How harsh was Albania under it's communist rule?
Posted by Kickfinity12345@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 158 comments
Enver Hoxha was the Marxist-Leninist dictator of Albania from 1944 until his death in 1985, 6 years before the communist party offically dissolved.
technotronica@reddit
This guy was totally obnoxious and a staunch extremist. Balkan rage type of shit. China was embarrassed of his outbursts. The entire socialist world just ignored them. Reading about his constant rant of Albanian victimhood and "revisionists" is quite amusing! Recommend! Be prepared for some cringe emotions.
Fimbir@reddit
Do you know how bad you have to be for Mao to think you're nuts?
FranklinFeta@reddit
lol China bankrolled Albania from the 1960s until the late 70s until they decided Hoxha was wacked the fuck out.
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
This is false. Are you even Albanian?
FranklinFeta@reddit
From 1956-1975 China gave Albania $2 billion, with some sources claiming it was $3 billion. In 1973-74, 60% of imports into Albania came from China, it was 80% of imports at its peak.
Sorry I’m not an alternate history Albanian like some of y’all like to be.
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
Shqipria i ka pas lidhjet me sovjetiket ne fillim prek tyre kemi marr ndihma. Nga kinezet cdo gje esht marr me klering. Importi nuk esht ndihm. Nuk po them se nuk ka pas ndihna po nuk esht ne nivelin qe e thu ti. Plus marrdhrniet u nderpren pas hapjes se kines ndaj perendimit
Ok_Entrepreneur_6521@reddit
Ik o komunist
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
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Classic-Exit4189@reddit
Nuk jam komunist o budall
technotronica@reddit
I know. They were angry at China for not keeping them updated on a daily basis how the cultural revolution is going. China, a country of billions, a word superpower lol. Tito and Yugoslavia lived rent-free in his head.
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
He cut ties with china because they opened up to the west.
Maybe because they wanted to occupy Albania right after ww2, they were constantly undermining his govt and they were oppressing Albanians in Yugoslavia.
technotronica@reddit
Nobody wanted to occupy Albania, especially not Yugoslavia, lol. He was paranoid and delusional. He thought everyone wanted to occupy Albania so he build tens of thousands of bunkers everywhere. Meanwhile nobody wanted to have anything do with that regime or country as a whole.
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
Well thats just a pure lie. Tito wanted to make Albania the 7th Yugoslav republic. The original plan was to peacefully annex Albania by taking over the Albanian communist party from within through Koçi Xoxe's faction. In 1948 he almost deployed the Yugoslav army in Albania under the false pretense of "defending Albania from Greece". His plan failed mostly due to the Tito-Stalin split.
Also Greece attacked the southern border right after ww2 . Not to mention Operation Valuable / Fiend organized by MI6 and CIA to overthrow Hoxha.
technotronica@reddit
Tito proposed the Balkan federation, including Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Albania. Nobody wanted to occupy Albania. Why would they? The only state that had any logical pretense to occupy north Epirus was fascist regime Greece. Stop speeding Hoxaist lies please. You sound like a Serb "errbody against us n shieet".
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
Now youre just acting like you dont know better.
Ask Tito
Nice touch of anti-black racism at the end.
technotronica@reddit
Stalin or Khrushchev said to Tito Yugoslavia should "swallow" Albania. They were annoyed with yaals Balkan dramatics. Yugoslavia had no ambitions at all to occupy Albania. Not one single logical reason. Instead if being defiant, just learn from someone that actually knows. Albania claimed Kosovo instead, surprise surprise.
ippleing@reddit
He kissed up to Stalin just because Stalin promised to keep tito out.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Albania rehabilitated relations with Yugoslavia. He made speeches to scare people for more domsetic control, not like he really wanted to destroy Yugoslavia, because let us be realistic. Hoxha was not a patriot.
technotronica@reddit
I was trying to make sense of why he was so extremely "anti-revisionist". To the point of it being comical. He was probably scared to lose power. Afraid of change. In the 40's he executed his comrade who was having anti-Yugoslav sentiment, that was shortly after the Tito-Stalin split.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Because, every time a new leader came to power in Moscow, the other would follow. He knew this and made such big move. He had the experience of the purge in 1948, and then he was remorseless.
Yet, the Soviets, silently helped Hoxha maintain power, even though we exit the Warsaw Pact. Allegedly, a major CIA mission failed because Filby fed information to the soviets, and the only explanation is that Soviets passed on such info to Albanians. After such operation, CIA did not invest any further.
So, i think thag Hoxha's rhetoric was to keep Albanians in line. Of course, i also think he was more paranoid than any dictator, which made his rule even more brutal.
technotronica@reddit
I found this interesting documentary, watching it now.
https://youtu.be/eHftNln_dsQ?si=7AXv6CQNCSbjsYYD
Ujemegaz@reddit
Rama has similar practices. He does not kill his collaborators, but sacks them by denying any links once theh are being prosecuted and infering that the blame is on them, while we all know nothing happens without Rama's knowledge.
technotronica@reddit
I've come to realize that nothing really changes. The way our countries are ruled is inherently stemming from the mentality of our people. When reading about medieval south-slavic history I've come to realize how the exact same political power struggles and feuds are dealt in the exact or very similar manner. It's just a different packaging, mirroring the era. I guess this is how humans function everywhere. Just look at how China is ruled, it's the same principle like 2000 year ago. Same style.
CilpKonn@reddit
I couldn't agree more with your take. Tracing the origins of ruling dynasties and how they always find themselves in power is very eye-opening. Unfortunately, many people don't realize this...
Nux556@reddit
A good fact to summarize it all : Albania became the first fourth world country after he entered the full isolation of Albania due to his paranoia, paving the way for today North Korea and many nowadays African countries in terms of prosperity, corruption and development 🙂
Ada_Kaleh22@reddit
Very. Most people couldn't even get a passport, endemic corruption, etc
Antique_Birthday6380@reddit
Literally the mildest things of that regime compared to what it was really like lol
Ada_Kaleh22@reddit
bro I went with what I knew for sure, and I didn't get anything wrong here. you didn't go far enough whatever dude
Antique_Birthday6380@reddit
And i didn’t said that you were wrong. I don’t know why are you getting angry for this. That regime denied the most fundamental human rights: freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion (the only country in the world to enforce atheism both de jure and de facto). It destroyed places of worship and buildings of historical importance, abolished private property, and left Albania among the poorest countries in the world due to the inefficiency of a centralized economy and the country’s complete isolation.
There were numerous prison camps, with many people imprisoned or killed as opponents of the regime. Food, medicine, and clothing were rationed for most of its existence, among many other hardships.
Do you get it now? You’re probably not even Albanian, which is why something like being denied a passport may not seem like the worst thing to ever happen.
Eversivam@reddit
Akoma ankohen brezat qe e kan kalu ate sistem [nga fshatrat te pakten] qe skan pas buke per te ngrene, lene kto te tjerat. Katuni hante buke misri dhe nuk ju lejonte te hanin buke gruri aspak. Dhe nuk behej fjale me pas as dhe nje pule ne shtepi, lere gjera te tjera. Edhe qumshti ishte me nje rracion qesharak saqe nenat nuk i ushqenin dot bebat sic duhej, e jo me per ti ngopur.
(ps. vertet disa kan pas pula, por kan qen fshehurazi, nje raportim dhe ai qe kishte perfundonte ne burg gjith jeten duke punuar si skllav neper mina apo pune te renda te tjera, keshtu vuajti xhai i babit, por sa e sa te tjere kan vuajtur ngjashem apo me keq)
Vetem spiunat dhe servilat e kerkojne ate sistem.
Ada_Kaleh22@reddit
thank you!
Personal_Physics_525@reddit
The passport thing wasn't really exlusive to Albania though. Most commie countries did that to stopnthe bleed.
SeaMobile8471@reddit
The thing is the passport is not an exclusive term of travelling abroad. You needed a passport to also move within the country. Tirana was a city that you had to have a real, consolidated and approved permit to come visit, with leisure not being part of those reasons. Even the high end area was a no go zone.
i_getitin@reddit
I guess you have to have a very broad Interpretation of “commie” to make such a statement. In Socialist Yugoslavia, people didn’t have a hard time getting a passport and travelling throughout the world.
Ada_Kaleh22@reddit
that's the comparison. certainly compared to China Albania might be seem quaint
urineblonde_@reddit
As a non-Albanian, after visiting Bunker Museum and House of Leaves… it is beyond imagination. Here is a photo from House of Leaves:
TheLichsField@reddit
The prisoners:
Ujemegaz@reddit
Not a single jew was handled in Albania. And believe it or not, it was because National Front exponents did not agree with what was happening and even rejected the German request to assist them in any way. It is all proven, and Mit'hat Frasheri, Xhafer Deva etc figures are already being rehabilited. But the truth is that our leadership, presidents, premiers, ministers, MP-s, mayors you name it, no longer give a shit about ww2. Whether partizans were heros, no one will care, because their stories will seem made up and fake after the brutality that followed.
Most of executed by the communists were not even National Front.
p0rc0r0550@reddit
Don't ask here. We Albanians don't know anything it, you should ask the demi-gods at r/TankieTheDeprogram because apparently all we know is CIA propaganda according to them. The only thing that we have, are stories from our parents and relatives but that's CIA propaganda.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
"We Albanians" is not a thing, Albanians have different opinions and you can even see it here in the comment section.
p0rc0r0550@reddit
Wait so you're telling me that in millions of people, there are different opinions about a topic? That cannot be true.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Im telling you that "we Albanians" and "tankies" on some sub are not groups that are in disagreement here.
fucer_who_loves_cats@reddit
This fkers regime executed my Uncle and imprisoned my Dad in literal hell(spac) for 8 years. The most ridiculous thing that totally nullified all of the regime wrongdoing was that the lists of the spies,agents,policemen who murdered tortured their own patriots never went public.
holymissiletoe@reddit
very, the kids were trained to fight with sharp sticks in event of foreign invasion.
no one was exempt
mrvisi007@reddit
Very harsh but what’s worse are the consequences that still shape the society today. As the Russian sociologist (Aleksandr Zinovyev) puts it, totalitarian society evolve to the so called Homo Sovieticus. A sociological term describing the conformist, materialist, passive, indifferent to corruption, state-dependent individual, who have social apathy, envy and distrust to others and still practicing doublespeak.
Dizzy_Sympathy196@reddit
We know this very well in Hungary. The irony is that they now vote to the fascist far-right. A bunch of people without any moral. And 3x years is absolutley not enough to solve this problem. I'm sure we (post-communist countries) all should make bigger efforts to learn this democracy thing and to enforce it at any price.
Boysenberry_Boring@reddit
pro-state (pun intended) “scientists” in Russia claim that it’s the western governments who are working on altering a human genome to create people for serving. very ironic after looking at the majority of russians right now
holyrs90@reddit
Or maybe we just dont have leaders? The whole world lacks leaders, all are just a bunch of rating chasers incompetent trash with no vision of the future, it has nothing to do with ppl
mschuster91@reddit
Welcome to the modern-day America, eh?
kyzylkhum@reddit
that's also modern-day Turkey
Own_Information3154@reddit
Tyrant, no foreign power made the Albanians suffer under their rule like Envers Clan did
Apolon6@reddit
Visit the bunker museum once if you ever go to Tirana. Really good description of the brutal conditions the country went through. Made me respect the people there more.
Erwin_Rommel22@reddit
photo from there
Forward_Young2874@reddit
Didn't they just burn his house down a few weeks ago?
FrancAlb@reddit
Just a couple of fireworks. That house is more like a cultural centre now.
EccentricCantelope@reddit
After the bunker museum, visit the House of Leaves. You'll see how pervasive and inescapable surveillance was during that time, and how thoroughly Hoxha had all of Albanian society under his thumb.
technotronica@reddit
Here is a docu about the Segurimi and their methods
https://youtu.be/ygCns2LBRd8?si=Ygd8vKqVNTzDp6cc
LarsMatijn@reddit
BunkArt #2 was where I went and the House of Leaves straight after.
When my friend and me walked the street after we were silent for a good bit, and especially when you see the older generation it makes you think.
SkibidiDopYes@reddit
It was so bad that some labeled it as the Worlds first "4th World country". So yeah, pretty bad.
Competitive_Bus4311@reddit
Ehhh he was a complex figure from my view. I mean like he was brutal. But he did educate the population and even did increase it. Vaccinated the population. And made our neighbours who had habit of invading and genociding us think twice. Even when albania collapsed from the pyramids schemes and the country was in chaos our neighbours did not attack XHAXHI enver had trained the population from children to eldery men how to use guns and left many. And he reversed the culture genocide the ottomans had done on us sooo.
CypriotGreek@reddit
I was told by people coming in the 90s that they couldn’t even pray for things to get better as that would also be a punishable offense.
I guess that’s pretty fucking bad.
Greekdorifuto@reddit
I remember one time during my military service I was patrolling with an Albanian and he was telling me stories that his father told him about his time in the Albanian army and generally life in Albania during Hoxha
CypriotGreek@reddit
Yeah, me too. I had an Albanian buddy at the start of my military service and he told me about how they smuggled him at age 1 in the 90’s out of the country into Greece in a box inside a taped off van. To do that stuff, shit must’ve been crazy.
andreacro@reddit
If you were poor elsewhere, albania was the “at least im not poor like that”.
EneoPlays@reddit
The crazy think is he ddo such a good job in isolating information, even to this day my dad and his friends his age around 50 believe that there were not many prosecutions and arrests based on stupid things hell they still say oh we miss me , my grandparents generation is a bit different they kinda cheated their way through communism regime they were born into it yes but they were born to people had a more open viewpoint post enver hoxha.
Antique_Birthday6380@reddit
Never choose a leader who is either an ideological, an idiot, or both.
TheReal_Elite@reddit
Last time I checked, dictators aren’t chosen, they forcefully put themselves there.
Antique_Birthday6380@reddit
Well, sometimes they are chosen too, like Chavez or even that painter who invaded half of Europe.
dont_tread_on_M@reddit
He wasn't chosen. Albania simply happened to fall under the soviet sphere of influence when lines on a map were drawn. Albanian communists were neither popular nor strong enough to take power by themselves without soviet and yugoslav backing.
Antique_Birthday6380@reddit
The Soviets didn’t really care about Albania or the Albanian communists at all, they didn’t even recognize Albania’s democratic government. The only ones who actually helped the Albanian partisans were the British and especially the Yugoslavs, the latter even brought Hoxha to power.
After 1944, they carried out massive propaganda campaigns, particularly in rural areas, promising prosperity and development. Poor, illiterate villagers believed, and supported them, and the rest is history.
This issue is much more complicated than you think.
MrArmedRobbery@reddit
this guy sent albania back to the stoneage
Cautious-Age-6147@reddit
sure, it was in a startrek settings before him
MrArmedRobbery@reddit
alright, he sent albania from stoneage to the pre big bang era
Cautious-Age-6147@reddit
I wouldn't bet on that, communists usually significantly upgrade society. But the liberal scum talk shit about them.
LarsMatijn@reddit
Let's put it this way. Hoxha was such a nightmare that both the Soviets and the CCP got tired of his actions.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
You mean he did not sold out his ideals like they did?
Cautious-Age-6147@reddit
no, he was quite the okay leninist and the others betrayed hom
Barbak86@reddit
It wasn't startreck but during the 30', my grandfather that worked as an elementary teacher, had almost the double income of what teachers have now (adjusted for inflation). Granted, back then if you worked as a teacher, the state would send you wherever they needed you, so it was very strict, but the dude lived pretty well.
35BCx1405AD@reddit
Life was better as an ottoman villager than the psychopath Shithole that he left the country in.
I’m not gonna waste my time explaining it to a Serb to be honest, but the fact that we thought we could ever be communist brothers with you guys was insane, I mean, look how that ended in the 90s and how it’s going now.
But if we never embraced communism, and instead unified with democracy, and became beneficiaries of the Marshall plan, every aspect of our national DNA would’ve changed for the better. We also wouldn’t get any cool liberals like you mocking the pain he sent us through, because we didn’t have “Star Trek”.
Adventurous-Cat-7567@reddit
neighbourhood nations were always at war with each other across whole of history, don't take it too personal...
Cautious-Age-6147@reddit
sure
Krasniqi857@reddit
better then what he left
f1fan6890@reddit
Enver Hoxha is our enemies' masterpiece.Basically sold out every albanian outside of Albanias borders,made the ones left inside Albania suffer,set the nation back decades and the after effects of his traitorous ideology are still showing 40 years after his death.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
lmao what?
How did he sold out every Albanian outside of Albanian borders?
He set nation back decades? Most Albanians could not even read and write before Hoxha.
Ironic calling his ideology traitorous when current regime literally sold out Albania.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
Communist dictators were all worthless piles of shit, but this guy was the most Borat of them all.
TheReal_Elite@reddit
My parents and a huge part of my extended family (Some identify as Serbs, and some as Montenegrins) had to live under his regime, and what did they say?
Absolutely fucking horrible, my mother told me how he would kill anyone if he got in his way, Albanians included, and one of my great grandfathers from my father’s side was sent to a concentration camp by the regime, why? Because he was caught crossing himself before eating, and returned unrecognized.
My great uncle from my father’s side, who served in the Albanian army, managed to escape Albania during his regime and fled to Canada.
The moment communism in Albania ended and the borders to Montenegro (Yugoslavia at the time) opened, my family couldn’t have been anymore happier, but they left Albania at the worst time ever since this was during the start of the Yugoslav Wars (10-day War, Croatian War for Independence), and because of the country being under sanctions, my great grandmother from my mothers side decided to go back to Albania, which to this day is where she resides, + I’ve been to Albania many times before just so my family can visit her, so I’m no stranger to the country)
Because of the communist regime in Albania, my parents don’t even have a high school degree because they never went to high school, not because they didn’t want to, but because they couldn’t, and thanks to that, my Mother has no job, and my father has been working construction ever since he was 13 years old.
Not only that, but a shit ton of surnames that weren’t Albanian in origin were albanianized, my original surname is Ceklič, and my legal surname today? Cekliq, father included, and guess what, my great uncles legal surname is Ceklaj.
My mother’s original surname is Djinovic, and her legal surname today? Gjinoviq.
I swear I’m not trying to show any biasness here given my family background, but this right here just goes to show how horrible his regime was, and Albania to this day is still recovering from its communist past.
Barbak86@reddit
Let me tell you a story.
The uncle of a friend of mine was involved in the protests of 1981 in Kosovo, where the people demanded the elevation of the status of Kosovo from an Autonomous Province to a Republic. After the protests were crushed, the dude went in hiding in Albania.
First they held him for months in isolation, suspecting that he is a Yugoslav Agent... After months he was cleared, they settled him somewhere and got him a job in some factory.
One day while eating in the Factory Mensa, the dude said "life is quite boring here". He was sent for almost 8 years in a work camp/prison, for agitation... He got free when the communist system fell...
That's how life was in Hoxhaist Albania.
Beneficial-War-1429@reddit
We also had similiar situation. From 1945 to 1960s, everyone who said anything bad about Tito and party or was even just reported for saying(i.e. someone says in police station "my neighbour said that and that about Tito") would be sent to Goli Otok(prison in modern-day Croatia) in harsh conditions
RadiantMarsupial-@reddit
that's bullshit though.
AdBrilliant3713@reddit
Very true both ways. I have family in Albania that were persecuted for listening to Italian radio stations. And my aunt in Yugoslavia (Macedonia ) was jailed and interrogated (bitten up) for reading books that the Yugoslav government deemed inappropriate.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
My boyfriend's mother is a Greek from Albania. Half her family did prison,more specifialy, EVERY male in her family did prison.
Another neighbour near our house (also a Greek from Albania) said that even if one of your close relatives were in prison, finding a decent job was difficult.
Ujemegaz@reddit
There were no "decent" jobs. And state would set you up either way, whether you agreed or not. If you had an education, you would work on the field that you graduated, and sent to whatever place there was need for such proffession. Teachers, medics, and engineers were considered esteemed jobs, but the drawback was working in remote places. If you had the right connections, you could return to your hometown soon. If you were obedient with party connections, probably next stop was bigger city or Tirana.
I think you were told made up stories, because in no scenario "all males" went to prison.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
So there were decent jobs.I was speaking in context.
Literally, there wasn't a male in the family that wasn't imprisoned at some point in their life - cousins, uncles , even her father was detained for a time.
A neighbour talking shit about you to a police officer or someone in the Communist party and your social credit went to shit.
Why the hell would they make that up? What could they possibly get now , 40 years later?
Old-Cardiologist2853@reddit
BS story.I loge how when albanians migrated to Greece in '90s were so complexed and made up stories to have the empathy of greeks.First denying nationality(poverty and ignorance are cruel) due of greek state policy and exaggerating how things in reality were in the country back on '90s.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Man , they are Greek, what the fuck are you yapping about?
sonicc_boom@reddit
Yes
Tymon85@reddit
It was Europe's North Korea basically...
No-Search3016@reddit
Well from what I heard from my family it was pretty bad and you could trust nobody back then. My father has even been arrested once for exactly no reason but walking in the streets of Shkoder. Thankfully they did nothing to him and released him after few hours but yeah that’s pretty crazy and I think that period really created some PTSD traumas in Albanians, for example my parents always told me since I was a kid “There are no friends in this world” or “Don’t trust anyone” because back then it was so fucked up whatever you could have said your friends or even family members might have reported you in some way to the regime authorities. For example my father again, when he was a teenager, one day told his friends “The bread seems hard today” after receiving his ration of bread (the bread and other food was distributed by the regime in small rations because we were so damn poor) and one of his friends reported him, the guards then interrogated my father about that and “kindly” told him to not give such comments anymore, now just imagine what would happen for more “important” issues.
On top of that the extreme isolationism really left Albania so far back behind and today we are one of the poorest countries in Europe because of that, maaany Albanians left the country after the fall of the regime and even today there are not many opportunities hence youngsters are still leaving, corruption is high since forever, etc. Only in recent years the tourism is booming and we are getting a little bit of recognition but we might have been a little “Croatia-Switzerland” combo for decades now, with more Albanians living in and maybe having better opportunities, better infrastructure, better job market and better international relations with other countries.
The only positive thing from that period honestly is that it kind of made us to not give a fuck about other people’s religion.
NoReportedTaxes@reddit
He was quite the fan of Stalin and you saw that in his policies. Each time he broke off, a clean up happened. Religion got banned. Nobody could enter or leave without permission. He really tried to make the place self sufficient by any means. The steel factory in elbasan is the best example. Very polluting and energy hungry.
Many call him the bunker lunatic but if you imagine yourself in his position it made sense. He played every card till he got nobody left to rely too after breaking off of Yugoslavia, Soviets, China. The west constantly send spies to get rid of him but all of them got caught. He was expecting an incoming invasion, for a good reason. The people had to pay for it though.
Vertebruv@reddit
Although the paranoia with the neighbors invasion was understandable - what he did with his state police , including the torture chambers and internment camps for his own citizens, was not understandable at all.
I would agree that he was heavily influenced by Stalin, but the terrors of Hoxha's ruling were probably felt more directly by all Albanian citizens due to the smaller size of the country allowing the government to easily control most of the citizens by using multiple operating centers and citizen police as opposed to the rule of Stalin which was more indirect in it's manner. Not that Stalin wouldn't want it the same way, but that level do control was just unmanageable on that scale.
NoReportedTaxes@reddit
No no, I agree totally. He was a piece of shit. The bunker thing just get ridiculised by outsiders because "he prepared for no reason". As if the west didnt have a history of disposing socialist governments.
Cough Cough south america
Dependent-Lab-5488@reddit
Mehmet Shehu and Kadri Hazbiu were running the show, but after their execution, the Sigurimi simply fell apart.
tejanaqkilica@reddit
Apa pa pa pa. You mean, after Mehmet Shehu realized he had lost the ways of the revolution, discovered he had become an anti communist and a traitor to the people and because of that, decided to kill himself. Wink wink
Dependent-Lab-5488@reddit
Comrade Shehu has realized that Albania was reaching a dead-end. Hence, he wanted at least a rapprochement with West Germany and France. Late Nexhmije (may she rest in peace) overused her VCR by watching his last moments.
DaMFdownThaStreet@reddit
He was so obsessed witb Stalin to the point he made a book about the encounters he had with him and even included "Geography of the Soviet Union" as a school subject. Once he ended the relations with USSR they removed the subject from the education system. Obviously that's the least of the horrible things he did but I think it's worth sharing
Adventurous-Cat-7567@reddit
Geography of the Soviet Union as a school subject hahahaahahaahahah OMG
AlbanianCatholic@reddit
It was the North Korea of Europe. It was terrible.
Even today, the statement "The walls have ears" has stuck from the communist era.
You were not safe in your own bedroom. Anything that could be interpreted as against the regime would get you trialed and then either tortured for years, or tortured and killed. People starved to death and weren't allowed to complain nor pray, as prayer too was made illegal. I do not wish such a system on anyone, and everywhere where such a system exists, the system must be overthrown.
determine96@reddit
The thing is, I mean I'm most likely not enough acquainted with the matter but from what I have read about the history of Albanians and their customs, their codes of honor and such, some may have been killers, bandits and working with the Ottoman authorities, but never doing sneaky stuff like that.
I remember once I was reading about a Bulgarian "voivoda" in Macedonia and how he went into a wealthy Albanian house and the guy who was with them (the author- American who traveled with him) got concerned because that Albanian guy was close to the locay "Bey", so his was afraid that he may betray them, set a trap, but the voivoda just laughed and said to him - "You don't know them, even if their biggest enemy comes as a guest their tribal honor oblige them to defend him with his life, so if a Ottoman "Askeri" come right now, he will be the first at the door with a gun exposing himself to save us".
So this I guess show what a maniacal dictatorship can turn people in to..
avdaxumaxu@reddit
Communist rule had little to do with northern albanian honour and tribal codes, that was by the mid 20th century mostly a gheg thing. Communist rule was a southern albanian tosk thing - boosted up by non albanians and yugoslav communists. Tosks had all the power and were vastly overrepresented in all relevant power structures - they still are to this day, though to a lesser extent. Most of the repression happened in the north during communist rule where they essentially destroyed albanian tribal customes. They even partly banned northern albanian intellectuals like gjergj fishta.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Many from the north and central Albania joined the partizans. The strugle was real, and communism was popular during ww2, as people were naive and though they would dine with gold spoons.
avdaxumaxu@reddit
That's propaganda. Most deaths happenend in the north and over 80% of the upper strata were tosks or of non albanian origin. I advice you to have a look at the communist leadership and their names. It's not that difficult. Also who they killed etc.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Many "tosk" joined the National Front also. Check their names and you would realized that the "upper strata" were "tosk". And i will never understand what "tosk" implies. It is just a dialect, not a people. The area known as Toskeria stretches between Berat and Gjirokaster, there is Laberia along the Ionian, and there is Myzeqe, frim Berat to Shkumbin river. Either way you look at it, the "Tosk" which you imply southern Albania, had more exponents and fighters on both sides of the fence. The central Albania did not see much fighting because the people said that "Germans aren't breaking a single roof tile", implying that it is not our war. Plus, it is not like we are that patriotic. We like raki. The north was more anti communist, because of their customs, and catholic church also played a role, that is why communism was harsh on them. Also, the north was not sympathetic to communism because of Yugoslav campaigns against them, but "north" is too general here also. Central Albania takes a big part of "north" and there was strugle here also, whether you know about it or not. When an outsider shows up armed to the teeth, it is customary to attack. Ideology no longer matter in such instance.
Communism was what it was, but we should not be ashamed to admit that the ideas were popular among many circles in Albania, especially at the brink of ww2 and such ideas spread during ww2 even more.
avdaxumaxu@reddit
Tosk are a people, part of the albanian group, just like prussian was part of the german group. It is wrong to claim it was equally popular in all cities. It is wrong to claim it was equally bad for all albanians. Some got it worse than others and those somes were the ghegs mostly. It is no coincidence that the language got standardized based on tosk, that next to all relevant leaders were tosk, that most brutal repression occured in the north and that massacres such like the one against the albanians in tivar was supported by the communist scum around enver. It is no coincidence that just by having a look at the electoral maps since 1991, the heirs of the communist scum - ps - still get mostly voted in the south. Arshi pipa was right, whether you like it or not.
Ujemegaz@reddit
We liked or not, they won the war, and got to decide and the rest of us had to suck it up. We can't change the past. It is funny, that 35 later, we still cry aboit communism and ww2.
avdaxumaxu@reddit
Buddy, because they fundamentally changed the trajectory of our nation - for the worse. How can we solve our issues without knowing their causes? That's as if a doctor is trying to medicate a disease without knowing the cause of the disease - it won't work.
avdaxumaxu@reddit
I will never forgive enver and the tosks for what happened between 1944 and 1991. The 90s in albania were a direct result of his rule. The collaps of honour, integrity and any type of morals. Fuck, albanians kidnapped the women of their own people, some of them even teenage girls, to sell them in italy, greece and co. Shit like that didn't happen in ks - for example. We are far too lenient, far too blind to the damage the albanian communists have done to us. Not just our economy, but to our very soul.
determine96@reddit
Yeah, interesting.
I mean even the today's Albanian language is based on a Tosk dialects if I'm not mistaken.
In Bulgaria there also was something similar but not on that scale.
Our language is based on the eastern dialects and some of the intellectuals who wanted to introduce more words from the western parts (mainly Macedonians) were labeled as separatists and sometimes mocked.
But from the other side later the whole "Macedonian struggle" was romanticized and also shop folklore is respected, so as I said this separation wasn't that harsh for the most part.
Ujemegaz@reddit
According to Fishta, the Prizren League failed because of this code, ironically. The Turkish envoy from the Sultan, offended one of the local beys during the negotiations, so he pledged to kill him to save his honor. The bey that hosted the envoy pledged to protect him even when leaving his houses, in accordance with such code. A mayhem happened where two beys ended up in feud for the honor, and the author Fishta describing this, called out the old ways and said that they do no longer apply to modern events.
AlbanianCatholic@reddit
What you wrote above about our traditional customs is correct.
By traditional Albanian law, if someone asks for refuge in your home, you must offer it and while someone is under your protection, you must prioritize their lives even over your own, this is why Albania was the only country to increase its Jewish population tenfold during WW2.
Albanian traditional law was heavily cracked down during the communist dictatorship as well however, so although being welcoming to guests is still socially expected and mistreating guests is socially denounced, the traditions themselves are not actively practiced nor protected.
SwimmingHelicopter15@reddit
Exactly the same with Romania. Ceasuscu visited North Korea and said this is what I want. Same here with people rating on each other, some even lied for benefits.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
Was Bucurešt designed by Causesku will from Korea? I bet a maniac mind with power.
technotronica@reddit
I know this may sound weird. And it may be. But since religion was basically abolished, how far did they go? Were muslim circumcisions etc performed or was that illegal too? Antropologically and psychologically interesting cause that one is a deeply rooted "identity" thing. I have former communists in my family that performed the ritual on their boys...
Deep-Ad4183@reddit
Damn regimes.
Thankfully, the Balkans were spared this abomination, and thankfully Greece never had to endure it.
BetImaginary4945@reddit
Depends who you talk to, what their age is and their priorities in life during his time. On average he improved a barbaric nation who was practicing blood fewds and beheadings to one where it was the envy of US and Soviets for decades to the point where both blocs embargo'ed it. In the end this nation was self reliant on self grit but couldn't thrive due to lack of trade and innovation from the embargo.
After it opened to "Democracy" everything that he build got destroyed or stolen. For example, there's no rail system in Albania anymore when during his time there was a thriving free rail and comprehensive manufacturing etc...
Ujemegaz@reddit
What a joke of a comment. Let me guess, you are a communist.
Fede-m-olveira@reddit
I'm not Albanian but He is the only Eastern European political leader of the second half of the 20th century I can respect, yes he made a lot of mistakes and some bad things but at least he was not a puppet of foreign powers and showed a deep compromise with the revolution.
demonnet@reddit
Every story I was told about the regime is more fucked up than the previous. An old man I know had a plumbing company and he went to do some kind of project in Albania at the time and he saw three dudes lynching a priest in a tree and using him for target practice. Another old guy, a customer in a store I worked at, half his was caved in because they beat him within an inch of his life. He didn't even do anything they just got the wrong guy.
Ujemegaz@reddit
The priest part sounds funny. Probably a gossip Greeks spread to make story have more impact since you believe priests.
Old-Cardiologist2853@reddit
Nice sci fi stories
Pediculuspubis@reddit
he destroyed a lot of cultural monuments, including churches and mosques and even some buildings from the Middle, Old and older than the Roman Empire centuries.. also, besides the Albanians, he Albanianized everything that was not Albanian. Like the Turks, Greeks, Cincari, Italians, Jews, Serbs and other peoples who were there at the time. Those who did not want to accept had to leave. a mixture of Stalin and Kim Jong Un from the Balkans.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Ancient churches and medieval mosques were spared. Where did you get Turks from? Even in Ottoman period no Turks settled here, they were garnizoned in the main fortifications and left afterwards.
Greeks had a disegnated region known as minority zone, and had special status. Their attire and folk songs were preserved by the state, and the had native language lessons. You could acuse Hoxha of everything, but assimilating Greeks is not it.
Jews in Albania came mostly during ww2. Even the previous ones had come mostly during the interwar period. Unlike in many countries, they were not discriminated against. Of course, religion was banned, but they had no excessive pressure like the Albanians had.
Hoxhaist rule was not nationalistic. If anything, Albanian catholics probably suffered the most. Forty or seventy priests were tortured to death, and there were stages of uprisings and many were executed without trial in the north.
Sea-Supermarket8391@reddit
i’ve never heard anyone in our family being sent to prison for snitching or anything and everyone worked in factories mainly. mom says in mid 80s towards the 90s poverty was reaally bad and due to the lack of food they had to eat stuff like yogurt and bread (pershesh me kos). funniest thing mom told me about him that whenever he visited southern albania for vacation, the tv would have more channels and work better lol
gpetrov@reddit
Curious how many people still think it was better back then and want those times to return?
Krasniqi857@reddit
My Father told me a story once: there were two albanians living in communist albania, a man and his wife, both worked jobs and raised kids, but they never shared secrets in fear of the other being a spy/secret police.
He told me, thats how much distrust the regime instilled in his people and how they pitched them all against themselfes. He told me our enemies as albanians in kosovo were clear, thats why we could trust one another, while for the albanians in albania the enemy was hidden and could have been everywhere.
The regime culturally destroyed albania, leaving nothing but a broken country, economically and spiritually for its legacy. The communists should have never won.
Icy-Engineering9912@reddit
Yes, my mum has told me of stories exactly like this between her family. They were so scared to even light candles or seem joyful on Christmas because of fear their family would inform the authorities.
DDzxy@reddit
In my imagination, living was like in the game Papers, PLease
Icy-Engineering9912@reddit
He was a complete nutcase.
My parents and grandparents had such a hard life because of his brutal regime. I wouldn’t even know where to begin explaining what they went through.
The impact did end with him. Albania is still decades behind other eu countries all thanks to him.
Cynicallyoptimistik@reddit
There was a poet that got sent to 20 years of prison because he wrote a poem comparing green peppers to steak.
If you went to the grocery store, the store could be empty but you would have to pretend like it wasn’t because anything critical would send you to jail.
SeaMobile8471@reddit
Let’s just say that in that period the bonds of family that were part of Albanian identity for centuries took a big shock, with people distrusting even their partners, siblings and every single person. This is a plague that has haunted us for decades now and has resulted in the most distrusting society in the world, not against foreigners but against Albanians themselves.
It will heal in time but some decades have to pass in order for the distrust to subside.
Grounds4TheSubstain@reddit
Any more questions?
etanol256@reddit
wow impressive; you connected two things without actually showing any connection.
Frosty-Surround-3199@reddit
It is a huge connection. The totalitarian regime made a generation paranoid.
Velkyn0@reddit
Not only that, it also made them spies to each other. All I know from that generation stick their nose to other people personal lives and are curious to know everything you do... Even the smallest things.
Sea_Bag3184@reddit
Isn't it more probable that the rise of organized crime after the fall of communism caused this huge level of distrust? I was in Albania about 6 times and people say that sometimes people get shot in the streets in criminal revenge acts.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Enver Hoxha's son was involved in international traffic and production, go figure.
Antique_Birthday6380@reddit
His nephew*
dont_tread_on_M@reddit
You were literally told by the state in Albania that "your family members snitched on you" even if they didn't, in order to make you trust others less. You were told daily that your allegiance belongs to the state and the communist party, not the people you loved or cared about. Communism deeply planted distrust in people.
1984 levels of bs were going on in communist Albania
albardha@reddit
I don’t know when you were here, but Albania is very safe.
caesarj12@reddit
Imagine yourself in 1970-80s Albania. You are middle class. Imagine you have 3 kids because Enver Hoxha has 3 kids.
TV? Yes one of your neighbors has one. You gather around at his house at 20:00 together will other neighbors to see some programs, usually the news or some festival.
Fridge? Maybe if you got approved first. 2 of your neighbors have been waiting 4 years for one. If you have the right connection you can bribe the guy who approves you having the fridge.
Washing machine? Nah, only the high ranking party guys have those.
Tomorrow is a new day. You wake up at 4 o clock in the morning to put your bottle on the line. You are lucky today. You are 5th in line for milk. The one at 8th place not so much. No milk for him today as there is only a little there. At least there is enough bread though. No ration there.
You managed to convince the guy handling the meat to give you 2kg of meat. He is doing this because you promised him that you would convince your boss comarade to take his wife for the new opened position at accounting. If you deliver he has promised that he will save 1 kg for you every week.
You get to work. You studied at the Agricultural University and you are an Agronomist. This year production has been good. Everyone has a job but to get ahead in life you must have a university degree. Otherwise the state chooses what you do. Even at your job they chose where you get to work so you were assigned to work far away from home because the spots that were close were taken. You like your job. You get to hang out with farmers. Also coffee breaks in the afternoon with your colleagues are fun.
When you return home after work you take your wife and kids and go out for the afternoon xhiro. It is one of your favorite things to do. Tirana feels alive during that time. You wonder whether it is like this in other Mediterranean countries but you will never know because you can't leave Albania.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
As a non Albanian and having no clue who this guy is I feel like I qualify as an expert in this field and I think this guy looks friendly and surly there must been some minor miscommunication and misunderstanding and surly he couldn’t had been that bad.
Ujemegaz@reddit
There is a joke. The driver of Enver Hoxha, as a sign of protest started to spread a pile of shit over the bread in his presence. So, Enver Hoxha, shocked, asked him: what do you think you are doing my son? And the driver responded :- we nothing to eat our leader, so i will just spread shit over bread. And Enver Hoxha responds:- spread it thinner my son, children are hungry as well 🤣
Krasniqi857@reddit
totally mate, nothing bad happened in communist albania
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Glad I could bring sense and reason to this situation with my disinformation and ignorance
Krasniqi857@reddit
we balkan folk are masters at this mate 🤝
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
Non-Albanian commenting.
I’ve heard bad things. All of Eastern Europe was different than Albania. They had the worst communism by far. It was all of the bad stuff, none of the redeeming stuff. To Yugoslavians Albania was this “god forbid” land, as I’m sure it was to the rest of Eastern Europe.
They weren’t even Soviet aligned. They were just isolated. Correct me if I’m wrong but it was almost like nobody went in, and nobody went out.
Such-Win4653@reddit
I dont think neither do I expect that non-albanians(even the albanians of diaspora) to understand what an evil monster this guy here was! The enemy of his own people,the guy who build a system that mentally destroyed Albania for ever! His evilness didn't spare anyone,he build a system of servilism,you either worshipped him and his regime or else death/torture was your only choice because he may be one of the few people on this world that made GOD illegal! He banned all the religions, religious names and objects,he destroyed churches and mosques and turned them into military storage or even worse barns for animals! If his system doubted that you were against him,you would be guilty without a trial or at best with a made up trial either with fake witnesses or heavily interrogated and under pressure witnesses and even if that didn't worked out they would torture you until you were either dead by torture or admit to a "crime" you didn't commit! And the crimes weres mostly complaints for his regime,things like complaints about the lack of food on the market,lack of human rights or chaotic public transport,bad jokes or comments about him or people who worked for him, listening to foreign TV or Radio channels, mimicking or having hairstyles like famous world wide VIP! There is a trial in Youtube of three teenagers that were convicted for listening and being fans of Italian pop stars more specifically Celentano! Once you were convicted your whole family would suffer,they would get relocated into remote and far away areas,would be classified as enemy of the sistem and mostly they would have not the right to continue university because their biography was stained by you and a lot of times this was applied not only to close family but even relatives! God forbid you had in your family someone who fled the country(there were very few people) or tried to fled the country! They catched and killed two people trying to fled Saranda to Corfu at night by swimming,after killing them,they put their bodies on display on a police boat and circled the city bay for two days straight so people would understand the destiny of those trying to "escape" albania! The prisons camps were the most awful thing that has ever existed,once you were convicted for the "crimes" mentioned above you would be taken to one of those prison that had every condition and every mean for you that you wished you were dead! The torture system was harsh,the conditions were awful,the labour you had to do was terrible and a lot of people didn't make it out alive and to some extent their bodies were never found! Once you were in,there was no guarantee you would be treated as a human being anymore! A fucking bird had more rights than you,and you know the worst part? These prisons were full of convicts that once were intellectual, professors,writers,musicians, architects,priest etc etc! People that were supposed to be the backbone of the society were made to spent their life in a living hell just because they decided to speak against the system! Not to mention the heavy control in every field,art,schools and every part of life you could imagine his system was number one priority and if you dared not to worship it... Guess what? Prison,labor camps,torture etc!
DaMFdownThaStreet@reddit
It was awful. You could get executed or sent to labor camps for reading foreign books that didn't quite go well with the communist ideology. You could also get punished for studying the paintings of non-communist artists.
ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit
Yes!