Realistic iran war outcomes ?
Posted by ThrowinA2shade@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 64 comments
Trump has no intention in giving them all those
demands (and yes they have the upper hand).
He is just buying time to figure out how to open the strait, he also just learned these guys aren’t flinching when threatened with total destruction.
Both sides (gulf states/US) vs Iran) know complete destruction of either sides’ oil or water production is a red line neither can pass because at that point, literal millions would die. (That’s why karg island is still operational and why Iran still has electricity, and why Iran hasn’t hit oil sites as hard as they could, just enough to show they can, or desalination plants)
Because either side doing so would basically be dropping a metaphorical nuke, and mutual assured destruction (directly to the gulf states and indirectly to the US/west.) The destruction will be a global famine winter as millions will die from the lack of oil and fertilizer.
So Trump says “I’ll think about it, let’s talk” to figure out if there is a way to crush their Hormuz chokehold. If he can figure it out, it’s basically over except the damage already caused , which will be felt and shift the new “normal” in our boiling pot. Personally, it’s too easy for Iran to threaten the strait so I think this is the least likely option, but unfortunately the best scenario too (well 2nd best, the absolute best is to go back to status quo before the war and Iran is cool with the petrodollar(they ain’t)).
Trump will have to weigh an extremely costly (in lives) ground war to open the strait by force. Which could/would unravel things in the US for him, the war would then be half assed till the US retreats and looses status as the world decision maker which causes a depression due to dollar devaluation.
What If he can’t figure it out in the ceasefire time? I genuinely don’t know. Trump might just tell the world to deal with it and we wont share our domestic oil and probably Venezuelan oil either . But what happens with fertilizer? That might be nation security number 1. The oil thirsty nations will do what Iran says for oil (which is pay in euro/yuans) and crush the dollar (causing US depression) .
At the same time , Iran agrees to negotiate because they wanna see if Trump is actually a coward bully and he gives them major concessions….they figure he’s probably not, but as soon as the US breaks the ceasefire they will sink a ship or something to show the world the US can’t secure the strait. Their goal is to damage the petrodollar and think nations will dump the petrodollar (major US depression) in favor of Euros/yuans to get the oil they desperately need , now a couple months deep by then.
What Trump does at that point idk. Losing the petrodollar will cause hyperinflation in the US and cause a depression. What the American public does will also be very interesting.
Right now, the longer Iran can hold off the US and survive the bombing, the more likely they can cause a US depression and that’s their best chance to survive and win this war/improve their future. Or if the US retreats they win without more destruction of their infrastructure and can hurt the US economy more. Or if the US invades they only have to fight like hell until the US public puts an end to it. Or if the US crosses the red line, the whole world is fucked as the gloves come off.
What’s bizarre is how I go to work and out in public and really no one is talking about the potential metaphorical nuke looming us or the potential depression coming. I think many know the new normal is going to be shit, and we just hope it’s not either of the next two shittier things.
The “intolerant left” is sitting by waiting for the “peace loving” right with their closets full of ammo to wake up and remove this admin , because if the left does anything the right/maga will go full J6.
Of course there is a slim chance somehow the US gets out of this with the petrodollar intact and the world gets its vital resources flowing, but what is the US willing to give Iran? Don’t worry, we have the art of the deal genius to influence how this plays out.
DonBoy30@reddit
Trump will call it a victory. His supporters will call it an amazing success. Meanwhile the remaining 8.7 billion people will see it as a colossal fuck up that didn’t escalate further, and will continue to lose respect for Trump, his administration, and the American empire.
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
Dollar goes down and we may end up in a very violent economic depression
Joe_Exotics_Jacket@reddit
depression is a strong word. More like stagnation. It’s not like the whole world would sell its dollars in the next year, yes more global trades will not be denominated in dollars but that will gradually weaken the dollar’s purchasing power.
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
Hope you’re right, I think we have too much national debt for it not to sink the dollar and lose our credit. What happens when we can’t borrow more money or it looks like we can’t pay back our loans…
roidbro1@reddit
https://youtu.be/5umJ63d3rzQ
A lot expect this is the more likely outcome firstly that will then cascade.
jizzlevania@reddit
if it destroys the petrodollar, it's destroys the US dollar. The US dollar isn't backed by gold, it's backed by gulf state petroleum, which is why we militarily protect global oil shipments.
JapaneseCDBonusTrack@reddit
8.7 billion already? Feels like we hit 8 billion yesterday
AngusScrimm---------@reddit
A lot of words, not one mention of Israel. If Israel chooses to continue attacking, they will do so.
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
Us and Israel are basically one and the same bruh, i don’t think Iran will let the US off the hook if Israel is still attacking.
Informal-Sea-6047@reddit
Isreal is still attacking.
Known_Expression1308@reddit
the war isnt over. This is likey just a breath of fresh air before the wildfire hits
Informal-Sea-6047@reddit
The ceasefire already ended. Saudi east west pipeline got hit. UAE has had 17 drone strikes. Isreal attacking Lebanon. Peace lasted less than 12 hours. Why the west media isn't reporting this is crazy.
wafflington@reddit
Do not worry, nothing ever happens. Stuff will get more expensive, but that will be it.
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
We didn’t enter a depression from Covid. What happens if the dollar gets wrecked or if food supply is severly short or nations can get the oil they need. It’ll look like Covid, but there won’t be the reopening relief with subsequent inflated prices we can still swing (barely) .
AgeofVictoriaPodcast@reddit
So the basic plan in most developed economies seems to be to eat the higher prices by letting the population pay them, and avoiding an accelerated transition to a renewables based economy or any kind of serious structural reform. Hence the middle class will be further crushed, extreme inequality will skyrocket, and the billionaire class will hope that the "surplus" population will die off once replaced by automation & AI.
Positive_Garlic5128@reddit
i feel like you're probably right but does this all not feel soul-crushing to accept? is there no hope I hate living so much, i dont know how people just keep doing it
ideknem0ar@reddit
Totally. The inexorable slow grind of this ongoing immiseration and collapse is hell on the mind and spirit. At 50, I'm so tired. It's been happening over my whole life but 9/11 kicked the process into a higher gear.
nothankeww@reddit
47, Im also tired friend
ideknem0ar@reddit
The physical and mental exhaustion is so real, especially the last 5 years. I know a lot is due to advancing into menopause but, if anything, it HAS clarified so much about my personal & professional priorities and how I want to expend my time and energy in the last 2-3 decades of my life. I hit the wall and cracked around 48. Have picked up most of the pieces at 50. At this point the plan is to put in basic effort into my job, get a good $$ cushion, retire at 55 with whatever bennies they provide at the time and YOLO the rest of my natural lifespan in hermithood. I work with some people who are still coming into the office at 70 because they honestly can't imagine doing anything else with their day - they've even said so! Like, good for them if that's their jam, but jfc I'd rather be taken out back and shot than have that attitude in this timeline.
nothankeww@reddit
you give me a single little shard of hope because I am fucking totally at the end now of giving a fuck about literally anything, including looking for my next job because I was terminated randomly without cause. I am collecting unemployment, but it doesn’t even cover my rent. This shit show of a life. I never even asked to be here for excuse me. What the fuck am I doing this for like I am alllll outta fucks to give completely completely completely. I am going to probably party till the money runs out and when I say party, I mean, swing between crippled, frozen in my bed, crying and then fighting for my life out of spite and primal fucking fear.
ideknem0ar@reddit
God, that sucks. I'm so sorry - getting upended like that at this point in life is brutal. Stressors that I used to be able to roll with just knock me for a loop these days. I'm pretty much in an undiluted GenX Fuck All This mood about everything unless I'm at home, doing the stuff I want to do. Been working since I was 13. I'm fucking TIRED. The world's gone to shit. This keyboard/email jockey/librarian concierge service is for the birds. They are The Worst. Give me 5 minutes with them in a rage room.
FWIW I saw this article linked somewhere in a thread today. Being a meatbag on a rock with no delusions of "legacy" & "purpose" is something I've rolled around in my head since 2020. Firmly planting my flag in that ground now. I'm doing what I can to get through the next 4 years and then hightail it and live frugal until the money runs out. When shit gets real bad and the body/mind is failing, my end of life plan is to head out to my garden during a heatwave, drop from sunstroke and let Nature clean me up. I'll be dead before anyone finds me anyway and the garden gate will be open, so the buffet will be open to all. If my one purpose is to eventually feed some foxes, coyotes and crows, well, that's fine.
I hope things turn for the better for you but you're right to rage. This existence we're expected to be happy about performing, hitting all our marks like actors with a script we didn't even write is stupidly unfair. One of dad's swimmers gets lucky and you're drafted into a tour of duty that never fucking ends.
AgeofVictoriaPodcast@reddit
I’m with you there. I’m 48 and I’m sick of the endless “once in a generation” crisis and the constant “a few more years of making the tough choices and necessary sacrifices to build a prosperous economy”
But I take joy in my children, in cooking my own meals, racing history, doing my podcast, playing piano, and enjoying movies at home. Keep a stiff upper lip and never give up.
ideknem0ar@reddit
Yeah, I've basically retreated into the things that help me directly (food gardening, DIY) and give me joy (cats, puzzles, books, movies). Being in the country also helps (pop. 1.1k). The noise and clutter of being surrounded by people would really do me in. Carving out a little slice of peace as the world goes down the crapper.
Positive_Garlic5128@reddit
I wanna try doing that but I get plagued with so much guilt when I try I feel like i should dedicate my life to making things better but its so scary that I get paralyzed at the first step and I dont know what we're supposed to even do in situations like this
ideknem0ar@reddit
I look at it as taking stock of what energy I have (very gd little). If I pour it out into community or whatever, there's nothing left for my own needs. My job basically drains 2/3rd to 3/4ths of my daily battery charge and I have a full raft of projects and work to keep the small homestead going, so there's nothing left to donate & I'd be in the energy-level red every day until I cracked. (Been there, done that. Never again.)
I'll feed and adopt stray cats and that's how I'm making things better, for the critters who have always been "acceptable" collateral damage for crap human decisions. A lot of the online hectoring about community is purely human-focused and that's something I really really don't want to expend my remaining daily battery charge on. But I lack the "I like people" gene anyway. If you're a people person, then go ahead and do what you can but definitely don't guilt yourself about whatever you do or don't do. This timeline is bad enough, so beating yourself up will make it worse to get through the day, especially since you're so young and have a lot more years ahead of you.
nothankeww@reddit
I know how you feel. It’s a slow fucking torturous trudge every day like what the fuck am I doing here? Especially when we can see the endings. It’s tough.
Positive_Garlic5128@reddit
I'm 18, and I dont know how to keep going Do you have any advice? Especially when everyone around me seems so blissfully unaware and doesn't understand why I'm so anxious all the time
wafflington@reddit
The dollar is fine and USA produces enough food and oil domestically to ward off mass starvation and shortages. There are many collapse things happening, but a random Middle East war is not it I promise. If anything it will kick off clean energy investments and encourage divestment from oil
RoyalZeal@reddit
I think you forgot your /s there mate.
AdmiralAsshat69@reddit
I don't think the US can afford to keep up the pretence anymore. The military will eventually retreat to the Americas or risk losing ships and aircraft it can no longer replace in a reasonable timeframe.
Joe_Exotics_Jacket@reddit
No one is sinking US ships in the near future. American force projection is still pretty good (though expensive). Down some hardware sure but losing 13 soldiers over a month of trading missiles is still excellent.
Professional-Art8449@reddit
They had to send an aircraft carrier home because they deployed it so long it was no longer liveable.
AdmiralAsshat69@reddit
Seems to me they did it by keeping their distance (ships retreated well out of range, aircraft launching from Europe). They agreed to a ceasefire once standoff munitions started running out. An actual invasion .would require closer combat and I suspect that within a few months some of the latest Chinese/Russian systems will fall off a truck somewhere near Tehran, which will change the balance of power. The US did take losses too, if an aircraft carrier has a "laundry fire" and can't deploy for two years, it doesn't really matter if it sinks.
Everything I saw indicated they couldn't replace their ammunition quickly enough (and this jives with the same problems in supplying Ukraine). If you look at the sheer volume of equipment and personnel they committed to the Iraq War vs what they had in this one, it's a pretty severe fall, and it does not appear that they have much more available. The size of the Navy and the actual number of ships available for deployment (ie, not being repaired or mothballed) seems much smaller too. They had to pull forces out of Asia and Europe to cobble together a big enough fleet and then obviously determined it still wasn't enough.
It looked to me like they backed off because they would have (or at least could have) taken some major losses and it doesn't look like they can replace them. The power of the dollar will be diminished by this conflict too, so there are some serious questions about how long the US can afford all this.
Pogglethebestest@reddit
We might stop active bombing but will provide consistent coverage for Israel to keep doing whatever the hell it wants.
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
At this point what Israel does will be seen as US aggression imo
extraneouspanthers@reddit
As it should. It’s basically a US military base
EmpireStrikes1st@reddit
Here are a few outcomes I foresee:
MAGA faithful will continue to rationalize the threat of nuclear genocide as a negotiation tactic.
The only thing close to a good outcome is to remove Trump from office. I don't see that happening because there isn't much political benefit from JD Vance or anyone else in his orbit. They hitched their wagon to Trump, by this point, there is no way any of them can get elected dogcatcher. And on top of that, they would have to literally apologize to the world, and after decades of Conservatives saying that Liberals are always apologizing, well, that isn't happening either.
I do think AOC has a strong chance in 2028, assuming we have a country, let alone free and fair elections, because the Democratic party as a whole is just as unpopular as Trump, and she's been swimming against the current the whole time.
The truth is, the only way to fix this would be with a time machine, but since we can't do that, we NEED to get off of fossil fuels. We need the moonshot program we should have had in the 1980s. We need to build walkable cities with high-rise buildings, and a network of HSR. Can it happen? It has to.
0xdeadbeef6@reddit
Trump wants nothing more but to walk away from this and declare victory, and go back to much less harrowing ways to steal money. Israel and all the other ghouls in Trumps cabinet are slathering at the mouth about taking out the Iranians. Once Trump stops being squeamish about oil prices, it'll start back again. I bet by the weekend, personally.
Tonsilith_Salsa@reddit
We will have alienated every single one of our allies and the world will see that our military is not the invincible superpower it claims to be. The world will move off the dollar. The GCC will stop investing in our AI stocks, which are quite literally propping up our entire economy, and we're going to be in a deep recession/depression that will take decades to recover from, if we recover at all.
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
I can see that playing out
Long-Impression-5119@reddit
I think good is an outcome from this, collapse possibly starting to end finally imo
DissedFunction@reddit
donald trump is a mentally deranged sexual criminal. Charlie Manson might have done a better job dealing with this war. But unlike Charlie, trump was sure that he and his family would make $$ off other people dying.
when we talk the epstein class we're talking about people who view others as expendable and as we're their playthings and tools to make $.
wolfy1194@reddit
Dont forget how we got here
https://youtube.com/shorts/DdunFRrz1nI?si=IssVtlv4A_r4TUUa
Locoman7@reddit
Further entrenchment of the wealth inequality across the world.
guyseeking@reddit
Damn
You can always count on this as the inevitable outcome of any crisis ever huh
nothankeww@reddit
that’s the whole point of any crisis. That’s why they start them.
pan_ananas@reddit
Yep. The money must flow.
billcube@reddit
Quick get something to distract him and let the troops come back home. Give him a Nutella Peace Prize, anything, get him new furniture catalog for the ballroom, quick!
nothankeww@reddit
nutella peace prize 🍫 🏆 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Pootle001@reddit
IMO the collapse of the petrodollar could cause the US to default.
AniketOP0@reddit
Opinion on the ceasefire agreement and pakistan and china’s involvement
duhdamn@reddit
Both warring parties needed to relieve some pressure regarding the interruption in global oil supplies. Two weeks of oil flowing does that. Long term a cease fire solves nothing.
DisillusionedBook@reddit
It'll be like every other war in those areas that can never be rid of underlying causes (e.g. geography, religion, oil, money, water, food) ... rinse and repeat ad infinitum. All it will take is another power hungry/desperate leader to want power or hold on to power who will once again demonise or use the people at the bottom as cannon fodder.
Unfortunately humans are going to be humans until we wipe ourselves out or we survive long enough for our brains to evolve past the ancient desire for greed, power and killing to get it.
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
I disagree, this war has a time limit due to the nature of oil powering every nations economy and the hit to food production from lack of fertilizer.
There are two madmen looking at each other and the world is holding their breath hoping one of them blinks and folds before the world collapses.
How many more months can we afford before gas is prohibitively expensive or food supply is threatened.
DisillusionedBook@reddit
Then the war (or "Military Operation") will end... but it will start up again when they want. Afganistan has been fought over over and over again, same with middle east, same with every damned place ever. Religion and goons like Rump and Bibi are a dime a dozen. Bibi has wanted this for decades, he will still want more afterwards because no evidence is needed for a reason... and there's always a low IQ psychopath willing to go along with it as a distraction when he believes he can do no wrong, shoot someone on 5th Avenue and still be voted for, in his own words.
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
These other nations at war don’t effect the global economy like Iran has a hold off, because the strait. If it wasn’t that, not that many people would even care similar to other conflicts.
DisillusionedBook@reddit
Russia/Ukraine - food prices, many other nations have similar "bread basket of the world" effects.
War with any other petro states will have the same effect on oil. The middle east is a revolving door of conflict always has been always will.
I've been around on this planet long enough to have seen it all before, and to see people in power and the people voting for them (or allowing them in a dictatorship_ not learn any lessons. That's my point.
Sure other wars can be easily ignored because like just a genocide or two in poor countries with no oil, but my point is that they are all a symptom of humanity's inate capacity to just keep doing it over and over again.
Iran had no reason, it has had no result that makes sense, and if anything Iran is in a better position now... and so already the seeds are sown for part 2, and 3...
Positive_Garlic5128@reddit
But how do you cope and continue going on with your day to day while knowing things can get so much worse and that so much terrible is happening?
jacobean___@reddit
The two mad men are on the same side in this current debacle
Tetraphosphate_@reddit
Reminds me of this song Fabulous Disaster by Exodus.
"They spend all their time building missiles so people die. What kind of life do you expect for us to live? We're angered by fear, because the time is near, When some lunatic will finally pull the plug."
"So try to relax, face up to the facts, You'll either die or the fallout will rot you in your tracks. There'll be no tomorrow, only pain and sorrow, 'Cause our futures in the hands of a raving madman."
mellbs@reddit
My ancient desire is to eat fruit under a tree man idk
DisillusionedBook@reddit
People like us don't end up in power. The rest of us are sheep. Voting against our best interests.
Ze_Wendriner@reddit
He might just walk away and pretend that nothing has ever happened
ThrowinA2shade@reddit (OP)
And that would fuck the dollar as Iran will only let ships paying in euro, yuan thru and nations will abide since the US retreated and they want their oil.