil@reddit
“The absolute limit for humans to survive had been assumed to be a six-hour exposure to a wet bulb temperature of 35C – a measure that accounts for temperature and humidity but has rarely been observed on the planet at that level.
ChillAhriman@reddit
This will significantly affect poor countries far, far more.
The south of Spain has been suffering terrible heatwaves for well over a decade. Yet, we have far fewer deaths to heatstroke than France got in their last one (2024), despite theirs being considered kinda mild for our standards, not only because we're more accustomed to it (and therefore we're more careful), but because almost every Spaniard who lives in an area that gets dangerous heatwaves has AC in their home. This is quite uncommon north of the Pyrenees.
But... Is this energy expense affordable to poor communities in the poorest regions of Africa? Keeping the AC on in your home for several hours a day, for weeks, every year?
Shazoa@reddit
This is part of why you see that stat bandied around about how more people die from extreme temperatures in Europe than people get shot in the USA. It's become a big problem very rapidly.
Extreme temperatures are becoming more common, suddenly, and in places where there isn't the infrastructure or culture to deal with it. And, as you point out, this is exacerbated among the poorest. If people in France are dying then the vulnerable and elderly in Bulgaria are screwed.
PerforatedPie@reddit
Also pure AC doesn't work in dry climates. You need humidity for it to be effective.
bageltheperson@reddit
Checking in from Arizona, pure AC works just fine in dry climates.
PerforatedPie@reddit
Not as well as the swamp cooler your house actually has, though.
bageltheperson@reddit
Swamp coolers don’t work in low humidity environments.
PerforatedPie@reddit
No, swamp coolers don't work in very high humidity. They require a supply of water, but with that they humudify and add moisture to the environment.
Drachos@reddit
Swamp coolers however are TERRIBLE in varied humidity climates.
If its constantly dry, Swamp coolers are better (although as an Aussie I hate the waste of water.)
If its constantly humid, AC is better.
If the humidity varies, AC becomes less efficient.
But a Swamp cooler can become a hazard. The Swamp cooler lowers the temperature, raises the humidity and then the dew point drops.
And suddenly your tile/hardwood floor is very slippery, your carpet has perfect mold growing conditions and if its been used to cool a warehouse that fine layer of water over the concrete floor can lead to forklift wheels loosing grip.
And I DO NOT want to have to write that hazard report again.
The niche number of places it is better then an AC do not justify how hard its pushed in places as a cost saving measure that its a bad idea.
PerforatedPie@reddit
Really good info, thanks. Yeah I came to understand after I fully read the wiki that the main advantage of swamp coolers is just that they're cheaper. Makes sense that a chunk of its popularity just comes from salesmen.
space253@reddit
Why?
PerforatedPie@reddit
I'm a bit too busy with work right now to parse out an explanation for you, but this wiki page gives an explanation of the difference between swamp coolers and AC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler
If you go to places like Arizona or New Mexico they have swamp coolers, not AC. But everyone generally just calls them AC, even though they're fundamentally different in how they operate, because they serve the same purpose.
great_apple@reddit
I live in AZ for a decade and we absolutely had A/C units, lol.
space253@reddit
What has that to do with why dry climates don't work for traditional ac, that is actually the opposite, that evaporative cooling doesn't work in humid environments?
Basically I am calling bullshit on you, but respectfully asked to be proven wrong.
So far you don't seem to understand how ac works.
PerforatedPie@reddit
No I've figured out where I was mistaken. Swamp coolers are indeed preferable in dry climates, however the reason is simply cost - they're cheaper to buy and cheaper to run. However the thread here has been exceptionally hostile so I've not been replying with a correction, as that would just invite more hostility.
space253@reddit
Your mistake was the needing humidity to run normal ac claim.
Ideally you want around 50% for comfort in wet areas, but less doesn't hurt the ac abilities or cost to operate.
PerforatedPie@reddit
It was just a misunderstanding from decades ago when someone explained to me that they use swamp coolers instead of AC in desert regions. Which is true, but the reason given at the time was wrong.
AC is consistent over the range of temperatures, but it's still more expensive than a swamp cooler. This is all detailed in the wiki I posted above - it directly compares the two.
Successful-Bobcat701@reddit
AC works fine in the dry climate of Las Vegas.
HeKis4@reddit
No you don't ? High humidity will strain your AC a little bit more as you can have more condensation on the cold side and humid air holds more energy per °C, but it'll still work.
PerforatedPie@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler
AC works through compression, swamp coolers work through evaporation. If you go to desert countries/states they will have swamp coolers, not AC.
However people do generally call them both AC, because they look similar and serve the same purpose.
HeKis4@reddit
Oh yeah fair enough, I didn't know swamp coolers were called AC too, I meant for closed loop ones with a compressor, hot side and cold side only.
beryugyo619@reddit
It works BETTER if you had liquid water to boil with, but that's not a requirement.
PerforatedPie@reddit
It kind of is? If you're in a particularly dry climate anyway. You won't find AC units in New Mexico, they're swamp coolers that work based on evaporation rather than refrigerant compression.
AC isn't completely useless in such climates, but nowhere near as effective and far less efficient.
beryugyo619@reddit
You're insane. What you're saying is that your favorite things that uses evaporation work better than AC in certain conditions. It has nothing to do with AC but to do with your favorite thing. Your favorite thing also doesn't work in extreme heat.
AC works the same regardless of humidity, it uses PV=nRT to pump heat. That's it.
Slim-Shadys-Fat-Tits@reddit
running AC also makes the outdoor temperatures hotter though
HeKis4@reddit
This, and AC is starting to become common for this very reason. Heck, I live in a city where we got 35° daily (not wet bulb, thank god) for three weeks straight last summer and I considered selling my flat to go live in a mountain somewhere. I think an AC is a sensible alternative to that.
derpstickfuckface@reddit
We are anywhere between 35 and 45C from roughly late May until early October every year.
I worked outside all summer as a kid and young teen.
Certainly climate change isn't about a couple of generations of human lifespans, but it's been that way for at least the three generations of farm workers I have known. We get heat advisories on the hottest days, but I don't think we've ever actually experienced a wide area wet bulb event.
I'd like to see more detailed modelling on when and where so people can be prepared.
Climate change for us is more about warmer winters, mosquitos starting earlier each year and animals migrating northwards.
ReplacementLivid8738@reddit
Any difference in the amount/frequency of rain or dry spells?
derpstickfuckface@reddit
Not so far in my lifetime, but that's not that much in the grand scheme
Emu1981@reddit
This is why one of the things that we should be doing to help out poorer communities is to fund solar panel installations for them. Having access to reliable electricity even if it is just during the day helps them to pull themselves out of poverty by allowing them to recharge mobile phones, provides access to remote education opportunities and, if done properly, allows the building of communal spaces with airconditioning to escape from the heat of the day. As their economic opportunities increase they can increasingly provide for themselves.
That said, we (as in everyone) should also be pushing towards lowering global CO2 output by converting to carbon neutral energy sources. Reducing global CO2 output will help reduce the impact of climate change for everyone from the poorest of the poor to the richest of the rich...
ponycorn_pet@reddit
I'm in Texas. The place where we get "100 days over 100 degrees" (fahrenheit) in the Summer. An average high in Summer is 113f, and it's unrelenting. On Christmas day, it was 80f at my house. People here always have the AC running all day, most of the year
church-rosser@reddit
Fug Texas. Fuck your electric grid.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
Yeah, I agree. Don't forget all of the AI datacenters that live here now to make it even worse for us
church-rosser@reddit
So leave.
Future-Excuse6167@reddit
I think part of the problem is that we've built out a lot since WW2 depending on A/C to keep things cool.
There are ways to build to help keep things cool, but lots of places have just not even given it a thought. Even using black asphalt has a huge heat cost.
Just saw a video on medina--lots of low, squat white buildings with narrow alleyways almost constantly covered to create shade... that's what I'm talking about.
bernie_manziel@reddit
wet bulb temps are the part about climate change that freaks me out the most specifically bc of things like this. it’s all terrifying seeing the erosion of coast line & the thought of water wars, but how do u out engineer global temps that literally kill ppl just for being outside at any given spot in the world?
ivari@reddit
cars with AC. at that point we're all human in alien planet
Trollimperator@reddit
Thanks to powerhungry technologies like ACs and Cars.
Oatcake47@reddit
The cause and solution to all of our problems! /s
thismorningscoffee@reddit
We can survive via evaporative cooling if we cover ourselves in alcohol!
TheFireStorm@reddit
Or just make suits from Dune
thismorningscoffee@reddit
Or…combine our two ideas and redefine the meaning of ‘stillsuit’
kolitics@reddit
Bless the maker and his fermented ass sweat
thismorningscoffee@reddit
FTFy
Trollimperator@reddit
Scots are actually good with global warming. They are already wearing those "commando"-skirts.
smallwonder25@reddit
Not the intention at all, I’m sure.
Hellguin@reddit
I thought that was Alcohol!
Lunchboxninja1@reddit
Tganks to powerhungry men who lobby against improving energy technologies*
oodats@reddit
the world was perfect before AC and cars.
Icenomad@reddit
Doesn’t matter if the food chain collapses
TheCrazedTank@reddit
What do you mean “if”, they already are. The oceans were the early alarms, once life there goes the rest follows shortly.
The-True-Kehlder@reddit
Most of the oxygen produced on the planet comes from the ocean ecosystem.
FridgeParade@reddit
Yeah but the more we use of those the more we need, its not sustainable.
Zerocordeiro@reddit
As someone who uses the metro a lot: damn
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I can fix that for you. Look up tipping cascade. We don’t know when we will hit that or even if we’ve hit it already, but it will be really obvious in hindsight, briefly…
bernie_manziel@reddit
we’re already in the middle of a mass extinction event, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we did hit one.
imtriing@reddit
You have to think of humanity as akin to a cold virus to the earth. We catch a cold, it causes havoc in our bodies as the germs multiply and overwhelm our defenses - and then our immune system fights back, shuts down the cold but retains DNA memory of the strain of cold it fought so that it can better fight it next time.
This extinction event will not touch everyone - only the poorest, most disenfranchised and least able to adapt to the changes that are happening/are still to come. We are in hell.
The360MlgNoscoper@reddit
More like Cancer. It agressively grows and drains resources. And there is nothing you can do against it.
imtriing@reddit
Earth won't die, it has remarkable capability for bouncing back and it will - once a significant portion of humanity is dead and the remaining portion have sufficiently changed their consumption habits. Those habits are already beginning to change, specifically most notably for energy generation, which is one of the largest contributing factors to what we are experiencing now.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
And colds also cause a fever until the infection is no longer raging.
SeatKindly@reddit
No see it gets even better because we also get to throw the gambling of human geo-engineering into the mix just to get extra fucky.
We may hit a tipping point and entirely ignore it with minimal consequence while causing the extinction of countless species and habitats.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I can’t believe anyone is taking idiot billionaires seriously when they are talking about this stuff. The tech billionaires are usually just blatant crooks, accountants or were born rich. None of these histories gives anyone a qualification to tinker with the earth’s environment directly.
SeatKindly@reddit
What are you on about dude? Just by the nature of modern civilization (well in advance of the internet I might add) humans were already geo-engineering the planet.
The Hoover Dam literally changed an entire ecosystem. And that’s one of countless examples.
TimeIntern957@reddit
No matter if we do not know when or at all, just be afraid and pay your carbon taxes. Also don't breed so much peasants, that should also help.
--SE7EN--@reddit
And now that it is done, we have to import people from places that didn't for 'demographic stabilization'!
PersnickityPenguin@reddit
Its called an extinction level event.
This also kills animals and plants.
Salt-Detective1337@reddit
I don't disagree that it is a major problem.
But I just want to point out there are many places where people live that for extended periods of time have temperatures that will kill people just by being outside.
Emu1981@reddit
And there are plenty of places like that where people who are at risk die on a regular basis due to that heat. The most common issue is any sort of heart problem - the heat and rising internal body temperature cause blood to become thicker which causes issues like acute heart failure and stroke.
TemporaryUser10@reddit
You misunderstand. These temperatures will also kill you inside if you lack AC
Rindan@reddit
...uh, air conditioning.
Lots of people live in places where being outdoors will kill you. You will die in the winter time if you are outside with normal clothes on quickly where I live, and you will die in a few hours even with a basic jacket.
It isn't hard to survive these temperatures, it's just expensive if you live in a place that is poor or has bad infrastructure. It's a wealth issue, not an engineering issue.
genius_retard@reddit
Personal cooling base on phase change material.
AltrntivInDoomWorld@reddit
stop listening to right wing politicians, billionaires and demand actual change? something we are screaming for 40 years but you all call us doomerists, alarmysts, and woke people.
Lancashire_Toreador@reddit
Once again, I ask myself nuclear war tomorrow actually be better for the climate long-term than what we are currently doing?
Popular imagination about what it would look like is colored largely by intentionally falsified research from the 80s that was done to scare the shit out of politicians, but people still cite to the original TTAPS paper constantly either directly or through a chain of citations.
We know radiation isn’t as terrifying as it’s usually made out to be – most of the really hot stuff that kills you directly by radiation poisoning to cases within a couple of weeks, the direct destruction would be limited to within a few miles of any actual detonation, which means most of what’s left of wild areas would be effectively untouched. Almost all emissions cease immediately, all the economic activity that generates the need for emissions ceases immediately.
Honestly, the biggest concerns are to what extent cooling occurs and what happens when the few ongoing conservation projects collapse.
vonRyan_@reddit
Radiation is very much as scary as it is made out to be. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident
Emu1981@reddit
That was a relatively significant amount of highly radioactive material that would never exist in nature (or after a nuclear war) in significant quantities. Something that is kept rather quiet is the fact that modern thermonuclear warheads are relatively clean if they are air-burst* for maximum destruction. This is because a vast majority of their power comes from fusion which does not create a whole lot of radioactive isotopes. To die from acute radiation poisoning from a modern thermonuclear blast you would have to be within the fireball which would instantly vaporise you. If you survive the blast wave and the thermal radiation then your only real long term risk is a slightly elevated risk of cancer as you age.
Nuclear reactors (and medical isotopes) are where the real radiation risk lies. A reactor meltdown releases a ton of highly radioactive isotopes into the environment around the power plant and these isotopes can and will be readily absorbed by your body causing all sorts of short term and long term issues.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
WHY DID MULTIPLE PEOPLE THINK CRAMMING A SCREWDRIVER INTO IT AND PULLING OUT THE GLOWING, BLUE MATERIAL WAS A GOOD IDEA????
ycnz@reddit
People used to smear radium onto their gums.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
The Radium Girls is still less bad than the guy in the story giving a mysterious glowing blue substance to his six year old to play with. They at least, harmed only themselves
kafircake@reddit
They were lied to by their employers for years about the cause of their life changing injuries and excruciating deaths. They were harmed and the harm was allowed to continue by mendacious evil businesses because it was more profitable. You should read up on it rather than commenting something as repellent as suggesting they 'did it to themselves', it's a genuinely interesting story.
vonRyan_@reddit
The tl;dr of it is that they didn't know any better. You have to keep in mind that most victims largely did not have access to education further than the elementary school level, and this was the 80s, so access to information wasn't as easy as it is today.
There's a Netflix miniseries drama about that event called Radioactive Emergency, its an interesting watch.
Lancashire_Toreador@reddit
Different isotopes, different exposure mechanisms. The kind of fallout produced by groundbursts favors highly radioactive, short lived isotopes. While the kind of longer half life materials like the C137 in the Goiania incident are produced, they're also much more scattered compared to sticking a quarter pound of it in your pocket.
Yeah, some areas where fallout settles would be contaminated, but it's not like the majority of the entire planet gets rendered uninhabitable for millennia like our current climate change trajectory is gonna do
Treadwheel@reddit
I think the existence of humidex and the tendency people have to brag about how bad their climate is has really deadened the threat this poses. We're so used to quoting the "real feel" or "humidex" or whatever other brand name temperature that the numbers don't seem impressive at all. I've seen so many videos full of comments about how people in XYZ region regularly work outside in 45 degree heat and 100% humidity without a problem, and invariably then you actually check their weather data, what they insist is a normal daytime temperature is well above the hottest temperature ever recorded for their area, much less at that humidity. It doesn't matter - the news tells them it feels like 45, so it must be 45, and those climate change alarmists clearly just don't know how to read a weather forecast.
A lot of people are in for a very bad time when they find out what 35c and 100% humidity actually feels like. You can't even contextualize it for them because those indices break down entirely past the survivable wet bulb temperature - "above a humidex of 55c" is about the closest you can get.
Emu1981@reddit
I don't think many people realise what 25C+ with high humidity feels like because there are not that many places that actually get that hot and humid.
1egg_4u@reddit
Also keeping in mind this is going to be devaststing for wildlife
Animals cant regulate heat like we can, high heat is incredibly dangerous for most animals. We are going to see creatures dropping dead from excessive temperature and they arent going to be able to just find shelter like we can.
Emu1981@reddit
You mean like how tens of thousands of fruit bats/flying foxes are experiencing mass die-offs during heat waves here in Australia during the past decade or two? Or how a grass roots movement has started up over the years to provide water and shade for native animals to help them survive the brutal heatwaves?
In other words, we are already seeing mass animal deaths from excessive heat. It just isn't publicised much...
1egg_4u@reddit
This is actually exactly the very thing I was talking about! It was horrific
CagaliYoll@reddit
That's a very good point. Fish, reptiles and birds can't sweat. And most mammals don't use sweat as a primary cooling mechanism. They pant. A major heatwave in a poorer county could kill hundreds of people and millions of cattle. 10s of millions of wild animals.
1egg_4u@reddit
In Australia they already had fruit bats dropping dead out of trees during heat waves and they could afford that die off, those were a species that needs help bolstering their numbers if anything
Like people are so self centered we forget this isnt just about us we actually share this planet with a LOT of organisms
beton-brennt-doch@reddit
The article alway says the limit HAS been assumed to be a wet bulk temperature of 35°C, as if thats the old limit that had to be corrected to lower temperatures, but then I didn't see anything about the UPDATED limit. So what has the wet bulb limit been set to now? Did I misunderstand the article?
CagaliYoll@reddit
Your internal body temperature is 36-37°C
At wet bulb 35°C sweat no longer evaporates and you start to cook. No amount of water or fans help. Internal temps go up with no way to go down. Therefore the theoretical limit. Physics kills you.
The point of the article is that observational data shows that lower temps are also very deadly. Particularly for weaker members of the population (Old, young, sick) or those that simply aren't adapted to it.
30°C in the UK is very different from 30°C in Ontario. Even at the same humidity. People aren't used to it, buildings aren't built for it, cultures aren't prepared for it.
wet_suit_one@reddit
Remember folks, climate change is a hoax!
historicusXIII@reddit
It's not only exposure to high temperatures, but also the lack of cooling periods after day peaks. I remember the 40°C heatwave in Western Europe a few years back. You had to wait until after sun set before it was somewhat bareable to go outside. That also makes it very hard to cool your house at night without AC. We managed to keep inside temp at 26, but I know people who had to sleep in a 32°C appartement. This is what kills people. We're approaching an era where not having AC means gambling with your life every summer for more than half of human population.
ThatHeckinFox@reddit
A few years ago i was visting a friend during the summer. We were insanely sleepy and tired, but it took until 2AM until the tempreature cooled down to 28°C
Ephemeral-lament@reddit
I cant wait for the day when ‘climate migrants’ becomes a thing and we’ll see how much as humans we’ve scorched the land and there’s no turning back.
Dahks@reddit
It's already a thing, and a term that is considered by both academic studies and migrant and refugee organizations.
But it's difficult to identify climate migrants because they won't often say "I'm migrating because of climate change", but instead "I can't find a job" or other motives, but then it's because they lost their farmland because temperatures rising. It's a bit clearer when there have been a natural disaster and people lose their homes, but then people also argue about the "link" between the disaster (a flood, a hurricane, etc.) and climate change as a whole.
Kiboune@reddit
Weather changed a lot in last 20 years. Winters aren't nearly as cold as they used to be and summers are unbearable. Sometimes I wonder what maybe alpha generation will be the last one, if everything will keep going to shit like this
death556@reddit
Winter was unbearably cold this year here in Deleware
TSMKFail@reddit
I remember when as a kid we'd get decent snowfall during the winter. I've seen less and less every year, with only one week of decent snowfall in the last 5 years that I can remember. I think we had 1 day of snow where it didn't immediately melt this past year.
Going back even further, the local lake used to freeze, but I haven't seen that in my lifetime.
Summers are also getting less and less bearable, especially as someone who does quite physical work.
Not looking forward to the future.
OwenEx@reddit
Gen Beta are just now being born
PositiveFunction4751@reddit
I won't have kids for this exact reason
LizardPosse@reddit
More and more of my colleagues and acquaintances are having kids and I can’t help but think these people are must be so wilfully ignorant.
How could you possibly want to put children through this?
GreeboBirb@reddit
Maybe they can be the people who will actually get off their asses and start firebombing walmarts, who knows.
TheBoraxKid1trblz@reddit
No it won't solve this but it will really help if human population is fewer billions. Resource demand is a large driving force of climate change. Although there are bigger issues like the fossil fuel barons that have fought tooth and nail to keep societies reliant on their energy, impeding alternative energy adoption and persuading governments to go to war for their resources. And the inherent unsustainability of capitalism. But if populations stopped growing and became stable it would force the adoption of new economic models. So you're right, antinatalism is not the solution, replacement rate is once attaining a population that isn't consuming Earth at unsustainable rates
you_wizard@reddit
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/20/richest-1-account-for-more-carbon-emissions-than-poorest-66-report-says
It's not the amount of people, it's the expense per person. If you reduce the population to half, but those people come to expect lavish day-to-day lives, the planet is worse off than before.
Tackle the most wasteful top end and you can solve half of the problem.
The major issues of our time have always been trolley problems.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
I was raised in a christofacist environment of full-on brainwashing. I was not allowed to go to school because under my moms model/version/flavor of it, girls don't need to go to school when their job is to be barefoot in the kitchen, crapping out kids. I wound up having kids before I started to learn about the world, and now I'm a full-on "radical left", divorced, no contact with all bio family who did that to me, pro science, pro education, etc, human. One who now knows about collapse, but who already has kids.
LizardPosse@reddit
Oh it definitely is. Odds of humanity surviving the next 100 years are near zero.
GreeboBirb@reddit
With that attitude, maybe.
LizardPosse@reddit
Within the next 30 years the Middle East will be uninhabitable due to climate change, mass exodus into Europe. Racial tensions are already extremely high, Europe can't support that many refugees.
Crop failures will become more and more common, we will look back on today and think how did we take such abundance for granted.
Even if humanity does survive it's not a world you want to live in.
Haven't even mentioned the increased likelihood of war, increased chance of natural disasters etc.
Stick your head in the sand if you want I guess.
space253@reddit
We already have everything we need to make underground grow rooms that use solar housed above and aeroponics in a sealed environment to recapture and reuse 80% of water, while using way less even before that.
They exist right now.
LizardPosse@reddit
Yeah that sounds really scalable for 8 billion people actually.
GreeboBirb@reddit
Yeah, that will happen. What are you doing to stop it? Or would you rather cry about your powerlessness while you still have your hands and legs and a head on your shoulders?
Thorlissa@reddit
I'm of an age where before it really starts to affect me I will be too old to really care. I realised at a young age that I am just not of the socioeconomic class to really effect meaningful change. I have yet to see any meaningful will from the masses.
Current plan is to live it up hedonist style until the music stops. No kids for me though, no great loss though; Last thing this world needs is another mouth to feed.
PerforatedPie@reddit
Exactly. Antinatalism gives us Idiocracy.
theonly_brunswick@reddit
Children are the future of humanity and you can have hope without a future.
TheBoraxKid1trblz@reddit
A lot of people are really good about disassociating from reality. Hope, wealth, toxic positivity, personal anecdote, and biological urge all help people ignore the changes all around them. "Don't think so negative" is the response i get
church-rosser@reddit
at 25 my ex and I made the same decision. Im 50 now, the ex is long gone and im now with woman with 3x kids all college aged. they are wonderful beautiful people and sometimes i wish i had offspring of my own because i love and adore hers so much. Still, when i imagine their future and the future of their offspring I am truly horrified at what their future likely holds. It's not pretty and i cant help but think it is a crime to reproduce and bring youngsters unwillingly into this world. God help them all, they're gonna need it.
certifedcupcake@reddit
Read something the other day. “Do you know how badly you have to abuse a mammal to make it not want to reproduce?”
Thats all of us. Abused mammals refusing to reproduce.
Ok_Art6263@reddit
Huh, makes me understands why some endangered animals especially those that has extincted in the wild sometimes just refuses to reproduce despite the quality of live in the captivity.
huehuehuehuehuuuu@reddit
Pandas actually reproduce just fine in the wild once protected habitats were set up. Captive pandas don’t enjoy nearly the range they need naturally. It’s a super nice big cubicle where people feed you and play with you and parade a bevy of the opposite sex before you, but it’s is still a cubicle.
Would you want to raise your kids in a cubicle?
And that’s what we face right now, a world of shrinking possibilities that we can see and process and predict with our human brains.
Australian cattle had mass miscarriages during wildfires. We are more aware than cattle, I hope.
Rukoo@reddit
Must be people around the world are having different expereinces. I live in western New York. The last two winters have been my childhood 90's winters.
huehuehuehuehuuuu@reddit
Because the polar vortex is failing.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
Right? Why do people think "oh my winter was colder, so, you're wrong". Sweden had a historic winter this past year, meanwhile where I'm at in Texas, it was 80 on Christmas day.
Satierfoira@reddit
I have a masters degree in Environmental Sciences and I agree with you. Been telling people that for the past 10 years and everyone always looked at me like I'm crazy. Now people are starting to understand
Reallyhotshowers@reddit
Are they? The headlines keep coming and people might furrow their brows and go "Hmm, worrying" but then they move on with their day.
I don't think they do understand. If they did they'd be much angrier and more panicked.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
I'm going to think about the wet bulb factor today when I'm at my doctors appointment and they're checking my blood pressure, I want to watch those numbers soar
HeKis4@reddit
Yeah the winter thing is the one that's bothering me. I live at the foot of the alps and we used to have -5°C weeks at 300m altitude every couple winter with snow on the plains, now we're lucky to have a few subzero days per year and snow will hold for two days instead of two weeks. The lowest ski resorts (800-1000m) are all struggling with coverage even with artificial snow since they require subzero temps. I don't think there's a single glacier that's not shrinking at record pace.
drgr33nthmb@reddit
Meanwhile where I live, its been winter for 6 months, and we are breaking records for cold days in the spring lol
furimmerkaiser@reddit
Don't act all surprised. Scientists have been warning us from decades and if anyone remembered the IPCC report of 2018 or 2019, they clearly warned us that we will feel the impact in 5 to 6 years.
AwfulAtScreenNames@reddit
Oil executives are culpable for millions of deaths to come.
RydderRichards@reddit
It's always other people, luckily. We, as consumers, are never at fault.
AwfulAtScreenNames@reddit
Blaming the average person is just fossil industry propaganda.
RydderRichards@reddit
Ignoring your pollution so you don't have to feel bad?
AwfulAtScreenNames@reddit
Billionaire bootlicker.
RydderRichards@reddit
Oh no, name-calling.... That means you must be right.
Continue destroying the planet for your personal gain. At least you get to point at even richer people (who are also to blame)
SmugDruggler95@reddit
Are we supposed to just kill ourselves?
RydderRichards@reddit
A bit overly dramatic, are we?
SmugDruggler95@reddit
No but its always best to start these disagreements from an extreme and work back towards a sensible middle ground.
So its overly dramatic to kill ourselves.
How else do we remove ourselves from the waste and abuse of Earth?
Do we quit our jobs, move into the wilderness and practice subsistence farming?
RydderRichards@reddit
Nobody said remove. But we surely can reduce how much and what we consume? We surely can pollute less.
There are people on this planet that pollute much much less than you and me. Without killing themselves
SmugDruggler95@reddit
Yes but is that because they live in cultures that allow them to do so?
Is it by choice or by economic reality?
(Its the latter)
AwfulAtScreenNames@reddit
Pitting average people against each other achieves nothing. This only serves the interests of the fossil industry ghouls who would kill us all for one more dollar.
RydderRichards@reddit
I'm not pitting anybody against anybody. I just can't sit idly by while people that are polluting the planet are acting like it's actually other people.
Of nobody would profit off of the oil coming out of the ground, would it stay in the ground? Absolutely not.
McToke666@reddit
Come the fuck on man, we've known for a while that the top 10% are responsible for two thirds of the emissions since the 90s. Get your head out of your ass.
RydderRichards@reddit
No, we don't know that. Just because they dug the oil out of the ground to sell it to you doesn't mean the emissions are theirs alone.
Or are you telling me the oil would stay in the ground otherwise?
Lyzern@reddit
If I don't eat I'll die
To eat food I need to work
To work I need a car
Gas prices keep increasing among other things so I can't afford an alternative
Don't even try it with the public transportation lmao, not an applicable argument for me. Neither is biking
Please lecture me as a "consumer" more
great_apple@reddit
You can drastically reduce your carbon emissions without giving up driving.
RydderRichards@reddit
Soooo the only thing you consume is food?
And "public transit not working for you" is surely why you voted for parties that'll change that, right?
Lyzern@reddit
We were talking about gas. I responded as someone who "consumes" gas. Food is the most valuable thing I use my money for, which I get from working for which I need a car that needs gas.
Hope I clarified it for you.
And yes, I voted for the party in my country that favors public transportation, healthcare, claims to want to lower cost of living and accessibility to everyone.
You need to understand that our society is dependent on these mega corps unfortunately and there is very little that we as consumers can do to make a change (except voting, a very valid point you brought up) without basically starving
RydderRichards@reddit
No, I was talking about pollution. You were talking about gas.
We absolutely can do a lot. Billions of consumers have power and a voice.
We all can consume less, that's a very easy thing to do.
xFreddyFazbearx@reddit
No actually I'm pretty sure in this case it is actually the industry's fault
AltrntivInDoomWorld@reddit
Nuance is dead on internet. It has to be SINGLE person or group's fault.
Perhaps we are all at fault?
xFreddyFazbearx@reddit
No, we're not all at fault. The people with billions of dollars, pumping it into further destroying the planet for profit, are the ones at fault. Getting people to boycott anything is difficult, getting enough people to overhaul the entire past 100-150 years of using oil and instead using an alternative is near-impossible. The real way to stop it is to put limits on the amount the oil execs can do; when money is power, the rich have more of it.
Blaming other people at the bottom and saying "we're all at fault" isn't enlightenment, it's misanthropy.
RydderRichards@reddit
"at the bottom". You mean the richest people on the planet aren't to blame because a select few are even richer? Isn't that something...
xFreddyFazbearx@reddit
... what? Like, are you actually reading what I say, or are deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying to provoke arguments, because that's not at all what I said. That's not even in the same solar system as what I said.
"The bottom" in this case is you and me. The working people, the average person, y'know, most people on planet earth.
RydderRichards@reddit
Since you are on reddit you are very likely not the bottom, but the top. If you are in the west you are at the very top, except for a select few.
And yes, our consumption is to blame. Sure, companies are to blame too, but you don't get to drive, fly and consume for cheap and tell me your pollution doesn't matter.
AwfulAtScreenNames@reddit
There's no nuance about this. Fossil industry executives deliberately hid the evidence about the effect of greenhouse gas emissions and sabotaged efforts to curtail emissions. They manufactured uncertainty into the public discourse so that they could keep making money while the masses suffer from their decisions. These people are the enemies of humanity.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
You’re assuming that they are not a paid shill or a bot working for the oil companies.
ymOx@reddit
Ofcourse, but we can't stop talking about it because not enough people; the people that have the power to do anything about it, doesn't get it yet.
neverfoundagirl@reddit
Lol yeah they've been sounding the alarm since the 70s at least
M4DM1ND@reddit
My wife and I moved out to Phoenix in 2023 from the Midwest. You really can't do anything outside during the day in the summer. I had to mentally consider Phoenix summer to be the equivalent of a Midwestern winter. We considered staying here permanently but I keep seeing study after study that is saying that Phoenix may be straight up uninhabitable in 10-20 years.
Strawbuddy@reddit
Heat, humidity, insects, and disease will radiate further and further from the equator. The Midwest is becoming a USDA Sub-tropical zone. Zika, malaria, new invasive species, new parasites
M4DM1ND@reddit
The Midwest definitely has its own problems but I forsee the areas around the great lakes being highly desirable land in the perhaps not so distant future if the climate continues to decline.
LoudCommentor@reddit
I believe our climate is changing and that we are facing an impending crisis.
But please also note that the research result is 35 degrees for SIX HOURS with no shade for OVER 65 at 80% humidity. At 50% humidity, it's \~38 degrees for six hours no shade for over 65s.
In the shade, 60% humidity is 40 degrees air temperature IN THE SHADE (ie significantly hotter outside of the shade).
This is absolutely an issue for older folks living in older homes who can't afford, or won't, turn on their fans or aircons or drink enough water.
It is still decently far for being an issue for regular folk.
HeKis4@reddit
Idk man, we've been getting peaks at 37°C/40% here in southeastern France, that feels pretty damn close considering 40/60 is deadly if you don't have AC.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
which part of France are you in? I'm in the process of moving to Tourcoing
HeKis4@reddit
Grenoble area. The city is known for hellish periods in the summer but last summer is the only time we got 35°C for more than a week straight.
Schlachthausfred@reddit
No, it's not. You need to factor in poverty. The homeless don't have shelter and many people across the globe don't have airconditioning and can't really install that either. Thing about places like the favelas or slums.
CoffeeWorldly9915@reddit
The epstein class would say it's a self-solving problem :v.
TheDaveStrider@reddit
a lot of houses in even well-off countries don't have air conditioning. because the homes weren't built with these temperatures in mind... the only place i've been where most people have A/C is the USA.
Successful-Bobcat701@reddit
Everyone has AC in Saudi Arabia
Teantis@reddit
The Philippines less than 20% of homes have air-conditioning. We also have a shaky power situation, so that could quickly turn into 0% in a given city or province.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
Right? Like right now, the entirety of Cuba doesn't have reliable power because of fuckface. Guess it's "decently far for being an issue for regular folk" though so it's okay
EvanTurningTheCorner@reddit
Imagine a prolonged power outage in Phoenix in the middle of Summer, which could happen for any number of reasons.
Imagine Trump follows through with his threat to blow up power plants in Iran, but in the middle of Summer.
aykcak@reddit
You are all making the assumptions that the weather will be as it is in the coming decades.
And you are also making the assumption that we would not lose access have power and water for extended periods of time
TimeIntern957@reddit
All climate policy is built on bunch of assumptions.
AltrntivInDoomWorld@reddit
Lemme guess, COVID was designed to kill us, and vaccines are mind controllers?
Thick-Duck-7022@reddit
And also the assumption that they'll never become "older folks" while also not dying before getting old.
AltrntivInDoomWorld@reddit
/r/confidentlyincorrect
earblah@reddit
A lot of thooose temperature and humidity numbers are just regular summer day in much of the tropics and sub tropics.
kaihu47@reddit
Fans do not help with wet bulb events; the humidity means that there is no evaporation, so moving the wet, hot air around (which is what fans do) did not provide any cooling.
Sweating is rendered useless by wet bulb events, which is why they are so dangerous - the only way to cool off is to have some kind of other, cooler medium to exchange heat with (e.g. actual air conditioned air, cool water etc) - such events though tend to happen more often in poorer countries where fewer people have access to air conditioning; also worth keeping in mind that when everyone runs their AC during such times huge stress is placed on power grids, so power outages often correlate with extreme heat.
HeKis4@reddit
Worth mentioning that wet bulb temp is the lowest possible temp you can cool something with evaporation, you don't need a 100% humidity "wet bulb event" to reach deadly wet bulb temperatures. Wet bulb temp is the temp with the fan already on and a wet shirt on your back.
imunfair@reddit
Yeah I expect India to be a pending catastrophe, between the heat, the impending water shortage from their glaciers disappearing, and the overpopulation. I'm sure some people will die but a lot will try to go elsewhere - which will further burden countries that are currently more sustainable.
great_apple@reddit
And they have absolutely massive populations living in slums with no or little access to A/C, in some of the areas most likely to see wet bulb events. It will be absolutely devastating.
No-Spoilers@reddit
Water is gonna be the big one, I mean it isn't just them. All of south Asia are going to be fighting over water soon, as countries build dams up river they have direct control over countries below them. The water wars will be a thing real soon, and the world isn't prepping for it.
wet_suit_one@reddit
So...
When are we setting up the Ministry of the Future.
The initiating event is on its way. We should ready ourselves. Then again, probably the world doesn't have it in it to do what is necessary to preserve ourselves.
Ah well...
Nothing lasts forever.
Antique-Quail-6489@reddit
I was in Sevilla in 2004 in the summer as a tourist and I’m pretty sure I came very close to a heatstroke. It was so hot and there weren’t any trees. I can’t imagine that with worst temperatures :/
Bruncvik@reddit
For people interested in the wet bulb effect, I recommend The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson. This is a science fiction (science prediction) book, in a style that may not appeal to everybody, but it starts with a very vivid and very scary depiction of such a wet bulb event.
avellaneda@reddit
It was horrifying.
Protect-Their-Smiles@reddit
And the heatwaves will have cascading effects, so A will lead to B will lead to C. And C is going to be added to A and B, so it is a compounding hurt. We've fucked ourselves out of a stable future.