McLaren does make some pretty cool cars but there’s a lot of problems with some of them too. I think right now the Artura and 750S are the best you can buy from them.
Yeah honestly the dream would just be for the new product category to be "we took the GTS, Artura, and 750s, ironed out a lot of the quirky software/electrical issues, gave them a 6-speed manual, and did nothing else"
> Not a good time for British exotics but when has it ever been
Spit coffee was the result of that line, over here.
> In fairness the Artura is good fun & allegedly they've sorted most of the issues so I cant be that cynical
The PHEV functionality is said to work reasonably, but you should still be cynical that they did it because of Eurogovernment mandates.
All of the supercar companies 100% went hybrid due to upcoming govt mandates. Same reason F1 went hybrid, these companies know where the world is going and wanted to get out ahead of it, rather than be dinosaurs on the back foot getting forced to do it.
Lamborghini certainly would've made the Huracan a V10 successor if they could've, but c'est la vie.
> but you should still be cynical that they did it because of Eurogovernment mandates
I'm personally a fan of the hybridization, I think it complements that class of car well, solves the dct jerk, much easier to reverse into a spot, torque fill to compensate for large turbos, adds some refinement around town
lets these cars almost double as personal luxury coupes, firm believer that even w/o a EU mandate we would've seen some hybridization, maybe not as large of a battery but a similar direction
iirc both mclaren & ferrari both fall under the low-volume exemptions anyways, somewhat exempt from the '35 ICE ban, even there are emissions fines they can just roll it into MSRP w/o much worry, relatively price insensitive bunch
because they have different engines in the lineup. You can buy a mclaren 570s and it basically as the same block as the P1, 12c, 650s, 720, 750, Elva, GT.
Its literally mclarens only engine, and they bought the blueprint from nissan 20 years ago
This 🤣
Appreciate they aren't a big company so producing new engines is very costly but I feel like they just rebody the models and tune the same engine.
Lamborghini stretches engines and platforms for far longer than McLaren. The Huracan was the same car for ten years and the Aventador stayed the same for longer than that.
Ferrari reuses the same platform for 10 years or more and has been doing so since the 80's. 308/328, 348/355, 360/430, and 458/488/F8. They just make some tweaks and usually punch out the engine.
Mclaren shares the same engine across the lineup, but makes a new cf chassis for product changes. Look at the tub of the 720/750/765 vs the 12c/650 and it's a world of difference.
Ferrari would make 1000 of them at $3.2m (it'll say 1 of 599 on the door, but who's gonna check).
McLaren will propose 150, then nobody will be interested in another re-bodied 720s so they'll end up making 50 all with a juicy discount to boot.
That's always good for cheap karma, but the CEO is presumably referring to the McLaren/Forseven merger (which includes Gordon Murray Technologies). Expansion into more mainstream segments - yes a CUV/SUV because every market segment under $1 million demands them.
Forseven was initially a hotbed of EV development. I wonder how they'll approach that with Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Aston Martin all pulling away from EVs in the past three years.
For the life of me I don't understand what it is about British brands and not being able to establish prestige to sell this stuff as easily as the Italians do.
Ferrari and Lamborghini have been doing it continuously for over half a century, Mclaren just started regular production of cars about 15 years ago. Those brands have been built brick over the decades and their finances were precarious over a lot of that time. It's only when Fiat bought Ferrari and VAG bought Lamborghini that things settled out in a real way for them.
In McLaren's case they've got enough racing pedigree and the product to sell the cars relatively easily. The reason Mclaren struggles sometimes is because of reliability problems and because they produced too many units relative to demand, which both caused lower residual values than the direct competition.
It takes a long time to shake a reputation for bad reliability, but they can fix the overproduction probably pretty easily now that they've got more capital to work with.
I agree, and in a lot of ways Mclaren is similar to Lotus (ignoring their SUV) at this point: very good drivers cars that are mechanically fairly solid, but with weird software/electrical quirks, a near-unshakable reputation for being unreliable, and limited sales and service networks.
Very much like Lotus, although McLaren seems to have gotten farther than Lotus has. Right now Lotus is at that point where they have a lot of cars on the lot and are gonna have to start discounting them aggressively, which will in turn depress resale value. But Lotus does actually have financial backing from Geely so hopefully they'll get over the hump.
Because it is too expensive and the wrong size. The hottest category/best selling ones are compact to mid-size, a Porsche Macan competitor, not a Cayenne competitor. It should be priced around 40-45k to 50-65k USD/EUR with hot leasing deals.
Base version with four cylinder 265hp, middle version 325hp, top version 400-450hp, hybrid versions, electric versions. Aggressive marketing to women in their 30s to 60s, divorced or married to dentists, and who frequently go to the gym, pilates/yoga classes, wear Lulemon pants.
Nah a 40-60k suv makes no sense for McLaren. The volume they would need to sell to make the economics worthwhile would mean they would need a much, much bigger dealer network. Then that dealer network would end up with like 10x of one model to sell and service vs the core exotics. It would also mean they'd need to ramp up another factory and supply chain to support building all those units.
It's a much better deal for them to seell1500 units globally at ~$200k than trying to chase 30k volume and make $5-10k unit.
A simple solution: Teaming up with JLR, I mean LandRover. Just hook up with Landrover, base the compact Macca SUV on the Evoque, get it built by Landrover alongside the Evoque, perhaps ask if Aston Martin also wants to have a version of it, as sharing is caring.
With regards to dealerships: Also work here with JLR, I mean LandRover dealer.
Hell, why not go the extra mile: Combine JLR, Aston Martin, McLaren and Lotus into one sports/luxury car group with shared platforms, engines, R&D, dealership group etc. Build one factory in the US where mostly LRs are built, but also products for the other brands, in order to work around any trade barriers.
For the US market: Mid-size/full-size truck based on the current Defender, so basically a Defender with a pick-up bed (development project name "Clydesdale", like US work horse breed).
I think the ship has sailed on that. There was a window where another manufacturer could've bought McLaren and brought them under their wing to share platforms, but they went with Forseven instead. They probably have an SUV platform that McLaren can use at this point, but it won't be cheap.
Certainly possible, but I think harder because that market already has a bunch of players, they're pretty much the last to throw their hat in.
What is really hate is if they make it the entry McLaren and push the Artura replacement way up market.
I think a McLaren SUV would be about as financially successful as the DBX has been for Aston. Even with the engine developed, they'd still need to make it compatible with the transmission (so, presumably the ZF 8 speed), move the hybrid motors, *and* develop an entirely new SUV platform. It just seems like way too much cost for what I think will be a fairly small return.
Exactly the example I'm thinking of. If Mclaren sets their production targets much lower than what AM did and gets the product right, maybe it can work for them. But I really don't think they can sell ~3000 SUVs a year, maybe half that.
EV?
Man. They really hate money, don't they?
If they actually wanted to make some, here is the recipe...
SUV with TTV8 and Hybrid V8 options.
Keep the 750S as is.
Make the Artura a NA V8 hybrid.
Make a new car, above the 750S, with NA V8 and NA V10 options, with MT and AT options.
Make a true sucessor to the F1, 3 seats, NA V10, MT, limited edition. Targa and Coupe options.
That should give them a good 10 years of profits before any big face-lifts.
So develop a new Twin-Turbo V8, a new Hybrid V8, a new NA v8 (as it'd need more power than the TT or Hybrid options since its placed above the 750s), and an a new NA v10?
Like most all exotic automakers, the problem that is their customers don’t ask any EV exotic.
> As for a fully electric McLaren, it’s possible—but not an immediate priority. Collins noted the company will build an EV "when our customers want one," adding that the timing isn’t right just yet.
Some of the Mac guys in the know have hinted at some really cool stuff but a V12 is not on my bingo card. Hard to believe they would do one when the W1 is a V8, but I also believed there was no way in hell Lambo would do a turbocharged hybrid V8 that also redlines at 10k rpm.
An suv, a 720 alternative or replacement that’s a bit more up market, ànd ànother special edition of sometbjng they already sell and/or a very acquired taste necessary super/hypercar. I’d bet money that either all of those are part of their plan or at least one is down to the T.
720 replacement is coming but maybe 2 years away. There'll be a very limited 7xx HS before that. Artura replacement will drop next year maybe. Then there'll be an SUV or crossover of some sort. And of course the W1. Maybe there'll be a spider, but there'll almost certainly be a track only version.
People are buying Macs, it's just that the Artura launch was a nightmare and killed a lot of the momentum for that car. 750 is still plenty competitive. GTS is kind of in no man's land but that should be getting a replacement at some point.
In 2 years itll be 12 years since the 720 launched. I don’t think McLaren realizes that they don’t logistically have the means to sell essentially the same exact car for years and years. I know theyd do more stuff if they had more money but mclaren always seems in recent years like theyre racing to catch up. The only mclaren as someone who doesn’t follow the brand closely that seems worth dwelling into is the W1 ànd even that is lackluster for in comparison to its competitors and the P1 just from a visual perspective.
I'd agree that it's not ideal that they stretched the 7xx platform for so long but the alternative was launching another product before it was ready. McLaren can afford to stretch the 7xx, they can't afford another bad product launch.
We have no idea of what the relative performance of the W1 is yet so I don't know how you can say it is lackluster compared to its rivals.
A twin turbo’d 4.0L V8? The 800LT? $450k MSRP. Typical McLaren. Haven’t seen a company ride the coattails of its own past success this much since Mercedes had the original AMG GTS and GTR, Nissan with the R35.
Their cars have a weird identity of not being quite a track car but also being impossible to legally enjoy on the street. It’s overengineered for a very clear niche, but underengineered and a horrible value proposition for any serious car person to use on track or street. McLaren will never be taken seriously with the Porsches of the world if they don’t commit to a new formula. Although we know they’re just there to fund the F1 team.
Who cares. Supercar manufacturers are as exciting as a Hyundai. They sure as fuck share the same wide screen on wheels sparse interiors.
Zero originality or creativity. What a pathetic showing. Just like the new Aston.
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