The New Iraqi made "Babylon" Carbine, recently seen in the hands of the Iraqi Federal police, interestingly, this Carbine is a licensed copy of the Chinese Norinco CQA Carbine which is in itself is a direct copy of the American M4 Carbine

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GunsAndWrenches2@reddit

Norinco is issuing licenses for a design they stole...

Yeah, that checks out.

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battlelord42@reddit

20 years there and now they send a check to China every month for a US rifle. Crazy timeline we are in.

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mrm00r3@reddit

I mean I can see where they’re coming from. China has killed way fewer Iraqi civilians than the US.

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TwTwGoGo@reddit

Says who? I live in Iraq… Fall of Saddam was the greatest thing that happened…

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CrabAppleBapple@reddit

Fall of Saddam was the greatest thing that happened…

Do you think a million Iraqi civilians (higher estimates) needed to die to do that?

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TwTwGoGo@reddit

I live there buddy, born there, where do you guys come up with this one million? I always come across this number when talking about the Iraq war.

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CrabAppleBapple@reddit

I meant half a million, you living there doesn't magically qualify you to know how many people died.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1618872/

I'm sure killing half a million civilians was worth getting rid of one guy then letting ISIS rampage for a few years.

There were better ways of getting rid of Saddam.

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I saw the war and the secterian one after… also I mean how do they count the number of the dead? They sample and estimate? They got names of people who died? How do they know they were civilians? Were they carpet bombing Baghdad and Mosul or Basrah?

It wasn’t to get rid of one guy… Are you familiar with the Baathist regime? The Iraqi stasi? The civil oppression? The media control? The control of the means of production in Iraq? The guy’s bloodthirsty sons?

I always wonder how people living great lives compared to us who struggle for water, electricity, gasoline and liquified propane gas inevitably end up defending Saddam while thinking they care about us civilians when they were silent when genocide and war was just another day in the cradle of civilization. How does that happen?

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CrabAppleBapple@reddit

saw the war and the secterian one after… also I mean how do they count the number of the dead? They sample and estimate? They got names of people who died? How do they know they were civilians

Read the paper.

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mrm00r3@reddit

Read my comment again and get back to me on whether I need to answer your question.

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TwTwGoGo@reddit

You imply the US has killed civilians therefore Iraqis hate US. The cause of US hate is Iranian Twelver Shia Islam takeover of Iraq, Babil industries is run by Iranian loyalists with state subsidies. They have established the factory to arm Hezboallah and Popular Mobilization Forces under the guise of Iraqi Army.

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mrm00r3@reddit

I wasn’t implying that, I’ve known several people who had the opportunity to ask Iraqi’s why they were shooting at Americans and, to a man, civilian deaths were always a part of the conversation. I’m sure the sectarian stuff is also true, but it’s not credible to suggest the average Iraqi is fine with the civilian deaths but draws the line at state-run small arms manufacturing going to outfit a paramilitary org. That would be like me being fine with school shootings but thinking those dickheads over at Daniel Defense were God’s plague on mankind because they were Presbyterian.

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TwTwGoGo@reddit

The civilian death narrative is being overblown, the majority of Iraq under Saddam “The Destroyer of Iraq” were already being killed and forced into wars, genocide, poverty and state debt. The average Iraqi is taken over by both ends of the extreme, conspiracy driven. They don’t know what’s going on in the world. The country is run by Iran politically and religiously. They do what Iran tells them to do and what to believe. But back to the real issue, PRICE. It’s just cheap to buy stuff from China because the state is being robbed into bankruptcy.

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Nerdenator@reddit

If they were counting who killed fewer civilians they wouldn’t be paying for rifles they themselves manufactured.

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JonRonstein@reddit

“20 years there terrorizing and destroying their country and now they don’t want to pay us?” ☝️🤓

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gggg_4_l@reddit

I have a weird respect for Norinco. They just don't care

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xqk13@reddit

“Fuck you”

Makes a 7.62x25 P226

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pookiegonzalez@reddit

how is this “stolen” but every other European country making ARs gets a pass?

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julien_LeBleu@reddit

Because european companies obtained the right to make them from the original licence holder.

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pookiegonzalez@reddit

“but muh license”

does this sub work for armalite? who fucking cares

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JonRonstein@reddit

I’m with you big dog.

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Fluffy-Map-5998@reddit

because the european countries purchases a license or made changes to the design, Norinco literally copied the M-4 1 to 1

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tula23@reddit

The patents expired decades ago

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GunsAndWrenches2@reddit

Brother, they started working on copying the A1 before the dust had settled in Vietnam. They were in full production and making sales by 1983.

But, to your own point, the M4 was designed in the early 90's.

So, Norinco is issuing licenses to manufacture a 30+ year old design that they stole, isn't that even more ironic?

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tula23@reddit

They still didn’t steal anything, copied it 100% though. The patents for the AR-15 expired in the late 70s. So by the time Norinco was making them the AR platform was fair game for anyone to make ARs. Obviously the Chinese are really bad with intellectual property but they didn’t steal this one.

They would have put a huge amount of time and effort into making a technical data package with correct dimensions and tolerances for their copy. Which is why they’ve sold it to the Iraqis.

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