Potential for a DPE to fail the GPS on IR Checkride
Posted by OneEconomist2238@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 39 comments
From what I understand, it depends on the DPE and the equipment you have in the aircraft: My instructor doesn’t think it would happen but I wanted some additional input from you guys.
The aircraft I’m flying is pretty bare bones. Standard 6 pack, dual VOR, and a 430W for the GPS.
Embarrassed_Dingo313@reddit
Mine failed waas on an LPV but not the whole thing. I didn’t have true dme so it would basically be impossible to shoot any approach if we are considering it actual IMC. That’s an emergency call immediately.
spacecadet2399@reddit
Very common to the point that it was standard in my area among all DPE's. Not sure if that's still the case. They won't necessarily "fail" your GPS, they can just tell you it's failed to force you to fly a certain approach. Make sure you know your ACS to you know what approaches you will have to fly. It's been a while now since I've been any sort of CFI but from what I remember, you're going to need to fly at least one non-precision approach, and a DPE can easily force that to be a VOR or other type of approach by just telling you the GPS has failed.
You should be going out and practicing all the approaches at all your area airports multiple times before your checkride. I used to instruct in the Phoenix area and we had like 7 area airports with instrument approaches (not including PHX, which wasn't really an option for IR checkrides) and I probably had my students do every approach at all of those airports about 10 times each.
Your "partial panel" requirement is probably going to involve something more than just a GPS failure, so that's going to be a separate thing.
baritone_mike@reddit
You should be able to competently fly a VOR, LOC or ILS approach without a GPS if you are checkride ready.
I make my students fly a full ground based approach, missed and hold without the GPS before I will endorse them. I even have them fly a DME arc without the GPS.
Icy-Bar-9712@reddit
What are you using for DME on these?
baritone_mike@reddit
The nearest VOR page on the GPS, I just kill the moving map and don’t give them the flight plan.
RyzOnReddit@reddit
Feels like taking a checkride in a plane with DME is equivalent to one with an ADF 20 years ago, why risk it on the big day? Not that we don’t all love partial panel NDB approaches…
baritone_mike@reddit
We don’t have DME but the GPS is legally a DME. They get the nearest VOR page on the GPS but have to fly it green needles.
RyzOnReddit@reddit
Makes sense as a way to practice it, I’d definitely politely with a DPE who asked for that on the checkride without also letting me use the map, not sure how that failure would happen and they are supposed to test you on the plane you show up in.
bhalter80@reddit
It's actually fun to do and a lot easier than you'd think.
The biggest thing is I take them up to MPV so they can see WHY the DME arc is there ... hint there's a mountain range just beyond it so it's either arc or an extra 2k in altitude for obstacle clearance. It makes a point about why the arc is there so that if they see it in the future it clicks not to screw it up
RyzOnReddit@reddit
Cool! I just flew the VOR-A into KOGD earlier this week, although that was in a /A so the only moving map was on my iPad. First DME arc in 20 years, it was fun!
saml01@reddit
You’re a monster!
CeznaFL30@reddit
Not the GUMDROP BUTTONS!
redrider7202@reddit
My dpe didn’t fail my gps per se, but I had to do an approach with vor raw data. Turn off the location on my iPad, have com1 set to a screen that didn’t show anything useful (think I use the timer page?) and do everything with crossing radials. Made me miss DME. Thankfully I still had ground track on the HSI.
Thought I was going to fail after I realized I had set the wrong radial and nearly blew through the hold point. Spent the next minute or so headed to the partial panel circle to land rnav repeating in my head “he didn’t say you failed just keep going.”
Various-Blood-3902@reddit
Train for it.
OneEconomist2238@reddit (OP)
We’ve been training it and things are going well! Was just curious if it’s common practice on IR rides in aircraft like mine.
ShaemusOdonnelly@reddit
I'm in an EASA country but my instructors barely let me fly with GPS at all, and the GPS magically started working again when the airport only had an RNP approach. The examiner didn't simulate a GPS failure in the actual checkride, but he made me fly raw data radio nav based departures, holdings & approaches and then 1 RNP. Just train for it, it really isn't that hard.
Go_Loud762@reddit
Add in NDB holding with sporty winds and I'm in.
ShaemusOdonnelly@reddit
I got lucky in my instrument check. Got a direct to the fix that was already at inbound course for the hold, and I had a perfect headwind hahaha. I did some NDB Holdings in windy southern france though, my first few ones were total shit shows.
NevadaCFI@reddit
I like to fail the GPS about 2nm from the VOR on a VOR approach so that the student has to do a timed approach. I also have them do an ILS without GPS which uses a VOR cross radial for the various fixes.
SoaringEagle469@reddit
When you get the ticket you’ll be legal to go fly IFR in an airplane without GPS (or even without GPS and DME) and there are plenty of them out there. I think a DPE would be insane to not require at least one approach with the GPS disabled.
bhalter80@reddit
What are the chances of your GPS failing while you're in the soup? Better than you think!
Screw what can happen on the checkride train for what's going to happen
JumboTrijet@reddit
If you can’t use VORs to find your position, you have no business with an IR
Left_Chemistry_9739@reddit
There is at least one examiner who does not allow GPS on your EFB.
CaptMcMooney@reddit
just assume the dpe is gonna fail everything, esp if it seems you absolutely depend on a piece of equip
Wooden-Department-78@reddit
Mine failed the 430 on an RNAV approach and asked me to explain my next steps. Once we talked it through she had me finish the approach to mins.
Curious-Owl6098@reddit
I think mine did and also i was also partial panel on the attitude indicator and dg. It’s been a bit so I forgot. None the less it’s not too bad and not a big deal at all on an ILS or vor approach. For the wind correction use bracketing. GPS does go out occasionally. I’ve had the RAIM fail on me during my commercial cross country when I was IFR which was a minor inconvenience(I just turned off the unit and turned it on again and that fixed it) . If you have an iPad or phone with a miniature plane moving on it overlay your approach plate with the map and that helps a lot for awareness.
PetesBrotherPaul@reddit
A few weeks ago I was flying CA to NY and the military decided to practice their GPS jamming, ATC didn’t even know it was coming, no GPS NOTAM either. If you’re worried about it, you’re too reliant on it.
Frost_907@reddit
It can and does happen, both on checkrides and in real life. Train for it.
BallotBard@reddit
My DPE told me as we walked to the plane "damn Russians bombed the GPS satellites. Looks like your first approach is going to be no GPS whatsoever."
Junior-Special5159@reddit
😂
TxAggieMike@reddit
That some bomber to achieve an altitude above 12,500 miles MSL. 😎
Comfortable_Taste217@reddit
My DPE failed it on my Private. They can do whatever they want
CluelessPilot1971@reddit
What about COM/NAV2?
DPE could tell you the GPS doesn't work, or that the 430W in its entirety doesn't work. Both options are fair game. Personally, I require my students to be able to fly the plane under partial panel, GPS-lessly, no Foreflight ownship.
Random61504@reddit
My instructor gave me so many different failures, partial panel, GPS fail, WAAS fail, anything he could think of (G1000NXi), then I got MFD failure on my checkride. Almost said it was too easy, considering I had done so much more, and many approaches with a PFD or MFD failure. Hated doing it in training, but he told me that he wanted to fail so many different things, that nothing the DPE could do would be a new sight.
CluelessPilot1971@reddit
This is the way. How did your CFI emulated a GPS failure and WAAS failure?
Random61504@reddit
He would usually just turn off the PFD map and turn the MFD to the aux or engine page. He didn't do that one too often, especially because he did it more often in the sims, we can connect our iPads to it and fail stuff. He had me shoot an ILS with no GPS, MFD, AHRS, or ADC, and with a examiner watching. The examiner asked him why he was trying to kill me, and he laughed and said, "I want him to be ready for you guys!" I nailed it on my first attempt. For WAAS, he would actually turn it off and watch for me to switch to LNAV mins. WAAS failure was pretty easy, but he would do those on approaches where he'd let me think it would be one with no failures usually, or he would do it after a AHRS/ADC failure to make sure I would catch it while already dealing with a failure.
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
You might get a scenario where you have to just navigate using vor’s. However the more likely scenario is he will fail your waas and you’ll have to switch to lnav minimums.
PsychologicalParty60@reddit
Practice radionavigation, don’t rely on the gps all the time. You should be able to track radials and fly ILS, LOC and VOR apps by the time of your Checkride.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
From what I understand, it depends on the DPE and the equipment you have in the aircraft: My instructor doesn’t think it would happen but I wanted some additional input from you guys.
The aircraft I’m flying is pretty bare bones. Standard 6 pack, dual VOR, and a 430W for the GPS.
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