A smoking themed restaurant: You know how smoking is illegal in restaurants? A restaurant which finds a legal loophole to make smoking legal.
Posted by phatdoof@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 116 comments
BlkRosePhoenix@reddit
In most areas that restrict smoking inside, there are no legal loopholes for a restaurant to have smoking inside, otherwise there would be restaurants using that legal loophole already. In the very few areas that do have legal loopholes, they are using them currently. Although I think all of those have been phased out with updates to the law except for some things in Vegas. Like you can eat at a Strip Club and smoke.
drummerandrew@reddit
A vast majority of restaurants in all of Nevada allow smoking. Certainly most bars do, and they serve food. It needn’t be a casino or strip club.
BlkRosePhoenix@reddit
That's fair, probably shoulda googled that first, I wasn't sure, I just knew strip clubs allowed it and remember at the Casinos I went all the restaurants I went to did not allow smoking. Although they were all fancy settings so it might have been more to do with that. Obviously, you could smoke through the rest of the casino.
BlkRosePhoenix@reddit
Also, the market for being able to smoke inside is not what it used to be. Cigarette smokers have gone way down in recent years, and most of the smokers I know wouldn't want people smoking inside restaurants. It could be possible it would be more of a hindrance to business than a boon as you lose any customers that do not want smoking inside the restuarant and restaurants are very very hard businesses to keep afloat unless they already have a big name attached to them.
Western_Aerie3686@reddit
This is exactly right. I have family who owned a bad before/after the smoking ban. They said business exploded the second they banned smoking, and this was 25 years ago, when a lot more people smoked.
Open a smoking allowed restaurant and the only clients you have will be smokers.
Legal-Stage-302@reddit
I remember back in the early 1990s when it came on the news that California had banned smoking in bars. I was actually in a bar at the moment and a guy next to me said they’d have to close their doors.
A few months ago my son was visiting and we went to a bar and spent a couple hours watching a guy sing. The next day I told him if I spent two hours in a bar at his age I would have to have my clothes fumigated.
Western_Aerie3686@reddit
Too funny. I used to have a pair of “bar jeans”, I would take them off on my back porch before coming inside, and they’d stay there until the following week when I went back.
gott_in_nizza@reddit
It's absolutely amazing what we used to put up with and considered normal.
Darmok47@reddit
I recently went to a Middle Eastern restaurant with a smoking section for hookah and a non smoking section.
Was kind of surreal being asked smoking or nonsmoking in 2026
lemelisk42@reddit
Heated/cooled patios with roofs. Can essentially make it indoors for all intents and purposes while still being "outdoors"
Ateist@reddit
The pesky thing is second hand smoke for human stuff.
If you register it as private club and don't have any workers in the smoking area (replace them with robots?) you should be able to operate such a restaurant in any state.
BlkRosePhoenix@reddit
So I guess litterally what you are talking about already exists and are called Strip Clubs in Vegas
Cogwheel@reddit
So... the loophole is go to a place where there isn't the law that you need to make a loophole to get around?
Spackleberry@reddit
Law enforcement hates this one trick!
Jeremy-Hillary-Boob@reddit
There’s a bar near me where the patrons smoke inside. I didn’t know and I too my SO to it because it is so popular and I heard they had good food. We walked in and turned around and walk right back out again.
Idk how they get away with it and I’m glad there’s a place for people who enjoy smoking can go to get some good pub food.
alexanderpete@reddit
In Australia, if there's poker machines and vents, you can smoke inside. Has to be a seperate 'gaming' room, so there are ways to circumvent the rules.
fatbunyip@reddit
>there would be restaurants using that legal loophole already.
It depends on the restaurant and the clientele and the regulations.
For example the definition of "inside". I've seen places where the definition of inside according to planning regulations or whatever was based on the proportion of area open to the outside, so if they opened the back and front doors (which were like almost the whole width of the place) it was considered an outside area. I've also seen those plastic roll down window things not be considered technically a wall.
It can also work the opposite way. In Australia, smoking is allowed in outside areas, but not if there's food being served, so many places ban smoking outside because they make more money from people eating than people drinking and smoking (although it depends if they're trying to be more of a pub than a restaurant).
But in general the vast majority of places will make more money by catering to non-smokers than to smokers so there's really no incentive to game the system.
diditforthepoints@reddit
It’s called a hookah bar, chief
heavysteve@reddit
There's a tiny little town I drive through occasionally that has a bar you can smoke in(at least last time I went there). The smoking ban was put in place to protect employees, he argued since he's the only employee, and he smokes, everyone else should be able too. They just let it slide.
SomebodysGotToSayIt@reddit
One of the compelling studies that led to the ban on smoking in restaurants was the high incidence of lung cancer among non-smokers who worked in restaurants/bars that allowed smoking.
So fuck the staff? Is that what you’re saying?
Nolsoth@reddit
I'm old enough to remember when restaurants allowed smoking or had sfregsted areas.
Even as a smoker (yep I'm stupid) I wouldn't fucking pay to go back to that shit, you see it still in places in Asia, it's just foul.
ryanertel@reddit
Y tho
Scrangdorber@reddit
Nathan For You did this. It was technically a theatre and all the guests were performing in a play. It was hilarious. Give it a watch.
ThatAndANickel@reddit
We had a smoking section. It was sort of indoors/outdoors, so it was never challenged legally in the 14 years we ran it starting right after the law changed. So, I guess we found that loophole.
We had to close it.
At first, it was fairly busy. But with each passing year, fewer and fewer people would even think to ask if there was a smoking section. It became less and less busy.
It was the regulars who knew about it that mostly occupied it. Over time, they stopped ordering food. Sometimes, they even came and used it after dining elsewhere. They'd sit for hours smoking cigars they brought in and maybe ordering a cocktail or two. We even had problems with them bringing in their own liquor. It wasn't a good situation for the servers. It wasn't particularly beneficial to the restaurant either.
Finally, if we ever had to fire an employee who worked the smoking area, they'd find an employment lawyer to rake is over the costs for making them work in second hand smoke.
XannedO@reddit
It would just be a 'Private Cigar Club' that happens to serve incredibly expensive sandwiches as a side effect. The loophole isn't the food; it's the fact that once you pay a $1 membership fee, you're no longer in a public space, you're in a 'private study' with 50 strangers
Ateist@reddit
Employees health regulations would still prevent its operation in many states. You should do what Japanese did and replace human waiters with robots.
NaiveZest@reddit
They have tried, but the regulatory requirements to make it safe enough for employees are necessarily limiting. There is a neat book about the campaign to end smoking in bars and restaurants from a public health perspective called Saving Gotham.
Ateist@reddit
It's XXI century, employees can be replaced with robots.
Pizello11@reddit
is it that? i would like to read it
SentenceAwkward5302@reddit
You would "like" to read it? What's stopping you? Dyslexia? 🤔
NaiveZest@reddit
Yep that’s the one. If I remember correctly, he ended up working in Philly on the sugary beverages campaign where extra costs were added to beverages with added or inflated sugars. The idea was that those funds would then fund local daycare and prekindergarten programs so the burden was not placed on the families who could not afford it.
agrajagthemighty@reddit
in WI the casinos can allow smoking if they want, since they're Tribal Property.
TheMostRed@reddit
Im not sure about everywhere but I think here public spaces are meant to be smoke free. Maybe if all your restaurant goers were your "friends" and they came to your "house" for an "free meal" and they gave you "gifts" as tokens of their "appreciation". Maybe that would technically be okay but I think for many other reasons youd still be breaking some code or law just trying to accommodate the shrinking smoking population. Feels like a bad business strategy.
buildyourown@reddit
Tribal casinos do this. Though most have realized that most people prefer smoke free
unicornioevil@reddit
Nathan for you
Tyrrany_of_pants@reddit
You sit in the park and we'll bring you a kebab
Tensor3@reddit
Your parks allow smoking? Wouldnt want to live there
justhereforporn09876@reddit
You allow parks? Wouldn't want to park there
Tensor3@reddit
I honestly havent seen any parks which allow smoking in a good 20 years. Its so mich nicer.
everymanawildcat@reddit
Lmao where do you live? Who exactly enforces this rule? And where do you draw the line? What if my backyard backs up to the park? Am I not allowed to smoke on my own patio because someone walking through the park can smell it 50 yards away?
Don't be a dillhole and light up right next to a family having a picnic, otherwise who gives a shit? I'm outside. Fuck off.
SentenceAwkward5302@reddit
You allow parking? Wouldn't want to kebab there
Bright-Plate-9872@reddit
It's called a club
Hairy_Pound_1356@reddit
There been a few one was technically a film set
phatbrasil@reddit
A smoking lounge that sells food?
delo357@reddit
There are places you can smoke in that serve food, but there are not places which serve food that you can smoke in
FamousLastPants@reddit
I’m part of a club/bar that is doing exactly that. Due to its classification as a private club, they’re allowed to permit smoking inside. Best dive bar downtown Indianapolis has to offer.
itsmeonmobile@reddit
I remember there used to be a loophole in my city for hookah bars (probably still is because they’re still here) where you would technically buy a membership to be there; like $5 or something. But since you’re a paying member, and it’s technically “members only” and not open to the public, they could smoke inside.
ctothel@reddit
What if the cigarette was outside, connected to a tube that you can smoke at your table. Better yet, have another tube you can exhale into.
afronomicon@reddit
There's a bar in GA go to every once in a while about 45 minutes away from me that lets you smoke in it. They even have a cigarette vending machine as soon as you walk in the door.
itsrainingchihuahuas@reddit
Doc's?
afronomicon@reddit
No, Good ol' Days. Where is Doc's?
itsrainingchihuahuas@reddit
Cobb County. Only been there once. Was surprised when I walked in to smell smoke and see a cigarette machine. Even looked up GA law afterward because I hadn't been in a bar/restaurant that allowed smoking in many, many years. Bars can choose to allow smoking in GA but no one under 18 is allowed as a customer or employee.
afronomicon@reddit
I'll keep that place in mind next time I'm out that way. And Good ol' Days threw me for a loop when I walked in for the first time. I don't routinely smoke cigarettes anymore, but when I got there I bum one or two. Lol
TD802@reddit
Also Varner’s in Smyrna. The bar area is 21+ and allows smoking. The restaurant section is separated by windows and is non-smoking. Not a smoker but love that spot.
Thhe_Shakes@reddit
Yeah GA is bad for it. I've got 3 within 5 miles of my house. I imagine they'll be struggling to stay in business pretty soon without any changes, based on the average age of their clientele.
afronomicon@reddit
What you're saying is true. It sucks because they make a damn mean French dip sandwich and I've never gotten a bad pour.
high_everyone@reddit
So if their business dies off it’s self inflicted.
Nannyphone7@reddit
The Law exists to protect people that work there.
Would you want to work in an office with asbestos pumped into the air??
ICK_Metal@reddit
I smoke (trying to quit, been 12 days) I wouldn’t want to go to this restaurant. Smoking outside is much better imho.
Stoliana12@reddit
Where I am (western NY, USA)there’s a loophole for smoking in cigar places.
Wonder if they could then like add a snack bar and then sorta get away with it.
meltedpencilman1@reddit
In Canada smoking indoors is illegal, however in Toronto there is a “marijuana research facility” that offers all you can smoke and comedy shows for $35 dollars and because its “research” it’s allowed in doors. Please note the comedy was sub par but the weed was great!
Legal-Stage-302@reddit
Can a restaurant make themselves a private club (with very low membership dues such as $1 a year) and get around the law?
The-disgracist@reddit
This is literally a thing. They’re called smoking clubs
Aeon1508@reddit
I'm pretty sure you're allowed to have smoking lounges but the caveat is that you're not allowed to sell any prepared food or drink. You can have vending machines with pre-packaged stuff though I believe.
wizzard419@reddit
A place tried that in NYC in the 90's when they started banning smoking, The setup was similar to a KBBQ place, lots of exhaust fans. It didn't catch on since people weren't interested in paying a premium to dine in a place with food they can't taste.
A bar out here in SoCal also tried to dodge it by having narcs let them know when someone is coming to issue a fine. It didn't work either.
Legion1117@reddit
The way to get around that law is to make your restaurant a private club that requires a membership to enter.
You can make entry dependent on a $1.50 yearly membership fee and it becomes a "private club," immune from the usual no-smoking laws of a typical restaurant.
livinin82@reddit
/r/nathanforyou
originaljbw@reddit
Pretty much everyone has agreed that restaurants are better without any smoking.
The real question is how many packs a day are you up to? You make it sound like a 90 minute meal is an unberable amount of time to go without smoking.
wintermute023@reddit
Who has agreed that? I don’t recall that meeting.
I’ll agree it’s a public health issue, which is why it’s a good thing. But better? That’s subjective, and I know many who would prefer to be able to smoke inside, and think that while healthier, they are subjectively worse.
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Nate_Christ@reddit
Every single post. What buzzword did they trip over this time?
doctau@reddit
Everyone is definitely too far. However I live somewhere that allows smoking inside, and almost all the smokers I know prefer restaurants to be smoke free, but like being able to smoke in a bar.
Nate_Christ@reddit
If everyone agreed than why would they have needed to pass a law on it? The restaurants would post their own signs. It would be nice to have an exception. It's a nice friday night and you just got paid, why not head down to the smoking restaurant with a friend and enjoy a meal with a cigar, or a joint even
originaljbw@reddit
because smokers are inconsiderate and care only for themselves.
fuzynutznut@reddit
Damn, I heard smokers are worse than crackheads.
Trick_Minute2259@reddit
I think as long as alcohol makes up the majority of your net sales it's considered a bar, and you can smoke inside if it's a bar.....so maybe you could give away food for free with the purchase of alcohol, like a beer costs $30-40, but you get a "free" meal with your drink.
brain_over_body@reddit
If 50% of your sales or greater are alcohol, you are a bar and can smoke.
If 50% or greater is good sales, you are a restaurant and can't smoke.
Noodletrousers@reddit
That depends on jurisdiction. Where do you live?
brain_over_body@reddit
Pennsylvania. Very archaic liquor laws
Noodletrousers@reddit
Oh yeah! Is it still true that you can’t buy a six pack at those state run stores, you need to buy a full case and the only way to buy six packs is at the bar/pizza shop?
brain_over_body@reddit
It's becoming a LITTLE more relaxed. I'm not a beer drinker, but I know you can get a 4 pack of wine cooler at the state store, so same idea. And gas stations (some) and grocery stores can now sell 6 packs. But you can't buy more than 2 at a time, and you have to pay for alcohol at a different register. Can't buy gas and drinks together; can't buy milk and alcohol together.
When PA started to allow Sunday alcohol sales, it's actually referred to in the law books as "the dawn of civilization."
Noodletrousers@reddit
What a crazy thing. As with everything that has a nonsensical restriction on it, people find a way to get around it. Where’s the closest bar to you that allows indoor smoking (how far from you)?
brain_over_body@reddit
There are 2 about 4 blocks down the street, but I also live close to a university and a major business that has a large number of employees on shift rotations. Going a 1 mile radius, I can only think of maybe 2 more
Western_Aerie3686@reddit
I know or a bar in pa that divided themselves into two businesses when smoking was banned. The cut a hole in the wall between the kitchen and the bar, and you had to order and pay for your food there, but you could eat it in the bar. All to continue to allow smoking.
I don’t think they do that anymore even, not worth the effort.
brain_over_body@reddit
And actually, I'll correct myself.
The 50% rule is what we call the "pizza hut rule" but smoking is only if 20% or less of sales are food.
Fuzzy-Shine2189@reddit
There’s a Nathan for you episode about this!
Big_Cassowary@reddit
Smokers Allowed is peak theater
Noodletrousers@reddit
What I’ve noticed reading through all of the comments is a propensity to generalize based on the commenter’s location.
Smoking indoors is one of those hyper-localized things. Some jurisdictions are pretty hardline about it where it’s just pretty much impossible. Most do have some loopholes. I’m only familiar with a few jurisdictions as I’ve looked into the rules in these specific places as I really like smoking inside because I live in a colder climate.
For instance, there’s only one place I know of locally that allows smoking indoors and serves food. It’s always busy because they offer something no one else does. It can be a winning business idea if your area is similar to mine. You’re really only appealing to <5% of the population, yet that’s enough to keep your place afloat. People tend to be very loyal to a spot that allows them to do what they can’t anywhere else.
Are you truly interested in setting up an establishment where one can have a full service restaurant open to the public which allows indoor smoking?
CrossXFir3@reddit
There's still smoking bars that serve food in my city. Not many, but a few.
Noodletrousers@reddit
What’s your city?
Mchatas@reddit
This is literally the premise of a Nathan For You scheme
BaunerMcPounder@reddit
Private club.
mattbod@reddit
Corner those cats and offer them an ultimatum. That’ll make them guess REAL quick
Or churu cat gogurt
WHOTOOKMEEP@reddit
IIRC they had those for a while. Smoking inside was allowed for a while only during theatrical productions, so the bar or restaurant was a constant life audience participation play, therefore they were allowed to smoke. Though even if the story is true, even in the story it supposedly got shut down quickly.
shta2@reddit
This was an episode of Nathan for You
moosefre@reddit
how is this not the top reply on this post?
SudburySonofabitch@reddit
I was talking about this a few days ago with someone.
Pitiful_Mouse_2989@reddit
Gross.
Th3P3rf3ctPlanz@reddit
It's called a cigar bar. I can drive 2 miles and go to my favorite one. Smoke a cigar or cigarettes while drinking and eating pizza, burgers, or other "bar" food.
I'm sorry but this isn't a crazy idea, maybe just something you can't do.
CarlJustCarl@reddit
Put it in a casino
BargerianJade@reddit
You make the smoking section a play called "smokers allowed" and the non smoking section is the audience
Minute_Eye3411@reddit
In France there are private clubs (which can be for anything - for playing pool, for football supporters to meet, for knitting...), and it is legal to set up bars and food in them as long as the right permits have been obtained.
As they are private, smoking is allowed if the club says it is. And here's the thing - the club also gets to decide if non-members are allowed to use the facilities or not.
This is how I get to smoke a cigarette while playing pool, drinking beer and eating a sandwich, because I don't go to a bar (where smoking is illegal), but a private pool club. And I'm not even a member.
CoolBev@reddit
The Tiki Ti bar in LA allows smoking. As I understand, you can’t have smoking if you have any employees, but Tiki Ti is run by the owners, so that doesn’t apply.
SentenceAwkward5302@reddit
Smoking separately from the food/cosumers and the culinairy is not a crime. In fact, the opposite. Smoke away, just do it someplace else.
Pristine-Aspect-3086@reddit
the anchor grill in covington, kentucky does this, although i think they're just in defiance of the law than operating via loophole
ElderberryMaster4694@reddit
There’s a bar up the street from me that allows smoking
I believe the loophole is called “idgaf, I’m one of the old school Italian families around here so get out of you don’t like it”
siamonsez@reddit
My understanding is you can make it a private club rather than a restaurant open to the public and you can have smoking inside but you have to have a hardcore hvac and fire system.
beamerpook@reddit
I didn't think it's illegal, I think it's just most restaurant choose not to allow smoking, or if it's a chain restaurant, the corporate heads do not allow it.
But there's plenty of businesses that allow smoking, like bars and strip clubs.
BlkRosePhoenix@reddit
It's a lot, if not most, and if not all, states no longer allow smoking inside restaurants. Many, if not most, don't even allow it in bars anymore.
beamerpook@reddit
Oh, I did not know that. I haven't smoked in years, so not keeping up with it I guess
Neat-Beautiful-5505@reddit
You could make it a members only club and that might let you get around any bans.
shecky444@reddit
I’ve seen places around like this for both tobacco and cannabis. Members only club but they sell daily memberships, as well as longer term stuff.
parma_jean-@reddit
They exist in almost every town and called VFW’s. You need to be a member or have someone sign you in… but they are pretty easily accessible to most.
FoxtrotSierraTango@reddit
I remember discussion surrounding this back when the laws were changing and private clubs with membership dues wouldn't have to ban smoking. The loophole was to charge a membership fee of $1 and record the customer's name.
Sweet_Speech_9054@reddit
In my state (NV) you can have smoking in restaurants in certain circumstances. I think it basically has to be a bar and exclusive to 21 and older along with some advertising limitations.
Casinos are also exempt from some smoking laws.