In Bucharest there's a massive campaign to implement bollards on a lot of sidewalks. What kind of solutions have your cities implemented to stop/prevent cars parking on sidewalks, especially considering it's a very common practice around the Balkans?
Posted by SoulEkko@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 108 comments
In Bucharest there's a huge problem with cars parking everywhere. The city is simply asphyxiated by large volumes of endless cars, and in order to not assign police on basically every single street, it's just more practical to have bollards do the work.
ostrichConductor@reddit
I'd personally prefer a solution where government takes responsibility and builds underground parking areas, to address the problem with the ever increasing difficulty to find a parking spot in the (relatively) small Balkan cities, rather than being barred from parking in even more spots, but that's just me...
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
yeah, that's impossibl, it costs over 50k euros per spot to build one. It will be so expensive that people will still aprk for free outside
BogdanPradatu@reddit
I would implement a system where any citizen with a smartphone could generate fines. Take a photo, upload it in the app and you receive a percentage of the generated income, if the fine is validated.
You would only need an AI tool to comb through the cases and a couple of people to solve issued and watch over the automation.
Problem solved, now everyone has an incentive to keep the sidewalks clean.
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
because AI can't generate a picture of your car parked wrongly.....
Willing-Actuator-509@reddit
That's also very useful to prevent random drivers attacking Christmas markets in Europe.
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
our high usage of pork products detters that already
SpiritualPin692@reddit
In the UK police have nothing to do with parking offences. Local councils employ parking officers who walk around all day and issue fines to vehicles parked illegaly.
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
funny enough, we have somthing like that also, they don't do anithing either.
Puzzled-Smoke-6349@reddit
In my country, only the rich people can park on these spots. So average and poor people cannot afford to park their clunkers there, so the problem is solved for 90% of the population.
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
Wait, how come "only the rich" can park? As in they receive fines so they can afford to occupy the sidewalks often? Because if that's the case, at least the Town Hall is making money by milking the rich.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Basicly that, i guess. In Switzerland the fines are placed in proportion with income, but i doubt our state have so much capacities to implement such policies.
Previous-Coconut-420@reddit
Only for fines that require legal action. Misdemeanors are the same for everyone, parking without permission is usually 40-60 francs (around 43-63 euros), which means you will see many luxury and hypercars parked wherever.
fk_censors@reddit
The Swiss policy is quite unfair.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Why unfair. The amount of fine is written based on the wage or income. That seems somewhat fair.
fk_censors@reddit
Would you also consider it fair to impose prison sentences based on their income? The higher they earn, the longer the sentence?
reyesennn@reddit
Altu care a baut apa de la caine
devjohn023@reddit
Asta a băut cerneala 100%
PowerMoves1996@reddit
not the prison sentence, the bail amount should depend on the income
Odd_Increase_4551@reddit
Bro please shut up. People will think all romanians are stupid like you.
fk_censors@reddit
It's unfair because wages don't necessarily correlate to wealth. The very wealthy often have very little wages. The ones most likely to commit fineable offenses are statistically teenage or young males, who likely have very low or no wages on paper.
Tying punishment to wages punishes the middle class, and gives the low and high class extremes a pass, teaching them that there is no real punishment.
It's one of those ideas that sounds ok at first until you analyze it better. Social engineering rarely has the result people want it to have.
iSebastian1@reddit
Then add a fine that's a % of the car's original value as well, easy.
I can assure you the guy in the BMW X6 will not be parking in the same spot too many times after a 1000 euro fine.
Ov_Fire@reddit
It's not wage but income based, you can have 0 wage, but 10000s of income.
Downtown_Bus_9580@reddit
Hear me out, something that can blow your mind ( since you are romanian) you can just not break the law and you wont have to worry about how big a fine is. Fucking sidewalk parkers
beanVamGasit@reddit
If you are wealthy enough to be able to do that you most likely have a driver
SquareRare6425@reddit
Not particulary true... only if you have to step in front of a judge or an attorny. For minor violations such as parking or lightly speeding, the fine is always the same... for real stuff the fine is based on your income
vulpixvulpes@reddit
Is that because a parking fee, or people are fined for parking like that? Because that's already miles ahead of Romania/Bucharest. A lot of times police don't want to fine because "the car didn't bother anyone". One time I remember someone filed an online complaint (in sectorul 3 for my fellow Bucharesters) and the townhall response was that the poor drivers don't have parking spots and if the person insists on making complaints he will be get a fine for excessive complaints.
ZinbaluPrime@reddit
People with Q7s and X6s pay to the corrupted police not to be fined.
People with Puntos and Golfs are the ones that get the fines.
Visual_Hovercraft125@reddit
i will add that the control (fines) are once every 5-6 months. Maybe in the centre are more often, but at least in Mladost were as I said. In other cities like Varna such control is not existing sadly
vulpixvulpes@reddit
I see! I guess România is more democratic. No one gets fined because the police doesn't care! It's probably their own cars on the sidewalk.
Curious-Ask8199@reddit
Bollards work until someone brings an angle grinder. Fines are better but nobody enforces them.
Unlikely_Impact1451@reddit
Balkans? In Spain the park inside the roundabouts, on the driving lane right next to parked cars and on sidewalks side by side so no one else can cross. Somehow it’s positioned as a Balkan issue.
But in civilized countries the solution is simple : tow vehicle plus a hefty fine. You only need a few examples of strength and the rules are well followed.
But then again, what would you expect in terms of rules from Romania? Or Spain for that matter ?
Erchevara@reddit
Cars are towed in Bucharest, but it's just way too many of them. You'll probably see another car park in that same place while the tow truck is leaving.
SpiritualGanache2361@reddit
In Moscow they deployed tow trucks and foot patrol inspectors, and created an app for residents where they can photograph violators and receive a reward for each confirmed fine, something they can spend on city merchandise, public transport or paid parking.
NoSync22@reddit
There’s an app in Zagreb too, but certainly no incentives and the police doesn’t really have enough staff to follow up anyway. None of my entries seem to have made a difference so far.
SpiritualGanache2361@reddit
I think the key to the success was that the city created a special department dedicated exclusively to parking: it plans, develops, and manages parking, but it also owns tow trucks and has the authority to issue fines. Photos from the app are sent to them as well. So in the app, if the minimum photo requirements are met, the vehicle owner gets fined, and the user sees either a success message or an explanation of why their photo was not accepted. Bringing parking under control is one of the city’s major successes.
NoSync22@reddit
Yeah, I lived there in 2008/9 and when comparing to the last time I visited (2019, just before the country went full on fascist) the city had really peaked. Such a huge difference in just 10 years.
Relevant-Crab-8640@reddit
These bad bois is where it's at 👌
OnePalmOne@reddit
This is just an SUV pass through filter. The SUVs can park, everyone else cannot.
Erchevara@reddit
Nah, SUV drivers in big cities won't do anything that is even mildly made for off road cars.
You're severely overestimating SUV drivers' ability to use their car for anything other than the safe big metal box feeling.
Relevant-Crab-8640@reddit
Yep, but it still makes a day-night difference in most cases.
ImamTrump@reddit
This would encourage folk to park on the bollard
7amdrei7@reddit
The absolute best!
Ujemegaz@reddit
At least they look good, in Durres they placed some rusty cubicles.
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
Well, this is around the central area. On most areas they use cheaper metal ones, like these implemented a few days ago:
Lucifer_893@reddit
These suck, and a couple of years later they will all be bumped and bent. I like the small sphere ones, they are smaller, lower and more aesthetically pleasing.
Erchevara@reddit
I hate the small ones. They're harder to see, easier to randomly trip on, and I almost crushed my head in one when I was on my bike and lost control after hitting a curb.
They're also mostly put on the sidewalk, and make them even smaller and more unusable. Here is an example of one that is obviously dangerous after you go there once: https://maps.app.goo.gl/mCsULRxcEY972Uhr7
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
Actually there's worse, there are those made of plastic empty on the inside with a metal rod going through them, these are the ones that break easily.
Ujemegaz@reddit
It really had to be a 3 series, no surprises 🤣
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
A few days ago there was a Ferrari parked right smack on the tramway tracks, it got lifted, but there's a running joke, people are saying the Ferrari got removed from the tracks because it was blocking the BMWs from circulating on it. 😂
OptimusTron222@reddit
The rusty sidewalls in Durres can literally cur your tires lol😂
CommunicationTop8777@reddit
HOMOSEXUAL CANCER (AIDS)
smurfk@reddit
The campaign is to stop people from parking on the sidewalks. It's not even a question of certain areas. If there's a sidewalk and the car can get up on it, a car will get there. The fines are too small, and the process of applying them is cumbersome, so people just don't care about breaking the law.
Kilgoretrout123456@reddit
I think they look good but don't hold up in real life situations
Honestly, with those bollards we installed near our home in Australia, I wanna say the type matters less than the quality, and you just want something solid and safe, not just for looks
tejanaqkilica@reddit
It's a very easy problem to solve. Fines and a tow truck will do the trick. And if it doesn't, the city will get insanely rich by the money collected.
OnePalmOne@reddit
Not every city has a capacity to maintain the tow truck system, sadly. In my city, in addition to tow trucks, they have added a few mobile scanning units - special cars equipped with fancy cameras driving around the busiest areas for the entire day. Those help a lot, because the system is automated.
tejanaqkilica@reddit
Don't need to do it with public funding. You go private and share the fees/profits.
For a while in my hometown, people were terrorized to park outside of the parking spots or don't pay for parking, because the private company that was operating the public parking of the city, would show up in less than 5 minutes and tow your car away.
Ever since they kicked them out, the stupid horrible park everywhere has returned. A €10 ticket is not going to impact anyone. A €200 ticket plus at least 24h of not having your car and, will.
GoldenLiar2@reddit
I disagree, a private company will have incentives to tow whatever they can whenever they can, whether legitimate or not.
Just search reddit for horror stories from the US and what private towing companies do there.
tejanaqkilica@reddit
It's not very difficult to audit the private company. These are minor things that you can address in the process when drafting the contract.
For example, you can set a requirement that before any towing, the operator needs to take a picture for documentation purposes where it shows the violation itself and what was violated.
If you don't agree with the tow, that would happen regardless of private or public company.
fk_censors@reddit
The city doesn't have to maintain anything. Just contract it out.
OptimusTron222@reddit
The city planning retards caused those issues, they will be sued into the oblivion in case they even remotely try a strict policy
Hrevak@reddit
Plain simple fines and tow trucks easily solve this. Well, unless the entire society is a corrupt cesspool in which case people could also come with stone grinders and chop these bricks down.
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
You'd be surprised... 😂
You can see the removed bollards on the lower window on the right, they literally cut them out of the sidewalk.
brisetta@reddit
Damn, thats dedication. I almost respect it. Almost.
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
What's even funnier, when they get their car out, they put the bollards back in so they "save" the parking spot for whenever they get back.
Some people are just too much, even for me... 😂
ProteineJell-O@reddit
And also if you look at the plate number, the car belongs to the municipality
brisetta@reddit
Some people think the world revolves around them for sure!! Hahaha
Spirta@reddit
The solution should be to make some parking spaces. By the time I find a parking spot and walk to where I need to get, I could get there on foot from my home and be done already.
AndryCake@reddit
If this is true then there is no point driving. Just walk. The solution is that not everyone needs to drive all the time.
Spirta@reddit
I know people who would drive to work even though it would take them almost the same time as it does driving and finding parking.
JoTenshi@reddit
Noting…
Even if we did, they’d still find a way to park on the sidewalks…
Some call the police so they can write a citation and just maybe tow it but I’ve never seen a car getting towed…
thestoicnutcracker@reddit
Except in Greece at least wherever this has been implemented, I've seen no parking on top of the sidewalks.
Plus, in Greece, the traffic police has gone insane, especially in the last five months for some reason, they're out there writing fines to literally EVERYONE out of nowhere, even in cases, like my best friend, where he parked nowhere illegally, and they still wrote a fine to him, but thankfully it was cancelled.
JoTenshi@reddit
The laws keep getting strict and they’re being enforced much more often as things have been getting out of control.
Seatbelts, helmets, phones, that’s the main thing they’re looking out for lately.
As for illegally parking, from my experience, they ride around checking every morning until noon and sometimes evening, don’t count me on that.
thestoicnutcracker@reddit
Thing is, accidents have become much less than 30 years ago, and deaths from accidents much less. There's been a comparative increase compared to last year, but the roads are much safer than they were 3 decades ago. There's really no comparison.
The reason why measures are becoming strict is exactly because they're being implemented.
But at multiple instances, fines are imposed to many drivers even when there's no violation of traffic laws at all. That's why I said they have gone insane.
Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit
This is not accurate. The pavement railings installed by Avramopoulos although ridiculed at their time it was a major step for safer walking and no parking on major streets
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
We had the same problem for a long time. The thing is, politicians need courage to implement change, we had the same cowards because they didn't want to lose votes by hurting the car owners, therefore voter base.
The problem is that of "normalization": it's normalized to park everywhere, so someone has to have the balls to just use an entire election cycle (4 years) to implement a big change that will disturb the voter base, but it will de-normalize sidewalk parking (or any other measure that helps society).
It's just about people making bad habits, and like a diet, it's not pleasant, but it's necessary to rebalance the weight.
According_Warning968@reddit
In Belgrade they put metal ones during the day. People come and cut them during the night. Repeat.
Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit
Have you just considered fines?
faramaobscena@reddit
The municipality doesn’t want to fine them (for some reason, I don’t get it). They basically ignore them and if you report a car they will just issue a warning that is anulled later anyway.
Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit
that sounds quite corrupt mate
faramaobscena@reddit
Not even that, they don’t fine anybody. The municipality doesn’t want to “upset” the drivers because they are afraid of losing votes. In the meantime, they are losing the votes of all the sane people.
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
Processing img 7ntxy721emtg1...
Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit
don't get it sorry
fatbunyip@reddit
They added bollards, made parking fines more expensive (parking in handicap space 300eu, on pavement 100eu) and they got stricter with writing tickets. But also they made paying for parking easier with SMS and apps.
This is mainly in the city center though.
MrDilbert@reddit
Sorry for a tangential question, but (speaking from experience) who owns the company that produces and/or installs these bollards?
Downtown_Bus_9580@reddit
It's not that in Ro. The bollards + mount it's around 50 euro/pc
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
I thought those where to stop involuntary islamification by a speeding truck if you know what I mean
DeFranco47@reddit
"Christian" car dependent idiots kill more on the roads than Islam. So no
Odd_Increase_4551@reddit
Please ignore this idiot. Not all romanians are this stupid. (Bro shut the f up with this dumb shit)
Ujemegaz@reddit
Once, Iasked a coworker who prays on fridays if he had a category C driving licence.
RepairNo1818@reddit
I would just explode the cars, or pick them up n fine the ppl to get their cars back. A ton of money for the country that way till they learn
ThisIsLukkas@reddit
You know... in other countries the strategy is to make people choose a different transportation method. Putting up bollards isn't an answer for parking problems and traffic.
Aleksag@reddit
Im Belgrade they are removing pedestrian crossings at the city centre and putting literal fences around sidewalks so people physically can’t cross where they used to, fully fencing off the pedestrians. The fences also make protesting much harder, people have less space to run from police…
Here’s a nice article about it, it’s even worse than on the images, even though the article is new the images are a few months old:
https://www.masina.rs/biti-pesak-u-beogradu-danas-je-postao-ekstremni-sport-sta-se-desi-kad-se-sapic-proglasi-gradskim-urbanistom/
DogBrilliant8100@reddit
Damn, so they are americanizing walkable cities over there. Sad to hear.
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
Jeez... Sorry to hear man. These tactics are really despicable. Is there any chance to remove LabiaLips in the next elections after all the protests?
Aleksag@reddit
I hope so, the local elections that we just had were brutal… very violent. Even though SNS backed coalition won in every municipality even with their desperate tactics they lost significant number of votes, being surpassed by students led movement in some places and relying on coalition to win. These were all very rural places.
I believe V*cic’s end is near but I don’t think he will admit defeat even if it happens and step down peacefully. But for the first time in my life I’m hopeful and believe the change is coming
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
If Orban loses the elections in a week I think the whole ruzzky foothold in this side of Europe will weaken and that might provide enough momentum in Serbia to remove DuaPusseLippa as well. Fingers crossed! 🤞
cameliap@reddit
We implement a similar solution. I approve on principle. However, I object to having any obstacles on the sidewalks. It's not the pedestrians preventing vehicles from moving, it's the other way around, so it shouldn't be the pedestrians' space being taken away. Put those on the road.
I'm going to be hated, I know. I'm sick of this shit though. If there need to be physical barriers to prevent vehicles from occupying pedestrian spaces because drivers just won't follow any rule, the barriers belong at the vehicles' spaces.
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
Can't say I disagree though. I think they're putting them on the sidewalk because street widths have precise regulations/measurement codes in place, so that might mess things up from a legislative standpoint.
Gengar168@reddit
In Skopje they put these bollards onthe main restaurant street in the city, but the owners of the restaurants quickly demolished them and the street is again turned in full parking mode 🙄
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
Can't the Town Hall penalize the restaurant owners for damaging public property? Those bollards cost money and work to put there, paid by the public.
Knj1gga@reddit
I like to use these. They seem more effective than tickets and fines.
Mysterious-Pack-5608@reddit
This shit seems not working as intended in Podgorica, as in cars with multiple rusting key marks still are parked in inappropriate ways. Though some moral satisfaction for the user is guaranteed.
Skylin34night@reddit
One solution would be population choosing public transport with buses rather than personal car, to reduce the number of the cars. Secondly, like in Tokyo, nobody should have a car in Bucharest if it can't make the proof of owning a parking lot.
Bucharest was literally the Paris of the East before destruction of WW2 and communist "revolution" architecture. Another necesary thing to be taken is either restoring the old architecture of Bucharest (like how Hungarians did in Budapest), either to choose Neo-romanian style, maybe a mixt with Brâncovenesc style.
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
Agreed with all your points. Provided Romania gets into a better economic position and the population (at least in urban areas) gets educated enough to vote for politicians willing to implement such policies.
Regarding the commie housing, it's a conundrum, because legislation is a bit of a shitshow: can't throw people out of their own houses nowadays, you need to provide either temporary replacements until the building gets rebuilt, or wait a very long time until commies become unappealing because the market offers new constructions which provide higher quality conditions, and they empty out on their own. All of these have high costs, which I'm not sure Romania can afford right now.
OkoMushrooom@reddit
There is no other solution than to line every sidewalk with concrete walls to keep people from parking, I’ve seen children in wheelchairs compete with cars on the most right side of the boulevard because the entire sidewalk is parked on.
Lorumba@reddit
People here dont see it as a problem some even encourage it there is a sub for people that got bored of this calles r/arabalarisikeyim
SoulEkko@reddit (OP)
We got our own community, r/fuckcarsRomania. Great that there's a movement in Turkiye as well, that's how this BS can stop. Takes time, but it's doable.
Versace_The_Dreamer@reddit
Gayification of cities.