In the 1990s, music executives told Sarah McLachlan that concert lineups and radio stations wouldn’t feature two women in a row because it was not profitable. In response, she founded Lilith Fair, a music festival featuring only female artists, which became the top-grossing touring festival of 1997.
Posted by kooneecheewah@reddit | Xennials | View on Reddit | 120 comments
bedtimedoesntsuitme@reddit
We need this now
Orvan-Rabbit@reddit
"It wouldn't be profitable." Source- just vibes.
Miami_Mice2087@reddit
in the 90s they seriously hardly ever played women on the radio except the country stations, and even then, almost never 2 women in a row. Not until like 97ish, when women in country broke containment and became one of the most popular genres overall, not just in country. Shania Twain, Reba, women like her started getting played on the regular stations.
AquariusRising1983@reddit
I don't know, Alanis Morissette, TLC, Jewel, Paula Cole, Lisa Loeb, Melissa Etheridge, Mariah Carey, Celene Dion, Gwen Stefani (No Doubt), Janet Jackson, Jennifer Lopez, Whitney Houston, Sheryl Crow,, Fiona Apple, Sinead O'Connor, and Madonna might beg to differ.
And those were just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.
Miami_Mice2087@reddit
beg to differ about what?
binary_agenda@reddit
The 1950s-70s marketing research told them so. You can get pretty far by being the established party even if you're completely out of touch with the market you're trying to reach. You can always extract cash from your aging out demographic.
Least-Task276@reddit
Just talking out of my ass here, so I could be completely wrong. This is for entertainment purposes only.
1950's marketing executive: "We talked to only men and they said they aren't interested in female entertainers."
AquariusRising1983@reddit
Absolutely this. And our reply:
AquariusRising1983@reddit
Source-
kbrick1@reddit
Source - his penis
mcsweetin@reddit
Source - his micro penis
tklite@reddit
Two women in a row is generally not a profit event for penises.
FoppyRETURNS@reddit
But a good ROI
Small-ish@reddit
Lilith Fair Performers, Attendees Achieve Largest-Ever Synchronized Ovulation
https://theonion.com/lilith-fair-performers-attendees-achieve-largest-ever-1819564825/
SweetyDarlingLuLu@reddit
No tattoos on anyone. I remember these concerts and the vibes well.
wizardofmops@reddit
I went to Lilith Fair in 1998 in Darien, NY
Chicken_Water@reddit
Same and made it to the tibetan freedom concert that year in DC. Think I got dragged to horde that year too at Darien.
goat_penis_souffle@reddit
I remember that Tibetan Freedom concert tour with Beastie Boys and Rage Against the Machine headlining. Had an extra ticket to the meadowlands show because my friends parents got freaked out that there would be a riot and wouldn’t let her go with us.
RelevantNothing4653@reddit
Tibetan Freedom concert 98 was when several in the crowd were struck by lightning
hi984390@reddit
Haaaaaa was that after the riots at UConn where they set cars on fire? What was with the ‘riots’ back then?
goat_penis_souffle@reddit
Didn’t see any at the meadowlands that’s for sure. Must have required a separate ticket or something.
Neil_sm@reddit
You have to pay extra for riot seats
attigirb@reddit
I went in 1998 in Cincinnati with my mom! I saw Sarah, Natalie Merchant, Emmylou Harris, Luscious Jackson, and Desiree. It was awesome. I wish I still had the t-shirt.
WorriedCrow2464@reddit
I went to Lilith Fair in 1999 in Camden, NJ
CauliflowerBoth866@reddit
1999 San Diego. Luscious Jackson, Dixie Chicks, Sheryl Crow...all great. Then miss McLachlan showed up with her angelic voice and blew them all away.
WholesaleBees@reddit
1998 Lilith Fair in Nashville. It was such a beautiful experience!
South_Dakota_Boy@reddit
I also saw it in 1998 in Bonner Springs KS.
Saw Sarah McLachlan, Natalie Merchant, Indigo Girls, Sinéad O'Connor, and Me'Shell Ndegeocello.
I was mostly there for Sarah, but really fell in love with Indigo Girls. They really killed it live, and Shaming of the Sun was a great album.
kbrick1@reddit
Oh my gosh, yes!! Indigo Girls are amazing
ScientistAsHero@reddit
I got shit for it when I was a teenage boy back in the day, but I always liked a lot of Sarah McLaughlin's music. Hold On is beautiful, as is Possession. I was the weirdo listening to Korn one minute and the Cranberries the next, lol.
Curious-Basket-7934@reddit
You're a man ahead of your time.
BlueSnaggleTooth359@reddit
Or behind.
First wave Gen X was way way less segmented by sex for music than Xennials from what I saw, even less than Millennials. When I went back to college in the Xennial era, I was shocked by how many restrictions there were on what mainstream guys were supposed to (openly - some had secret headphones only playlists heh) listen to compared to in earlier X times (80s/early 90s). I mean there was a little of that back then too, but way, way less extreme in the mainstream crowd. It seemed to loosen up a little the deeper you got into Millennials (from what I saw a little in grad school) but I think still not back to earlier X levels.
The mainstream in first wave X wasn't so segmented by type or sex. Guy, girl, whatever the type mainstream might easily possibly listen to all of this (some a little more than others) and far more: Journey one second, Def Leppard the next, Kate Bush the next, Van Halen the next, Warrant the next, Madonna the next, Poison, Susanne Vega, Bruce Springsteen, Heart, Phil Collins/Genesis, Samantha Fox, Duran Duran, Debbie Gibson, Tiffany, Aerosmith+RunDMC, Expose, Pat Benatar, Belinda Carlisle, Vixen, The Bangles, Poison, Whitesnake, Bon Jovi, Rick Astley, Naked Eyes, Stevie Nicks, The Psychedelic Furs, The Cure, Warrant, The Hooters, Tiffany, The Go-Gos, Billy Joel, Led Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, Tear For Fears, U2, Whitney Houston, Queen, Cyndi Lauper, Laura Branigan, Deniece Williams, The Human League, The Pretenders, Irene Cara, Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, KIm Wilde, Vangelis, John Waite, Taco, Grandmaster Flash, Queen, Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Kim Carnes, Dan Hartman, Bon Jovi, Starship, Billy Ocean, Aretha Franklin, Huey Lewis & The News, George Michael, Lisa Lisa, Olivia Newton-John, Pebbles, Sheen Easton, The Cars, a-ha, Prince, Michael Jackson, Motley Crue, Flock of Seagulls, Katrina And The Waves, Modern English, Crowded House, Berlin, Jeff Healy Band, The Buggles, Janet Jackson, AC/DC, Patti Smyth/Scandal, Fleetwood Mac, 70s Heart, The Clash, Blondie, Spandau Ballet, Bill Medley & Jennifer Warnes, T'Pau, The Motels, Tom Petty, ZZ Top, Bonnie Tyler, The Jets, The Pointer Sisters, Survivor, Glass Tiger, Don Henley, Chicago, Tone Loc, Richard Marx, Dexy's Midnight Runners, Hall & Oates, Quiet Riot, Ray Parker Jr, Christine McVie, Gun'sN'Roses, Nena, Sting/The Police, Bruce Hornsby & The Range, Billy Ocen, Steve Winwood, George Michael, OMD, Soft Cell, Rod Stewart, Roxette, Bananarama, Kool And The Gang, Eric Carmen, Wang Chung, Flock Of Seagulls, Level 42, Paula Abdul, Taylor Dayne, Missing Persons, Modern English, Boy Meets Girl, The Clash, John Parr, Eric Carmen, 'Til Tuesday, T'Pau, Simple Minds, INXS, ENYA, Tina Turner, Patti Labelle, David Lee Roth, etc.
And plenty enough later listened to (among other stuff) The Cranberries, The Corrs, Sarah McLaughlin, Faith Hill, Shania Twain, Sixpence None The Richer, Donna Lewis, Ace Of Base, Cathy Dennis, Mariah Carey, Alanis Morrisette, Jewel, No Doubt, Amy Grant, Fiona Apple, Paula Cole, Shawn Colvin, Sherryl Crow, Jennifer Paige, Natalie Merchant, Dione Farris, Nicki French, Garbage, Aaliyah, Hole, Sinead O'Conner, Wilson Phillips, Meredith Brooks, Lisa Loeb....
Ok_Breakfast5425@reddit
That's a nice list of vaugely 80s bands and artists, but how does that refute the post at hand that radio stations didn't play female artists back to back?
BlueSnaggleTooth359@reddit
It wasn't mean to refute the OP or anything.
I was just commenting on
and
and was just saying that the first guy's scenario wasn't just only something that developed later on post Xennials but that it had also been around before Xennials and to an even greater degree than post Xennials (core and later Millennials at least, I don't know so much about Z though so who knows in that case)
Neil_sm@reddit
Did you really type this whole list out of every 80s band you could think of, or was this an AI list?
BlueSnaggleTooth359@reddit
Not AI. Over time in responding to posts just built up a list of all the stuff the mainstream 80s teen crowd listened to a ton, adding a few more each time.
In the 80s people did tend to not be as often segmented into just one or two strict genre types or to only subsets or a few specific singers/bands of each genre, etc. A lot less than what I saw from many in the 90s 90s. Guys in particular seemed to listen to a much wider array of stuff as teens/college in the earlier X times than later on.
Turkatron2020@reddit
Turkatron2020@reddit
Exciting-Argument-67@reddit
Great point (AI help or not). There were lots of female-fronted bands in the '90s that were slightly manufactured, but mostly about the music. Liz Phair, Belly, Breeders, etc. Come late '90s into the 2000s, the female artists were so much more stylized, manufactured by execs, and all about maximizing sex appeal. And we lost something.
Thecalin33@reddit
...I still do
Fair_Blood3176@reddit
I got into a relatively new singer named Bishop Briggs and I looked her up on Wikipedia and turns out her real name is Sarah McLaughlin. Her parents literally named her after the artist and her stage artist name is named after her hometown in Scotland (if I'm remembering correctly). Thought that was cute af.
Her first album is stunning
pagan7poetry@reddit
Bishop Briggs is so good, thanks for the fun tidbit!
pagan7poetry@reddit
In the Lilith Fair documentary, they actually talk about how they had a decent fan base amongst men who were otherwise mostly metalheads. Listen to what you like, good for you for not giving into the small minded haters
Adrasteia-One@reddit
Man, we could have been friends, hehe. There was just so much good music back then.
Mad_Spaniel@reddit
Due South was my introduction to McLauchlan, with her featuring heavily in the soundtracks. Delerium's Silence featuring her vocals was also a massive dance track when the whole Ibiza thing took off.
WelcomingRapier@reddit
I went to Lilith Fair and I'm a dude and a metalhead,. No regrets whatsoever. Indigo Girls were especially good.
The 90's were really weird as far as music goes. So many different genres worked their way into the mainstream at some point. I mean for fucks sake, Chant went double platinum in 94 for fucks sake.
Awkward-Initiative28@reddit
Had a big crush on her around the time I was into Korn. Especially that Building A Mystery video.
BlueSnaggleTooth359@reddit
nice
(that actually would've gone done more easily had you been born 10 years earlier, at least in the mainstream crowd and so long as you didn't mainly hang in say some hardcore heavy metal crowd or something)
No_Flamingo9331@reddit
Lilith Fair was amazing, fuck I loved the entire lineup. Sarah is as genius as she is talented and gifted and I’ve basically obsessed with her since I was 14.
Ninjafrogg@reddit
I was there!
WasteOfBerries@reddit
I felt about as safe at Lilith Fair as I have at Pagan festivals, and I mean that as a compliment to both <3
graveybrains@reddit
It was like Opposite Day. As one of like fifty guys in the audience for Goodbye Earl I did not feel safe. At all.
Miami_Mice2087@reddit
i love that for you
Miami_Mice2087@reddit
accuradio.com has a lilith fair 25th anniversary playlist that I listen to when I want my lesbian acoustic chill music. And when I want to feel old as the hills.
ScreenTricky4257@reddit
It took me a long time to realize that Lilith Fair and Liz Phair weren't the same person.
Several-Guidance1299@reddit
My wife likes to talk about how Sarah was a regular customer at the store she used to work at. We're in Vancouver, where Sarsh is from. My wife said she is the nicest person. She's met her kids, and Sarah is just a normal, nice, Canadian gal, like my wife (and me).
Alexandratta@reddit
Meanwhile, when I was at Wacken 2024, I realized, entirely by accident, I was attending back to back to back female led bands...
Crystal Viper, Butcher Babies, Girlschool (I missed this one tbh - my buddies waned to see Vogelfrey on another stage), The Warning, Tina Guo, then checked out Van Canto (though that's hard to say that's female LED but female vocals... that said Van Canto is a band that doesn't work in an open air setting...)
bunsy19792020@reddit
I went in 1997, Milwaukee, Wisconsin! It was a blast! Everyone walking around with Biore pore strips and braiding each other's hair. What a time to be a teen!
JoshSidekick@reddit
Suck on that, Warped Tour
yespls@reddit
I worked at Lilith Fair when it was in Charlotte, it was a blast!
reluctantrevenant@reddit
Man I miss Lilith Fair.
Sabres00@reddit
I worked in radio in the 90s, at no point did we ever not play two female artists in a row.
In the late 90s when I worked in Nashville there was an ongoing issue that plagued the country music scene. In general male artists were significantly out drawing females artists by a wide margin. However when they looked at the data it was because women bought the majority of tickets for the male shows while the female shows tended to even out. Obviously I'm not including superstars or legacy acts, but there is data to back this up.
LLcoolDZ@reddit
90s Nashville radio is an anomaly imo. So many female superstars came out in country that decade you HAD to play two in a row. Not that it was a choice or a stand for feminism or anything.
Sabres00@reddit
I worked in alt/pop/mor radio in Buffalo NY, then moved to Nashville
LLcoolDZ@reddit
That’s crazy change in climate. Nice.
Danbarber82@reddit
The two touring festivals that ran the late 90s: Lilith Fair and Ozzfest.
pagan7poetry@reddit
Saw both, at the same venue!
Primary-Performer853@reddit
Music executives are the fucking devil.
1732PepperCo@reddit
Hear me out….a heavy metal festival with only girl bands or bands with female lead singers called Bitchfest.
urbanlife78@reddit
A reminder that executives are typically morons
bokehtoast@reddit
And men
dishwasher_mayhem@reddit
I am an older man. I can confirm.
Mike_Honcho_Summer@reddit
I guess the expert weighed in so we can all go home now.
PhilosopherDismal191@reddit
Why are you repeating him?
sysiphean@reddit
They already said that.
Mr_SunnyBones@reddit
Specifically US executives here , this idea wasn't something I ever saw in effect in Europe in the 90s.
Exciting-Argument-67@reddit
Yes, Europe just had tv shows with topless blondes bouncing around on a beach during primetime.
Totally different society, guys.
urbanlife78@reddit
True, I should clarify that I meant US executives because I am unfamiliar how they act in other countries
LLcoolDZ@reddit
Always find it fascinating that they did a ton of Lilith shows without violence or anything like that but Woodstock 99 couldn’t pull off one weekend without utter chaos and tragedy. Gee, wonder what the big difference was there….. 🤔
val0ciraptor@reddit
I wish they'd do it again but with a larger variety of genres. I want Natalie Imbrulia with a side of Poppy or Ecca Vandal.
AshDogBucket@reddit
Yes, at the time I remember thinking it was cool but also...as a rock girl... being kinda bummed that "women in music" was synonymous with "folk music." I didn't want to go watch their slow jams. I wanted a concert where women were ROCKING OUT. I was not exposed to many women artists who played the music I wanted to hear and that i aspired to play myself.
menunu@reddit
One of my top music experiences. 1998 - The Darian Lake show outside of Rochester. It was an incredible day and then I think later that summer they also had Alanis Morrissette do a show there as well. Great summer!!
SpaceToot@reddit
My first concert. I miss the "girl power," years.
AshDogBucket@reddit
Me too. I get frustrated by how hard it is to get my music app to understand that i don't want to hear all men all the time.
AshDogBucket@reddit
On behalf of women musicians everywhere who have had to work twice as hard to prove ourselves, who maybe even got kicked out of the band for being a girl back in high school... thanks Sarah ❤️
Awkward-Initiative28@reddit
The documentary is really good. It's on hulu.
chicagoredditer1@reddit
The documentary made me hella nostalgic for the good times of the late 90's.
adam5280@reddit
Agree with this!!! Great documentary.
tearlock@reddit
One of my best concert memories. The lineup was epic.
graveybrains@reddit
I only went the one time, but I remember the gender ratio being way more skewed towards women than what's in this picture.
chonky__chonker@reddit
I saw her perform in Melbourne Australia with Butterfly Boucher and it was a spectacular experience.
Fuck the execs, they don’t understand what women want to spend their money on.
Jayrandomer@reddit
I should have gone. A lot of those artists are still in heavy rotation on my phone
FoppyRETURNS@reddit
Yes. Sometimes the good ol' days sucked.
Environmental_Ant268@reddit
It's totally ok when women do it though
VividAd7961@reddit
Dude watch the documentary before making an ass of yourself.
Sufficient_Turn_9209@reddit
I went to the one in Houston in 1997. Our core friend group (five of us) started with RockFest in Dallas/Fort Worth first to kick off an entire summer of traveling and concerts as our last hurrah the summer after we graduated high school. It was the best summer of my life (as a kid) before we all split and went to different colleges. Then on with different lives. We never reconnected like that again. I only still talk with one of them a few times a year. One of them we lost to suicide in 2007, another we lost to a lifetime of drug dependency, and the rest of us moved around the country and just lost touch. They are bitter sweet memories now.
the_ballmer_peak@reddit
And I still get Lilith Fair and Liz Phair mixed up.
mothralad@reddit
I was there at the San Antonio show! A rainbow formed behind the audience in view of the stage and the opening acts were loving it. It was packed too - couldn't get anywhere close to the stage. I remember smoking cloves while watching. What a 90's memory.
fromthedarqwaves@reddit
I thought Lilith Fair was a person. I’m still not convinced she’s not.
veglove@reddit
I went in 1998! Los Angeles
Traditional_Isopod80@reddit
Yay!
BathAutomatic6972@reddit
That's not a crowd from Lilith fair.
Few_Improvement_6357@reddit
If you google the image number, you will find that it's a Rights Managed stock photo from Alamy (2f1x4a6) with the subject of Lilith Fair 1997, music, Gorge Amphitheater in Washington State. Where do you believe the image is from?
SpookySchatzi@reddit
I was visiting my Father in WA for a bit in the summer when this concert happened and I wanted to go so badly. They were giving away tickets on the local radio station and I tried so hard to score some to no avail. He had no interest in attending otherwise, so there was no hope for 13 year old me. Le sigh.
stryst@reddit
It was also one of, if not the first major womens music festival that didn't have explicit anti-trans rules.
this_knee@reddit
And in other news , also, it was not gross. It was quite great.
ScientistAsHero@reddit
Also, as it turns out, Chris Butz from my sophomore year in high school had nothing to do with actual butts.
this_knee@reddit
True , … True.
Verbull710@reddit
I love Surfacing and you can miss me with all the feminism 😆
sljxuoxada@reddit
I knew someone who worked on the tour (artist management), and he said it was the most sex he'd ever had in his life. Women were throwing themselves at him every stop on the tour. What women say they want, and what they respond to are two totally different things.
pseudonymmed@reddit
Not sure what you mean about women saying what they want.. you think women don’t want sex? I’m confused.
Verbull710@reddit
You can also miss me with the rampant unrepentant sluttery (male and female), as well 😆
sljxuoxada@reddit
Aww...do you feel like you missed out? Sounds like it was one hell of a party.
Verbull710@reddit
I definitely didn't miss out 👍
Hello_Hangnail@reddit
Sounds slutty
Verbull710@reddit
Correct
Hello_Hangnail@reddit
Shockingly, women are people and not a monolith 🤯
HouseofMarg@reddit
Sounds like there’s no contradiction there, the gals at the festival dug a guy who was open minded enough to work Lilith Fair. That would be a green flag for any feminist not wanting to hook up with a chauvinist
sljxuoxada@reddit
You nailed it. He's a great guy and he had an absolute blast on that tour. His stories are epic.
brakeb@reddit
I got to see her at Jingle Ball in 2004 in San Diego (along with Duran Duran, Jason Mraz). I love her music so much...
paintedwoodpile@reddit
I went to the first year in Pittsburgh. Myself and a couple other art student guys. Rained like crazy then it stopped. Drenched but felt like a piece of meat. Got so much attention just from being there as a straight 20 year old male who came for the music. I was a 6 on my best day but felt like a 10 there. Great performances by all the artist. Got to hear Jewel yodel. That was dope.