A few questions about ASA 101
Posted by Chromecoast@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 32 comments
Hi all!
I had a few kind of scattered questions about ASA 101 - rather than make a bunch of threads I thought I'd drop them here.
For context - I'm a complete beginner (47 y/o male) . I've been on sail boats, I've been reading books and watching videos, but I have zero actual experience. I'm starting from scratch. My ultimate goal is Bluewater sailing, but I'm not getting ahead of myself. I'm thinking of a Catalina 22 or 25 to learn on, probably sailing the Chesapeake a bit, before venturing offshore when the timing is right and I'm sufficiently prepared. I'm in no great hurry.
There is a new accredited ASA school very close to home. (I believe this is their first year in operation). I'm considering taking my 101 - basic keelboat course there. (and if all goes well, the 103 and 104...) All courses take place aboard their 38ft boat. Annapolis and Cambridge are also within a 90 minute drive, so I have options.
Now, questions: Answer one, answer all, I'm all ears.
-Any thoughts on learning ASA 101 in a group setting? I doubt there will be a large group, but if I'm understanding correctly, it sounds like I won't be the only student aboard.
-Any thoughts on learning on a 38ft boat? Maybe one day far down the road I'll want to sail something that big, but I was thinking more along the lines of 25-27. Are there any pros or cons to learning on (what I consider) a large boat?
- I also have access to a small sailing school where I can learn on Flying Scots and catamarans on the shallow bay. (Not ASA 101, just dinghy sailing skills) Is there any reason to/not to do both? Is there any advantage or disadvantage to doing one before the other?
- Are there any additional questions I should be asking before I sign up for a course?
Always appreciate your thoughtful answers! Thank you everyone....
Farts_Are_Funn@reddit
I took ASA 101 on a 38' Hunter. There were 4 students plus the instructor on the boat. We rotated positions around the cockpit frequently and we all got plenty of time at every position. It worked out great and I have no complaints at all about the quality of instruction I received. It was a great deal of fun.
As I recall, we spent about half the time on the water sailing and about half the time on more "classroom" kind of instruction, but a lot of that time was walking around the boatyard looking at different boats and learning the differences. The class was at a decent sized marina in mid October in Virginia, so they had lots of boats on the hard at the time.
MackJantz@reddit
Don’t discount dinghy sailing skills. Some stay you have to learn more when you don’t have a motor to bail you out of your mistakes.
indigoinblue@reddit
Sailing/racing now for 20 years…echoing what others are recommending about learning on dinghies. I learned on everything but those and wish I had. A Flying Scot is a good boat to learn on but even smaller is better. Try to find an opti or a 420 to experience.
If you can sail a small boat, you can sail everything larger than it.
Enjoy your new hobby. You never know where it will take you!
DarkVoid42@reddit
its worthless. go get your ICC with CEVNI instead. you will learn a lot more and more importantly its a credential recognized everywhere. IYT worldwide should have a school close to you.
MissingGravitas@reddit
I know you love this concept, but most people (particularly in the US) are unlikely to have any interest or occasion to be boating on European inland waterways. The CEVNI portion is going to be a complete waste, either because it would never be used, or would be entirely forgotten by the time it's needed.
The other issue is that within the US the chances of someone having an IYT school nearby are extremely low, so the more practical option is to take ASA or US Sailing courses which are also generally recognized by countries for chartering in places like the Med.
Since the ICC itself isn't a training program, you can always fly out to a place that offers assessments.
DarkVoid42@reddit
the CEVNI tests you on navigating in rivers which the USA has and we also have the same identical markings on our waterways. shocking that international markings are .... international. i know.
MissingGravitas@reddit
Well, except for when they aren't.
The CEVNI regulations and the US Inland Rules are two different things, as are the various markings, etc. For the EU, marks at sea and inland waters would indeed correspond to IALA standards, which are international, but on inland waterways they are instead based on CEVNI. In contrast the US follows COLREGS with minor modifications.
Chromecoast@reddit (OP)
Can you expand on "It's worthless"? It seems like I'd learn to sail.....
fjzappa@reddit
ASA tracks do not lead to the ICC. ICC is needed for chartering in many locations outside of the US.
ASA can help you learn. A Sunfish teaches you faster for less money. Basic sail trim. Connections from sail to butt to tiller are learned.
Buy a Sunfish on a Thursday. Learn how to sail over the weekend and sell it the next week. Move up to a Flying Scot or similar, and spend a year developing more skills on boat balance. Then move up to a 25-footer or so. Learn docking and anchoring. Night time sailing and navigating.
Now you are better equipped than 80% of the people chartering in the BVI.
DarkVoid42@reddit
yes we all want to learn to sail. you dont learn to sail on a 38 foot boat. you learn to sit around comfortably on a 38 foot boat while a lecturer blathers on about sailing.
you want value ? you need a boat where you are the master at all times. you are responsible for steering, sail control, navigation and more importantly you need to do it for hours to become good at it which means it needs to be cheap.
so go do 3 months of dinghy sailing, do another month of catamaran/hobie sailing. by the end you will know how to sail. now you want to control a big sailing boat. so go do ICC with CEVNI. you will learn how to control a big boat. and you will learn under practical exam conditions where control counts. and you will know all the theory because youre going to do 2 exams where you will be graded on it.
ReeferSkipper@reddit
Mate this guy has zero sailing experience, is asking where to learn the basics, and you are telling him to first go for an ICC through CEVNI? Cruising in EU/Greece is not nearly OP's next move. He might not even like sailing.
Coastal day sailing a Catalina 22 on the east coast of USA is OP's next move. ASA 101 is perfect for this. 103-104 are perfect if he wants to step up to 30'+ boats and get into coastal passage making.
I can assert this because its exactly what I did \~12 years back and I now have several thousands of nautical miles under the keel of my Cal 25, and then my Catalina 34 respectively on the great lakes.
An ICC would be my move if I was keen on blowing $10k on a holiday in Greece, which I am not, because I cant afford it. I have a 34' boat to pay for here!
th3centrist@reddit
take the class, put one foot in front of the other. you can do and learn 99% of ASA 101 coursework on ChatGPT to pass the test. learn the knots - buy some rope and practice at home and at your desk.
a 38' boat is great. not too big, not too small, you'll get the hang of it in a weekend. sail with as many more experienced people than you, let them know you want to be coached hard, take it in, get better
I learned through ASA in San Francisco through ASA 106. 101, 103, 104, 106. I have sailed all over the world and it's been one of the coolest additions to my life I've ever had
LieutJimDangle@reddit
I wanted to learn how to sail just like you and didn't know anything. I took the ASA, 101/102, 103, 104 on a 40' Hunter. Few years later I single hand a 50' cat.
ghettoregular@reddit
Start on the smaller boat first. The smaller the boat the more and clearer feedback you get from what you are doing right or wrong. You don't need to do 10 hours on the smaller boats. 5 hours is enough before you move to the 38 foot boat. You'll really have a lot of fun on the small boats.
Mehfisto666@reddit
Every boat you buy ans sell to buy a bigger one will be a huge loss of money. Courses are good, but what makes a sailor is the experience. Get a boat and go out there. Do you want to go for some no hassle summer sailing? Get a small dinghy you can carry around easily and get out there.
Do you want to go for multi day trips and eventually go offshore and are not worried about costs or marina places? Get a keelboat and go out there.
Experience on a dinghy or 2 days out on courses will not make you any less anxious when you will have to take out your own 36 feeter for the first time.
If your goal is to sail a big keelboat get a big keelboat and make experience on that one.
T2VW@reddit
Do want you can but get good sailing solo on a dinghy. It’s just you and the boat. Immediate feedback to your actions. And, it is a lot of fun. Learning at its finest.
SailTango@reddit
First of all, taking ASA courses is a great idea. Second, the teacher is more important than the boat. Make sure the teacher has a Coast Guard license. Finally, don't be surprised i the other people in the class are far less prepared than you are. Most of them will never sail again, but a group setting is still fun. Enjoy!
frankwemissyou@reddit
Personally I would not take 101 in a 38 foot boat. It’s too heavy and without a tiller you’ll have zero feel for when the boat is trimmed up properly and moving well. As a beginner you want to sense what’s going on in the interaction between wind speed, direction, sail trim and weight placement. This really builds situational awareness, you learn to read the wind on the water and on your face, and anticipate the next adjustment to harness that energy. The 101 should be in maybe a 20 footer and if you have access to a 15-18 foot dinghy with a centerboard for skill building afterwards, even better. Save the 38 footers for 103
e1p1@reddit
Former ASA instructor here, I agree. I learned on small Dinghies, then worked my way up to 22 and 25 footers. And beyond.
A small boat in 10 to 15 knots will prepare you for a 25-ft plus boat in 30 knots. With a lot less danger.
A small boat and very light winds will still communicate with you and you can still learn proper sale trim and weight distribution etc.
A big boat and light wind, you can develop really bad habits that will not serve you well when the wind picks up.
One summer I taught a kids dinghy camp at a small 10 acre lake. Some of the big boat instructors from the main School came down to toodle around in the Capri 14s. They came in with their fancy jackets and condescending attitudes, and the ones who had only learned on 25 ft plus keelboats proceeded to get totally out of control and capsized everywhere when the wind kicked up. Most of my kids (10 -13) outsailed them. Fun times.
Novel-Atmosphere8995@reddit
Most advice I've seen favors learning on dinghies. One thing I don't see mentioned often though is asking how fit you are? Getting started from scratch can be tough on your knees and fitness getting in and out of the boat. It's totally worth it and the most fun but something to be prepared for. I'm seeing folks drop out of our dinghy class because of it but they are mostly older and I hate to see that discourage you. I don't mean to say that you have to be in great shape to do it, but just know that it's part of the learning process on a dinghy. After a few weeks you won't notice! Anyway, I agree with the comment about this boat being too big to start, however, it will be a comfortable experience. I think the dinghy sailing prepares you much more for thinking fast and building wind knowledge and muscle memory, all good things when a day out turns complicated. Going out as much as possible is key, so I would do as much as you have time and money for and don't overthink it!
MissingGravitas@reddit
Work pants that have pockets for kneepads can help here; you don't need to buy fancy pads, even some basic foam ones like these can work. (I don't like the pads with straps; they're annoying to get on/off and can get uncomfortable.)
Irreverent_Alligator@reddit
For your context: having never sailed I took ASA 101 in a class of 4 last July on a Colgate 26, then bought a Catalina 30 in November which I have now sailed a handful of times.
I really appreciated having classmates. Myself, 3 other students, and the instructor meant 5 in the boat. The 4 students each had a different job while the instructor mostly watched and gave feedback. We regularly changed roles so everyone got to do everything and we could focus on one task at a time. Also the class is 2 days where you’re mostly hanging out and sailing, so more people to talk to is good.
I was glad we were on a 26 foot boat and it was pretty easy to step up to my Catalina 30 from there, but starting on a 38 footer sounds nuts to me. And I would be very afraid docking that for the first time. Docking the 26 with instruction was easy, docking my 30 on my own is pretty doable. In my opinion, ASA101 should always be taken on a boat in the ASA 101 range. The course certifies you to skipper a keelboat up to 26 feet. Plus ASA boats are typically tiller steered. I think you’d benefit from starting with a tiller and on a smaller and more responsive boat. It helps you feel small adjustments. When boats get big enough it’s hard to learn because it doesn’t respond immediately to your inputs.
If I were you I’d contact the school to confirm they actually do 101 on the 38 footer because that would surprise me.
MissingGravitas@reddit
This. Many smaller schools might only have one or two boats, and thus teach everything on them, but it really should be a smaller boat like this. For example, US Sailing's position is: "It is recommended that Basic Keelboat Certification courses and examinations be conducted on 18′ to 27′ daysailing sloop-rigged keelboats with tiller steering."
For OP, I think doing some of those dinghy courses first would provide a very helpful foundation.
Hardwood_Lump_BBQ@reddit
My recommendation, take the 101 in the group setting. They are accredited, so doesn’t matter if they’re a new place, the instructor is qualified. Group is great as there are questions asked by others that you might not think of. You’ll also rotate positions in the boat from helm to jib and have an opportunity to be in charge and crew under supervision. Directing and being directed by other inexperienced individuals will make you a better captain of the boat.
I think your size of 22-25 is a great idea. After getting my 101 on an 18, I bought a Catalina 25. The theyory and practice is the same, you just don’t get the immediate feedback as you would on say a laser. The bigger the boat, the heavier and less responsive it will be especially docking. Slow is pro, but you have to balance between a safe speed and enough speed to have the rudder maneuver the boat. It’s a skill you only develop with time, and every boat has its own feel and tendencies.
Infamous-Adeptness71@reddit
Most important thing for learning to sail....sail!
Sailboat+water+wind=a valuable sailing experience.
ASA 101 is typically a few students.
Basically with all these questions...it's a wash. In one setting you'll learn more of something. In another setting you'll learn more of...something else.
I don't think I'd recommend taking 101 twice. Look around for what they recently introduced as "102"...which is kind of a refinement of techniques from 101.
FailDad@reddit
I did ASA101 at Northern Virginia Sailing School last year. Small group, at most 3 other people at a time (4 in person classes). It was enough I think to get my feet wet. I too, am new, and will be learning on the Potomac/ Chesapeake bay on a Pearson 323 I recently purchased. There is a fun little sailing game on steam that actually taught me a lot outside of the course and books (that were recommended by fellow Redditors in various threads from this sub). I think you’ll be okay, as I think I will be as well
ReeferSkipper@reddit
I did 101,103,104 all on a Beneteau 411 (41') on Marco Island Florida.
\~12 years back I did 101 in spring time. Went home to Chicago and spent the summer sailing on a Cal 25, went back to Florida in the fall and did the 103-104 liveaboard stuff.
Now I own a Catalina 34 and cruise it on the Great Lakes in the summer. ASA 101 gave me everything I needed to know about sail trim and best practices. I would have rather done it on a smaller boat, but the skills transferred well and I really worked it out over a few months sailing the Cal 25 around.
103-104 positively gave me a comprehensive overview of passage making and boat systems. The books that come with the classes are bibles full of great information. Pretty much everything you need to know.
Add to that most Caribbean Charter outfits want ASA certs (not ICC as mentioned in other posts) - the ASA classes are worth it.
I should add that ASA classes are simple certifications; not legal credentials. They are not a license and they do now necessarily qualify you in anyway; the amount of knowledge you glean from these courses is self-deterministic; you get whatever out of it that you put into it essentially.
I for sure got my $1200 worth out of the ASA courses. I'm sure the cost is higher now but man, I learned everything I needed to in order to start my journey.
Foreign-Warning62@reddit
I think conventional wisdom is, if you’re physically up for it, learn on a small boat first. You get much more immediate feedback from adjustment to tiller or sheet, so it’s easier to tell what’s happening. And you generally have fewer electronics to rely on so you do have to learn to read the wind.
I’ve been sailing for about 13 years and never taken any of the courses. I got started on a Sunfish and made friends with people with bigger boats and started crewing for them for races. So I don’t really have any suggestions regarding the 101 course, but if it were me I would start on the Flying Scot.
blithetorrent@reddit
Couldn't agree more. Been sailing for 60 years now. I learned on a 10' dinghy. My father and I actually used to go on road trips with an 8' dinghy on the roof of the car and sailed it in all sorts of bodies of water. Trust me, you will understand the true dynamics of lateral plane, live ballast, sail trim etc etc five times more clearly and much more quickly with an unballasted dinghy than you will on a keel boat that does most of the work for you. I think a Sunfish is a pretty great one to start with because they can be fast in the right conditions, you can capsize them with zero downsides, they're very stable, they have a super simple, low stress rig that won't scare you.. blah blah blah.
foxhollow@reddit
I don't think there's a wrong way to do it.
I started in my 40s just like you. I took ASA 101 in a group (4 total students) and it was fine. Two of the students were ill prepared, but it didn't effect my experience in any meaningful way. We were on a 26' boat with a tiller and outboard. Eventually I took 103, 104 and 114 and I've since chartered in lots of fun locations around the world. I've made plenty of mistakes but never got anyone hurt or damaged a boat in a meaningful way.
Years later I got certified to take dinghys out from a club on a local lake. There was no instruction and I passed the checkout sail on the first try. Docking without an auxiliary motor for the first time under pressure was a little nerve wracking.
I wouldn't overthink it. Just pick the first course that sounds the most fun and go for it.
BoatDogGirl@reddit
I love that you're taking up sailing in your 40s. I did too and ended up cruising 8 years on a Pacific Seacraft 34. I don't think you can make bad choices. But to your questions.
I'd ask how many students will be on the boat. It's not how I learned (I began at a sailing club and did the ASA courses as a charter on Lake Ontario). But I don't see any reason a good instructor wouldn't be able to manage a small class of perhaps 4-6 people and provide a good experience.
If your goal is eventually cruising, I think starting out on a larger boat will be fine. As long as the instructor rotates students around different tasks, you'll pick up the skills you'll use on a smaller day sailor when you find one. One good thing about being a beginner on a larger boat is that it's less tender. If you're subject to seasickness or fear of heeling, it will help get you started without the worst experience.
I have never sailed a small dinghy. My first lesson at the Cornell sailing club was aboard an 18 foot Pearson Commander. I'd like to try it. I believe dinghy sailing helps develop good sailing skills, but cruising is about more than just being a good sailor. In fact, I used to joke that I was a cruiser, not a sailor. I used to be horrified at how close the racers in the Severn River sailed by. There's something about sailing your full time home that makes you far more cautious than a day sailor. 🤣
I am glad that I learned to sail on a boat without an engine. Many cruisers do not know how to dock under sail. I was grateful for that experience.
BTW, my "home" port was Cambridge, MD. You're in a great spot to learn a lot. I'd also recommend attending the Annapolis Sailboat Show and eventually taking courses through the Cruiser's University. I also took a great diesel engine class at the Maryland School of Sailing while I was cruising.
Good luck. You're embarking on a wonderful path. I promise you won't regret it.
flyingron@reddit
The courses take various formats. A lot of it is book work using the text "Sailing Made Stupid" or whatever it is called. You can work through the end of chapter reviews yourself, though some have classes for it.
You also will need to spend a little time learning knots.
Then you'll want to have some hands on sailing. Most of the group classes allow you to rotate through various positions, helm, raising/lowering sails, trimming/tacking, etc... The downside to larger boats is that it may encourage larger groups that reduce the amount of hands on time you get.
Who are you thinking about going with? I seriously considered Waypoints in Annapolis for a bit.