Tradies - what am I doing wrong here?
Posted by lagori@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 61 comments
Genuine question — not trying to have a go, just trying to understand what I might be getting wrong and what I can take responsibility for.
Over the past year, we’ve had over ten different trades involved in house work — painters, electricians, plumbers, builders, joiners. Without exception, every job has either been delayed significantly, pushed back multiple times, or run well over the agreed budget.
In each case, the work has been booked in and then moved repeatedly (as much as five months - which was a self-imposed deadline, not ours - that one came in at double the price for the privilege), or we’ve been bumped because 'another job' has taken priority. We even had a job booked for last summer that got pushed to September, then October, and then they cancelled, saying they just won't get to us.
We’ve tried to be straightforward, kind, adaptable clients — I trained in a trade many years ago and understand the other side of the equation. This has meant we've tried to give clear briefs, budgets, be flexible where we can be, but we seem to be the ones who always get taken the mick out of.
All but two have managed to get out on holiday in this same window - skiing, sunshine, etc. That is their prerogative. If the work was getting done, no trouble. If they accounted for it being in their diary when quoting, no trouble. However, everyone appeared to catch the individual by surprise (even flat telling me it's a last-minute deal because they 'just needed some time off'), it's galling that I can't afford a holiday in time or money, yet I am still losing out.
What I’m trying to understand is whether this is just how the market is at the moment (particularly in north Cornwall/Devon where we are), or whether there’s something in how I'm approaching it that’s part of the problem.
Should we expect to book work 2 years ahead of deadlines? Being more difficult people to ensure we're the ones who are bumping others? This has been my experience in this recent tranche of work, but to be honest, it's also been true for most of the last decade.
Would genuinely value perspectives - 100% failure rate seems crazy.
Elster-@reddit
Most tradesmen don’t realise they are running a business and think they are just offering a service.
Just because someone knows how to install a socket, paint a wall or fix a toilet doesn’t mean they will be good at running a business. That means you can end up with really skilled people who aren’t good with quotes, time management, saying no to clients, etc and get this reputation.
A skilled tradesman will have work booked in and can get away with any of the business arrangements
JayBea-on-Sea@reddit
Came here for this 👆. Many dream of being self-employed, then hit all “fun” bits of running a small business, then get bitter over spending their evenings and weekends doing admin. The merits of being employed or partners in a small business is that someone else, whose profession it is, can manage accounts, work schedules, marketing, finance, supplies etc.
surreyade@reddit
The best 'tradesman' I've ever used was a former Sainsbury logistics specialist, who just happened to be good enough at DIY to set himself up as a kitchen and bathroom fitter. I think he had a computer science degree before he started with Sainsbos.
Proper quotes, timelines in MS Project and he always started and finished on the days stated. Always nice work too.
Nearly forgot. Chap who did my patio and garden was a former IT guy for BAE Systems, but gave it up and went in with his brother doing landscaping. Again, detailed quotes and timeline, too notch work and also came under budget.
Most tradies might be good at their trade, but the majority it appears are crap business people and project managers.
nothingnew09876@reddit
I'm a good joiner, shit at running a business though. To much admin, I'd rather just make shit out of bits of wood than fill in forms and press square buttons.
lagori@reddit (OP)
Very true that being good at the job isn't the same as being good at managing the job. I do think there is a chronic undervaluing of skills associated with time management and productivity.
OldGodsAndNew@reddit
The most reliable tradies I've come across usually have a wife/partner doing the scheduling, organising and other "office" work
Itsstillyourturn@reddit
I did a quote on some niche restoration work a few weeks back. Went to confirm on the glass today its gone from £1200 to £3500, I've just told the customer I don't want to do the job anymore & I know there halfway through a big project. For small business's like myself its just not worth the hassle and the potential to be £1000s out of pocket.
MaltDizney@reddit
You couldn't update the quote on the new info ?
Airurando-jin@reddit
What’s the reason for the sudden price increase in glass ? Or is specific xomoany chain ?
Itsstillyourturn@reddit
They claimed it was energy prices, buts its a very, very niche product so I can't get it anywhere else. Its profiteering really.
I did ring the customer, they initially suggested as I'd quoted in writing I'd have to swallow the £2k difference at that point I just simply said its not a job for me, sorry.
Gellert@reddit
Homeowner not a tradie. I've found I'm better off going to a storefront for a midsize local company than a tradie. You pay a bit more but you pay the quote, the job gets done properly, in a short time frame and comes with guarantees. The only good tradies I've known are either trying to retire or working for one of these companies.
Otherwise_whizley@reddit
Storefront? You mean a company with a high street office? Just asking for clarification because this sounds like good advice.
merryman1@reddit
I just cannot comprehend the cost of getting anything done and then inevitably the fucking god-awful quality and standards by which the work seems to get done to?
I am not trained in a trade at all and yet I spent the bank holiday relaying my patio because the 10+ year dedicated paving tradesman who has boards up advertising himself all over my town apparently doesn't know how to mix cement and the whole thing is falling apart after barely a year.
What really gets me... Who is actually affording to have more work done these days? I really want an extension or to have the plastic conservatory converted into something a bit more substantial but the estimates I'm receiving I might as well just sell the house and buy somewhere bigger.
Asleep-Software-4160@reddit
There's nothing stopping you building your own extension. I've done it. It's hard work and you have to learn a lot, but it's quite rewarding.
merryman1@reddit
Whats stopping me is that I'm typically only at home over the weekends, and when I am at home I'm glued to emails and the phone. I don't have the time to do a big project like that myself much as I would enjoy it. But I mean yeah I guess I just thought the whole point of getting a "good" job was that it gave you the income to pay to get professionals to do jobs like this properly. And instead I can hardly afford to get any work done, the work I do get done feels absurdly overpriced, and then the quality doesn't feel that much better than if I'd just tried to hash my own way through it anyway lol...
Asleep-Software-4160@reddit
I get what you're saying, but maybe they have a good job too, so they get paid a lot. They probably think it's ludicrous they have to pay so much for an accountant to spend an hour fiddling their taxes.
There is no excuse for poor-quality work, but it's cheaper to do a shit job and there's no shortage of people who will pay you for one!
Shyaustenwriter@reddit
There’s something stopping me, I’m 68 year old woman and I suffer from vertigo if I tip my head back for more than a few seconds. I can’t get tradesmen to even look at the job
skelly890@reddit
What’s the job?
Optimal-Room-8586@reddit
See, I've been tempted to take this approach myself, however my experience is that I never have all the gear I need, and so it ends up costing a lot and taking a long time. Plus with two young kids and family - it feels like something of an indulgence to disappear for two days from family in order to try and possibly fail to do some DIY.
MaizeGlittering6163@reddit
The way you deal with this is DIY for anything that isn’t structural or otherwise needs certificates. I dislike doing this stuff and would prefer to pay people to have it done for me, but when even getting them to turn up to quote is a challenge I’ll just crack on.
I don’t know why they’re like this. They’re probably so swamped they can just take lucrative jobs all the time so the stuff I want doing goes to the back of the queue.
n0p_sled@reddit
How do you go about getting the necessary skills? Is it 'simply' a case of watching a few YouTube videos along with careful planning, or do you have someone available to show you the ropes?
11pagesIn@reddit
Yep, you can get a long way with youtube videos and having a go.
The one thing I wasn't able to pick up this way was plastering, so I went to evening classes at the local college, 6 weeks to learn to skim, then I skimmed my whole house. Only had to get someone in to do the ceilings.
Kitchen fitting, bathroom fitting, painting, decorating, tiling, all perfectly doable as a DIYer with a bit of patience.
schwillton@reddit
Plastering night classes is actually a genius idea, I’m definitely doing this
Excellent-Score-426@reddit
I second this.
I have learnt how to do most jobs myself. I have knocked down walls and replaced bathrooms etc.
Only time i go through the ball ache of calling someone is for stuff that needs to be certified. Which is surprisingly quite slim
So far i have only had to call tradesman for gas and work on the electric consumer unit.
Anon_Fodder@reddit
It's a very vague statement but it's not how the market is in my opinion. Seems like you've been really unlucky with the contractors you've decided to go with. This is quite a common post, you normally hear about bad workmanship but never the good. But then again who wants to post about a company carrying out the work to a high standard and on time? As an engineer myself I know all about the jobs I've done that haven't gone well and hear pretty much nothing about all the jobs we went above and beyond to complete. Then again, no news is good news in my experience.
AeroNic1065@reddit
Just throwing this out there as an alternative, not suggesting its true - could you be over-briefing?
I know tradies that knock back jobs where they percieve the client may have done their own research and think it will cause them hassle down the line when the work may not live up to what the customer believes (from research) is the standard rather than actual building regs.
discoveredunknown@reddit
My Dad was In the trades for years and over the years assembled a little team they could all lean on, they had an electrician, a plumber and him and his mate to do all the general building. They were massively in demand back 10-20 years ago especially as they had a good reputation via word of mouth.
They would quite literally choose when they wanted to work and what jobs they wanted, if a job was a ballache they’d over price it and if the customer took it then it’d be a result, it’s probably even worse now. Doesn’t excuse the fact some tradies will just piss you about anyway because people. I think it falls back to a lot of the time trades are in demand and if a bigger golden egg comes up before yours they’ll move you around, making hay whilst the sun shines, your booked in - you’re probably going nowhere, so that cash job for £3k for a few days work is getting done before they come to you etc.
terahurts@reddit
I was about to post pretty much the same thing. My dad was a sparkie on-and-off and had a little book of other trade's cards he could trust as well as certain tradies he'd never work with again.
Once you've found someone in the trades who does a good job, chances are they'll know a bunch of other trades that they'll happily send work to or recommend. When he went semi-retired, most of his work came through other trades pointing customers his way. Unfortunately, the hard part seems to be finding someone reliable in the first place.
MarionberryFinal9336@reddit
My hot take is that the skillset of most tradies and the project planning skillset required to plan, communicate and execute without issues or delays do not often exist in the same people.
Naive_Reach2007@reddit
Basically best thing you do is go to your local merchants of the various trade and ask who the guys would be happy customer wise to work on there own home.
You would then have 2-3 good tradesman that may not be the cheapest and booked but you may get better service
Also i find its communication in the fact you haven't got anythingwin writing ref start dates, finish dates hours on site and extras etc...
You need to act as a project manager with dome trades and ensure they understand your expectations and you understand what they are doing.
Also some of the best people i know trades wise are crap at managing there diary sp jump at whos shouting the loudest, especially if they also do work for general builders on top of there own.
Boboshady@reddit
To start with, I don't mean to be rude here, just factual.
If everyone is doing it to you, then it's something to do with you. All trades will try it on so they can make as much money as possible, it seems you're the pushover who is making room for other customers to get their work done quicker.
They will ALL try it, that's just the nature of their business - another customer will offer a juicy job but only if it can be done RIGHT NOW, and right now is when your work is scheduled...so they'll see if they can move you, you let them, job done - they now still have your work AND the juicy one to work on this coming week.
You need to start saying no when they try to move the dates. You need to hold them to account when they try to up the price, and learn how to ensure that your quotes are solid in the first place so they don't find a bunch of stuff they "weren't expecting and didn't quote for". Obviously there's always the chance some stuff comes up, but they shouldn't be quoting without any kind of contingency at all - experience tells them what problems are likely to happen.
Again - not trying to be rude, but the problem is obviously how you're engaging with these people, and they're running all over you because of it.
lagori@reddit (OP)
Just to be clear, often, we're not even getting told of delays - the five-month example I gave above was constantly assuring us they would be with us 'before the end of the month', 'before Christmas', 'I'm a man of my word', etc., etc. None of them has presented themselves as difficult, and I don't believe they're bad people.
However, fair enough - be more difficult. What a shame that being unpleasant is the way to get people to do what they say they will, especially where having a good working relationship seemed to me to be the decent approach.
godtierjerker@reddit
The problem is your attitude. You're being a doormat. It's not "being unpleasant" if you hold people to quotes and timetables. It's why we have contracts.
lagori@reddit (OP)
Generally, with a tradesperson, there isn't a contract, at least not that I've had. The erosion of the timeframe is incremental - starting early March becomes mid March, start of April, all while assuring me it's a priority. On the other side, asking for a contract commitment = this person is difficult = I don't want the hassle... so its a lose / lose.
Optimal-Room-8586@reddit
But when they start shifting the time, you could push back and say words to the effect of "Sorry, but the work needs to be done by the timescale we agreed. If you can't do that we'll find someone else"?
lagori@reddit (OP)
Have tried that - got nowhere.
geeered@reddit
You can require a contract; you'll have to make it yourself. It may limit your options, meaning you have to pay more, but it sounds like what you're offering right now isn't enough for them to take you seriously anyway.
godtierjerker@reddit
No I mean it's why contracts exist. Because you have to make people do what they say they will. That's not being unpleasant. It's the nature of services and transactions. You have to draw boundaries. You should have given them the boot during the first month. Making you wait months is taking the piss.
dick_piana@reddit
It's not being unpleasant. If someone isn't delivering on their service, you find someone else who will. Are you looking to make friends here or procuring a service?
Theratchetnclank@reddit
Sounds like the jobs you want doing aren't ones they really want to do. Therefore they are taking better jobs and leaving yours as a fallback option incase they don't have other work.
tmr89@reddit
Lovely way to treat customers
lagori@reddit (OP)
Amazing way to take care of your reputation.
geeered@reddit
Unfortunately it's presumably been doing them fine so far - as you still booked them, despite that they've likely been doing this for a while.
SuperExstatic@reddit
Seems like you’re too reasonable maybe seen as a pushover, get other people in or at least let the tradesmen know you want it done by a certain time or you’ll have to get someone else in , it sounds like you’re being parked up while they deal with other customers that push back on deadlines , it’s not a slight against yourself but a lot people just don’t know the right way to deal with this sort of thing so things get done on time and at a fair price
WGD23@reddit
I cant think of another industry or sector where trade practices would fly
lagori@reddit (OP)
I think that's true. People are generally reasonable and know that variables occur along the way. If I treated my clients this way, I would not expect to keep working, yet they seem to be keeping afloat based on this approach.
Lazy-Kaleidoscope179@reddit
It's not you, it's them. They're all useless in my view.
You're much better off learning how to do things yourself. You'll do a better job and obviously it will be a lot cheaper - it'll probably just take you longer.
tmr89@reddit
I find non-British tradies much better and more reliable, so I always seek them out when I can
BSturdy987@reddit
You think every trade is useless?
3rdLion@reddit
That’s not what they said. The people working the trades are useless, not the trades themselves. Obviously.
BSturdy987@reddit
The comment is edited. Initially it said all trades are useless, hence my reply. Obviously.
Flaramon@reddit
Such a consistent failure rate would suggest that there is something in common: the scope of work, the agreed price, the pressure, you, etc.
lagori@reddit (OP)
I agree, although all prices seem high to me - they quote, and we're not negotiating them down. That is based on a pre-agreed scope of work - things like painting the entire downstairs of the house, or tearing down and rebuilding some element. Talking generally £5-15k jobs. I appreciate it could be me - maybe I am an arse, but then again, we're going out of our way to be nice, welcoming, kind etc - I don't think we come across terribly. Hard to diagnose that.
jibbetygibbet@reddit
To be honest having to guess I’d say you’re just not important enough. People will always want to try to blame you but the reality is that most people are quite self centred. If they really wanted to stick to their commitments they could, they choose not to and that is on them. Whether it’s because a mate asked them (and you’re not their mate), a job comes up that needs to be done quickly they will lose out on otherwise, or something else.
Sees more likely they see you as an easy meal ticket - they guess (correctly it seems) that you’ll wait, you’ll accept the higher price, you won’t kick up a fuss etc and so this frees them to accept other jobs over yours. Honestly you might well be onto something with “be more difficult” - or perhaps not difficult but firm. But yes it’s very hard to diagnose from your (or our) position. The other strategy is some other leverage - for example if you get a recommendation from a mutual friend then complain to the friend, that makes things awkward between them and less likely to let you down than some random they don’t know in “real life”.
Jingoldsby@reddit
Not in the trades but theres a real shortage of manual labour at the moment.
Jobs are delayed because or external factors i.e. people not doing the enabling works for that person to do thier job.
As for costs going up are you surprised I would allow for a min 10-20% in your budget for unexpected price rises.
I think if you get a self build morgage they include a 25% buffer for unexpected costs.
Jingoldsby@reddit
I know my mates in the trades are booked up for at least 3-6 months and its a suppliers market so they can pick and chose thier jobs depending on type of work etc.
Jingoldsby@reddit
We've just seen an annual 5% increase in materials (kinda standard across the board with most suppliers) then on top of this a further 10% on electrical components.
Cant comment on other materials but think wood is ok for the time being based on chats with mates. But for carpets know theve gone up by 10 too.
mosleyowl@reddit
We were finding this when renovating our ground floor. We ended up getting a project manager to manage it all using his contacts and it came in a couple of thousand more than we originally wanted but it all got done to a great standard and most importantly on time.
Obviously not useful if it’s singular jobs but if you have multiple jobs relying on each other, if recommend looking for a project manager or similar on check a trade or something.
mumwifealcoholic@reddit
I'm in South Yorkshire and we've encountered the same.
barejokez@reddit
I'm not a tradie myself, but have worked on enough contract bids, big and small, to understand the dynamic.
Fundamentally, if you bid for a job with a frank appraisal of the time and cost, you will be undercut by someone who promises to do it quicker for less.
You also never fully factor in contingency plans. You always believe you can get something sorted in 2 weeks before you go on holiday, but so often something comes up, often out of your control - a supply shortage, another person not ready for you to start on time, even a sick kid at home. It happens all the time, but again, if you bake an extra week into your proposal to allow for these eventualities, you end up looking slack.
Finally, it is human nature to prioritise new work, unfortunately. The job that is 3/4 finished is locked in - that client won't fire you until you really take the piss because getting someone else to finish another person's job is not easy. You also constantly have one eye on the next job, as being idle is wasteful, so overlapping jobs makes some sense. However, you need to get the new job going asap because you could easily get kicked off that if the work hasn't been started.
You always think it's easy to balance the demands of multiple clients, but it's always harder than you think!
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