Eve/Livia was not worth the 25-year time jump on Xena.
Posted by itsascreambaby96@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 116 comments
It always felt like the show blew up its own world just to center a character who never really earned it. If you’re going to jump 25 years and reset everything, the payoff has to be huge. Eve just… isn’t that.
She’s supposed to be Callisto reborn, which is a massive deal, and yet it doesn’t feel like it at all. That same intensity, that unpredictability, that presence Callisto had is just gone. Adrienne Wilkinson is fine, but she doesn’t have that kind of weight, so the whole idea falls flat from the start.
And then you look at what the show sacrificed to make this happen. Cyrene is gone. Joxer is killed off by Eve. Callisto is gone for good. Hercules and Iolaus are basically out of the picture. The gods are wiped out except Ares and Aphrodite. Gabrielle’s family gets completely destroyed in some of the darkest ways the show ever went.
It’s not even just a time jump, it’s like the show erased everything people cared about.
And the replacements don’t make it better. Virgil comes in, but he doesn’t fill Joxer’s role in any meaningful way, and then he disappears too. Eve ends up fading out before the finale as well, which makes the whole thing feel even more pointless.
So in the end, the show gave up a huge part of what made it work for a storyline that doesn’t land and characters that don’t stick. It just doesn’t feel like a fair trade.
Jahon_Dony@reddit
I'll add -- Livia was cool. It's Eve that was boring. I wish some of that same Xena / Callisto zest could have stayed with the character post-good conversion.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
Coming Home is what Eve should been like she was still fighting but not completely helpless
Jahon_Dony@reddit
I just missed her exciting Callisto-zest as Livia.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
apparently so did Adrienne Wilkinson too she hated playing Eve
Wild_Willingness_190@reddit
That tracks, Eve was such a flat character, and a lot of that was the writing too.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
She even mentioned once in an interview that she LAUGHED when Gabrielle hit Eve on the head with the statue in Heart of Darkness
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
It shows, unfortunately.
Advanced-Log5899@reddit
Io trovo che il salto temporale di 25 anni sia una grande genialata l'unico problema è il personaggio di Eve che è noioso a tratti inutile, mentre Livia era un bel personaggio!
Mysterious-Stand-944@reddit
It was a jump the shark moment.
DameEris@reddit
I agree that they dropped the ball. The trade off definitely wasn't worth it. However.... Back off of Adrienne Wilkinson. She actually did a brilliant job of combining and reinventing the combination of Callisto and Xena. Don't get me wrong, I freaking loathe that character. She is a steaming turd on the kore. But what made her annoying wasn't that she wasn't like Xena or Callisto. What was awful was the she exemplified their worst traits AND seemed stuck in that 14 yr old indignant huff of baseless superiority. THAT'S what sucked about her. I don't know if that lack of maturity and accountability was the choice of the actress, the director, or the writer. Do you know for sure?
I can't stand the character either. I definitely would have traded back given the option. But we did see some pretty impressive performances from time to time. The way things change on a film set I wonder if the people making the show knew what they wanted her to do. You can see the clear character progression and personality in Xena, Gabrielle, Callisto, Joxer, Aphrodite (ok, that one bounced around a little but I have theories).
Not every story arc is plotted with loving care over years. Sometimes story suffers in the improvisation. Considering how "Angel the Series " dealt with Charisma Carpenter's unexpected pregnancy, I gotta say, it could be worse. Just keeping it in perspective.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
idk at least the Jasmine character was interesting and Gina Torres played her beautifully imo we at least got a good send off to Cordelia in Angel season five.
DameEris@reddit
Okay, do only want to discuss plot while turning an intentional blind eye to anything that happens off screen and how that affects things? That seems to denote a lack of empathy for the performers who embody these characters. That's not very nice of you
lavenderjane@reddit
I watched the show as it aired back in the day. It was INVESTED! I absolutely hated the time jump. Completely agree with OP it destroyed what was special about the show and the characters we loved. I couldn't stand Eve. As a bad guy she came across as a petulant child. As a "redeemed" character she came across as lame and pitiful. There was nothing compelling about her at all.
I wish Xena, Gabrielle, and baby Eve had settled down with the Amazons. They could have still gone out adventuring while Eve stayed at camp and we could have had some really compelling stories with the other amazons. There were ways to overcome the pregnancy thing that would have been much more satisfying than what they did.
magical_lasso@reddit
You are sooooo right. Speaking of the Amazons, it would've made much more sense for them to have hatched a plan for the Amazons to be involved in protecting Eve. I know their plans got dismantled when Ares put their bodies in the ice cave, but how in the hell did they trust a ROMAN they JUST MET to take care of Eve for any period of time???
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit
That little detail doesn't make any sense. I get the feeling Xena's checkered past with the Amazons is probably why they didn't leave Eve in their care.
I wonder then if Gabrielle was upset at this decision. She even said Eve would be better protected with them, but Xena couldn't stand the communal aspect. Maybe because she would also have to share Gabrielle??
magical_lasso@reddit
I think this made me realize and help process why I've been so avoidant of Season 6 over the years - not just because of the ending I refuse to this day to rewatch or give any credit to, but also just... the lack of "payoff?" Eve barely had any kind of presence, and her "redemption" feels rushed, she ends up not really factoring in at all except for the point someone brings up in this thread which is that we know Xena had descendants.
But Season 6 feels so... lifeless? I need a better word, I guess. Like others have said, wildly enjoy the subtext - they really let loose with it in the last season - but we didn't have Cyrene, Joxer (can you imagine how hilarious he would've been in You Are There?), Autolycus, Callisto, Herc/Ioalus, Gab's fam, even the Amazons we knew were replaced by new Amazons! Virgil's character has little weight in my opinion, and he disappears as you said.
Season 6 also feels really bleak to me in many ways. It feels like the world has changed/is changing and Xena/Gab just don't fit it anymore. I don't know if that makes sense. But the Amazons are dwindling instead of thriving and the centaurs are going extinct and the Greek gods are dead, and I don't know it just feels freakin weird.
Still, I'm doing a massive rewatch and trying to keep an open mind when it comes to Season 6, I just can't seem to get past a lot of what you bring up here.
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit
Season 6 feels like an entirely different show. Eve had the potential to be like Gabrielle, since she gave up killing, and it makes sense why. Still, it's rife with death and an overall somber tone.
Why were the Amazons replaced? Gabrielle's tribe would've made more sense. Regardless, she leads the Northern Amazons from Bellerophon's clutches and watches as several of them perish. The last shot of this ep is so sad and makes me even angrier at the show's ending.
The subtext becomes main text by this point, and I love that for X/G. However, I also don't like how Eve hardly got to bond w/ Gabrielle, and then she leaves to do her own thing...Gabrielle and Xena deserved a chance to raise her.
RatherBeAtDisneyland@reddit
I cut them some slack for it. With Lucy Lawless being heavily pregnant, they had to come up with something. Since she had already lost Solan, they couldn’t repeat that plot. They also couldn’t travel around the rest of the show with a baby in tow. And Xena’s character would leave her baby with a relative. I feel like they did the best they could do under the circumstances. I’m guessing they tried to see if they could delay the shooting until her baby arrived, but couldn’t. It’s definitely not perfect, but they tried. I think they gave her the Eve arc (where she has to go off on her own to redeem herself) so that she wasn’t a constant character.
invisiblebyday@reddit
I was fine with incorporating a real life pregnancy. I would have preferred that Xena and Gabrielle keep the baby and just pass her off to friends to babysit whenever was needed. It's not a perfect solution but I'd prefer it to the time jump or trying to disguise LL's pregnancy.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
why didn't they just put Xena in a new outfit like Xena's maternity armor that she first wears in Succession before she even finds out she's pregnant? put her in that until Lucy gave birth no need to make Xena pregnant
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
I've definitely seen shows that just sort of suspended disbelief. Like yes, the actress is fairly obviously pregnant and large handbags aren't quite cutting it, but the character is not pregnant.
IseQween@reddit
I also cut them slack for finding a way to incorporate Lucy's pregnancy so we could see as much of Xena as possible. While I'm not a fan of the time jump, I'm less a fan of the Twilight of the Gods stuff. Poor Livia/Eve was already burdened with the Cally/Xena combo and virtually no time to develop believable mother/daughter chemistry. Making her a transition from the Greek gods to Eli's god also overshadowed possibilities of her as a character in her own right. As a "stranger" standing in for all the beloved "family" members that disappeared didn't help either. I don't fault Adrienne Wilkson for doing her best in that situation. It wasn't perfect, but I haven't seen any alternative ideas that would've been better.
invisiblebyday@reddit
There was no payoff for the 25 year jump except as a way of preventing Xena and Gabrielle from having to care for a baby the rest of the series. They could have skipped the whole 25 year jump/god killer plot line and have Xena and Gabrielle keep baby Eve. As needed, one of their friends could have stepped and said "I'll look after the baby while you go do X."
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit
Maybe this is controversial, but I hated that Callisto was reborn. She was such a well-written character, so what was the point of Xena and Callisto seeing eye to eye (sorta) if it was all going to go to hell anyway?
Seasons 5 and 6 are utterly devastating and depressing. Season 3 may be incredibly dark, but both Xena and Gabrielle still have people in their corner. The time jump eradicates all that. Why make Cyrene and Gabrielle's family go through such horrific deaths - what purpose did it serve? Joxer's death was really sad because we don't know if Meg ever heals from it, and I can't imagine she does. At least she has her children.
Byanychance@reddit
Season 5 and 6 are not canon as far as I’m concerned lol
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit
Not canon at all? Hmmm....
They're both not great - the premise of Xena having another child, and it being a way for her and Gabrielle to heal from past wounds, was something I personally would've liked to see. For a show about redemption and second chances, it's incredibly grim 😐
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
For me Callisto's real end is the reuniting with her parents at the end of Fallen Angel. That's her truer ending and the one that was meant to be until some idiot came up with the 'reborn' thing.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
Cyrene calling out Xena's name while being burned alive as a witch was just emotionally draining for me
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit
The writers really said how we can make this more difficult to watch??
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
also allegedly I read on this sub that Varia was originally written to be the queen of Gabrielle's tribe but it was scrapped
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit
Wait, really? Huh, I wonder how that would've changed things...I preferred her tribe to the Northern Amazons personally.
One scrapped idea for season 5 was for Gabrielle to make a deal with Ares in return for the guaranteed protection of Xena and Eve.
HedgehogPlenty3745@reddit
They didn’t do it it center Eve/Livia, they did it to avoid having a baby in the story for Xena to deal with. Look at interviews Xena did back in 00 about it ‘we had to include a pregnancy because I was pregnant and then figure out a way to 86 the baby’ etc.
They had to make Eve/Livia a feature after the time jump because of course Xena would go looking for her daughter. Anything else would be out of character.
pastajewelry@reddit
It would've made sense for the baby to stay with Cyrene in some demiplane created by Aphrodite to protect them (kinda like in Sleeping Beauty). Or like had to choose to adopt her out to avoid people knowing her true identity.
DixonDebussy@reddit
I get it and hate it. They should've just created a nanny god or something, someone who could protect the baby and bring her back to Xena every now and then, while letting it be known to us that she didn't abandon Livia and she's still active in raising and caring for the child
Wise_Airport5655@reddit
Afrodite como babá ia ser hilário 🤣🤣🤣
awesome118@reddit
I get it and dont hate it
pastajewelry@reddit
I felt that Eve should've struggled more with her own morality. It felt like she got baptized and flipped a switch. Like, it shouldn't be that easy. I wish they did more with her character to make her unique.
Designer_Stage_489@reddit
The idea of a 25-year time jump is excellent, if you consider how epic this could be to end the show on as a climax. But having another season with most of the recurring characters gone? It just felt empty. What could have happened was at the end of season 5 Xena, Gabrielle and baby Eve go into hiding. Season 6 sees the gods discover Xena and Eve are still alive a few years later, forcing Xena to come out of retirement and back into warrior princess mode. There's no baby Eve to slow the action down; Eve is now a seven or eight-year-old girl, old enough to be her own character yet younger enough to fill the role Gabrielle had early on, where she needs rescuing all the time. Heck, Eve could even be the perfect product of Xena and Gabrielle's upbringing, skilled enough to be a warrior but skilled with a quill, too, filled with Xena's fiery temperament but also Gabrielle's philosophical side. Eventually, season 6 could end with the big epic fight against the gods that season 5 had, which, let's face it, was a far more fitting end to the show than what we got in season 6.
Due-Local-4870@reddit
Not a bad idea, but they would have to start aging Xena and I think that was still a no-no in the 90s.
islandgirl39@reddit
Yes , they could have given Gabrielle and the side characters more material to work with, do what they did when Kevin Sorbo was sick during Herc's season 4 the Iolaus , Autoculuyus etc had more storys etc
Byanychance@reddit
Wilkinson was a very poor actress. If they got a formidable actress the storyline would’ve been very exciting and saved the season.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
or just cast Hudson as Livia/Eve put a Xena wig on her
Byanychance@reddit
Too on the nose, even for XWP
KatzAKat@reddit
Hudson Leick was a problem to work with. She was slated to have a jump off series but worked her way out of it.
And yeah, Wilkinson was awful to watch.
Byanychance@reddit
Never heard of Hudson being a problem to work with. Can you elaborate on that?
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
Never heard Hudson was a problem to work with?
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
I wonder if they thought about casting Hudson to be grown up Eve.
Evilbuffy14@reddit
I don't know. I think she did well as Livia, though not so good as Eve. I'd blame the writers for that one, personally.
Ok-Change2292@reddit
They could have had the whole pregnancy, prophesy thing be a bad dream that Gabrielle had.
LavenderSprinkles@reddit
Couldn't agree more. Pretty much nothing good came from giving Xena a child. The disposal of every supporting character made season 6 unwatchable for me at the time, and there are still a few episodes to this day I haven't seen because of the sour taste it left for me.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
I love season 6 for the subtext and it has solid episodes like Who's Gurkhan but I just hated seeing Gabrielle being given MORE TRAUMA than she already has from Hope and Dahak by slaughtering her family and brother in law
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit
I can't imagine the guilt she felt for what happened to Sarah. It wasn't her fault, but Gabrielle has such a big heart that she probably internalized a lot of her trauma.
Do you think she should've killed Gurkhan? Ik there are mixed reactions about her not going through with the plan to kill him. Curious to hear your take on it since you loathe all the accumulated trauma Gabrielle went through in the later seasons, which I do as well.
Wise_Airport5655@reddit
Ainda faltou finalizarem a história de Sarah.
Sarah apareceu em somente um episódio e sumiu..
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit
She deserved better.
She missed out on so much of her life, so I would've liked to see her again, preferably with her mom and aunt. Even this would've been a better ending 😭
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
nope Im happy Gabrielle didn't kill him she's not a murderous
Popular-One-7051@reddit
Agreed. I do really like the Ring Cycle and WFC is always my finale. They could have ridden off I to the sunset together. I can't watch AFIN for a ton of reasons but I couldn't stand watching gabrielle sail off without the love of her life.
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
Plus now following FIN she's sooooo alone. Most of her friends and family are gone and she can't go back. It's not like we see her bonding much with grown up Eve.
nonmiraculoussunofaB@reddit
The only purpose I can see for making sure Xena had another kid was the whole descendants storyline they set up earlier in the series. Xena needed to have a kid that lived until adulthood to have kids of their own, carrying on her line.
But unfortunately all this lined up during the season that they had the *worst* writers. Better storytellers could've made Lucy's pregnancy and Xena's second child work better.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
Also there are episodes like the Ring Trilogy where the writers act like Xena and Gabrielle don't have a daughter at all not even mentioning her whereabouts during an episode she doesn't appear
Jahon_Dony@reddit
I'm getting sick of this new trend of people calling Eve "Gabrielle's" daughter... it's not right and it's insulting to everything Xena went through to even have her, let alone keep her alive.
multiplecats@reddit
When will you get to full on sick? Let us know.
TypesAndPatterns@reddit
Which Gabrielle also went through. It’s mentioned multiple times on the show that Gabrielle is her parent as well.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
and Xena also said "no we got our daughter back" in Motherhood so she's Gabrielle's child too
Jahon_Dony@reddit
Lol, sure...
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
Xena literally said in Seeds of Faith that Gabrielle fills in the father role for Eve
Jahon_Dony@reddit
Quote it (in context) when you can.
It was likely said as a JOKE.
HedgehogPlenty3745@reddit
They didn’t give Xena a child, Lucy got pregnant which is impossible to hide.
LavenderSprinkles@reddit
There are ways they could've handled it that weren't just the basic "actress is pregnant now so is character".
There was a post a while back that brought up how they could've done some time travel shenanigans with Gabrielle who goes back in time to see Xena when she's preggers with Solan. That sounds leagues better than what we got.
HedgehogPlenty3745@reddit
Gotta think of it in the context of late 90s. A lot of 90s shows had their stars pregnant and tried to hide it, and copped heavy criticism for treating their audience like idiots. Also the idea of Gabrielle timejumping would have been a cool novelty for about 2 episodes max but her pregnancy lasted almost an entire season.
lapniappe@reddit
i figure they could have done a lot of stuff to not have the time jump. When Kevin Sorbo was recovering from his illnesses, they compensated. I think they could have done that with Xena : maybe focus on the Amazon/Cenaturs. develop Athena more (I did like her in her short stint). there were options.
I mean heck - they could have kept the baby and eliminate the whole "Because of Eve, Xena has god murdering powers." just have her visit Cyrene more often and have the struggle of being a mum but wanting to do the grater good. (sort of like Solon again but this time, somewhat happier)..
Away-Living5278@reddit
Agreed. There was simply no hiding it. And they couldn't have her give her kid away after Solon (to her mom to raise). So they did the best they could.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
Xena was wearing a maternity armor in Succession that hid most of Lucy's pregnancy
HedgehogPlenty3745@reddit
Lol. It was clear as day.
Wise_Airport5655@reddit
Concordo com você, fiquei traumatizada com a forma quê mataram os pais de Gabrielle, Celene, Joxer e ainda mataram Argo. Sobrou até pra Argo 🤦🏽♀️🥺🤡
Particularmente, vejo eles como uma grande família, Xena, Gabi, Argo, Celene, Joxer, Eve, Pais da Gabi, irmã da Gabi, Mirian...
Mas, no final não souberam concluir o arco de cada personagem direito. 🫠
ChoiceMedicine1462@reddit
I never liked Eve/Livia story line
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Well the whole concept of her having Callisto's 'bloodlust' is a stupid idea anyway because Callisto was pure again when she became Eve so you can't really attribute her behaviour to Callisto in that sense. The 25 year jump, Eve and killing Joxer were three of the worst creative decisions ever made in the series. However there are some great stories in Season 6 like Who's Gurkhan, Legacy, The Abyss, The Ring Trilogy, You Are There that make Season 6 worthwhile for me. It's definitely a better season for me than Season 4.
Popular-One-7051@reddit
Ditto. also WFC which is my finale. im all about riding off into the sunset happy
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
I like You Are There, Coming Home, Old Ares Had A Farm, and When Fates Collide. The Ring Trilogy is fine.
I don't like the Amazon ones with Varia, and I avoid the dark episodes. So much of S6 is grim watching.
Fair-Victory-3531@reddit
I understand from a logistical standpoint. THe supporting cast members had other obligations, LotR was cannibalizing all of the fantasy artists and props in New Zealand, and so forth. But for me, that just usually means a casual rewatch of Xena ends at the end of season 4, with some sprinklings of 5 and 6 here and there. I just don't really like what the show became in the homestretch.
Popular-One-7051@reddit
I didn't know the characters went off to do other stuff but it make sense. I didn't like a lot of S4 because the whole Jesus wannabe cult stuff drove me nuts. Yes there are just some episodes I S5-6 that I rewatch, but WFC could have been the finale with them riding off to be happy
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
Karl Urban was on LotR and still came back to wrap up Caesar anyway. Good for him, fantastic episode. He's a great guy, I've heard.
f0rever-n1h1l1st@reddit
I don't mind the time skip as a concept. The issue is that they didn't do anything with it. We got a little elderly Joxer and Meg, but we got no Punished Autolycus, we never checked in with Hercules, Virgil was introduced as Joxer's replacement and they did nothing with him.
I like the Norse stuff, but it took up episodes they could've used showing us the fallout from Hercules and Xena on Greece. There're so many interesting things they could've done with a time skip, but all it seemed to accomplish was to age up Eve.
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
yeah honestly just like they didn't really use the time skip for anything worth the payoff, they didn't *really* want to get into a lot of the implications of the world without the Gods IMO. Even burning the loom of fate ... it's set up to be a big deal but the world afterwards looks the same?
Popular-One-7051@reddit
That's where they ride off into the sunset together. It's my finale
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
I hated that Joxer ended up with Meg.
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
Meg always liked him. Would you have preferred Lila, who also liked him?
Popular-One-7051@reddit
The time jumps drove me nuts for multiple reasons, especially what Xena's age would have been she lost 35 years after she locked Grinhilda up and another 25 over the Eve mess. Figuring she was about 20 when that started it makes her about 80. Even allowing for time overlap it would have made her 60. I know it's TV. One ridiculous time jump they could get away with, but two? Drove me nuts.
Yeah the whole Eve thing was annoying, but two where you lost so maybe characters was just wrong.
nancys911@reddit
And they barely showed or mentioned any of their friends from back in the day except Xenan
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
I was really butthurt what they did to the Centaurs, but I understand they were trying to show that magical creatures were leaving the world.
RedwoodFox71@reddit
While I understand some people frustration to age up Eve with the jump skip, but I think more the lack of writing of the story and the writers as it ended.
Her arc as Livia in 2 episodes and didn’t do anything with her as reformed Eve, I just have her be for a few episodes before she totally disappeared. And never been seen, hear or mention again.
So I think it was lacks of writing of the story the end the jump skip was the problem.
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
We know that Eve survives long enough to have a kid, as X has descendants.
DixonDebussy@reddit
Livia was supposed to be Callisto's 2nd chance for both her and Xena (and Gabrielle) to be a happy family and free from their troubled pasts... So naturally, Livia becomes the bitch of Rome and kills a lot of people...
Could we pretend Gabby was hallucinating after drinking Celesta's tears and everything we saw was just what she wrote on scrolls and was reading to Livia and Xena since their plan actually worked out?
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
if I can pretend FIN was before Happy Returns I can do anything!
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
I think we got so many "endings" at the end, that we are intended to choose. I also like When Fates Collide as the ending, where they gallop away in a fate-free world.
Reinaguerrera@reddit
There's no reason for a time jump. Eve could have been sent to live with Xena's mom and Xena and Gabrielle go and visit her.
PaleontologistSad766@reddit
I get alllll the arguments for why they did it but it ultimately just makes me more irritated at Tapert for getting with Lucy while production was still rolling 😭😂 I'm a mom, but babies ruin everything plot wise. Should have waited.
Evilbuffy14@reddit
Exactly!
It really was a gamble that didn't pay off. Eradicating virtually the entire original cast except for our heroines alienated a lot of fans. And, as you mentioned, the replacements were... lacklustre in comparison.
All for Eve/Livia.
Mmm. Not worth it. It changed the entire dynamic of the show. Don't get me wrong, I like Season 6. But only for the subtext that wasn't, not for the supporting cast or Eve/Livia storylines.
We saw Eve/Livia portray some of Callisto's traits in both personalities, but not having visual representation of Callisto directly, makes it hard for viewers to pair the two in their minds. Ergo, lost opportunity.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
like could they not do >!what Angel did with Connor and have Eve be kidnapped into a portal that aged him to be 18?!<do the same with Eve
Evilbuffy14@reddit
Had to check my inbox for your unredacted comment. I mean, in the Xenaverse, anything is possible. A portal may have worked. We saw alternate 'realities' with the Sovereign, so not a completely alien theory.
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
im sorry if it sounds like im coming across as an asshole but I just hate Eve with a firery passion and how much the whole story line makes Xena look like a massive hypocrite in regards to Hope and Gabrielle
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Xena is a hypocrite for sure as regards Eve. And Eve gets let off the hook way too easy like her mother does sometimes too.
Evilbuffy14@reddit
Ha ha! Nope. All opinions are valid opinions. As I mentioned on another post, 'differing opinions is what makes this fanfom and subreddit fun'. I love a good, fun debate about anything Xena related. It gives me time away from the train wreck that's my life at the moment.
Anyway, I think the trade off wasn't even. We were short-changed in the bargain. Livia had some possibilities for good storylines, Eve... well, as we saw, she didn't so much. Losing everyone to gain a few? I'd like a refund. Surely there were other options out there besides being frozen?
itsascreambaby96@reddit (OP)
and when Eve didn't appear in season 6 episodes the writers treat her like she doesn't exist like in the Ring trilogy
Evilbuffy14@reddit
Then she's like, 'I'm off to do my own thing' and we never see her again. Ever.
Shinobi347@reddit
Yeah, even as a kid and watching it in real time, I was like
AssociationTiny5395@reddit
I always felt like they could have spent the entire season in the spirit realm, searching for each other. Xena's growing belly could have been set up as a ticking clock for how long they could stay (like Labor Pains would somehow create a path back to the land of the living). I dunno. The setting just allows writers to not be held down by reality. Could even have Xena played by another actress for some episodes and it would just be "the way her soul chooses to present itself today."
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
I adore Lucy but I did think Hudson did an interesting Xena, could we have brought that back?
EBJ1990@reddit
Yes please!
nancys911@reddit
I would have liked Varia to go with eve and Virgil into whatever place. Kinda like a Xena Gabby joxer 2.0 ish
TheCuri0usWatcher@reddit
I loved the storyline and still do to this day....but looking back I can see and understand people's gripe with it. I honestly feel like the pregnancy and time jump was a way to "roll with the punches" and write Lucy's pregnacy into the show without letting the woman rest & they thought it'd make the show more interesting if they wrote it "well enough" to align or overlap with some details of Christianity & a "clash of the titans/god of war" overlap to make way for their lore behind one god. Though I know Xena existed before "God of war" but I don't really have another theme to compare it to lol, other than clash of the titans maybe (but there's a smaller story in there about how humans waged war with the gods most people gloss over). So God of War is just a closer comparison LOL...I'm rambling...anyways
I also think they used the time jump to push Xena through time so Xena's timeline could align with certain dates in history (which wasn't really necessary because it was fiction anyways)....like the rise and fall of Julius Caesar, Rome after Caesar's demise with Brutus, Augustus, Anthony & Cleopatra, Caligula etc. You can see later it never really went anywhere, so they just kind of did away with trying to make it "kind of" historically accurate, and just started bringing in other loves that didn't matter much to the time line like Norse mythology, chinese & japanese themses etc what was already well established well before then.
So I think they had a plan to make the timeline of Xena a little more cohesive, and kind of abandoned it at some point o churn out some stories lol. You can tell they put a lot of thought or historical planning into some things, and then other episodes they were like "eh whatever, let's have fun." 🤣
Emica12@reddit
Honestly? This could've been fixed with Callisto herself she goes to the future.. Find herself reincarnated as Xena's kid be like, "Oh HELL NO!" Take the baby to the astral realm, mount Olympus, or whatever and raised her. Comes back like a week later and go, "I trained her how to kill you! Good luck Mommy dearest!" Poof away.
Callisto was briefly a goddess and it was under utilized! Such a shame.
TheCalamityBrain@reddit
As sad as I am to say I agree, yeah. I also don't remember Virgil whatsoever.
I remember being angriest about Argo. Xena swore to Argo so many times that she would never leave.
tidewanderess@reddit
I gotta agree. I still like love it but its a hole different series.
Honestly if they had to do it. I would've left Eve's true identity a mystery as the season 6 mystery. Leave some false herrings but ultimately find her. Make twilight of the gods run the season finale and lead into the fates episode.
Maybe rewrite history in that episode and then we have Xena get a second chance a raising eve with Gabrielle.
I hate that Xena didn't get to raise another child.
antealtares@reddit
Unpopular opinion, I guess, but I liked the time jump if even just for the one-liners: "you know what shorty, you kinda look like her. Although Gabrielle wasn't so butch." "if I were you, I'd lay off the starches" "for 25 years I thought Xena was dead, and yet now here she is, not one day older" "you don't know the first thing about me" "but I do, I know your first words, your first steps ..."
Jahon_Dony@reddit
They did it, I belove, so that they didn't have to have a baby on set and in stories every week. I actually don't mind the Twilight of the Gods idea, but it might have served better as a series conclusion.
XThePlaysTheThingX@reddit
As much as I love the show I couldn’t agree more. I think the time jump ultimately hurt more than it helped.