The department Manager wants to be a Technician issues
Posted by ThEGr33kXII@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 19 comments
We've had a lot of friction for a very long time. Things have steadily got worse for years, over such a long time it wasn't obvious what was going on.
I'm supposed to be a site manager responsible for the whole site on a technical level. My manager is responsible for multiple sites, budgets and the team with several sites across the country.
The issue is that he doesn't communicate. He doesn't communicate ongoing issues, projects, upcoming plans etc. He doesn't involve me in any meetings about the site or systems I'm responsible for. He will also undermine systems that are functional if he wasn't the one to project lead or come up with the idea, often taking them backwards in time to "old school" ways of working and removing automation because he doesn't understand it. None of the changes are documented or communicated. He tends to prefer dealing with the young technicians that have months of experience and avoids the more senior staff. I expect it's because they won't push back.
I've tried a million different ways to manage up, but it doesn't work. He just doesn't engage. The only engagement left now is when he picks systems and projects apart after the fact. Normally when it's not done exactly how he wants it done. He won't actually communicate what he wants until after the work is done and will not make a decision on anything even when pushed.
I've finally realised that he doesn't actually want to be a manager and is holding onto being a senior technician with all his might.
There are many many more issues that are shocking that I won't go into here.
I think I need to move on to a less toxic environment where I have a real manager that empowers me and their team, gives them the direction and resources to succeed... and can actually communicate!
hkusp45css@reddit
Have a discussion with him. Let him know that he's not growing into the role he's in, because he's too busy prosecuting the role he just vacated.
If that doesn't wake him up, have a discussion with HIS boss about it.
If it's worth getting mad over, it's worth escalating up the chain.
Frothyleet@reddit
Sure, if you have another job lined up. Or if you have equity in the company that is being impacted by mismanagement.
If not, you're putting a target on your back. If the company culture is great, they'd welcome this feedback, and it'd be relatively safe. But if this guy has been a problem this long, that seems unlikely, in which case you are gambling aggressively.
hkusp45css@reddit
Meh, if the alternative is to leave, I've had good luck with managing up.
Frothyleet@reddit
Sure, but in OP's situation, alternative is to say "okey dokey I will stop being emotionally invested and let my manager be stupid, perhaps while I look for a new job."
Calm_House8714@reddit
You need to stop setting things up until he approves a specific implementation guide/plan/outline. If he won't make one himself (tbf, not his job)
Just email yours to him. If you want to get a little spicy, say "this is the plan, please let me know if any changes are needed by applicable date as the systyem will be brought online then". Send one followup reminder. That way his silence becomes his approval.
hkusp45css@reddit
"unord" or "unless otherwise ordered" is a GREAT way to get shit done when you have a boss that is allergic to decisions.
Frothyleet@reddit
I don't think that'd help the OP, because it sounds like his manager would pick things apart regardless of whether or not he implicitly approved the project.
You could maybe get traction by refusing to proceed without written, clear instruction ("Why hasn't this gotten done?" "Oh, I'm waiting on manager approval for the project plan.") but you run the risk of being drummed out as the "not a team player" guy.
hkusp45css@reddit
Fine, at least you're getting feedback you can overcome.
CharcoalGreyWolf@reddit
Also, CC the person above him.
CeC-P@reddit
I'd go to his boss, the board, the CEO, whatever with concise notes and ZERO emotion. As in absolutely zero, trust me. Just state the problem, show examples and evidence, say it's a pattern and you're concerned, and don't mention anything about leaving. If they fix the problem, don't leave. If they don't, then do.
SpaceGuy1968@reddit
I just had a boss like this... thankfully he left
This is a "certain type" of management style I have seen before.
If my former boss didn't leave, I was leaving...the disaster of IT infrastructure was straight up because of his poor leadership and aging skill set....
You can complain to HR or his boss, but I think this would reflect badly on you.....or you can leave and let HR know how poorly this guy has been managing things
HerfDog58@reddit
Unless the manager is doing something that puts the company at risk of being on the losing end of a legal claim or some kind of financial liability, complaining to HR probably won't do anything to help. If they say anything it will be along the lines of "take this up with the management of the team."
Several years ago I read a book by the guy who founded Seal Team Six. He used a process he called UNODIR when he wanted to get around the chain of command, cut thru red tape, and avoid management interference. If he wanted to undertake an action, he'd send a notification to the commanding officer saying something like "Unless Otherwise Directed (hence the UNODIR), at 11AM I will commence the operation to infiltrate the enemy position and steal the classified documents." And he'd send it at 10:59AM, and then go on his mission. By the time the commander read the communication, it was too late to countermand the operation.
I've actually done that a few times in my career - I've sent emails to managers using the "Unless Otherwise Directed" language, telling them what I intend to do, and giving them basically no time to tell me no. It's worked out most of the time; a couple times the manager raked me over the coals, until my methodology was proven to provide the best solution, after which there was no further discussion.
You could try it and see if it works for you...
ThEGr33kXII@reddit (OP)
You're quite right. That's been tried and it has been completely ineffective.
achristian103@reddit
You can talk to guys like this all you want, but it won't do you any good.
Managers who won't delegate aren't managers.
The micromanaging, the meddling - he's trying to protect his spot.
Working for someone like that is a sure way to have your career stagnant. Move on ASAP. It won't get better no matter what you do.
ThEGr33kXII@reddit (OP)
I have finally come to that conclusion. I have managed to learn a lot in the time, mostly through constantly fixing his mess.
I've had promotions while here, but they're mostly in title and "responsibility" (read scapegoat) but not the actual work, or more, moving past the technician daily grind.
SpaceGuy1968@reddit
This here...^^^^ I second this
Curtis_Low@reddit
Either jump ship or start an in-depth documentation trail. Request a weekly meeting to discuss topics. Make sure there is a bullet list agenda. Send out post meeting notes stating the items covered. If they won't attend the meeting after multiple request, seek out guidance from their boss. Not in an accusatorial way, but in a "We have had some issues in the past, and I am trying to prevent future ones, I believe these meetings would be beneficial for our team and company. Can you offer any guidance or suggestions?"
sonicc_boom@reddit
ResponseContent8805@reddit
Sounds like he wants it his way or no way at all. Which is fine provided he communicates which he lacks. I wouldn't personally go over my boss but that is just me, I've had the opportunity to do that in several careers and I just choose to move on.
If you've asked for the communication and it doesnt happen then polish resume get out while you can. Things will not change, they rarely ever do.