airline pilots: how important is having a sterile cockpit?
Posted by Repulsive-Loan5215@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 142 comments
during my training, I used to have a bad habit of conversing with my CFI during taxi, takeoff, and “critical” phases of flight. I became fond of the sterile cockpit rule and applied it during my checkride. But do airline pilots ever engage in small talk about irrelevant things during taxiing, run-up, takeoff, and landing?
BrtFrkwr@reddit
I wipe things down with handi-wipes when I have them.
theyoyomaster@reddit
One of my early trips the first thing the AC asked me was "do you know whose job it is to clean the stick and throttles?" I said "no" and he responded with "because it's nobody's." He then busted out some wipes and went to town on the entire cockpit.
Years down the road... I don't disagree with him.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
That depends on whose stick and throttle.
Junior-Special5159@reddit
if it’s your own then it’s the stewardess’ job
xixoxixa@reddit
Live your life in such a way that you get someone to wipe down your stick and throttle for you.
LaurentKiloVictor@reddit
Et les pare-soleils pleins de traces de doigts ?
theyoyomaster@reddit
S'ils sont complètement rayés, il n'y a rien de traces de doigts.
BChips71@reddit
"went to town on the entire cockpit."
Sounds dirty.
theyoyomaster@reddit
It was very dirty.
HSVMalooGTS@reddit
This is why cabin crew never has enough for passengers...
Small_Chicken1085@reddit
People be so nastyyyyyy.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
Boogers on the radio knobs, you know.
Small_Chicken1085@reddit
Repugnant creatures.
1202burner@reddit
Join me in trucking, I got stories AND pictures.
loose_as_a_moose@reddit
It feels goofy, but in my heart I actually agree with the corporate jet guys and some Asian airlines that require gloves in the FD.
funnynoises@reddit
Ehhh that's a little much. Just gimme some lysol wipes and call it a day.
aftcg@reddit
Me too. Probably doesn't help but it makes me feel better
KrabbyPattyCereal@reddit
I’m not an airline pilot but the answers you’re going to get are going to range from “not today, FAA” to “no I only fly exactly as specified in the company manual and the FARs”.
deltajvliet@reddit
I remember watching Sully, and a little before the geese hit, one of the pilots said something to the effect "Beautiful morning." The whole movie I was rooting for the NTSB to win, and this was their most damning piece of evidence, as they were clearly below 10. Yet, the NTSB never even brought it up in the hearings! Typical Hollywood.
EpicRedhead13@reddit
I hate how the NTSB is trying to “win” throughout the whole movie. It’s not a competition. They’re not the insurance or airline nor are they responsible to either. Otherwise it’s a good movie.
deltajvliet@reddit
Yeah, I guess Eastwood needed a villain 🤷♂️
venturelong@reddit
Arent the geese the villains? Seems they got dealt with pretty early in the movie though.
natew314@reddit
Aren't the geese really the main victims? https://youtu.be/zX8Lm4t_zJI?si=3Yi4LXVhYqWoPMLZ
BentGadget@reddit
If you make geese the villains, people might take matters into their own hands and violate some migratory bird protection laws.
tarrasque@reddit
Not an expert in bird law?
turbo-steppa@reddit
They were dicks though weren’t they?
LazyPasse@reddit
the geese were total ducks. edit: autocorrect. dicks. the geese were total dicks.
Gin_OClock@reddit
What the duck
IndependenceStock417@reddit
Someone quacked up
adios-buckaroo@reddit
In real life? They simply investigated all of the angles, like they are supposed to do. I think even Sully said they were very professional and didn’t care for the way they were portrayed in the movie. The insurance company on the other hand…
unnecessary_overhead@reddit
Apparently the NTSB characters in the movie originally had the real investigator's names. Sullenberger asked Eastwood to change them because he didn't like how they were depicted.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Nah. Sully was called to testify, but it was for like 30 minutes and they were not dicks to him at all.
flyingintothesun10@reddit
In an interview, Eastwood admitted that they had to make up the villain because by the time the NTSB got to them, they were slready heroes.
sirduckbert@reddit
Without a good guy and a bad guy it would have been a documentary
EpicRedhead13@reddit
I guess I should go watch the hearings on YouTube since it wasn’t.
Small_Chicken1085@reddit
I respond to things like beautiful morning with “sterile cockpit. Please”. You can tell me about the morning at 10,001 feet.
sirduckbert@reddit
I prefer a cheery “shut the fuck up” but that’s just me
AggressiveAnt7613@reddit
You say that ant the young kids will go straight to HR
Small_Chicken1085@reddit
Haha. If I could deliver that cheerily I would.
deltajvliet@reddit
I appreciate the tone you set, but consider removing "Please." It's not germane to the safety of flight and could cause you to miss a critical radio call or some such thing. Still, thank you for fighting the good fight.
Kseries2497@reddit
Sounds like some controllers I've worked with.
"Where does it say 'good day' in the .65?"
BChips71@reddit
It doesn't. It says "G'day"
BChips71@reddit
No, you're wrong. "Please" helps to keep it a non-threatening flight deck environment and is key to proper CRM, which in turn, supports the safe operation of flight.
Small_Chicken1085@reddit
God. You’re right. Garrulous even.
ManagedSpeed340@reddit
The most Hollywood thing about that is the NTSB being vilified and having an agenda to blame the PIC.
unique_usemame@reddit
I think the question should be... What percentage of the time does the guy next to you break the sterile cockpit rule?
jackpotairline@reddit
We do occasionally study the overhead panel too, but only in cruise.
For legal reasons this is a joke
747-spud@reddit
Controlled rest is a real thing!
atooraya@reddit
Not in the US! I continuously monitor instruments during 6 hours in cruise. Prepared. Waiting. Deliberately planning what to do in each scenario that the ECAM can present. Staring outside only to decide where my alternate is. All flight, even on redeyes.
BChips71@reddit
This guy Airbuses
whatdoestheregsay@reddit
It’s like when my late grandpa used to say he was going to “study the back of his eyelids”.
mvpilot172@reddit
I’m definitely not shaking my head in agreement with this FAA.
AggressiveAnt7613@reddit
Have you ever turned on a black light in the cockpit? Sterile is the last thing I’d call it
Su-37_Terminator@reddit
I swiftly tell my captain and anyone who enters to shutthefuckup if they are not completely silent forever. when at home I scuttle from cover to cover and never speak more than three words if spoken to, and never over 3 decibels. except when im eating, then I smack my lips and flap my tongue so it sounds like a fucking dog is eating a bowl of gravy right next to your ear.
Flyward_Aerospace@reddit
The rule exists for a good reason, but yeah, completely depends on the crew. Some guys are strict about it even in cruise. Others will chat about last night's game during taxi and somehow it's fine. The dangerous middle is the crew that thinks they're being professional but is actually just distracted. Self-awareness matters more than the rule itself imo.
tarrasque@reddit
IIRC, FARs require sterile cockpit in critical phases below 10k ft.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
We are supposed to, and it is important. Everyone tends to apply it, but sometimes people make small comments here and there ("look how many boats there are," "look at that cool airplane"). Full on conversations aren't done 99.9% of the time, and if someone tries, I'll ignore them, or tell them to stfu.
360_bratXcX@reddit
you guys don’t ever talk about how the weekend was? or your favorite movies? or even girls? 😂🤣
DanThePilot_Mann@reddit
What’s a girl?
RaiseTheDed@reddit
I've only heard of hookers. Sometimes they have a penis, though.
mustang__1@reddit
Gotta check the adams apple and elbow. Just because they don't have a penis doesn't mean they never had a penis.
Carlito_2112@reddit
I've got some advice for you little buddy. Before you point your finger, you should know that I'm the man...
Carlito_2112@reddit
RaiseTheDed@reddit
Above 10,000' we can. Sterile cockpit is from preflight checklist to 10,000'
andrewrbat@reddit
A perk of having 2 small kids: i can ignore an awful lot of distractions.
Unclestephenisback@reddit
At what point do you ask the other guy if he’s been to a Turkish prison?
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Yeah this is the most realistic answer. One-liners only, and if they're not funny or interesting you're going to get a silent implication to shut the fuck up until 10.
poser765@reddit
This is my observation as well. Sterile universally used but with the occasional short remark or quip. Rarely is there a full on conversation under 10. Me snd the other pilot have slipped and been really into something but it’s always caught and wrapped up b
Drunkenaviator@reddit
Sterile? You're lucky if they clean that flight deck at all between heavy checks.
Oh, wait, talking? No, we don't do that. Not today Mr. FAA.
dumptruckulent@reddit
I was convinced my military IPs would say shit just to get inside my OODA loop because some dudes be trying to start a conversation when I’m turning to final.
I was fighting for my life trying to land a high speed approach in the Zulu on goggles and my IP was like, “hey check it out. I got a coyote in the sensor.”
Diligent_Digiridoo@reddit
“OODA loop” in the wild???? Rah devil. I was w 367 for a bit
Flyboy_Rod@reddit
I don't think I've ever heard or seen someone use the term OODA loop non ironically outside of AETC.
alienXcow@reddit
You guys are forgetting he's a Marine. Crosscheck has way more letters than OODA loop
LounBiker@reddit
clicks PTT twice
slidellian@reddit
Sim pilot here- i always make my kids be quiet when I'm below 10
KeyPersimmon7@reddit
Hell yeah
Recent-Day3062@reddit
Cockpit voice recorder say yes
jungle@reddit
Yes, I remember one such case, flight LAPA 3142, a 737 where the cockpit was definitely not sterile.
indecision_killingme@reddit
Are you more likely to get into a car accident chitchatting with a passenger or focusing on the road?
BChips71@reddit
yes
Dirac3974@reddit
Sully broke sterile cockpit right before the bird strike:
15:26:17 HOT-1 flaps one. 15:26:37 HOT-1 uh what a view of the Hudson today. 15:26:42 HOT-2 yeah.
Kdog0073@reddit
Discussing weather conditions is pertinent to the safety of flight! “What a view” is just a less formal way of saying that there are excellent visibility conditions.
xixoxixa@reddit
Arguably safer since it uses less words and takes less time.
Theodore764@reddit
Genuinely very smart way of phrasing this, I wouldn’t have thought about putting it that way haha
EdBasqueMaster@reddit
That’s why you pay union dues.
clarkmueller@reddit
I’d call commentary about the environment/weather/flight conditions an alignment of situational awareness. Very prescient situational awareness at that, I dare say, in the case of 1549. Of course, sterile cockpit rules exist because of accidents in which a lot of people have died, so it’s worth taking seriously.
lyrapan@reddit
In his case he was basically calling field in sight
the_kerbal_side@reddit
Omfg
adios-buckaroo@reddit
Maybe he was remarking on the the beautiful waterfowl about to cross their flight path 😉
MikeOfAllPeople@reddit
Yes, sterile cockpits are an important safety policy and all crewmembers should follow those policies.
But reality is usually something else, especially in a training context because, go figure, critical phases of flight are also the meat of flight instruction. So violating sterile cockpit concepts is one of the first things students and instructors learn to do.
It takes some personal discipline to stay on top of it and to realize when you are straying from relevant conversation, which is not as black and white as you'd think.
poser765@reddit
Depending on the other guy I’ve got no problem with sterile in cruise as well.
velosnow@reddit
What, you don’t want to hear all about the ‘hot’ 3rd wife, new boat, and a great investment opportunity?!
poser765@reddit
I listened to a dude bitch about his ex wife for an entire 3 day. Finally on go home leg I asked him when they got divorced. This guy has the nerve to tell me they’d been divorced for 13 damn years. Sigh.
PilotBurner44@reddit
And I'm sure it was all her fault.....
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
It's more funny when you find out they were married for like eight months.
Flew with an FO once, it was her first trip after moving out. By day three I had used my captain psychologist powers to determine that she was, in all observable likelihood, the problem.
IndependenceStock417@reddit
I can fix her
blitzroyale@reddit
Captain has the relationship experience already lol 😆
PILOT9000@reddit
FRFR
LowValueAviator@reddit
Depends who you’re flying with. Some people fly the same while talking even in the flare, some people will have a literal meltdown if you say anything while they’re trying to push a button at cruise - they just can’t process it. However, since no one is really improved by talking the one-size-fits-all approach is to observe sterile as prescribed by the flight manual.
Pickle_Rick_MFr@reddit
Nice try, faa
MrAflac9916@reddit
As a CFI Who loves to yap I try to shut this down. Sometimes I’ll actually work it into my lessons, by asking my students if they saw the game last night or something on short final… if they bite, I remind them of sterile cockpit rule
druuuval@reddit
All I could picture was The Rock screaming “it doesn’t matter what you think!” right after you started the conversation.
Ok_Witness179@reddit
It's important outside of airline flying too...
Was coming into Chattanooga for a students long cross country flight late once night. Radio is pretty much dead. He's yapping his head off, and we're converging with the only other airplane in 100 miles radius. I'm just sitting, nodding along, "uh huh, wow that's crazy, yep, ..." For 10 minutes, watching this situation unfold perfectly.
Finally we get to an extended base leg, other traffic is doing basically the same, but student is about to turn into them. I'm just like "NOPE. Don't turn, look left. See that traffic? I haven't been participating in the conversation because I've been watching him instead. Bet you would have seen him or heard him on the radio too if you weren't talking so much. That's what sterile flight deck is all about."
legitSTINKYPINKY@reddit
It depends what arrival, departure, and airport.🤷♂️
run264fun@reddit
This question came up on my ATP Multi written. Correct answer: “pointing out a local monument while taxiing” would be in violation.
miianwilson@reddit
Couldn’t care less if someone wants to talk any time except at rotation, or in the flare.
Independent-Reveal86@reddit
It should be sterile below 10,000' but, in my experience, it isn't. You definitely won't have any words other than the standard calls during a take-off though.
usmcmech@reddit
I had a captain that was checking the loads on his commute flight as he was taxing onto the runway. 🤦♂️
miianwilson@reddit
Had a captain executing trades on Fidelity. Had to do it when the markets opened, and we were night flying in China.
External-Creme-6226@reddit
Go home leg rules applied
Lukecv1@reddit
You can tell how important it is by accident data
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
You get a feel for when the lulls are and you can have light conversation. Nobody’s trying to shoot the shit while taxiing, or flying the first part of the SID.
JumboTrijet@reddit
There are 40 years of farts in cushions of the 767s I’m flying, so there is no chance of anything close to a sterile cockpit
Pilot125@reddit
Important enough that it's possible to get fired for breaking it
FeatherMeLightly@reddit
Absolutely, take off and landing, ISO is wonderful button to push on the panel.
Imaginary_Trust_7019@reddit
The truth depends a lot on work load and the topic at hand... Flaps are up and you're climbing away and the sunset is nice, or view of the mountains are great a simple observational "great day to go flying" comment is good.
But typically you stay out of the weeds in bigger conversations.. like no one would be discussing Iran war politics on the downwind leg. Maybe in cruise, but maybe not if the other guy is a bit too passionate.
Oregon-Pilot@reddit
Nope, never.
prex10@reddit
A CVR can and will be used against you in an investigation.
Repulsive-Loan5215@reddit (OP)
?
prex10@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1141
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_Flight_5191
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/71662
Rainebowraine123@reddit
From 1141 "The recordings, which were broadcast repeatedly by the press, proved so embarrassing that a law was subsequently passed to prohibit the release of cockpit voice recordings. Since the passage of that law, only written transcripts have been released rather than the voice recordings themselves."
Oof.
mvweatherornot@reddit
Right, that’s why I plan to do things right. And if I fuck it u so bad, I don’t care what’s on the CVR
ananajakq@reddit
Generally we always observe the sterile cockpit rules. It’s unprofessional and against SOP if you’re just talking in critical phases of flight.
LGAflyer@reddit
Like most things, it depends. ORD on a busy morning? Pretty much totally sterile. LAX during sunset where the SID is pretty easy and there’s not much distraction? Less so.
Proton_Energy_Pill@reddit
Yeah we do. At busy airports less so though, you have to keep sharp situational awareness.
Ethealtes@reddit
I just finished my ATP CTP class, there is a reason it's a mandatory part of training.
us1549@reddit
It doesn't matter what I think, my company's FOM requires a sterile cockpit so I adhere to that
aftcg@reddit
Uh huh.
Shit-Pilot@reddit
Nerd alert!
FiberApproach2783@reddit
Name checks out
LigerSixOne@reddit
It isn’t very important at all. But on the day you miss something that causes an emergency, it retroactively becomes incredibly important.
Carre_Munuts@reddit
I usually shut up and listen when I hear the radio if I’m not doing a flight related task.
saxmanB737@reddit
I mean it’s an FAR. So yes, we follow FAR’s.
Small_Chicken1085@reddit
Hell yea super pilot!
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
You should try to maintain sterile in critical phases of flight. What that looks like on a 121 jet is different than on a 172 training flight, but the concept still applies. We all fail at it and violate sterile, but it’s a goal.
Efficient-Mind-2213@reddit
Pretty darn important. Airports are a dangerous environment. Can't have a bunch of baby planes following you around or jetting off all over the place. Plus, have seen what it costs to feed and fuel planes these days?
minimumxxxx@reddit
Sometimes it happens that we make some comments but that’s it. Very important to adhere to the sterile cockpit rule even if sometimes it seems silly.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
Very.
scrubhiker@reddit
I don’t make it a briefing item but on the ground if I sense my FO is really careless about it I’ll say “let’s talk about that once we’re above 10k,” with varying levels of bluntness in my tone, and that gets the point across.
GoobScoob@reddit
It is important. It can be difficult to stay focused during mundane routine operations sometimes. Best way to not get distracted is to keep mouth shut, even if it’s boring.
Obviously there can be some downtime even during taxi, like a 10 minute hold for release or a 1.5 mile straight line taxi, but in general if the aircraft is in a high AOV you’re focused on your job. Plenty of accident reports that demonstrate what can when you’re not focused.
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
The difference is you’re in training with a cfi. It’s alright to talk especially if it pertains to the flight or something about learning. At an airline I would keep my trap shut
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
during my training, I used to have a bad habit of conversing with my CFI during taxi, takeoff, and “critical” phases of flight. I became fond of the sterile cockpit rule and applied it during my checkride. But do airline pilots ever engage in small talk about irrelevant things during taxiing, run-up, takeoff, and landing?
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