Two conscription officers stabbed during military registration check in Ukraine
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 167 comments
hellomistershifty@reddit
Speaking to a friend in Ukraine, this is the most visible and stressful part of the war at the moment: military police set up tons of checkpoints and go through bars, restaurants, and malls checking everyone's papers. It's "checking papers" in the same sense that ICE just "checks papers" and often involves beatings, detentions and forcing people onto busses to horrific enlistment centers.
People obviously don't want to see their loved ones grabbed and taken to the front lines, and likely already know people who this has happened to and are now dead as a result. This doesn't mean they're pro-Russian by any stretch, they're just against rotting in a muddy ditch. Many of the men they're looking for have already served in the beginning of the war, survived, escaped and will do anything not to go back.
JoelMahon@reddit
conscription is just a form of slavery imo.
doesn't matter the war, still slavery.
some will say I'm dooming any country to be conquered by a country with conscription, that's just the same argument plenty of folks argued how they had to use slaves to stay in business when slavery was legal because their competitors used slaves.
Natural-Intelligence@reddit
I guess you are also a slave as you are forced to pay taxes and follow the law, or you will be punished. Children are forced to study, so they are slaves as well?
Slavery is about legally owning a human being. Who owns a conscript?
And your argument falls short. The end of slavery didn't start from a company thinking "well, I guess we should free our slaves even though our competitors won't". It started from a national law banning it and enforcing the ban. You can't just make an international law to ban conscription and expect Russia to accept it.
The only option Russia's neighbours have is to also have conscription as well if they want to stay independent. Or have a nuclear weapon.
JoelMahon@reddit
I'm not forced to pay taxes, taxes are a consensual transaction that I can stop taking part of if I want to, it means forgoing lots of things like a salary but since my salary is only possible thanks to the society made by the government made by taxes it hardly seems unfair and it's certainly not slavery.
I can go camp in the wilderness indefinitely with no salary and forage/fish for food and avoid taxes "legally".
the law is more complicated but few law require you to do something unless part of something else optional, at least I can't name many, other than conscription, and perhaps jury duty (which is easy enough to avoid without legal penalty so I don't really count it even though in technicality it's slavery).
actually you can do this, you can get the (so called) civilised countries to sign a treaty that they won't use conscription and will aid any treaty signee if attacked using their consenting armies, even against countries with conscription. provided there are enough civilised nations that don't use conscription then the conscription based nations will be out manned and definitely out budgeted.
that's basically not that different to how slavery was/is tackled, the anti slavery group just got bigger until they said no slavery for anyone and forced it, which is how it needs to be sadly.
lapetee@reddit
Tbh you should not be allowed to participate in a society if you are not willing to defend its existence when the time comes. Just simple as that.
Kelak1@reddit
Even if the society is doing things you disagree with? Such as supporting Israel's genocide and terrorism, protecting pedophile sex traffickers and funneling money to billionaires? Billionaires and millionaires whom are exempt from conscription?
lapetee@reddit
If the society is so bad, then leave? No one is forcing you to stay.
Johnny_Poppyseed@reddit
You can't possibly be that dense
JoelMahon@reddit
and go where? there isn't a "no man's land" set aside that I can go to for free. I didn't ask to be born here, why should I be forced into anything against my consent by people? as long as I'm not violating their rights they shouldn't be able to violate mine.
Offer a trade, if you want people to be in the fight then the old fucks with all the money should be forced to put it forward and young people CHOOSE to be the fight because you offer a compelling deal.
but they figured out it was much cheaper to use threats and violence and propaganda about patriotism rather than offer a fair deal.
Kelak1@reddit
That's a stupid statement. I'm not going to support slavery, in any form. Being forced to fight in a war you didn't ask for is slavery. It's compulsory service, and refusal is met through intimidation, violence or imprisonment. Any attempt to deflect conscription definition as slavery is immoral.
A country should serve it's citizens and if done right, they will choose to defend their homeland and conscription would not be necessary.
JoelMahon@reddit
that's fine, if presented with that choice I'd make my choice, but I haven't been presented with that choice. I'm not given the choice to live disjoint from society to be exempt from any draft.
Natural-Intelligence@reddit
Good luck trying to survive in the wild. Especially in the UK where most of the land is someone's property. Especially in the modern world where we have destroyed most of the wildlife. Being "off grid" is not a choice anymore. It's actually a privilege most don't have. You call paying taxes as a choice, but it actually isn't.
It's really easy from your island nation to say conscription is bad but it's a lot different when your country's existence depends on it. It's easy for you to say that we, all the civilised nations, should sign a defence agreement, but then the US becomes Russian ally and the rest back pedal and just give you motivational post cards.
But, imagine a slavery where every man is a slave. Everyone slave is and they are force to practice to defend their home or do some civil service. Their expenses are paid during the slavery. The slaves do not work for private profit, only for common good. The slaves are allowed around 2 holidays per week, and the slaves are freed after 6 - 12 months, or immediately if their health worsen. That is the thing you call slavery...
JoelMahon@reddit
yup, if it wasn't slavery, here's an idea: make it consensual, offer more money, you don't think there aren't plenty of people with plenty of money? they use violence to force you to fight as a fucking slave because it's cheaper and suckers lap it up under the label of patriotism
Kelak1@reddit
How do you take forced labor to be the same as paying taxes? Username does not check out
Natural-Intelligence@reddit
Because you pay taxes to support the society you benefit from. You do your military service to support the society you benefit from.
Doesn't need much intelligence, to be honest.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
You realize the alternative to not fighting is being enslaved by Russia for Ukrainians?
Jesus_Doner@reddit
The alternative here is negotiating and not living in fantasies.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
Well the Ukrainians are ready to negotiate and Russia is the one refusing to negotiate. Russia's goal is the destruction of independent Ukraine, and they won't give up that goal until their army is annihilated. You cannot reason with someone trying to kill you.
Russia knows it can't conquer the Donbass fortress belt without hundreds of thousands of men lost to take it. Bakhmut cost Russia over 80 thousand troops for a pile of rubble. The Russians have yet to seize all of Chasiv Yar 12km from Bakhmut, three years later.
The Russians have been unable to breech Konstantinyvka. The Russians have yet to reach Lyman after taking Siversk (22km from Lyman) half a year ago. The Russians aren't able to flank the main target of Slovyansk, but instead they'll have to assault the city head on, against fortress lines built over the span of a decade.
Even more, Ukraine is pushing the Russians back in Stepnohirsk and Hulyaipole directions. Ukraine arguably gained more land than it lost last month.
How do you reason with someone who wants you dead?
crusadertank@reddit
False, Russia has set out its conditions quite clearly and Ukraine refused them. Now they are saying until one side deices to change or until Russia just takes what they want anyway
Neither the Russian nor Ukrainian government at the moment shows much wish to negotiate.
No it isn't
Again false. Russia took all of Chasov Yar but Ukraine has recently sent a small group of infantry to a building on the outskirts. Not really supporting what you are trying to claim
There is fighting in both of these cities currently
Russian presence in Svyatogorsk points to you being wrong here
Another lie. Ukraine launched an offensive in the north around the Vovcha river. But the Russian advance westwards from Hulyaipole towards Zaporozhye didn't get stopped at all as Ukrainian attacks here failed
In February it did, then last month Russia gained more again due to that push from Hulyaipole towards Zaporozhye that Ukraine failed to stop
JoelMahon@reddit
you realise you have eyes and could read this part of my comment?
valentc@reddit
You realize right after that you called defending your home country a form of slavery?
JoelMahon@reddit
yes, because it is slavery if forced upon you against your will.
a slave has no right to refuse, that's what a slave is.
valentc@reddit
Thats not what slavery is. Theyre being paid and allowed time off. Conscription isn't slavery. Period.
"Being forced to do something" isnt an example of slavery.
pendelhaven@reddit
Forced servitude is slavery, regardless of the goal. And why is it not gender neutral?
R1donis@reddit
So why then Russia is top 1 destination for Ukranian refuge if we count individual countries, and why people from Donbas fight for Russia?
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
How much of that is voluntary migration?
The people in Donbas have been either brainwashed under the Russian education system, or alternatively they simply have no choice:
-people are coerced into military contracts -military contracts are automatically renewed. When you sign a Russian contract under the illusion of its limited time or coercion, you end up trapped not being able to leave. Often sent as to the meatwave units to die for the sake of a commander filling a quota of sending men to their deaths -the paynent is eaten up by having to buy your own equipment, or by the commanders stealing it
This is coming a lot from pro war Russian bloggers
Btw as a fun fact, Russia is looking to seize all the private savings to pay for the war soon
R1donis@reddit
They started fighting against Maidan regime back in 2014, how exactly Russian education system affected them, and how Russia gave them no choice?
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
I am not lowering myself to the sewer levels. You have no idea what the reality on the frontline is.
The fact is what happened in 2014 was that the likes of Igor Girkin recruited Ukrainian criminals to take over the Donbass, which Russia saved with an intervention when Ukraine started crushing this rebellion. For your perspective, basically the equivalent of if the US intervened to protect Chechnya in the 2000s agaisnt the Russian invasion.
R1donis@reddit
Igor Girkin had 40 man, actual fighting force of DNR/LNR consisted of their police force.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
And Ukrainian criminals and the lines promoted to local leadership by Ghirkin once he seized power.
R1donis@reddit
I am absolutly sure you can provide names of such criminals.
Illesbogar@reddit
This is just stupid.
JoelMahon@reddit
yes, forcing people to do things against their will is stupid.
even taxes don't work that way, taxes are part of an ongoing transaction, a transaction you can refuse to take part of (you lose the benefits ofc, which includes but limited to, working in our society) but you can go camp in the wilderness without a salary/income and not be subject to any taxes.
to "dodge" conscription that way is criminal.
Illesbogar@reddit
No, sentencing everyone to death and suffering and ending your country and culture bc you don't want to participate in a common steuggle is stupid. The fact that people think in an anti-social manner like you, demonstrates that conscription is needed.
ChillDeleuze@reddit
Your point would hold more weight if this "common struggle" and "social manner" applied to politicians/oligarchs too (and their families). Until then, it's merely ideological discourse trying to justify the sacrifice of working class people so that rich pigs can stay rich pigs, because those that have most to lose are those with the most power to begin with. Culture be damned if that happened to me, I'd rather keep my family and friends alive, even if that means leaving the country.
Illesbogar@reddit
But keeping them alive means the opposite. And how is it to the benefit of the rich when you are fughting for survival?
ChillDeleuze@reddit
There are ukrainian refugees in my city (as in many cities). They're very alive.
Those in power will also flee the country as soon as they're about to lose that power, and until then, they'll keep ordering beatings for conscription. Again, it's not those giving the orders that are forcefully sent to the front.
And I'm not only speaking of ukrainian politicians/CEOs/etc. My own country's also benefit from these beatings, as it "keeps" war away from us western europeans.
The meat grinder is not going to stop anytime soon, so I fully understand those that do everything to leave the slaughterhouse.
Illesbogar@reddit
I'm sympathetic towards them too, but again, they didn't exactly end up well. If those who remained lose, then the friends and family of those who remained will die. And then the war will arrive to them. And they can flee again if they want to abandon the country that took them in too.
It only worsens the death and suffering of those who are willing to stand up to what is right.
If your life philosophy is so nihilistic and apathetic that nothing matters to you at all and you love nothing and have nothing, you might as well end it. Why live at that point? If anybody can die and everything can end and you just don't give a fuck, why bother with life? That's not even life. Not human life at least.
ChillDeleuze@reddit
I kinda see your point, but we're both trying to predict the future, and there's no way to be sure. As I see it, there's a way higher probability that "My brother and I stay, and fight, and then we die" than "My brother and I flee to another country, and war comes to that other country, and then we die".
As for your last paragraph, I seriously wonder how you came to that conclusion ; I value life much more than I value nations (or imaginary "national culture" that transcends regional differences, for that matter) ; and, in my point of view, those calling for every men to fight are those that just don't give a fuck. Life is much more than arbitrary geographical borders.
Finally, repeating my point again : these lofty ideals would matter more if they were universal, but they disproportionately apply to the poor and the lower middle class people than they do for the rich and powerful, and this have been the case for a very long time -- whatever country we're talking about. Such long-lasting pattern has to be explained in some way, and the explanation I agree with implies that nationalist conscription is mainly a way to maintain capital in the hands that currently holds it.
Let's agree to disagree, it seems clear to me that we won't reach any sort of agreement here, as our "life philosophy" (or death philosophy, considering the matter at hand) rests on incompatible axioms and probability heuristics.
JoelMahon@reddit
doesn't stop it being slavery, you can call it morally justified slavery if you want but just because you support it doesn't mean it stops being slavery.
rather than denying the fact that it's slavery, you just have to acknowledge that you support slavery under some circumstances.
If aliens came down and told me they'd explode the earth if I don't take a slave for life then I'd take as slave for life and consider it morally justified, but unlike you I wouldn't pretend it wasn't slavery.
Illesbogar@reddit
No, having to help each other isn't slavery. Jury duty isn't slavery, public education isn't slavery. Taxes aren't slavery and helping someone in need isn't slavery either.
You are just scared of military service, rightfully so, and trying to justify your cowardice. It's ok to be afraid.
JoelMahon@reddit
I already explained how taxes aren't slavery, if you aren't going to read my comment then don't reply.
Laphad@reddit
comparing conscription during war to the myth of slavery during an economy is just dumb
Don't get me wrong, conscription is definitely an evil and comparable to slavery in a lot of ways, but it is not a myth that economies need slavery.
The simple fact is that an assault against a position without a 3:1 advantage is almost always doomed to fail. When you have a manpower shortage, your ability to have that advantage is not possible.
That is one single aspect
JoelMahon@reddit
and your cotton farm is doomed to fail if you have to pay 100s of wages compared to your competitors just paying for food and slave drivers
seems pretty comparable to me and still not a valid argument for slavery nor conscription
Laphad@reddit
This is such a dishonest comparison.
3 people fight 1. That isn't a myth that the 3 win almost every time.
JoelMahon@reddit
a slave being cheaper and an employee isn't a myth and almost always true as well???
Laphad@reddit
Employees are cheaper than slaves on scale and its been shown. You dont need to monitor and guard employees the same way and they have much higher productivity and output.
You are really trying to argue such a dumb point. Go find a group of 3 and try boxing them and report your findings.
Heroyem@reddit
dishonest AND dumb
Laphad@reddit
Okay so you either are completely dishonest or suffer from sort of mental deficiency.
You cannot and do not actually struggle to understand that 3 people fighting one person will simply beat that person in combat. You are at best dumb and at worst pro-destruction of Ukranian identity and culture.
Duck_87@reddit
Are you ok in the head? What exactly are you defending here? You're literally saying men need to go die so dictators like zelensky stay in power? What a clueless baboon...
Zemledeliye@reddit
Except the bit about conscription is 100% true and the thing about slavery was not, but just a teeny, tiny detail 🙄
JoelMahon@reddit
citation needed
citation needed
and whichever combination of both true, both untrue, true false, or false true my point was that it shouldn't matter, slavery is still wrong even if it means you lose to businesses using slavery.
CMRC23@reddit
May all conscription victims across the globe dodge the draft.
bluecheese2040@reddit
They've been grabbing men off the streets for years. There was an article about men living like Anne Frank in attics cause the risk.is so high.
There was an interview with the Head of (iirc) azov or one of the assault units who said mostly they are useless as the kidnapped conscripts don't wanna be there and desert enmasse as soon as they can.
Often they end up in territorial defence...or static defence units...which unfortunately tend to be the ines that bear the brunt of Russian offensive actions and get hit hardest.
For a country that claims such remarkably low casualties its amazing that Ukraine needs to do this.
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
The same thing happened in the UK during WW2, I never see people talking bad about that draft.
If my country tried to draft me, I would agree with the decision and then do everything I could to avoid it.
It's just the way the world works.
slater126@reddit
the last time the UK had press gangs (like what is happening in Ukraine) was 1814. pre WW1 by a century.
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
Lol, yes, we used police instead.
bluecheese2040@reddit
I mean many people objected. Let's also remember the UK is soaked in propaganda about ww2. Dunkirk is seen as a heroic victory...not a lucky outcome of a crushing defeat. We are indoctrinated about ww2...don't get it twisted.
JustChillin3456@reddit
You’re correct
They “won” the war but lost their culture
JustChillin3456@reddit
WW2 was shrubby the most important war in human history which could have easily ended in fascists victory
And what has been the reward the UK got for the sacrifices of their young men ? For saving the world ?
A society in decay ? Becoming minorities in their own country ? Being hated and spit down on by the world for the sins of their ancestors ?
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
Evidence that the UK sent goon squads to people's homes and places of work to kidnap them and force them to sign their life away in WW2 please
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
You can Google it yourself.
They were taken to court and then either allowed an exception, forced into service, or left in labour camps.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
No, you have to prove. Grab me the link.
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
Do I? Lol
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Do you have evidence?
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
Sure, there's plenty.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Are you aware of the concept of Burden of Proof?
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
Of course.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Good dog. Now, be good and give us the ~link~ pawn
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
Why? The burden of proof is only necessary when trying to convince somebody of something.
I dont care about you. Educate yourself.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
It's because volunteers wouldn't be sufficient in numbers, they never are in war. Every country waging any bigger war will conscirpt men.
If Ukraine operated on a voluntary signup basis, you'd be looking at Russia forcing tens of thousands into conscription and just overwhelming Ukraine with sheer numbers. Russia forces people to sign up contracts which are automatically renewed against the desires of the Russians. The Russians force their soldiers to use most of their generous signup bonuses to pay for their own supplies.
Of course ideally conscription should be handled better, but without it you'd have way more cases of Ukrainian frontlines without men to shoot at Russians.
Ukriane needs conscription, because Russia has like four times the population of Ukraine. In Bakhmut alone you had Ukrainian trenches filled with bullet caisngs owing to how many Russian assaults they had to fire against
bluecheese2040@reddit
Ukraine claims to lose so few men and kill so many Russians....like 27/1 sometimes...would imply your excuse is unlikely.
I'm.purely basis it on Ukrainian figures.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
Because Ukraine's manpower needs don't just include people right on the frontline, they include need for reserves and ideally to allow rotations.
Currently you have Ukrainian soldiers forced to remain on the front for up to severla years because there sinply aren't enough men to allow rotations.
It's similar to how if say you have supposedly a fleet of 10 cars in your possession able to move goods, in reality only 6 of them are in use at a time because the other 4 are undergoing maintenance or are backups.
Ukraine is forced to keep its soldiers in the front at worst for years without leave simply because there is no one to replace their position.
Ukraine has been struggling to fill this manpower gap, especially as unlike Russia it actually somewhat values human life and isn't tricking Africans and Asians to come work in Ukraine only to send them to man the front. That, and western countries aren't sending their troops even while North Korea sent a whole detachment of soldiers to attack in Kursk
bluecheese2040@reddit
People seek to explain why....its obvious why they do it and you have articulated it well. But doesn't alter the fact.
You talk about Russia using Africans...the numbers of Africans compared to e.g. Colombians on the Ukrainian side makes this a moot and purely propagandist point designed to deceive. Which is clear.
North Koreans fought, iirc, only inside Russia unlike American and Colombians.
It saddens me no end that in a righteous fight against Russia people on our side resort to such obvious distortions of the truth.
Ukraine claims to have taken such low casualties...makes u wonder why it doesn't have the manpower to rotate its troops.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
https://busification.org/
Theres thousands of documented cases, some from multiple angles/POVs
Whats going on is absolutely disgusting, raising the conscription age to 65.. having ads for women in the infantry, having kids build drones..
I personally dont feel comfortable supporting that.
valentc@reddit
War fucking sucks, but this moral high horse people want to get on about the ethics of an existential war is insane.
You're basically saying if you cant ethically defend yourself, you deserve to die and to lose your home.
JustChillin3456@reddit
Losing your nation doesn’t mean death
Putin wants the territory not the complete genocide of every Ukrainian
valentc@reddit
Cultural genocide is still genocide. Russia has been kidnapping Ukrainian kids and putting them with Russian parents.
Putin doesnt just want Ukraine, he wants to stamp out its entire existence and make it pure Russian.
JustChillin3456@reddit
Still not a good argument. Cultural genocide is something most of the west is experiencing including myself.
Guess what. That’s still not as bad as dying in a war that doesn't benefit you. A war you have no chance of winning, a war you don’t even want to fight
The west has literally been importing Ukrainian women around the world, giving them money and plane tickets to start lives with foreign men
Again you care more about putins desires and how it may eventually affect you , not so much about the blood of the Ukrainian men who will die in the meat grinder
valentc@reddit
Lol, oh, ok, you're great replacement chud. Have fun with that buddy, not gonna engage with a white supremacy conspiracy theorist.
Duck_87@reddit
It's sad because 90% of people here support it without a second thought. Just look at the idiot above justifying this type of "draft".
fretnbel@reddit
Draft existed everywhere in Europa and in case of an invasion it would surely be enacted again.
Infamous-Cash9165@reddit
Drafting is one of the oldest forms of slavery
Duck_87@reddit
In Ukraine it's not a draft it's a corruption scheme. They beat and kidnap you. For 5000$ you're free to go. For 20k+ they might even let you leave the country.Drafters are becoming multimillionaires declaring btc now. This has nothing to do with the war.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
It's true, existed in Europe. Long time ago. Last time press gangs were seeing like this was during Napoleonic wars.
angelolidae@reddit
They still exist and can be applied in case of war in a majority of countries not only of Europe but the world
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Still waiting for a evidence outside Ukraine nowadays.
angelolidae@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription
It's quite literally a wikipedia search away lmao
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
You are confusing conscription with press gangs. I'm talking about press gangs. Ukraine is far, far ahead of just conscription
angelolidae@reddit
No, we were clearly talking about drafts
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Again, what Ukraine is employing is not draft nor just conscription: it is called press gangs. And they even have their own name for it: bussitication
fretnbel@reddit
Ww2?
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
As I asked from another guy, please, bring us a link of press gangs being employed in WW2
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
And in 2026, people would resist harder than ever like we see in Ukraine. People don't want to defend countries that do nothing for them but work for Epstein
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Ukrainans in Ukraine dont even support the war, Zelensky has 13% approval rating, thats less than Trump. Take that in for a second guys.
IZ3820@reddit
That's a dramatic lie.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
20% https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-presidential-rating-drops-to-20-poll-shows/
Bad_Ethics@reddit
From the article you linked:
"Only 20.3% of Ukrainians would vote for President Volodymyr Zelensky in future presidential elections, according to a survey by Info Sapiens published on Dec. 9.
However, he remains the most popular candidate, according to the poll."
Nice of you to bury the lede like that.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
Yes, Zelensky successfully got rid of non-nationalist politicians and media.
The majority of Ukrainians support negotiated peace with Russia, but there are simply no politicians who support that, so whom should they support?
IZ3820@reddit
Russia doesn't want to negotiate peace. Bad premise.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
Of course they do, in fact the peace deal was negotiated and completed in Turkey in the first few months of the war. It was Kiev that rejected that negotiated peace. There where other attempts and each attempt Kiev walked away. Kiev thinks, that they might get a better deal if they continue to fight, but so far, in each consecutive negotiations their deal simply got worse and worse...
IZ3820@reddit
I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
Is that the one you bought from Ze? I'm afraid you are stuck with it now, there is a huge oversupply of those... Large chunk of the western world eagerly buys anything coming out of Zelensky's mouth...
IZ3820@reddit
Spoken like a stooge.
Bad_Ethics@reddit
His own source contradicts the premise of his statement, and you are doing is swooping in to move the goalposts on his behalf.
IZ3820@reddit
https://news.gallup.com/poll/693293/charts-show-ukrainians-shifting-views-leadership.aspx
Interesting.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Check the date on that article
IZ3820@reddit
Check yours.
Bad_Ethics@reddit
August 7, 2025.
The one you keep linking is December, 2025. Not a big difference.
NNKarma@reddit
Any history of such polling? Because I'm sick of looking at history of comments of "look hoe low X is polling" when in reality a country just is that critical and presidential polling has been that low for decades.
fretnbel@reddit
He’s pulling it out his *ss
werqulz@reddit
What is your source? Quite sure you are straight up lying.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
20% sorry.
https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-presidential-rating-drops-to-20-poll-shows/
Heroyem@reddit
It literally is a draft.
Danson_the_47th@reddit
Maybe other folks shouldn’t invade your country and kill/rape your civilian occupied population. As a Macedonian, you should be acutely aware of that fact given the fighting your former Yugoslavian breakaway states went through, fighting for their own homelands.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Oh im aware of your illegal bombing campaign on my motherland. My father was with the JNA for 4 years on the frontlines fighting your proxies.
Danson_the_47th@reddit
And your father got his ass handed to him, and Kosovo is a free state, and Yugoslavia is no more.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
You guys hit nothing but civilian targets, just like the recent threat in iran.
Why not send troops? You were scared of fighting slavs on their own land.
Thousands of sorties against civilian infrastructure till Milosevic surrendered, you think that makes you a badass?
Danson_the_47th@reddit
Whatever you say North Macedonian.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Judging by your microwave, youre more broke than my family in Macedonia lmfao
Duck_87@reddit
Every single day It's beating, torture and kidnapping of civilians by this so called "drafters". It's about time ukrainian men get fed up with this bs.
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
What's the alternative, allow Russia to invade?
JustChillin3456@reddit
If there’s no ukrnaians left to even re populate Ukraine wtf is even the point ?
Yea let Russia have it if it means innocent Ukrainian men don’t have to fight and die in a war they don’t want
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
I'm sure you would say the same about the US. /s
JustChillin3456@reddit
Regarding what exactly ?
Which one of Israel’s wars we fight for then would you like me to condemn?
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
Ukraine should have built a country people want to defend. Instead it impoverished the nation with corruption. So yes. Let it fall. Why would the average working class person care if they're lorded over by Putin or Zelensky the Zionist
Eexoduis@reddit
Would you ever say the same thing about Gaza?
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
There is not one Palestinian who is forced to defend Palestine, not one. Strawman.
Eexoduis@reddit
Not a straw man lol. But if more Palestinians had volunteered to fight maybe Hamas could’ve held on longer. Instead they did their best to preserve their own lives instead of fighting the aggressor. Therefore Hamas deserved to fall.
That is your logic
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
Lol, insane position, clearly influenced by your views on other conflicts.
Duck_87@reddit
So let's kill them because they don't want to fight for donbas? REALLY? How is it better than what russians are doing?
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
How is it better than mass graves, rape and the bombing of civilians? A lot of ways.
Duck_87@reddit
You can thank zelensky for that with his fking BBQ speech before the war.
Eexoduis@reddit
Russia is to blame
Eexoduis@reddit
I mean… in terms of net good, Russia is killing, torturing, and raping Ukrainians daily. They also forcibly conscript peoples in occupied territories to go kill other Ukrainians and probably get killed by the Ukrainian military, or get executed.
Conscription is not a good thing. It’s heinous. But the entire situation is heinous
bippos@reddit
Yeah bro it’s only Donbas 🤡
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
If the people don't want to fight Russia, why should they be forced to?
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
Not for me, no.
Laphad@reddit
I can't help but wonder what comments youre hiding comrade
kimchifreeze@reddit
For Ukraine, this is his stance: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrendoraX/comments/1qcld01/comment/nzkag68/
For everything else, he's just a typical 30+ toxic gamer. Unsurprisingly, he is okay with police brutality: "When people resist arrest what do they expect that cops will get bored and just walk away?". That's in response to "Sydney protestor held down and punched in the head and liver for protesting the visit of Israeli president Isaac Herzog to Australia" so he's okay with the boot on some occasions.
Duck_87@reddit
So that's where you educate yourself, in reddit comment histories? Well that explains a lot...
Laphad@reddit
This is a pretty bad comeback ngl dog. Yea. You can educate yourself about a person and their allegiances by seeing their previous postings.
mgalexray@reddit
Ukraine is in a very bad place. Playing war of attrition with a country 10x their size. Honestly I’m not sure what the strategy here even is? It’s been 4 years, it’s not slowing down, survival currently depends on western support. If they just hope to wait it out somehow I’m not sure how many more need to die for that.
Ukraine should put on an… unconventional offensive if it ever hopes to survive this.
The360MlgNoscoper@reddit
There is no real alternative. Surrender isn’t an option.
JustChillin3456@reddit
Right because that didn’t work for Vietnam /s
Duck_87@reddit
Did Georgia surrender then? How come it still exists and people are not being drafted there like rabid animals?
DeviantPlayeer@reddit
Any better options?
fretnbel@reddit
Russia staying out of Ukraine.
DeviantPlayeer@reddit
You see, there is a tiny little problem. You want Putin to stop, and I want Elon Musk to give me a billion.
But in reality I can't tell Elon Musk what to do and you can't tell Putin what to do, so it's not really an option.
Maybe I will call Putin this evening and tell that a guy from Reddit asked him to stop, but I cannot guarantee that he will say yes.
NezumiAniki@reddit
It was an option, now it's equally pointless as continuing the war. There's no come back for the country itself. It was a double suicide by Russia and Ukraine.
Treinrukker@reddit
Slow defeat sounds better with most Ukrainians that left bot returning surely.
JustChillin3456@reddit
The strangely is right the proxy war for NATO so no other European country has to send their young men to fight and die when Ukrainian leaders will just do it for them
Duck_87@reddit
The strategy is simple. Europe keeps zelensky in power as long as he keeps this war going on ukrainian territory.
cmrd_msr@reddit
People naturally prefer life in prison to death at the front.
I can't blame them for that.
If people aren't willing to fight voluntarily for the regime, it's useless. Ukraine is a failed state.
Laphad@reddit
Meanwhile Russia has also been using forced conscription and the recruitment of prisoners. Are they a failed state too?
cmrd_msr@reddit
Prisoners are being asked to storm the prison. No one is forced into the SMO.
Even when reservists were initially mobilized, those who weren't ready were released (I know someone like that myself).
Laphad@reddit
Meanwhile Russia continues to up the punishments for draft avoidance and continue to set up resources for employers to report military aged men.
The countless videos of Russians that, at the very least, claim to have been forced.
As for stoning for guilt, that's funny
cmrd_msr@reddit
Conscripts are prohibited from being used without a war. Neither side has declared war.
Laphad@reddit
And yet even the russian government has acknowledged these forced draftees (different from conscripts somehow) ending up on the Frontline and dying en masse.
cmrd_msr@reddit
Please confirm your words.
Laphad@reddit
This is just a handful of sources because I can't be bothered to look deeper.
Making the claim that your motherland has men ready to fight and die and that they dont need meat while like 2 comments ago acknowledging that they've turned to recruiting prisoners, many of which irredeemable criminals, and shipping them off without training is very funny.
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-conscripts-war-combat/33415104.html
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/10/22/hundreds-of-thousands-of-ukrainians-are-forcibly-conscripted-by-russia-s-army_6746688_4.html
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/08/14/russias-use-of-inexperienced-conscripts-for-kursk-defense-raises-questions-a86018
https://www.thebarentsobserver.com/security/as-ukraine-advances-in-kursk-families-of-north-russian-conscripts-cry-mercy/166834
cmrd_msr@reddit
And yet even the russian government has acknowledged these forced draftees
Please confirm your words.
Laphad@reddit
its very interesting that both you and a certain demographic of the US government with demonstrable ties to the Russian government spout the exact same things
valentc@reddit
USAID is so bad that you had to hide what you say about it? It doesnt even exist anymore, so why talk like its a boogeyman man?
No one cares if you want to simp for "the motherland", just stop acting like forced conscription isnt a thing. They forced an American citizen who moved there to the frontlines like 2 weeks after they got there.
fretnbel@reddit
Have you analyzed your own country mate?
Butane9000@reddit
Western governments trying to drum up and drag the world into WW3 aren't ready or equipped to deal with mass non-compliance when they try to force a draft. Or if the best things that has been brought about from the Internet is education regarding war propaganda. Besides the fact that the very same governments have demonized those most likely to enlist causing them to not only be alienated to assist but outright potentially making them hostile.
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