Honda Passport Buyers Can't Get Enough Of One Particular Trim
Posted by user289734@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 103 comments
Posted by user289734@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 103 comments
UniqueThanks@reddit
They nailed the design. Looks so much better than the equivalent 4Runner (and drives better)
MagnetizedMetal@reddit
It drives better because it’s a unibody… and thus, it’s not equivalent at all in the rugged off-road space. This Honda is not in the same league as a 4Runner. Drivetrain, ground clearance, approach angles, tires. If anything, the Outback Wilderness would be its closest equivalent and competitor.
hertzsae@reddit
The Passport has more ground clearance and larger approach/departure angles than the base 4Runner.
MagnetizedMetal@reddit
lol no it doesn’t
hertzsae@reddit
Per toyota.com, the SR5 4Runner has 8.1 inches of clearance and Approach/departure angle (degrees) of 18/22
Per honda.com, the Passport has 8.3 inches of clearance and Approach/Departure Angles (deg.) of 23.0 / 27.1
Feel free to provide numbers from more reliable sources...
MagnetizedMetal@reddit
Well, I’ll be damn, I stand corrected the Passport has a whopping .2 “ over the base 4Runner, now take the wind faring off the 4Runner and it puts the approach angle of the passport to shame. It’s also body on frame and a true 4WD with low range. So, anyway what’s your point? Because even with 1/2 an inch less ground clearance and worse departure angle any serious off roader is till taking the SR5.
hertzsae@reddit
You posted some factually incorrect statements. I corrected them to which you replied with a really stupid laughing response denying my correction. I then posted more specific facts.
Now you post an incredibly defensive response about serious off-roaders as if I even mentioned them.
Also, the wind fairing is on the roof and won't help the approach angle. If you're going to off-road, you may want to remove the air dam instead.
But since you bring up serious off-roaders, no these vehicles are not equivalent to "serious off-roaders". But they are equivalent to most buyers. Which really seems to upset "serious off-roaders" who are likely afraid that people won't respect how much more capable their 4Runners are now that the Passport looks a bit more rugged.
MagnetizedMetal@reddit
So, what’s your point is what I’m trying to understand.
hertzsae@reddit
Mainly that the facts you used to prove your point were wrong.
MagnetizedMetal@reddit
So what did I get wrong ? That I should’ve specifically pointed out that it excludes the “Base” 4Runner when saying that this Passport is not the 4Runner equivalent? Are you serious? How pedantic can you possibly be… do you realize how disingenuous you’re being? My point stands. This passport is NOT the equivalent of a 4Runner, even the base…an embarrassing half an inch of better ground clearance and departure angle for 1 trim don’t help your case sorry.
hertzsae@reddit
They are equivalent to most buyers, because most buyers want something that looks rugged and can do slightly rugged things. They are equivalent for what most buyers use them for.
A minority of 4runner buyers know what body on frame means or pay attention to approach angles.
MagnetizedMetal@reddit
Well shit then why stop there… by your wonderful logic it’s the same as a Bronco, Defender, Jeep, fuck it a Humvee! 🤣🤣
Psyclist80@reddit
So many fooled by the look. Good for 95% of folks uses though. Serious offroaders know better, but then buy something that is a compromise for on-road. So you have to ask yourself (and be honest) what is your use case for your vehicle? and are you willing to make compromises to have capability?
gumol@reddit
it's my daily driver, but with occasional skiing trip, forest fire roads, and towing. But yeah, it has to take me to work and costco.
73629265@reddit
The 4Runner is a serious thing. The Trailsport is like putting lipstick on a pig.
hertzsae@reddit
The 4Runner is "a serious thing" for something that most 4Runner buyers never do. The Passport has more capabilities than most 4Runner buyers need.
I swear some people would drive an A1 Abrams to pickup coffee if they could afford it and scoff at any vehicle without treads as not being serious.
Mjolnir12@reddit
People constantly claim this but never have any actual statistics to support it, just anecdotes. Where I live there are tons of 4runners (mostly old ones though) and people definitely take them off road. I take my land cruiser off road, including on trails I wouldn’t be comfortable taking a passport on.
hertzsae@reddit
And your counter claim is just an anecdote. Come to any major US city and you'll see plenty of 4runners that won't do anything a Corolla isn't capable of until they are sold to their third owner.
Being comfortable is also subjective. I comfortably take my CX-5 (less capable than the Passport) on roads that many 4runner owners would be uncomfortable driving down. My buddy with a TRD Pro in a mountain town has never taken it anywhere that my vehicle couldn't. The 4Runner can go down trails that the Passport and CX-5 can't, but most of those trails are generally only driven by people whose main hobby is driving on trails that most vehicles can't go down.
It's all subjective and that's my point. I'm replying to someone who claimed "The 4Runner is a serious thing" as if that statement has any real value.
Mjolnir12@reddit
But it is a more serious offroader. That is a factual statement. That’s good for you that you go on trails with your cx-5 (I guess), but that doesn’t have anything to do with my statement that I take my land cruiser on trails that would definitely at the very least scrape the body of a passport.
hertzsae@reddit
The 4Runner can be a more capable offroader, That was never in question and I've never said otherwise.
You may not be giving enough credit to the Passport though. The base 4Runner has less ground clearance and worse approach/departure angles than the Passport. The current Land Cruiser has better angles, but the same ground clearance as the Passport in all trims.
My point is what people are "comfortable" with is completely subjective. In your latest reply, you actually put a quantifiable statement about scraping the ground. I know people uncomfortable driving on gravel, so I have no idea where you're coming from when you say comfortable.
And the original statement I replied to about the 4Runner being a "serious thing" is just a meaningless and stupid statement which is the main point I wanted to rebut.
Mjolnir12@reddit
By “comfortable” i mean a high chance of damaging bodywork or getting stuck. I am well aware of the differences between the passport and land cruiser; I have basically watched every review on the internet for both and test driven both.
While on paper the base 4runner may have a lower approach angle, that is entirely because of the front air dam that sticks down very far (look at the pictures of the sr5). This is easily removable. The passport on the other hand had the actual chin down low so you can’t do anything about the approach angle. Go watch the DrivingSportsTV comparison between the passport and land cruiser; the front of the passport scrapes all over the place even though the performance of the AWD system is quite good. Likewise the ground clearance numbers may look similar, but they aren’t in practice. The passport bottom is all basically flat, and while it does have some light skid plates a lot of non protected stuff hangs low. It also doesn’t have a solid rear axle like the toyotas, which gives way more effective clearance because of the dramatically better articulation (the articulation is much better in the front as well even without the disconnecting sway bar). My land cruiser may have “8.7 inches” of ground clearance, but the only part that is actually that low is part of the front skid plate which is a solid steel plate mounted to the frame. The rear diff has over 9 inches of clearance and much of the actual frame is 10-12 inches from the ground. The only part I have scraped offroad so far is that skid plate.
hertzsae@reddit
And none of what you said makes the 4Runner "serious" and Passport non-serious. Saying something is "serious" is meaningless. Like I said, the 4Runner can be more capable, as can the Land Cruiser.
Mjolnir12@reddit
Everything I said makes it a more serious offroader. I am viewing “more serious offroader” and “more capable offroader” as synonymous.
hertzsae@reddit
You qualified serious with "offroader". The person I originally replied to did not.
It's just silly and pointless to make such unqualified statements.
73629265@reddit
If we evaluating the vehicles based on what most buyers do with their car, then that's a different conversation.
They were so near here, genuinely, but in the typical conservative Honda way of thinking, they just refuse to embrace the actual things that a proper off-road nameplate should be known for. Trailsport is not a serious thing.
hertzsae@reddit
Is there a better way to evaluate a vehicle than what most buyers do with their car?
They aren't trying to sell to off-roaders who want to rock crawl. They are trying to sell to people like me who want to get to wherever I want to ski in a blizzard and mountain bike trailheads down rutted out paths.
And who sets the arbitrary cutoff for "serious"? Should we argue that the 4Runner isn't serious until they get rid of those wheels and put some proper tracks on it?
Ok_Field_5701@reddit
Fuck yeah that sounds sick
Competitive-Reach287@reddit
"equivalent". LOL. They are completely different vehicles. One is a crossover, the other truck-based.
UniqueThanks@reddit
Yes but that doesn’t mean they aren’t competitors
throw_me_away3478@reddit
Honda doesnt have a 4runner competitor
GermanCommentGamer@reddit
The average buyer doesn't even know the difference between BoF and unibody designs. The Passport and 4Runner compete in terms of size and pricing which is what most people look at.
Mjolnir12@reddit
The difference isn’t so much the BOF vs unibody design, but the fact that the 4runner has better clearance and angles than the passport and has true 4wd with 4lo and optional locking rear diff. The honda drivetrain is very capable but runs into clearance issues offroad very quickly because the approach angle is garbage.
clownpirate@reddit
You’re still missing the point. Nearly everything you said is just mumbojumbo to many buyers. They look at the 4Runner, decide it’s big enough to serve as a family hauler while looking significantly cooler than the mallrunner Highlander, and that’s it. End of story.
Former Toyota salesman said he’s seen many couples come in where the wife has the Highlander in mind but the husband tries to convince her the 4Runner is what they should get.
Mjolnir12@reddit
That’s just more anecdotes. I’m sure plenty of people don’t ever take them off road, but people also definitely do. The whole reason I bought a land cruiser instead of something like a passport is so I can take it on rougher trails (like high clearance 4wd only trails in a lot of national parks), and I have done so. Everyone is claiming no one takes these off road when I literally do… I may be in the minority, but it doesn’t mean these features are irrelevant to me because I have literally used them myself multiple times.
clownpirate@reddit
I’m sure they do. The point still remains - significant numbers don’t. This isn’t just limited to the 4Runner, but other BoF offroady SUVs. Or for that matter, sports cars that will never see a track day until they get to their third owner.
GermanCommentGamer@reddit
I agree. But the average buyer does not care
hertzsae@reddit
The passport has more capabilities than most 4runner buyers ever use. People cross-shop them all the time. They are competitors whether the "real trucks are built in frames" crowd agrees or not.
Mjolnir12@reddit
The 4runner is way more capable offroad, the honda is better on road. That is the truth of it. Whether people need the features of one more than the other comes down to their specific use case.
andrewjaekim@reddit
Honda lacks a BOF competitor to the 4Runner.
The closest thing would probably be a Highlander
hertzsae@reddit
Most shoppers don't care about BOF. They absolutely compete for buyers.
andrewjaekim@reddit
If the bar for being a competitor is just cross shopping then you get wacky comparisons like a 3 series touring and an F150.
Signal_Ball4634@reddit
I kinda see it as the Passport is a commuter that is decent off-road. And the 4Runner is the opposite.
UniqueThanks@reddit
Yes, we need all the off road stuff to go to Trader Joe’s and Target
Mjolnir12@reddit
I know it is hard for people on reddit to conceptualize, but some people actually do drive these vehicles offroad regularly. Not everyone lives in a city.
Signal_Ball4634@reddit
Need something with ground clearance to hop those curbs bossman
UniqueThanks@reddit
Damn those speed humps!
peakdecline@reddit
Words are funny. I don't like calling these two "equivalent" even though I do know there's plenty of cross shopping going on.
I think the Passport looks great. No doubt it drives better with its fully independent suspension. No doubt its more space efficient with its unibody construction.
But I'd never consider one myself because well a 4Runner is BOF, has a solid rear axle, a transfer case, a locking rear differential, an available front sway bar disconnect. None of which the Passport will ever have.
So, sure. Plenty will cross shop. But they're definitely not "equivalent."
kb3_fk8@reddit
Idk I’m a Honda fanboy and for the price the trailsport (all trailsport trims) are so cheap looking on the inside. For example to get a leather surface you have to get those seats with no other option and those seats are hideous.
For just a few grand more you can have a MDX to not go off-roading in at the mall. If you want a real off roading machine the bronco exists and it’s better. For more money you can get a 4Runner that even nicer imo. If you wanted to go cheaper the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee are options.
I’m tired of Honda skirting the line recently. They finally fixed the civic and its trims. Then they introduce the trailsport. So idiotic.
andygchicago@reddit
The passport probably has the most practical, economic interior I’ve sat in over the past 10 years.
xt1nct@reddit
Same as the pilot. I actually bought a Passport but exchanged for the pilot.
peakdecline@reddit
> Honda breaks Passport sales record, producing their most mass market appealing product in ages
>> Mr. Reddit: This is so idoitic
kb3_fk8@reddit
Not Mr Reddit. But if you want a leatherette surface you have to get the seats in that color and stitching. You can’t really believe that’s not a turn it. It was for my wife even when though she loved the outside. She also has a TLX Type S and wanted nicer an interior for a SUV. For its price, the only attractive thing is its exterior styling.
And yes it’s idiotic to make a car with only one seat option. I say this as a type r owner.
Madison2Play@reddit
"80 percent were for the TrailSport trim"
People want to LOOK tough.
They want to LOOK like they can do anything.
They want to LOOK like they are outdoorsy types.
They want to LOOK like active adventurous people.
While they drive to Starbucks.
It's all about the image.
Deep-Television-9756@reddit
What car do you drive? Asking for posterity.
Euler007@reddit
I rarely drive my car indoors.
SophistXIII@reddit
Really? You're missing out.
Euler007@reddit
Finally people at the mall will notice me!
mada447@reddit
Personally I always drive my car in my living room. If I'm feeling like it, maybe I'll drive it in the bedroom. But you do you.
Drum_Eatenton@reddit
It’s the smooth ride of a bigger sidewall that draws me to faux off-roaders
ASV731@reddit
So what? Those are the people with money to buy cars new, so the auto manufacturers are obviously going to cater to them.
mada447@reddit
looks at flair
You mean like yourself?
ASV731@reddit
Not that I have to justify my purchases to anyone, let alone some flair-less account, but I use my vehicles off-road plenty.
If I didn’t, I would’ve kept my Cayenne GTS and my Tuono.
TheCudder@reddit
Most cars are daily drivers, and I've always been about the look. I had no complaints when all of the brands started whoring out their performance and off-road brands with appearance package versions. I'm a sucker for a fast and aggressive looking car, but I have zero desire to go to a track or drive fast 😂
mada447@reddit
With how much power modern cars can put out compared to a few decades ago, every car could be a sports car. For commuting purposes, every car has enough power.
Ok_Field_5701@reddit
Honestly, the non-outdoor trims on most vehicles that are available look like shit. The Outback Wilderness for example looks WAY better than any other variant. I’d say it’s less about looking tough and more about not wanting to drive some bland piece of shit.
mada447@reddit
Yeah but the passport doesn't have as much visual differences between the trim levels besides the wheels. I still like the base passport imo
zachwagon_gaming@reddit
They tie features to the sportier trims in this car. You can’t get a sunroof without a Trailsport or Trailsport Elite.
gumol@reddit
what's wrong with getting coffee?
Mahaleck@reddit
Nothing wrong with getting coffee. A lot is wrong with Starbucks. You also don’t need an off-road car to do this, OP is implying that people get those adventure off-road looking cars and end up using them for regular car purposes such as driving to get coffee, and they never even see a dirt road in the car’s entire life.
Unsure if intentionally being obtuse.
gumol@reddit
how many sports cars never see a race track?
If we all made perfectly rational car decisions, our roads would be 90% Priuses.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
One thing I find interesting is how much criticism there is in car forums about other people who make car purchases that aren't 100% logical...as if that isn't every car enthusiast. There isn't a single "enthusiast" car that anyone needs -- they want them.
If someone wants a Jeep, why criticize them? Who cares if they only go to Starbucks. And since most of us can't afford multiple cars, they have to use the same vehicle to go to Starbucks that they use to go to work and that they use offroad, however much offroading they actually do.
And by the way -- no one has any idea which people actually offroad these things. I know one guy who offroads consistently but he is also fastidious about cleaning and maintaining his Jeep so if you see him in the Starbucks parking lot, he is probably one you would point to and think his vehicle has never seen dirt.
m3rple@reddit
They want to LOOK like they're getting coffee.
WheresTheSauce@reddit
This is cracking me up lmao
bikedork5000@reddit
Whereas I'm sure your choices are purely practical at every turn, with utterly zero influence of vanity or aspiration on any front.
dodakk@reddit
Aren't a lot of the more modern features only available in the trailsport trims?
UniqueThanks@reddit
Isn’t this like every Jeep and T4R customer?
Funkytadualexhaust@reddit
It does look better in general though
762_54r@reddit
Ok so what
texasyeehaw@reddit
People want a car that looks good. More breaking news at 11
BahnMe@reddit
I’m planning to add a GC Trailhawk to my driveway soon. I think it looks cool and once a month I go to a farther away range that’s on a dirt and gravel road with absolutely giant potholes that would beach my other cars. I’ve had to turn back and go home twice because the condition of the road was awful.
Mahpman@reddit
That’s like almost everyone with a jeep
Penguinho@reddit
(The trim is the TrailSport.)
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
Thank you. Clickbait headlines are bullshit
aprtur@reddit
"You won't believe what they chose!"
willpc14@reddit
That would be Motor1's entire MO.
YellowFogLights@reddit
(The only trim available in Canada)
jaypatel149@reddit
Thank you
dont_u_me@reddit
People who buy for the 90th to 95th percentile of their possible uses do not end up in a Passport Trailsport because 95%+ people probably don't so much as drive on smooth gravel in a given year. Unfortunately, many people buy for the 120th percentile of their uses ("I've never wanted to drive off pavement, but what if I decide to?").
I really like these cars, including the Passport and Pilot (LOVED my two J-powered Accords), but let's be honest:
When it comes to commodity cars, we have an excess problem.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Why is that unfortunate?
dont_u_me@reddit
How many people drive F-150s they can't park properly just because they might move a couch every three years? How many people do you know shuttling around in inefficient, lifted Wranglers that have never seen dirt? How many people do you know driving three-ton Tahoes just because they had a second kid? We see these people on the road constantly.
We can all be appreciative car enthusiasts while admitting that these situations arise from a "because I want it" reasoning that is a little silly and out of hand at this point. Hell, we're probably better able to understand it because we are enthusiasts.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
I don't understand how an enthusiast's "because I want it" is more legitimate than anyone else's.
gumol@reddit
enthusiast cars don't have an excess problem?
dont_u_me@reddit
Enthusiast cars exist for excess. They are for passion, not for practicality.
The Passport Trailsport is not that kind of product, so viewed in terms that are practical for its buyers, many could do with 'lesser' capabilities off pavement - Crown Signia or Highlander, non-Wilderness Outback, or just non-Trailsport Passport (it's frustrating that so many options are exclusive to Trailsport trims).
Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy@reddit
And Toyota still hasn't brought back the FJ.
peakdecline@reddit
Toyota has the 4Runner and LC250 in this segment. They don't need a 3rd SUV that would fit into the same exact space.
The 4Runner is at any time moving 2-3x as many units as the Passport.
hehechibby@reddit
funny enough it was the Highlander but RIP to that
guess now it's RAV4 woodland?
Wierd657@reddit
Yes they have, just not here.
Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy@reddit
Weird way to agree with me.
Shobster@reddit
I like it. Especially since it’s got that glorious Honda V6 and that induction sound
JediLion17@reddit
4/7 of the the Passport trims have "Trailsport" in their name. If it's including all of them that's not a huge surprise.
Penguinho@reddit
It doesn't specify, which leads me to believe that you're right, it's lumping all the Trailsports together. It's also the midrange option, which is often the most popular trim level. My local Honda dealer has eight Passports on the lot. Seven of them are TrailSports of some description.
Hail_Zeus@reddit
Ridgeline in this design please
ace72ace@reddit
Been driving my Ridgeline since 2017, looking forward to 2028 and a Scout Terra.