Hearing it for the very first time in my life. As A Turkish person, I wonder what does the word mean (if it has a known meaning) and what are the roots to it?
It's a viking word from when the Kievan Rus first visited Constantinople. It means Great City, cause it was just basically the biggest city they ever saw. Some of these Vikings ended up forming the Byzantine 'Varangian Guard' which is imo one of the coolest elite soldier groups in history
Out of all the names it’s coolest I think as an Istanbulite myself. Both how it sounds and what it means. They saw it and just said “this is the greatest of them”. Simple yet well put.
I mean the guy didn’t even build the city, just took it and made the capital. It’s like Stalingrad, doesn’t really mean anything from people’s experiences. Miklagard, they saw it and they honored it, that’s something I can respect.
Even the ottomans called it Constantinople or constantiniye, Instabul which is also Greek words with Armenian pronunciation only started to be used officially after 1930
True, don’t get me wrong I just replied why I didn’t consider it the coolest. I don’t consider İstanbul as the coolest either and it’s my hometown. It has a bunch of names since its founding and I like them all. I objectively think it’s the greatest city in the world so calling it Great City in a language I can relate very much with.
No Germanic language kept that term for "oath sworn". It was replaced by local versions of "oath" in all of them. And the funny thing is how close that old word is to "ward" in Germanic languages, without even being related to it.
The city of Constantinople itself is today within the Fatih district of Istanbul, which is less than a tenth of modern day Istanbul anyway. I guess it sounds strange to us in Turkey because calling Istanbul Constantinople is referencing one small area to the entire city, which, was built after the Byzantines..
There is a Turkish joke that goes something like;
if we give the Greeks Istanbul we’d outnumber them by millions in their own country, we’d democratically elect a Turkish party to make Greece part of Turkey.
That's a joke in Greece too. But the reason it's a sensitive issue is not because Greeks want Istanbul (at least not the majority).
It's because people were violently expelled not so long ago. For example, my bf's family was living there up to 1964 and had a house and a fortune there, and all of it was lost. Would you expect him to start calling it Istanbul just because Turkey wanted? People have personal memories and stories that are still surviving in Greece, so it's only natural the older name is used.
Turks may be more in population, but that doesn't erase the roots many Greek people have to this place.
Why does that sound strange though? Historical Paris is much smaller than modern-day Paris but it is still called Paris. Same thing for Vienna, Berlin or London. Commonly used Greek word for Istanbul is Constantinople and the growth in city size is no reason to call it something else suddenly.
It wasnt about growth at all Istanbul is ruled by turks until now close to 700 years if england would have had paris until this day they would be using another name now eh ?
Are you responding to me or the other guy up there? Because you are talking about two different things.
Anyways, it's unlikely that the English would come up with a different name for Paris other than their relative butchering of the French pronunciation. Even if what you said had happened, The French would have still called it Paris anyway, which is the more relevant case here. But I really don't understand why you are so eager to police other people's language.
Why is it called Dedeagaç and not Alexandroupoli in Turkish? Why Selanik and not Thessaloniki? There are countless examples like these.
We already know it that way. We also call Switzerland "Elvetia". Other countries too. I don't see the issue.
Plus Istanbul means "to the city" and doesn't make much sense as a standalone. While Constantinople means the city of Constantine and it fits Greek way better.
Not every language is calling Berlin as Berlin and Lisboa as Lisboa
Not every language is calling Germany as Deutschland?
Because different languages have often different words for other cities and countries. The reasons can be historical, can be random, can be just phonetic adaptations. It doesnt matter.
It's not, Turks call Yunanistan because that's how they recognize you. Yunanistan, coming from Ionia. With your interpretation, the difference between the Greeks and Roman is not clear. We call the Christians living in Anatolia Rum. Greek identity did not exist when we arrived. That's why the Seljuks are called the Sultanate of Rum.
Many examples like this exist, like Germany-Deutschland-Almanya. We call it Almanya because we learned it as the Alemanni Tribe. They are called Allemagne in French and Alemania in Spanish. We also started calling it Alamanya, and over time, it became Almanya.
The same thing works for Thessaloniki-Selanik. We call it Selanik because we can not pronounce Thessaloniki. We did the same thing for Constantinopolis. We called it Konstantiniyye, the best we can pronounce it. There are even examples of names, Like Joseph is Yusuf, John is Can, and Adam is Adem. But we do not call Christopher Muhammed. Likewise, the name changed to Istanbul, which is not about pronunciation. It's a name change. Hence, you can not call it Constantinopolis at this point. OFC until owner of the city doesn't say so. I believe the origin of it comes from ownership feelings for the Greeks. It was not just a city but also a religious capital.
It is misleading cause while we may still use Κωνσταντινούπολη in Greek, no one will say Constantinople when referring to it in English, we say Instanbul. It’s the same way we use Φιλιππούπολη instead of Plovdiv or Γαλλία instead of France. The point being, we use different terms for many things, not just Instanbul.
“Istanbul” in Greeks mean literally “is-tin-poli” (at-the-city) which refers directly to “constantinoupolis” where people call it “polis” (city)…Turkish people doesn’t like this and I can understand that,but it’s the truth…
Who said we didn't like it? We used Konstantiniyye in the Ottoman Era. Also, we are aware that the origin of Istanbul comes from at-the-city. Also, Izmir comes from Smyrna, which they pronounce as Ismirni. We don't have a problem with Greek origin names; we have a problem with the audacity of Greeks who think they have some kind of authority over what the city name should be. The point here whoever owns the city can name it whatever they want. Today, we don't see anybody saying it's not New York, it is New Amsterdam. We like the same approach for Istanbul.
Does everyone call Berlin, Berlin? Does everyone call Lisboa , Lisboa?
Does everyone call Germany Deutschland?
No.
Because different languages have often different words for other cities and countries. The reasons can be historical, can be random, can be just phonetic adaptations. It doesnt matter. Let people call them as the want.
Many cities in Anatolia still carry their previous names even if phonetically adapted like Kayseri, (Caeseria) Sivas, (Sebastea) etc many others like that. Turks didn’t go out of way to completely erase the names
In Greece we have a tendency to hellenize many foreign place names. The most funny example is probably the Chinese city Beijing. We call it Πεκινο (Pekino) in Greece!
In some epic songs (18 and 19 century), Sultan is called Ćesar (ć~q) (our form of reading of Caesar). Sultan was used as personal title (sultan Murat, sultan Mehmed II Osvajač, sultan Sulejman Veličanstveni), but Ottoman empire was called Osmansko carstvo (c~tz) and its ruler was called turski car
It's complicated. Only Mehmed the Conqueror and Suleiman the Magnificent were really serious about the title. And Suleiman was probably mostly interested in the claim to Italy that came with it. Mehmed was serious about it and he did make the Patriarch recognize him as Caesar, but nobody outside of the empire recognized that title. Plus, he was probably the only sultan who was a Roman history nerd. Most sultans didn't care.
You have chosen, or been chosen, to relocate to one of our finest remaining urban centers. I thought so much of City 34 that I elected to establish my Administration here, in the Citadel so thoughtfully provided by Our Benefactors. I have been proud to call City 34 my home. And so, whether you are here to stay, or passing through on your way to parts unknown, welcome to City 34. It's safer here.
What old people?
Some old really old grandparents from country side maybe herd it in Church ( Patriarch of Constantinople) , but no one ever with rather modern schools after 80s called it Constantinople. Istambul all the way.
most people aged 40-50 above know it's both Constantinopole and Istanbul, they are just aware Istanbul is the actual version.
Their parents, aged 70-80 typically refer to it via Constantinople. No church or whatever is necessary. It's just what they were thought formally or informally and what they just know.
I think I heard Constantinopol a few times, mainly from old people.
Mind you, the name Constantinopol was used until the early 20th century not just in Romania, but the whole Europe, until, after 1923, Turkyie officially opposed using it.
Fun fact: only us and Greece still use the old roman name for Switzerland: Elveția. Everybody else is using the germanic name,,Switzerland.
Maybe that was true in the 1800s, but today we use “Istanbul.” Even official sources reflect this; for example, the Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs refers to its Consulate General in Istanbul, not “Carigrad.”
No one said they don't, but as far as I know, Albanian is not an official language in Serbia for Serbia. Still, even if it was, the coloring on the map would still be valid.
Do people even read the post, comments and focus on figuring the point of conversation before jumping into a discussion/argument?
considering albanian is the 1st official language of Kosova, i think it would be more appropriate to be colored on what its called in albanian, and the og commenter was just trying to correct the op
Serbs make up 1.5% of Kosovo's population, so the wet dreams are on your end. Delusional people who think will get your way if you say it often enough.
It's not really connected to the Istanbul tho, only as light historical reference. The name is that more because "Царьград" is literally "King city" and "King city TV" as name for monarchist media isn't the stupidest thing monarchist mind can came up with
I call it Constantinople in Greek, I call it Istanbul in English. I mean, there isn't anything patriotic in either, it's a city, I use the name that makes what I say understood by people around me without them giving me weird looks. The same goes for practically every place? It's weird that this is an issue for some of my compatriots.
It depends on where do you use. If we talk about before the conquering sometimes we say konstantin but if we talk after the conquering then we say istanbul. (Sorry for my English my head hurts I didn’t focus)
I can't wrap my head around why Turks are so sensitive when it comes to names of things.
Like, they literally give people shit for calling their country Turkey instead of tÜrKiYe. The same applies to the names of Istanbul, even here in the thread you got people going "it's still Istanbul at the end of the day 💪🐺🇹🇷". Meanwhile they've got no issues with referring to Skopje as Üsküp, Sarajevo as Saraybosna and Thessaloniki as Selanik...
And I say this as someone who truly does love Turkey and its people. Just, chill out arkadaşlar....
It’s deadnaming. Turkey essentially transitioned and requested a name change. Some people respected, some didn’t. It’s like deadnaming someone and asking “why are you triggered, bro?”
Ukrainians requested it’s now Kyiv instead of Kiev and nobody went out of their way to trigger them in 5 years. But for İstanbul we still have this conversation after 100 years. Anyone wonder why?
Man, stop seeing things. You guys don't need to act like the whole world is against you.
You call us Yunanistan.. What the hell is even that? But it's your language and you can call us whatever you want. We call you Τουρκια (Turkia). I know you want Turkiye but we use Turkia since.. forever. The same goes for Istanbul. My great grandparents lived there, it was Konstantinoupoli. My grandparents learnt it like that, and then my parents learnt it like that and I learnt it like that. I am not going to change how I talk because you feel like it. And I am not going to press you to call us Hellas or Greece because Yunanistan has literally nothing to do with my country. Sounds like.. Arabic or something.
As for Turkey/Türkiye I don’t care. I start to care when people go out of their way “I’m not saying that never” purely to spite people. And yeah a good part of the world is against us, you wouldn’t know from experience that whenever your country is the topic of a thread there are always many upvoted messages purely to agitate.
Yunanistan comes from ancient Ionians but borrowed from Arabic. It’s like how French calls Germany Allemaigne after one of its ancient tribes, then Turks borrowed it from French to call it Almanya. Nothing to do with Deutschland. If Greeks wanted to change their name to Hellas in English I’d obligate them of course. Why not?
Up to you whatever you can anything in your own language but making a big deal out of it as seen in this thread carries a meaning which is bothersome.
bro i literally answered a map question with one word and you somehow turned it into a full psychological analysis of my identity 😭 like how did we go from “Constantinopol” to “your entire personality is built on hatred”….relax, it’s geography not a therapy session, nobody’s writing a thesis here.
just a bit context: some people falsely think that turks intentionally changed the name of the city, in reality it’s just a derived form of the how locals used to call it (eis tin polin). the name “istanbul” itself doesn’t have any meaning in turkish just like other examples as smyrna:izmir, iconum:konya, trebizond:trabzon, tessalonica:selanik, cyprus:kibris etc. vowel harmony system in turkish language makes difficult to pronounce foreign words, so like in telephone game foreign words become deformed as easier to pronounce turkish way.
Noben v Sloveniji ne uporablja zares Carigrad in to dobro ves. V sodobni vsakodnevni rabi je Istanbul dalec pogostejsi in standarden izraz. Ja Carigrad je staroslovenska beseda ampak je danes precej arhaicna. Ce ti pase jo uporabljaj, sam ne se pa pretvarjat, da je to neka norma v Sloveniji.
Dva od treh Slovencev v tem subredditu sva napisala, da je Carigrad. Malo ti je logika šibka očitno, ne? Najbrž ni čisto res kar trdiš, glede na očitna dejstva.
"Motíš se, to sem vedela. Ti si prvi komentiral. )) I mean yes you were first to say this." ni moja logika sibka. Ti si ocitno funkcionalno nepismen tudi.
Glej, ne da se mi več... Ne vem zakaj misliš, da ti bom screenshote pošiljal ali kaj? Ko ti ne moreš niti poklikat na linke. Iskreno, moje sožalje. Misli si kar si hočeš. To je moje zadnje sporočilo. Carigrad rečemo, ne Istanbul, pa Dunaj, ne Vienna, pa tako naprej... Nisem jaz tu, da bi te šolal, niti nisem tu, da se s kreteni ukvarjam. Srečno!
Ja, po slovensko se reče Carigrad: https://fran.si/iskanje?View=1&Query=Carigrad. Ne vem kaj misliš z "Beat me to it". Nisem jaz tu zato, da bi tebe učil slovenščino.
To je samo eno od starih imen in ni vec v uporabi. Pri uri zgodovine se naucimo da obstajajo stiri imena za to mest: Istanbul, Carigrad, Kostantinopel in Bizanc.
In Serbian I call it Istanbul, and in some weird way in modern-day Serbian the way you pronounce it often sounds like "Istambul". Sometimes I say Carigrad, Konstantinopolj, Stambol and sometimes I pronounce it like in Turkish with the accent on "stan". Depends on the context. Any Serb would understand any of these variations.
Representing the Romanians here. In our own country, informally, we call it Constantinople, formally, when it's legal terms speaking or speaking to a general audience, we use the political legal term of Istanbul.
So basically, in our brain, its Istanbul, in our hearts, it's Constantinople.
We don’t. Also, I never heard anyone using Constantinople in Moldova when referring to the modern city, it’s normally used in historical textbooks or history-related discussions.
Affectionate_Run1810@reddit
Constantinople or Carigrad 😎
Westfjordian@reddit
Istanbúl or Mikligarður (somewhat rare) in 🇮🇸
ineedtocalmup@reddit
Hearing it for the very first time in my life. As A Turkish person, I wonder what does the word mean (if it has a known meaning) and what are the roots to it?
neefhuts@reddit
It's a viking word from when the Kievan Rus first visited Constantinople. It means Great City, cause it was just basically the biggest city they ever saw. Some of these Vikings ended up forming the Byzantine 'Varangian Guard' which is imo one of the coolest elite soldier groups in history
Ultramarinus@reddit
Out of all the names it’s coolest I think as an Istanbulite myself. Both how it sounds and what it means. They saw it and just said “this is the greatest of them”. Simple yet well put.
i_getitin@reddit
Why isn’t Constantinople the coolest ?
Ultramarinus@reddit
I mean the guy didn’t even build the city, just took it and made the capital. It’s like Stalingrad, doesn’t really mean anything from people’s experiences. Miklagard, they saw it and they honored it, that’s something I can respect.
atrixospithikos@reddit
Even the ottomans called it Constantinople or constantiniye, Instabul which is also Greek words with Armenian pronunciation only started to be used officially after 1930
TanVaktidir@reddit
Armenian pronunciation? Lol
Ultramarinus@reddit
True, don’t get me wrong I just replied why I didn’t consider it the coolest. I don’t consider İstanbul as the coolest either and it’s my hometown. It has a bunch of names since its founding and I like them all. I objectively think it’s the greatest city in the world so calling it Great City in a language I can relate very much with.
Efteraar@reddit
It means big town/place.
Andikl@reddit
Interesting. Does "væringr" has a meaning in modern Icelandic? Until today I never connected "varangian" to that word.
Majestic_Potato_5408@reddit
No Germanic language kept that term for "oath sworn". It was replaced by local versions of "oath" in all of them. And the funny thing is how close that old word is to "ward" in Germanic languages, without even being related to it.
KakaoFugl@reddit
Wtf
Blood_Prince95@reddit
It’s natural to call cities in other countries with historical names from your county’s heritage.
Plovdiv = Philipopolis
Thessaloniki = Solun, Salanik
Izmir = Smyrne
Ioannina = Jiannina
Greece = Yunaistan
Zealousideal_Low9994@reddit
idk why Greeks are obsessed with Constantinople, Istanbul comes from Greek anyway
Puzzled-Leader1@reddit
The city of Constantinople itself is today within the Fatih district of Istanbul, which is less than a tenth of modern day Istanbul anyway. I guess it sounds strange to us in Turkey because calling Istanbul Constantinople is referencing one small area to the entire city, which, was built after the Byzantines..
There is a Turkish joke that goes something like; if we give the Greeks Istanbul we’d outnumber them by millions in their own country, we’d democratically elect a Turkish party to make Greece part of Turkey.
Ok-Possibility-4378@reddit
That's a joke in Greece too. But the reason it's a sensitive issue is not because Greeks want Istanbul (at least not the majority).
It's because people were violently expelled not so long ago. For example, my bf's family was living there up to 1964 and had a house and a fortune there, and all of it was lost. Would you expect him to start calling it Istanbul just because Turkey wanted? People have personal memories and stories that are still surviving in Greece, so it's only natural the older name is used.
Turks may be more in population, but that doesn't erase the roots many Greek people have to this place.
Roaring_Beaver@reddit
Why does that sound strange though? Historical Paris is much smaller than modern-day Paris but it is still called Paris. Same thing for Vienna, Berlin or London. Commonly used Greek word for Istanbul is Constantinople and the growth in city size is no reason to call it something else suddenly.
NovaImperiumRomanum@reddit
It wasnt about growth at all Istanbul is ruled by turks until now close to 700 years if england would have had paris until this day they would be using another name now eh ?
Roaring_Beaver@reddit
Are you responding to me or the other guy up there? Because you are talking about two different things. Anyways, it's unlikely that the English would come up with a different name for Paris other than their relative butchering of the French pronunciation. Even if what you said had happened, The French would have still called it Paris anyway, which is the more relevant case here. But I really don't understand why you are so eager to police other people's language.
Why is it called Dedeagaç and not Alexandroupoli in Turkish? Why Selanik and not Thessaloniki? There are countless examples like these.
Ok-Possibility-4378@reddit
We already know it that way. We also call Switzerland "Elvetia". Other countries too. I don't see the issue.
Plus Istanbul means "to the city" and doesn't make much sense as a standalone. While Constantinople means the city of Constantine and it fits Greek way better.
giallonero21@reddit
The Greek word is Constantinople. I suppose you don't call Athens, Athens in your language, correct?
Ultramarinus@reddit
It’s called Atina, like Greeks spell it. Modern day Turks don’t use İstanköy for Kos anymore for example, they use Kos because Greeks call it Kos.
giallonero21@reddit
I presume you refer to Thessaloniki as Selanik, Komotini as Gümülcine, Alexandroupoli as Dedeağaç and so on, correct?
pelfet@reddit
bro you are missing the point a bit..
Not every language is calling Berlin as Berlin and Lisboa as Lisboa
Not every language is calling Germany as Deutschland?
Because different languages have often different words for other cities and countries. The reasons can be historical, can be random, can be just phonetic adaptations. It doesnt matter.
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
Do you spell it Αθήνα ?
Ultramarinus@reddit
Phonetically yes so Atina is more Greek than Athens is.
FantasticQuartet@reddit
It's simply the way it's called here. For the same reason everyone says Greece and not Hellas. Or you say Solun and not Thessaloniki.
The fact that some people on the internet (mainly kids) say it should be called Constantinople is because of your usual Balkan nationalism.
Sensitive-Emu1@reddit
It's not, Turks call Yunanistan because that's how they recognize you. Yunanistan, coming from Ionia. With your interpretation, the difference between the Greeks and Roman is not clear. We call the Christians living in Anatolia Rum. Greek identity did not exist when we arrived. That's why the Seljuks are called the Sultanate of Rum.
Many examples like this exist, like Germany-Deutschland-Almanya. We call it Almanya because we learned it as the Alemanni Tribe. They are called Allemagne in French and Alemania in Spanish. We also started calling it Alamanya, and over time, it became Almanya.
The same thing works for Thessaloniki-Selanik. We call it Selanik because we can not pronounce Thessaloniki. We did the same thing for Constantinopolis. We called it Konstantiniyye, the best we can pronounce it. There are even examples of names, Like Joseph is Yusuf, John is Can, and Adam is Adem. But we do not call Christopher Muhammed. Likewise, the name changed to Istanbul, which is not about pronunciation. It's a name change. Hence, you can not call it Constantinopolis at this point. OFC until owner of the city doesn't say so. I believe the origin of it comes from ownership feelings for the Greeks. It was not just a city but also a religious capital.
EvilInGood@reddit
Solun? We call it Selanik in Turkey. I've only heard Albanians use the Solun name for Thessaloniki.
FantasticQuartet@reddit
I was referring to the OP comment because he has a North Macedonia flag.
But Selanik is another good point to how each language has their own toponyms.
Zealousideal_Low9994@reddit
He mean me as in Balkan slavs
slavicbrewmaster@reddit
Instanbul comes from turks hearing greeks say “stin poli” to the city. Kind of like canada meaning “village” in the local language.
atzitzi@reddit
We still call it Poli😊
Lonely-Sunbed-2508@reddit
It is misleading cause while we may still use Κωνσταντινούπολη in Greek, no one will say Constantinople when referring to it in English, we say Instanbul. It’s the same way we use Φιλιππούπολη instead of Plovdiv or Γαλλία instead of France. The point being, we use different terms for many things, not just Instanbul.
AntiKouk@reddit
Tbf I use it in English lol. But not 100% of the time
Lonely-Sunbed-2508@reddit
Too many syllables, like the word syllables.
pinkfatcap@reddit
Obsession with what? Using our language? If I am referring to it in English it's Istanbul, endonym vs exonym, just like Hellas and Greece.
ToeWonderful2200@reddit
Nobody is obsessed, Greeks just use the Greek original name of a Greek city. Why are Turks obsessed with changing it? Weird
nothing_2_gain@reddit
I call it quietly. Or slowly.
The question must start with "What"
nothing_2_gain@reddit
Istanbul or Constantinople
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
No one calls it Tsarigrad in Slovenia
DifficultWill4@reddit
The official word is Carigrad, like it not.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Except it isn’t.
DifficultWill4@reddit
Except it is.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Little tip: try typing “Istanbul” in there
DifficultWill4@reddit
It comes up, but so do Bizanc and Konstantinopel
Also, google maps uses Carigrad
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
So not a real argument then. And what do schoolbooks for geography use? Have you checked those too?
If you use Carigrad that’s completely fine but I’ve never ever heard anyone use it, it sounds rather archaic.
Goml33@reddit
How i call? with a phone
BardhyliX@reddit
Aint heard a soul call it Tsarigrad, is it a serb thing
suvarimiralay@reddit
And its still Istanbul
Exotic_Cantaloupe_96@reddit
A city can have many names. Anything can have many names really.
suvarimiralay@reddit
Sure. But it is İstanbul. Not consjsksjsdjsks
Exotic_Cantaloupe_96@reddit
Its ok, istanbul is a beautiful name. What does jt mean?
suvarimiralay@reddit
It was greek, "in the city"
Exotic_Cantaloupe_96@reddit
Which city?
suvarimiralay@reddit
İstanbul.
Ok-Possibility-4378@reddit
This creates a loop in uncomfortable with 😛
HydratedRasin@reddit
Well, it's nobody's business but the Turks, and you are from Turkiye, so I believe you 😅
suvarimiralay@reddit
Nice. Stay healthy.
MyrmBoth_io@reddit
Greek word btw
suvarimiralay@reddit
No problem. It is Istanbul.
life_hacker_14@reddit
wow at leasy i know one greek word. btw, you love btw dont you :p
nikos198289@reddit
“Istanbul” in Greeks mean literally “is-tin-poli” (at-the-city) which refers directly to “constantinoupolis” where people call it “polis” (city)…Turkish people doesn’t like this and I can understand that,but it’s the truth…
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
I haven't heard Turkish people saying they don't like it
Sad-Plankton-2034@reddit
I think we should have kept the original names.
Sensitive-Emu1@reddit
Who said we didn't like it? We used Konstantiniyye in the Ottoman Era. Also, we are aware that the origin of Istanbul comes from at-the-city. Also, Izmir comes from Smyrna, which they pronounce as Ismirni. We don't have a problem with Greek origin names; we have a problem with the audacity of Greeks who think they have some kind of authority over what the city name should be. The point here whoever owns the city can name it whatever they want. Today, we don't see anybody saying it's not New York, it is New Amsterdam. We like the same approach for Istanbul.
pelfet@reddit
I think you are missing the point.
Does everyone call Berlin, Berlin? Does everyone call Lisboa , Lisboa?
Does everyone call Germany Deutschland?
No.
Because different languages have often different words for other cities and countries. The reasons can be historical, can be random, can be just phonetic adaptations. It doesnt matter. Let people call them as the want.
Ultramarinus@reddit
Many cities in Anatolia still carry their previous names even if phonetically adapted like Kayseri, (Caeseria) Sivas, (Sebastea) etc many others like that. Turks didn’t go out of way to completely erase the names
Antropocentric@reddit
Bizanc
raveenreyes@reddit
not anymore💔🥀
Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit
In Greece we have a tendency to hellenize many foreign place names. The most funny example is probably the Chinese city Beijing. We call it Πεκινο (Pekino) in Greece!
Vizd1m@reddit
We also say Pekin for Beijing. Interesting resemblance.
Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit
Oh well! Somehow I'm not surprised :)
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Tsarigrad in the big 2026🥀
HumanMan00@reddit
Our ppl called the sultan Tzar. Ita just our word for the emperor and Tzarigrad means Imperial City.
Now that i think about it - please dont use this name, you miggt get ideas again. 😅
suvarimiralay@reddit
Interesting, never heard of it.
Also our ppl called the sultan "Padişah".
Live-Method-219@reddit
In some epic songs (18 and 19 century), Sultan is called Ćesar (ć~q) (our form of reading of Caesar). Sultan was used as personal title (sultan Murat, sultan Mehmed II Osvajač, sultan Sulejman Veličanstveni), but Ottoman empire was called Osmansko carstvo (c~tz) and its ruler was called turski car
HumanMan00@reddit
We used that too but there are many Ottoman times songs that refer to him as Tzar.
There is one where a hurt hajduk is found by a Turkish woman to who he promises two out of his three loads of treasure to heal him.
She agrees but her brother wants it all so he kills him but his sister reports him to the Tzar and he geta executed.
🤷♂️
Mysterious-Put1459@reddit
You called the sultan "tsar"? We never had that
Deep-Ad5028@reddit
For a few centuries the Ottoman ruler did hold the title of the Roman Emperor.
mao_dze_dun@reddit
It's complicated. Only Mehmed the Conqueror and Suleiman the Magnificent were really serious about the title. And Suleiman was probably mostly interested in the claim to Italy that came with it. Mehmed was serious about it and he did make the Patriarch recognize him as Caesar, but nobody outside of the empire recognized that title. Plus, he was probably the only sultan who was a Roman history nerd. Most sultans didn't care.
Mysterious-Put1459@reddit
Yeah they named themselves Roman Caesar afte conquering Constantinople but it's kind of self-proclaimed title
HumanMan00@reddit
I think this was the casw for commonwra. It made little difference to them what the official title is - they stuck with what they know.
Adorable-Ad-1180@reddit
I think hes just going off some old songs lol.
HumanMan00@reddit
Google it. It was used through many folklore songs and it was the standard for common folk.
Fun-Disaster9796@reddit
City 34
vlmtdev@reddit
Welcome. Welcome to City 34.
You have chosen, or been chosen, to relocate to one of our finest remaining urban centers. I thought so much of City 34 that I elected to establish my Administration here, in the Citadel so thoughtfully provided by Our Benefactors. I have been proud to call City 34 my home. And so, whether you are here to stay, or passing through on your way to parts unknown, welcome to City 34. It's safer here.
Dear-Ad1582@reddit
No one in Romania calls it Constantinople.. No one.. Maybe in Churchs sermons.. Maybe...
Istanbul!!!
thedudewhoshaveseggs@reddit
old people sometimes call it constantinopole
it's rare to very rare nowadays, but it's not inaccurate
Dear-Ad1582@reddit
What old people? Some old really old grandparents from country side maybe herd it in Church ( Patriarch of Constantinople) , but no one ever with rather modern schools after 80s called it Constantinople. Istambul all the way.
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
Why are you hating on the facts bro?
thedudewhoshaveseggs@reddit
most people aged 40-50 above know it's both Constantinopole and Istanbul, they are just aware Istanbul is the actual version.
Their parents, aged 70-80 typically refer to it via Constantinople. No church or whatever is necessary. It's just what they were thought formally or informally and what they just know.
IamMefisto-theDevil@reddit
Not just churches.
You can find it in the song Phoenix - Baba Novac.
I think I heard Constantinopol a few times, mainly from old people.
Mind you, the name Constantinopol was used until the early 20th century not just in Romania, but the whole Europe, until, after 1923, Turkyie officially opposed using it.
Fun fact: only us and Greece still use the old roman name for Switzerland: Elveția. Everybody else is using the germanic name,,Switzerland.
floare_salbatica@reddit
Nah, Germans call it die Schweiz. 😅
Wojewodaruskyj@reddit
Miklagarðr.
Krasniqi857@reddit
interesting to call it a germanic name from slavs, didnt know
P-l-Staker@reddit
Fun fact: Ukrainians and Russians have some part-viking origins. Look up the "Kievan Rus" if interested.
Peepeepoopoo2014@reddit
He’s joking, we call it Stambul
Wojewodaruskyj@reddit
I'm only joking.
EfficiencySmall4951@reddit
Nobody calls it Constantinople now
CompetitiveCloud2434@reddit
In Armenian we also call it Bolis, or Polis which is the Greek word for 'city'
Maximum_Stock3512@reddit
Romanians dont say Constantinopol
unluckyexperiment@reddit
Depends on which part I'm calling. You should start with +90212 for the European part, and +90216 for tha Asian part.
RammRras@reddit
Off topic but for once I must say beautiful color choice
PayAdministrative436@reddit
Nobody calls it tsarigrad
We call it Stamboll
damir_h@reddit
U Stambolu na bosforu bolan paša leži…
PayAdministrative436@reddit
What
oerwtas@reddit
It's a sevdalinka song
PayAdministrative436@reddit
I have no idea who that is
Orqee@reddit
In Croatia its called carigrad
CoughPhi@reddit
Maybe that was true in the 1800s, but today we use “Istanbul.” Even official sources reflect this; for example, the Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs refers to its Consulate General in Istanbul, not “Carigrad.”
deviendrais@reddit
Who is we
PayAdministrative436@reddit
Kosovo. Forgot the flair
Stverghame@reddit
Serbs exist there, deal with it :)
panterapembe@reddit
albanians exist in serbia too, what’s your point?
Stverghame@reddit
No one said they don't, but as far as I know, Albanian is not an official language in Serbia for Serbia. Still, even if it was, the coloring on the map would still be valid.
Do people even read the post, comments and focus on figuring the point of conversation before jumping into a discussion/argument?
panterapembe@reddit
considering albanian is the 1st official language of Kosova, i think it would be more appropriate to be colored on what its called in albanian, and the og commenter was just trying to correct the op
Stverghame@reddit
There is no "1st official", there is either official or not official.
In the so-called Kosovo, both Albanian and Serbian are official language. Wet dreams of complete hegemony on your end, that's what it is.
Teabx@reddit
Serbs make up 1.5% of Kosovo's population, so the wet dreams are on your end. Delusional people who think will get your way if you say it often enough.
panterapembe@reddit
maps like this follow majority usage, and in Kosovo that’s Albanian. very simple bro
PayAdministrative436@reddit
I don’t have to, they are dying out 😂😂
Stverghame@reddit
How funny 😂😂😂
Pathetic.
Hot-Air2218@reddit
Who asked?
Stverghame@reddit
The guy said no one said "Carigrad" there. I just told him Serbs live there, so the color is valid. You mad?
desideriux@reddit
Who in Serbia says Carigrad? Maybe when you speak historically, but no one says “I’m travelling to Carigrad”.
Stverghame@reddit
The word itself exists as a legit one, which is enough for the color on the map - the whole point of the post.
I never said it is a prevalent term.
desideriux@reddit
Then we could also include Konstantinopolj.
Stverghame@reddit
That's correct, I would have added that as well.
Toloymak@reddit
Same for russsian-speakers
Martoto_94@reddit
I’ve never heard anyone unironically call it Tsarigrad outside of history class in school. But maybe it’s a regional thing.
superkikiriki@reddit
Moj deda je govorio stambol, a često sam čuo i carigrad
justcallmeeva@reddit
Never ever heard Tsar’grad in relation to Istanbul.
Third_Rate_Duelist_@reddit
Yeah it's only called Tsarigrad in old songs or history class. And we also call it Stanbol sometimes.
gendalf666@reddit
There is Tsarigrad TV channel in Russia owned by closer to mad imperialists.
kvasoslave@reddit
It's not really connected to the Istanbul tho, only as light historical reference. The name is that more because "Царьград" is literally "King city" and "King city TV" as name for monarchist media isn't the stupidest thing monarchist mind can came up with
Annan1207@reddit
As a Turk I never heard tsarigrad
BandAdditional6084@reddit
Carigrad.
Stambol.
EddieDexx@reddit
Miklagård!
dragecs@reddit
Стамболград
Babuci97@reddit
We call it Stamboll, but forever is Costandinople
More_Ad_5142@reddit
Cringe coming from an Albanian who has no emotional investment in the name of the city
Babuci97@reddit
Cringe for someone to come from Asia and put names of cities in Europe and try to change history
Marakajin@reddit
I call it Constantinople in Greek, I call it Istanbul in English. I mean, there isn't anything patriotic in either, it's a city, I use the name that makes what I say understood by people around me without them giving me weird looks. The same goes for practically every place? It's weird that this is an issue for some of my compatriots.
hubbabubbameqershi@reddit
I don't give a shit what officially Albania calles it, for me is Kostandinopoja, that's how older people called it in the country.
Next_League6403@reddit
Trafik.
Putrid_Speed_5138@reddit
My wife is Romanian, and I have never heard anyone there refer to Istanbul as Constantinople.
My father-in-law is a staunch Romanian nationalist.
Perhaps he fears I will kill him and appoint his son as the next voivode of Wallachia.
TinyAsianMachine@reddit
Ah yes, the great linguistic qualification of listening to your wife talking to her parents on Facebook Messenger.
zencicagan@reddit
It depends on where do you use. If we talk about before the conquering sometimes we say konstantin but if we talk after the conquering then we say istanbul. (Sorry for my English my head hurts I didn’t focus)
Handzir@reddit
I can't wrap my head around why Turks are so sensitive when it comes to names of things.
Like, they literally give people shit for calling their country Turkey instead of tÜrKiYe. The same applies to the names of Istanbul, even here in the thread you got people going "it's still Istanbul at the end of the day 💪🐺🇹🇷". Meanwhile they've got no issues with referring to Skopje as Üsküp, Sarajevo as Saraybosna and Thessaloniki as Selanik...
And I say this as someone who truly does love Turkey and its people. Just, chill out arkadaşlar....
Ultramarinus@reddit
It’s deadnaming. Turkey essentially transitioned and requested a name change. Some people respected, some didn’t. It’s like deadnaming someone and asking “why are you triggered, bro?”
Ukrainians requested it’s now Kyiv instead of Kiev and nobody went out of their way to trigger them in 5 years. But for İstanbul we still have this conversation after 100 years. Anyone wonder why?
PrJctUnKnWn@reddit
Man, stop seeing things. You guys don't need to act like the whole world is against you.
You call us Yunanistan.. What the hell is even that? But it's your language and you can call us whatever you want. We call you Τουρκια (Turkia). I know you want Turkiye but we use Turkia since.. forever. The same goes for Istanbul. My great grandparents lived there, it was Konstantinoupoli. My grandparents learnt it like that, and then my parents learnt it like that and I learnt it like that. I am not going to change how I talk because you feel like it. And I am not going to press you to call us Hellas or Greece because Yunanistan has literally nothing to do with my country. Sounds like.. Arabic or something.
Ultramarinus@reddit
As for Turkey/Türkiye I don’t care. I start to care when people go out of their way “I’m not saying that never” purely to spite people. And yeah a good part of the world is against us, you wouldn’t know from experience that whenever your country is the topic of a thread there are always many upvoted messages purely to agitate.
Yunanistan comes from ancient Ionians but borrowed from Arabic. It’s like how French calls Germany Allemaigne after one of its ancient tribes, then Turks borrowed it from French to call it Almanya. Nothing to do with Deutschland. If Greeks wanted to change their name to Hellas in English I’d obligate them of course. Why not?
Up to you whatever you can anything in your own language but making a big deal out of it as seen in this thread carries a meaning which is bothersome.
Beautiful_Ad6686@reddit
Stamboll here in Kosova 🇽🇰
PRE51DENT@reddit
Wrong - in hungarian it is Istambul, yes with an m.
BigCatSM@reddit
Estambul
elixxirumoflife@reddit
Constantinopol🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
Sensitive-Emu1@reddit
How does it feel to have an identity built on top of Turkish hatred? If the Turks were called it Constantinople, you would comment Istanbul🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷.
elixxirumoflife@reddit
bro i literally answered a map question with one word and you somehow turned it into a full psychological analysis of my identity 😭 like how did we go from “Constantinopol” to “your entire personality is built on hatred”….relax, it’s geography not a therapy session, nobody’s writing a thesis here.
Sensitive-Emu1@reddit
You are right, I apologize, I was pissed about something else. I love you.
EvilInGood@reddit
Osmantinople
Le_Fish_In_Lava@reddit
oh... thats even worse than anything
Sensitive-Emu1@reddit
What about Osmanbul
EvilInGood@reddit
Yeah🥀
Fun_Law_6148@reddit
constantinople
Th3Dark0ccult@reddit
Tsarigrad (Цариград) only in historical context, like in school books for history class. In casual convo it's Istanbul.
arf_arf1@reddit
Or street names. Interestingly the one of the main artery roads in Sofia.
StogamerBG@reddit
Most of the major arterial roads in Sofia are named after the cities they lead to - such as Tsarigradsko, Botevgradsko, Lomsko and others.
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
We have an avenue in the eastern side of istanbul called baghdad avenue for the very same reason.
mao_dze_dun@reddit
If I am not mistaken, the rule of thumb is if it's pre-WWI, it's referred to as Tsarigrad. If it's post WWI - Istanbul.
Sufficient-Exam-189@reddit
In Russia too. I've only heard this name in fairy tales.
the-joatmon@reddit
just a bit context: some people falsely think that turks intentionally changed the name of the city, in reality it’s just a derived form of the how locals used to call it (eis tin polin). the name “istanbul” itself doesn’t have any meaning in turkish just like other examples as smyrna:izmir, iconum:konya, trebizond:trabzon, tessalonica:selanik, cyprus:kibris etc. vowel harmony system in turkish language makes difficult to pronounce foreign words, so like in telephone game foreign words become deformed as easier to pronounce turkish way.
Nflnbafootball@reddit
Ok nobody in Kosovo except the Serbs call it Tsarograd
FlorianBellicus@reddit
I call it Old Stamboul.
BlackKachan@reddit
Sivas
overbardiche@reddit
If it ever becomes Constantinople again I will smear feces throughout all the mosques in the city
tawhite2@reddit
i have never heard anyone call it Tsarigrad out of the topic of history in Serbia. We call it Istanbul here, but rarely Stambol
RaulRene@reddit
No one calls it Constantinopol in Romanian except for when talking about the old Constantinopole
Aggorf12345@reddit
Istanbul of course
Franz_Ferdinand02@reddit
why of course i call it kurdstinople, the ancient kurdish city, the biggest city of the ancienr wesr kurdistan
Prod_Meteor@reddit
Παλιδικιαμασθανε 😄
Thrilalia@reddit
There's only one acceptable name. Byzantion.
AnotherAndrei@reddit
Romanian here. In my 22 years, I have never heard from a romanian "Constantinople" said before. Only saw it like this in historical context
Zhidezoe@reddit
I have never heard "Tsarigrad" in Kosovo
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
Carigrad (Slovenija)
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
No we don’t. Everyone is Slovenia says Istanbul.
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
?
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
Tvoja učiteljica ima prav glede štirih imen. Ampak Istanbul je tujka. Če misli, da uradno ime ni Carigrad raje zamenjaj učiteljico.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Noben v Sloveniji ne uporablja zares Carigrad in to dobro ves. V sodobni vsakodnevni rabi je Istanbul dalec pogostejsi in standarden izraz. Ja Carigrad je staroslovenska beseda ampak je danes precej arhaicna. Ce ti pase jo uporabljaj, sam ne se pa pretvarjat, da je to neka norma v Sloveniji.
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
Dva od treh Slovencev v tem subredditu sva napisala, da je Carigrad. Malo ti je logika šibka očitno, ne? Najbrž ni čisto res kar trdiš, glede na očitna dejstva.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Preberi se enkrat kaj je ta oseba napisala: da gre za slovansko ime. Ne da tudi ona to dejansko uporablja. Malo ti je logika sibka ocitno, ne?
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
"Motíš se, to sem vedela. Ti si prvi komentiral. )) I mean yes you were first to say this." ni moja logika sibka. Ti si ocitno funkcionalno nepismen tudi.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
In kje tocno je napisala da to uporablja?
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
Glej, ne da se mi več... Ne vem zakaj misliš, da ti bom screenshote pošiljal ali kaj? Ko ti ne moreš niti poklikat na linke. Iskreno, moje sožalje. Misli si kar si hočeš. To je moje zadnje sporočilo. Carigrad rečemo, ne Istanbul, pa Dunaj, ne Vienna, pa tako naprej... Nisem jaz tu, da bi te šolal, niti nisem tu, da se s kreteni ukvarjam. Srečno!
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Noben ne rece Carigrad in to dobro ves. Odpri SSKJ pa ne sanjaj. Pa poklic na Soncek al pa Kompas ce te v Carigrad odpeljejo.
Predlagam en google search: izlet v Istanbul vs izlet v Carigrad in primerjaj zadetke.
Moje sozalje, da zivis v taki zblodi. Zal ti ni pomoci.
GlitteringLocality@reddit
Beat me to it
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
??
GlitteringLocality@reddit
The Slavic name for Constantinople
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
Ja, po slovensko se reče Carigrad: https://fran.si/iskanje?View=1&Query=Carigrad. Ne vem kaj misliš z "Beat me to it". Nisem jaz tu zato, da bi tebe učil slovenščino.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
To je samo eno od starih imen in ni vec v uporabi. Pri uri zgodovine se naucimo da obstajajo stiri imena za to mest: Istanbul, Carigrad, Kostantinopel in Bizanc.
GlitteringLocality@reddit
Motíš se, to sem vedela. Ti si prvi komentiral. )) I mean yes you were first to say this.
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
Ok. Well... thanks for the downvotes anyway.
GlitteringLocality@reddit
That was not me. It was just misunderstanding.
Far_Leg_6452@reddit
-adult-swim-@reddit
Its nobody's business but the Turks..
Haunting_Resource_74@reddit
It's more like Sambul in Ukranian
kyleria_@reddit
We must call Athena as Asena in response XD <3
Final-Nebula-7049@reddit
in turkish we call it dasi dopragi altun sehur
QuarianGuy@reddit
Real OGs call it Nova Roma
Majestic_Potato_5408@reddit
Miklagard gang
Ok-Patience6865@reddit
The name "Tsargrad" appears only in history books. In Russia, 100% of the population says "Стамбул" (Stambul)".
dionyziz@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XlO39kCQ-8
PaperSweet9983@reddit
Love this song lol
DrustanAstrophel@reddit
Came looking for this
Brisk907@reddit
Yes!
Rexxittr7889@reddit
hadi be
alpidzonka@reddit
In Serbian I call it Istanbul, and in some weird way in modern-day Serbian the way you pronounce it often sounds like "Istambul". Sometimes I say Carigrad, Konstantinopolj, Stambol and sometimes I pronounce it like in Turkish with the accent on "stan". Depends on the context. Any Serb would understand any of these variations.
moisthotdogg@reddit
We call it Istanbul
Polka_Tiger@reddit
With a phone. It "what do you call" not "how".
fucer_who_loves_cats@reddit
Stamboll
Nancy_Raegan_Minge@reddit
I think Russian call it stambul
iMoac@reddit
Sadly the city is infested over the last 500 years as is most of Anatolia but an invasive specifies.
Checky_3rd@reddit
Representing the Romanians here. In our own country, informally, we call it Constantinople, formally, when it's legal terms speaking or speaking to a general audience, we use the political legal term of Istanbul.
So basically, in our brain, its Istanbul, in our hearts, it's Constantinople.
HumanMan00@reddit
Dont Romania and Moldova also use Tzarigrad at times?
_Winter-Wolf_@reddit
No?
HumanMan00@reddit
Subcarpati - Balada Lui Gruia
"..Or banii ţi i-ai gătat, Or ţi-i gândul la-nsurat, Or ţi-i dor de Ţarigrad? Or ţi-i dor de Ţarigrad..?"
I heard it in this song.
_Winter-Wolf_@reddit
I guess they used it, but no one really uses it, sometimes Constatinople is used, but just in historical or religious context
HumanMan00@reddit
Maybe - but you went away from having Slavic vocabulary in 19-20th century. The question is what happenede before that.
AlanderKohenel@reddit
In some Christmas carols, yes.
HumanMan00@reddit
We also dont use Tzarigrad in modern times.
vintage_cycles@reddit
We don’t. Also, I never heard anyone using Constantinople in Moldova when referring to the modern city, it’s normally used in historical textbooks or history-related discussions.
PhysicalMacaron2614@reddit
Maybe in moldova because of russian rule but in romania never heard it
Surfer_Rick@reddit
Constantinople, forever.
Wojewodaruskyj@reddit
Константиноград. "Konstantine's city".
ElLoboTurco@reddit
this map also doubles as a butt-hurt-o-meter
Wojewodaruskyj@reddit
Царгород. [tsargorod], ""Emperor's city".
LifeAcanthopterygii6@reddit
Lemme introduce you to his super cool song called Isztambul: https://youtu.be/cLHlwpclwmc?is=uKPVDqo7a_qIhCBq
PaperSweet9983@reddit
That's nobody's business but the Turks 🎵
BalkanTrekkie2@reddit
Carigrad is so classy.
44-47-25_N_20-28-5-E@reddit
To be honest I use>perfer Konstantinopolj rather somehow, so i find this list inaccurate-we should be all colours 😁
Stverghame@reddit
Carigrad always sounded so badass, like THE main city in some fantasy novel
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
In Türkiye we call it f*ckin' traffic
Objective-Expert771@reddit
Cyprus should be half red half blue