The Next Mercedes-AMG SL Will Likely Abandon the Base Four-Cylinder Engine
Posted by Anchor_Aways@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 100 comments
Posted by Anchor_Aways@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 100 comments
NarcoticCow@reddit
Oh no! What will my dentist drive now??
Jake0024@reddit
People who wanted the SL to stay under 4000 lbs is my guess. That ship has sailed now lol
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
lol the R129 is well over 4000 lbs.
Jake0024@reddit
The 6-cyl R129 was 3800 lbs and I don't understand this idea of "an older car used to be heavy too so nobody should care about weight now"
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Because in the 1990s, the R129 was a fat bastard that was optimised to make you feel like the Wolf of Wall Street. So the current model being fat is in line with what the SL has been since the 1970s, it's in line with the SL65 Black Series, and it's in line with the R129.
Jake0024@reddit
Cool
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Glad I could explain it to you!
Jake0024@reddit
I'm not
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
What's there not to understand? Why should people care whether or not a car is light if it's never been a light car?
The fact is a V8 R129 and a V8 R232 (with AWD and turbos, to boot) weigh basically the same and that's a heck of an accomplishment. No SL buyer gives a shit about whether it's 3800 pounds vs 4300.
Jake0024@reddit
The fact it's been heavy for a while is, again, not an excuse to not care about making it even heavier
AwesomeBantha@reddit
I agree, one of the things I love about my dad’s R129 500SL is that everything feels heavy and solid. The door thunk is incredibly satisfying. The trunk closes nicely. There’s a lot of heft to it.
I got in an E500, worth at least 5x as much as an SL with the same engine, and yes, it’s a car with a different purpose, and I’m sure it drives completely differently, but I got out of the E500 thinking “man, the SL sure is a way nicer place to be”.
narwhal_breeder@reddit
A silver 911 Carrera 4S PDK like every other Dentist.
It will see >4000rpm exactly 4 times in 7 years - all accidents.
Melodic-Temporary113@reddit
Dentist pay is legit out of control. These aren’t heart surgeons.
willpc14@reddit
If you think dentists are bad wait until you have to visit the oral surgeon
liqlslip@reddit
Or the dermatologist whose practice primarily does injections and routine skin checks.
strongmanass@reddit
For what dermatologists have to see and treat, give them all the money. There are some skin conditions that will instantly turn your stomach.
Melodic-Temporary113@reddit
Oh, I know. I got kids. But at least they’re cutting fools. Dentists are just looking at X-rays while they tell you shitty jokes and play grab-ass with the hygienist.
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
lmfaoooo
NarcoticCow@reddit
lol @ all accidents
tiagojpg@reddit
funny AND true
gosukhaos@reddit
European markets that tax displacement. Just like those old sporty Citroen sedans with 1.3 lt 4 bangers in the pre turbo days
Darktrooper007@reddit
If your dentist can afford an AMG SL, he's shearing (not merely fleecing) his patients.
Recoil42@reddit
If your dentist can't afford an AMG SL, he's not a very good dentist.
BigDaddyDumperSquad@reddit
Or he's not a good gambler.
UncleFumbleBuck@reddit
Or he has too many ex wives.
NarcoticCow@reddit
Honestly sounds like a good way to experience a brand new sl amg for cheap.
Although I’m not sure if the 4 cyl would be worth it over the used market
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
Dentists who own their practice are easily pulling in at least $400k, and likely much more. A dentist in their 50s or 60s can easily afford an AMG SL.
Business-Animal4966@reddit
There are only amg SLs now
strongmanass@reddit
People in markets with heavy displacement taxes.
chowi_69@reddit
All SLs are now AMGs
jameson71@reddit
Why are there no more non AMG SL?
IAmWellBehaved@reddit
The SL model moved entirely under the AMG umbrella for the current generation, like the GT and GT 4-Door, so it is marketed as an AMG product regardless of configuration and only uses AMG variations of engines in its lineup.
The sort of awkward thing is that with the second generation GT and this latest SL, they are effectively coupe and convertible versions of the same vehicle, sort of like the Boxter and Cayman for years. So I wouldn't be shocked in the future if they get more and more simple and eventually even move into a singular model line (being just called the SL or SL GT or whatever), but who knows.
jameson71@reddit
I hate this because being AMG takes absolutely everything related to maintenance to another price level above Mercedes and I always wanted an SL.
Like most cars these days I am just probably better off looking for one 20+ years old or more because everything made less than 10 years ago was designed to make it to the end of the warranty period and recycled.
IAmWellBehaved@reddit
I wonder if that'd more be related to the engine/powertrain here? As in, I'd be mildly surprised if a SL43 or SL55 costed noticeably more on maintenance than like a S580 with a comparable MSRP and positioning in the Mercedes lineup.
One benefit is I think this generation is the first about 20 years to not have costly hydraulic suspension with high repair costs. Hydraulic or air suspension on cars of this caliber is always a red flag for me with regard to long term ownership.
jameson71@reddit
Nearly everything down to the brake pads are more expensive "performance" versions.
The fancy (shitty) suspensions are exactly the type of thing that was always on the AMG models but was an option if anything on the Mercedes versions.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
Putting that engine in that car was an embarrassment to both the SL and AMG.
TripleShotPls@reddit
Agreed.
ArmoredGoat@reddit
Wait until you see an battery powered version lol
Less-Mushroom@reddit
Considering SLs have never had a price floor of any kind, and it's kind of a reliable powertrain, someone is going to love buying one for $35k in a few years.
Its not really even that slow it's just wrong for the car and devalued the lineup by even existing.
FatMoFoSho@reddit
It’s me, Im the someone
Training-Expert5598@reddit
Same. They can make great power. They just sound like a forklift. If you can keep the noise down, they are fairly fun engines.
FatMoFoSho@reddit
100% i used to own a 2014 CLA 45. That little 4 banger was one of the most fun cars ive had. Turbo lag on it was crazy and it didnt have the most natural feel to drive but it bucked like a mule and made a bunch of fun noise while doing it lmao
tiagojpg@reddit
My friend had a crazy tune, down pipe and some mods on a 2016 A45. That thing WAS CRAZY. Pushing more than 400hp on such a small car, it was an awesome drive. The noise did become a bit too much with the downpipe though. He’d get followed by police everywhere, other GTIs and stuff always drove by him and egging him on for a race… he eventually sold it.
Before that he had a 1000hp Barracuda AAR in California… quite the guy.
FatMoFoSho@reddit
Those things get fkn LOUD. It was honestly lowkey embarassing to drive on winter mornings, cold starting it in the parking garage of my complex im surprised it didnt set off some car alarms lmao.
IAmWellBehaved@reddit
Honestly, yes. To just set aside the 4-cylinder sound and image for a moment, going to RWD and a 2.0T lifts hundreds of pounds off the car, and mainly off the front. I bet they're pretty decent to drive. Yeah it's an automatic and all so it's not a chonky Miata or anything but probably pretty sharp and yet refined for the daily commute.
But that 4-cylinder noise well into six figures, eh.
leedle1234@reddit
Are the turbo 4s in these different from the ones in they put in all the crossovers with the notorious valve sealing issues?
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
How is it any worse than the 190SL or the shitass 2.8L M112 in the R129?
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
Eh, the SL 280 wasn't sold in North America, just like the SL 43 should've only been offered in markets that pay a hefty displacement or efficiency tax. But agree it's certainly not the first time MB has put a very underwhelming engine in a "premium" model.
ducky21@reddit
It's not, but people get extremely hung up on badges.
TripleShotPls@reddit
A four-cylinder never had any business being under the hood of an SL.
varezhka11@reddit
And I was afraid that they were going to replace it with a three-cylinder next. Phew!
maxlax02@reddit
I for one am shocked no one wanted to spend $100k+ for a 4 cylinder Mercedes.
Who in their right mind would buy this over a convertible 911, or a BMW Z4 that’s half the cost?
autobauss@reddit
It's being canned as it does not meet eyro7, at least read something before commenting
_galaga_@reddit
You'd think the LC500 would own that segment with it's price vs the 911 or SL, reliability, design, V8 sound, etc. Probably some German luxury brand image voodoo going on in that market segment.
Medical-Gate-9978@reddit
6-figure buyers mostly want the right badge and the Lexus, unfortunately, does not have the right badge compared to Mercedes or Porsche.
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
It also didn't help that Lexus dealers in the US had no idea how to sell the LC. I tried to buy one. It was a nightmare.
hermitcraftfan135@reddit
I mean I’d wager that a lot of people in the target market for these sorts of cars don’t really want to be going around all the time making lots of noise lol. Sure, some do, but I know I wouldn’t and I’m sure the “retired dentist” stereotype is probably a bit more reserved
_galaga_@reddit
Yeah, that's a good point although Lexus did offer the hybrid LC500h without the raucous V8 noise if that was a key blocker. Sold like leftover salmon if memory serves. That's partly why I think it's an image thing more than anything with the SL.
strongmanass@reddit
The base 911 cabrio is significantly more expensive and a very different car. And the Z4 doesn't have rear seats.
A_Right_Proper_Lad@reddit
Do we actually count the SL as having rear seats even though no human can fit back there unless they're a double-amputee?
Also a Convertible M4 is also similar money to the base SL.
strongmanass@reddit
The seats are still useful. You can take your little (grand)children out for ice cream in the summer (SL owners are old), your dog can sit in the back, you can take friends home for dinner if driver and front passenger move their seats up. Everyone's uncomfortable, but it's not for long and the people in the back save a taxi/Uber ride.
The M4 is pretty harsh and is a 3 series interior. As sinful as Mercedes interior design is these days, the SL has better materials. So between the two you give up either performance or interior quality.
hbs18@reddit
It's the perfect garage companion for your BMW 725d.
Jokes aside, in Europe at least 9 out of 10 people buying these are retired old people who don't care about the engine at all. They'd buy the Renault diesel engine version of the SL if it was offered.
slashkehrin@reddit
The same crowd that wouldn't know where the engine in a 911 is, i.e 80% of modern Porsche customers.
andrewia@reddit
The four-cylinder was probably intended for markets where high displacement is taxed worse. I guess they decided there are buyers and other markets that also wanted looks and didn't care about performance.
Jah348@reddit
Nothing says large luxury barge roadster quite like a buzzy four cylinder.
strongmanass@reddit
It's a good option in displacement-taxed markets. I have no idea why it was offered anywhere else.
UslashMKIV@reddit
I understand that the 4cyl is technically a better 2L solution than a de-stroked 6, but it just feels like an i6 de-stroked to 2L would have so much prestige over the 4cyl that it’d be worth it, plus you could make it rev really high which would be fun. Of course physics has to ruin everything, fewer cylinders means less internal friction and higher efficiency, and efficiency is everything now.
AsparagusDifficult89@reddit
Right. A small-displacement oversquare I6 engine doesn’t have enough use cases to justify itself in most contexts, especially because modern emissions standards would penalize that sort of thing.
It’s also been a long time since the SL-Class was a purebred sports car. It is more of a grand tourer, so what people want is relaxed power and torque, not a revvy racing engine.
But it would be interesting.
BuckManscape@reddit
Oh man, Clarkson would’ve had a field day with that one.
Shallow_wanderer@reddit
Starting to suspect maybe Top Gear ended at a cosmically correct time before cars truly started going downhill lol
Arctic-Material611@reddit
Clarkson did say he is old and tired, but also he sees most modern cars as quite boring and they are like appliances such as a dishwasher
Shallow_wanderer@reddit
I think since around the mid-2010's, we kinda figured cars out, and everything's just been optimized into a sea of 4cyl crossovers and giant hybrid SUV's
Would explain why 2010's cars don't feel as dated as cars from the 2000's on back
timetravelerfrom2027@reddit
Alternatively, cars went downhill because Top Gear hosts aged out? Hmmm.
A_Right_Proper_Lad@reddit
Not sure I'd call the SL a "barge" or the AMG 4-cyl "buzzy".
Does it still feel like the wrong engine for the car though? Yes, I'd say so.
Jake0024@reddit
What better way to shake the "barge roadster" stereotype than to swap out a 4-cyl for a hybrid 6-cyl
AsparagusDifficult89@reddit
As it should. A four-cylinder turbo at that price point and for that format of car is egregious, and Mercedes-Benz’ ability to charge out the ass for a bare minimum standard (or not even) is second only to Porsche. You have to spend so fucking much on one of their cars to make it palatable, or take a barebones lease special.
itsthatarchiguy@reddit
…. and will get an 3-cylinder instead. Just Joking…hopefully.
LuxuryCarConnoisseur@reddit
And nothing of value was lost.
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
It’s almosr a definite thing lol. The 4 cylinder it usss currently will not comply with EU regulations after this year ends
bigloser42@reddit
What is going on with Mercedes that they can’t get an engine introduced in 2019 to pass euro 7 laws? BMW has already gotten its entire engine lineup Euro 7 compliant, even the S58 and S68.
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
I think it’s a matter of their just prioritizing what engines should be regulated where instead of not having the skill. It’s how the facelifted S680 won’t in Europe have a V12 because they didn’t care to meet Europe’s regulations.
bigloser42@reddit
I get that, but it seems like you’d want to prioritize getting your fairly new, commodity 2.0l 4-cylinder euro-7 compliant. This is their bread and butter engine, not the extremely limited luxobarge V12.
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
I could see that make sense with the young age of it but they likely just think it makes more sense to give in their inline 6 instead
bigloser42@reddit
The I6 is not the engine that is in the bulk of their cars. The M264 and its M139 derivative are by a huge margin their most produced engines. Those are the ones that need to be Euro 7 compliant. If they were going to focus all their efforts on one engine, it should have been the highest volume one.
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
That’s true. I think the 2027 43 will probably get a 6 cylinder ànd the c class ànd à class will keep their 5 cylinders because they’ll develop a 4 cylinder for them only ànd the hybrid CLA
tiagojpg@reddit
They’ll probably adopt the HR12 1.2L from the new Clio if it does well. Or even go for the hybrid 1.8L power train too.
tiagojpg@reddit
Cost cutting in lower market cars. The A/CLA/B200 just use Renault’s 1.3L 4cyl. Cheaper to use and it’s a sturdy, proven engine.
alfredadamski@reddit
Seeing the four cylinder SL: I am wondering, would a new Porsche 912 with a four cylinder engine sell? I mean, a 911 with a four cyclinder
_galaga_@reddit
It's been so long since then I don't see how they wouldn't get absolutely roasted for a four cylinder 911 now unless they deleted future plans for the 718 totally and a new 912 took over as the entry level model with a big price cut compared to the 911 (which also ain't going to happen).
alfredadamski@reddit
I guess, Porsche would recommend to just buy a used 911 from the used lot from one of their Porsche dealers.
PEEWUN@reddit
Porsche could manufacture 911-shaped feces and it would sell for a ransom.
alfredadamski@reddit
Quick, someone should convince Porsche to build the 997 911 with a four cylinder engine, update only enough to meet current regulations barely and then sell it for 60k-80k EUR/USD.
PEEWUN@reddit
-Porsche, probably
alfredadamski@reddit
For 45k - 60k EUR you can get a 997 991 with relatively low milage, for 60-80k EUR you can get a nicer one, with less miles. So it would not make any sense for anyone to buy a new, but only "updated" 997 for 120k - 160k EUR/USD.
I am in the perfect age to get a used 911. I am in my early 40s, have no kids, no partner, no pets, no plants and am I am right in my mid-life crisis life phase (with receding hair line, questioning my life and the yadda, yadda rest), and have around 250k EUR saved (some of it invested and on interest carrying accounts). So, I could totally blow around 50k EUR on a totally unnecessary 20 year old Porsche 911. But then I realize, I'd prefer to buy a house or a condo.
Recently, I thought: I feel betrayed. When I was a child, in most US movies, when a character was in his mid-life crisis, he always had lots of money and a well-paid job, was able to buy himself a fast red car and/or a motor-bike, got divorced from his wife and suddenly got a 20 something girl-friend. Where is my six-figure job? Where is my very red and very fast car? Where is my 20 something girl-friend? Where is the wife I can get divorced from? Where are the children that hate me? All those Hollywood lies!
NetworkStatic@reddit
I dont know. I have owned a number of Porsche cars from Cayman S to Macan S and my Carrera GTS ive had for a decade.. I would love to get another Cayman for a daily but the thing stopping me with the 718 is that I really want a special engine in my next daily. 718 with the 4.0 are like $100k Meanwhile I could get an RS3 or TTRS with a very special engine for $65k. It makes the 718 or any Porsche coupe a hard sell unless there is something that makes it superlative somehow. 911 are so expensive now its hard to imagine being a car I would want with a 4 cylinder.
dragonitexy@reddit
A large contingency of people who buy these cars don't know or care about what's under the hood. Personally, I don't believe the SL43 was an affront to God. However, I AM genuinely irked by the GT43 closing in on two tons.
strongmanass@reddit
Eh it's a 2+2 grand touring cabrio. 2 tons is average weight.
UkonFujiwara@reddit
"Because it will be an electric crossover"
cicada_shell@reddit
The first 4 banger SL had about 105hp or around 24lbs per hp. It had a pretty high take rate amongst women. But it also looked like a baby 300SL roadster. While I mostly see women around my part of Florida driving the R232 in all configurations, I think the 4-cylinder would've been best served in a SLC/SLK-type. That said, I understand if the idea here was to sell the M139 cars in markets in East Asia, parts of Europe, etc. where there are displacement taxes (or were, I haven't kept up with it all). But yeah. Mercedes always seems to do this, even back with the R107 and R129 with like the sorta truncated version that doesn't sell well (both versions of the SL280 with the M104 and 112 combined outsold the V12 by only like a hundred units or so).
That said, doesn't seem the Lotus people I know IRL have had much trouble with this engine in the Emira.
I just think this whole category of car hasn't served Mercedes well in many years. The late-80s to early-90s and again in the early-00s was the watershed time for the SL. Over 20k 107s were made in '86. 25k R129s in '92, or so ('91-'93 were all incredible, granted the car was brand new and really great for its time). R230 production data is iffy. Some say 32k units in '02, 34k units in '03. I remember there being a LOT of them. I can't speak for the R231 or 232 production except that few are being sold. Lots of money on the hood in dealerships in Florida so probably not doing great elsewhere. I think the 232 though is the best-looking of the cars from the outside (can't stand interior) in a long time.
What's funny though is back in the days of the 113, 107, and 129, the drivers were very diverse. Young, old, man, woman. It started trending much older with the 230, definitely with the 231 because those were just the 230 buyers trading in their cars, and I really don't know who buys the 232. Around here it's women who look like Kristi Noem whose husband didn't want to buy them a Continental GT. As for the reasons for all this, one can only speculate. I think the car is too expensive and complicated, and I'd posit that in the past a lot of SL sales were 'tack-ons' to households that already had other Mercedes cars. I'd guess a 232 household might have a new G, GLS, or an S-class or something. But the rest of their cars these days are pretty darn unappealing.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
That sounds like F-Type for us.