Kioxia has let me down.
Posted by FierceFluff@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 42 comments
I don't know what it is with retailers and manufactuers lately (actually I suspect I do, but c'mon).
Picked Kioxia for our server NVME drives because they have both great performance, and SAID they offered a 5-year warranty on enterprise equipment. Bought 26 CM-7 drives. They do work great, but one failed a year in.
I bought it fron ServerSupply, who told me it's been too long since the purchase date, they won't accept a return. I said great! I'm not trying to get a return, I'm trying to get an RMA. They replied too bad, we don't do that.
I contacted Kioxia's RMA line. They said tough titties, we only talk to OEMs not individual buyers. I've been going back and forth between the two for a month and neither will take responsibility for the failed drive that SHOULD be under warranty.
Sooooooo... what good is a warranty if nobody will honor it? Now I'm down a $5000 drive that I can't replace because nobody has stock and nobody will honor their word.
Warning, I guess, for everyone out there. Don't pick Kioxia because they don't care to honor their warranty unless you get them with your server purchase, and heh, good luck with that these days.
Vvector@reddit
https://www.serversupply.com/policies.asp
Products may be returned for replacement or refund within 90 days of purchase. After 90 days it is under manufacturer warranty, if any exists. Manufacturer's warranties vary by product category.
Manufacturers may have policies that void product warranties and other services if products are not purchased via an authorized reseller... Products available on this website may not be covered by the manufacturer's warranty.
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
Good to know. So then where do I buy these kinds of high-end products when every Kioxia NVME authorized reseller is either an OEM that won't sell parts, or some giant electronics company that when you try to contact them doesn't even know what you're talking about, or won't talk to you unless you're going to open a distributor account and buy thousands of units?
Not saying you aren't right to point it out, but it's still a no-win situation no matter how it falls.
Awkward-Candle-4977@reddit
https://americas.kioxia.com/en-us/business/buy.html
It's available through the website
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
Sure, have you actually looked through there? I have. None of those companies will talk to a person who just needs equipment for a project. I tried.
Awkward-Candle-4977@reddit
https://store.supermicro.com/us_en/catalogsearch/result/?q=kioxia&sortBy=supermicro_us_en_products_created_at_desc
or cdw.com
halodude423@reddit
Personal project or work? If personal this is the wrong sub and kind of on you. If for business you need to do things more officially and get a purchase request or some buy in from the org to assist purchasing.
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
Honestly both surprised and disappointed by the amount of "you shoulda known better nub" when in my 10 years of sysadmin the warranty has been bound to the serial number of the equipment, not the path of purchase. Only recently, and only with Kioxia so far, has any company been "nope too bad we don't deal with you non-OEM plebs". I've dealt with many warranties through all sorts of acquisition methods and this has been the first where it's been an issue of 'authorized reseller'. Even then it's not a matter of that so much as it is Kioxia itself just doesn't deal with their customers at all, they rely on downstream to do that. It's shocking how many large companies are doing that these days, effectively cutting off anyone who doesn't command their attention with gigantic $$$.
But to answer your question- work project, business use, I asked many, many vendors and none would sell to me unless I had a minimum order of hundreds or was working with an OEM. Retail was the only way I could get them. Is it right that because I don't work for a Fortune 500 I just don't get access to warranty service? I just have to accept that new tech is only for the big boys or buy at your own risk?
halodude423@reddit
Surprised they turned a cheek if it was work business related then. A lot of vendors are getting worse. HPE support is so bad now, cisco is $$$ with support being awful until you jump through hoops to get someone. Companies pushing purchases out and changing prices, wasn't looking to be mean about it more knowing how this is the way things are going now. Looking to get out of IT myself because of a lot of these trends.
Awkward-Candle-4977@reddit
Authorised resellers won't refuse sale for personal purchase too. They have sales quota
zhantoo@reddit
I don't know for Kioxia, but I do for Kingston. But that's not what you're asking, so..
SquizzOC@reddit
Exactly. ServerSupply is a broker, they stock practically nothing and it’s all used sold as new. Ultimately zero support from the manufacturers basically.
anxiousinfotech@reddit
I've bought some new stuff from them. Definitely seemed like new-old-stock or some excess they picked up from a different retailer/wholesaler and were reselling. Everything that was actually used was properly marked as such.
They're not the place to be buying things for enterprise deployments with SLAs and warranty coverage requirements, that's for sure. That said, the cost of buying a half dozen drives for something not critically imporant and just eating the replacement cost if one fails tends to be way less than buying the same drives through a channel where the factory warranty is honored.
flecom@reddit
So assume everything from serversupply has no warranty and avoid got it
zerassar@reddit
What's the deal with people posting and then not only deleting their OP but their entire account as well?
SquizzOC@reddit
ServerSupply sells used hardware as new. It’s all brokered. You are buying something with Zero warranty every time outside their own return policy.
St0nywall@reddit
You can buy direct or from OEMs directly like Super Micro.
https://store.supermicro.com/us_en/server-accessories/storage.html
CeC-P@reddit
A million years ago when I worked at a place that did custom PC builds, we had 2, maybe 3 manufacturers for each part. If it had above a 1% failure rate, it was out.
Kioxia is failure-prone bulk OEM trash. Not to the degree of Team or Silicon Power or Adata but it's no Samsung or Crucial (RIP). But in a RAID array, who cares? But I make sure we have a lifetime warranty or darn close to it if it's going in anything above a desktop. If I can't trust the vendor, we order a spare and leave it in a box nearby with clear labeling. Server Supply does not have a good reputation, and it didn't take long to determine that with a little research.
attathomeguy@reddit
Your edit kind of answers your own question though you bought from a reseller that isn't authorized by Kioxia, and Kioxia's warranty chain runs through OEMs and authorized distributors. That's not a secret, it's how enterprise hardware has always worked. Kioxia isn't hiding the ball here; they're enforcing the exact support structure they've always had.
The frustration is understandable, but the warranty didn't fail you the purchasing decision did. ServerSupply is essentially a gray market source for this type of enterprise gear. You got a great price on 26 CM-7s precisely because you bypassed the authorized channel, and the tradeoff for that savings is no direct manufacturer support. You can't have it both ways.
The real lesson here isn't "don't buy Kioxia" it's "if you need enterprise warranty support, buy through an authorized channel." That's true of basically every enterprise storage vendor: Samsung, Micron, Solidigm, all of them. If you'd bought through an authorized distributor or direct OEM route, you'd have a clear RMA path right now.
Hopefully this saves someone else the headache, but Kioxia isn't really the villain in this one.
cdoublejj@reddit
One thing i like about Netgear is the warranty ties to the device.
OinkyConfidence@reddit
ServerSupply is great when you need a 25Gbps NIC for a 10-year old Proliant, but for new NVMe SSDs for a brand new production server? Nah.
no_need_to_breathe@reddit
You do realize that serversupply.com is all refurb equipment and that the warranty on most equipment like that doesn't transfer ownership, yes? Not that it's not a crap situation, but that's part of the risk when you buy from a site like serversupply.com - you're getting in a lot of cases a very deep discount for gear that you will not get OEM warranty from if it fails, and very little if any support from serversupply.com.
Horsemeatburger@reddit
Actually, the warranty for the majority of business/enterprise grade IT kit is bound to the device and does transfer across if the device is sold on.
The problem the OP describes is with Kioxia in particular as they don't provide direct support to end users, not even to enterprise customers (they only support OEM customers directly). All end user support goes through their distributors, which it seems serversupply.com isn't one of.
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
This is it pretty much exactly, and this person has put it in better words why I'm upset with Kioxia more than anyone else in this fiasco (other than myself, of course.)
Sintarsintar@reddit
serversupply.com does sell some refurbished stuff but most of it is new
gamebrigada@reddit
I've been burned by them a few times where it was "new" and had a few thousand hours of uptime.
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
That's news to me actually. Everything I've ever purchased from them has been new in manufacturer packaging, especially things like these NVME drives where they're too new to be refurbs. Not surprised to hear they're not an authorized reseller, most manufacturers like Kioxia only ever work with OEMs and don't sell to individuals. So if I don't buy then with my servers, where am I supposed to get them for projects? This was even before the shortages really hit.
Maybe a hard lesson I guess, but still a crappy situation.
gamebrigada@reddit
Another reason why I continue to be a Samsung supporter.
There are very few Kioxia resellers, and they're almost accidental. Supermicro for example is an official reseller.
Rich-Parfait-6439@reddit
Lessons learned, I guess. ServerSupply is a great company, and if THEY advertise they offer a warranty, they do stand behind it. I've had 2 of the 8 refurbished disks I purchased from them die under warranty and -0- questions asked for replacement w/ paid return shipping of the dead drive.
peakdecline@reddit
This seems more like a ServerSupply issue and what potentially looks like them not being an authorized distributor of Kioxia.
dezmd@reddit
Nope it's an OP issue, because he didn't realize all they do is sell used or refurbished equipment that is outside of the normal distribution channels. The whole gist of that site is saving money on refurb components that you may need a particular model or revision of.
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
Definitely an OP issue. But deserves to be heard so others avoid making my same assumptions.
Awkward-Candle-4977@reddit
You should buy though AUTHORIZED distributor or reseller.
They should be listed in kioxia website and their price may not be higher than msrp
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
Except there aren't any that are end-user accessible- I looked. Their only authorized distributors/resellers are OEM/distributor focused. So if that's the only channel available for true warranty, then it doesn't really exist for consumers.
f0xsky@reddit
you might be able to find a local integrator who sells enterprise NVMEs; there is a reason why these companies do not want to deal with retail customers. If you dont have any local companies maybe try someone like Pugent systems. But they might only sell them as part of a server/workstation. We used to get supermicro servers from Central Computers in Bay Area and they were an authorized reseller for a bunch of enterprise gear. They may not sell Kioxia but may be sell Samsung or other enterprise NVMEs.
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
We buy servers from Supermicro and have reseller accounts with places like CDW, who does business with Arrow, who IS an authorized reseller. Guess what they both told us? No, you can't get these outside of whole systems. And I said... okay, what if I bought new systems with these? Oh, those are unavailable. SMH.
Laxarus@reddit
I have a similar situation ongoing but the difference is I bought from an authorized reseller with the premium price last year (Cost me 2K for a single 16TB nvme data center drive Kioxia KCD9XPUG15T33. I cannot imagine the price of this one now). The drive failed withing months and they are dragging their feet to honor the warranty (5 years). I sent them the serial numbers and they said warranty is expired. Then, I sent the invoice. Now apparently they are "processing" it now. It's been 2 months. I think they will eventually honor the warranty but it might take six months to a year.
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
Curious who you found was an authorized reseller to purchase directly from? So maybe I can do that next time. 'cause I've been striking out for a year trying to find places to buy these that aren't some website somewhere or some place that wants a business account and a 100 unit minimum order.
Laxarus@reddit
I got it from a middle east authorized reseller and I used my own domain mail address for contact not a generic one like "gmail" but asked to send and bill them in my name after the purchase.
But the prices are too high now plus the tariffs. It will cost a lot.
iBoost14@reddit
This is why some orgs purchase ditect from manufacturer or certified resellers where the warranty is contractually negotiated. You pay a premium but you have piece of mind. Our support agreement for our hardware include service and warranty. They send a tech to our data centers and fix that shit on command. For drives, if hot swappable we do it ourselves.
If all you have to rely on is the purchave agreement from serversupply referenced here...good luck
FierceFluff@reddit (OP)
Oh I'm certain I'm SOL. I suppose I'm bemoaning the fact that the only place these types of components are even sourceable for an end user are through retailers who can't/won't honor the manufacturer's warranty. Like, even CDW couldn't get them. So unless I work with an OEM I'm SOL, and no OEM wants to help me convert my whitebox servers from SAN to HCI.
It's a no-win situation and it sucks, and others should be aware. Learn from my mistakes! XD
Gmc8538@reddit
Was it bought on a credit card? If so get your accounts department to do a chargeback - I expect serversupply will pull their fingers out pretty sharpish then!
lechango@reddit
serversupply doesn't offer warranty past 90 days, that would be called fraud