Talk to your instructors before posting on Reddit!
Posted by thereasonableaviator@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 39 comments
I just wanted to come here and post a PSA for everyone in flight training and remind you that your instructors are people too. Please talk to your instructor directly about what is bothering you before posting on Reddit.
Many of the concerns are legitimate but could also be solved with a two minute conversation letting them know that something they are doing is bothering you. Ninety nine percent of the time you can work it out and jumping straight to the chief pilot or firing them is usually not the right was to go about this (which seems to be everyone on Reddit’s favorite solution). Throughout your career you will fly with people you do not get along with, and being able to bridge those gaps and still get the job done is a skill you should start developing now.
Remember most everyone in this industry is trying to improve so a lot of the time a simple conversation can go a long way. No matter where you are the chief pilot is never your saving grace, and you should remember that when trying to use them to settle disagreements. The call the instructor gets to go into the chiefs office will not go how you imagine or want. It just gives the instructor a podium to tell the chiefs all the reasons that you are not putting in your best effort as a student so on and so forth. Most of the time the instructor will end up on top of that interaction and everyone is annoyed at you for wasting their time.
This is what being a professional is all about. Talk to people resolve your differences and stay out of the chiefs office together. No one is more invested in your training and seeing you succeed than your instructor is and certainly not the chief pilot, just keep that in mind.
fallingfaster345@reddit
This is good advice but will fall on deaf ears. Half the other posts are questions which could be solved with a simple Google search, and people are unwilling to do that, too. Is a 777 as big as an acre? Google it. Want to know when class dates are? Ask a recruiter. Having a problem with your flight training? Talk to your CFI.
Difficult conversations are a skill and it’s a skill that a lot of people don’t seem to possess and so many people are too scared to get any practice with it. You can fly a plane but you can’t take negative feedback from a captain or you can’t advocate for yourself with your flight school? One of those should be harder than the other and it’s not the conversion.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
And this is a massive problem that is currently being dealt with across all levels of education and young people joining the workforce.
We're seeing a microcosm of it here daily.
We're also seeing how many people seem to be terrified of doing something alone. The amount of posts from people that barely have any solo hours, or are afraid to leave. The 50 nautical mile radius of their home airport, is astounding.
I met two career focused young pilots, they were in their twenties, the other day who were utterly shocked that I flew 170 nautical miles with just a PPL. They were legitimately asking me if I was scared and how did I work up the courage to do it. I thought they were messing with me.
Accomplished_Emu1222@reddit
I just got my PPL and can’t wait for the weather to be better and explore nearby states even though I’m planning to make a career of my flying. For example I’d like to fly to the sportys store. Which for me is about 200nm from home base. So to me it’s crazy that people who are career focused refuse to fly beyond their training.
BLACKzj52@reddit
Username checks out
JetJock60@reddit
I agree with your first paragraph but disagree with the second. I believe a big problem in this industry is that CFI's, at least those that are in standalone 61/141 environments don't realize that at the end of the day, they are a business. They need to treat their "students" like what they are, CUSTOMERS! I am a former 141 Chief Instructor from a major metro area. I always reminded new hires that there was a lot competition in our area, while we may have been the most convenient for that student, if he/she doesn't feel they are getting value for their hard earned discretionary disposable income they'll up and go somewhere else. I would! If a CFI came to me complaining about a student (specially a low time newbie CFI) I would either fly with the student once or have them fly with a more experienced instructor I trusted for a second opinion. Weeding out "bad" CFI's is part of the Chief's job, as is customer retention.
Fancy_o_lucas@reddit
I think a lot of students get scared of their instructors reacting negatively or dismissively towards a question that the student actually wants to turn into a conversation. It’s a valid fear too, because for whatever reason there’s a ludicrous amount of instructors that complain that their students are asking basic or “stupid” questions. I can’t stand this culture, you’re an instructor, if your student who’s paying you asks if there’s increased drag when flying in a rainbow, you’d better be pulling out a PHAK with that student and finding an answer with them.
Kycrio@reddit
One early Sunday morning I was finishing my XC planning at the airport, and the 2 uniformed CFIs sitting at the same table as me started complaining about their students. One even mentioned a student by name and mocked him for "asking when he could solo when he can't even navigate to the practice areas." So yeah I can see why a student with such a CFI would be afraid to talk to them.
(I did send a message to the chief that some CFIs were overheard making fun of their students in earshot of other students)
PropWashPapi@reddit
Facts… I remember in training when I was a freshman POL student I always was scared of bringing up a convo about something because I either A) didn’t want to look stupid or B) have the CFI get upset at myself because I should already know that material so I would keep quiet and look it up myself when I got home behind closed doors.
Now that I’m teaching, I’d rather be asked hundreds of thousands of “dumb questions” by the student than just have them sit there in silence and nod no when I ask them if they “have any questions?”. So now I’m experiencing a full circle moment and having to put myself in their shoes to remember what it was like for myself!
thereasonableaviator@reddit (OP)
Yeah for sure I experienced the same thing as well. I bet we also shared the experience as a student of asking the “dumb question” and getting it explained to us again and the light bulb clicked and now we were suddenly at the understanding level of the concept. After that moment being a whole lot less reluctant to ask questions or sacrifice some ego for the sake of understanding. This intrinsic learning moment is what is missing from a lot of these students who are “too scared of their instructor to ask a question or state something directly”.
I shared the sentiment with you that as an instructor I would much rather be asked than have the student just sit there and not understand the concept at all.
thereasonableaviator@reddit (OP)
Yeah I will say this is an issue as I know there are instructors out there who will dismiss questions or act negatively towards them. There also needs to be more engagement from the student and taking responsibility for their own training. Most of the posts I see here about students complaining about instructors is not because of teaching material poorly it’s a lot of they do xyz and I don’t like it and won’t confront the instructor about it. They just want Reddit to tell them the instructor is the issue and it’s time for a new one.
Tasty_Impression_959@reddit
There are many instructor pilots who are approachable and profesional enough to make an honest effort to improve their less than desired teaching skills in the cabin and or the briefing room. Others are far beyond salvation and become far worse. I remain grateful for the many instructor pilots who instructed, mentored, and respected. The few others who were a nightmare disguised as an instructor pilots taught me the more important lesson they unintentionally could teach me, and that was not to ever become like them.
EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit
Um. No. You’re being paid to provide a service. You’re the professional. Maybe ask your student why they posted on the internet before “just” talking to you. Maybe….. there…is a reason.
thereasonableaviator@reddit (OP)
I love Reddit, I havent had any students do this to me just noticing a trend on Reddit. Why is my instructor taking every landing maybe because he asked you told him you didn’t mind and he genuinely doesn’t realize you are upset. Half the comments are just fire him lol.
EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit
The student often has no frame of reference for what good or bad instruction looks like or instruction that isn’t working for them. That’s why they go to the internet. As a student I couldn’t tell you that just telling me nose up up up up up up isn’t working for me whilst in the flare trying to land an172 and I need you to say something else because I, as the student, don’t know there’s anything else to be said (or taught). You don’t know what you don’t know right? You nailed it when you said instructors are humans too. That’s the problem. For every 5 CFIs that are going to listen to a students concern and work with them past a learning plateau there’s another 5 with egos who are going to tell the student they need to do better or work harder and that their instruction isn’t the problem. There’s ALOT of bad flight instructors out there and Reddit is a much safer place to drag them through the mud (potentially) then say Google or Yelp with their real names out there for eternity. I’ve been flying for 25 years and still use CFIs regularly and one thing I’ve learned is that there are a lot of great CFIs out there and there are a lot of truly terrible CFIs out there too. Literally just making things up. I always advocate for firing CFIs. It’s a service. If you’re not getting what you want from your service provider, sure talk to them if you want but the student doesn’t owe you anything. Unless you had them sign a contract saying please don’t go on Reddit before talking to me. They simply don’t owe us that courtesy. It would be nice….
latedescent@reddit
You need a frame of reference for what a paragraph is
EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit
On my phone? My tiny phone? With my fat fingers?
You’re dreamin. It was a herculean labor just typing it. If you’re unhappy with me. Fire me. Keep it
Moving.
Cessnateur@reddit
It's really not any effort to simply tap enter twice to start a new paragraph. I promise you can do it.
EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit
End communication.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Boom roasted
Thomas-Ligotti97@reddit
There indeed is a reason! It’s because many student pilots don’t understand asking their cfi’s and see posting on Reddit as an easy way out!
EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit
Especially with the newer generation raised on screens….
T-1A_pilot@reddit
....but it's soooo much easier to plead my case and explain my one sided story to thousands of random people on the internet!!!
Laxboarderchill@reddit
The ultimate red herring nowadays, a T-1 pilot
SP_Aman@reddit
Guys my instructor is saying I can never be a pilot! How do I get this guy fired for being racist?
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... oh and I may or may not have threatened him because he wouldn't solo me... blah blah blah blah blah blah
BasilProfessional09@reddit
But what if I want to share my side of the story missing key details in order to get gratification?
SP_Aman@reddit
Guys my instructor is saying I can never be a pilot! How do I get this guy fired for being racist?
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... oh and I may or may not have threatened him because he wouldn't solo me... blah blah blah blah blah blah
PlanetMcFly@reddit
I don’t know, I would rather see questions about flying from students that may be repetitive, than some “pro” pilot asking how to keep his shirts white, or the other “pro” who couldn’t figure out how to stream to his hotel tv. Both got serious answers btw, still had nothing to do with flying.
EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit
Um. No. It goes Reddit, talk to instructor, fire instructor. In that order. You can always go back to an instructor after you’ve fired them. There’s literally thousands to choose from. You’re being paid to provide a service. You’re the professional! The student doesn’t owe you anything but cash. Cold hard cash.
Thomas-Ligotti97@reddit
This is sarcasm right? Hard to tell nowadays
EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit
Some of it. Maybe most.
Thomas-Ligotti97@reddit
Yea I doubt that. 100% you’re just ignorant
EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit
Okay then Mr. Smart guy.
Vincent-the-great@reddit
They dont understand how small this industry is or that their cfi is probably reading their post.
vivalicious16@reddit
I once texted my instructor and asked if he’d ever listened to fountains of Wayne and he was happy to answer. Talk to your CFI, having a friendship with them makes training so much better and easier.
ltcterry@reddit
This topic should be mentioned in the FAQ.
micahpmtn@reddit
Sure they will. Having online discussions is the only thing this generation knows how to do.
toraai117@reddit
I am always grateful when I student tells me when I’m doing something they don’t like, or if they have critiques about the way I teach or act dress or whatever it is.
I’ve been doing this a long time and yet I’m always changing curriculum or how I approach a lesson. Always looking for ways to improve.
I’d hate to have a student go complain on Reddit when, like you said, we could easily work it out and both walk away better for it.
EliteEthos@reddit
You must be new here? Nobody does this and in fact if you ask them what their CFI said or tell them to ask their CFI, you’ll get downvoted.
I agree with you. I’d love for it to be incorporated into the rules (since nobody here should be giving instruction or feedback via Reddit, ESPECIALLY for people they aren’t able to actively see fly) but that seems a futile battle here.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I just wanted to come here and post a PSA for everyone in flight training and remind you that your instructors are people too. Please talk to your instructor directly about what is bothering you before posting on Reddit.
Many of the concerns are legitimate but could also be solved with a two minute conversation letting them know that something they are doing is bothering you. Ninety nine percent of the time you can work it out and jumping straight to the chief pilot or firing them is usually not the right was to go about this (which seems to be everyone on Reddit’s favorite solution). Throughout your career you will fly with people you do not get along with, and being able to bridge those gaps and still get the job done is a skill you should start developing now.
Remember most everyone in this industry is trying to improve so a lot of the time a simple conversation can go a long way. No matter where you are the chief pilot is never your saving grace, and you should remember that when trying to use them to settle disagreements. The call the instructor gets to go into the chiefs office will not go how you imagine or want. It just gives the instructor a podium to tell the chiefs all the reasons that you are not putting in your best effort as a student so on and so forth. Most of the time the instructor will end up on top of that interaction and everyone is annoyed at you for wasting their time.
This is what being a professional is all about. Talk to people resolve your differences and stay out of the chiefs office together. No one is more invested in your training and seeing you succeed than your instructor is and certainly not the chief pilot, just keep that in mind.
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
Questions about this comment? Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.