First plate carrier and plates

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mikespikepookie@reddit

Wore plates for years overseas and the single biggest mistake I see guys make is going straight for the heavy Level IV standalone ceramics because they want "max protection." Cool, now you've got 18 lbs on your chest and back before you even add mags, IFAK, water, whatever else you're running. After about 45 minutes you're gassed and your shoulders are screaming. If you're not expecting rifle rated AP threats (and let's be real, for most scenarios you aren't), a good set of Level III+ multi curve plates will save you several pounds and actually conform to your body so you can move. Multi curve matters way more than people think. Flat plates in a carrier is miserable, ask anyone who got issued them circa 2005. For the carrier itself, make sure you get something with a solid cummerbund and not just side straps. Makes a world of difference on longer wears. Size it to your actual torso, not your shirt size.

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

I don’t think I’d go with level 4 but what worries me is I’m out in the Midwest where there are literally hundreds of thousands of hunting rifles out here. Do I think I’d be going up against hunters in a bad scenario? No probably not more like ARs. And really what scenario is that? I’m not sure so that’s why there’s a hesitation to buying too notch stuff when in reality I could be buying more food, water storage/ purification, power etc.

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monty845@reddit

Level 3 plates will stop most hunting rounds. The new RF2 standard for civilian body armor includes M855.

You don't need to go to the Level 4/RF3/ESAPI until you are dealing with real AP ammo, or extreme threats like .50 BMG.

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Historical_Course587@reddit

This is exactly why the good approach is to avoid conflict. All it takes is one large-caliber rifle and you're toast. All it takes is one accurate shooter to hit your head, or your shoulder, or you from the side, and all that work you did with plates was for nothing. And you're definitely not better off loading heavy and needing more breaks, or being loaded heavy and making more noise as you move, or being loaded heavy and hurting your ankle - that's almost guaranteed death in the kinds of scenarios you're vaguely imagining.

The big questions you should answer for yourself before buying anything are:

Why do you see yourself moving on foot at all?
Are you assuming your bug-in plan failed?
Are you making a single on-foot trip to a bug-out location because roads are blocked or vehicles have failed?
Or are you just gearing up to be a wandering war machine because you don't actually have a plan?

Walk through those, and I'd bet you'll decide to put more effort into your bug-in plan, your bug-out strategy, and your bike + bike trailer budget.

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

My idea was for home defense you can avoid conflict all you want until it comes to your neighborhood. I’m not to worried about weight for that reason I’m going to be in my house when it happens and if I have to drive then things got really bad but that’s my plan

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Historical_Course587@reddit

IMHO, if you're going to be in your house then reinforce your house in the places where you intend to make a stand. Use a steel door at the end of your choke-point hallway, install barriers in walls beneath windows. That way it can be heavy because it doesn't need to move, while offering complete coverage of your body when you aren't trying to look/shoot outside. And it leaves you light enough to move nimbly when necessary.

It's always easier to harden a known, held area than it is to plan for mobile combat in unknown territory. Not trying to pick anyone, but when people lean towards mobile combat vs. securing their castle it's a sign that they are afraid of any fight and are hoping looking intimidating will prevent conflict. If you can't hold a reinforced home in defense, you won't survive a hasty retreat no matter the gear you have available, and you should just plan to bug-out from the get-go.

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Financial_Resort6631@reddit

Plates carriers are not fun to wear. I would be concerned with the weight of steal plates.

Spalling is a thing.

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Imperialist_hotdog@reddit

If you want your armor to turn a potentially survivable wound into a kill shot then go with steel. If you want to be weighed down to the point you can’t move then go with steel. Ceramics will be fine sitting in your car even for years. As long as they aren’t in direct sunlight they won’t breakdown any faster than their normal 5-10 year shelf life.

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WardenWolf@reddit

Spall can be mitigated with steel both, with coatings and replaceable external spall blockers which are on the market from various manufacturers. It's not ideal, but III+ can 100% be made to work if it's what you have. And it's not going to smack you nearly as bad (assuming a good trauma pad) because of reduced blackface deformation. In today's market, you should never buy steel, but it's not nearly the death sentence people make it out to be. Also, RMA's overpriced obsolete Level IV plates are actually slightly heavier than steel, just thought I'd throw that amusing bit in.

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Imperialist_hotdog@reddit

This is kind of write up I wanted add to what I said but didn’t because it usually falls on deaf ears. Most people either aren’t paient enough or interested enough to listen the nuance.

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WardenWolf@reddit

I just think it's funny that RMA's garbage is actually heavier than steel.

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CassioFiasco@reddit

In the case of steel plates? One reason is inefficient kinetic energy absorption. Also, internal bleeding injuries to the wearer as well as laceration from projectile spalling.

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Persianguy2819@reddit

No sarcasm, explain the potentially vs kill shot component if you'd be so inclined

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Imperialist_hotdog@reddit

Steel stops the round causing chunks of it to fly off in whatever direction. Due to natural curve of the plate there’s a good chance of a chunk of it deflecting up into your jaw and straight through your brain. Now this is dependent on your stance and angle the round came in at but it is a possibility. On the other hand ceramics don’t stop bullets. They catch them. Meaning the bullet doesn’t fragment. A good way to visualize this is to look at high speed footage of people shooting steel targets.

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Monarc73@reddit

Armed conflict is a very low probability event. Your money is best spent elsewhere.

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

Yeah that’s very true and I know there are other areas in my prep that I could shore up before that

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BallsOutKrunked@reddit

Seconding ceramic. Steel plates can get anti-spall coating, basically rhino lining which should absorb the fragments.

As a guy who got shot at in the military the "OMG THE SPALL WILL KILL YOU BRO" stuff is kind of true but also if you're around hard targets like rocks or steel structures that stuff gets shot plenty and you'll have bits and pieces of metal and rock flying at you regardless. If you have steel plates they're hopefully coated and sitting behind >= 500 denier cordura.

The main reason I'd opt for ceramic is that it's not that much more pricey, it's much lighter, and if you don't treat it like shit it's going to last a long time.

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

Yeah I guess I got caught up in the ceramic is fragile and “expires” type thing and if I’m not planning to use them for something real why would I let them sit and rot.

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JRHLowdown3@reddit

It's not 2009 so don't bother with steel plates. You won't wear them, you'll play the "WHEN the time comes I'll wear them" BS, which does not lead to training in them.

Plenty of quality lighter weight choices out there. Try to stick with known brands to avoid chinese knockoffs. If it's too cheap, that's called a clue...

Hesco plates are a good option that aren't crazy expensive. We run M210s and L211s in all our carriers.

As far as plate carriers- that's another you get what you pay for type of thing. I would look for a good used Crye JPC, the Agilite K-19 or K Zero is mega comfortable. The wife's PC that she wears when we do The Murph Challenge is the K Zero and I usually wear my JPC 1.0 although her PC is a helluva lot more comfortable IMO.

Both have seen years or usage- I don't mean just sitting in closets...- and have held up well.

Big market for used gear that isn't very 'used'. Usually folks that just buy gear, don't use it but once or twice (probably taking pics to play on the net) and then something "new" or "cooler" comes out and dude sells his gear to buy the newer tacticool'er piece of gear. Hence how to get quality gear cheap...

The absolute minimum in brands you want to go is Condor, avoid any of the lower tiers.

Remember, especially if your not actually using gear regularly- you may find out it's a POS and breaks easily till you TRULY NEED IT (if your not doing anything serious with it now). And guess what, if it breaks quickly when TSHTF, you won't be likely to be able to get a new one.

Therefore, don't skimp...

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

Thanks for the brand names- that’s the big thing I don’t want some piece of shit that breaks the first time I put it on but then there’s also the factor of do I need to spend a ton when a scenario is more than likely not going to be needed.. plus there’s just so much out there it’s hard to weed through what’s good or what’s just jumping on the fear mongering bandwagon

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JRHLowdown3@reddit

No problem. Was thinking we have also had some carriers from TAG that have held up well over the years, can't remember the exact name of the carrier. They were around $100.'ish new back around 2010'ish?? Probably still have a couple of them tucked away in Bunker 17 somewhere LMAO..

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

I won't tell you which to buy but I will tell you this is one item you don't want to try and save some money on.

This is a "Buy Once, Cry Once" situation.

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

Also a good point.

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Dinosaur_III@reddit

I had good luck on tacswap and GAFS. I see some people here don't like them, but I did get RMA plates as the price was right. Got Crye SPC carrier, axl equinox cummerbund/spc tubes adapter, crye side plate carrier pouch, soft IIIA side plates (stealth armor), coyote tactical shoulder pads. Then mag and comms pouches for whatever you choose. I also have a small pack on the back that allows for a hydration bladder. My setup is a bit heavy, I would maybe lose a few things in a real situation and I havn't trained too much with it yet. These things are very user specific so build it for your best situation. Hope this helps!

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

Thanks it does! As I mentioned it’s more for home defense if things got weird close to home not me out fighting the good fight running around the woods so weight might not necessarily be an issue rather than hunkering down in a bad scenario

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Tinfoil_cobbler@reddit

Spend your money on something more useful

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

Yeah there’s that idea as well and there’s definitely more I can do in other areas but seems like it might be a nice to have on hand

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Torch99999@reddit

I've got some old plates, and honest I don't think they're worth it. Maybe if you have everything else, maybe.

The big problem I found is the weight. Even at 7 lbs per plate (which means expensive plates), plus the carrier, you're looking at 20 lbs of armor. Add a helmet your pushing 25 lbs, backpack with water and snacks gets you to 35 lbs. Add a rifle, nods, boots, iIFAK, pistol, and suddenly you're over 50 lbs of gear.

Ever run a mile with a 50 lb backpack? Or even do a 100 yard sprint wearing that kind of weight?

I played airsoft once with real plates, and I found with the extra weight I was getting shot a lot more, not just in the armored areas but in my arms and legs too. If you're the US Army and you have rescue aircraft ready to haul your injured to team of trained trauma surgeons, the weight penalty to protect your vital organs can make sense...but if things get bad enough regular civilians are getting into gunfights, that medical support isn't there. All armor will do is slow you down enough to bleed out later instead of being DRT.

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TiredMan123@reddit (OP)

I’ve done those things thankfully and know what it’s like to have the weight. For me it was more of a bug in added item. I don’t think I’ll be LARPing in the next civil war but it was one of those extra things if weird stuff starts happening here in the homeland. Maybe keep it in my car or just in my prep space. Definitely don’t plan to bug out so just more defense but all of that are good points. Even shot in the thigh or arm could just end me if there’s not decent medical around

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Seth0351USMC@reddit

I really like the AR500 plates. They primarily make steel plates instead of ceramic so they will hold up to multiple hits much better and are thinner but also heavier. They have a video on youtube of a 50 round belt from a m240 machine gun getting dumped into a plate. All 50 hits were stopped by the plate. I have a couple tactical vests and a couple concealed plate carriers. Still a little bulky compared to soft armor but with proper clothing they can be easily concealed and offer much better protection.

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GunnCelt@reddit

Check out r/tacticalgear and do a search. This is a common topic there. You can pick up ceramic plates at less than $150 each at Chase tactical and an inexpensive PC like Krydex for less than $100. All in for less than $400. Do your due diligence

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xamott@reddit

Amazing thanks!

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WardenWolf@reddit

I do not recommend them very much. They are extreme elitists who will insist you need to spend a lot more money. I left that sub for a reason; they will shit on your perfectly sound rig if it doesn't fit their Gucci image.

Also, do NOT buy RMA brand plates. Obsolete garbage that are actually heavier than steel plates of an equivalent size.

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TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit

RMA is actually a fantastic starting point IMO- I'm wondering if you mixed up manufacturers, because their 1155 plate is 2lb lighter than the comparable AR500 steel plate.

Don't get me wrong- they're heavier than some other, pricier plates. But they're a great place to start.

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this_guy_aves@reddit

Just tossing this in regarding steel and spalling, it's not spalling of steel that needs to be mitigated, it's fragmentation. Spalling is chunks of armor chipping off the inside due to shock in the outside. Fragmentation is the bullet breaking up on the outside and splintering outwards. Fragmentation is the danger with steel plates. That said, fragmentation can be mitigated by coatings and sleeves and even quality duct tape, plus it's inside of several layers of nylon/cordura. It's not as scary as all the elite ceramic level 4 bros claim, just know that $100/plate isn't where you stop with steel, you need a liner too. It is heavier, but if the goal is defense then it's still better than nothing and it doesn't start chipping apart after a hit.

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This-Rutabaga6382@reddit

As I’ve said in another comment Shellback Tactical is a durable brand at least the stuff I’ve messed with, make sure you check the fit and look into little irritations. A good budget option I don’t see people mentioning is LBX which is London bridge but like a budget branch that’s made over seas but same materials as far as I’m concerned, they run sales all the time in their site and you can get a plate carrier set up and usually get it bundled with like mag pouches or slings or something for under $100-$120. It’s not necessarily the best most advanced stuff but it’s a great start.

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Due-Independence6692@reddit

RMA or Hesco for the plates. Carriers are very user specific, I’d recommend looking into Hailey strategic for low profile “grey man” kit, shellback tactical if you want battle gear. These are just good places to start, good luck!

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This-Rutabaga6382@reddit

I second shellback , I have a tac banshee 2.0 and it’s a really well made plate carrier but the shoulder buckles are poorly placed and needed a modification to make them low profile or move them a little bit because they sit right where the rifle butt goes so food for thought for anyone in the future.

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Historical_Stock_402@reddit

Won’t get into type selection thing, but what ever you get you have to wear and practice with. Ceramic tends to have less coverage and is lighter. Is easier to adapt to. Steel is bulky and heavier. Must practice to become proficient with them on. Some rig setups mess with your shoulder placement on long guns.

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This-Rutabaga6382@reddit

This is a huge issue that I think is under appreciated is how each carrier can be a little different fit for each person and how they effect your shouldering of weapons is something you HAVE to account for

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WardenWolf@reddit

FYI, the new AR500 Invictus is a beast of a carrier. One unique feature is ir already having Velcro for pontoons.

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quinn943@reddit

So a lot of people are saying ceramics and I wanna make the case for steel real quick.

BLUF: steel over ceramics imo

Ceramics can have spalling, or the correct term fragmentation. There are plenty of stress test videos out there, so doing some research is a big thing. Back to steel though given the prevalence of that possibility most companies are using a anti-frag coating. How effective it is depends and again just like anything meant to save your life do some videos and third party reviews. Now onto why I personally use steel.

Steel is cheaper and that money saved can be massive. I use plates from steel ops and their videos, reviews, and my own test, showed 556 green tip (a armor piercing type of 556 that is widely available and the most likely civilian variant of armor piercing you will see) and 762x39, without a full 30 round mag dump and 20 feets before the anti frag failed. That is more than enough imo as if you're being shot that much you got bigger problems.

A cheap and easy fix/supplement you can do at home is wrapping it in duct tape and flex seal. I have done that as well myself and it works great as a repair and for plates like the highcom ar1000 or whatever plates that sell for $60 and basically don't have an anti-frag and they withstood 5-10,556 green and 556 fmj respectively. Again this is great for repairs and base layering.

Finally, think about why you are getting shot at by rifle rounds. Militaries and police use ceramics because they can replace them, steel plates can be repaired if they aren't pierced. If you are being shot at with rifle rounds, how likely after that fire fight can you just order more plates, if you are in the US I am gonna guess never as they only way that will happen is some collapse event or the feds are shooting you themselves.

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