🚨Pissin Hot Hornady Update‼️ (SAAMI specs are optional)🚨
Posted by snoopnogg88@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 54 comments
About a month ago I made a post describing how I recently bought a few cases of Hornady Frontier 55gr 5.56 and that those rounds blew out primers at an ABSURD rate. A few things have happened since then:
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Hornady had me send them one box of 20rds for test fire, after a few days I followed up and was assured that those 20 rounds are fine (so that must mean that I was imagining the 20 blown primers I experienced in my BCM)
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Just for funsies I had the rifle inspected by a gunsmith (yes, it is in headspace, no issues of any kind).
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Hornady explained that since the one box that I returned was fine they would not give me a shipping label (they insist that the blown primers & ejector gouges must be my fault, we'll ignore the seven years and +10k rounds of nearly flawless performance from this BCM). They did explain that they would process a return IF I foot the bill for sending this 60lbs of shit back to them across the country (so let's figure in an extra $200 on top of the $900 I already paid). FWIW, I continue to shoot the rifle with other ammo, flawless as always.
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I already had a dozen or so mags full of this ammo so I unloaded those & placed the loose rounds back into the box (not allowed!); they explained that loose rounds need to be packed back into ammo boxes? Every other company on the planned ships loose rounds packed into one box but I guess they're special. I'd be willing to go buy cheap 100rd reloading trays to ship them in if they weren't so shitty otherwise.
In conclusion, Hornady will sell you clearly out of spec ammunition & refuse to take care of you (by the way, I fired exactly 176 rounds in total with \~20 blown primers). They will assure you that blown primers are actually your fault, and that actually everyone else is wrong. Hornady can suck my dick from the back, I won't give them another dime and I will not longer stock their shit in my shop.
sHoRtBuSseR@reddit
If hornady is ass now, what do I buy for my 22-250?
I mean I know the answer is reload, but my rifle is absolutely dialed on their 4000 fps varmint loads.
I have enough brass to outlast the gun if I would just start reloading.
REMINGTONMODEL81912@reddit
Don’t stress too much about it man. Ive had one problem with hornady ammo and it was one round out of 100 it was missing the flash hole. They sent me 2 boxes free. If this was a common problem hornady would have a recall.
ReactionAble7945@reddit
Interesting situation.
You complained; they tested. Their test and your rifle disagree.
If they were getting other complaints, then they would have taken care of things. This is what companies do when they realize that lawyers will be calling them.
You could complain to the FTC Federal Trade Commission.
You could share the ammo with others. Of course collect the brass and videos. This will allow you to document the issue with multiple rifles. See if your local police department would like to try them. Companies love getting calls from the police.
You could get them to some like Kentucky Ballistics. I am sure Hornady would love to see a video about their ammo on you tube viewed by millions.
For me, I would sanity check with my multiple rifles. Video everything as if I was going to testify in front of congress.
youy23@reddit
I don’t think it’s a good idea to keep testing the rounds.
At best, you get blown primers and bolt face erosion that will ruin your bolt. At worst, your gun blows up in your face.
ReactionAble7945@reddit
You are not running a good test protocol if you are worried about your face when doing a test like this.
A few rounds shouldn't make a difference and if you are going to go after Hornady, then documenting the issues and maybe damaging things is the way to go.
youy23@reddit
This is probably one of the stupidest pieces of advice given out on the subreddit.
Your suggestion is to keep firing known overpressured rounds showing all the pressure signs short of case head separation. Who cares about test protocol if you kentucky ballistics yourself.
Getting multiple blown primers will cause bolt face erosion. Firing rounds this overpressured will break bolt lugs and will crack the bolt at the cam pin hole and wreck your gas rings.
This isn’t just the primer flattening a little, blown primers, ejector markings this deep, pierced primers, and the case head flattening are really serious signs of overpressure.
ReactionAble7945@reddit
You dont understand how to run the test protocol do you?
You do not hold the gun.
You have a bracket. You are in a safe location. You treat this like a professional. You dont do this with Grandad's one of a kind .... but you also dont run this in a gun that has other issues.
If the gun blows up GREAT. YOUR LAWYERS are going to make them pay for their arrogance.
If you shoot the rest of them and there are no issues, well, they were correct and maybe something was wrong with your gun (oil in the chamber will do this and once the gun is clean there is no evidence).
TacosNGuns@reddit
OP has fired 176 rounds and 20 blown primers hasn’t phased him. Sounds like he’s gtg.
deej363@reddit
If you have a 5.56 bolt gun that can handle the severe increase in pressure better than ARs that might be an option
Diligent-Parfait-236@reddit
The AR will fail safer than any bolt action.
snoopnogg88@reddit (OP)
I broadly agree but I don't feel good about shooting any more of this ammo, the rifle is trying to tell me something & it would be stupid to ignore it. FWIW I'd like keep shooting it but I don't feel confident that Hornady would take care of me if my rifle exploded. I have talked to a few friends, I will give them some because they understand the risks but I don't feel like endangering any of my rifles/silencers
garandruger@reddit
I had issues with the Frontier ammo since 2017 and people told me I was making shit up. Nearly 10 years later and it’s still an issue
mro2352@reddit
If their completed ammo is this bad how are the actual projectiles? Any complaints on them? I only ask as I’m wanting to get back into reloading and it’s been around 8-9 years since I bought components from them and their dies and components were up there with RCBS at the time.
2017hayden@reddit
They’re notoriously out of spec at this point.
mro2352@reddit
How are pistol? I’ve carried XTPs for years and need to reload another batch, I know about the thoughts on reloaded self defense ammo. I trust my own loads would be good if the components are good.
2017hayden@reddit
Im not sure about the pistol projectiles but I know the full cartridges aren’t considered particularly reliable anymore.
block50@reddit
Out of 12 different Hornady projectiles only one of them worked out better than 1.1MOA out of multiple guns for me. They kinda fucking suck
mpylican@reddit
Yea Hornady has burned the bridge for me too. Bought this press a year ago. Did not come with reloading tubes so I was hand priming. In February I decided to up my game and bought the tubes. Installed them they don’t line up. Watched videos thinking maybe I’m dumb or something. Emailed hornady they say “Unfortunately, this looks like a milling error on your press. We have to get the press back to fix this. I can have a prepaid shipping label emailed to you. If you can send the press we can correct this error. Let me know if you would like to do this and I will have the shipping label emailed to you.”
So I’m like ok. So in the mean time can you send me something to use? Nope. 4 weeks turn around for a milling issue they did. I called them as well sans they still won’t really help. So I get to be out for a month for their screw up. Thanks Hornady! Real good quality control and customer care….
mpylican@reddit
Side angle.
Kyrottimus@reddit
It's not just 5.56. Even rounds they submitted to SAAMI are not dimensionally conformant to their own blueprints. 22 ARC, 6mm ARC and 6 PRC are a few more egregious examples.
Anyone with access to a micrometer (or a really good set of calipers) can check for themselves in this document.
Notably the neck diameter, bullet bearing surface diameter and exposed bearing surface diameter length (which is supposed to fit in the existing freebore length).
Quw10@reddit
I know cartridge OAL had been short on multiple cartridges from them. I know the .50 bmg A-max I've had issues with the bolt getting stuck to the point I need a mallet and the case length was consistently below the minimum length.
snoopnogg88@reddit (OP)
It's only .50BMG, nothing too crazy right??
Quw10@reddit
Hey the 50k psi max chamber pressure is just a suggestion you know?
GingerVitisBread@reddit
Kentucky ballistics was actually just shooting off the shelf Hornady 🤣
FYIstillplaysleague@reddit
And 10 years ago hornady was great with QC and it's customers, but they have really gone downhill...
PiecesOfRing@reddit
I still find their rimfire stuff excellent! I don't have much experience with their centerfire stuff though, but this is terrible
FYIstillplaysleague@reddit
I cannot help but think some good employees are not longer employed because this kind of drastic QC shift usually indicates some major change inside the company. It's usually either new management or they get greedy and don't keep the best employees and prioritize quantity over quality now that the company has become so large.
Lampwick@reddit
Steve Hornady is 77 years old. I'm wondering if we're seeing the effects of his son Jason Hornady taking a more active role in the company. It's unfortunately a common thing with family businesses. First generation (Joyce Hornady) builds the business from nothing, second generation (Steve) was there to appreciate his father's early hard work and keeps the business on track, then the third generation (Jason) comes along and they've only ever known the business as this big ol' money faucet that let them buy fast cars to drunkenly drive at 151mph on surface streets, so they get to the driver's seat and just look for ways to get more money to come out of the faucet.
PiecesOfRing@reddit
Yeah it's definitely common practice to see both. Either a company gets bought out by a large conglomerate and they cut quality to get a faster return on their investment, or a company gains a reputation for being good, then cheapen out while selling off the initial hype. I'd say it's more the latter with Hornady. I wonder if their rimfire stuff is produced separately from their centerfire stuff though, because there's a huge discrepancy between the two. I've cycled hundreds, possibly thousands of 22WMR Vmax and Critical Defence Hornadys and they've all been flawless. Not a single malfunction ever, and they seem extremely well made compared to some other stuff. Meanwhile their centerfire stuff seems really bad recently!
NohFyoochur@reddit
Everything has gone downhill. Without strong consumer protections, why would any company ever help you? They have no obligation to do so. And you have no recourse since their competition doesn't give a fuck about consumers either.
Sea-Economics-9582@reddit
Especially on the frontier stuff. Wasn’t too long ago where they had these same issues. Probably 5-7yrs ago.
Lupine_Ranger@reddit
And people will continue to go "rUnS fInE iN mY gUn"
Like brother, that's not the point.
The consumer shouldn't have to worry about every trigger pull being a RNG of "will this ammo cause my gun fucking explode and possibly injure me", ESPECIALLY from a major company like Hornady.
I swear, I see 3-4 posts here every year of some poor fuck's AR that looks like it got attacked with a splitting maul, and every single time, it's either Hornady Frontier or WWB.
snoopnogg88@reddit (OP)
WWB is also dog shit lol that's true. These morons tried to put the blame on my trigger too (LaRue MBT 2), implying that the hammer spring was too light to keep the firing pin forward? Like are you actually censored or are you just trying to avoid doing the right thing?
Edited bc apparently I said I bad word
simplesteve311@reddit
I bought a 20 round box of this stuff last year to test velocities against my reloads and some winchester white box. The Frontier clocked at 3000 fps from my 11.5 and one of them blew a primer, and several of them peirced the primer. 150 fps faster than both my reloads and the white box. I sent them a message, and at the time i worked for a store that sells a lot of hornady ammo. They took the whole lot back and sent us new ammo to relpace it. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago when i was at the range with a friend, i found 3 frontier cases on the ground with no primers in them, and the bolt face stamped into the case head. I do not reccomend the frontier 5.56 for anyone.
snoopnogg88@reddit (OP)
Holy shit. You know the funny thing is the first guy I talked to immediately recognized the issue like "wow, that's very bad let me pass you off to someone else" and the next guy was like "nope. idk what you're talking about we don't load Frontier that hot."
Yeah no shit genius you're NOT SUPPOSED TO load it that hot but you obviously did
simplesteve311@reddit
I tried the 6 arc frontier load, and its actually quite good. Why their 5.56 is so insanely overpressure, i do not know. Even the 5.56 62gr frontier is too hot. They need a reality check.
snoopnogg88@reddit (OP)
Keep in mind that at no point did they examine the rifle, while being ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the rifle is the culprit. Again, factory BCM with untold thousands of flawless rounds through it, it continues to run everything I put in it EXCEPT THIS BATCH OF HORNADY FRONTIER. I would totally send them the rifle if they wanted to prove me wrong.
youy23@reddit
PMC Bronze never fails me. Them koreans know how to make better ammo than us muricans.
I don’t know whether to be proud of my home country of korea or disappointed at what American manufacturing has come to.
snoopnogg88@reddit (OP)
Dude that's the thing, cheaper ammo is literally better than this shit. My beloved Tula would never do this to me
NinjaBuddha13@reddit
It's astonishing to me that they still have serious dick riders. Its been known for ages that they wont take care of you if you have a problem with Critical Defense because it's uncrimped. Who is selling uncrimped defensive ammo??? Absolute garbage teir products and customer service.
SilenceDobad76@reddit
Free proof rounds!
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Hornady tanked post COVID. They just stopped giving a shit about QC.
sirbassist83@reddit
almost everything tanked post covid
snoopnogg88@reddit (OP)
A lot of companies have absolutely went to shit over the last few years & I'm usually pretty forgiving as long as they make it right but it's Hornady's stubborn refusal to acknowledge the problem that bothers me. Their theory is that 20 blown primers in 176 rounds fired is my fault, or that I'm imagining it. Fascinating.
Kokabim@reddit
I had a Frontier round get slamfired when loading during a match ... got DQd for an ND (rightfully). Primer seated too high
snoopnogg88@reddit (OP)
Yeah I bought this trash specifically for match purposes (multigun) & aside from the obvious pressure issues I can't use it anyway because the primer usually jams up the BCG to the point where I have to take the rifle apart to get it out. Twice I've had to tap the bolt forward with a brass punch to even get to the point where field stripping is even possible, that's really fun when there's a possibly live round still under the extractor
sumguyontheinternet1@reddit
I’d love to see the velocity on those. Talk about high pressure
BusyAtilla@reddit
I no longer swear by Hornady for exactly the reason of this post.
dadbodsupreme@reddit
It's a shame. I sort of grew up with Hornady. I didn't experience anything like op, but you've heard the term "critical setback" I'm sure. I switched to Underwood and really haven't been disappointed since.
BusyAtilla@reddit
Experience was not as bad as OP but very similar.
BA5ED@reddit
Have you tried the chronograph them?
WombatAnnihilator@reddit
Fuck Hornady
MrPBH@reddit
SAAMI "Suggestions" are what I call them.
The only rule of reloading is that you have to have fun.
FYIstillplaysleague@reddit
Holy shit thats really bad...