Israel carries out large wave of air strikes across Lebanon
Posted by Phenergan_boy@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 180 comments
Israel just launched operation “Eternal Darkness” in a deliberate attempt to sabotage the ceasefire
EveningIntention@reddit
"Operation Eternal Darkness"
Are they deliberately trying to make themselves come across as evil at this point? Do they know how insane that sounds?
At this point just call your next operation "Genocidal Massacre"
AFuckingDuck_69@reddit
Maybe? I mean their whole end goal - at least for Zionists - is to start the end of times with some major conflict against Israel (something on those lines). By making themselves look and sound comically evil, it makes it easier to eventually fight them. Though that’s if the world will ever actually fight them atp.
numba1cyberwarrior@reddit
Source: crackpipe
RelicAlshain@reddit
For Christian zionists, yeah he's basically right.
A significant number of Americans support Israel for that reason.
acupofcoffeeplease@reddit
"Operation Evil Beyond Borders"
Ben-A-Flick@reddit
No they can't call it that because that was the name for the gaza genocide.
Suspicious-Yogurt-95@reddit
As a father of young kids it breaks my heart to think not only about the kids suffering with all the shit this conflicts impose to them but also the long term impacts on their education and future.
TwiggyPom@reddit
They are creating more radicals and hate. I guess this is what they want for some bizarre reason. This isn't how you work toward peace either way.
pickllerickk@reddit
Is it really radical to hate your family's murderer?
TheJewPear@reddit
No. But it is radical to hate people solely for having the same ethnicity as your family’s murderer.
PathfinderZ1@reddit
Blame Isreal for conflating Zionisim with Judaism then.
TheJewPear@reddit
No, thank you. When it comes to acts of violence towards innocent people I always blame the perpetrators.
PathfinderZ1@reddit
Regardless of circumstances? Interesting.. do you also hold the IOF accountable for civilian deaths if they were "being used as human shields"?
TheJewPear@reddit
Intentional violence towards civilians is unacceptable. Why should it matter who did it and for which cause?
PathfinderZ1@reddit
..and water is wet, do you have anything useful to add? We all know and acknowledge this.
Nice cop-out, are you going to answer my initial question or not?
TheJewPear@reddit
I already answered it, perhaps read what I’ve said above.
PathfinderZ1@reddit
So you do condemn the IOF, great! I'll answer you question then.
it definitely matters, because if we understand the root cause of someone's actions, then maybe we can fix it and stop this from happening alltogether in the first place?
TheJewPear@reddit
The root cause of a person attacking an innocent person who has done nothing to them, assuming the attacker is of sound mind and in control of their limbs, is very simple: they decided to attack the innocent person.
The victim being of the same religion, ethnicity or nationality as someone who harmed the attacker is not an acceptable defense, sorry. It isn’t acceptable defense for a settler attacking a Palestinian after Oct 7, and it isn’t acceptable drfense for a Hezbollah member to attack Israeli civilians.
PathfinderZ1@reddit
That is such a weird take. A person of 'sound mind' as you say, does not decide to wake up some day to harm an 'innocent' person for no reason, they obviously think they are guilty to some degree, or are lashing out, either case, by dismissing their reasons you are furthering this cycle of violence. You're treating side effects, not the actual issue.
I never said it was an acceptable defense or even justified, I'm saying it is a natural response.
There is a very clear aggressor here, though?
No one said it is ok, we just don't use it as a cover to defend the constant stream of Israeli war crimes as you do.
I really don't get Zionists.. they flatten Gaza and kill 70k people (conservative estimate).. and that's still not enough blood for them, then they'll lecture you about peace on the internet. Crazy.
TheJewPear@reddit
It’s not a natural response. Thousands of Israeli civilians were killed by Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and PIJ. How many of their family members took up arms and killed Palestinian or Lebanese civilians as a response? Thousands of Americans died on 9/11, how many of their family members went out and killed random Muslims as a response?
To kill or attack a civilian because of their nationality, religion or ethnicity is never a natural response, it is the response of a racist or bigoted person.
PathfinderZ1@reddit
Not sure if you're joking but the IDF isn't lacking for recruits and they pretty openly celebrate killing Palestinian civilians..
You seem to be making the distinction between 'random people' and state actors in regards to violent responses, there isn't really a difference.. and millions of Muslims died as a response to 9/11, so that's a pretty disgusting comment.
Go ahead and lecture a guy who just lost his all family, his home, his future about racism and bigotry. Think he'll listen to you?
I'm honestly not sure how do I do explain the concept of hopelessness to a robot, so I'll settle for this instead, you are obviously interested in maintaining the status quo, feel free to do that.. ignore the root of the issue at your own peril. Israel will never know peace then.
TheJewPear@reddit
The IDF recruitment is mandatory, they recruit roughly half of those eligible, and the vast majority will never see combat. IDF combat troops aren’t a bunch of bloodthirsty relatives of people who died to terror attacks, they are 18 year olds doing what they’re legally bound to do.
That’s an irrelevant comparison. The dead on the Israeli side isn’t lower due to Iran, Hamas, PIJ, Hezbollah and the Houthis being nicer folks, they try to kill as many civilians as they can, Israel just happens to have one of the best missile and rocket defense systems in the world, and is also a tiny country, so it’s easier to provide defense coverage. These regime and organizations have fired tens of thousands of missiles, rockets and drones on Israeli civilians over the last 2.5 years, Israel has intercepted around 98%. Without those interceptions Israeli casualties would’ve been in the six figures range by now, and their infrastructure devastated.
When talking about morality, intentions and actions matter more than results. Say someone was trying to detonate a bomb in a crowded train station and failed - does that make them less of a terrorist?
I am making a difference between people joining an armed organization to avenge someone, and people who are a part of an organized state military because this is their job. An IRGC soldier firing missiles on civilian population isn’t a terrorist, they may be a war criminal but not a terrorist. Someone bombing ambulances in the UK simply because they are owned by a Jewish NGO is a terrorist. There’s a huge difference between the two.
That’s actually quite rare. Most terrorists seem to have an ethnicity driven motivation, as in “someone in your ethnic group has attacked my ethnic group, so now I will attack you”. That doesn’t seem to apply only to Jews, we’ve seen too many sectarian wars in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq etc.
One thing people here love to ignore is that Israel has over 2m Israeli Arab citizens, most of them have the exact same ethnicity as Palestinians living in the WB and Gaza. Considering thousands of Israeli Jews have died by Iran, Hamas and co, would you think it’s common for Israeli Jews to go on random killing sprees in Israeli Arab towns? It isn’t. Considering many of those Israeli Arabs have family, friends and acquaintances among Palestinian population, would you think it’s common for them to go on killing sprees against Israeli Jews? It isn’t.
Sorry to say, but ethnicity-based vendetta is a very primitive thing that we see mostly in Africa and the Middle East.
I’m not interested in keeping the status quo, I’m interested in working towards peace, which goes through all sides to stop thinking about their side as an innocent victim, and to start seeing the pain and fear of the other side. This applies to the many Israelis that think all Arabs are out to get them and that war is the only solution, and it also applies to the many Arabs and Iranians that think Jews are evil and that Israel must be destroyed. When the conversation stops being sports-like, our team and your team, and instead puts all innocent civilians in one bucket regardless of citizenship, ethnicity and religion - that’s when we can make progress.
PathfinderZ1@reddit
Absolutely delusional, but I'm not surprised you'd say that.
On the other hand, bombing civilian infrastructure obviously will increase the number of dead civilians on the other side so.. do you think the IOF should be held to the same standard as the IRGC and Hezb? :)
I disagree, you can be an actor state and a terrorist at the same time. The IOF is a prime example of this. :)
..people losing all that in Palestine is quite rare..? What..?
Why would they do that when there's a much more accessible way via the IOF? :)
Not interested in being lectured on morals by child killers of all people to be honest.
Pretty words, but hard to accept from you when there is an ongoing genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
"Intentional" is the cop out all zionists use. They claim Israel doesn't "intentionally" harm civilians so everything is fine.
TheJewPear@reddit
“Intentional” is pretty much a basic requirement in any criminal law system. Have you not heard of mens rhea?
ShaubenyDaubeny@reddit
Shocking how they've unintentionally flattened Gaza and keep accidentally letting settlers displace Palestinians in the West Bank isn't it?
TheJewPear@reddit
Nice strawman.
ShaubenyDaubeny@reddit
☝🏻🤓
photochadsupremacist@reddit
I don't really care about criminal law systems. I think unintentionally killing 10 thousand civilians is a lot worse than intentionally killing 500.
Not to mention that contrary to Israeli propaganda, no Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran don't mainly target civilians, and Israel definitely intentionally targets civilians and has a very long and documented history of doing so.
TheJewPear@reddit
LOL, good one.
pinpoint14@reddit
Look at you, so brave an opinionless.
TheJewPear@reddit
Apparently being against violence towards civilians is a highly controversial opinion on this sub. Otherwise why am I getting all these comments?
NotGalenNorAnsel@reddit
So, you do hold the IDF responsible for their constant murdering of civilians in Gaza and Lebanon?
Or are you gonna try to weasel out with that "intentional" caveat, though we know damn well Israel intentionally targets civilian infrastructure and population centers.
SpinningHead@reddit
"Well, it's a trick, we always use it. When from Europe somebody is criticizing Israel, then we bring up the Holocaust. When in this country people are criticizing Israel, then they are anti-Semitic ... And it's very easy to blame people who criticize certain acts of the Israeli government as anti-Semitic, and to bring up the Holocaust, and the suffering of the Jewish people, and that is justify everything we do to the Palestinians."
Source: Shulamit Aloni, a former Palmach fighter and Israeli Knesset and cabinet member
TheJewPear@reddit
Have I called you or anyone else here antisemitic?
All I’ve been saying in my comments here is that intentional violence against civilians is never justified, and somehow this seems very controversial here.
SpinningHead@reddit
You conflated Judaism with Israel to use every innocent Jew around the world as a human shield.
TheJewPear@reddit
Where did I conflate Judaism with Israel?
SpinningHead@reddit
TheJewPear@reddit
Are Islamist attacks limited to Israelis?
mostard_seed@reddit
Is it radical to hate the society that enabled and supported the murder of their family?
TheJewPear@reddit
There’s no society that enabled anything, Israeli soldiers kill when they get an order to kill, just like any other soldier. You want to blame someone, blame the government and military leadership, and if someone focuses their hate and violence on that group, I wouldn’t care at all.
Intentional violence towards civilians is always wrong. It doesn’t matter who did it, towards whom, and why.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s interesting that you only say that when you are arguing with people angry at Israel slaughtering civilians. You never say “Israel shouldn’t have committed this atrocity and they should be stopped.” You just use anodyne language to condemn “both sides” while ignoring the fact that Israel is mass murdering Lebanese civilians wantonly while Hezbollah is not mass murdering Israeli civilians.
Most people feel that the side that is causing exponentially more death and destruction should get more criticism. You don’t seem to feel that they should. You seem to think that the side that has killed dozens of civilians should get the same amount of criticism as the side ghat has killed tens of thousands. It’s a defence of Israel - minimising their crimes and equating the sides, even though they are nowhere near equal in intent, savagery and destructiveness - that I’ve seen time and again, and it’s only deployed in defence of Israel, never anywhere else.
TheJewPear@reddit
Hezbollah has fired thousands of rockets and missiles on Israeli civilians.
I disagree with “the side that is causing more damage should get more criticism”. In WW2, the US caused a shit ton of damage to Nazi Germany, while Nazi Germany didn’t cause any to the US. Does that mean Nazi Germany were the poor victims? Of course not.
What matters is actions and intent, not results. If Israel has zero missile defense, their casualty count from Hezbollah’s missiles would be in the 5 or maybe 6 digits.
So yes, both sides are terrible (meaning the Israeli government and Hezbollah). One of them is just much better at what they do.
Clean-Ad-6642@reddit
Ah the Nuremberg defense. How did that work out for the fascists that tried that defense?
TheJewPear@reddit
How is it working out for the IRGC?
SpinningHead@reddit
"We were just following orders" - most moral army
TheJewPear@reddit
More like every single army in the world.
Are all those IRGC soldiers that fire missiles on civilians acting on their own accord? Or are they doing what told?
SpinningHead@reddit
Just following orders
TheJewPear@reddit
Good, then we’re in agreement that’s what soldiers do.
SpinningHead@reddit
Its certainly what Nazi and IDF soldiers do regardless of its an illegal order to mass murder civilians.
TheJewPear@reddit
So those IRGC soldiers firing missiles on civilians acting on their own according
SpinningHead@reddit
In true Israeli style, what you seek is exoneration of the perpetrators.
TheJewPear@reddit
So all Israeli civilians are fair game in your mind?
Why don’t you try forming a coherent argument instead of beating around the bush?
Clean-Ad-6642@reddit
Literal what your ass is doing right now.
TheJewPear@reddit
Already did, numerous times, but I’ll repeat myself for the slow learners in the crowd: intentionally harming civilians is wrong, no matter who does it and for what goal.
It’s a shame such a simple moral principle is such a hot take around here.
hussainhssn@reddit
Except the difference is that Israel conscripts most of their population, so that is enabling actually. As a matter of fact they’re the only ones in the region that have a hyper-militarized society, intentional violence towards civilians is always wrong but let’s not conflate civilians that take up arms to defend themselves and a country that has armed enthusiastic colonialist-settlers to the teeth for more than 70 years at this point.
TheJewPear@reddit
Those conscripted aren’t civilians. Conscription laws being one way or another does not give you an excuse to harm civilians.
hussainhssn@reddit
I like how you moved the goalposts from “no society is encouraging this” lmao, nobody is aiming for civilians except for Israel. Maybe Israel shouldn’t conscript most of their population and turn them into valid military targets? What other country around them does that level of militarization?
TheJewPear@reddit
I guess the fact that 95-96% of Iranian, Hezbollah, Hamas, PIJ and Houthi missiles and rockets hitting residential buildings have been all accidental then? That’s a remarkable mistake rate.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
And yet that doesn't seem to stop Israelis
TwiggyPom@reddit
I'm not saying that but that's how they will be portrayed in the future. It is also how people who weren't directly affected get radicalised.
beansthemajicalfruit@reddit
They have been a little busy defending themselves from radicals and hate since...(check my watch) Israel's founding.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Do you believe that hate just appeared out of a vaccuum?
beansthemajicalfruit@reddit
There's a reason most muslim countries allied themselves with the nazis and paid for it dearly. Don't hate on the jews or else!
TraditionalGap1@reddit
And do you actually know what that reason was?
beansthemajicalfruit@reddit
They were hoping there would be no more jews. Tiny, cowardly men ruling dusty Arab kingdoms... So pathetic.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
it's actually super antisemitic of you to imply that nearly a century of ethnic cleansing carried out by Israel isn't both legal AND a good thing.
How dare you examine context like a rational adult, you're personally victimizing every Jewish person on the planet by questioning whether Israel is allowed to murder civilians indiscriminately.
beansthemajicalfruit@reddit
Ahhh, so that's how you think this all started.... Very interesting....
TheJewPear@reddit
Did Hezbollah ever work towards peace? It takes two to tango.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
If we set the bar for 'work towards peace' at the level Israel seems to judge its own actions... yes, yes they did
TheJewPear@reddit
I’d much rather be fair and say that neither Israel nor Hezbollah are contributing to peace.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
This is this seems a bit absurd. Israel is in the offensive and has always been on the offensive. Neither Hezbollah nor the rest of Lebanon have people saying they want to take over Israel. You can’t say the same for Israel. Hezbollah has launched attacks on Israel but Israel has launched far more attacks on Lebanon, and it has repeatedly breached agreements like 1701.
I think that “both sides” are not the same and one side - Israel, in case you can’t work it out - has repeatedly operated in bath faith and has no intention of having peace with Lebanon.
TheJewPear@reddit
Hezbollah is the one that started attacking Israel on Oct 8th, as they did after the launch of the American and Israeli attacks on Iran in the current war. If you go further back you’ll see that any major conflict between Hezbollah and the IDF started with Hezbollah firing rockets and/or missiles on Israel’s northern towns.
It’s also not true that Israel launched more attacks. Israel hit more targets, but Hezbollah launched more attacks, Israel simply intercepted the vast majority of them.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Looks like we agree then
TheJewPear@reddit
Glad to hear it, and I don’t mean it cynically.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Why should anyone be expected to work towards peace with the people that stole their home, murdered their parents, jailed their children indefinitely, and tortured their baby with cigarettes?
Everything that has happened to Israel has been a direct result of actions taken by the state of Israel.
The world sees Israel for what it is now, a terrorist ethno-state that is committing a genocide.
TheJewPear@reddit
Well, if you want peace, work towards peace. If you want war, work towards war. Hezbollah has been working towards war all these years, and war is what comes as a result.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
TheJewPear:
Hezbollah works towards war? I take it you think Israel works towards peace?
TheJewPear@reddit
Nope. Did you miss my first comment?
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Perhaps Israeli's should have considered a peaceful option instead of committing genocide against their neighbors.
And yes, I do know the difference between the Palestinians and the Lebanese. Unlike Israeli's, I don't automatically class every ethnicity from the MENA region as "filthy arab 'invader' that needs to be exterminated to secure the existence of our people and a future for Jewish children".
Do you know the difference between Jewish people and Israel? Because Israeli's love pretending that they are the representatives of Jews worldwide. They love lying the bloody and broken bodies of Palestinian, Syrian, Druze, Lebanese, and Iranian babies at the feet of Jews worldwide while pretending that Israeli violence is somehow ordained by the Jewish god rather than the secular, fascist land-grab that it is.
TheJewPear@reddit
That’s not a decision civilians make, that’s a decision governments and leaderships make. The leaderships of Israel, Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran all seem to be doing whatever they can to perpetuate conflict and violence. It’s entirely their fault. It isn’t the fault of Israeli civilians just like it isn’t the fault of Lebanese, Palestinian and Iranian civilians.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Israeli's are 100% at fault for consistently electing their fascist leadership, and they are 100% responsible for whatever blowback the receive.
Nobody forced them to commit a genocide, they are doing it because they want to do it.
TheJewPear@reddit
So 100% of Israeli citizens are fair target because of the actions of a prime minister who roughly 10% of the public voted for?
That makes zero sense.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
responsibility and being a 'fair target' are two different things.
Israelis elected a genocidal fascist because a majority of them are in support of genocide. They weren't tricked, they just formed their opinions in a vacuum that was secured for them via their parasitic relationship with the US.
Israelis wouldn't be so eager to keep electing genocidaires that conduct illegal wars if their army of baby-murdering rapists got deleted by Iranian missiles every time they tried to start one. Instead they cower behind American missile interceptors and punch down at their poorer neighbors while threatening the world with a nuclear holocaust if they start losing.
TheJewPear@reddit
Most Israelis didn’t vote for Netanyahu, just like most Gazans didn’t vote for Hamas.
It’s incredible how you refuse to recognize the similarity between the two cases.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
TheJewPear:
That’s true. However, most Israelis voted for the coalition that is currently running Israel and is launching war after war and butchering people. Oh, and supporting settlers killing people and stealing their land.
Of the rest of Israel, most vote for hard right politicians like Bennett and Lieberman; who are every bit as pro-genocide as Netanyahu and his coalition partners, or soft right like Lapid.
Given the above information, when you say “most Israelis didn’t vote for Netanyahu” it seems to be an attempt to deceive. Most Israelis fully approve what Israel is doing in the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.
TheJewPear@reddit
Nope, also not true. Israel has a population of almost 10m. Netanyahu’s coalition won approx 2.5m votes. So 75% of Israelis either did not vote, or voted for an opposition party.
I disagree. Bennett might speak in right wing terms, it’s hard to be successful as an Israeli politician if you don’t, but in his term, the Israeli Arab parties were a part of his coalition, and there were no military operations or any widespread violence taking place.
In general, in most places, most people get behind the government and military when wars take place. That doesn’t make them valid targets. Civilians who have a political opinion you disagree with are still civilians.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
yeah, the poor Israelis are really powerless to stop the ongoing genocide their country is committing. There's nothing they can do other than vote for the politicians that vote in line with the guys literally calling it their life's mission to exterminate the Palestinian people.
Those poor, poor IDF troops, it's not like they made the active choice to participate in the genocide, they're all just victims.
Victims blowing up mosques, machine gunning little girls trapped in cars, raping prisoners to death, shooting journalists, bombing aid workers, executing paramedics, keeping thousands of children and adults indefinitely and illegally detained, voting to allow these children and adults to be executed by military courts.
You know, real 'I'm the victim here' activities.
TheJewPear@reddit
So do you also believe it’s ok for Israel to kill Gazans due to the action of Hamas?
You can’t have it both ways, either harming civilians intentionally is always wrong, no matter what their government does (which is what I’ve been arguing all along), or it’s fine to harm civilians if their government is bad (what you seem to argue - which funny enough is exactly the line of argument the Israeli extreme right wingers take).
jacquesroland@reddit
You are no better than a Zionist then. You are doing exactly what you accuse them of. Dehumanizing an entire population because of the actions of entrenched radicals. Just like the U.S. cannot win over the Iranian people by bombing them, why do you think rocket attacks on Israel will suddenly convince the population to rise up? It only has the same radicalizing effect.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
yeah, I'm basically a ethnosupremacist because I believe that Israel's immunity from consequences has emboldened its fascist ambitions. It's so dehumanizing to suggest that they would be less likely to commit violence if there is a real threat of retaliation.
let's strip the entire conflict of any context and pretend that Israel is just a bullied victim defending itself and not a violent ethno-state committing an active genocide.
jacquesroland@reddit
You haven’t actually made any distinction between the Israeli government and its people. There are over 3 million children in Israel. Are you saying it’s okay to fire rockets at them because of their government’s choices? You sound like the Anglo Imperialists justifying the bombing of Iran. What did those 3 million children do besides being born? Do you expect them to read your Reddit posts and walk out the country the moment they can go on an airplane ?
TommyTwoNips@reddit
I would hope that the Israeli government would consider the wellbeing of it's citizens before committing a genocide. Ultimately every single dead is Israeli is a result of Israel's ongoing choice to keep committing a genocide.
Israel is the one targeting journalists and murdering them in their homes alongside their families.
Israel is the one machine gunning children after murdering their parents in front of them.
Israel is the one raping prisoners to death.
Israel is the one blowing up aid worker convoys.
Israel is the one assassinating journalists in targeted shootings.
Israel is the one locking thousands of children in cages and debating the ethics of executing them.
Kinda seems like maybe Israelis wouldn't be under constant threat of missile attacks if Israelis weren't constantly committing acts of terrorism against their neighbors. Kinda seems like maybe Israel wouldn't do that shit if there was a risk of provoking an organized defense.
but no, everyone is just antisemitic and hates poor widdle Israel for absolutely no reason at all.
AuroraPo@reddit
Man, shut the fuck up. Peace? Israel is the last fucking country on the planet to talk about peace. Israel only knows how to murder negotiators, create false flags, and kill indiscriminately. There isn’t a bigger sponsor of terrorism worldwide than Israel, and they need to fucking go.
DanDan1993@reddit
Only Israel has agency according to people here.
"Brown people" only suffered from colonization and European therefore everything they do is in a reaction to this and without agency.
DanDan1993@reddit
Is firing cluster warheads on dense areas a way to work towards peace, or creating more radicalized and hate too?
Genuine question.. let's not pretend either side has opted to pick a choice to not prolong this shit
TraditionalGap1@reddit
That's not a genuine question. A genuine question wouldn't be handwringing about cluster rounds in a world where Israel drops willy pete with abandon.
A more genuine question might examine the difference between conduct we've seen from both of you (cluster rounds and WP) during a conflict and what we're discussing now, a large bombing campaign conducted immediately after a ceasefire
DanDan1993@reddit
Can you provide evidence for WP and cluster on civilians? Because now you're going into bad faith territory making up arguments to avoid the question I posed.
I ask again, is firing cluster warheads on civilians not inciting more hate and radicalizing the civilians? You say I handwringed "our cluster rounds" yet you do the same for Iran...
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You're asking for evidence of something that's trivially easy to verify yourself and that anyone who actively engages in discussions around Israel/Palestine should already be aware of and you're accusing me of bad faith?
Yeah? Point out where I'm handwringing for Iran. Oh wait, you can't, because I'm not discussing their attacks at all but criticizing how 'genuine' you're being.
DanDan1993@reddit
So you can't back your claims, use some no true Scotsman fallacy and deflect. Nice.
You're not criticizing me being genuine based on the comment, only based on my flair. And you are handwringing for Iran by constantly deflecting and avoiding up until this comment to say "yes", and even here it's behind some defense of your ego to not be "pro-israel" for a split second by openly criticizing Iran without deflecting to something else in between.
How genuine are you?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Why should I? Other people have already provided evidence of the use of WP against dense areas (the same bar you use to critique Iran and cluster rounds). Your claim that I can't 'back my claim' is obviously absurd and bad faith.
My 'yeah' wasn't an answer to your question (which I have no intention to answer because it isn't genuine) but a response to your accusation that I'm handwringing for Iran.
And do you know what the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy actually is? Can you point out where I use it?
and yeah, my critique is pretty obviously based upon the content of your comment and not your flair. We can pretty easily figure this out simply by looking at the argument I presented and seeing that it's rooted not in the fact that you have an Israel flair but because you're attempting to use behaviour that both sides engage in (but that you are only calling out one side for, because to do otherwise would blow up your argument) to deflect from criticism of an action that only one side is engaging in.
The only thing genuine there is the hypocrisy
DanDan1993@reddit
"anyone who actively engages in discussions around Israel/Palestine should already be aware of and you're accusing me of bad faith?" - this you homie? and no, only one person commented with evidence and even his article main conclusion is Israel is using it to burn forests, and have traced EIGHT instances where they dropped it on population locations (mind you these are small villages in southern lebannon and not metropolins like you'd imagine and argue), and some how this is evidence for mass use and systemic use of WP like you initially claimed? If Iran have used eight times a cluster I wouldn't argue in this and would say you're right. but we both know this isn't the case.
and no, I didn't call one side.... "lets not pretend EITHER side" is rooted in my first comment after genuinely asking you a question.
you just assume i'm not genuine because reasons, and try and deflect from my question (which you even claim you have no intention of answering, yet you say you're engaging in good faith? jfc man) and pretend I write something else just to fill your side (like you inventing this "calling one side" fairytale to justify you side stepping my question).
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Yeah, that was totally me. And, quelle surprise, it's not an example of 'no true Scotsman'.
Encore, quelle suprise, you won't discuss the article in good faith either. Because if were you wouldn't be claiming that the 'main conclusion' was 'Israel is using it to burn forests' because you wouldn't be cherry picking that single paragraph out of an entire article. You wouldn't be attempting to suggest that a single HRW report that documents 8 instances is actually representative of the total number of uses. And even worse, that same paragraph says
and it would be extremely bad faith to try and paint the conclusion as 'Israel is burning down forests' or that 'it was only 8 times' when almost 40% of their usage was in residential areas.
Right. This is precisely what makes your question not genuine: You want to make a both sides argument by attempting to hold up one behaviour that both sides engage in to deflect from discussion of a different behaviour that only one side engaged in.
DanDan1993@reddit
oh sorry, I thought i was clear when i said "SOME no true scotsman" you realized it wouldn't be a 100% match.
also this isn't one paragraph, this is you also taking a quote which has
Right after it and ignoring the conclusion of the author of the article. this is you cherry picking the narrative and what the article is claiming to fit your scope to continue using it to further your claims even though you can't produce a single evidence of Israel using WP on IRAN (BECAUSE IT HAS ZERO LOGIC OTHER THAN TERROR USE ON **DENSE AREAS**) to get your point anywhere coherent and with connection to current reality.
Yeah, I wouldn't discuss an article in good faith while ignoring this line... which comes at the very bottom. why would I?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
That's a really good faith way to admit that it wasn't. Really setting the bar high here
Are you attemping to suggest the author himself has come to a conclusion that your interpretation is the correct one?
That doesn't look to me like the author is making a conclusion either way but rather offering the statements of various parties, of which Beydoun happens to be the last.
You seemingly don't have any problem ignoring any other problematic lines, particularly ones provided by the same person whose words you are selectively quoting like 'found that 39% of uses were in residential areas, 17% in agricultural lands and 44% in forested or open terrain'.
Are you ever going to get around to addressing that contradiction? Or do we just choose the bits we like and ignore the rest
DanDan1993@reddit
"So even your article mostly claims it's for burning ground and not civilians... I agree it's a fucking disgusting method but if your biggest proof is how it's mostly forests being burned... Change your argument for ecocide and I'll join you" - I literally commented this to the guy who provided said article. I don't have any problem saying it's a disgusting method to flatten the area completely and there are other methods to negate threat from crossborders or launching sites.
There isn't a contradiction, you just can't comprehended complex issues and resort to some dichotomy of how Israel using WP to flatten areas around the border (I mean, look at Madjal Zoun, it's a fucking dense forest) to negate threat is the same as using WP on civilians as a policy. just like how Israel isn't firing any WP nor Cluster at Iran because it literally makes zero sense because most targets aren't soft targets, they are heavy targets requiring heavy ordinance, unlike iran mostly using clusters to just inflict soft damage and terror (I mean a bomblet hit a refinery in Haifa and almost no damage was done.... the level of most of these clusters).
TraditionalGap1@reddit
I'm not asking you what you said to some other person in a conversation I'm not involved in; I presented a very specific contradiction between your characterization of the article ('mainly burning forests', 'Again, eight incidents is hardly enough to justify it as a consistent usage of WP') and the statistics provided by your preferred speakeker in this article ('found that 39% of uses were in residential areas, 17% in agricultural lands and 44% in forested or open terrain').
For someone talking about 'can't comprehend complex issues', the fact you feel the need to defend or explain away WP demonstrates that you have a pretty poor grasp of the point I've been making, which is not about the morality or justification of WP usage at all.
I love how the Israelis are 'flattening areas around the border' but the Iranians are 'inflicting soft damage and terror'.
So we'll think the worst of Iranian cluster usage (despite its abysmal performance and an honest acknowledgement that the reason they're using cluster warheads is to negate Israeli SAMs) but we'll bend over backwards trying to minimize and downplay Israeli WP usage and pretend that they aren't using it to inflict 'soft damage' (how hard do you think civilian homes are??) and terror?
DanDan1993@reddit
"I love how the Israelis are 'flattening areas around the border' but the Iranians are 'inflicting soft damage and terror'."
did you look at Madjal Zoun? at this point you are just a walking caricature of a guy who thinks he knows everything but absolutely knows nothing and doesn't even want to learn anything, just parrot what he KNOWS is right because he feels that way. Southern Lebannon is a forest, flashing news break. Residential buildings can be built in a dense area as well. Iran isn't even bordering Israel, can you explain the use of cluster munitions on civilians then? negate SAM's? you know they can fire the clusters at the military targets and not some over 10KM+ CEP improvised MIRV bomblets at cities, but they choose not to? :')
also its hilarious how you go "i dont care what you said in another conversion about you hating WP and wish IDF used another method, you explaining WP usage means you support it!". top notch.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Pretty rich coming from a guy who thinks that because some rando declines to spoonfeed you easily searchable information that somehow means you've 'won' the debate
KaiBahamut@reddit
Israel isn't a signatory to the UN treaty that bans them, so who cares? It should get on board if it wants a right to decry cluster munitions.
DanDan1993@reddit
Ok? Still a weird way to side step answering the questions.
KaiBahamut@reddit
It's not a question, it's an answer- if Israel wants to object to cluster munitions, it should sign onto the treaty to not use them, as it has historically.
DanDan1993@reddit
It's just still a weird way to sidestep the issue of the other side also not signing them and using them, being a part of the problem as well. It was pretty much spelled out to you, yet you somehow constantly deflect.
KaiBahamut@reddit
Actually, it seems very fair- neither side has agreed not to use them and they are using them on each other. Of course, Israel is using them during a ceasefire, which is worse than using them during a conflict.
DanDan1993@reddit
ok making up stories to just say "yes both bad but i justify one because look the other is more evil"
I challenge you to find one evidence of Israel using cluster munition in IRAN. it's just pointless to use cluster munition if precision is needed, but of course logic plays no part in your reality, does it?
KaiBahamut@reddit
Neither use of Cluster Bombs is justified, Israel just keeps going lower and complaining when it happens to them.
DanDan1993@reddit
again, i challenge you to find evidence of cluster munition being used on Iran.
LauAtagan@reddit
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-south-lebanon-researchers
Like, you can use Google, can't you?, idk if it's the right term, but you seem to be sealioning.
DanDan1993@reddit
Beydoun said his findings suggested Israel’s military may be using white phosphorus “as a way to maybe start pushing people out” to create a “buffer zone” on the Lebanese side of the border.
“It’s just a practical tool to use to burn fields, I think it’s mostly that,” he said. “It’s mostly for scorching the earth.”
So even your article mostly claims it's for burning ground and not civilians... I agree it's a fucking disgusting method but if your biggest proof is how it's mostly forests being burned... Change your argument for ecocide and I'll join you
LauAtagan@reddit
You weird.
I can cherry pick too:
Now, I'm suuuuure no one was home, right?
DanDan1993@reddit
tbf IDF did order an evacuation of the entire south of litani, so civilians shouldn't be there. Don't agree with doing it, but it's better than nothing.
Again, eight incidents is hardly enough to justify it as a consistent usage of WP on civilians like OP claimed, in contrast to the other places they used WP.
Now can you return to my question? Or are we only side stepping?
LauAtagan@reddit
What question?, about ecocide?, I agree, it's bad.
DanDan1993@reddit
My first one... The one you used to justify moving to another subject because you can't admit how Iran firing cluster warheads into civilians is as bad as Israel.
LauAtagan@reddit
You didn't ask me any other questions?, maybe you are confusing me with someone else?
DanDan1993@reddit
You commented to a comment which has it pretty clear, "I ask again".... And my entire question
So did you just comment to try and get a getcha moment and ignore all previous context? Do you just impulsively twitch and comment on I/P bvsed content?
LauAtagan@reddit
Ohh, no, I now understand, it just seems like you took it so personally that it had to be something else.
Yeah, iran sucks, what's the point?
SirLadthe1st@reddit
So if Iran orders the evacuation of Tel Aviv, they can launch as many cluster bombs as they want after that, right?
DanDan1993@reddit
Given how they've done that and hit areas around.... You have to be able to enforce that, yeh?
Just like the times we all hated how Israel hit designated peace zones in Gaza even though people like Deif used it to hide and continue operations.
Phenergan_boy@reddit (OP)
So let me get this straight, because Iran is firing cluster warheads at Israel, it gives you guys the right to indiscriminately bombing Lebanon?
DanDan1993@reddit
No?
My bottom line is pretty much spelled in the last sentence
Phenergan_boy@reddit (OP)
You could just lead with that. I agree that this ceasefire never stood a chance in the first place
komokasi@reddit
Maybe dont start your reference from a point that gives you moral parity. Israel is a state built on stolen land, that continues to rape and kill innocent people in order to fulfil your bullshit expansionist doctrine.
Every year Israel has killed more innocent civilians in all of their neighboring countries then any small resist has ever done to Israel. Lets not pretend israel is somehow in the same level as these resistance groups.
Genuinely, how about you stop pretending isreal isnt the reason these resistance groups formed in the first place. How about genuinely taking some accountability for your shitty country's actions.
DanDan1993@reddit
I'm personally trying to do all those even though this entire comment is just a side step and deflection from dealing with current reality you try and repress.
Where should I start my reference point? 1947? 1936? 1929? 1834? How about the Spanish inquisition in 1492? Maybe the Arabian conquest? Maybe we blame the romens for today's tragedies? Or the Assyrians for their shifting population policies?
Linc_Sylvester@reddit
Na, I’m happy to just blame Israel for all this.
Moonlight_Brawl@reddit
dude, genuinely and I mean this in the nicest way possible, no one fucking cares about why y’all have to say anymore. So just shut the fuck up please.
DanDan1993@reddit
So you're in the "I want eternal war because I don't believe in peace" camp I guess, if campism runs the world now
Moonlight_Brawl@reddit
Not even gonna read your comment.
DanDan1993@reddit
Hope you realize peace is a process between enemies and not between buddies
Cheers
Moonlight_Brawl@reddit
just please, shut up
DanDan1993@reddit
Why bother replying?
beefprime@reddit
Its not radical to fight against a genocidal invader.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
They are doing the dumbest, most evil shit, over and over, and then whining when they see the repercussions. It'll be interesting to see how Israelis deal with the blowback once enough Americans vote to cut all aid and funding and they stop getting unlimited missile interceptors.
Can't say I pity them, frankly. Though, I am honestly terrified about the amount of terrorism the Israelis will start committing worldwide once their ethnostate starts to dissolves completely.
Bolaumius@reddit
It'll only happen when americans stop voting for people that receive money from AIPAC, simply voting for democrats will change nothing if these democrats also receive money from them.
NotGalenNorAnsel@reddit
Not just AIPAC, they've learned that their brand is cancer and they've started funneling support for Zionist candidates through other PACs, like Elect Chicago Women and Affordable Chicago Now...
TommyTwoNips@reddit
I know, that's why I'm cautiously hopeful for the upcoming midterms. Lots of progressive candidates making noise in contested districts and lots of establishment dems losing their footing over their unshakable support for a live streamed genocide.
the timing of this illegal war and the past several years of watching our tax dollars fund Israel's genocide while being told universal healthcare is just 'too expensive' might just be enough to break the stranglehold that foreign (and domestic corporate) PAC money has over us.
Zasoos@reddit
The Israeli terrorism needs to be called out and the Israeli regime needs to be heavily sanctioned. Although I do not have any faith in the European Union or the UN, I have hopes on Spain to enact sanctions on the terrorist regime of Israel.
LightLeftLeaning@reddit
Lebanon has been bombed by Israel at every excuse for many decades. The people of Lebanon have suffered hugely. The people of Israel should hang their heads in shame.
GreyPhantom100@reddit
You could have ended your sentence at hang. If this is what their "democracy" stands for, then it should not exist. What other country votes to bomb an entire civilization? Not even the USA is supporting this. Only 16% of Americans stand behind this war.
HockeyHocki@reddit
What a joke. the Iranian regime have no right to unilaterally include other sovereign states in ceasefire deals. The Lebanese PM has said as much today
TraditionalGap1@reddit
lol, what? Of course they have a right. They can attach any conditions they want to whatever deal they choose to make. Do you think there's some sort of international law or something that says 'Iran isn't allowed to demand a cessation of attacks on third countries' but that the US and Israel are perfectly within their rights to expect Iran to cease attacking third countries?
I know you usually have hot takes but yikes
patgeo@reddit
They can't have Lebanon stops attacking, but can demand Lebanon is not attacked.
Their terms can include what they want the country they are negotiating with to do, not what they want other random countries to do.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Yeah and they have a 'right' to demand night becomes day too, about as plausible. Lebanon decide the terms of ceasefire for their country not Iran ffs🤦♂️
TraditionalGap1@reddit
So again, in your mind, Iran could have kept firing at all the GCC countries and it would have been perfectly fine and acceptable? You don't think Israel and the US might have taken issue with that?
HockeyHocki@reddit
GCC countries are not at war with Iran, if they were you would absolutely expect them to review & agree terms of a ceasefire deal that would obligate them in any way
TraditionalGap1@reddit
It was a very simple question: You don't think Israel and the US might have taken issue with that?
warnie685@reddit
Lol, is that the official hasbara line now to excuse their attacking under cover of a ceasefire?
HockeyHocki@reddit
There is no ceasefire in Lebanon you nitwit, thats precisely the point.
turbotank183@reddit
Except it was absolutely one of Iran's main points of their 10 point ceasefire deal.
It was only Israel that said Lebanon wasn't part of that deal and now the US have to parrot that or else they look weak not being able to control Israel.
You cannot use Leavitt, or any of the other people in the administration, words as proof of anything, they consistently lies. You can read Iran's proposal and it's in there from before this bombing happened.
Don't call people names if you don't know the facts.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Did Israel agree to a ceasefire in Lebanon? No
Did Lebanon agree to ceasefire in Lebanon? No
Did Lebanon hand over their sovereignty to Iran? No
Is there ceasefire in Lebanon? No
Those are the facts.
warnie685@reddit
Lol, the US at the moment doesn't even know what day it is.. which of course suits the filth who would try cover up yet another war crime of course.
"The US must choose between a ceasefire or a continued war "via Israel", says Iran's foreign minister following today's series of strikes across Lebanon.
In an X post, Seyed Abbas Araghchi says the terms outlined in the two-week ceasefire between the US and Iran are "clear and explicit".
The Iranian foreign minister attaches the announcement of the ceasefire by Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif, highlighting how Sharif said the agreement would include Lebanon."
HockeyHocki@reddit
Shit Iran says;
"Hezbollah are an independant militia in a foreign country, can't hold us responsible for their actions"
Also "Iran signed a ceasefire, naturally you can't attack Hezbollah anymore'" 🙃🙃🙃
bimbosoupqueen@reddit
The Israeli propagandists will use Iran standing up for Lebanon as fodder to keep conflating Hezbollah with all of Lebanon. So that Israel can keep pretending that they are justified in mass murdering civilians and stealing land.
The PM realizes that, and tries to distance his country from being linked to Iran/Hezbollah in public perception. Israel then twists his statement into an excuse for breaking the ceasefire. Israel is so fucking vile
AndreasNarvartensis@reddit
"Actually, Lebanon wants to be attacked".
Bright_Captain7320@reddit
Jesus, can the Lebanese government just drop the macho man act? It clear they can't protect themselves.
At this point just take the deal offer and admit it.
NotGalenNorAnsel@reddit
Reciprocity would see similar destruction in Tel Aviv... Guess it's only fair. What's with the Irish flag? Trying to go undercover?
Clean-Ad-6642@reddit
They probably got annoyed at seeing incredibly dope Irish people supporting resisting the Palestinian genocide, so this is their way of trying to lash out. It's the same as when you see someone with a Palestine flair & supporting the genocide. This certain chud is a serial offender. Can't help but chime in to defend Israel's crimes against humanity nearly every post.
Khers@reddit
I can't believe the US and Europe are still supporting this apartheid, genocidal state.
They need to be completely cut off from the civilised world. And that would be far less than they deserve.
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
How about we sanction the European countries that are facilitating this too
Clean-Ad-6642@reddit
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Good one mate.
beefprime@reddit
I just can't believe people still think the US and Europe have any kind of moral consideration at all in what they do. Just look at their history, for hundreds of years they have been colonizing/genociding/exploiting their way across the globe, that has not stopped right up until today, the only difference is that monarchies that glorified empire have transitioned into "democracies" that pretend its not happening.
Bolaumius@reddit
This is probably the most evil country that has ever existed, even worse than nazi Germany. At least Hitler tried to hide the holocaust because he understood that the average german would be against it meanwhile the israeli can see everything happening in real time and they will cheer and support all this evil.
berbal2@reddit
This is an incredibly ignorant statement, historically speaking
ChillAhriman@reddit
There were nazi soldiers who tried to skip their duties in the concentration camps, not because of ethical considerations (they were indeed nazis), but because they got physically sick. They couldn't reconciliate the idea of what they had been advocating for with the reality of making it come true.
Israelies today cheer for the murder, mutilation and rape of Palestinians and Lebanese in social media, all the time, every day, even with photos portraying the victims at their disposal. Many of them physically go, out of their own volition, to the West Bank, in order to attack and rob the Palestinians living there, even though they are civilians.
berbal2@reddit
You are comparing examples you’ve seen on social media with notable exceptions in the Holocaust. They are notable because those brave individuals were the exceptions to the norms.
Also, even a brief read through of operation Barbarossa would tell you that the Nazi soldiers were indeed worse. By magnitudes.
SirLadthe1st@reddit
I would agree it's the most evil country that exists right now, but historically speaking there were tens of worse nations
wtf_are_crepes@reddit
Can the civilized world abandon this war hungry nation yet? How does a 9.6m population country control the entire future of the region and get away with it, with no repercussions. Insane.
coldcoldpalmer@reddit
For anyone that’s out of the loop, this is by far the worst bombardment Beirut has had since 2006.
This isnt about hezoballah. It never was. Please don’t parrot this narrative
L_viathan@reddit
From the Reuters love war thread, 27m ago:
Several media outlets in Iran reported that the ceasefire has been breached by Israel.
Iran's Tasnim news agency, citing an unnamed source, said Iran will withdraw from the ceasefire agreement if the attack on Lebanon continues.
It said the country's armed forces are identifying targets to respond to Wednesday's attacks by Israel against Lebanon.
Stopping the war on all fronts including Lebanon was part of the two-week ceasefire agreement with the U.S., the news agency said.
Iran's Press TV also said Iran will punish Israel for attacks against Hezbollah in "violation of ceasefire," citing a source.
Meanwhile, the Fars news agency said oil tankers passing through the Strait of Hormuz have been stopped after what it called Israel's "ceasefire breach."
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said overnight that the ceasefire suspending the six-week-old U.S.-Israeli war against Iran did not apply to Lebanon, and the Israeli military said operations against Hezbollah there would continue.
Lebanon is not part of the ceasefire agreement the U.S. has with Iran, Axios reported on Wednesday, citing White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt.
mostard_seed@reddit
Is this a repeat of 2006 all over again? And is everyone just okay with it again?
I guess they were okay with it the previous 3 times it happened so I shouldn't he surprised.
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