Why do people recommend foldable / takedown features in survival rifles?
Posted by SBMS-A-Man108@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 46 comments
Hi all, my question is basically as the title posits. I’ve noticed many times when it comes to survival or pepper rifle recommendations, a common theme is either a folding stock or barrel takedown mechanism. For instance, the classic 22lr rec is the 10/22 takedown from my brief search in this sub.
My question is, why?
For conceal-ability, handguns are way better. Or even handguns with one of the new pop-out brace system. In a Tuesday or doomsday situation, I’d imagine handguns would be the default if you are actually worried about appearing unarmed, rather than a backpack (plus you can draw fast).
For a 22 rifle, I don’t really see the point. Adds another mechanism to maintain and has slight accuracy penalties. Since in a pepper scenario this is your main food rifle, I think maximizing accuracy and minimizing weight should be the goal.
For a fighting or hunting rifle it seems like it would just be an add to weight with no benefit.
Anyhow, would love to hear your thoughts. Side note: anyone have any strong opinions on carbon fiber 10/22 rimfire barrels for a survival gun?
Resident-Welcome3901@reddit
Takedown rifles got their start in WW2 aviation survival kits, both American and German. The Germans used beautifully crafted drillings, we used sheet metal horrors that ate .22 hornet/410 shotgun. Chosen because of space limitations, and the inability of aviators to shoot pistols accurately. The Alaskan infantry hired local guides to help In the Aleutian campaign: the guides carried cling barreled .22 revolvers for foraging purposes.
Abuck59@reddit
Imho the only folding rifle worth it is the SU16. It’s not a pistol caliber , lightweight, some models fire when folded. PC Carbine is ridiculously heavy and a pistol caliber , Sub2k ? pistol caliber and 10/22 is well a .22
IllManager9273@reddit
Su 16 is a fantastic rifle, however the advantages of .22lr are there, mainly you can carry about 500 rounds of ammo in a package about the same weight and bulk as a full canteen, for the daily rabbit its hard to argue with. For self defense, noone wants to get shot and plenty of Graves have been filled by a .22lr especially out of a rifle barrel, a .22 will punch through the front of a human skull and out the back easily. Sub 2k takes glock mags, if you edc glock its not a horrible choice.
Abuck59@reddit
Yeah but “I can carry hundreds of rounds” argument isn’t enough for me. It’s cool if others feel that way but for me protection is more important than ammo portability. If I’m surviving I’m using snares whenever possible for the silence. I spent many summers in Louisiana as a kid-teen hanging with my gramps , uncle and cousins. I also know how to make a spear type instrument for fishing or close squirrels and such.
I want a folding rifle that shoots a rifle round and added bonus it takes AR mags and ammo. If it’s that serious of a situation it could also get me a better rifle 😉
IllManager9273@reddit
Op hits on a important point here and hes not wrong. A conventional rifle has its advantages and the takedown s advantages are often overstated. Imho if storage/concealability arent priority hes correct. That being said the takedown rifle has the advantage of storability. I can snag my grab bag out of my cars trunk, swap into the emergency clothing and boots and be on my way looking like another guy walking out of the disaster zone in about 2 minuets. My takedown fits into that bag, its there if I need it and if I dont ive got my edc pistol to fall back on in a sudden emergency. It also fits nicely to the cargo rack of my e-bike that can be used to get clear of my town and up to my cabin, a full size rifle is not comfortable to carry on a bike and its not greyman friendly.
DeFiClark@reddit
First off: portability and concealment. I’ve lived through many natural disasters and in a couple failed states and I’ve never been in a situation that wasn’t hunting or target shooting related where publicly toting a long gun was a good idea or necessary. Many parts of the world a backpack wouldn’t get a second look, where a rifle might well.
Second off: reach and accuracy. I’m a certified pistol instructor and I can guarantee you that pistol shooting is a perishable skill, particularly under stress.
I can reliably pick up any sighted in 22 rifle I haven’t shot in years and be in the black at 100 yds on the first shot.
9mm pistol if you don’t train at least monthly you get rusty, and in a stress situation even shorting from a fixed rest even well trained shots can miss IPSC targets completely at 25 yards. I’ve seen many shooters miss center mass at 7yds. 100 yds from a rest is about as far as you can reliably hit a man sized target with most handguns.
For anyone who shoots regularly the gap between pistol and rifle accuracy diminishes at 25 yds, but in general a pistol is there to keep you in the fight long enough to get to a long gun.
prone_star@reddit
OP, I think you hit it on the nose. I think takedown features are a solution in search of a problem, and they best justification they could come up with is, "oh, it's for a survival rifle," because attaching the word survival to something makes it ok for that something to be shitty.
AK-Kidx39@reddit
Live with a rifle. They’re big and cumbersome. Your right. I like a short rifle.
ImportantTeaching919@reddit
It's honestly people who haven't really thought much through. The 22 isn't a very viable option in shtf scenario I know I'm the minority but setting up traps everywhere would be More effective long term. People always say it's for hunting but I'd rather have a 12 gauge with different types of ammo Instead of very small game and more focus on fishing, it's more efficient for survival than hunting for the amount of energy and effort it takes
silasmoeckel@reddit
It's the trade off of not obviously toting a riffle as it fits in your pack.
SBMS-A-Man108@reddit (OP)
I guess my question to that is what is the downside of carrying a rifle length pack in a SHTF situation?
To me, if I need to be not obvious, I don’t see why I would carry a 22lr takedown over a 9mm handgun.
tinareginamina@reddit
Both favorites.
hydra2222@reddit
Everyone's SHTF scenario is different. Most I have read think it will be a slow shift not pure chaos and apocalypse. In a civil unrest situation blending in is key. A pistol and take down rifles provide that flexibility and offer two different use cases together. If your plan scenario is worst case anarchy, yeah, use what you have and sling that rifle for convenience.
SBMS-A-Man108@reddit (OP)
That’s a really good point actually, thank you. Shit doesn’t hit the fan all at once necessarily.
hydra2222@reddit
Anything could happen so prepare for what you want to be prepared for but if you can gear up flexibly, that's wise IMO. I'm building out my rifle selection to have overlapping calibers and common calibers. My Ruger PCC and handguns are in 9mm and the PCC can breakdown. Picking up a 10/22 and a Tikka T3X in 308 soon. Next I'd like a lever gun and revolver in 357 (personal choice). Not sure what's after that if anything.
silasmoeckel@reddit
Its obvious your carrying a rifle. Other people might want it and government might care about you having it. Having the capability without being obvious about it is key.
You wouldn't be doing a one or the other, backups are important as is accessibility. So a concealed carry 9mm and takedown rifle.
Now 22lr it's a cheap light and effective round. Some takedowns can do center fire as well giving you more variety of uses with little extra weight. Personally a 22 WMR/410 like a Savage 42 but that works for my family as it's a good fit for 3 of us to use, 3 identical rifles makes sense and the ammo cost/weight isn't significant for worst case scenario bags. I still have plenty of 22lr at home and cabin I just wouldn't hump them walking from A to B.
Justin_Caze@reddit
Why not both?
Maybe you're walking through town to get to your hunting spot? Maybe you just want it to take up less storage space? Maybe you want it to fit in a normal backpack that you already own? Maybe you'd like to take it on the off chance you'll use it, but not sure if you'll have the opportunity? Could be lots of scenarios where compactness would be beneficial.
drowninginidiots@reddit
Survival rifles generally aren’t intended for carrying on your person. They also are not intended for concealment or self defense. They are intended to be stowed away with some survival gear in a plane or boat. So that if you crash or get stranded, you have some way to hunt small game or birds. Small game is usually the goal because it’s typically more plentiful, found in most areas, easier to process, you don’t have a way to store or process the meat from a large animal, and you’re likely just trying to get some food to survive for a few days while on the move.
Tinfoil_cobbler@reddit
These aren’t for self defense, they’re actual “survival rifles” as in you have to land your bush plane in the middle of Alaska and need a packable rifle to shoot squirrels and rabbits to survive for a while.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
This is the correct answer. A survival rifle isn’t a “social rifle”. It’s not for interpersonal conflicts, it’s a minimalist gun to allow you to feed yourself.
It’s like a survival fishing kit: you wouldn’t compete in a bass tournament with a survival fishing kit. But it will allow you to catch fish.
So a minimalist gun, likely a .22LR single shot is perfectly fine, especially if it’s foldable or a take down.
Personally I like the .22LR/shotgun combination guns. You can use the .22LR for small game and use slugs in the shotgun barrel for medium to large game.
HomersDonut1440@reddit
A folding/takedown rifle chambered in most any rifle caliber has more effectiveness for hunting and longer range engagements than a pistol. It’s less about concealability and more about portability.
If I can stick a savage takedown 12ga/308 in my backpack and a 9mm on the hip I’m set for everything I’m likely to run into. And the takedown is a lot easier to carry than a 308 bolt rifle and a 12ga pump
SBMS-A-Man108@reddit (OP)
I suppose my challenge to you would be to ask if it is really easier to stuff a foldable rifle in a backpack then it would be to sling it on the side and have your backpack full of other survival gear, whatever that may be, in a SHTF scenario.
In my experience with a 10/22 takedown, it’s a super neat feature, but if I think about a SHTF scenario, I’m not sure what that feature actually gets me as far as capability goes.
I guess I just don’t see how it is that much more portable on the whole, when 10/22s themselves are light and not very long / a short rifle bag is super easy to wear.
I see how the argument plays out more with a bigger caliber gun - but generally those aren’t the ones you see with the takedown capability
Unicorn187@reddit
Yes, even comparing the takedown 10/22 with a normal one, having it folded and strapped inside... or on the outside, of the pack is a lot easier than one on a sling. I'm assuming you have zero military experience (or at least not as infantry or combat engineer, or 13F, JTAC, or anything similar) and maybe just some hunting? Trying to do a lot of things gets harder with a rifle moving around, not as bad if you can sling it on your back, but you can't do that so easily with backpack on. You get things like have your muzzle an inch in the mud when trying to climb a steep hill because you need your hands. And even if just slung, it makes it harder to use walking sticks, which you really should look at since it saves a lot of stress on the knees and makes walking longer distances use less energy so you don't tire your legs out as much. Something important if you have to move 20 miles before nightfall.
SBMS-A-Man108@reddit (OP)
Correct! Just limited hunting experience.
Would combat engineers travel with a collapsible rifle? Or do you bring them up due to weight of gear
Unicorn187@reddit
No, We (I've been both infantry and combat engineer) carried either the M16A4 or M4 (later), and it was sometimes annoying when trying to keep it out of the way when setting up demo charges, or digging small holes to drop in charges to say blow a tank ditch.
You do get used to having it in your hands or on your body, but that takes more than carrying it a couple days a year.
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
To piggy back… a slung rifle also wears through your clothing too when carried long term. Just another annoying thing to add to this.
Unicorn187@reddit
Lol, so it wohld behoove you to find a way to carry it with as little problem as possibe. With the caveat that if you are in a situation where it might be needed quickly.it would behoove you to chen carry it at the ready.
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
Let me see my NCOs after this.
HomersDonut1440@reddit
There’s a variety of “survival rifles”. One section of the market is takedown 22’s; ultralight, lets you accomplish a lot with minimal weight and size. The other section isn’t produced much anymore, but savage used to make a lovely like (model 24) of takedowns in various centerfire configurations. Those were far more useful as a legit survival rifle than a .22, in my opinion. The 20ga/30-30 was popular for a reason, and they cost a premium now.
If we’re talking only about 22’s, or 10/22’s as you keep referencing, there’s a huge portability difference. A bagged takedown rifle fits in a 20”x6” slot; an assembled rifle is at least 3’ long, and doesn’t just stick int a backpack. And hauling a heavy pack plus a shoulder slung rifle sucks if you wanna do stuff with both hands; slings have a tendency to slip off the shoulder at the worst time.
TheAzureMage@reddit
Rifles are a ton more accurate than pistols.
Takedown rifles are generally compact and fairly lightweight.
DeafHeretic@reddit
I have a takedown .22 RF single rifle that takes down to 16” and weighs 15 ounces. Light weight, small size, fits in most backpacks. Rifles are much more accurate than a handgun - which is good for small game hunting. Also, with the right .22 RF ammo, rifles are generally quieter than a handgun.
As for handgun vs. rifle - you can have both.
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
The consideration is maximizing size and weight ratios and .22 can kill a lot of animals. It it a main battle rifle? No. But it’s not just the rifle itself the ammo also factors in. The cost, size and weight of the ammo.
Why is this important? The cost in calories of weight carried over distance isn’t linear. Going around in your daily life you don’t feel it. Hump 10 miles you will.
SirHarryAzcrack@reddit
The want a low profile backpack gun that’s cheap. Be me and get an AR pistol in 10.5 inch barrel. Fits in a backpack and actually fucks shit up.
Weekend_Donuts@reddit
A 22LR will have decent range for small game. It’s hardly a self defense round.
The take down function is just to make it a smaller package for carrying or putting into a backpack.
Chainsawsas70@reddit
I have A Norinco copy of the Browning 22 takedown and it's a Fantastic packable rifle. It's primary job is to be able to get stuffed into a pack so you have a way to get small game without having to carry it slung etc All folding/takedown models are designed around easy transport more than being "Stealth" but stealth is a good benefit.
Soff10@reddit
Size. Long and encumbered. If you have the ability to pack it or break it down. You can carry another rifle.
Puzzleheaded_Ad3574@reddit
Gray man. You look unassuming and you're covered for self defense or hunting. You don't want anyone to know who or where you are. It's quiet. It won't give your position away. You can walk into the woods, take it out of your bag and hunt small game without obliterating it and alerting everyone in the county. It's versatile in that it can also take down larger game. The ammo is light weight. Which you want if you have to run or hike a few miles.
Unicorn187@reddit
It's easy to carry in a pack.
This is for a few reasons.
You aren't using it constantly, so it's a lot easier to carry in, or strapped to you pack than to sling it, or even have a longer rifle on you pack, mostly for balance.
Concealability is nice when you don't want to scare people with a rifle. Since you aren't using it, it's packed away out of sight.
In a true SHTF situation, it's not an either/or with your handgun. You carry both. The 9mm pistol for self defense from people or cougar, and the take down .22 or shotgun for small game like squirrel, rabbit, or birds. And if a shotgun in 12 or 20 gauge, larger animals and defense. Or a takedown rifle in a larger caliber for larger game or defense.
Even if a SHTF, you might not want to deal with a 2 or 3 foot rifle when you could just have it stashed. It could draw unwanted attention, or just be a burden (unless you're an expert and can get neck shots on violent opponents trying to kill you with a .22 LR).
UnknowablePhantom@reddit
Because everyone has a different opinion, plus everyone has a different understanding of what could happen and what could be needed in different circumstances. You should take it into consideration and choose whatever works best for your situation.
Arglival@reddit
One added bonus to a takedown is that when you are pushing through brush there is a lot less snag from branches.
LastEntertainment684@reddit
Generally a .22 rifle is the easiest and cheapest thing to learn to shoot on, while still being at least somewhat versatile. It also tends to have the least legal ownership restrictions among modern firearms. Hence why it’s usually the first recommendation for most non-gun people around the world.
The take down variety simply allows it to be stored/hidden in a smaller space. Like a backpack or suitcase. A lot of people just stuff everything in a bug-out bag and forget about it.
The 10/22 takedown offers that compactness without much of a compromise to reliability, accuracy, or parts availability.
So, overall, it ends up being the simple answer that covers the widest range of people and situations.
Again, the person asking “what’s the best prepper gun” probably isn’t a gun person. Once they get a bit more familiar the next step may be adding something like a 9mm handgun and a concealed carry permit, or a more specialized hunting firearm. But that generally requires more of a financial investment, training commitment, and/or legal understanding.
mikenkansas1@reddit
Because when it's time to start walking home, you can either pull out your bag with a folding stock AR pistol with extendable "brace" or pull your Glock 9mm with funky ass looking stock that likely can't even be used as a brace, silliness congress needs to deal with.
If you go the glock routine have an adjustable 800 meter sight put on it ala artillery Luger.
mmaalex@reddit
It's easier to conceal
Seth0351USMC@reddit
I could see a use as a ranch rifle. Keep in atv cargo box while on farmland. Assemble when needed to dispatch vermin while staying more than pistol distances away. For survival, not very practical.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
I have several 10/22 Takedowns. Actually all of my 10/22s are Takedown.
They are all packed in Bug Out Bags with magazines and plenty of .22LR Ammo. This makes it so everyone with one of my bags have a basic hunting gun for small game. It's light, little space is taken and you can carry it without holding it or on a sling. I really love 10/22s because I can get anyone to shoot accurately with it in about 20 minutes. As a Hunter Safety Instructor, I literally do that.
Jolopy4099@reddit
Foldable stock id guess it's a size thing. Easier to carry with a sling. The take down i agree would add another point of failure but it probably has to do transport possibly.