Paxton probes Dallas Islamic mediation group, accuses it of imposing ‘sharia law’
Posted by Equivalent_Road5788@reddit | Dallas | View on Reddit | 85 comments
LP99@reddit
Anytime someone says “sHaRiA lAw” the only next question should be asking them to define it.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Death penalty for apostates
Death penalty for Homosexuals
Women require mens permission for basic tasks or ability to travel
etc etc etc
all interpretations are evil and incompatible with Western laws
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
I've literally listened to Christians argue for every last one of those things
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
And do Church teachings/Bible verses work against or in their favor?
Thats like using ISIS as a moral compass for all Muslim's, its extremely disingenuous.
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
Maybe basing laws on religious texts is a bad idea.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Well here is where you have a key difference between Islam and Christianity, while both are based on religious texts, Christianity uses the Church as a means to actively respond to modern issues and REFORM. Islam on the other hand doesn't not allow any reformation as that would be deemed "innovation" which is why Islamic societies are morally still stuck in the 7th century.
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
It's bronze age morality for people with a bronze age understanding. Grow up.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Islam is bronze age morality 100%, Christianity formed the basis of the very Western civilization which gives you all your freedoms.
are you 5? lmao who uses "grow up"
leostotch@reddit
lol Greece, and later Rome, formed the basis of 'Western Civilization'. Christianity came along quite a bit later. Please read a book.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
they deeply shaped government very much so, also courts. But in morality? Both society's were filled with slavery, women were powerless etc etc.
Christianity and the enlightenment formed our moral ideals, which is what the whole argument is about.
leostotch@reddit
Which 'moral ideals' were formed by christianity? "Thou shalt not murder" wasn't exactly groundbreaking when Moses came down from the mountain.
Christianity was used repeatedly to justify and defend chattel slavery and to argue against the 19th amendment right here in the US of A.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
The ten commandments as a framework for living, the Beatitudes flip conventional ideas for the time - which literally coined the term "upside down kingdom of God" as the teachings of Jesus valued humility, service, love and forgiveness over power and wealth, contrary to human society. The parables especially. These were all easily spread across societies and passed down generations and presented engaging instances where listeners/readers rethought the standards of how they lived and treated life.
Yes Christianity was unrightfully twisted by many to defend slavery across the world, however abolitionism has an even deeper Christian influence and is actually supported by scripture unlike slavery, also many of the early Church fathers strongly criticized the institution of slavery.
And here we have another difference between Islam and Christianity, Jesus the moral framework for Christians preached love and equality for all humans in Luke 4:18 he states one of his missions is to "proclaim freedom for the prisoners" he owned no slaves let alone many material goods.
Now Muhammed on the other hand the moral framework for Muslims was a prevalent slave trader in his region, he bought and sold many slaves, in one sahih Hadith he stated two black slaves are the same value as a single Arab slave (Sahih Muslim 1602) he also had many female slaves captured in battles which he used as concubines.
leostotch@reddit
None of that is original to Christianity.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
you could make that argument, but Christianity is what spread, and normalized it
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
I prefer to give credit to the Code of Hammurabi for coming up with most of those basic laws.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Not the Cyrus Cylinder?
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
An exasperated adult talking to a willful man child. That's who says grow up.
leostotch@reddit
Those are all in the bible, too lol
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Then cite the verses
leostotch@reddit
Deuteronomy 13:
Leviticus 20:
1 Corinthians tells us women aren't allowed to speak in churches. 1 Timothy tells us women are not allowed to teach men, or to have authority over them, 'For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner'. The book of Mark tells us that a woman may not divorce her husband, equating it to adultery (which Leviticus tells us is punishable by death).
Now you cite the verses from the Quran.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
The Leviticus and Deturonomy verses your provided are both part of Mosiac law and are not binding on Christians, literally no denomination recognizes them as still in effect, this is just as dumb as the multicolored fabrics joke.
For your later 2 verses you can read this response made by someone else better than I can.
This is nothing against women, nor does this verse suggest that women are less adept at critical thinking. Context is everything with scripture; this, to the extent there are more modern interpretations of this verse which don’t always correlate with the more traditional understanding.
There is a deeper theology behind this verse Relative to Catholicism (at least), it's about the familial nature of the new Covenant which is inherent to all of God's covenants, something reflective of God's very nature. What are all of God's covenants reducible to, the covenant of marriage (of husband and wife), the first covenant that God established. God's own relationship with Israel reflects this, Israel being God's wife. It's no wonder that Christ's Church (the new Israel) is his bride, to be later revealed in her full glory at the end of time (according to Revelation).
With St Paul asserting that women cannot teach or have authority (1 Timothy 2:8-15), this is relative to the priesthood only. This is because priests (Jesus being the high priest) are acting “in persona Christi” (in the "person" of Christ), in representation of “him” (on earth) relative to his bride, the Church. In this way priests are mystically married to the Church (“her”) just as Christ is. This is why priests aren’t married in the natural sense, because they (being men) already are, to "the bride" of Christ, the Church, who is feminine. Fittingly, it’s through the waters of “Mother Church” that we are born anew spiritually, through the “waters” of baptism, typological of natural birth.
With the Church being feminine (the new Israel) "she" is the “the bulwark and pillar of truth” (according to Timothy) who effectively teaches the faithful (and the world) about Christ. In fact, it was also St Paul who taught that men and women are equal in dignity, as with Jew and gentile, in Gal. 3:28.
Furthermore, it’s more common than not to see women leading and teaching RCIA classes, the classes new Catholics are required to attend before entering into the Church. It’s also not uncommon to see women professors teaching priests about theology and other curricula related to the priesthood. Additionally, you will often find women leading/teaching Bible studies as well as serving various other leadership roles within the Church.
Lastly, there are many great “doctors of the Church” (including canonized saints) who are also women whose wisdom, experience, and knowledge of the faith have been expressed through various approved writings, teachings, and feast days of the Church.
To suggest that women cannot literally teach and must be quiet (outside the role of the priest) is absurd. If taken literally this would mean that women (including mothers, grandmothers, Godmothers, aunts, sisters, etc) would not be allowed to “teach” the faith to their own loves ones (friends and family), those who are often the most influential and effective people to learn the faith from. At least in my own experience, my mother has been a major influence to me, an inspiration that has far exceeded the influences of any homilies I’ve heard from any priest(s).
Sometimes the greatest and most effective teachers of the faith aren’t always the ones standing behind a pulpit. The priesthood is far more theological in nature than it being reducible to a mere position of authority or someone who will hopefully present an inspiring homily to us.
leostotch@reddit
lol "That's old testament, bro"
You don't get to take the most extreme interpretation of one side and compare it to the most reasonable interpretation of the other. That's just being dishonest.
tiddly_winks2@reddit
You know. I'm a Muslim. And I live in an Islamic country. Or used to but still a citizen of.
Infact, our constitution is based so that no law is against Islamic teachings.
So... having said that...I have never heard of any gay person of any gender being sentenced to death or prison.
Infact, our country officially recognizes three genders; male, female and what you'd call trans.
There is a death penalty for blasphemy. Been in the books for years. But no one had officially been hung for it. All the sentences were commuted.
Women require permission. I don't know about ask the women in the country and I'm sure a lot of them do recognize men s the had of the household since most women don't work.... there urban ones at least. But you're welcome to tell my wife or mom what to do cause you're s "man". And run. Cause they'll kick your ass with a flying flip flop. The weapon of choice.
Sharia is mostly about inheritance. Business transactions. And yes domestic law.
Btw... you might wanna look at Christian countries in Africa that ban imprison or javed the death penalty for homosexual acts.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Your right in the vast majority of Islamic countries Shariah judiciaries do not really conduct executions directly citing the reason as Blasphemy or Homosexuality. What they do instead is come up with bogus charges. Direct executions really only "stopped" in the 21st century. Or the population gets ahold of the "accused" and carries out the killing themselves, of which there are many such cases.
"Women require permission. I don't know about ask the women in the country and I'm sure a lot of them do recognize men s the had of the household since most women don't work.... there urban ones at least. But you're welcome to tell my wife or mom what to do cause you're s "man". And run. Cause they'll kick your ass with a flying flip flop. The weapon of choice."
Seems like you have quite a westernized family! good on yall because in a pious Muslim family in accordance with stricture the husband may beat his wife if he so much as fears disobedience, Qur'an 4:34: "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."
Or your mother is just very obedient to you father and has never done anything to upset him.
tiddly_winks2@reddit
You know. As scriptures go. That's relatively milquetoast compared to what the Bible prescribes
Thin-Constant-4018@reddit
Most of Sharia Law just has to do with day-to-day things like marriage disputes. This is mainly just an assumption of what it is through hearsay when this isn't what it is at all. It's a legal code, not a mandate to kill or oppress a bunch of people. (in fact much of Islamic theology is AGAINST THAT without reason)
Fun_Level_4016@reddit
YES! What do you know about sharia law?
leostotch@reddit
lol "no u" he says
yeongno_ate_yangban@reddit
While in their pointy hats?
photog_prince@reddit
If only... ngl that NYC sharia sounds pretty good right about now.
PossibilityFew5967@reddit
I bet he'll never go after Jewish temples or Christian churches that do this
Fun_Level_4016@reddit
Neither Jewish nor Christian congregations will impose sharia law... Smh.
CatteNappe@reddit
No, they won't. But they will conduct mediation and counseling relying on Christian or Jewish tenets; just as Muslim groups do among their own fellow believers. In fact, it is far more likely that Christian leaders will impose Christianist laws than the small percentage of Muslims would try to impose Sharia law.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
what exactly are "Christianist" laws lmfao, the ten commandments? Gospel teachings?, Catholic Catechism's? And Christian laws/teachings are no way comparable to the evil that is Islam.
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
Maybe the law that lets you collect a bounty for snitching on a woman who left the state for an abortion, it did you forget about that?
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
What verse/teaching promotes that? And even if that was something Christianity promoted that is no way comparable to Islam allowing a man to beat his wife into submission if the husband so much as fears disobedience.
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
You think that trash isn't in Christian doctrine? Maybe try reading your own holy book, and listening to your faith leaders with your brain turned on.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Nope I dont, do you have any specific verses you could cite that support your claim that it is Christian doctrine?
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
Also, do you even know what doctrine is? Why are you trying to conflate it with scripture? Are you disingenuous or just ignorant?
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Okay so what major denomination says you can collect a bounty for snitching a women who left the state for an abortion?
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
The state of texas, as led by Christian nationalists. Which churches spoke out against it? I don't remember any. Did any, or did they all roll over in submission?
Mnudge@reddit
I see you don’t know much about your own religion, let alone others. Christian Nationalism is thr evil right here at home but because it’s familiar, its believers are blind to it.
Fun_Level_4016@reddit
What religion am I? Beyond that assumption, what do you know about sharia law?
Did you know that a wife cannot refuse to have sex with their husband...
Women are treated as possessions. Women are told how to dress. Womem are placed under male guardianship.
They circumcise girls. They marry 10 yo girls
Homosexuality is forbidden.
When one of these laws are broken they do not punish like we do.
leostotch@reddit
This is all true of 'christian laws' as well.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Cite the verses then
leostotch@reddit
Cite the Quran verses first, I already did the legwork for you elsewhere and you haven't responded to that yet.
Wonderful_Web4642@reddit
Sure,
Sahih al-Bukhari 5134
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Quran 4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Quran 33:59
"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known so as not to be annoyed." This is from the Noble Quran. The word 'annoyed' is yu'dhayna, which actually means 'harmed' or 'hurt' elsewhere in the same sura. How would a woman be 'harmed' for not covering herself? Let's just say that Yusuf Ali translates it as 'molested' - as in a woman could bring sexual abuse on herself if she is
Quran 33:50
"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" This is one of several personal-sounding verses "from Allah" narrated by Muhammad - in this case allowing a virtually unlimited supply of sex partners. Other Muslims are restricted to four wives, but they may also have sex with any number of slaves, following the example of their prophet.
Abu Dawud 4462
The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done." (This is a sahih hadith)
Abu Dawud 4448
"If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."
just a few notable Quran verses and Hadiths
Fun_Level_4016@reddit
Correct. We already live by Christian laws. Our laws are based on the ten commandments.
leostotch@reddit
I guarantee you know slightly less about Islam than you apparently do about Christianity. Read a book.
Onuus@reddit
You mean like banning alcohol sales on Sunday, and banning all hemp shops from selling thca?
Oh wait
CatteNappe@reddit
Or like requiring the Ten Commandments be posted in every classroom.
FluidFisherman6843@reddit
They do the exact same thing all the time. Hell it is literally part of the Christian theology. You are to take grievances between congregation members to the church to be resolved.
Mnudge@reddit
And covered up. Especially when it comes to the frequent occurrences of sexual abuse and pedophilia within the Christian nationalist movement
FluidFisherman6843@reddit
Hell Ken Paxton's divorce was a Christian sharia divorce
leostotch@reddit
Christians are literally trying to impose their version of sharia law right now.
Fun_Level_4016@reddit
Our country's legal system is based on christian laws. Oy vay
leostotch@reddit
It definitely isn't.
Fun_Level_4016@reddit
That is a sound rebuttal.
leostotch@reddit
You get what you give
aggie1391@reddit
These “Islamic meditation groups” are for like business disputes between Muslims per their religion and for doing the religious side of divorces. Christians and Jews absolutely have those exact same things, Catholics have a whole canon law that deals either those sorts of things and Jews have halacha. There’s nothing wrong or illegal about them, but the GOP wants to distract from their awful policies by targeting a religious minority their cult hates. Frankly the rhetoric about secret Muslim control and plans to take over Texas and force them into sharia law somehow when Muslims are like 1% of the population sound a whole lot like what the Nazis said about Jews.
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
And what is the fundamental difference between sharia law and Christian fundamental based law?
Zestyclose-Finish778@reddit
Is the Sharia law in the room with us?
Large-Hamster-199@reddit
Obviously not, They will try to impose Christian law. That's why they're called Christians.
Where the hell do you think the entire pro-life movement comes from?
FluidFisherman6843@reddit
They absolutely do.
You know that whole restoration process that evangelical churches do instead of calling the police for sexual assault, spousal abuse, and other crimes (see Robert Morris and countless others along with the Catholic child sex abuse "scandal"). That is fucking Christian sharia.
Clown.
Powerful-Context416@reddit
As Trump threatens genocide in Iran and ends his statement with "God Bless".......
junglist_xpedition@reddit
Smarts money's on DeSantis and Paxton, jerking each other off while watching the girls school bombing video on repeat....
junglist_xpedition@reddit
Smarts money's on DeSantis and Paxton, jerking each other off while watching the girls school bombing video on repeat.... 🫡
sweet_greggo@reddit
Did they do something incredulous like force schools to display their religious doctrine in every classroom?
junglist_xpedition@reddit
🎯🎯🎯
NarcolepticMoogle@reddit
The ironic thing is he and the disgusting like minded individuals who buy into the Christian Nationalism side of Christianity want the exact same thing. The extremist Muslim groups and hardcore Christian Nationalists are the same thing with a different coat of paint.
Fun_Level_4016@reddit
You sound like you know nothing about sharia law.
NarcolepticMoogle@reddit
As a Christian in Texas I know all I need to know about Christian Nationalists and their Old Testament vision for society. It honestly isn't much different then the "sharia law" abhorrent snow flakes like Mr. Paxton bitch about.
Onuus@reddit
Sharia law by definition means you follow the law of the land you currently live in.
Any American who is not murdering, stealing, anything else - committing crimes on a daily basis - is following sharia law by definition.
This has nothing to do with Islam, and is just a way for bigots to be bigoted.
I am Muslim, this is how I know.
4ndril@reddit
Why is he still in office? Can we already begin with the proceedings?
GlocalBridge@reddit
What performative assholery is this?
9bikes@reddit
>performative assholery
Exactly what this is.
Paxton absolutely knows better than to believe there's something worth investigating going on. But it is a way to fire up the MAGA crowd.
Raza1985@reddit
The dont have any achievements so far to put in front of public So..
Altruistic-Carry-684@reddit
Quick. Someone get him to participate in another game of hide and seek.
Mnudge@reddit
The closest thing we have to Sharia Law are the Christian Nationalists.
AnastasiaNo70@reddit
HOW? THEY AREN’T IN CHARGE OF DIDDLY DOO DAH.
This jerk needs to focus on actually doing his job.
yeongno_ate_yangban@reddit
What about actual proven felonies and adultery?
NanADsutton@reddit
Pathetic weak criminal grifter of Texans
AvailableReporter484@reddit
This town ain’t big enough for two theocracies!
BlueHorse_22@reddit
Disgusting excuse for a human being
medisamurai@reddit
this guy is not a texan. hes worse than trump just much less power