is it really still worth it to plan to leave the USA?
Posted by Little_Seat_8556@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 79 comments
hi. i’m a 29 year old woman who lives in a deep blue county in a deep red state. i live with my family and work in higher education since the beginning of this year. my plan ultimately is to work on my portfolio while saving up as much as possible to go to grad school in germany, belgium, the netherlands, finland, sweden, or france, or obtain a job-seeking visa (likely in germany.) i have B2 level french and am studying german currently.
all that aside, with the way the US is headed, is it really, truly worth it for me to devote most of my life outside of work with the intention to immigrate? i hit rock bottom last summer after my mentally above employer of 5 years cut my contract. i was unemployed for six months, and am happy to be working again. not paying rent has allowed me to already pay for a 2-week trip to germany to check out grad schools and cities i’ve considered moving to.
i have no hope for my future in the US. getting an MFA would cost me tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars i don’t have, and i have nothing holding me back here. i tried living in the cities my friends have moved to in blue states, but could never find work outside of my old job.
this is the mere thing that keeps me from giving up. i know nowhere is perfect, but being a queer woman in deep south amerikka is painful at best, and exasperating at worst.
so… should i keep planning? keep going? or is this a lofty pursuit?
KeepMoreMoney@reddit
Yes, keep planning. You’re already doing the smartest things: living rent-free to save aggressively, learning German, and booking a scouting trip to Germany in November. That’s not lofty — that’s strategic.
Thousands of queer Americans in similar situations have successfully moved to Germany, NL, or Sweden for grad school or the job-seeker visa. The path is real and doable, especially with your language progress and field (art history has demand in Europe). The US situation is exhausting a lot of us right now. Your plan gives you hope and a real exit ramp.Keep going. You’ve got this.
What’s your biggest worry right now — funding the MFA or the visa process?
Confident-Warning121@reddit
Jobs enough in the Netherlands, but housing no, no rental or buying impossible at this moment.
Sea-Breath-007@reddit
A job will need a usefull degree though, that will make OP stand out.....there's no way OP will get a job with their current degree and without fluency in Dutch, even with the extra degree, they probaby won't be able to get a job in education either, as even international schools have started to demand Dutch fluency from their new teachers.
Tardislass@reddit
Honestly I think you are living in a dream world. Being an immigrant is hard and acting like the US is the only Western country in dire straits shows me you have not read news or politics in other countries. There was a sentry out today on German news about how more Germans are unable to afford health insurance and how more people fall through the cracks due to lack of medical personnel.
The whole world is going through a global economic crisis and many countries are turning to the right because centrist governments are fixing anything. HCOL and fewer jobs for grads in a global issues. If you want to live abroad to experience it, that’s great. If you think it’s going to be always better than America with liberal minded people than you may have issues. Only you can decide why and how hard you want to work as an immigrant.
Gunzhard22@reddit
There are certainly worse places, absolutely, and challenges just about anywhere else; but the rest of the world isn't seeing what's currently happening inside the US. All of our news is meticulously curated and several are straight mouthpieces of the White House.
With all the changes to the courts, that Trump has been openly ignoring anyway, changes to our previous checks and balances, the CIA and the FBI and DHS etc... The sweeping voter suppression, the dismantling of education, dismantling of any system fighting to barely create an illusion of equality. Our health insurance crisis makes Germany's problems seem cute and laughable. At every level he's put incapable white nationalists in charge of oversight. Not to Menton the daily ICE raids that never makes the news. He's given away everything to anarchist / sociopath oligarchs. They control the media, have all the money and power. If Trump dies tonight, nothing will change.
If you want to see what's really happening, and the resistance, you need to follow places like 50501 Movement, The Meidas Touch, and the amazing and brilliant Historian Heather Cox Richardson.
HVP2019@reddit
I don’t know what curated news you are watching, but I have seen reports of immigrants wishing more than anything to remain in US. I have seen news of immigrants very reluctantly returning to their home country. Based on news I am watching there are a lot of such people ( people who prefer to stay in US)
I am one of such people, two of my neighbors are also immigrants from very different parts of the world and all of us would be very unhappy to return back to our home countries.
Of course as an immigrant, I may not be very informed about correct news I should be watching.
I had heard that many Republicans believe that immigrants lie about our dire circumstances outside of US . But it is surprising to hear that Trump haters also believe that millions of immigrants in US are … dishonest? naive? were ignorant when they chosen US over some other country.
Gunzhard22@reddit
That is quite an extrapolation, and not at all what I was suggesting.
But the mere fact that even asylum based immigrants are being delivered into the hands of their previous abusers is one of the MANY reasons the US is not safe for immigrants. None of the DAILY ICE activity is covered on the news. I've seen them in my own neighborhood though.
I don't think any "Trump haters" are suggesting that immigrants are dishonest, or not coming from worse places. The US has been a great place live - but the change is sooo drastic and so fast, and completely in the dark, entirely uncovered by the greater media. The things that are changing now will take many decades to undue if it's even possible.
HVP2019@reddit
Do you think immigrants haven’t seen dramatic chewing their own counties? One of my neighbors is from Yugoslavia. What his country went through was dramatic. Another one is from Syria. I am from Ukraine.
Gunzhard22@reddit
Honestly, I'm not even sure what you are arguing here. I don't think anyone has said that there aren't worse places than the U.S. or that anyone is stupid or naive for wanting to stay in the U.S. I love my home here. But the point I was making is... The things happening with our government are going almost entirely uncovered by the media, and it's so much worse than the average person sees. Where on a path to end up like Russia or worse; and it's happening at breakneck speed.
HVP2019@reddit
American media is not uniquely bad. People from places outside of US are used to living in the world where media can’t be trusted.
Gunzhard22@reddit
Yes and especially Eastern Europe is known for this - but what's your point? These things aren't mutually exclusive. And the difference here is we've had, more or less, fair news until very recently.
Gunzhard22@reddit
Yes I am not disagreeing with that at all. And in fact, involvement from the US is also directly related to much of that. So much of the world is shit right now. That doesn't discount the fact that the US is on an impossibly bad trajectory now.
HVP2019@reddit
So bad that you believe I should sell my house, quit my job, say goodbyes to my American in laws and my American family and friends, pull my kids from American college and move back to my country of origin?
Gunzhard22@reddit
Hey that's up to you. I certainly wouldn't move to Ukraine by choice now.
But again, unless you came here with lots of money... All the things that made the US great are rapidly changing for the worst.
RoundAd4247@reddit
Have you ever travelled outside the USA? Doesn’t sound like you have a realistic idea about any of the countries on your “dream list”.
You cannot work as a (art history nor any other) teacher in any EU country you’re not native level fluent in the official languages of, and haven’t gone through that country’s education for teachers (including the requisite masters degrees in your subject and education).
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
i have. i’ve been to europe multiple times. i’m going back again this fall to be completely sure of germany, and again next summer/fall.
photogcapture@reddit
Look into teaching at an international school. They have a system of schools. My friend taught elementary around the world. You can do this for higher level but college is much harder as there is super high competition and you are a native English speaker not a German or Dutch or French native speaker. Your odds are extremely low but you can try. You can get a visa to study, then hope you get a job afterwards. It is hard
RoundAd4247@reddit
Getting hired when you need a work visa instead an equally or more qualified EU citizen/permanent resident in an international school in the EU countries on OP’s list are not realistic. European teachers have higher standards in education than Americans.
For example, in Finland the only international schools are a German and a French school and a bunch of IB schools. No reason to hire an American who cannot speak even a second language in any of them.
photogcapture@reddit
Good points. My friend was certified. She never taught in Europe. She taught in Vietnam, Turkey and the US (She's Aussie).
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
i’m looking at international schools as the most realistic option until i can get my language skills up to a fluent level. this will take years, i know, but i don’t know where in the US i can live and teach and make enough money to live independently.
photogcapture@reddit
I suggest getting certified in TESOL or TESL. However, the EU will emphasize British English over US English. It is different!!! Still, it's a start. You will also need a teaching license if you want to teach in an international school. There are a few hurdles to jump over, so you may be stuck in this nightmare a bit longer. TESOL/TESL/ESL would be your fastest path, and it may take you to Asia vs the EU.
misadventuresofj@reddit
Do you have a teaching lisence? What is your plan to get your credentials? Art at international schools can be competitive too. Not trying to be a downer but if this is the realistic plan, you may want to focus more on getting experience as a teacher and have a pathway to licensure, which may mean staying in the US a while longer or looking into nontraditional pathways that probably will not take you to your dream list.
RoundAd4247@reddit
You need to be more qualified than any EU citizen applying for the same job to get a work visa in an EU country. To teach, you must have your education recognised in that country’s system and have German/ French/ Dutch/ Finnish etc at a native level. In other words your “plan” is not viable.
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
understood. i’m aware of this and am planning accordingly.
FunboyFrags@reddit
The reason there’s no future in the United States is because the government is fundamentally incapable of solving any important problem. As soon as a solution is proposed, the Republicans make sure it is stopped (and even a number of Democrats help them.) so for me, the question was never what’s happening now; it is what does America look like in 5 years and 10 years from now, knowing that all our problems only get larger? That’s why we left. Not because of what’s happening today, but because of what is coming.
goingfourtheone@reddit
Uniparty. We’ve all been misled. For decades.
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
this is why i am preparing to leave. i graduated college in 2020, tried my best to secure solid work here, didn’t REALLY do that, and now this is the only path that seems to make sense.
goingfourtheone@reddit
You should definitely leave for greener pastures. Life is too short to be so unhappy. Good luck.
Beautiful_Resolve_63@reddit
Yes, as another American woman that left at 29, just go. You get more rights. It's easier to learn a language if you make it a hobby and have natives in your community.
People act like companies are going to throw your application out because they need to sponsor you, that's not the case. It took us 4 months of applying to land multiple job offers abroad.
I'm still working on my fluency to use my degree but it's not hard to get by with a pivot.
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
i might just go ahead with this. why am i waiting around?
therapyinenglish@reddit
Because you don't feel a right to your own judgments and sensibilities not only about this, but likely most other things in your life. You don't need permission from anyone, not even you, to live your life as you see fit. Move with where you're already going.
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
this is the sad truth. i’m the only progressive in a very conservative family. the only queer woman, too. i’ve always been my own person, and i feel isolated even living with family. after failing to find work on both coasts of the US, the only way out seems to be crossing the atlantic for opportunity.
therapyinenglish@reddit
you would feel less isolated if you were more of a friend to yourself. all I see in this post and this response is you continuing to undermine your own sensibilities. get off your case. get on a plane.
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
i can’t do it until november because of my job’s probationary period. but i’ll be in germany for two weeks then.
therapyinenglish@reddit
haha, i mean, in accordance with the reality of what you can do. but just stop getting out of your own way, live your life, find out what's what. worse comes to worst, it doesn't work out, and then you consult yourself on what seems like the next best thing for you to do.
Beautiful_Resolve_63@reddit
I second this. Moving abroad is not irreversible. People can move back or move elsewhere.
I do recommend researching 10-20 countries that can be a good fit, choose between 5, meet those requirements, and go.
You have good advice. Life is too short. There is a big world out there. It's much less scary then it seems
Ok_Head_8178@reddit
That’s the question that you need to ask. I know your looking for reassurances here, but these answers are just giving you information that you already seem to know and have looked into before. A lot of them may come from a good place and are truthful but meant to dissuade.
Of course it’s not easy, you know this. Of course you may not find a job, and nobody can guarantee you one. Again, you know this. Of course there is going to be a process with the visa and other bureaucratic red tape.
With that said, plenty of people have done it. Asking questions like that in this sub is only good if you are looking for a reason not to go. If this is what you want, just make it happen.
The two questions you should be asking is what are you waiting for? And how would you feel on your deathbed if you never did this? Do you really think you’ll regret trying it? I guarantee that while it might not be smooth, you won’t regret it.
Beautiful_Resolve_63@reddit
Because everyone wants to scare you away from it. They are projecting. Pick a country with more equality and most things will also be an upgrade as well.
Focus on the type of culture and socializing you life. Commit to integration. Don't settle with your first round of friends there. Keep meeting new people and joining new clubs until you find your group.
Strict-Armadillo-199@reddit
I'm really glad you're happy with your life wherever you are, but I think it's really misleading to speak as if your experience is the norm (it's not), at the same time as not giving any specifics. What kind of job you're working without fluency and in which country. Obviously, you are surviving, maybe even thriving, without working in your field. But those same opportunities are not available in every European country. Certainly not in Germany.
I'm 53 and have lived in 6 countries. In Germany since 2003. And my immigration experience here was definitely harder than almost anything else I've done. I know that's a pretty common experience. Doesn't mean it's impossible and doesn't mean people shouldn't try. But your experience is not the norm. I think it would be more honest and fair to share that, and more details, when you encourage people to upend their whole life.
Beautiful_Resolve_63@reddit
I literally have not met a single person in person who struggled to move abroad. Every single person laughs and says it was the easiest decision and plan they ever made. Adjusting to the country was a bit harder but not unreasonable.
It seems the people online have a different experience, that's true but I haven't met any naysayers.
It just depends on if you are moving to a specific place. We applied to several countries and in several fields.
The best offer was £12k euro to relocate and move abroad. It was in the NLs with a STEM degree. He didn't need to learn the language. My specific humanity degree does, but I could also have an entrepreneur visa or came as an au pair. I get hired very easily and had companies offer to give me a separate sponsor after finding out my husband and I married very soon before moving. So they were just ensuring that I wanted to married and offered a way to stay outside of married.
Every person that I see comment about Germany online seems to think it's crazy difficult. Seems like you chose the unnecessarily difficult country. Basic history or a bit of research could have saved you from such an uphill battle.
Hope it all worked out for you. Our lives were thriving within 3 months of arriving here.
batjac7@reddit
Depends on your mental state. No, it won't help.
qjrbdisdhsld@reddit
I moved to Finland in 2018, this country has only gotten worse economically and unemployment is over 10%, trashing the US because the grass is greener on the other side you are in full blown delusional Disneyland in your head.
If you think Trump is bad wait til you meet a few of the locals who aren't so happy about all the immigrants from the middle east flooding their countries, bringing their own small world religious view and unwilling to assimilate to western values.
Good luck whatever you decide, but I just wouldn't crap on America because Europe has plenty of its own problems.
LiverKoolerFC@reddit
Keep going! I believe in you! One less blue haired "educated" lib
Bzzzzzzz4791@reddit
You’re in a cult!
LiverKoolerFC@reddit
Whoa!! Never heard that one before! Original, clever and just stunningly brave
Bzzzzzzz4791@reddit
Whoa! Never heard the one about hating blue haired libs either 🤪
HVP2019@reddit
Can you clarify where do you think US is going.
Because it feels like you believe that US will have worse future than many other countries, but if this is your belief, then you would also believe that moving to a country that has better future make sense for you.
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
fascism. more specifically christofascism. abortion fully banned, anyone who isn’t white is barred from entering the country or deported, and no one can afford to eat except for the ultra wealthy.
Beautiful_Resolve_63@reddit
Non Americans will claim the far right is expanding globally. In many countries, our "left" is their middle. So just keep that in mind. Nazism and fascism is not on a global scale.
Dialing back immigration policies and reducing social policies, is on the rise.
HVP2019@reddit
So why are you asking if leaving US makes sense?
AI-Slop-Bot@reddit
They aren’t asking. It’s a political rant.
therapyinenglish@reddit
You already know the answer. You're going to Germany in November. You're learning German, you have B2 French. You've been methodically saving and planning while working a new job. You said this is "the mere thing that keeps you from giving up." I don't think you're asking whether it's worth it, I think you've already decided and are looking for someone besides you to give you permission.
What's striking to me is that you've already built so much momentum toward something that clearly feels like the only real option you have, but then you somehow try to talk yourself out of it by framing it as a "lofty pursuit." What about this is lofty? You have concrete, well-thought through plans, and you wouldn't have bothered coming up with them had you thought this was somehow an out-of-reach pie-in-the-sky endeavor.
saphire_gander@reddit
Oh boy ☠️
The5Travelers@reddit
Absolutely not ...we are on the way back after a year in Europe.
Strict-Armadillo-199@reddit
Hi. In some ways, I was you 25 years ago. I'm queer, originally from the US, studied art history with plans to go into research/teaching. I have now lived in Germany for 24 years - not doing at all doing anything related to that, however. I also lived (for the mostly unrelated job I did end up doing) in 5 other countries before this - which I mention simply to highlight I've been around the block a few times in this "leave the US/make a life abroad thing".
While I get your financial reasons for doing a Master's in Germany (it sounds like you've done your research and know about the blocked account requirement), I really don't believe it will lead to the kind of career you describe wanting. You may be 1 in a million, but bluntly speaking, it sounds more like an American's fantasy about Europe than reality. You are competing against all the locals with fluent German who want to work in the arts, and there are more than plenty of them, just like in any country. You don't say at what level you'd like to teach, but the requirements for primary and secondary are a lot more than in the US, mean a Masters in education (in most states) and do require fluent German. But that goes for pretty much any job right now during this economic downturn - even fastfood jobs require B1. If you want to study abroad to save money and have an experience, by all means - come for 2 years (I'd go pretty much anywhere else, but it's not my first rodeo, so...).
I highly recommend posting this on r/germany, as well as reading their wiki, so you're not just going on my opinion.
If you really want out of the US permanently, I think the much more realistic option is to study something that a country of your choice actually needs and wants (see each country's critical skills list). Or to get your US teaching certificate and join the international school brigade - although the jobs for art teachers are fewer than other subjects and have a lot more competition. Honestly, you have more of a chance to make it in the arts in your own country than you do anywhere in Europe.
r/germany r/internationalteachers
Wins_Smith@reddit
Yes, you should. Lofty pursuits are the best. Similar location and politics in the states. Shot to Canada March 1 for 3-6 months. Costing lots of money. Furiously seeking work. May fail. But my partner of 30 yrs and I have to try. The yew ess has lost its mind and no one is checking the growing technofascism. Make a solid fallback plan. Burn no bridges.
howimetyourcakeshop@reddit
You do realise that you can't just move to Europe because you want to right? We have immigration laws to you know.
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
i am fully aware of this?
howimetyourcakeshop@reddit
Seems to me that you do not.
BagApprehensive1412@reddit
She acknowledged it in her post and in her replies
gameover281997@reddit
I left USA for Vietnam and I highly recommend tefl and going to school for higher degrees to eventually teach in international schools… I could not be happier with my decision to leave the USA.
Emergency_Gold_9347@reddit
Are you a publican or a libtard?
This will allow the expat community to
Answer your question 😎😎
PhysicalAgent9063@reddit
Yes
Desperate_Formal_781@reddit
I think Germany seems like a realistic possibility. Education is very affordable, and you can work part-time to support your studies and living expenses. Language is important, but in large cities, like Berlin or Cologne, you can make it with English while you learn the language.
Caelista_x@reddit
Even if you just attend grad school overseas and later decide to come back, that experience and degree could be helpful for you in the future. Maybe that’s enough of a plan at this point.
My spouse has a degree from a European university and that’s been a plus for job opportunities here in the US.
FinestTreesInDa7Seas@reddit
Have you considered Canada?
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
i’ve considered montreal, yes!
sacroyalty@reddit
As someone who did what you're talking about, it is honestly a lot and even with language skills it is very hard and idk if I'd recommend it to most people
mountain-mahogany@reddit
Yes, get out if you can go to a nicer place. Just the gun control is worth it. Other features are great, too.
spot_removal@reddit
Of course it’s worth it. Lots of expats love living in BE or DE. I’d say go where you’re treated best. I work in hospitality, and the best salaries for that are in the Gulf, Asia/SEA. I’m so glad I left Germany and later Europe. Teaching salaries are not great, neither in BE nor DE and taxes are high in both cases. Maybe consider outside Europe?
Asides from the money, you might just enjoy the different culture. I think Belgium was one of the first countries and very early to legalise gay marriage. Germanies bigger cities are pretty open too.
North_Artichoke_6721@reddit
Are you willing to go somewhere that’s not Western Europe for a few years to build up your experience and network?
Have you considered doing TEFL? I needed fresh start after a bad breakup, and I got a TEFL certificate and spent one year in China and a second year in Turkey. It might be a way for you to make some connections and get international experience, if that’s something you’re interested in.
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
i have and it’s on the table.
informal_astronaut3@reddit
Starting over in a new country is no joke. It's not impossible, but you need to be completely dedicated and sure of the idea. It will be a big sacrifice and you'll question your decision after the newness of a place wears off.
> i have B2 level french and am studying german currently
This really means nothing
> i have no hope for my future in the US
That's actually a good reason, just make sure it's really true and not based on feelings. There are many places that are better than the US, depending on what you value, and you're right, nowhere is perfect. Have you looked into actual requirements for getting a visa for the countries you want to go? Do you qualify? Is your career path truly brighter there, or does it just appear brighter due to your exasperation?
Going there for university would be a decent way of trying it out, since there is a natural decision point (the end of your studies) where, based on your experiences, you could either choose to return to the US or continue there in a career...
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
it’s no joke, hence me staying in the US far longer than i would like to, and moving back in with bigoted family.
the government has shown itself to be evil and reckless. women’s rights will likely be stripped in five years. the government has hinted at the idea of regulating what student loans go toward, and i wouldn’t be able to afford another degree for a better job. USD is falling. the empire is collapsing. i just want affordable healthcare and to be able to live comfortably and not with my parents.
Historical-Fish-1665@reddit
kinda strange post for strangers to answer.
just ask yourself what answer you're wanting to hear.
Early_Remote8738@reddit
Keep planning, but build in checkpoints so you don’t burn out. Do the Germany trip, talk to program admins and current students about funding and post‑study work options, and run a simple budget for each country, including visas and health insurance. Also try to line up remote income while you prep, it takes pressure off when you land, wfhalert sends out verified remote jobs by email and I’ve seen solid admin and support roles there that aren’t scammy. If you can get a TOEFL ready English tutoring certificate or a modest tech skill too, that pairs well with grad school and buys you time.
napalmtree13@reddit
This is better suited to r/AmerExit
Little_Seat_8556@reddit (OP)
i just posted there. thanks!
GlobalMoves@reddit
Hey, first of all, I just want to say you’re not crazy for thinking this way. A lot of people are quietly asking themselves the same question right now, especially when they feel like their environment isn’t aligned with who they are or the life they want.
From what you wrote, this doesn’t sound like a “lofty dream” it actually sounds like a pretty grounded plan. You already have language skills, you’re saving, you’re exploring schools in person… that’s way more real than most people ever get.
Europe (especially the countries you mentioned) tends to be much more structured when it comes to things like education, healthcare, and general quality of life, and for many people, that alone makes the effort worth it.
That said, I think the healthiest way to look at it is: don’t treat it as “escaping the US,” treat it as building a life somewhere that fits you better. That mindset tends to make the whole process more sustainable.
If anything, you’re in a great position right now, living at home, saving money, testing things out (like your Germany trip). That’s exactly how you de-risk a big move like this.
One practical tip: keep multiple paths open, grad school + job-seeking visa + even longer-term residency options. Some people don’t realize there are structured ways to eventually stay in Europe long-term beyond just studying or working. 
If you keep moving step by step like you are, this is very achievable.
You don’t need to have your whole life figured out, just the next move.