Europe Could Ban Ford F-150, Silverado and Ram Trucks Over New Rules

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Offline_NL@reddit

Ban them. They're becoming a thorn in the side here in the Netherlands.

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They're not really even need in North America for like 80% of the people who own them as well. The beds are hardly ever used, they aren't being used to tow anything, and they aren't taken off road. I wish we could go back to when most vehicles here were sedans and compacts with the odd small and 1/2 ton truck that's used for what it's intended for.

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IFeedDogsChocolate@reddit

Brother, I implore you to visit a rural area or places that use them as working fleet vehicles. Those trucks get dogged. A blue collar man will take a 2026 truck and beat on it like its an OBS. Same with Hunters.

I think your "80%" is overstated and would be willing to beat you haven't traveled much or wondered to far from the city. It isn't even an easy coast or southern thing. I've seen guys in Washington/Michigan run them in the woods, I've been in some sketchy off-road stuff in Utah/Colorado. Go look at how absolutely clapped trucks look in Appalachia or Florida/Georgia. There are definitely pavement princesses, but most truck owners use them as a utility vehicle.

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Shmokesshweed@reddit

There are definitely pavement princesses, but most truck owners use them as a utility vehicle.

That's just not true. The majority of people don't tow more than once or go off-road more than once a year.

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Confident-Ad-6978@reddit

Why does everyone become a communist with this shit? people can waste their money all they want, it's really none of your business and I can also tell you there are plenty of people who "use" their trucks according to your definition.

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Nitroglycol204@reddit

When it negatively impacts other people's safety and the environment for no good reason, it's everybody's business.

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

The same could be said about almost all enthusiast cars

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AndroidUser37@reddit

Why is it your business to determine if it's a "good reason" or not? Who died and made you the morality arbitrator? Should people also stop flying to save the planet? Stop buying the latest iPhone? Will you advocate for laws to make those decisions for people?

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LordofSpheres@reddit

From that same article, at least 65% of owners use the bed for hauling at least once a year. I know that's the majority of my use case - even at work, the main utility of our trucks is having a separate, outdoor bed for gear, and personally I use it for helping friends move/hauling a slide in camper/hauling lumber, etc plenty frequently to call it a "utility vehicle."

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Nitroglycol204@reddit

I had to haul something a few years ago. You know what I did? I rented a truck. The vast majority of people don't need to own one.

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mini4x@reddit

6 bags of mulch from Home Depit isn't hauling.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

How about 20 50lb bags of rock?

Then doing that on 3 separate occasions?

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mini4x@reddit

Call a landscape provider that will drop it off at your house for about 1/2 the price of buying bags.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

Cool, thanks for making it obvious that you don't want to have any sort of actual discussion and are just arguing in bad faith.

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LordofSpheres@reddit

Sure, whatever. But that's not reflected in the data at all, which is another reason not to use that study to actually make any claim. We don't know whether respondents are understanding hauling to mean a fridge or a gallon of milk. So it's garbage data that doesn't mean anything.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

Not to mention since that same article gets posted repeatedly as some kind of "gotcha", I know for a fact that none of the numbers are mutually exclusive.

Between 65% and 100% of trucks get used at least occasionally for what reddit likes to call "truck stuff".

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John_Sux@reddit

Surely people doing it literally once a year would be better off with a rental for those special cases...

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LordofSpheres@reddit

Well, we don't have any more data on frequency of usage. There's no reason to believe that a substantial proportion of that 65% aren't using it once a week or once a month. At that point, rentals become plenty expensive. They're also a massive pain in the ass.

The pickup is just moving into the role of the SUV of yesteryear - a family mover for people with outdoorsy hobbies or hobbies which demand moving large items, or people who wish to appear that way. It's hard to do that with a rental.

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John_Sux@reddit

Eh, I'm sure there are good cases like that. But I think most of it is for appearances as you mention.

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matarbis@reddit

No kidding, I get helping friends move and stuff(if you want to be the guy with the truck in the group) but I’d much rather drive a regular car and then spend like $50 on a U-Haul if I need it a couple times a year

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

Or go drive by a boat ramp on a warm summer Saturday afternoon

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Penguinho@reddit

It's also the 'hardly ever' that's doing a lot of lifting. I wanted to buy a Maverick last time I bought a car but couldn't find one. I wouldn't have used the bed often, but damn it would have been incredibly useful six or ten times a year. Having to take your own garbage to the dump on a 95 degree day is a much more pleasant task when it doesn't have to be in the fucking car with you.

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John_Sux@reddit

Renting or borrowing seems like the sensible choice for use cases like that

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leeps22@reddit

I have the same issue, the garbage trucks dont go where I live. Its a weekly thing going to the dump, renting a truck every week means it makes sense to own a truck

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John_Sux@reddit

Living in a place without sanitation services is a different thing, though. That's not buying the truck for ego and mall parking lot reasons.

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Penguinho@reddit

I don't think that's the case. Renting a truck means I've got to drive to Home Depot, the only place in town with a pickup. I also have to drive back home with it, load the garbage, go to the dump, and back to Home Depot, unless I want to drive my garbage in the car to the rental place. It's a twenty-minute drive to town and thirty minutes to the dump, so if there's any delay in there I'm exceeding the $18 75-minute rental and paying a $180 daily fee. A task that takes an hour of drive-time now takes almost two, too. Borrowing means I'd have to inconvenience someone I know and adds extra time too.

Or I could have bought a Maverick for roughly the same price as a Crosstrek, which is what I ended up getting. And while it's a perfectly cromulent little appliance and has a bunch of advantages, I regret getting it, and when my wife's Outback dies, she'll inherit the Crosstrek and I'll go back for a small truck (unless I've beaten the Crosstrek to shit by then).

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Senappi@reddit

In Europe it is very common with a trailer hitch on cars and many places similar to home depot offer trailers you can borrow or rent if you bought something bulky

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Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit

...do you think that renting trailers aren't a thing in the US?

Also, that still means OP has to:

get a tow hitch installed for this eventuality
go and rent the trailer
now deal with the pain in the backside that driving a trailer around is (if you think a Maverick is too long, a Crosstrek + a trailer is much longer)

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LordofSpheres@reddit

And, in the US, legal car tow ratings are much lower because the standards by which ratings are obtained is much stricter. So if OP is particularly interested in not being liable in an accident, for instance, towing a trailer behind a car is not likely to provide much utility anyways.

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John_Sux@reddit

Isn't buying the truck for that a bit like wearing ski boots at home all year long, just because you go skiing on one day that year?

You drive and pay the same way to rent a bunch of things, presumably.

I do wonder how there are always massive downsides to other alternatives and no downsides to trucks.

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Penguinho@reddit

Like I said, lots of advantages to the Crosstrek. But to the ski boots analogy, no, not really. A FWD Maverick hybrid would have gotten me better gas mileage than the Crosstrek, and it's not like that's such an awesomely dynamic driving experience that I'd be missing out. The difference in vehicle size doesn't affect me, particularly.

For a lot of people, trucks are going to have downsides, obviously. But if you actually need the bed there's no replacement for it.

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John_Sux@reddit

So it comes down to the free fuel and free space in the US as usual

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Bullet_B8@reddit

You need to go outside dude you're literally just repeating all the reddit anti truck hive mind talking points and pulled your original statistic out of your ass

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John_Sux@reddit

You would say that, since you apparently have a 2500 and feel offended

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Penguinho@reddit

...are you just arguing to be antagonistic? How does free fuel come into it? The Maverick gets better gas mileage than most crossovers or small SUVs and some sedans.

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John_Sux@reddit

Then I'd expect to see more of them in other parts of the world, going forward.

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IFeedDogsChocolate@reddit

If you use the truck for its bed or hauling multiple times a year, why rent? In hunting season it's invaluable. Pre-season it's used to haul corn and stands. Spring/summer, boat time.

I'm not arguing for some type of statistics or general census. There are people like me who use their truck multiple times a year for truck things. When I was young/poor, I made do with a car. Now, I can literally buy and pick up things from marketplace or from the hardware store and not fret over how I'm going to transport it. Load and go on the whim.

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John_Sux@reddit

I simply can't see it as anything other than gratuitous for 90% of people.

And a do-everything vehicle will have to be, you know, a master of none, as well.

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

And almost every one of the people actually using them for real work will eagerly tell you how much they wish [insert brand] still sold [insert smaller model killed off circa 2012].

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Confident-Ad-6978@reddit

Most of them just drive it and don't care. They just like trucks and live in a place where you don't need to downsize

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Confident-Ad-6978@reddit

It's because he thinks his urban bubble is the world

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Powerful-String-9143@reddit

This is the most objectively untrue thing I've ever seen. Don't include fleet vehicles and then try to back up your argument with one fact.

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IFeedDogsChocolate@reddit

Prove it is objectively untrue.

Just because you're oblivious to people using trucks as their intended doesn't make your perspective fact. I brought up fleet vehicles primarily due to my experience in construction. I have first hand experience in several states of me and buddies taking trucks from 70's to '24's hunting, mudding, camping, towing, etc.

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Powerful-String-9143@reddit

No facts provided.

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purz@reddit

Doesn’t help that hardly any wagons exist and SUVs have been mostly neutered into family vehicles. I tried switching to a large SUV and I’m likely going to go back to a truck within the next year. My large SUV gets similar gas mileage and it’s not as convenient for my use case which is mostly outdoor activities.

Way easier to load kayaks, bikes, fishing gear, hunting gear etc into a truck.

It also doesn’t help that the brands have mostly pigeon hold you into 1/2 tons too. The Tacoma was the only some what small and useful truck for a long period of time. Most of the new small trucks have smaller beds when 5.5ft beds are already kind of small for a lot of uses. Last time I looked they mostly got similar MPG too.

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Parcours97@reddit

No its not. Ford and several insurance companies do surveys on this topic. From 2011 to 2021 about 7% of Ford F150 owner used their truck for towing regularly.

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NotoriousCFR@reddit

This is reddit, most people here are city dwelling dorks who have never gone anywhere or done anything more rugged than a trip to Whole Foods

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John_Sux@reddit

A lot of people carrying mulch and fully assembled exercise equipment around. But somehow that never fits in a van. Or maybe the ego doesn't...

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Mash709@reddit

I live in a city of less than 200k, and spend half the year in a town of less than 20k people. I agree with you that in rural areas trucks are 100% valid and a necessity for many. Also remember, the vast majority of any country's population are in cities where I would guess 80-90% of all trucks and SUVs are located. I may be overestimating with my initial 80%, but not by much, and my argument is still valid imo.

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Real_Establishment56@reddit

Bring back the 90’s size trucks and I won’t have a problem with them. I’m from The Netherlands and I absolutely hate these current monstrosities. Guy across the street had a RAM1500 and its hood was about the same height as the roof of the VW Golf it was parked behind.

In a second hand lot just outside of town there’s an S10 or something I believe? It’s a pickup that’s not that much bigger than a regular station wagon from BMW or Volvo. I don’t have any problems with that. And they can probably do the majority of what people think they need these road locomotives for.

Sure, if you need to tow a trailer with your car for grounds work or something, be my guest. But you could also use an actual commercial truck for that, and these aren’t parked in a normal neighborhood either so why do that with your Monster Truck?

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Mash709@reddit

100% agree. Those 90's trucks were peak!

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NotoriousCFR@reddit

The number of "which year/trim/engine/cab should I buy?" posts in the F150 sub where the OP states that they "don't plan to use the bed" is mind-boggling. Isn't the bed the literal entire point of a truck? I'm not even saying all these people should downsize to Priuses, but like, if you're not doing truck stuff why wouldn't you get an Expedition instead?

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opeth10657@reddit

I spent months looking for a truck because I wanted a RCLB with power windows and under 150k miles

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Confident-Ad-6978@reddit

Even if they live in rural bumfuck nowhere?

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Offline_NL@reddit

Yes.

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Tricky-Ad7897@reddit

And there's already plenty of choice for towing and hauling vehicles. There's no reason to own an American pickup truck in Europe other than to virtue signal, because European style vans and commercial trucks do everything a pickup can do while still fitting in the streets and complying with safety regulations.

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FluidPart4918@reddit

Says the guy in a Renault Clio 😂

Actually, I’ve got to agree. Spent some time in NL and love the country. Not many places to drive an F-150 unless it’s the countryside.

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Kornaros@reddit

My mother's Clio (the one in my flair) is more truck than the princesses they call trucks in USA.

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

Imagine caring about how people view your car

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

Imagine caring about how people view your mom's car, and then flexing about it

FTFY

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ferkaderka@reddit

Lol. Lmao even. Have fun with your rage bait bud.

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Kornaros@reddit

5ΜΤ Turbodiesel. Proper truck I tell ya!

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Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit

lol why is it always people who don't have flairs throwing shade at other people's cars 🤔

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RacerM53@reddit

people can't see the kids they're running over?

Do people in the Netherlands prefer to see them first?

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Capitan_Scythe@reddit

How can you tally the points if you don't know what you hit in the first place. Everyone knows the smaller targets are worth more

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Pixelplanet5@reddit

yes, its the eye contact that makes it satisfying.

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cabs84@reddit

whoosh

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SavageryRox@reddit

Whoosh for yourself lmao.

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noodlecrap@reddit

Ok, ban them and force manufacturers to make 4WD body on frame vehicles again. like they did 20-30 years ago. Pajero, Patrol, Land cruiser, Jimny, Grand Vitara, Daihatsu whatever, Tata whatever, Pathfinder. now nothing

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trackdaybruh@reddit

Isn’t the average gas price in Netherland over $10 per gallon?

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Pixelplanet5@reddit

there are stupid people everywhere.

we had a guy with a RAM 1500 just down the street, he rented two parking spaces at 80€/ month each and had the plants next to his parking spots removed because the truck didnt fit in the parking spot otherwise.
It was still too long and partially blocked the pedestrian path so he was fined multiple times for that until he finally sold that piece of shit after a year or so.

And of course that truck has never even seen a gravel road during its lifetime and the truck bed was sparkling clean and got polished at least once a month because all of this was just to show off and not to get work done.

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Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit

Was it a width problem or something? Because a RAM is big but it's not like, 8 metres long

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Pixelplanet5@reddit

it was both width and length, a standard parking spot is 230cm wide and 500cm long.

the dodge Ram 1500 is 208cm wide + mirrors and 592cm long + the tow hook he had installed.

So he parked the nose of the car where the plants would have been and was still blocking the pedestrian path by about half a meter + his tow hook.

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Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit

Okay that makes more sense. If he had two alongside each other and parked it on a 45 degree angle it would be easier but that requires a brain

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Pixelplanet5@reddit

that wouldnt have worked either as every parking spot had a tree almost centered infront of it so he had the plants between the trees removed and basically parked between the trees on two parking spots as he couldnt get the building management to remove the trees there entirely.

And also even the diagonal of two spots would still be too short for this truck.

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spongebob_meth@reddit

People in Europe don't drive 20,000 miles per year like Americans.

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Blyatskinator@reddit

I see a RAM/F150 almost every day on the roads here in Sweden unfortunately…..

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Shmokesshweed@reddit

People still buy full size trucks over there?

Lots of people love to show off.

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WTFAnimations@reddit

For a country famous for its cycling infrastructure and being the Mecca of armchair urbanists, people over there sure love big cars.

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Moth92@reddit

people over there sure love big cars.

I'd say, if it wasn't about the cost or space, most people would drive bigger cars if given the choice. Outside of enthusiasts, but we don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

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gdnws@reddit

I wouldn't call 7000 in a market that moved almost 13 million cars in 2024 lots. That puts them in a similar ballpark to things like Mercedes s class sales numbers.

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Real_Establishment56@reddit

Enough smol penises around to sell trucks to

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Jlx_27@reddit

People buy them to run them as a commercial vehicle. Cheap to own and run that way, the tax benefit (meaning paying no BPM) when buying it as a business owner has been revoked for all vehicles registered after dec 31st 2024 though.

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MRDR1NL@reddit

Most American pick ups i see in the Netherlands are just people getting groceries and commuting. They buy it for the ecstatic, not for commercial use.

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TheBlackestCrow@reddit

They buy it as a company asset and then drive it privately though. But yes most of them aren't used commercially.

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CroissantEtrange@reddit

aesthetics, not ecstatic 👍

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Kornaros@reddit

They convert them to run on actual gas

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

I’m big on sustainability and safety, but never has it come across trucks as some big pedestrian killers. It seems like a “feel good law”.

Whenever I think about pedestrian safety, I think of ALL vehicles, and those you can solve by better road design (traffic calming, etc), law enforcement, and driver education.

“Yea but the probably of serious injuries increases with big trucks”. Okay, I don’t care, at some point there’s a limit

Glad I don’t live in Europe.

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Stu__Pidasso@reddit

Those full size trucks can't fit in parking spaces out in Netherlands. I hated driving a full size wagon out there, I couldn't imagine a full size truck

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Jlx_27@reddit

Wagons are fine here though.

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

Ban the wagons too. There is no need for such large vehicles when subcompacts get the job done

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Stu__Pidasso@reddit

I'm aware, but I just hated dealing with the narrow spots in smaller towns. Just saying dealing with those spots with trucks designed for Costco sized spots wouldn't be ideal

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One-Outside@reddit

🇺🇸

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GlobalistCabal@reddit

🇺🇸🦅

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

🇪🇺

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TheAntiAirGuy@reddit

They are already exceedingly rare here, only way to get one is via import and also a hefty increase in price

It's not like they're an issue really and if they stay like this, where they're not officially sold they won't even become an issue.

What a non-issue, incredible

Geez, just let those 7 people who really really want a Ram or F150 have one

Didn't see people cheer for the GR86/BRZ because it didn't meet safety regulations but suddenly it's a US Pickup which you migh come across maybe omce a month and people are cheering

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Fearless_Neat_6654@reddit

The GR86/BRZ posed a safety risk to their driver; Ram and F-150s pose a safety risk pedestrians

One is less acceptable for society

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

In Italy, you can’t drive GR86 and BRZs as a young driver because of the threat to society - they don’t meet the power to weight restrictions.

You can easily expand that to all drivers with that logic. Why do you a car with that performance?

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AndroidUser37@reddit

Yeah, and I think that's absolutely ridiculous. Are you really fine with that kind of nannying?

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noodlecrap@reddit

oh come on, up until a couple years ago you couldn’t drive my dad’s diesel minivan because it was a “threat to society” lmao

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noodlecrap@reddit

what safety risk? who buys a sports cars worried about safety?

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Full size truck is as rare as local exotic car in Europe. I don’t think it would increase more pedestrian fatality number

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107percent@reddit

Dodge RAMs drive by my place 5-10 times a day. For context, this year I've had 2 Aston Martins, 1 McLaren and 0 Ferraris/Lamborghinis (not counting Uruses (Uri?)) come by. I also live on an access road to a neighbourhood filled with >1 million euro terraced houses, and I'm too poor to even know what all the detached houses are worth.

Trucks are definitely becoming increasingly common in the Netherlands.

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

That’s the most inane statement ever. If you introduce a thing that is more dangerous, there is more danger.

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

Get rid of your Highlander and Golf dude.

YOU are a threat to society, YOU are what’s wrong with society with your ridiculously large SUV and your ridiculously fast hatchback.

/s

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orangebikini@reddit

It's not just safety concerns with the big pick-up trucks, but environmental concerns too.

Even if it was just safety though, it shouldn't be too difficult to see what differentiates the trucks from a GR86/BRZ for example.

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TheAntiAirGuy@reddit

Obviously I understand that, I too love to hate on the Americans love for their 6.2l V8 6 meter long Samsung Smart Fridge with wheels for their groceries.

Yet I hate the idea of an outright ban. I hope it's not hard to understand that I am a fan of taking some liberty away from us or other. Just because a Chevrolet Silverado isn't my dream car doesn't mean I'd like to ruin this dream for someone else.

Should they perhaps be regulated? Absolutely, possibly limit the number of how many can be registered per year, class them as a different car or worst case, at least make them only available with an exemption, because in some cases these cars can actually be good tools too, if a farmer, Iceland tour guide, horse breeder or whatever could make good use of one, allow them to purchase one, tax the living hell out of that engine, I don't care, it's not like they're not already doing that for anything bigger than a 2.0l with 150hp.

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noodlecrap@reddit

lol, why tax something else? they already make 5km/L. they spend enough money on gasoline tax

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Parcours97@reddit

Geez, just let those 7 people who really really want a Ram or F150 have one

Why? They are a lot more dangerous over here with the amount of pedestrians we have.

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Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit

where Nissan (400)Z!

You can get one if you really want to, I saw one in Eastern Europe literally a week ago.

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CroissantEtrange@reddit

Geez, just let those 7 people who really really want a Ram or F150 have one

Even if it negatively impacts the quality of life of everyone around them?

Those trucks don't fit European cities. Our streets are narrower, so are our parking places. Our cities are filled with pedestrians and cyclists. Those trucks have huge blindspots, they're fine for highways, not small historic centers.

There has been a +50% rise in pedestrian deaths in the US during the last decade. Let's not import that. There are so many better cars to choose from already.

And F-150 owners use loopholes to import them & avoid paying taxes, there's really no benefit for the community around them.

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MRDR1NL@reddit

US trucks are getting more popular here in the Netherlands. Having to import it isn't stopping anyone. There is a price increase, but all cars here are more expensive anyway. You can get a RAM 1500 here for €50k. There are multiple companies that import them. They have online configurators and you can take test drives. The truck comes in European spec. For the customer it is 100% the same as buying any other car, until they try to park it.

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Darth_Firebolt@reddit

They are exceedingly rare.... For now. Banning them before they become a nuisance is a smart move.

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

Yep, hopefully sport bikes are next. These bikes drive dangerously on the roads and cause accidents.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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leebe_friik@reddit

Historical exceptions aside, every European street is designed for 2.55m wide buses and haulers and your typical Ram truck doesn't even come close.

If child safety were actually something they worried about, then they would require a front camera or yet another beeping thingamajig instead of banning them outright.

A truck is not the ideal city vehicle, but there are also legitimate use cases for one, just like in US just like in Europe.

This is all about politics and jealousy.

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Nitroglycol204@reddit

There are trucks sold in Europe that do the job. These big American ones are unnecessarily large and dangerous, not to mention their fuel consumption.

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Wolfo93@reddit

Ah yes I don't want those trucks in EU therefore I must be jealous! Logic! XD

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Simon676@reddit

They are still much more dangerous due to their high hood height, and poor visibility at high speeds.

A camera does not help you above parking lot speeds.

There are zero legitimate uses for an F150 in Europe, as a VW Transporter or Crafter pickup is more capable in practically every single metric while not being a menace to everyone else on the roads.

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Due_Title_6982@reddit

Not every european street is is fit for buses, the main streets are, but when you get to inner ones or the countryside then it's not guaranteed, there were plenty of times where i had to get on the sidewalk to let a bus pass

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xolov@reddit

It's so embarrassing when Europeans constantly complain about foreigners generalising, then they turn around and do the same thing themselves.

Not all roads in the 27 member states in the EU are roman cobble stone roads and narrow alleys.

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MRDR1NL@reddit

There are only a few big trucks in my city, but they sure are a nuisance. And that's what it's about, not jealousy. Space is scarce in European cities. Going out of your way to take as much space as possible is a dick move. Any use case can easily be fulfilled with smaller trucks or vans. A nose the size of a compact car has no utility other than making the driver feel like a big guy.

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Beni_Stingray@reddit

Some vehicles can hardly even be driven, in my country the max weight of vehicles you can drive with a normal drivers license is 3500Kg.

The shop i've worked at imported lots of US vehicles and some of the bigger trucks we imported had to be downgraded and systems like hydraulik brakes be taken out to get below that 3500Kg limit because you cant sell trucks that require an actual semitruck license just to drive a "normal" big size truck.

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leebe_friik@reddit

My country does car tax according to max weight. Which is completely stupid and unfair, because a basic VW Transporter for someone's large family is now taxed like a Lamborghini.

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Simon676@reddit

I think that's very reasonable, given that road damage increases exponentially with weight.

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Nitroglycol204@reddit

As does the chance of killing or injuring someone else in a collision.

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Beni_Stingray@reddit

Its even more stupid here in switzerland, we have 26 cantons and every canton has its own rule, some tax according to weight, some according to power, some according to displacement so depending on where you live you can be taxed double what you would pay in another canton lol

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Shmokesshweed@reddit

3500kg is well above any full size truck.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

Every F-150 except the Powerboost Hybrid, the heavy duty payload package, the Raptor R, and the Lightning is below 3500kg GVWR.

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leeps22@reddit

My f150s gvwr is over that

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Darth_Firebolt@reddit

F350 gets you there. Either single or dual rear wheels with the 6.7 diesel and 4x4. Gross weight is 14,000 pounds / 6350kg.

Mega Cab RAM 2500 diesel 4x4 also gets you over 3500kg curb weight. That's a single wheel rear axle.

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Beni_Stingray@reddit

The car we had to downgrade was a Hummer H1, i think the weight was around 3600Kg as we got it from the US, just above the weight limit so removing the hydraulik brakes and some other stuff, we got it down to like 3200Kg which was just enough to get it certified here, leaves 80Kg per person times two so there was around 140Kg left for luggage.

But even then it was stupid, that thing could haul another 1000Kg easily but the owner wasnt allowed to use it with its standard drivers license.

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Shmokesshweed@reddit

Now those would really stand out lol.

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ryzenguy111@reddit

It’s gross weight, so curb weight + payload capacity

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Shmokesshweed@reddit

Ah, gotcha.

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Skullllz@reddit

If we can get the EU to mandate push buttons instead of this touch screen crap

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Sindica69@reddit

Most of the people who buy a truck (even here in America) have literally zero real-world applications to justify having one. Not that there’s anything wrong with buying something you enjoy, but it gets to a point where the size is a problem. Ram drivers are also notoriously ass.

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Previous_Composer934@reddit

Most of the people who buy a ~~truck~~ sports car (even here in America) have literally zero real-world applications to justify having one. Not that there’s anything wrong with buying something you enjoy, but it gets to a point where the ~~size~~ speed is a problem. Especially in Europe where roads are nowhere near as big to suit them. ~~Ram~~ Mustang drivers are also notoriously ass.

fixed it for you

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Sindica69@reddit

I mean sure, I’m not gonna deny that a sports car isn’t an indulgent vehicle, I’d be a hypocrite for saying so. But most sports cars are far less frequent here than your average pickup. Most people who buy sports cars are also gonna use them for their intended purpose to a degree. The difference here between asshole sportscars and asshole pickups is one is small and one is much larger and harder to maneuver around on the road, and chances are you’ll run into the latter much more often. And don’t tell me Ram drivers don’t suck lmao you know that’s a lie.

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

Sports cars should be banned too, save those for the track.

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Sindica69@reddit

Yeah it’s way too funny to me that people say sports cars are worse for the road than pickups are. Most pickups are treated poorly, use up tons of gas and produce tons of emissions, driven by people who don’t really care about their vehicles and people who couldn’t finance anything else other than a Nissan Altima. Sports cars are expensive and generally cared about far more, and there’s far less of them around than pickups.

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

Yea but we are talking about the inherent vehicle, not the actual reality

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Sindica69@reddit

I’m also not gonna say I have a solution to it, because I don’t. I’m a random person on reddit rambling about something I dislike.

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CaptainGo@reddit

Sounds like that's a wealth/class problem rather than a vehicle one.

People who own horses typically live longer than those that don't, but that's because people who own horses can afford better healthcare

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Sindica69@reddit

That’s certainly a factor, but my point is more that you are much more likely to survive getting hit by a sports car if someone is being an asshole than a full-size pickup truck, which has a much higher likelihood of being in such a condition that lessens control and further enables an accident.

But if I’m going to nitpick about the monetary factor, I could start going on about how America’s infrastructure is heinous for forcing most people to require a vehicle to even survive. You should, in most cases, be able to walk to essential points and services.

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SDEexorect@reddit

when my colorado dies, i fully plan to buy a silverado with a crew cab. but, unlike a lot of other truck owners, I wanna buy a camper that i can take around the US and see the national parks. my current truck can barely tow a small camper with its limited 4500 pound tow capability. also every truck owner i know also thinks ram owners are assholes.

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Sindica69@reddit

See that’s a great use for a pickup truck, I could absolutely get down with that. Road trips to national parks do sound like fun, I hope you get to enjoy it!

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elroddo74@reddit

I have one because I got a good deal on a low milage one I bought from my dad. In 7 years I've needed a truck fewer than 10 times, now I'm selling it back to my dad. Between the crap milage, the pain in the ass of parking it I would have been just fine without it. Cheaper to rent one when I needed it.

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Sindica69@reddit

I mean in your case it’s very understandable to have taken that deal, but yeah they’re not nearly as convenient as most other vehicles are in most aspects. It’s the same problem I have with the gigantic SUVs. I floated the idea of getting an Escalade, and granted the interior was very nice and comfortable but holy mother of god I hated everything else about it.

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elroddo74@reddit

They ride really nice, are comfortable and I see the allure. But in the end a nice comfortable car provides the same things. The infatuation with huge vehicles in this country is nuts. My dad's a farmer who hunts, he needs a truck. I'm in an office job and need a 4 wheel drive 6 months of the year.

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sandy017@reddit

they hardly import full size trucks to Europe as it is, not really going to change much.

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orangebikini@reddit

I don't think those American manufacturers are worried about potentially losing a few thousand sales per year. What they're worried about is being completely closed out from a market of 450 million people. It's unlikely, but there is a possibility that full-size pick-up trucks would become popular in the EU, their sales numbers, while still marginal, have been rising after all.

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Nass44@reddit

Eh, most of these trucks are sold to US-Fans/Rednecks/Carpenters who have to compensate and don’t want to drive a Van or Small pickup. The market really isn’t that big.

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Moth92@reddit

What's up with you worrying about another man's junk?

Frankly, at this point I feel like it's projection.

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Nass44@reddit

You can make the argument that a certain percentage of big truck owners actually use the trucks for their intended purpose and make use of its size.

In most European countries these trucks are utterly useless and because you can’t park them anywhere remotely urban, you pay insanely high taxes, insurance and repair costs, the list goes on.

Including the cringe stickers that imply anyone who doesn’t drive a oversized fridge with a V8 isn’t „manly“, I’d say compensating is the only logical reason to own one of these in Europe.

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

Im sorry that the standard of living in Europe is so poor that people are used to driving <1.5 litre economy cars and can’t fathom anything better than that.

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Kirchhoff-MiG@reddit

Most Murican trucks feels like they‘re gonna explode if you exceed 160 km/h. Whereas that’s a comfortable cruising speed in a Sprinter and you can even get them to 200 km/h.

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Nass44@reddit

Pretty ironic coming from someone driving a German car.

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JournalistExpress292@reddit

Yea and it isn’t the standard. Y’all are killing your own industry

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Agile-Peace4705@reddit

This is the correct take. Europoors and their Australian counterparts continually cry on the internet about the purchasing habits of North Americans. It's baffling really.

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Nass44@reddit

I mean I was talking about Europe the whole time, it seems that Americans are just upset that no one cares about their cars in the rest of the world.

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Agile-Peace4705@reddit

I can assure you that we waste zero thought on how the rest of the world feels about our cars. As a whole, we really don't think about you at all.

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footpole@reddit

But you’re here complaining about how people feel about your cars.

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Agile-Peace4705@reddit

citation needed

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Intel_Oil@reddit

I just know that you're German from the negativity in your tone.

Why does the Carpenter "have to compensate" because he drives a bigger Truck?

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Parcours97@reddit

I just know that you're American from the Oil in your name /s

I guess Nass44 thinks that vans are a lot more practical for carpenters than trucks.

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leeps22@reddit

I hated working out of a van, much happier in a service body truck

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Wolfo93@reddit

Well those F150 make no sense here. parking space is too small and they have not enough room for stuff compared to something like Rifter or Kangoo. They really make no sense here. Only time I see big american pickup is some poser guy who wants to be 'macho' and 'american' driving around larping

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leeps22@reddit

Not enough room? You've never seen a service body truck.

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Kirchhoff-MiG@reddit

You‘ve never seen a 6 meter Sprinter with the high roof option. The rear area is I think 3.2 meters long, 2 meters wide and 2 meters high. Now tell me, which pickups comes close?

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leeps22@reddit

Of course I have. The weirdo church people have one for their field trips or whatever it is they do.

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Wolfo93@reddit

never in Poland

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

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Pixelplanet5@reddit

nothing stopping them from making a compliant vehicle if they really cared about the market.

the problem is there arent any exceptions for trucks in Europe like they are in the US so they would have to comply with the regulations they like to avoid.

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3141592652@reddit

Is enforcing truck mods a bigger thing in Europe? Because so many cops looking the other way here in the US and it's crazy.

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Wolfo93@reddit

Your car needs to pass an inspection every year. Modified cars in illegal way are not popular here at all

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Pixelplanet5@reddit

trucks in generally are virtually none existent and in most European countries modifications to any vehicle are pretty tightly regulated so none of that would be happening over here.

Just a standard truck by itself is already enough of a hassle for the rest of the world though.

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Parcours97@reddit

Just make cars we want to buy lol. The Ford Fiesta and Focus were some of the most successful cars here in the EU.

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TheDistantEnd@reddit

The margins on full-size pick-ups are very good, compared to compact and subcompact harchbacks.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

I doubt that would happen. It is definitely not fun and comfortable to driver a full-size truck in European tiny streets and roads.

Besides, America full-size truck is required another driver license there.

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f1fanguy@reddit

Iceland loves these cars….but we dont even reach half a million people

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motivatedtuna@reddit

i love iceland but man is it expensive.

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falcon0159@reddit

It's funny, I went there 2 years ago for the first time. Everyone was telling me how expensive it would be. There wasn't a single thing outside of gas that was more expensive than the tri state area in the US.

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motivatedtuna@reddit

I also went there around 2 years ago, and I paid 50$ for a dominos pizza and fizzy water lol

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SDEexorect@reddit

honestly, it makes a lot of sense for them to be popular in countries like iceland. rugged ever changing terrain, weather that can be formidable, and a less population dense area that doesnt need to keep it small. i've been to big cities in Europe like London, Rome, and Athens. couldnt imagine having to daily a big ass truck around those streets but man could I see the utility in a place like Iceland.

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isaac99999999@reddit

Except trucks are notoriously terrible in adverse conditions. No traction over the rear wheels, it why every time there's a big snow there's a ton of trucks off the road

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opeth10657@reddit

No traction over the rear wheels, it why every time there's a big snow there's a ton of trucks off the road

This is more of idiots not knowing how to drive and being way overconfident. I'll take my truck with some weight in the back over my car in any snow over about 4" or so. During our last big snow storm, there was zero chance I would have made it to work in my car.

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HiTork@reddit (OP)

Related, but I think a problem these days is that for modern cars (as in not SUVs, trucks or vans) are too low slung, even non-performance model. I have a 2017 Ford Focus SE (not an ST or RS) that will scrape the front bumper sometimes pulling into a parking lot with a relatively shallow approach. This is something I expect out of a modified car, not a stock econobox.

I think this is what is pushing people to crossovers especially in places like Canada, the ground clearance on them is just acceptable to deal with winters without getting stuck so easily.

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falcon0159@reddit

Yup, I found that this is especially worse in FWD cars with longer front overhang.

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opeth10657@reddit

A lot of that is for better MPGs

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Moth92@reddit

While also making more money for the OEMs for replacement bumper covers and other shit people damage underneath.

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noodlecrap@reddit

yeah but it’s trucks or nothing. they stopped making 4WD vehicles in europe 20 years ago. today if you wanna go off-road you have to get a truck.

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f1fanguy@reddit

We improve them :)

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SDEexorect@reddit

added weight makes a hell of a difference.

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mini4x@reddit

Yes it makes them harder to steer and stop.

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_Connor@reddit

Yeah I'd much rather be in the civic that I always saw getting stuck trying to get up the short incline into my school parking lot every time it snowed.

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John_Sux@reddit

Of course, you'd have to buy something more utilitarian, not one of the specs made to be a fashion accessory in the USDM

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Capitan_Scythe@reddit

full size trucks

You mean over sized trucks. Too big for the parking spaces, too wide for some of the narrow country roads where the pickup would have the greatest appeal, and as for that front end..

Toyota got it right with their recent Hilux refresh. Slightly larger engine with better towing power, still within the same size body, with a few QOL improvements.

Or the Ineos Grenadier Quartermaster. Capable offloader with an open back tray.

Or the farm favourite, the beat up pile of shit that is somehow still going and is more like a wheelbarrow than a car

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Untenable_Debauchery@reddit

There are a lot of them in the Netherlands. “Business vehicles”. They look ridiculous. Especially when parked. Almost always out of boundaries.

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747WakeTurbulance@reddit

I just got back from a month in Germany, Belgium and Amsterdam. I saw hundreds of large American trucks on the roads there.

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Senappi@reddit

Then you probably saw all of them 😉

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Small_Ad_4808@reddit

Yup true

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bstyledevi@reddit

Meanwhile, in America...

"Rough Country introduces the new 37 inch lift kit for your Ford F-series trucks! Made completely out of pieces of metal randomly welded together with no regard for safety, vehicle longevity, or drivability, the new Upclimber lift kit will surely piss off everyone in your HOA!"

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Storm_Chaser06@reddit

If the US can ban tiny trucks from Japan and Europe, Europe can ban those oversized pavement princesses in retaliation.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Some states actual allow Kei cars.

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mini4x@reddit

Only 25+ year old ones

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CaptainGo@reddit

Isn't that all imports though and not specific to kei vehicles

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mini4x@reddit

Yes.

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BabyEatingFox@reddit

Because of the federal import ban. That’s a separate issue entirely.

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SDEexorect@reddit

litterally are seeing more and more pop up around where i live. one fucker had his modded with an exhaust do loud, i couldnt even hear my camaro with the windows up.

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TenderfootGungi@reddit

If we had real pedestrian safety laws here in the US, they would be banned here too. And our roads are built for them, Europe's are not .

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CeeBus@reddit

Or emissions laws that actually made sense.

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LordofSpheres@reddit

Pickup trucks are subject to the same tailpipe emissions standards as all other passenger vehicles in the US.

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mini4x@reddit

No they are not. CAFE ratings have loop holes for both size and weight, which why new truck are as large as laws will allow

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

You have to be over 8500lbs GVWR (curb weight + payload) to be exempt from CAFE. Only 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are in that category.

The only relaxation you get from being over 6000lbs GVWR that most half tons meet is businesses being able to deduct depreciation on their taxes as a business expense.

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LordofSpheres@reddit

CAFE regs are fuel economy regulations, which have an impact on emissions but are not how the feds directly regulate per-vehicle emissions. Pickups meet the same standards as passenger cars for emissions composition and quantity.

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CeeBus@reddit

Or large enough to get the loop hole. A reverse incentive.

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mini4x@reddit

Also part of the reason Ford stopped selling cars, so their CAFE numbers are easier to meet.

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Skensis@reddit

I mean, as long as they are gas trucks, they're going to have better emissions than half the crappy diesels you see driving around Europe.

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clipples18@reddit

Europe already has the Ape. Perfection has been achieved

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grenshaw@reddit

Fuel economy, road size and parking space size would rule out most US pick ups in most EU countries, with the exception for the odd enthusiast or someone with a specialist need, a tradie or tow truck etc. Also Ireland, like the UK, are right hand drive cars so that's a whole country that can be excluded too, even though they're a very small car market.

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Shomegrown@reddit

Sure, how 'bout getting rid of the Chicken Tax first.

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xdr01@reddit

Heaps of shit need to be banned in Australia too. Rolling road blocks carrying nothing but insecurity.

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Weekly-Government350@reddit

Ranger Danger is a thing!

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I_like_cake_7@reddit

Aussies love Rangers. That truck is singlehandedly keeping Ford alive in Australia right now.

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DZello@reddit

Laughable: there are more American pickups sold in my city than in all of Europe.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

What is your city ?

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DZello@reddit

Montreal

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mini4x@reddit

Montreal isn't in Europe.

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DZello@reddit

For the moment but it could change.😂

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Bullet_B8@reddit

🤯

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costafilh0@reddit

Europe is striving to become communist after fighting so hard against it.

Maybe the problem wasn't communism itself, but who was in power?

It used to be a dream land to live in. Now you want to visit, but never live there.

Too expensive, too many taxes, too much bureaucracy, too much BS, not enough freedom.

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Anonasty@reddit

You don't know what communism means.

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PrpleMnkyDshwsher@reddit

Or "freedom"

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Hopeful_Morning_469@reddit

I didn’t think there was a street in Europe that could accommodate a ram, f150 or Silverado. I live in the middle of nowhere in Canada and those things are a monstrosity, imagine any European city with full size American truck driving down it, boggles the mind.

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eirexe@reddit

This article has led me to discover transport & environment, apparently they are the lobby group that succesfully got the EU to perform it's aborted ban on ICE cars and lobbies for the current schemes attempting to ban old cars.

Apparently they are now pushing for fully low emissions zones, that's craaaazy.

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HeavyDutyForks@reddit

The 7k or so trucks the EU imports every year is surely going to break the backs of US auto manufacturers

I'm sure those Europeans are just as devastated seeing what they'll be missing out on going forward

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xolov@reddit

They are just an easy target to feel good about themselves. If they really cared about safety and environment they'd do something about the huge SUVs that actually sell in serious numbers in Europe, but they won't because EU has heavy economic ties to German car industry.

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Fearless_Neat_6654@reddit

I swear there are no other car companies that complain and whine as much as GM and Ford.

If they want people aside from American and American-lite boomers to buy them, then maybe they should just build compelling cars

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RiftHunter4@reddit

The absurd part is that both brands used to dominate both the European and US car markets. Or at least they had a very VERY strong presence in Europe.

I still don't know how managed to lose so much marketshare.

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Electronic_Trade_721@reddit

The Ford and GM cars that were successful in Europe were designed and built in Europe. They weren't American cars in any real sense. Actual American cars have never been popular in Europe.

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xolov@reddit

Chrysler sold literally a million Voyagers in Europe.

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RiftHunter4@reddit

But that's what I don't get. The focus was a hit in the states. So much so that they brought the Fiesta over too.

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GlobalistCabal@reddit

GM is the third largest automaker in the world behind number one, Toyota, and number two VAG.

It’s true they don’t sell much in Europe but they are still globally massive.

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Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit

lol GM is far smaller than Hyundai globally

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mini4x@reddit

Its #6. VAG, Toyota, Stellantis, MB, Ford, GM.

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Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit

If you didn't know that Kia was a part of Hyundai

I don't know what to say

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mini4x@reddit

This was based on revenue which I'd far better indicator of success than production figures.

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Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit

This is still incorrect

If you've got a link for revenue, I'd love to see otherwise I'll assume you're just making up a random list

Besides, size of automakers is determined by units sold.

Here is 2025 sales figures

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mini4x@reddit

Sorry the list was for 2024, but you can find it on the internet.

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Fearless_Neat_6654@reddit

I still don't know how managed to lose so much marketshare.

That's an easy one. GM decided that competing in Europe is too intimidating and Ford decided that they'd stop producing what their customers wanted and instead would try dictating to their customers what they should buy

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RiftHunter4@reddit

I never understood Ford's tactic in moving away from sedans and compact cars. They claim that they didn't make money with them but at the same time, that's the only thing they sold to the bottom US market and most of what sold in Europe.

I seriously doubt if Kia/Hyundai would be as successful as they are if Ford was still making the Focus and Taurus. Even if they ended up as a FocusCross and TaurusCross, I just don't understand it.

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

Ford literally makes zero sedans, it’s insane. Your options with Ford are Light Truck or token muscle car.

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leTrull@reddit

Ford was very successful but they seem to have missed the shift to cross overs. they killed their popular models but nothing compelling replaced them.

gm can look back to a history of failures in europe.

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Craniummon@reddit

Brazilian Ford built the EcoSport on Fiesta chassi in 2004, the car was massively successful here. But it seems wasn't repeated everywhere else. I thought a 176hp AWD crossover would be vastly successful nowadays.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Europe Ford is basically rebadged VW and Renault now. They give up any hatchback models and only sell crossover there just like American lineup.

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costafilh0@reddit

F-Series literally the 3rd best selling car in the world.

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bippos@reddit

Not even compelling just build 2-3 regular SUV and maybe one sedan and that’s it but they rather complain about not being able to sell their useless trucks

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noSSD4me@reddit

I am surprised someone in Europe actually wanted to buy some of these trucks lol

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fredflintstone7@reddit

send them the Ford Maverick

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Shmokesshweed@reddit

They'd sell dozens.

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SerialExperimentLean@reddit

The ranger is really popular here, I'm surprised they haven't brought the maverick over tbh

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Shmokesshweed@reddit

They move 40k units in Europe a year. Bringing the Maverick over would cannibalize some of those sales to an extent, while they'd also be forced to raise the price of the Maverick significantly due to import costs.

The Transit van they're building on the same platform should be made available in Europe imo. Market is much bigger.

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