Colorado's New Speed Cameras Can't Be Outsmarted by Waze or Radar Detectors for Good Reason
Posted by Viperlite@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 305 comments
Colorado has launched an automated, speed camera program on select stretches of highway that use average speeds between cameras to determine compliance. No points assessed to drivers, so they can fine the car owner, avoiding the need to ID the driver. Fear is, people will run with altered or no license plates to avoid fines.
jrileyy229@reddit
99.9% of people are not going to stop and take off their license plate... They're just going to set the cruise control at 7mph over the speed limit and go on about their day.
This seems entirely reasonable
backyardengr@reddit
An Orwellian nanny state seems entirely reasonable to you? Grow a spine mate
jrileyy229@reddit
Do you think people should regularly be going more than 10 mph over the speed limit?
Tallywort@reddit
Sorry, I have no clue how that insanity above you got upvoted.
No, some speed cams don't bloody mean it's an Orwellian nanny state. Far from it in fact.
jrileyy229@reddit
Yes, this is the most honest speed camera setup I've ever heard of. Giant signs telling you it's coming, and taking the average over the whole sector so you have no excuses... And only a $75 fine with no points.
It doesn't get any friendlier to the motorist than that. If you get a ticket you're an idiot or you just basically made a business decision that you will just pay $75 and not care.
And you fine the car... But in reality how often do people drive someone else's car at excessive speeds? Most people most of the time are driving their own car. And if you're driving someone else's car, don't be a degen
backyardengr@reddit
Yes. Modern cars are incredibly safe going 80mph in the straight empty roads outside of Denver.
Do you really think the state should sell out our privacy rights and our 4th, 6th, and 14th amendment rights? Over something as trivial as highway speeding? If the state actually cared about highway safety, they would enforce distracted driving laws already existing as that’s the real issue.
This is NOT about safety, it’s about lining some companies pockets. And that company lobbied the correct people or has friends in high places to get this juicy contract.
jrileyy229@reddit
Cool...what about the person with the 1999 civic on bald tires with wheel bearings about to explode? You think they aren't going to go 85mph as well with everyone else? You're going to rely on them to be smart enough to "know better"that they probably shouldn't? That's not how that works.
So now you really need to implement a yearly inspection to make sure cars are roadworthy to go the speed limit... You do that and you screw over the people a different way. Now everyone has a $150 yearly cost and $50 of that will go to the state and everyone will call it a money grab. You'll have people that will lose their car because it doesn't pass and they don't have money to replace it. They might just drive anyway, so now you need to police valid inspection .. and you're going to do that with cameras. And then you need to find a way to police valid inspections from all the cars from other states.
I see this argument all the time, let's raise speed limits... Well okay, sure... MOST drivers in MOST cars would be fine if the speed limit was raised from 70 to 80... But nobody is going to go 80, they're all now going to go 90. So you give people another ten MPH and then they're just going to want more.
I mean this can go on indefinitely. You can cherry pick examples from both sides of the argument. Ultimately, the speed limit is what it is. If it's 70, then that's what it is.
If the cameras had a zero MPH buffer, I'd be on your side. In much of Europe, they have a 3mph buffer. The fact that they're giving you ten MPH leeway is what I'm saying is reasonable.
Forget the speed limit or the cameras... That's already done. Have 10mph means that nobody is accidentally going to get dinged.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
Some of what you're saying isn't true. If the speed limit was 100 mph it wouldn't just mean everyone drives 5-10 mph over the limit comfortably like they do when it's set to 55 or 65. People drive around the limit they feel comfortable and safe. People with cars that are beat to shit where you really feel the speed or have mechanical issues they're worried about will not be super speeding all of a sudden. And if there are a few who do, they're already doing it.
In road design they often set speed limits at the 85th percentile speed meaning the vast majority of drivers are driving at or under that speed. Unfortunately these things have not kept up with the times and so highway limits in many states have not been changed in many years to account for this. Either because of "safety" or because they don't want to give up ticket revenue.
Disclaimer: I'm arguing this from the standpoint of highways and it should not be interpreted as me advocating for higher speed limits in urban areas which is an entirely different issue when it comes to road design, pedestrian and cyclist safety, noise, etc.
jrileyy229@reddit
Sure... And I'm all for the speed limits being raised on highways... And partly just trying to be objective... Understand there are hurdles to overcome. Revenue for sure is one. Keeping people from doing dumb stuff is another.
I don't know that I share your Outlook on how people will drive. If the speed limit is 70, pretty much everyone in the right lane is going 70. It's very rare that you'd see someone doing 60mph in a 70mph zone... And if you did that is not a good thing... causes a lot more potential wrecks... Because the entirety of the right lane has to now change lanes.
If you make the speed limit 80, now you have someone going 60, many people going 80 are now merging into left lanes in between people going 90 in that lane and there are a lot of giant metal boxes with huge speed disparities all on the same 2 or 3 lane road.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
Speed differentials are dangerous and some people will always speed regardless of the limit (though this is likely very few people), but there are also other people who are just rule followers who will just drive exactly the speed limit. So going from 65 to 70 they will just up their speed to 70 which could actually cause less speed differential issues. Again this is why they do road studies and set a limit based on real life data... or at least they once did. One huge issue in the U.S. is poor driver's education and so people have awful lane discipline. People should not be camped in the left lane going the speed limit or under because then faster cars will have to pass them on the right. But if people have good lane discipline there is less of a problem. There will always be a few people going 60 who have just merged or are preparing to exit for example. But they should not threaten anyone going faster because they will be lanes over.
jrileyy229@reddit
Well, if you want to discuss what people "should" do, they should all be driving at the speed limit....because it's not a suggestion, it's a limit. Or, they are not required to use that road at all.
We know that's not realistic... Upping the speed limit will help us all get places in less time, but will not close the speed delta, it will increase them.
If it goes from 65 to 70, all the people who used to go 75 will now go 80. People who used to go 80 will go 85. So for the majority of traffic ,the Delta isn't going to change, the status quo will maintain.
But the slower cars doing 60 will have even bigger deltas. The deltas for merge points will be higher. And let's keep in mind stopping distance is not linear... It's exponential, but approximately 2:1 in real world speeds. Increasing highway speed limit by 10% increases stopping distance by 20%. Now nobody should ever be stopping on the highway, but the distance to slow to say 50mph from 65 is drastically less than from 75
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
You reiterated the same thing about if they raise the speed limit everyone will just go exactly the same amount faster, but I don't think the data actually bears that out. Again, I support traffic studies that set speed limits for highways based on how most people actually drive. If your point is that you want to keep highway speed limits artificially low for safety reasons then I guess go off, but I don't agree. That will just mean over half of people are "speeding" when traffic is light. Does that mean they're all bad people or maniacs or driving unsafely or does it mean that the speed limit should go up? Are you factoring in that stopping distances for cars on average have dome down over the years?
DarkMatterM4@reddit
You and I both know that this has nothing to do with safety or making sure people's cars are well maintained. Let's not bullshit ourselves. This is 100% a money-making scheme for the state and the private corporation that's running the cameras. Period. Our only hope is that this is all it ends up being used for.
jrileyy229@reddit
Again, on the surface, this isn't a money grab targeting the general public... This is more of a tax on super speeders. You, me, we may not like the speed limit, but it is what it is. Forget the fact that we don't like it.
It seems to me being truly objective here, they have made every possible concession NOT to be nailing "innocent" people.
-You have giant signs telling you it's coming -it is NOT an instant reading... It's an average over a distance .. so if you blow through the entry at 90, you just need to slow down for a while and you won't get a ticket -you get a ten mph buffer in addition to the averaging mentioned above -it's only $75. Never got a ticket in Colorado but in every other state where I have it's been way more than that.
So just about the only way you're getting dinged here is if you say F*ck it
DarkMatterM4@reddit
The problem is there is nothing stopping them from lowering the buffer to not get cited after a year or two. These programs need to start out as painless as possible in order not to get the public too worked up. Otherwise, tax payers will reject it outright. Because the cameras are maintained and managed by a private corporation, there is no need for them to go through any judicial channels in order to lower that buffer from 10MPH to, let's say 5MPH. Once the systems and infrastructure is in place, they can do whatever they want.
backyardengr@reddit
I don’t care to forfeit my 4th, 6th, and 14th constitutional rights on the off chance someone with a clapped out Honda civic gets a $75 ticket. With that money going to a Palantir type private company that’s trampling over all of our rights, rather than back into road maintenance. Which won’t change their behavior anyways.
We don’t need yearly inspections or any of that. You are mistaken for looking to the State to increase the safety in your life.
Euler007@reddit
Waze can warn you they are there and propose alternate routes.
EfficientTourist7480@reddit
Well 1 i know is on a major stretch of I-25 in between Denver and Fort Collins, there aren’t any alternates really to that
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
Also I think one important detail is getting lost in the news here, these things only ticket you if your average speed is 10mph over the limit. Which means if the speed limit is 75 then you need to be averaging over 85 across the entire stretch between cameras. That's a decent clip.
BUT, this is in a specific section of I25 that's undergoing long term construction, and the speed limit is 65. I've never driven through here, but averaging 75mph isn't some sort of crazy madman speed, this seems kinda nefarious.
So if
Mnm0602@reddit
Problem is it always starts like this and then it devolves into a gotcha fining operation. Can’t we just toll people a reasonable about to drive in faster lanes?
cbf1232@reddit
So, "pay to play" to allow people with more money to avoid congestion?
Pliskin_Hayter@reddit
Speeding in of itself doesn't increase the risk of crashes to any appreciable amount.
You know what does? Slower drivers being in the way.
MurphysRazor@reddit
You mean faster drivers trying to pass slower drivers unsafely is the reason. The option not to pass is there first since most fast lane campers are doing the speed limit or slightly over and passing some traffic, just not at the manic speeds with slot car lane changes like some others like to. Manic anger and impatience while driving in traffic like life is race in a movie to be won, is what's grown and gotten more dangerous.
Such_Addition_5502@reddit
Um no that’s not what they mean. You must not have much joy or love. Bet you’re a pretty unhappy person huh
MurphysRazor@reddit
Are you in their head to know the exact context? Let's hear your theory.
I could've agreed with half of what was said. It's funny I loosly point to a lack of compasion on the road where it counts while you make judgment over the frustration possibly driving the comment's tone without consideration for what's being said; like I've never been stuck behind Barney Rubble during rush hour.
Pliskin_Hayter@reddit
No. You being IN THE WAY is the reason that EVERYBODY ELSE has to switch lanes to get around YOU. Left lane is for passing. Not cruising. If you're in the left lane and you're not passing while cars are behind you, you're in the wrong. Full stop. No rebuttal. You're fucking wrong. End of story. Move.
Its actually the law in 49 states. Every left lane camper needs to stop being entitled pieces of shit. Move your slow ass out of the fucking way you self righteous pricks. Theres zero justification for refusing to move. You have no authority to police traffic around you. Fucking move.
MR_Se7en@reddit
Like a toll lane?
cbf1232@reddit
A toll lane is presumably still setting the speed limit to the level the road was designed for.
Allowing someone to pay to exceed the design speed of the road is a different beast.
santacruzdude@reddit
Toll lanes work because of congestion pricing. You don’t literally need to allow people to drive with a higher speed limit because the congestion in the regular lanes is what makes the speed difference. If there’s congestion in the toll lane too, it’s a symptom of the lane being underpriced.
MurphysRazor@reddit
It is a pay to play system and that has no place among public roads imo. Regular toll roads are bad enough. Speed in one lane improves emissions? I want to see the context behind that data, lol.
santacruzdude@reddit
Carpool lanes improve emissions. In California, the express lanes are psh to pay for single occupants and free for carpools.
MurphysRazor@reddit
Bla bla bla.. pay to play... bla bla bla.
Only three words matter
Spooky3030@reddit
I25 was designed and built almost 60 years ago. Even the cheapest piece of shit built today is safer than almost anything built then and can safely travel faster than they could then.
Snow_source@reddit
DC and Northern VA have been doing congestion priced fast lanes (65mph vs 55mph normally) for over a decade at this point.
It works fine. It's not a new idea.
matt2331@reddit
And also on 66 during rush hour (when previously it was HOV only). The people who complain about the dynamic prices are the people who were cheating beforehand.
sugarinducedcoma@reddit
No, the people who complain about the dynamic prices are doing so because they can’t afford to spend $50+ to be in the express lanes
matt2331@reddit
Which they wouldn't have been in anyways if they were still hov only. That's my point
sugarinducedcoma@reddit
The worst thing they could have done was add those express lanes. Got rid of one lane traffic permanently for non-HOV hours, thus making traffic exponentially worse, just to bring in more money via tolls.
matt2331@reddit
Oh I see we're talking about different things. You are referring to the HOT lanes and I'm talking about 66 inside the beltway. My problem with both of them is the companies that are allowed to profit from them rather than that money going back to the state.
Mnm0602@reddit
Everywhere that’s implemented this saw improvement in traffic flow for the people that don’t pay too because selfish people go to the fast toll lanes.
Sensitive_Box_@reddit
Its an infinite money glitch, and the people that support these automated ticket systems are fucking morons. There's some in here right now. Lol
franksandbeans911@reddit
They tried the red light cameras in Texas. Lost in court, ripped them all out. They were a cancer to your average commuter, and causing more accidents at intersections. I know this is a slightly different animal, but Americans are pretty serious about the right to speed, might as well be an amendment.
If there was some logical reason for this beyond collecting fines, they'd do something like scan randos to learn average traffic speed and fine people way above that (your 90 when everyone else is already going 75, ten over the posted limit). But alas, none of this can get sold to a city, county or state without fat fine promises in the contract.
Evilmoustachetwirler@reddit
Driving 10mph over the limit seems wild as an Australian. Doing 3km/h (around 1.8mph) is enough to get you a hefty fine and demerit points here.
santacruzdude@reddit
In Los Angeles, even though the speed limits are usually 65mph, if congestion doesn’t slow people down, they’ll typically drive 75-80. That’s the normal flow of traffic. “Speeders” will be driving 90+
Vic_Vega_MrB@reddit
I challenge you to find any freeway in Los Angeles in the daytime that you can go faster than 60 unless you're on a motorcycle. Let alone this 90 mph you're talking about.
bungblaster69@reddit
That's how atlanta is. Posted sign is 65mph and everyone including the cops will be doing 80
3klipse@reddit
80-90 in the 65 highways in AZ, still see people at night doing like 100+ just cruising too.
santacruzdude@reddit
Certainly not during the day, no. It’s when traffic is flowing, especially late at night
Tyking@reddit
The standard unofficial rule throughout the US is that you can go up to 10mph over the speed limit. For the most part you won’t be pulled over or ticketed unless you exceed that. Many police officers openly say this, though technically they could still pull you over if they wanted.
Naught2day@reddit
I got ticketed for going 8mph over. I understand that is unusual but the cop was just bored...I guess. That ticket was pricey though, did deferred adjudication and it was like $400. Smells like speed trap.
Tyking@reddit
Yeah, predatory speed traps may be an exception given that they’re profiting profusely off you and clearly not interested in fairness. I’m curious how fast you were going? 8 mph over is a lot bigger in a 15 mph school zone vs a 75mph highway lol
Naught2day@reddit
The limit was 65.
Riptrack13@reddit
Driving a Lambo probably doesn't help though either tbf 😂
Naught2day@reddit
At the time I was driving a Hyundai Sonata. I've been pulled over in the Huracan for going 25 over (in a 50) and got a warning. Then the cop started asking me about the car, too funny and asked me to slow down because he had gotten complaints.
PFD_2@reddit
That sounds miserable
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
If the official speed limit is 110, and you'll get fined if you do 10mph more, everyone does somewhere around 126 (or more likely, 125 indicated and ~120 actual). If you get fined for doing 2 mph more, everyone just does somewhere around 113. No matter what the speed limit is (assuming it's not like 200), most people will do somewhere close to rhe maximum they can get away with. We just don't have the same social contract where everyone agrees to do 15 over the limit, and therefore our speed cameras aren't adjusted accordingly. For the record, people do well over 110 in places where you can get away with it (I don't think I've done a trip over the Hay Plains where my codriver didn't do at least 130, and my father usually drives it at 160), but they do that knowing they risk a massive fine, well over 1,000 AUD if they guess wrong. The fines are absolutely brutal, I won't deny that.
PFD_2@reddit
Averaging 85 on the highway isnt some crazy madman speed either😭
WorldlyOriginal@reddit
It’s not… until a crash happens— which is what we need to base safety around. The kinetic energy of a crash at 85mph is not just a little bit worse or 30% worse than 65mph, it’s 70% worse.
PickleBooPop@reddit
Wait until you hear in Texas we have 80-85mph speed limits.
franksandbeans911@reddit
I've been on that, running 100 until two trucks inexplicably on that same highway, decide to slowly pass each other. The toll is stupidly high, it's like 20 bucks for a few miles, so I was puzzled that semis are on it to begin with. Should be banned.
WorldlyOriginal@reddit
Your point being?
My points still stand. 1. Higher speed limits almost always equate to more deaths and serious injuries. This is basically indisputable
Places are free to make decisions on the appropriate speed limits. We have a democracy, after all. One place having a higher speed limit than the other, doesn’t make one place ‘wrong’ vs another place ‘right’. But it’s pure fantasy to think that a higher-speed-limit road is safer than a lower one.
If you don’t think we should have speed limits at all, then I don’t think there’s any point continuing the conversation. But if you DO, then most data shows that average speed cameras, like the ones in the post above, are safer when implemented compared to point-based cameras
PFD_2@reddit
Oh BROTHER. 65 mph on the highway? Please just take the train or something 😭😭
The_Owl_Man_1999@reddit
That's slightly faster than the limit on pretty much every major freeway in my part of australia lmao
PFD_2@reddit
Illinois has parts of highway where the limit is 55mph? Do I drive 55mph on a 7 lane intersection? Absolutely not man lmaooo
The_Owl_Man_1999@reddit
crazy that americans just all do more than the limit, it's very strictly enforced here.
objectivePOV@reddit
Do you think driving 85 instead of 65 on a highway gets you somewhere significantly faster? Or do you do it for fun?
Unless you are on a 2000 mile road trip or your starting point and destination are both on the side of a highway, you will not get to your destination significantly faster by driving 20 mph faster.
Most starting points and destinations are not on the side of a highway, so traffic lights, stop signs, other cars, etc. will all slow you down and nullify any time saved on the highway.
Even if your starting point and destination are both on the side of a highway, you save only 4 minutes by driving at 85 instead of 65 for an average 20 mile commute. And you use up a lot more fuel for those 4 minutes.
bungblaster69@reddit
85mph is 31% faster than 65mph. That's 14 minutes for my 60 mile commute. I've also compared mpg cost and time. Driving slower saved me like $2/hr. That's not worth it IMO
PFD_2@reddit
Sorry brother but 65 on the highway is uber level speeds
objectivePOV@reddit
You know uber means super
PFD_2@reddit
Referring to the rideshare service, like lyft
franksandbeans911@reddit
In modern vehicles in most locations I'd say yes, but not as a blanket statement. I've been on podunk 2 lanes that aren't safe at 55 before, outside of Austin.
spooksmagee@reddit
Lowering speeds through a work zone isn't "nefarious" it's basic safety for both the people working in it, and those driving through it.
taticalgoose@reddit
Okay so legislatively require that the funds be used for road work and nothing else but that won't happen because this is just a foot in the door for wider reaching revenue generation from cameras. It sounds good to say "don't you care about the safety of construction workers?" but that's not why this is happening.
spooksmagee@reddit
Good.
I support speed cameras to enforce speed limits and then issue tickets to, and collect money from, people who speed.
b88b15@reddit
It is very often a bullshit money grab, with no workers present and extra monitoring.
There's a municipality in ohio that runs a work zone on an interstate in the summer when it's too hot to work there but out of state traffic increases, and they park two officers on top of a bridge and mail out tickets for going 65 in a 55 work zone to all out of state plates. They do this every year. It's the best repaired part of I80.
I agree with you in general that lower speeds are safer, but there is absolutely lying cheating and stealing being done by the cops using work zones which only serves to endanger workers and reduce trust in the cops in the long run. If they were actually working, if workers were present and they were actually worried about safety, they'd put a cop car there with lights on and they would be no money collected.
Alabatman@reddit
Unless it's Alabama where 50+ miles are "construction zones" without signage, work, markings if any kind. They've been doing that for decades to generate revenue off the interstates.
scroopydog@reddit
Exactly. What a twisted take. Someone died on I-25 northbound near Greenwood Village on Easter morning.
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
The C&D article does mention the 10 mph compliance margin before a fine is assessed.
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
A lot of em are saying that, what they're not really highlighting is that this is a 65mph zone and reduced from the normal 75mph. That's going to get a lot of people I think.
SerialExperimentLean@reddit
Isn't that exactly why it should be there though? You don't want people speeding past construction workers
zxrax@reddit
what about when there's no active construction?
I'm not really against this type of enforcement, to be honest... highways are boring and speeding a bit more on them doesn't improve my driving experience, and this is a much better enforcement mechanism than letting cops profile and selectively enforce. But "it's a construction zone" doesn't really change any of those opinions or make this more okay if you weren't okay with it in the first place.
sinkrate@reddit
You still shouldn't be speeding. You have narrow lanes, lake shifts, no shoulders, etc; work zones have about 3x the usual crash rate
SerialExperimentLean@reddit
Then the limit would go back up. I was only disagreeing with the argument that this is bad because people would be caught out by the lower speed limit
cloudsofgrey@reddit
10 over is pretty standard on highways and quite safe.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
The cameras will be set to 75 the entire way, they aren't (yet) smart enough to account for reduced speeds.
Facts_pls@reddit
Speed being dangerous or not depends on the road conditions. Not absolute speed.
So 75 could definitely be a lot in a certain area.
Hell, the same 75 on a residential street in a school zone is dangerous as fuck.
Tiny-Art7074@reddit
Enforcing speed limits with a +10mph AVERGE buffer through the entire distance is not nefarious. You have to go 10mph over the entire distance. Just do 8-9 over for a little while and you are fine.
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
You can take 287 the whole way, and depending on traffic, it’s not that much slower.
Rogue-Squadron@reddit
Yeah I’ve been taking 287 instead of 25 for years, but we should probably keep that quiet so the traffic stays there
Global_Chair9652@reddit
How hard would it be tho to jam it since it’s stationary
MotDePasseEstFromage@reddit
They are cameras, not radar.
Global_Chair9652@reddit
No they use lidar radar or road sensors
MotDePasseEstFromage@reddit
They use ANPR and time between photographs
MotDePasseEstFromage@reddit
No, they use ANPR and calculate time between photographs. Did you even read the article bozo
cars-ModTeam@reddit
Thank you for your contribution. Unfortunately, your comment has been removed.
Please read the removal notice carefully. Your post falls into one or more (but not necessarily all) of the following categories:
Please read the rules and the chain of action regarding removed comments and moderator actions before continuing to post. If you have any questions, please read the rules first and feel free to message the mods if you still have concerns.
Please do not send PMs or chat requests to individual moderators. They will not reply.
Cojo840@reddit
If you need a alternate path because you want to speed Ur a sociopath
IrinaAtago@reddit
It can also do the average speed thing.
Korea already has average speed cameras and it warns you and even gives you the average speed you're doing.
Facts_pls@reddit
And get asshole speeders off the highway? Sounds like a win
yyytobyyy@reddit
Waze will also tell you start and the end of the measured stretch, show a warning and your progress through that stretch.
We've had those for more than a decade.
r34p3rex@reddit
"Slow down and park here for 5 seconds to not get a fine"
crunch816@reddit
Sounds like Beerio Kart irl
runway31@reddit
Would be sweet if it showed you an average speed in that zone of the cameras, so you can slow down as needed
psaux_grep@reddit
TomTom tracks your average speed between the cameras (if they’re added correctly to the map). So does Tesla’s navigation.
AndrewCoja@reddit
Can't wait for all the crashes as people are slowing down and looking at their navigation to try to get their speed down.
Dr__Nick@reddit
This sort of time trial was actually a form of rallying on public roads in mid 20th century in Europe. I wonder if they still do it there. I guess they do now, thanks to speed cameras.
degggendorf@reddit
Wasn't that with paper toll receipts and not average speed cameras?
Dr__Nick@reddit
Probably. And you’d have a very accurate clock in the car and your goals was to get to the checkpoint before your time, wait and head through the check exactly on time.
lilleulv@reddit
Det you cruise control to a maximum of 10 mph over the speed limit. This potential fine isn’t difficult to avoid.
wwwhatisgoingon@reddit
I drove through like 9 average speed zones last weekend in the UK.
Guess how many times the scenario you suggested happened? Zero. Knowing how fast you're going isn't hard and the average speed zones here are have clear signage.
I'm not trying to be rude, it's just these zones exist in many countries and they work completely fine.
AndrewCoja@reddit
This is America, Buddy. People are dumb as hell here.
simeddit@reddit
This is the same kind of draconian horseshit they do over in Australia
RBR927@reddit
“Would you like to save 2.5 seconds on your route? All you have to do is make an unprotected left turn across 16 lanes of traffic!”
JARDIS@reddit
At this point they might as well legislate a GPS locked speed limiter in all new vehicles. If you're serious about cutting speeding and not just revenue raising this would be the test.
gezpachu@reddit
look forward to seeing creative solutions that rotate or hide plates to fight this dystopian bullshit
3klipse@reddit
Knew someone with a flip motor for his plate back in 2009 or 2010 for his GTO and when we used to have speed cameras set up around here.
Conpen@reddit
Are these cameras not a method of regulating the speed limit? We can't have officers every ten feet
Tourettesmexchanic@reddit
Electrochromic cover with a hidden switch
Teknicsrx7@reddit
How is it legal to fine the car owner, never prove who’s driving and don’t penalize them at all?
cbf1232@reddit
Why wouldn't it be legal? The car was speeding, so make the registered owner of the car responsible for any fines unless the car was reported stolen. Presumably the owner knows who was actually driving and can then extract the money from the actual driver if it wasn't them.
BillyJohnsFinds@reddit
I let my friend borrow my gun to take to the shooting range, but he actually took it and shot his neighbor. But it’s my fault because it was my gun! Yeah that doesn’t make sense.
hx87@reddit
If you can subsequently then sue your friend to get executed, go to prison and/or pay fines in your place, then that does makes sense.
zxrax@reddit
Actually that kind of makes sense, you shouldn't be lending your gun to your unstable friends. 100% your fault? No, but definitely not zero percent either.
I guess you don't think parents of school shooters should be held liable either?
BillyJohnsFinds@reddit
I don’t think the parents of school shooters should be held liable to murder, which is what the equivalent of this speeding camera ticket is as it doesn’t take the actual driver into consideration at all.
zxrax@reddit
A jury disagrees with you.
Crapitron@reddit
Extremely funny how you’re downvoted for the truth. Once again, Reddit, especially r/cars, is out of touch with reality.
cbf1232@reddit
We assign parking tickets to vehicles rather than people under the doctrine of vicarious liability, why not speeding tickets?
hatchbacks@reddit
That’s just not legally how it works
toppig@reddit
Isn't it exactly how parking tickets work?
backyardengr@reddit
It’s not. It’s a shameless cash grab. Some people must’ve got a nice vacation to sell out the general populace over this nonsense
Teknicsrx7@reddit
Gotta be a lawyer waiting around for this kind of case
DarkMatterM4@reddit
Unfortunately, the system is specifically designed to make it more expensive and more inconvenient to fight the ticket than it is to pay the fine. You'll beat this ticket every time by showing up to court but then you have to take the day off work, drive to the court house, etc.
Teknicsrx7@reddit
I meant challenging this procedure not just fighting a ticket
TheHud85@reddit
Is it not illegal to fine people using cameras in Colorado? As fucked up as Ohio is, there’s at least a law here that says if you get busted by a traffic enforcement camera, it’s not valid unless an actual sworn officer issues you a physical ticket at the time of the infraction. Is this not the case there?
FalseBuddha@reddit
The only way to challenge this procedure (at least through the courts) is by fighting the ticket.
exotube@reddit
Is this really any different from a parking ticket?
Sunnygrg@reddit
In the UK, you, the registered keeper, get a letter first to nominate the driver of the vehicle at the time.
Empty_Engineering@reddit
You nominate the driver
withoutapaddle@reddit
Yeah, you have the right to fight it, so who shows up to court? The car and the camera?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
TwiceInEveryMoment@reddit
Same here. We still have speed cameras all over, but the tickets you get from them carry no real legal standing and amount to little more than a suggestion that you give the camera company money. You can just ignore them and never face any legal consequences other than maybe having it sent to collections.
AutoModerator@reddit
No rage bait, memes, trolling, copypasta, or low-quality joke posts or comments.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
dantose@reddit
I can't find any SCOTUS decision that addresses this, but 7th circuit ruled on something applicable:
IDRIS v. CITY OF CHICAGO ILLINOIS:
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-7th-circuit/1118906.html
This need not mean that the owner bears the economic loss; an owner can insist that the driver reimburse the outlay if he wants to use the car again (or maintain the friendship). Legal systems often achieve deterrence by imposing fines or penalties without fault.
While we're all free to debate about what the law should be online, to change what the law is or how it's enforced would need an actual court challenge and convincing a judge to overturn that precedent.
EdgarsRavens@reddit
You constantly here stories about how law enforcement claims they can't ticket drivers for infractions caught on camera because "they aren't there and don't know who is driving" but apparently speed cameras capture enough evidence to do this?
Captain_Alaska@reddit
Here in ny part of the world it just gets sent to the registered owner and then you can nominate another driver if you weren’t driving.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
That sounds like a lot of effort that few people will ever want to do. But this isn't the first place something like this has been done, so it should be fairly easy to find out if that is something people did in response.
Also, running without plates seems like something that will get you pulled over faster than speeding.
Valdair@reddit
In Washington police totally stopped enforcing vehicle registration during COVID and never started again. I see a shocking number of cars driving around with long-expired temporary registration, expired reg, or just nothing whatsoever on their license plate or in their window. Probably like 5~10% of vehicles on the road any time I drive anywhere. I could see something like this spiking it by a lot.
salmonstamp@reddit
You haven’t spent much time in Denver. No plates or expired temp plates are extremely common and enforcement is basically limited to a handful of pre-announced “crackdown” weekends by local law enforcement
dirtymonkey@reddit
This guy needs to spend a day on the Denver subreddit if he thinks people here are getting pulled over for missing plates.
Domojin@reddit
Same in Vegas. If your tags are expired, you'll get pulled over by every cop that sees you. But missing plates, or paper dealer 'plates' that expired months or years ago? Totally fine.
UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit
The paper plates are still registered to your name are they not?
dirtymonkey@reddit
I want to say we don't even allow for people to get pulled over for missing plates / registration. The guy I replied to mentioned the "crackdown" weekends. Those are maybe the only time you have to worry.
They didn't even mail me a license plate for the first year I had my RS3 and I just drove around without a license plate. Never was a problem.
WaffleHouseFistFight@reddit
Ngl I drove around Denver for 2 years with expired tags and got 1 warning once.
One_Evil_Monkey@reddit
Haven't lived in CO in 15 years, lived just inside Douglas County, but even back then you'd see plenty of vehicles with no rear plate, no front plate, or no plates at all.
jakinatorctc@reddit
In the NYC metro you would be shocked how many people have license plate covers, intentionally obscure theirs by scraping off the paint, or run entirely fake temp plates ever since they increased camera enforcement for speeding, bus lane infringements, and toll. It’s created an entirely new (and imo worse) problem
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
They make products that can obscure the plate with the press of a button. It's illegal to run anything like this that obscures your plate in part or whole, but they exist.
ContextOfAbuse@reddit
Don’t even need the fancy ones with buttons. (And note the date of this post, too) https://www.reddit.com/r/redneckengineering/comments/za2s1i/think_they_sell_those_at_hobby_lobby_or_michaels/
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
lol that's for only specific regions at a specific time of year for it to be believable, but I like the simplicity.
Gaveltime@reddit
It’s incredibly low effort and cheap to do.
moonRekt@reddit
Taking off your plates is easy. People who drive buzzed etc are obviously not great candidates as you can get pulled over any time but it’s cheaper than registration. Keep insurance though
localtuned@reddit
The ticket is cheaper than speeding..IF you get stopped.
EpicHuggles@reddit
What are they doing to not only provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt that they are fining the correct person, but also protecting people's rights to face their accuser? In this case would the accuser not be an inanimate object?
MotDePasseEstFromage@reddit
The accuser is the officer that reviews the footage and approves the ticket to be sent out.
In the UK, a legal notice is issued to the owner of the vehicle to disclose who the driver was. If they weren’t the one driving, they have to nominate and provide details of who was driving.
Failure to respond to the notice comes with higher penalties than the speeding charge itself.
franksandbeans911@reddit
Yeah, they had an actual patrol officer reviewing footage for the few they deployed near me. Got me blowing through a red light, no other cars around, making a right turn but I was guilty as hell once they sent me the footage. Dead to rights, ticket backed by a reviewing officer. A month later they pulled all their cameras after losing a court case which was cool because sometimes I just kinda throw junk in the trash that might be important.
MotDePasseEstFromage@reddit
I wish our police were kept as in check as you yanks! You’re fucked if you get done by a camera over here
franksandbeans911@reddit
I just lucked out on the timing. I figured, late night, nobody near the intersection that I could see, I'd just consider the light orange and slide the tail around a little during that turn. A month earlier and it would have been more serious, but the whole traffic cam business in this state was under fire back then, on the verge of collapse.
niccotaglia@reddit
No plate, no case
X-e-o@reddit
I've seen these a few times (around Glasgow, Florence, Marseilles, etc.) and frankly prefer them over "traditional" cameras.
Allows you to pass at high speed without risking a fine and you don't get that wave of cars slowing down (and re-accelerating) suddenly right before a trafic camera.
10000Didgeridoos@reddit
10 MPH over the limit buffer seems fair as well.
My only concern is "will this system feed data to the Palantir hive mind of authoritarianism?" much like other camera systems law enforcement uses here that are convenient ways for prosecution to get around the 4th amendment by buying data on people as opposed to needing probable cause to search it.
CorrectCombination11@reddit
If you have a passport, your info is already there.
Ballingseagull@reddit
Not sure what you mean? People are worried that camera systems like this, that track a start point and end point, can be used to path out all the routes and movements tied to your car. I don’t understand your connection to a passport?
eirexe@reddit
Wait until you hear there's a plan in spain to have cameras on all highways to charge per km driven.
Time-Maintenance2165@reddit
Sure, that's how it starts. Then the speed gradually gets lowered until its only 1 mph over the limit.
SerialExperimentLean@reddit
What would they be able to get from this that they couldn't get from your phone or waze though, or even just random security cameras?
X-e-o@reddit
Yeah I believe in Europe there was also a significant tolerance (eg; 20km/h).
As far as the Palantir thing well...yeah. That's not much of a r/car thing but rather a r/raboringdystopia kind of issue though.
Yotsubato@reddit
Yes. It absolutely will
MembershipNo2077@reddit
They'll also probably save you car information to the creepy flock servers or whatever that tracks Americans for totally benevolent purposes.
MikeExMachina@reddit
Yeah this is already a thing. These system can tag vehicles that are frequently photographed with invalid plates and provide alternate identifying information e.g. stickers, damage, accessory’s, etc.
dantose@reddit
As someone who's lived in places that use average speed cameras, there's actually a really clever way to use waze to outsmart such cameras:
Step 1: Run waze, so it can warn you when an average speed camera is coming.
Step 2: Go the speed limit for that stretch.
Step 3: There is no step 3.
When I suggest not-speeding as a method of avoiding speeding tickets, I usually catch down votes, so go ahead and take my internet points now.
eirexe@reddit
You're making the assumption what authorities call speeding is actually speeding, and they don't just set too low of a speed limit to increase revenue.
dantose@reddit
Are you saying that you think the cameras can be trivially altered to read the wrong average speed, or that there's some sort of secret real speed limit other than the posted one?
For altering the cameras, there's 2 photos and 2 time stamps. Altering that after the fact would be straight up falsifying evidence and is already illegal (qualified immunity shenanigans not withstanding). Altering the system to desync the timestamps at the two location would be trivial to challenge as well. Even assuming they were connected and synching to NTP (and almost certainly logging drift) any alterations would be far easier to detect than for plain old radar speed traps. Got a GPS running? Trip record with time atamps. Dash cam? Trip record, often with time stamps. Once such a scheme was uncovered by Approximate location based on cell tower ping could be used to support broadly throwing them out.
If you're saying there's some secret speed limit that posted speed limits are supposed to match, there's not. The posted speed limit is the speed limit, and for interstates is set by CDOT not police. If the cameras are set to ticket based on other-than-posted speed limit, that's even easier to detect as you'd be able to just take a photo of the speed limit sign and show that the detected average speed matches the actual posted speed limit
eirexe@reddit
My point is that very often the speed limits are set too low against recommendations from urban engineers. Humans have a speed they are "comfortable" driving on, and it's what they will default to, this speed depends on the state of the road, so most people will already slow down on more dangerous roads.
Of course for urban roads it's different as there's foot traffic, but for highways there's many that have way too low speeds which are not only dangerous (they create speed differentials) but very profitable for revenue.
dantose@reddit
I-25 is 65-75mph. They put the cameras in a construction zone that's normally 75, but is dropped to 65mph due to the construction. Since there's a 10mph buffer, you wouldn't be getting ticketed unless you're going over 75mpg. I'm very skeptical that any urban planner is suggesting over 75mph speed limits through a construction zone.
CO 119 is a 55mph road, but it's smaller, and has on grade crossings controlled by traffic lights. Again, I'm skeptical an urban planner is recommending 65mph+ on that road.
eirexe@reddit
Of course, i'm not talking about this particular case, i mean in general this seems to be the trend for most speed limits, they just keep getting lower and lower to an unreasonable degree even without foo ttraffic.
dantose@reddit
That's going to be an issue of setting speed limits generally, not any particular enforcement mechanism. Heck, average speed cameras will be gentler for this issue as an instantaneous speed cam can be placed right after a speed limit change to try and snipe people. This at least gives you some time to realize the speed limit changed.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
Time to go on Turo and rent a bunch of cars.
Or Hertz. Or Enterprise. You get the idea.
hawksdiesel@reddit
Waze kinda sucks now that Google has their grip on it. It's been getting more worse each day
jawknee530i@reddit
Good. I will continue thinking people against speed cameras are morons til the day I die. Just don't fucking speed it's not that hard. You're not important, you don't need to endanger others any extra because you think it's fun.
eirexe@reddit
In spain we've had this for ages.
My biggest gripe with them (outside the typical surveillance/revenue-focused fining concerns) is that if you enter the speed area, speed a bit, and then need to slow down to compensate you may have to keep a lower speed than the rest of traffic for a while, which then causes them to bunch up behind you and get annoyed.
Crewstage8387@reddit
Waze will just alert you that the camera is there. If they rewrite the program they can just say speed camera next 5 miles
eirexe@reddit
They already do this
iroll20s@reddit
Waze could also easily calculate your average speed in the area and display it for you. That way you could maximized the 10mph wiggle room.
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
I always worry that this kind of average speed enforcement will spread to EZ Pass style toll collection. They have your entry and exit points on toll roads down to the second, with driver photos at both points to go with it. They say it won’t be used for other purposes, but I’m not reassured.
VF43NYC@reddit
This is just another revenue collection method. Like most traffic enforcement.
I do not like how comfortable some people are with constant surveillance. The people collecting this information are more nefarious than the people speeding
eirexe@reddit
In my country (spain) our traffic director (who doesn't even have a driver's license) removed a unique feature we have where you can increase speed in +20 km/h over the limit to overtake on non-highway roads, as long as you never go above 120.
Then he decided to remove them so average speed cameras could be used on those roads too.
Spanish traffic engineers told him that it could be dangerous and increase fatalities due to increasing the length of overtakes significantly, he said that revenue was the focus.
Now over a year later fatalities have increased, according to studies from the university of zaragoza.
Astonishing shit
sinkrate@reddit
CDOT is only putting them in construction zones, way less nefarious than the flock cameras going up on every corner. You deserve a ticket if you're averaging 10+ over in a work zone
eirexe@reddit
In spain they are doing something similar, cameras on all highways to charge you for every km you drive.
BetterThanAFoon@reddit
When I lived in Japan they did exactly this. If you got on the expressway and exited at a time shorter interval that would indicate you were averaging above the speed limit you would get a ticket mail to you.
A lot of people loved raising on that expressway. So they would pull over and wait a few minutes before exiting when they were done.
machosalad06@reddit
This is already something they can do on the NJ Turnpike
crosscheck87@reddit
I used to do 90+ mph on my commute from the Springs to Denver and I’d still have to keep right from people passing me, not exactly shocking they’re trying to find ways to curtail that.
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
“Colorado DOT says most of the revenue collected goes back into funding the Speed Enforcement Program.”
sinkrate@reddit
So it makes roads safer without taxpayer money? That's a great deal
localtuned@reddit
"most" but not an exact percentage.
EdgarsRavens@reddit
Who wants to place bets? I'm thinking 51% Speed Enforcement Program and 49% Camera Operator.
Immynimmy@reddit
Ah a self sustaining economy. Wonder if they’re getting paid in Paddy‘s dollars.
DarkMatterM4@reddit
Keeping the money moving.
6158675309@reddit
So, the revenue split is >50% with the camera operator :-)
SonnySwanson@reddit
Have these been challenged in court like the red light cameras?
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Wait how the fuck did you challenge a red light camera in court and win
SonnySwanson@reddit
Most times they are completely unenforceable because the law requires an officer of the law to witness an infraction.
https://www.autoblog.com/news/judge-says-red-light-camera-tickets-may-be-unconstitutional
tagman375@reddit
Many places are getting around this by having an "officer" who's bare minimum certified to be called a law enforcement officer review the photos/videos and sign the ticket. Then you had an officer witness the infraction.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Damn that's crazy
Seawolf4@reddit
It needs to be outright outlawed. This is how you get a surveillance state.
halo364@reddit
Dude average speed cameras have been a thing for decades now lol
by_a_pyre_light@reddit
Not in America
ukemike1@reddit
Dude. We are DEEPLY into a surveillance state. A handful of speed cameras is just a drop in the bucket. The main application for AI will be to sort through all the surveillance data they are already collecting.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
I'm generally pretty lenient on articles for being blatantly American-biased because they're usually churned out for exactly that audience, and you can't blame them for only considering the largest English speaking country in the world.
But you'd really expect a high quality writing team like C&D are meant to have to be capable of asking a single person in another country what they look like on Waze. No, it can still detect them. So can a radar detector.
aquintana@reddit
Just stop speeding people. I drove three hours today in Texas and left the office at the same time as my colleague (we took different cars because neither of us was going back to the office afterwards). I arrived exactly one minute later than them while I leisurely drove the speed limit (in the right lane) the entire time, while they were speeding every chance they could. Speeding is pointless, dangerous, and stressful.
iampg@reddit
Average speed zones are common in Italy. Waze will still tell you about them, but so will the signs - they're not surreptitious at all. They're well known and they work because if your average speed for the zone (as long as 20km) is much higher than the speed limit you get a ticket by mail!
shamiltheghost@reddit
Tax on the less fortunate
lurked_4_a_bit@reddit
Great just what we need, let’s not make the roads safer by actually paving and maintaining them properly. Instead let’s just extort the public for minding their business and not hitting anything.
Cxrs14@reddit
If it's anything like Flock cameras(which it probably is) then plate or no plate, they'll still know who you are and who's driving either way.
hughcifer-106103@reddit
How does flock know who your are or who’s driving without plates? My understanding is their systems is functionally a plate reader system.
tardersos@reddit
It recognizes vehicles by more than plate alone; distinguishing features like stickers, damage, and modifications are all things they can use to identify a vehicle.
These cameras have facial recognition as well. Flock denies it now, but it used to be stated on their website.
SporeRanier@reddit
Guess it’s time to wear a mask while driving like those street racers in Japan do.
Cxrs14@reddit
It sadly won't matter. The cameras have the ability to recognize scratches on cars, a mask will do absolutely nothing to stop it from identifying a driver based on facial features not obscured by the mask. But don't worry, it's not overreach, it's safety /s
SporeRanier@reddit
Oh I’m not talking about Covid masks, I’m talking about full face Jason Voorhees style masks. At least that’s what I gathered from a Donut video i watched about it.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
To be honestly, you can see riders with mask in America, it isn't only case in Bosozoku.
Cxrs14@reddit
Huh, never thought about those. It might work, but I imagine height, build, hair, and ears would still be enough for modern recognition to be positive enough for it to work. These companies don't make money by not being able to track everyone and everything, so I imagine they've tested for that kind of thing and have other identifiers they use.
lemlurker@reddit
We've had average speed check cameras in the UK for yonks. Interestingly they're not popular with local authorities because they're a worse money-spinner than a snapshot camera because fewer people speed for a while average than an instandateous flash. They're also well signposted with lots of reminders and big yellow camera gantries. The requirement to be really booking it to trigger DND that ALL traffic slows consummately results in fewer speeding offences commited which means less fines. But certainly more consistent speeds. Being average you also lack the braking for camera effect from causing traffic and they usually flow pretty well.
Poodleape2@reddit
Cannot be out smarted? Can the be destroyed or have their screen covered?
mrcanoehead2@reddit
Portugal has these on some highways. They mostly use them on section before a city to ensure traffic slows to maintain safety.( From what I observed)
TheKobayashiMoron@reddit
Yeah I think it’s pretty obvious if you cover 100 miles in an hour, you were going at least 100 mph average. Can’t out-math math.
SirLoremIpsum@reddit
What if you did the Kessel Run in less than 22 parsecs eh...
S p a c e t I m e bending
TheKobayashiMoron@reddit
You’re barking up the wrong franchise
BRICH999@reddit
Depends on the math they use and accuracy of info. Say they round numbers to the closest minute and have two detection points 3 miles apart on a 60mph road. If you passed the first at 12:00:31 and the second at 12:03:29, and it rounded to 12:01 and 12:03, would think you averaged 90mph when you really did 60mph.
This would be dumb, but I wouldnt put it past government to do dumb.
jesusrambo@reddit
Obviously it would not work like this
It would also suck if it reached out a little stick and poked you in the eye as you drove past
nsfdrag@reddit
Lmao and now I'm getting looks by people wondering what I'm laughing at.
BRICH999@reddit
You all think it's far fetched, but a lot of traffic cameras were programmed to fine drivers making legal right turns on red after coming to a stop. They got that sorted but not before issuing thousands of tickets. Tech is only as good as the person programming it.
Pixelplanet5@reddit
and this is also a very fair way to control the speed of people as you can absolutely go a little over the speedlimit to overtake someone as long as you make sure to not be over the limit on average.
hawkeyes007@reddit
This is actually incredibly creepy and invasive. There is no reason to watch and record everyone in the general public
TheKobayashiMoron@reddit
I mean, they’re already doing that and have been for a long time. Even toll roads already have the technology to implement this. The times you pass through two sets of tolls is recorded. The distance between them is fixed.
8N-QTTRO@reddit
And if they're smart, they'll primarily track outliers compared to average speed so "normal" drivers don't get penalized for keeping up with the speed of traffic.
StrangeSmellz@reddit
what if i just pass one camera, wait 15mins and they do a landspeed record to the 2nd?
Ancient_Wisdom_Yall@reddit
Totally fine
diethyl2o@reddit
As long as you take frequent bathroom breaks… you can speed all you want. Brilliant!
cilantno@reddit
People do that in the UK per the other thread on this recent CO implementation.
luckystrike_bh@reddit
Whatever happened to confronting your accuser in court? Hard to interrogate a camera.
Vic_Vega_MrB@reddit
Get some "specially equipped" cheap throwaway drones And destroy these cameras.
_2ndclasscitizen_@reddit
Waze already notifies of average speed camera zones here in Australia (although it doesn't show your average speed which is annoying).
Drunken_Hamster@reddit
I'm not even 30, and I'm getting into my old man "Government needs to fuck off" phase at an alarmingly QUICK pace.
Evenfisher01@reddit
So you dont speed between the cameras which are in the same place every time
pinkbunnay@reddit
The actual reason: It's not even legal and you can throw away the ticket. CO's been pulling this shit for years.
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
Incorrect. SB23-200 made mailed tickets legally enforceable.
pinkbunnay@reddit
Long before that they were still doing this shit and violating your rights. Just because they pass a law to collect more money doesn't make it right. I hope someday this makes it higher than the district court and we get a ruling to enjoin these.
CallLivesMatter@reddit
They have this neat little thing in Ohio where they send you a speed camera ticket, you throw it away, they send you a few notices, you throw those away as well, then they give up. It’s a revenue model that is entirely voluntary and relies on people not knowing thy don’t have to pay.
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
The Colorado legislature pass a law in June 2023 that mailed camera tickets are legally enforceable.
CallLivesMatter@reddit
Ohio did one better. Many municipalities sold their rights to camera ticketing revenue to third party companies. Once the money incentive went away local PDs were not all that enthusiastic about fighting the courts to argue that the tickets were valid, so now some random companies own a bunch of uncollectible assets all throughout the state.
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
In PA, there’s a constantly recurring phishing text scam that indicates you owe the state for back tolls and need to click a link to pay. So, naturally a real letter that like would lend the appearance of a scam and end up immediately in the round file.
CallLivesMatter@reddit
Yeah I’ve gotten a few of those sort of scams as well. Also it turns out my Ohio business license needs to be renewed (I have neither a business nor a license for it).
SporeRanier@reddit
Speed cameras are the work of the devil
Th3WeirdingWay@reddit
You get what you vote for. The end
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
But can the cameras be outsmarted by a pellet gun or 22lr?
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
You’d have to hit them from their blind side, so I wouldn’t recommend it in a moving car in their frame of camera view.
iroll20s@reddit
You just have to be driving fast enough that it can't capture your plate. (or be smart and remove the front plate at least.)
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
Well of course, this would be something for a disgruntled local who knows the area to do.
eight47pm@reddit
Waze will warn you of their locations, we have them running from my town to our capital, they’re a complete pain but I see why they’re needed as that road is bad for speeders and a very busy route
popsicle_of_meat@reddit
So, in WA state, around my area, we have red light cameras. However, they are by an outside 3rd party and are apparently not a legally binding fine. They can't be enforced.
If these cameras are the same way, not enforced by the judicial system because they don't know who was actually driving, why even pay them at all? The whole point is it's the DRIVER running lights and speeding. And to catch the DRIVER you need verification of identity.
Look, I'm all for people breaking laws to be pulled over and ticketed. It's easy to not speed. But the person needs to be caught in the act. Not this plate-reading BS.
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
This is not the case in CO
TheDuckFarm@reddit
How do fine the car owner? Cars are owned by all kinds of entities like corporations and trusts. Lots of people don’t own the car they drive.
xNinjaN8x@reddit
Bring back flip up plates!
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
“Mr Bond, your car is ready.”
xNinjaN8x@reddit
Thank you Q
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
“Do try to bring it back in one piece.”
vaultdweller1223@reddit
Colorado will try anything to generate tax revenue besides raising property taxes. I paid 6k to registers a used car there. Joke of a state.
Gaveltime@reddit
The police state hates this one trick: A fake leaf glued to a magnet.
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
Just dip a real one in mud and slap it over a couple of plate letters, making sure to use a lead from a native species of tree, like say an Aspen.
GeoffreyDaGiraffe@reddit
Lots and lots of copper out there
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
Like a whole mountain of it.
Firstbaser@reddit
I bet a good laser could do something to the cameras
ssxhoell1@reddit
You would be correct
pablxo@reddit
Colorado more like COMMIERADO
KeepersDiary@reddit
Would be a shame if they all got damaged.
StandupJetskier@reddit
A bad idea from the UK here.....
Captain_Pink_Pants@reddit
The auto-tickets are so cheap, I don't really care. I got photo'd doing 52 in a 35 one night... It was $40, payable online. For $40, I don't mind ignoring it until one pops up on my daily route. 🤷
CTMechE@reddit
The NJ turnpike did this via EZ pass many years ago.
The best solution was to stop for gas/bathrooms at one of the rest stops.
simeddit@reddit
This is the same kind of draconian horseshit they do over in Australia
-hh@reddit
Let’s check back in ~6 months and see how many officers … including those in patrol cars (lights off) … actually end up paying tickets.
spooksmagee@reddit
I find it highly ironic the people complaining about a "surveillance state" with these cameras very likely typed that inane response from a handheld device that has already been proven to scrape your personal data for private companies.
Like guys, all of our data is already compromised unless you're a Luddite who lives in the woods.
High speeds are one of the top contributing factors to crashes that cause serious injury and deaths. At least these speed cameras will reduce harm. They really do slow people down and curb fatal crashes.
And if you're so concerned with privacy, laws can be changed, work with your local elected representatives to bake in privacy laws to these systems.
CortaCircuit@reddit
I can't believe how easily the public goes along with surveillance. It's sickening.
bebemaster@reddit
Seems like a business opportunity to set up convenience stores...
"Average Joe's" with the tag line "Stop now save later"
gnartung@reddit
Waze should implement an indicator that shows your current average speed since the previous camera.
BigBrainMonkey@reddit
You know this one trick, I just set cruise control at the speed limit?
Farking_Bastage@reddit
Things like this are test runs for rolling out similar systems on all stretches of highways, I think. I get enabling stuff like this in school/work zones, but it's a slippery slope to auto-ticket detectors on all highways.
This concerns me.
Scazitar@reddit
Fuck speed cameras.
hpshaft@reddit
Someone will figure out how to obscure plates or numbers to avoid this.
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
They already do just that to avoid electronic tolling and speed cameras.
TweeksTurbos@reddit
So its like the timing lines in PA slow down inbetween.
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
That kind of negates the hurry-up reason for speeding in the first place, LOL.
dropinbombz@reddit
Would flip up lisc plates work?
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
Even a smear of grease over a letter or two would work. A folded plate corner. A piece of tape making a zero look like an 8. A leaf taped over a letter. Or sadly, the sovereign citizen plates. I feel like I’ve seen all the obfuscation tricks in East Coast cities.
Kortok2012@reddit
So it’s pay to play? Sometimes I’m just running late, what’s the max fine
Viperlite@reddit (OP)
Violators face a $75 fine mailed to their registered address, with no points added to their license.
FrostyFire@reddit
“Vehicles without plates can avoid fines.” Alright, plate flipper it is.
hurdeehurr@reddit
That's cool.. Just stare at your speedometer or set your cruise control and not pay attention so you can go the speed limit. Some people's brains can't operate slow enough to match the rest of you and still pay attention.
FormulaJAZ@reddit
Traffic has gotten so bad in Denver that I'd be thrilled if I could simply go the speed limit on the highways.