What are some maneuvers that aren’t taught anymore?
Posted by Sorry_Priority8144@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 177 comments
During my commercial checkride the DPE showed me some maneuvers that he had to do during his training. He showed me dutch roll(s) and explained one where he had to draw a triangle in the air with the nose of the plane. But it made me curious what are some other maneuvers that the old timers were taught that got phased out?
WhenInDoubtGoAround@reddit
Spin recovery training really needs to make a comeback in PPL/CPL training. A brief demonstration isn’t the same as actually experiencing and recovering from a spin. When pilots feel it firsthand, the fear goes down and the understanding goes way up, something that can make a real difference in preventing stall-spin accidents.
0621Hertz@reddit
I understand that’s something the Canadians love to harp on, but expecting 250 hour pilots to teach spins to 15 hour pilots is going to cause more spin related deaths than deaths from actual accidental spins.
Nevermind only certain airframes are spin rated.
The best way to go about this is make this a required discussion item in the oral portion.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Then why aren't there a ton of smoking holes in Canada and Europe?
Canada has about 1/15th the number of pilots as the USA, so maybe it's hidden in smaller numbers? We can look over a long time period to see.
Canada also has had 3 spin training induced fatalities that I can find since 1991 (how far back the accident investigations go online).
2 were from spins initiated below the recommended POH altitude. These were in 2000 and 2023. Following the 2000 crash there was a change in the TC recommended altitude (which the 2023 crash did not follow).
1 (1998) was caused by a jammed rudder due to an improperly repaired empennage the day before. (Student survived and explained the recovery attempted which was consistent with the evidence showing a jammed rudder past the stops and unauthorized repairs by the school).
So if we extrapolate out for the US pilot population - that's 45 spin accidents over 32 years, for an annual accident rate of 1.4 accidents per year.
If people initiated spins at or above the POH recommended altitude, then 2/3 of those would have been preventable, bringing the fatal accident rate down to 0.47 due to maintenance induced failures.
This compares to the 300-320 ish fatal accidents in the US annually. So statistically a very small proportion of fatal accidents. Of note, I see that 25% of fatal accidents in the USA are related to stall/spins, and TC says it's 13.8% in Canada.
We can also look at military flight training, where all students are spinning the T-6. That's a lot of spins a year, but not many fatalities from spin training.
I've heard (but not seen the report) that the NTSB had since recommended the FAA reintroduce spin training for PPLs. Maybe this Requirements will change?
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
Spin recovery isn't in the syllabus for PPL or CPL in Europe.
You only have to do it as part of A-UPRT training before starting a first multi-pilot type rating, but for a weekend PPL or someone that does GA work with a CPL ... no spin needed.
Most people get into spins at low altitude anyway, either from a stall on base-to-final turn, or trying to turn back or otherwise mismanaging an EFATO scenario. In both of those cases, you're dead either way, if you enter into a spin, regardless of how much training you've had in spin recovery.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
Nearly all EU-UK glider clubs require recurrent spin training during annual 'field checks' needed to for aerotow-winch privileges.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
Yeah, gliders are different. I suppose you're much more likely to spin in a glider, since you're flying closer to stall speeds in normal flight compared to when flying powered aircraft.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
I also fly tailwheel airplane. The scenarios for fatal spin in airplane and gliders are different, though they both spin on base to final turn in the pattern.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Many more on departure than base to final.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
Gliders reliably do the impossible turn 150-200 AGL, though some gliders still spin. The maneuver is taught and practiced before first solo and instructors pull the rope release without warning from the backseat from various altitudes and positions below pattern altitude. And of course gliders rarely botch a go-around by forgetting to reset the flaps.
Most glider accidents happen because we repeat the same old familiar and preventable dumb mistakes.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
It's not good that most US pilots are afraid of spins. Panic could kill them if-when the spin happens. The US inadvertently teaches pilots to be afraid of spins. That seems crazy.
mustang__1@reddit
Honestly... I went years without ever seeing a wing drop. Then on a check out flight so I could use a local 172 the instructor had me do a deep stall, may have been a turning stall. Wasn't coordinated, dropped a wing, said "fuck!... don't touch the ailerons". And... finally saw what I was always warned about. I trained in an Sr20 which doesn't really drop a wing, and had flown a bit in PA28's which won't drop a wing even when really cross controlled (i tried...).
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
if I was this student I'd be in jail for murder or arson or some such. that's fucking crazy to live in an accident like that!
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Oh absolutely. Hope that school immediately went under.
scul86@reddit
The Air Force does that everyday. A new FAIP might be slightly over 250 hours, but they're still a brand new instructor with less than 2 years of experience.
0621Hertz@reddit
A brand new Cessna CFI is a whole different thing than someone who is a FAIP who went thought UPT.
In addition to what rougemenace said, you’re spinning the T-6 at 15,000-18,000 feet and they have ejection seats with bold face instructing to pull the handle at 5,000 feet.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Yeah, but the descent rate is WAY higher, the forces are much higher and it's much more disorienting.
I've had my head knocked off the canopy once or twice or thirty times.
roguemenace@reddit
Being blunt, the air force through it's selection process and the need to keep up with the pace of training has much better pilots than civvy side.
differentiable@reddit
Except we literally do spin training with no annual deaths from it
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Sure, but your amount of PPL training in a given year probably doesn't exceed that of most individual states.
differentiable@reddit
We issue 3-4K PPLs per year, and have only had two deaths from spin training in the last +55 years. Both of whom initiated the manoeuvre below 700-1000’ AGL which is illegal and stupid. It’s not an insignificant success rate, especially per capita
always_gone@reddit
To put that in perspective: the FAA issued >30k PPLs in 2023 and again in 2024.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Ok, so with 10x the licenses issued, let's take a look.
I see 3 Canadian spin training induced accidents from 1991 (how far back the online reports go) - 2026.
1 was from a mechanical failure due to an improperly installed rudder component and shoddy maintenance at the flight school.
2 were from spins initiated below the recommended altitude.
So the annual rate is 3/35, and if we eliminate the one's with blatant disregard for the POH and Flight Training Guide, 1/35.
Multiple that out to account for the larger US population, that's 10 accidents in 35 years for the US, for an annual rate of 0.29 accidents per year.
You have 300-320 fatalities a year in GA in the USA.
FAA says 25% are due to stall spins. Of note, TC says theirs is 13.8%.
So 75-80 fatalities a year in the USA due to stall spins
That is 263-280x more deaths from spins in the wild than spins in training.
I don't believe that there were more fatalities in training than there were in the GA fleet.
And if TC has half the rate of stall spin fatalities, it's worth examining why.
differentiable@reddit
I get it. The quality control of flight schools degrade with an increase in training/population. Whatever it is, and it’s not necessarily spin training, you guys have +50% the fatality rate in GA. I personally found spin training to be extremely valuable and I credit a lot of my confidence in VFR flying to it which hopefully keeps me safer. And it’s fun as fuck
randylush@reddit
This is the actually honest reason why you guys harp on spin training. Which is fine.
flyby2412@reddit
I imagine that’s also because the amount of PPLs very heavily outweighs the amount of CFIs. Maybe the chance for a spin death/accident is very low but rolling more dice may not be the answer.
Although having students experience a Spin I agree with. My instructor did that to me. Not sure how to “guarantee” an event free spin for both pilot and plane
mikeh0677@reddit
Altitude, plenty of altitude
flyby2412@reddit
Altitude won’t matter my wings rip off due to abuse and wear T_T
nesargent@reddit
That’s a deadly mindset. Correlation doesn’t imply causation.
KingJellyfishII@reddit
I was taught spinning in a glider by someone with probably less than 200 hours total. provided it's at a safe height it doesn't seem crazy to me.
Tradezulu@reddit
Check the stats… Canadians don’t die from spin training.
And it is extremely helpful. Pre-solo at the PPL I had to perform 5 spin recovery in a row to get signed off and now at the CPL level, understanding how to enter and hold a spin ensures I can recognize the symptoms well in advance.
If you can’t enter and recover a spin in Canada, you have no business having a CPL.
awh@reddit
Do we still have to do spin recovery for PPL checkride? I seem to recall that when I started my training in 1999, it was required but by the time I took my checkride, it was no longer a required item.
Even so, I had to do it enough times that it's now burned into my subconscious -- I was away for flying for 13 years and still did a spin recovery without issue the first time during my recurrency training.
Tradezulu@reddit
Not on checkride, just need to show it for pre-solo check.
throwaway5757_@reddit
It already is
WhenInDoubtGoAround@reddit
But it says spin awareness, not actual spin demonstration and recovery training.
throwaway5757_@reddit
I’m replying in regard to the comment saying it should be in the oral, which it is.
Double-Ad9382@reddit
I think that’s the actual reason the FAA doesn’t require spin training, and just spin awareness training. More accidents were happening during spin training than were happening under “normal” flight conditions.
TheVillianOfValley@reddit
Cessna superiority 😎
shadeland@reddit
The place I trained at 15 years ago said they weren't wild about spin training because they said it was hard on the gyros.
They let me do it (with an instructor) and I'm glad I was able to do it. Scared the bejesus out of me though.
WhenInDoubtGoAround@reddit
Hard on the gyros? Did they tell why it was on them?
tomdarch@reddit
I get that not all CFIs are 100% up to demonstrating or teaching it safely. But I absolutely am going to do spin recovery training at a local acrobatics school and some sort of GA-oriented UPRT.
throwaway5757_@reddit
I agree, but aircraft availability to do spin training in is not as easy to come by, as a lot of trainers aren’t spin rated, my school’s fleet included.
WhenInDoubtGoAround@reddit
My school has regular 172s and 152s, and that it. We frequently spin them both.
IrishWake_@reddit
We fly 172S model and it’s a PITA to get it loaded in utility category. We used to have a bird with no back seat that was easier but its since been installed.
Older model 172s are easier to load to utility, but even then, I had so much fun doing my spin training in a Citabria, i recommend to all my students they find one or a Decathalon to do it in.
nhorvath@reddit
I recall reading that more people died in spin training than in spin accidents.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
I made a long post about it just now.
Canada produces 1/15th the pilots the USA does.
Between 1991 to 2026 I can find 3 fatal accidents from spin training (1998, 2000, 2023).
1998 was from maintenance being done wrong resulting in a jammed rudder.
2000 and 2023 are from initiation a spin below the recommended altitude.
The US has 300-320 fatalities a year, the FAA says 25% are from stall/spins (75-80).
3 accidents in 35 years * 15x higher training volume in the USA is 1.28 fatal accidents a year from spin training, which would be 0.42 if you remove the two which did not follow the POH or Flight Instructor's guide.
0.42 <<<< 80.
akav8r@reddit
How many of those were spins from unrecoverable altitude though? I doubt many people are getting into a spin over 5000AGL.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
I don't know, the statistics don't have that granularity.
But the argument that "spin training was killing more people than spins were" doesn't seem to hold up.
And the FAA says the US fatal accident rate from stall spins is 25% of accidents while TCs says theirs is 13.8%.
Could be small numbers masking a common trend.
Or could be a difference in reporting requirements.
Or it could be significant and represent less hesitation to stomp on the rudder to stop a stall spin.
I have 3 dead friends from stall spins, 2 from engine failures after takeoff (same plane) and another from spatial disorientation. So I'd be very happy to drive this accident type downwards.
muffintop782@reddit
I whole heartedly agree. The first time I had to do a spin I was terrified. By the time 4th or 5th time it was just another maneuver to recover from.
BELFORD16@reddit
Aren’t Canadians the ones that won’t actually let you shut an engine down on a twin for training purposes? That seems a lot more real and relevant than mandating spins. Afterall, we do already have full stalls required and spin awareness. Full spins are up to the discretion of the instructor. I always taught them to any student that wanted to see them AND I didn’t think would go out and try it for funsies/show off.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
I went and looked at the instructor guide.
It mentions it was due to cold weather training and those engines being damaged and/or not coming back on when restarted and balancing that safety risk vs training.
So it seems you can do it, but it's not recommended and the flight examiner will only do it if the POH specifically recommends shutting off the engine via mixture - ICO.
True-Tree1901@reddit
I can’t speak to the present Canadian standards but when I began my PPL flight training in 1987, spin training was standard and something we were required to also practice on solo outings as well. While doing my multi-engine rating, we did do a full engine shutdown at least once and also a couple of years later during type-specific for a job flying Piper Navajos & Chieftains.
Choose_right@reddit
Except that most stall-spin accident can’t be recovered from. The FAA knows that stal-spin PREVENTION is vastly superior knowledge than an actual spin
weaselkeeper@reddit
Prior to the late 50’s or early 60’s all GA aircraft were certified for light aerobatics and spins, rolls and loops were taught to PPL students.
adventuresofh@reddit
Yep. The first few Stinson 108s were aerobatic - I have an owners manual that gives entry speeds for a number of aerobatic maneuvers. The only difference between those and later models are extra reinforcements for the windshield (I don’t think you could get a Stinson to move fast enough to cave in the windshield)
Somewhere down the line those permissions got revoked - now they are all approved for spins (which mine refuses to do) but not any acro. I think Piper sent out a service letter about it when they owned the TCDS? A shame - they have such nice aileron control that I bet they would roll beautifully.
weaselkeeper@reddit
I learned to fly in a Luscombe 8E and have had a Stinson 108-3 for many years, we live in the Sierra Nevada foothills and go camping in it a few times a month spring-fall. 108’s aren’t fast but you can land them anywhere and they will carry a lot of use load.
adventuresofh@reddit
I’m doing an engine overhaul on mine right now but normally fly it 80-100 hours a year. We do a lot of camping in Oregon and Idaho in the summer. I’ve flown all over the PNW and hope to make OSH this year for the anniversary year.
It’s really an underrated airplane. I’ve never had an issue loading it up, and I love how it flies. I have ~900lb useful in mine.
StrikeAPose69_420@reddit
I'm still a student pilot, but I'm lucky that my first instructor was an old dude that insisted that we go up in a spin rated 152 and do fully developed spin recoveries. Amazing how easy it is in a stable airframe as long as you keep your nerves in check. Obviously a tall order if it ever happens to you unexpectedly. But from my limited experience in 152s and 172s, you really have to be completely distracted or irresponsible to get into that situation.
RIP comma and hyphen usage, sorry gents
segelflugzeugdriver@reddit
Everyone should do a spin just to see what you have to do to actually get in one, I agree! People living in fear haven't seen the light 😉
TangoIndiaTango420@reddit
Man that sounds extremely fun
Vegetable_Log_3837@reddit
RC planes are cheap these days, and a basic trainer can do all of those.
I would happily pay $500 for an hour discovery flight that included loops and rolls.
Hoping to take an SIV class on my paraglider this summer!
segelflugzeugdriver@reddit
Rc planes aren't the same lol
Vegetable_Log_3837@reddit
More fun than puttering around straight and level in a 172. I found my discovery flight to be pretty boring, similar to driving a car on the highway. Learned paragliding instead. A few loops would have made for a whole different story.
TangoIndiaTango420@reddit
Tbh as a student pilot with about 25 hours, I’m enjoying my time puttering around straight and level in a 172. The steep turns and stall training fulfills the excitement haha. No need for extra risks for student pilots. Gotta build stepping stones before you can try and do some stunt plane maneuvers
Thomas-Ligotti97@reddit
So why are you in this sub then if you’re just trashing planes bud?
fgflyer@reddit
For demonstrating the aerodynamics of aerobatics to a layperson, I’d argue an RC plane is a great visual way to teach somebody.
For us pilots? Not so much…
segelflugzeugdriver@reddit
The scale of weight to power is vastly different. Fun as they are, there aren't all that useful.
timesuck47@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/AbsoluteUnits/s/i3dEcfyQcQ
primalbluewolf@reddit
Also extremely useful. You should be familiar with what the plane is capable of doing. Not just how to sit in the middle of the performance envelope, but how the plane behaves approaching an edge or corner, too - and how to get the best performance out of it, safely.
N5tp4nts@reddit
Spin training was the best money I ever spent.
NoRadio4530@reddit
We practice spins pretty often in Canada. I'd love to learn how to do rolls lol
HighVelocitySloth@reddit
“I’m at 24 hours and haven’t done any loops . Is this normal?” Reddit post probably
Redfish680@reddit
“I’m at 24 hours and haven’t done any loops. Should I find a new CFI?”
randylush@reddit
Half the comments: “You should definitely find a new CFI. There are a lot of red flags in this post.”
Other half: “I can tell you’re American because you aren’t taught 2 points of a 4 point roll to inverted as part of your checkride.”
Ok-Money2811@reddit
I used to teach jammed trim…I wouldn’t let the student touch the trim wheel from entering the airport airspace all the way to the runway and have them do a landing. I also taught in the Cirrus and I would either pull the breaker or hold the AP disconnect on my side which would inop the electric trim switch.
Had several people I’ve done that to on a BFR that the had never done that before. Cirrus can get pretty heavy in the stick without trimming and it can throw you off if you’ve never felt that, especially landing.
Mr-Plop@reddit
Wasn't there a cirrus crash a couple of years back due to a runaway trim?
BayBeeXL@reddit
If you’re referring to the one in San Diego, I watched that happen
Dogmanscott63@reddit
Had my instrument instructor diatract me with "supposed" plane below and why hadn't ATC called traffic while extend the flaps in the 172. Had to push hard to keep the nose down, I reached for the trim and thought.." wait a minute" then I noticed what he had done. Good lesson
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
I had this happen flying corporate in an SR22 once. Got told to descend, gave the autopilot the VA command, about a minute later wondered why I was still level. Trim failed.
Weirdly, it worked fine after I shut down and restarted the plane. Never did figure that one out.
Ok-Money2811@reddit
That’s the Airbus fix…our operating manual for the 320/321 has an entire section dedicated to glitches and faults that come up all the time and what circuit breaker or breakers to pull, in what order, and how long to leave them pulled out.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Works on just about everything. Looks like you're 170/190 typed as well so I'm sure you're well versed in this technique.
Ok-Money2811@reddit
Embraer had a different method…unplug, APU off, batteries off, and head to the local coffee shop in the terminal because it needs to sit 5 or 10 min
garau@reddit
Every mechanical breakdown requires an electrical reset… or something like that.
No-Brilliant9659@reddit
“Have you tried restarting the plane?”
mustang__1@reddit
I can't speak for the Cirrus SR22 but the Mooney Rocket might actually kill me if the trim failed. The difference in trim needed for full power, idle power, flaps up/down, is... extreme. Executing a go-around with flaps down and trim up can create more force on the stick than I can physically hold. Power needs to come in smooth, and in stages, as flaps and trim are worked out. I did my first 40 in an SR20 - I don't remember the trim changing much with flap deployment, at least.
healthycord@reddit
I’ve been learning to get checked out in the 182. Holy shit I don’t think I could fly without the trim the yoke is so damn heavy
Ok-Money2811@reddit
100%…the 182 is and will always be my favorite Cessna product but that big elevator and the big motor on the nose makes her heavy in the yoke
I suggest trying this with your instructor as it’s even more of a issue if you get a problem in the trim rigging
healthycord@reddit
Yeah it's way more stable. Unfortunately it's 50% more expensive per hour to rent, at nearly $300/hr wet. So I'll stick with the C172 for most of my training haha.
dballer_17@reddit
My examiner had me do that (trim jam) on my commercial checkride
Shihaby@reddit
I had an instructor do the opposite for me, jammed stick during a touch and go. He just clamped his knees on the stick of the DA-40 and had me do a circuit and landing using power, rudder, and trim only. This was around 2014 I believe.
Figit090@reddit
Holy moly. 😮
Oregon-Pilot@reddit
I actually experienced a partially jammed trim in a Citation jet. I couldn’t trim for any faster than about 190 knots, as the trim wheel seemed to be hitting some kind of a stop. No issue for going the other directing and slowing for landing, thankfully, but single pilot with the boss’ kids in the back, not knowing what the exact problem was and if I’d run into a trimming issue while slowing, it was a bit of a handful without any kind of checklist for this exact type of situation. Diverted to the bigger airport in the area for mx, tower had all the trucks waiting for me.
mfsp2025@reddit
I taught this in a FRASCA Cirrus sim. Also had it done to me. That plane truly gets heavy without it. But nothing beats having it in the real plane
mzincali@reddit
The Immelmann turn.
dumptruckulent@reddit
They wouldn’t let us do an Immelmann, Split S, or full Cuban in the T-6 and it was kind of a bummer
gray191411@reddit
No way! When I soloed the T-6, I did a cloverleaf, Cuban eight, barrel roll, split s, etc. Was nice and quiet without the IP!
abl0ck0fch33s3@reddit
What T6 training was that? I know USAF UPT T6s do all of those maneuvers
MeadyOker@reddit
Since their flair says AH-1Z, we can assume it's Navy flight school.
I will say, that in the T-34 we did the Immelmann and Split S during training, but they weren't allowed on the aerobatic solos.
IFLYBFJ@reddit
Hammerhead
PlaneShenaniganz@reddit
Complete loss of hydraulic power.
Did it in MD-11 training and landed with differential thrust. In theory, the "Sioux City Valve" should prevent it from happening, but ~~our~~ sim instructors are sadistic.
Vincent-the-great@reddit
I did that on my e145 checkride since the plane has mechanical reversionary cables like an a10 warthog. Takes like 200lbs of force to move the yoke.
PlaneShenaniganz@reddit
That's a rough checkride! At least you have some level of mechanical reversion.
The MD-11 has no mechanical reversion, but we have the advantage of an above-CG engine mounted on the tail, which greatly increases our pitch authority with no hydraulic power.
Interesting story - NASA took advantage of this capability to autoland an MD-11 using differential thrust only (with modified autopilots that could set differential thrust on all 3 engines). The link to the study's results, if you care
jpcanty@reddit
DME arc! I had to do one on my checkride when the ACS was brand new because the DPE wasn’t sure if it was required anymore (it wasn’t in my situation), but hey, I was prepared and actually like them.
throwaway-issues44@reddit
Really? I just took my instrument checkride like 6 months ago and had to do a published DME arc, I was also taught unpublished arcs too. Are they really not that common?
ResponsibilityOld164@reddit
in instrument training i wasn’t even shown one because “you will never use this”.
jpcanty@reddit
I’ve never done one in the wild, but they are published. And if ATC finds out, then we’re screwed!
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
2 engines inoperative combined with a no flap landing. Vref +55 in a transport category jet.
Amf2446@reddit
Lmao
loose_as_a_moose@reddit
The crazy things that used to be done on raw iron.
It’s 1979 and your local freighter is taking the veteran check ride failure operator up for his annual re- attempt. It’s night circuits and a few engine outs. For good measure the new FO is watching from the jump seat.
I wasn’t there for this era but I swear some of the war stories I’ve heard started like that.
mustang__1@reddit
I'm reading an accident report from my neighbor's gradfather who died in a training flight as the IP. Just a CAVU day with light wind, couple engine failures and... dead.
Figit090@reddit
We're talking just throttled back right?
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
One blew up rught at V1. The second one catches fire on downwind when youre returning to land. Then when you command flaps, nothing happens. Its all in a SIM of course. The only thing I did wrong on that maneuvering was they said I had a wingtip strike on landing. The most perfect checkride otherwise. People strike wingtips at airlines and they still have a job nkw they can't even test on that maneuver anymore and I have an ATP ride fail on something thats not even possible anymore.
RaidenMonster@reddit
That’s the shit you get when you finish the course early.
“10k ft above the airport, dead airplane, good luck, all counting on you.”
KingJellyfishII@reddit
as a glider pilot this is an ideal situation
cptnpiccard@reddit
> Its all in a SIM of course.
Why kill my boner like that, my guy?
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
My bad. Wish I could have maintained your boner.
Figit090@reddit
Why did they stop that test? It's a pretty thick piece of Swiss cheese but seems reasonable to at least experience a bad situation like that.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
They were combining 2 areas of evaluation, (2 engines inop) + (no flap) landing in an effort to save time. I'm guessing if they were doing 2 checkrides they could save a combined 15-20 minutes by doing those areas together. Checkride day in the sim can start to run behind by virtue of the fact that we tend to slow down and really make sure we get shit right. I think the FAA told them they weren't allowed to combine those areas because thats not what the spirit of the evaluation is. Otherwise its a slippery slope and you could do all that while doing an ILS and a hold and partial panel. You get the idea.
Checkeide-failure@reddit
The odds of this happening are less than the odds of the atoms of a closed door lining up perfectly, where you can just walk through.
KingJellyfishII@reddit
I think you're off by many orders of magnitude but yes both unfathomably unlikely
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
I can only assume this was in a dc-8/747 type back in the day
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
Falcon 7X.
mkosmo@reddit
That thought scares me.
Drunkenaviator@reddit
It's still done on the 747. Two engine visual, both engines on the same wing.
hartzonfire@reddit
When men were men.
That sounds insanely difficult.
flyby2412@reddit
Thankfully we have women now so they can handle that maneuver no problem
fireandlifeincarnate@reddit
I'm a woman and I've done this in kerbal space program so that tracks
hartzonfire@reddit
I was 100% being sarcastic.
flyby2412@reddit
Really?!? /s
Illustrious-Run3591@reddit
/s i say, /s!
goatfuckersupreme@reddit
When women were men.
CFIgigs@reddit
Using paper charts
obecalp23@reddit
Recently got my PPL. All nav’s had to be done using a paper chart.
bozoconnors@reddit
They make you use an E6B too?
obecalp23@reddit
Yes. I mean mechanical flying computer if that’s what you mean. Not sure what model I got.
bozoconnors@reddit
Ha, yep. They're universally known as an E6B.
CFIgigs@reddit
It's refreshing to hear some places still require paper charts. It's a good fall back. That said, I have been surprised how hard it is to actually find them. A lot of schools and FBOs don't have them.
HJSDGCE@reddit
My school has use prepare paper charts, but never really use it when flying (except for the first few sorties). After that, we just stick with the GPS.
Sorry_Priority8144@reddit (OP)
Not according to my school 🥲
Sage_Blue210@reddit
A lost art
Choose_right@reddit
Useless art
Akashd98@reddit
Forced landings (no power) all the way to touch down off field. Still taught in some places in New Zealand
obecalp23@reddit
Isn’t it mandatory? I had to do this during my PPL check ride.
Akashd98@reddit
Yeah it’s on the flight test but usually we just go around at 500ft (or lower at examiner’s discretion), but I knew a couple flight schools who had arrangements with local farmers to use their paddocks to practice forced landings all the way to a full stop.
obecalp23@reddit
Okay. We don’t land in fields. But we must touch down the runway and show that we could have stopped.
Akashd98@reddit
Ah we do that too sometimes, but it’s better imo to practice them over unfamiliar terrain as the main point is to teach the flow of field selection, engine flows, energy management than the landing (which you’d practice anyway with PO180s/glide approaches)
obecalp23@reddit
We still need to make a very low approach on a field. But yeah that’s not the same.
oh_snap1013@reddit
I certainly remember a few people who “accidentally” touched down in the Low Flying Zone near Cambridge/Hamilton
Unlucky_Produce5943@reddit
Do they still teach wing wagging? That was my first lesson to learn rudder coordination.
SATSewerTube@reddit
We drew shapes with the nose on my PPL checkride loooooong ago
Unlucky_Produce5943@reddit
I did that too for my first lesson. My CFI had me draw a square with the nose.
ltcterry@reddit
Wing warping.
Ok-Masterpiece4893@reddit
Cuban 8
jet-setting@reddit
Dutch rolls are still a fairly common teaching tool, but I use it as a drill, not a maneuver I’m actually trying to teach. Introduce it on the first or second lesson to emphasize proper rudder use, and then just bring it back later if the student is still having trouble coordinating their inputs.
Short field landings over a 50’ obstacle were always fun, though I went back into old PTS that I could find, and I don’t know if it was ever actually a standard.
jaynon501@reddit
Short field landings over a 50' obstacle is still taught at my school. I'm glad it is, too, because I had to use it recently.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
That's useful for landing off-airport in a small tree-lined field. It gives you more space for the rollout. I got to practice it in RL. Also learned to land on a narrow field that sloped L-R (you land in slip, wings banked to be parallel to the slope), skid the main wheel on the grass, then roll out in a arc ground track. The trick is to straighten out the track before rolling into the undergrowth on the high edge of the field. The hard part is resisting the instinctual urge to level the wings after touchdown during the rollout (glider have just one main wheel in the center of the fuselage). Leveling the wings could catch a tip, and cause a ground loop.)
ResponsibilityOld164@reddit
yeah isn’t that still on the PPL test?
Needs2GetLaid@reddit
A Quick Stop that's actually a "quick stop" and not just a casual slowing down.
aftcg@reddit
Idle from abeam touchdown
Real spins
Real accelerated stalls
General use of the rudder
Flightle@reddit
Personally, I’ve been looking for opportunities to chandelle and lazy eight for years now and I’m striking out.
d4rkha1f@reddit
Turn the lazy eights into wingovers and go get yourself into a box canyon to use chandelles.
Anonymous5791@reddit
If you're using a chandelle to get out of a box canyon, all that tells me is you've clearly never done real backcountry flying. That's the "FAA" answer that people pass along who've never flown in those conditions and I really wish they'd quit passing along that bullshit.
You use a canyon turn if you're actually in this situation. Extreme bank angle, slow speed turn, inclusive of a descent potentially, and a drop of the flaps.
Chandelles are good for the comm checkride, and not much else.
Canyon turns are the first maneuver I teach my backcountry students.
yellowstone10@reddit
Yep, same here. The FAA's push towards scenario-based training (while well intentioned) definitely leads some instructors to come up with supposed real-world scenarios for maneuvers that are contrived if not outright incorrect. It should be perfectly OK to tell students that we're not teaching them chandelles or lazy eights because they're useful in any real-world setting, it's just a way for the examiner to see how precise your aircraft control is.
(My related pet peeve: the power-off 180 is not about demonstrating your emergency landing skills! If it was, the ACS criteria would be "stop it on the runway" and not "pick a point and don't you dare go more than 200 feet past it." It's also about demonstrating aircraft mastery.)
quietflyr@reddit
I was blown away the first time I was taught a Canyon turn in a 172 (in an actual box Canyon by the way, but one that was massive and could still be safe if the Canyon turn was botched).
The turn radius is just so ridiculously small.
I learned a lot on that bush and mountain flying course.
holl0918@reddit
Immelmann 😁
BELFORD16@reddit
The first half of lazy 8s are a great way to dip your toes into unusual attitude recovery in jets, so at least that’s still relevant.
Vincent-the-great@reddit
The entire ATP checkride in a real airliner
aftcg@reddit
BTDT EMB120
3417-@reddit
Maybe I missed it but a falling leaf maneuver is useful.
Mean-Selection-9599@reddit
Airmanship
ccaffeinatedtrashcan@reddit
Spins. They are but they also aren't. I know literal CFIs that have only done 1 or two just to get the endorsement.
Choose_right@reddit
You’re a pretty bad pilot if you get into a spin in The first place
LounBiker@reddit
And a pretty dead one if you can't get out of it in the second place.
SoundOk4573@reddit
Looking out the window, instead of at an IPad (note: this extends to all).
obecalp23@reddit
Using an iPad during the PPL course? I could only use one after my check ride.
RogLatimer118@reddit
Coordinated alternating wing rocking back and forth to about 30 degrees while maintaining heading is fun and surprisingly less easy than you would expect. It really requires knowing how to use the rudder.
RogLatimer118@reddit
When I was getting night qualified for my PPL in a C-152, we were doing night patterns and he said you just lost all your light and he turned the red light off and covered the instruments and I had to finish the pattern and land without airspeed indication. Kind of scary but I did fine.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
During my commercial checkride the DPE showed me some maneuvers that he had to do during his training. He showed me dutch roll(s) and explained one where he had to draw a triangle in the air with the nose of the plane. But it made me curious what are some other maneuvers that the old timers were taught that got phased out?
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