Moved back to UK, thinking about going back to US.
Posted by hankandirene@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 290 comments
My husband and I (both British) moved back to the UK after 8 years in California at the beginning of 2025. We’ve bought a house here and both have stable jobs and my son is in a good school here but we worry about the future of the UK and the long term stability we have here. Cost of living is so high and we’ve taken a huge hit to our salaries. We’re doing ok but feel like our quality of life was far better in CA, we were making really good money and long term feel we could set up a strong financial future for our son.
But. We’d be leaving family and I worry about education in CA (I genuinely don’t know enough about it), but also worry I haven’t given it long enough here. We have an E2 visa open until April 2027 so ideally need to go back before then as it will be far easier to renew it vs apply for a new one.
Not sure what I’m looking for here but any POV is welcome. Has anyone repatted then gone back?
alphacentaurai@reddit
Recently left the UK for the US due (in part) to terrible wage stagnation and the cost of living.
There was no way we could get the math to stack up to give us the security and quality of retirement we'd like if we remained in the UK on UK wages for the next ten years or so.
KingAroan@reddit
I have lived in both countries, and I like things about both (I mostly miss the beaches in Florida, though, as an avid scuba diver). But in the UK the salaries are pretty bad. The same job I do averages about 3x the salary for the same position in the UK. If you get lucky and get a decent job with a good salary, then the tax obligation hits hard. Going straight from 20% to 40% then 45% is crazy. I keep trying to tell my wife that we could earn so much more if she moved to the states with me but the news has her terrified of what happens in the US.
Substantial-Author35@reddit
The salaries are often substantially lower in the UK for the same role but you have more of a cushion… companies I’ve worked for had to go through a lengthy process to layoff anyone in the UK or European countries and then typically gave out 2 years pay for those in UK, Germany, Netherlands etc. whereas those employed in the US were given a 2 weeks notice and 1 week pay per year they worked.
KingAroan@reddit
I’m agree to a point, I’ve not heard of anyone getting a 2 year pay severance package. My wife’s company has had a few people laid off and not one of them got more than a 3 month severance. While in the states, if I were making 2 to 3 times what I do in the UK and also paying way less in taxes as well then I could make my own severance package in the way of an emergency fund and I would be able to keep the remainder of excess for myself.
sailoorscout1986@reddit
You’re not getting 2 years pay or a lengthy process in the UK if you’re under say 50 y/o. Can’t speak for the rest of Europe
nolimitslongpig@reddit
I will say - I had a U.K. employee at our office who worked for my team. That person earned 30ish% LESS than other members in the team for the same job. I tried to raise their salary the first year only to be told “ U.k. folks don’t need to be paid as much as us employees”. I asked how they can earn less in a city that is Far more expensive and told that just how it was. Well that employee left for another job that paid about 10% more. I tried to push through a bigger raise to keep them and again told by the Uk folks that was unfair. I honestly don’t see how anyone lives there. I spoke with them and they said they commute 1.5 hours EACH way to work and that cost was a large amount. The uk - I don’t think I’d ever live there. A headhunter called me about a C level job there making far less than I am paid and told me that that’s standard. After taxes I would have lived like a pauper compared to the USA. So glad we revolted 😁
EntrepreneurAway419@reddit
You honestly don't see how anyone loves there... If you had an employee in the Philippines, would they get a US salary? Most likely not. The UK is by no means perfect or right for everyone but your head needs a wobble
sailoorscout1986@reddit
Nah they’re right. Why would you pay a 50% paycut to live somewhere with similar cost of living apart from a couple of elements? If I ever moved back to the UK it would be for emotional reasons at the cost of finances and opportunities
sailoorscout1986@reddit
Yep this was my reason.
Intrepid-Leather-417@reddit
But math isn’t the real world….. I watched my dad build up a huge savings and quality retirement plan, then he got cancer, lost his job and had to cash in his retirement to keep from dying. America is great until it isn’t and your employer decides it’s more economical for them to move on…. In the UK and EU where I now live we have protections and won’t die broke because we got sick
alphacentaurai@reddit
I'm sorry to hear about your dad's experience. That sounds utterly awful to go through.
That experience isn't unique to America though. It might be better in other EU countries, but quality and pace of care under the NHS in the UK has really deteriorated.
I developed a health condition which was leaving me in constant agony and on a string of different anti-biotics that I eventually stopped responding to. Despite that, I was put on an indefinite wait list for surgery.
At the point where I gave in and paid out of pocket for private surgery I'd been waiting almost a year.
My wife has a family history of breast cancer, and the NHS still refused to screen her because of her age. She had always regular screening back in the US, and she gets that again now.
Historical_Market370@reddit
Ok, fair point, but you didn’t mention how much your out-of-pocket expenses were for this private surgery. I would hazard a guess that the same would have been wildly more expensive in the U.S.
alphacentaurai@reddit
On the insurance we currently have in the US my co-pay would have been around $250.
The out of pocket cost in the UK was equivalent to $11,000 plus costs for follow ups and scans... all of which would have been included in the co-pay if it had happened while we were here.
Neither country has a perfect healthcare system, but for me the US has been better
Intrepid-Leather-417@reddit
Is that counting your deductible? And what is the us insurance coverage rate after the deductible? Most premium plans in the us have shifted to a 3500$ deductible with a 70% coverage after that. My wife needed 2x colonoscopy per year at an out of pocket cost of 3500-3800$ each. With the top tier insurance for United healthcare
Intrepid-Leather-417@reddit
I wouldn’t be so sure about that either, big reason why we left for Europe only wife’s health, she has crohns and her insurance through work refused to pay for her medication and gave us the choice to pay out of pocket or have most of her colon and intestines removed and go on a colostomy bag at 35 years old. So we opted to pay for the medication out of pocket 1200usd per month. That coupled with her regular colonoscopy 2x a year we were spending 32k out of pocket every year after premium insurance at 970$ per month and constant denial for life insurance for her. For 8 years.
We moved to Germany and within one year she is in complete remission our insurance premium is 515€ per month and we pay 5€ per month for her medications all medical procedures have been 100% covered.
She has basically the same job but makes about 10% less after taxes but only works 40 hours vs 80 has 48 vs 28 vacation days and unlimited vs no sick days.
I can’t stress how much happier and healthier we are without the stress that comes with being in American corporate work culture and the overall quality of food and life here.
hermesandhemingway@reddit
Ugh I’m so sorry. I recently read about a lady’s husband who was laid off in USA — he had a terminal cancer diagnosis but it was being managed by a drug so he was relatively stable. Anyway, when he was made redundant due to mass lay offs he lost his health insurance and his life insurance. Tragic. The US is good when the going is good but if the tide turns, prepare to be 🍆 every way to Sunday.
Competitive_Cat_2020@reddit
Yessss this is how I feel
Sosolidclaws@reddit
This is the reality most Americans will completely ignore when they talk about the UK / Europe being a better place to live and work
LucidChaos78@reddit
I 100% disagree.
RunningIntoTheSun@reddit
Are you ignoring the elderly people in the USA who are working solely to pay for their medications though? You may be able to save more for retirement in the USA but there's less social safety net.
muntaxitome@reddit
For the average person Europe can be a better place to work. in the high-end US is typically much better paying. Expats usually are in the higher earning brackets so would edge towards US.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Yes, I agree. Since moving between the US and Europe is only open to high-end earners (to have the education, work visa, etc.) I think people's advice should be focused on that opportunity comparison.
Juan_Cuevas1@reddit
I think Europe is far superior if you are retiree or a person who would be content with a low salary. Such people do exist.
The USA is far superior if you are a young person who yearns for economic mobility, which does not exist in the average European country as it does in the USA.
It's easier to find a job in the USA, especially in Texas, while one would have to heavily depend on nepotism in Europe.
As an American, I will grant that American culture, for better or worse, does not have an anti-youth bias that Europe does. American culture wants to give young people opportunities because it supports the mindset that the youth is the next generation. This worldview does not exist in the average European country, which is in desperate need of young, productive people but refuses to economically support them.
imrzzz@reddit
Wtf are you on about?
Sosolidclaws@reddit
They are absolutely right. In America you are judged much more on your actual competence and vision than your seniority and years of experience – especially in the tech industry.
muntaxitome@reddit
I have worked in tech for 20 years in both EU and US and that is just not true?
When getting jobs at US tech companies it is just about FAANG or other shiny things on resume and leetcode.
EU companies care way more about your vision, team fit, competence in delivering.
I prefer working for US companies because it's easier to get more pay and you just show them the 'google' on the resume and basicall you are in the fast lane.
Startup culture in US is mostly about available money in pretty much purely silicon valley. It has very little bearing on how the average companies hire in the US.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
That is not true. Anyone can get millions of dollars in venture funding in America if their idea + team is good enough. You don't need to have worked at FAANG. This is simply not possible in the vast majority of Europe.
And even outside of tech, anti-youth bias and nepotism is less common in America than Europe.
muntaxitome@reddit
You seem to be responding to something I haven't said. Getting venture capital has nothing to do with getting a job. Totally different ballgame. We were talking about jobs?
The 'execution is good enough' is doing a lot of work in that sentence. It is a little like saying 'anyone can win a medal at the olympics if their execution is good enough'.
Early_Divide_8847@reddit
I wish you were right but the US youth are struggling big time and the majority of voters do not prioritize them at all. Do you know how much debt an educated 25 year old has in the US? Jobs are nonexistent in Texas right now in fact some of Texas largest employers have had workforce reductions in the past year. A big one just last week. There are tens of thousands of young educated Texans that are looking for work right now as I type.
muntaxitome@reddit
You are actually quite out of touch, the US has a very specific issue with youth (especially young-graduate) unemployment right now. That issue is much worse in the US than western Europe right now (except for the UK that has similar issues as the US)
This also affects Texas, from a random example news article:
"At 13.3%, Houston has the worst rate of young adults who are neither working nor in school of the largest metro areas in the country."
https://www.texastribune.org/2025/12/02/texas-houston-employment-young-mothers-disconnection-jobs-college/
Competitive_Cat_2020@reddit
I mean... i'm american and living in the UK for the last 6 years. Life is way better here. Salaries might be lower, but general living is way cheaper. For housing, my husband and I have moved further out of london and our mortgage for a 2 bed is only around 750 a month. Can easily commute into london if needed for work.
Honestly I couldn't care less about a lower salary. Literally having more than 30 days off a year (26 base days + bank holidays) and not having the risk of entering extreme medical debt is enough for me.
teapigsfan@reddit
yes, all of this. I've been in the UK 20 years now. My husband (from an EU country) and I both also have UK citizenship. Salary isn't everything. We travel often. Brexit was the only (massive) downside for us really.
Our salaries would be higher in the USA, but I've also witnessed the headaches my best mate back in the US has with health insurance (and she's in multiple 6 figure, director level salary range) for her family, honestly listening to her stress about having forgotten to do something earlier in the year which has now compounded how much money they owe for medical (please don't ask me what!) was rage inducing.
Don't get me wrong, when things are good in the US, they're great. And if you want flashy things, yes the US will tick those boxes. But the UK is absolutely fine. Most things that people currently are stressed about are happening around the world: cost of living, rents, food, healthcare.
What I will give them though is the weather is exponentially better in the US. 😂 Visiting my dad at the moment and it is literally the only thing that makes me wonder why the fuck I keep living in the UK! But I'll get back home, see my mates, get back to work and I'll remember the things I love there.
spookie_ghostie@reddit
I totally agree. With my career path, I would never have been a super high earner I would be mid to high average, probably comfortable in a low or mid COL area) and my salary where I live in Germany is right around the national average, but the extra "perks" I have living here make it far worth it for me. I just enjoyed a 4 day weekend while my American family had to work Good Friday and Easter Monday. I have 30 vacation days, unlimited sick days (the limited sick time is such a barbaric practice in the US), a company car, and my partner and I are able to put away lots into our savings each month. My life at 26 is far more comfortable than I would expect to have in America. Plus, my healthcare is leagues less expensive than what it used to be in the US. The US is great for those who have high powered jobs and wealth, but I am perfectly happy living with my modest income with a very safe life.
Ed-Lyne1988@reddit
Literally just dropped the same comment about working Easter - grim!
Competitive_Cat_2020@reddit
YES!!! The sick leave policy has honestly been a life saver too. I was on sick leave for 3 months in a previous role a few years ago. As an expat without leave to remain yet (uk), I'm not entitled to any benefits so I would have been so screwed if it wasn't for sick leave
Ed-Lyne1988@reddit
I am feeling this having just worked Good Friday and Easter Monday when all my friends back home are enjoying a long weekend. The average american doesn't understand how much better the work / life balance is in Europe (it does come at the expense of the salary of course)
oyamaca@reddit
This is it though. Most people look at the salary in isolation from the rest of the issues in the US. Healthcare, rising cost of living (California can’t be lower than the UK?) and other benefits ie) parental leave, holidays, no trump 🤷🏽♀️
Seems like a lot of people really get hung up on the salary but and forget about how much life actually costs in the US all things considered.
Competitive_Cat_2020@reddit
Right?!!! Parental leave is a big one
No_Lime5241@reddit
What California you living in, the one I live in is full of homeless people inflation crime degrading infrastructure declining jobs expensive housing and incompetent government
oliviadsmith@reddit
I don’t know why you are being down voted, you’re not wrong.
No_Lime5241@reddit
I posted this twice, the other comment has -31 lol
On the positive At least Californians have love for their state and city,
Forsaken-Bread-8214@reddit
Yup! Very true.
marianneouioui@reddit
Because unfortunately so many people on this sub aren't actually expats, just Americans that want to leave their country.
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
Agreed. It’s incredibly annoying how brigaded this sub is by Americans whose experience of other countries is limited to a couple of two week vacations in touristic spots.
alphacentaurai@reddit
I'd also add the number of people who have built their wealth in the US. Moved overseas WITH that US wealth and then talk about how fantastic life is in their new country, completely ignoring the fact that their entire financial security and comfort was gained in the US.
Early_Divide_8847@reddit
You can say that about the Californians who go to Texas and live large…. On the $ California made them and then they trash CA while they cash in on selling their house that is now millions. I know a couple of those.
8458001910@reddit
im an expat. I dont ignore that I built a pension in the usa, I admit I cant live on my pension there because daily life has become unaffordable. im running out of time and I cant wait for politicians to fix the situation.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Yeah, you’re right. As someone who was born in Europe and had the privilege to live in America, it’s hard to describe how much opportunity and career growth that opened up in my life. It is an incredible nation, with incredible lands and people. It also has many very serious problems – but I think there is a lot more to be optimistic about for America’s future compared to most of Europe.
jenn4u2luv@reddit
It really depends.
I moved from NYC to London and got a salary raise. So to me, the UK is an amazing place to be in.
I was a high earner in NYC but there was always a looming anxiety. In London, I actually feel that I am making a lot of money despite paying 6 figures in taxes.
The other surprise was how much net pay I’m taking home here. 58% in London vs 52% when I lived in NYC. The US often has a lot of hidden fees that you won’t know just from looking at takehome salary calculator such as the many city level taxes and insurance premiums.
scrappinginMA@reddit
Hope you dont think any money you put away for retirement here is going to be there. I am close to retirement and my 401k is less than 50% of its value and i dont trust medicare to be available at retirement. And the care my mom gets is CRAP and costs so much. Medocare is sliding.
Its not the UK or the USA. Its the world and the fact that the capitalist system is a failure to all but those at the top. When a couple makes well over 100k and cant possibly afford a home it is nuts.
RoiCoupeCloue@reddit
How is your 401K 50% of its value? Are you actively trading in it?
W2WageSlave@reddit
I too am intrigued. u/scrappinginMA needs to get over to r/Retirement401k pronto!
RoiCoupeCloue@reddit
Yeah, I assume those numbers make no sense unless you are actively trading in volatile stocks and leveraging.
Sad_Resolve_4888@reddit
The math is what made us move as well, wife's career pays twice as much than it did back home, COL was half as well. Politics aside it put us in a very comfortable position.
TPWilder@reddit
Can I ask what you mean by the cost of living in the UK? I'm considering the move from US to UK in part because of the cost of living here in the US. On paper, the UK looks like a better option, but I freely admi I might be missing something.
alphacentaurai@reddit
Thats okay! The cost of food, council tax, energy, petrol, phone lines and internet, and housing have all risen at significantly greater rates than salaries in the UK over the last 15 years - and that trend hasn't really stopped.
Because of the weak job market, while everyone in the UK finance subreddits always suggests moving jobs to secure above-inflation pay rises, this has become incredibly difficult and competitive. The reality is that, unless you are at a very high level in your organisation, year on year your salary doesn't keep up with inflation on goods and services - so your salary buys you less every year and disposable income erodes.
All of the above is compounded by short contracts on household expenses and built-in, in contract price rises.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
It's simple, the ratio of salary:living costs (rent, food, travel, etc.) is much higher in the US than the UK. You simply don't make enough money in the UK to buy a house and build savings for your family.
oz229@reddit
I moved to Australia from the US 30 years ago because I saw the writing on the wall which looked as though America was heading to the toilet. Behold ! It’s in the toilet and half the nation are scary people with horrible values. I will never go back and imo the UK has much more soul to offer for a good and wholesome life
comments83820@reddit
You're worried about the future of the UK and want to. move back to the U.S.? What?
hankandirene@reddit (OP)
I understand that but I feel the UK is less economically stable and opportunity to earn money here is so limited
comments83820@reddit
wait until someone gets cancer in the U.S. and you have to make higher education decisions. then look at the cost of housing (including insurance), the cost of cars (including insurance), and the potential costs of increased crime.
Ok-Leopard-9917@reddit
Cancer care in the US is great, prompt and covered by insurance. As an American I’d be terrified of delays in a foreign country. But I haven’t lived anywhere else.
Substantial-Author35@reddit
With the exception of many rare forms of cancers… then you’re paying $100k per year for treatments and/or need to join a clinical trial and they will take everything from you when you die. It happened to my grandfather who had retired after working decades as a head chemical engineer at a nuclear plant… the US is great when you’re working and have private insurance. Lose your health here and bankruptcy soon follows.
comments83820@reddit
imagine you have a $20,000 family deductible
Ok-Leopard-9917@reddit
Well I have a $1500 deductible not $20000. And I specifically said I would be concerned about speed of care, which is generally not a concern in the US.
lostmyoldaccountohno@reddit
The UK has THE HIGHEST CANCER DEATH RATE IN THE WESTERN WORLD
I had cancer in the UK and luckily I have incredible private insurance that paid for me to go to the Royal Marsden and I was fine. I never would've qualified to go to Royal Marsden on the NHS. In fact another girl I met same age (28) who was scheduled to have the same cancer surgery the same day as me was delayed 3 months by NHS doctor strikes and the cancer ended up wrapped around her brain stem and she barely survived.
Woe is anyone unlucky enough to be young and have cancer on the NHS with no private health insurance.
TinhatToyboy@reddit
the UK is on the verge of rejoining the European Single Market...what are you smoking?
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
As a Briton in the US I've had to pay all these things, and I've still got more money at the end of it than I ever had in the UK. You know why? Because I actually get paid a much higher salary.
Halo_of_Light@reddit
If you're worried about them both on the whole, they're both in a state of gradual decline. No winners here.
I'd stay where I made more money, and CA > UK for weather and food. Both in the UK have nothing on California.
As for education, if you want your kids in public school, do your research on which districts have better funded schools. If private do the same.
BackToGuac@reddit
The uk significantly beats the us on food when we’re talking about literal food safety standards. This idea that uk food is shite is complete BS and whilst yes, SOME uk foo is bland, ALL uk food is held to standards the us don’t come close to…
Having said that, both these countries are going down the pan and there are plenty of better options
manicpixidreamgirl04@reddit
The US ranks 3rd in the world for food quality in safety while the UK ranks 29th
potatoguru@reddit
It is worth mentioning the UK is 9th overall on the index and the US is 13th, looking at the data for food quality and safety the UK's score for micronutrient availability seems to show there is no availability of vitamin A in our foods with a score of 0? Which I imagine pulls that score down significantly. Either I'm misunderstanding what they're measuring or that can't be correct.
comments83820@reddit
yeah, UK food is far better
LowlySysadmin@reddit
It depends what part of the US you're talking about. I was born in the UK and lived there for over 30 years, but having lived in the Bay Area since then, it doesn't compare.
I went back to the UK and was gobsmacked at how bad the food was, frankly. The one exception being Nandos still fucking killing it though lol
Halo_of_Light@reddit
I'm not disagreeing with you, I just like dunking on how terrible British cuisine is because I'm a certified hater😂.
Also, I believe California compared other states has better food standards or resto standards than others (tho not an expert) and that this poster comes across as having the socio economic means to afford more healthy groceries.
Striking_Effective99@reddit
For the love of god I don't know why you are getting downvoted.
Food quality standards and regulations are absolute garbage in the US, there is none in fact
scrappinginMA@reddit
And getting worse....
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Ignore the comments that are telling you the US is in worse shape than the UK. That is ABSOLUTELY not true. I have lived in both countries for many years, and America is a far, far better place to live than the UK today if you want to build family wealth, explore new opportunities, have access to beautiful nature, have actual freedom of speech, and enjoy a high quality of life. These people have no idea how bad the economic and societal situation has gotten in the UK, its future is much bleaker than America’s.
RadiantAd9947@reddit
The moment “free speech in the UK” shows up as a grievance, it’s a pretty reliable signal of where the argument is coming from.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Are you serious? The UK is absolutely ABYSMAL on freedom of speech. Who the fuck wants to live in a place where you can get a visit from the police for your social media posts being too "far-right" or "islamophobic"?
ayeayefitlike@reddit
Because… that doesn’t happen? Yes hate speech is a crime but you’re not getting a visit from the police unless you’ve been targeting someone based on a protected characteristic or are viewed as inciting terror acts. There’s only something in the region of 115k incidents of reported hate crime per year and that includes all terror attacks, assault and harassment.
Whereas in contrast to enter the US as a tourist you can get entry refused if you’ve criticised the president on social media.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
It happens all the time. You can look up the hundreds of such cases available online (including details of the trials and sentencing). The very idea that "hate speech" should be illegal is a betrayal of freedom of speech. In America you are allowed to criticize and insult any political or religious group, using any language (other than real threats of violence of course), protected by the constitution.
dudload1000@reddit
Unless you end up getting shot on the face or sent to an extra judicial interment camp. You're being myopic here and it's betraying the fact you're not a good actor
dudload1000@reddit
Hilarious take.
You not bothered about people getting shot exercising their freedom of speech in the US, or the president going after whoever "leaked" that a plane was shot down?
The USA is on a one way trip to a dictatorship right now
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
Many of us who disagree have lived in the USA until recently, and are now living in the UK.
Therefore we are speaking from personal experience.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Most people who say this have only experienced one side or the other. As for you, that's great, but I think you are wrong. And the economic data supports my view.
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
As for whose looking at a better economic outlook, the LSE fears that a Trump appointee to the fed could stock further inflationary pressures placing the economy into potential crisis mode.
The UK however is forecasted to remain somewhat static, if slightly down.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2025/12/30/what-americans-and-britons-should-expect-from-the-economy-in-2026/
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Maybe so. But that doesn't even make a dent in the existing disparity in salary levels between the US and UK.
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
For us it was an easy pick - too many folk in the States are now one medical crisis from bankruptcy.
That scares me.
I’d rather a lower salary and far greater financial stability to the risk of medical bankruptcy.
Now I’m in my late 50s I’m even more aware of that than I was previously.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Fair enough. I think if you are a low-middle income earner that makes a lot of sense. Probably less so if you can make a very high salary in America. Enjoy your time in Britain! I absolutely loved living in Oxford.
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
We were earning $200k in the states.
We now live comfortably on my wife’s £70k salary while I save my part time earnings.
lostmyoldaccountohno@reddit
You wrote £55k in another comment and now claim £70k here. That's quite a difference.
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
If I said £70k I meant $70k - she took her job with her at her current US rate.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Sweet, that's a good setup if you're happy with the weather / culture there! I personally wouldn't want it long-term, but it's your home country so it's different for you.
CongruentDesigner@reddit
Less than 6% of bankruptcies in the US are due to medical costs
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5865642/
Given only 1% of all American adults claim bankruptcy per year, thats a very very small number of people.
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
“Most people“
I could say the same thing on the other side. Since we have zero evidence either way , I prefer to not use statements like that.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Sure. I never said you aren't entitled to your voice, I said OP should ignore your advice because it's disconnected from the reality of the situation (and often just motivated by anti-Trump politics).
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Why do you disagree
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
Because our CoL are has dropped considerably since we moved.
We lived on both our salaries in the USA ($200,000), and now manage just on my wife’s £55,000 - and that includes now paying rent when our house in the USA was fully paid off.
lostmyoldaccountohno@reddit
And what's your retirement savings rate in comparison?
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
The OP of this post is also speaking from personal experience, and clearly they prefer the US
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
If it was clear, they’d not be here asking for advice.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
That you are being downvoted for this is absurd.
moelycrio@reddit
My mate did exactly the same as you guys (with wife and 3 kids). San Fran to UK. Realised it sucked. Back to USA. You are not alone. Good luck.
hankandirene@reddit (OP)
Yes we came from SF.
SidePsychological402@reddit
SF is pretty close to perfection. Even so, you moved back to the UK for a reason. I would focus on that for the next month or so. It sounds like a win-win situation because you can return if you'd like.
mitu_roy@reddit
Have read in many forums that San Francisco is a city in decline with massive homeless population, open drug use problems, high crime rates because of slack policing and woke policies, businesses closing due to organised shoplifting, etc.
Is this not true?
SidePsychological402@reddit
Some of its true indeed but I think that you find these problems in any city. Also, a lot of these issues happen in the same neighborhood. I see this neighborhood showcased many times as a representation of the city in its entirety. It's just a neighborhood and, overall, San Francisco is an amazing place to live. No matter what happens economically it bounces back. If by "woke" you mean humane then yes, it's very woke. It's not perfect, it's not for everyone but there is no place that I would rather live.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Woke is not "humane", it's allowing criminals and mentally ill people to terrorize your citizens.
San Francisco has become sooo much better ever since moderates won and started cleaning things up.
SidePsychological402@reddit
I strongly disagree. As a matter of fact you're wrong but we obviously have a different value system.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Well, I hope you look at the declining crime rates, the cleaner streets, and wake up to the reality.
SidePsychological402@reddit
Ok.
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
It’s not true, it’s all BS.
Ok, not all BS: there was an organized crime ring doing a lot of car break ins, but the police set up a bunch of stings and basically broke the organization. Car breaks ins are down 90% or something.
California also has a homelessness problem, with high housing costs and not enough apartments. But they’re working on tackling it and there are fewer tent cities than there were a few years ago.
Overall SF is a BEAUTIFUL city and a great place to live.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Yes that was true a few years ago, but it's getting much better now ever since the woke left-wing government was voted out and moderates took over. Also, you only really experience those problems in a small area of downtown. Most of San Francisco is incredibly beautiful, clean, and safe.
Mustardly@reddit
As always - if you have money then it's great. Great scenery, great attractions, great restaurants. I feel truly lucky to live here.
But, if we lose our jobs it's probably back home for us. I have the run away money sat in an account - enough for flights, 6 months flat rental back home and buying some new furniture. Hopefully we never need it.
Mustardly@reddit
You need to be very clear on the terms of your E2 - we were warned by our lawyer that it doesn't just stay open. Part of the reason for it is that you are doing business in the US on the behalf of the E1 visa holder. That's hard to argue if you have been gone for a year (family as well).
I have moved internationally a couple of times (and returned to the UK in between) and you really need to remember that the world moves on. The country you are going back to is not the same one you left - nowhere stays stagnant. Its like going back to your hometown, it is never the same. People often experience a sense of disconnection because they no longer feel at home but that is normal!
Remember how long it took you to feel at home over here in the bay ... and give yourself that much time to feel at home in the UK. I know it took me at least 2 years before I no longer felt like I was assimilating.
The other thing is that the US is not as fun as you remember - even only a year later. We will skip over some of the politics (which you cam feel insulated from here in CA) but fuel prices are going up and up, there are layoffs. Start ups are failing as they need funding, which is drying up. The AI boom looks good (I know I am profiting off of it) but that's not going to last. Employers are saying away from visa holders - especially 'weird' ones like E2 spouse visas or the contractor approach they have to take woth E2 visa holders.
Its great here if you have money - but the precipice is right there. 1 layoff in the household and you are in trouble. Healthcare, food, transportation and that extortionate rent will bleed you dry. It also takes a year to break even (minimum) on the costs of relocation - the £ is fairly weak against the dollar right now so that monwy will not go as far.
All I am saying is that you need to make sure you aren't chasing a memory of a country and culture that just doesn't exist any more - change is inevitable and can be jarring if you aren't prepared.
IllustriousLily1593@reddit
Sounds like to me the real issue is salaries. You will never make the level of money anywhere (that I've heard) like the US, it is talked about a lot.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
I agree with the other comment, San Francisco is genuinely one of the best cities in the world to live
Skycbs@reddit
Exactly. Which is why it makes AARP’s top cities to retire despite the costs.
JellyOk9999@reddit
SF is NOT the U.S. You’re in one of the best cities in the U.S. You can find good quality health care in SF under your employers’ health care plan. There’s fresh produce here. GDP per capita in SF is one of the highest in the world if you are in tech or tech-adjacent. There is no comparison!
Top-Significance8791@reddit
If money is your only concern then go back to the US…
But wow is there more to life than money
Vexed_Violet@reddit
Less economically stable than the US where it's own president is doing stock market manipulation to make him and his billionaire buddies money? We literally just started a war and the president said....Iran may retaliate on US soil...shrug no follow up, no plan.
Ed-Lyne1988@reddit
Yep. GDP not a perfect measure by any means but take a look at how it's grown in the US v UK since the great recession. Wage growth has been much higher in the US
defaultedebt@reddit
Yes. The UK is still far less economically stable and the future looks economically worse than the US. Even with Trump doing his best to ruin things.
Vexed_Violet@reddit
Jeez. I guess they must regret pulling out of the EU.
mitu_roy@reddit
EU an’t doing any better. People in France and Germany are complaining about the high cost of living, high crime rates, unaffordable housing, housing shortages and high immigration.
jenn4u2luv@reddit
When I moved from NYC to London in 2023 right before the orange man got elected, I had a thesis that the UK could not sink any lower.
From the advice of my US 401k provider, I moved my US-heavy funds into Asia and Europe funds. Again, this was a US finance firm that told me to move a huge chunk of my US investments into non-US.
And right after I moved, I sold my brokerage account portfolio in the US and bought UK blue chips like Rolls Royce, Aviva, etc. I also bought UK ETFs. The individual stocks gave me around 100% in profit. And the ETFs have been more stable these days than the US ones.
Another economic outcome is how the FTSE100 (21.5%) amazingly outperformed the S&P500 (16.3%) in terms of year-on-year growth by the end of 2025.
Economically speaking, the UK has performed so well.
In terms of stability, I have less faith in the US because of how much new money they have printed since Covid. This is why the GBP is also now a lot stronger vs the USD.
My advice is for you to negotiate a salary that is more aligned to your old US salary. Leverage your experience and past pay to get closer to that level and that will solve a lot of your instability worries.
Distinguishedflyer@reddit
sure come on back we need more witnesses to ice raids and mass shooting shootings.
Neverland__@reddit
Reddit hates US so hard. If you like it, what does it matter what other people think? I have lived in the UK, I prefer in USA. We are not weridos, don’t let people convince you otherwise. Doomers gonna doom, everyone has their own story
Tradtrade@reddit
You reckon the war criminal pedos are a better choice ? Please go
Kurt805@reddit
The bigger western countries are all going through levels of upheaval due to similar circumstances. I don't think anyone has a crystal ball good enough to see what 20 years into the future looks like. Just be where you are happiest.
m0neky@reddit
Then go back to the US. Easy.
Neverland__@reddit
USA working out great for me! I like the US even if 99% of reddit thinks it’s mad max
search_google_com@reddit
I'm a Taiwanese living in the UK While I love many parts of the UK, it is really insane many British/Europeans do not know how their countries are falling behind. Everything is run down and stagnant seriously. UK/Europe is not comparable to the US anymore. What Europeans do is just repeatedly talking about gun shooting at schools and Healthcare system but Europe is not safe either and NHIS has failed .
Chuckles1188@reddit
"it is really insane many British/Europeans do not know how their countries are falling behind"? It's all we talk about
Jumpy-Function-5883@reddit
This is spot on. The immediate response on Reddit would be is that this is rightwing propaganda or pulling up some chart to argue how much better the crime rate is.
dudload1000@reddit
Even the most cursory look at a crime chart would show that the most dangerous country in Western Europe is safer than the safest us state.
So, it's not spot on at all
barryfromthebloke@reddit
Is it better than living in Taiwan? - genuine question.
Separate-Rough-8083@reddit
If you want to be rich and chase the American dream, move to claifornia.
If you want
Single-Frosting-3742@reddit
I was born in london and my mothers American so I have dual citizenship.. I moved to orange county California at 10 lived there until 30 when I moved back to london… remember money isn’t everything… the way of living imo in america esp. California is so artificial.. no family values etc. plus the party atmosphere for young kids and drugs epidemic.. honestly I think the uk is a far better place to raise a child just my opinion
laithe_97@reddit
Tell you you’re just listening to US mainstream news without telling me.
The-American-Abroad@reddit
UK is heading in the wrong direction, and I definitely wouldn't move there vs. California.
However, you might want to look into continental Europe somewhere. Depending on your job situation, you may be able to match the things you like in the UK while avoiding the negative ones.
Ok-Leopard-9917@reddit
Continental Europe for OP has the double downside of low income and far away from family.
The-American-Abroad@reddit
Depends on the place. Switzerland salaries are really good. And the UK is not really that high in general, salary wise, compared to the US. It’s just typically a little better than continental Europe.
proof_required@reddit
Switzerland has much smaller job market and language barrier is a big issue. If you lose your job, it gets really hard to find one, especially if you don't speak one of the Swiss languages quite well.
Active_Wasabi_1141@reddit
Like where? And why there?
Thanks for the info
The-American-Abroad@reddit
Switzerland would be on my list if I was choosing between the UK and the US. Of course assuming that I was in demand enough economically to get a job in any of these places.
PaleIncome8254@reddit
We are British and currently in the US, we lived in the US previously for a couple of years in 2016 and then back to the UK, then back out here again! We are moving back again to the UK at the end of the year, just because we move with the company needs. But we find the quality of living and earning potential far better in the US.
We don't have kids so I can't comment on the school system but I know that I have heard others speak on this. Would a private school be possible in CA with your salaries out here?
Family is obviously a big thing, if you need to get back to the UK for family for an extended period if someone was ill, do you have the flexibility? That will be a big factor in giving you peace with the decision to move.
Everywhere has pros and cons and you just need to do what works for you.
LowLvlLiving@reddit
Could you elaborate on the improved quality of life in the US? Genuinely curious - I'm English, lived in the US for 13 years, just moved back to the UK and find the QOL so much higher back in England. Interested on where you find things better.
PaleIncome8254@reddit
I find that we have so much more time in the day, we seem to be able to get more done and spend more time together and go to the gym daily which we never were able to in the UK. I also think the weather plays a big part of it for us, we are in South Texas, so it's nice for a lot of the year and be can have bbqs most of the time and get to spend a lot of time by the pool.
Everything is less cramped on a day to day as well, just like driving and parking and getting around, so it's less stressful even though the cars are bigger.
I know healthcare is contentious topic as well, but we fortunately have very good insurance through work and I was diagnosed with stage 2 Breast Cancer last year. I honestly believe if I had been in the UK it wouldn't have found until much later on as I had no symptoms and being out here I have been able to be seen at MD Anderson.
tt4444@reddit
Wouldn't you have had health insurance through your job in the UK? I've always had very good private health insurance through my jobs in London (as a solicitor/in-house lawyer but even as a paralegal and trainee) subject to an annual total deductible of £100-200. One of my friends here in London has breast cancer and has received all of her treatment via her work's private health insurance.
PaleIncome8254@reddit
No, in the UK it’s not provided for us. I will definitely be getting it though when we move back if I can get one to cover pre-existing. My mum had her cancer care through private insurance in the UK and it was a way better experience for her than other family members who didn’t have it.
LowLvlLiving@reddit
I (English) and my wife (American) moved to the UK last last year after 13 years in New York and finally feeling like the US wasn't home for us.
Of course, everyone's situation is different but we love being back in the UK. I find the quality of life much, much higher: access to healthcare, public transport, being able to bike everywhere, our neighbours are welcoming and communal, now we're out of winter the weather is amazing, where we live is historic and beautiful (not a McMansion insight!), the quality of food is much higher, easy access to the rest of Europe... I can go on.
I was mentioning this morning that there's no amount of money that would convince me to go back to somewhere like the bay area: sterile, fake, transactional (again, my experience)
The current state of the UK is a concern, but I'd rather take my changes here vs. living under the complete insanity that's happening in the US right now.
kryt4lp4l4ce@reddit
Say what now?
LowLvlLiving@reddit
A foreign concept for an American, right? We got rid of our car and haven't had a reason to get another one - everything is within a short bike ride.
kryt4lp4l4ce@reddit
Maybe within very specific areas in London. Otherwise no, UK is far, far from a bike friendly place. But I guess if you've only lived in UK and US, then UK might seem bike friendly.
_TTYN@reddit
public transport
…wha?
Visual_Title9363@reddit
I'm curious - instead of looking at a dollar value in absolute terms, have anyone defined value for money? And how does that look like in both countries?
Value of money includes variety - healthcare, food standards, political stability, leisure etc (widely dependent on your lifestyle). But most importantly, how about the time or opportunity cost spent to get a second permanent residency/citizenship?
GingerBuffalo@reddit
I moved to the UK from Seattle at the end of 2023. And I'm baffled at your comparative description. The US, especially the west coast seem anything but stable compared to where I've settled in the UK. Yes, there are cost of living issues here, especially with the latest developments in the mid east. Seattle is more expensive than London though. I took a base salary reduction to move here, I'm still doing better. Also, the society of this country doesn't feel like it's about five minutes away from either civil war or like things are on the verge of decaying into total lawlessness. Which was something I felt creeping steadily in the areas of Seattle, Portland, SF, LA.
mutantninja001@reddit
If you’re making good money and you’re worried about your kids education, we can into private schools
EhDeeHD@reddit
Alot of doing and not alot of thinking.
Sorry_Product_3637@reddit
The grass is always greener but the jet lag of moving your whole life twice in two years is very real. Give it at least a full year before deciding again.
Forsaken-Bread-8214@reddit
Brit/American naturalized citizen here in California, I am going home to be with my parents in 5 years. I am barely surviving here, and there is no insurance or sick pay!
We are at war, gas is $7 here where I am! I love the USA, but I don't think I would come back for good. I will visit my adult kids but that's it.
theytookallthecash@reddit
I can't quite wrap my head around thinking the UK has a HCOL and then wanting to move back to one of the states with the highest cost of living in the US. Isn't it the same problem?
I mean, if you can go back to CA, I would argue it's top 5 best states in the US to live in...if you can afford it.
hankandirene@reddit (OP)
We earned triple what we make here. We were far better off financially. I can only comment on the situations we were in
Ed-Lyne1988@reddit
Can say this as a Brit living in the US who has experienced both, the average Brit cannot comprehend how much more disposable income the average American has compared to them.
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
Ignore the whiny losers in this thread (or just Reddit in general) and head back to CA.
I'm a Brit in the US. Trust me, theres absolutely nothing to suggest the UK is getting any better. The UK has been in terminal decline for 20+ years and the future is ever more grim.
People have been talking about the US decline since the US was founded. They've been wrong. Every. Single. Time
theytookallthecash@reddit
Easy to say when you can just up and leave.
Juan_Cuevas1@reddit
I agree with you, but in defense of those whiny losers, it's hard to celebrate being American when you have Europeans painting US nationalism has as narcissistic and imperialistic.
I sometimes feel self conscious for suggesting that the US may be a great place to live in.
theytookallthecash@reddit
Since you're on my thread, it pinged me. I'm not a European, I'm an American. I also clarified in my comments that if OP was to come back, CA is one of the best places to live in the US. Since you all see to have selective reading skills.
breaker-one-9@reddit
Fuck ‘em. Don’t let them make you feel a certain way. Haters would still take your spot in a heartbeat.
theytookallthecash@reddit
Are those jobs still available to you? Do they still exist? You left them, can you just go back? I'm thinking probably not. Finances are also not all that matter, especially when you have kids. If you were a young single guy, I'd tell you to go back your money.
I have a friend who just got denied for autism therapy for their kid after they appealed and his therapists appealed. "Not medically necessary." So now their 5 year old is fucked. Do you really want to live in a country that has this medical system?
The only way I'd say to do is if you can buy your way our of these problems, which is possible in the US. If you make 500k or more, maybe these issues aren't issues to you.
Bubbly_Ad_6830@reddit
You have a visa / passport to move back to the US?
Accomplished_Ruin133@reddit
British here living in Texas. We’ve just turned down a great opportunity to go back to London and are settling in for the long haul to commit the kids to the US education system.
The decision was based almost entirely on the better quality of life, healthcare, education, weather, space, shorter commute and opportunities that being here affords all of us.
No doubt there will be lots here that question the current politics but when we reflect on that it hasn’t changed our day to day lives and its ultimately a transient period.
RoundAd4247@reddit
You want to “commit” your children to the American education system, specifically in Texas? I guess that’s an apt choice for verb.
Ok-Leopard-9917@reddit
There some fantastic public schools in Texas. There are also terrible ones. It varies a lot.
TheFirstMinister@reddit
Yeah....educashun' in Texas is already poor and only getting worse. It's a disaster thanks to Abbott and his cronies defunding the system and going the voucher route. Of all the reasons to stay in the US, Texas' education system is not one of them.
Cold_Raspberry520@reddit
Clearly you aren't aware of the education in the UK or there lack of ...
TheFirstMinister@reddit
I'm aware of both. And I have family who work in the Texas system.
If you think Texas' public education is on the up I have a bridge to sell you.
Cold_Raspberry520@reddit
Never said it was on up but neither is the uk
Accomplished_Ruin133@reddit
Whilst I accept that there are some issues, it’s all relative to what you are coming from.
Here we live in an area zoned to some exceptional public schools. The facilities are great, teachers are excellent. The schools they will head go into as they get older also have excellent reputations. We’ve been thoroughly impressed. We also have the means here if we wanted to take them private.
Back in the UK in our local schools there were larger class sizes, some of the buildings were judged a safety hazard so the kids were in “temporary” porta-cabins. There outcomes weren’t great in the league tables and we couldn’t afford private options locally. My wife went through those schools hated it and it seems not much has changed.
Mwanamatapa99@reddit
Go back to the US. We were in the US for 25 years and returned to the UK in June last year. Biggest mistake of our lives. Will be returning to the US at the end of the year. Primary reason is complete lack of healthcare with the NHS (you get what you pay for) and the general state and direction of the UK. It's become a third world country. The spending on welfare now exceeds the amount of income tax generated - for the first time in history.
Do what's right for your family. Things aren't perfect in the US but there's a lot more optimism than for the UK.
LowLvlLiving@reddit
> third world country
You could describe the majority of America as "the middle east without goats" - the poverty, strangle hold drugs have, homelessness, lack of opportunity. Not all sunshine and rainbows over there either.
sercaj@reddit
Come back
acknb89@reddit
If you and your husband are earning well. And I meaning REALLY well (like $300k together) then going back to California isn’t a bad option. Because the taxes alone will basically wipe out half of your salary. Secondly education in America is really contingent on private vs public, whereby if you want your son to have a descent education you need to go for private schooling and that’s going to cost a pretty penny (assuming no scholarships, grants etc). When you combine that with taxes and California cost of living then it makes it a tough move if you’re not earning a lot. But aside from that, yeah US defeats UK for the most part; opportunities, career growth, US dollar bigger scale of everything. And let’s face it, the uk is a a bit of a s-hole these days and it’s glam is a thing of the past. (I’m glad I’m posting this from outside the Uk)
appropriateye@reddit
I suspect that op was doing much better than 300k combined the way they wrote and living in sf. Not sure 300k as a couple in sf would make you write as op about the quality of life
Anonymo123@reddit
There are 49 other states in the US, why go back to the one of the highest cost of living, homeless, crime, horrible budget, medical.. etc ?
Unless both of your jobs tie you to Cali, why not look somewhere else in the US?
Active_Wasabi_1141@reddit
The high cost of living is tied to high paying jobs. Philosophical socioeconomic debates aside… If OP is getting one of those high paying jobs, it’s a good thing for them.
Medical, they will have insurance through said jobs. Even if something goes wrong, the blue states will have more social programs. Whether or not you agree with the “socialism” of it, they will have it.
Crime- Louisiana, Alaska, New Mexico, Tennessee, Arkansas have highest violent crime rates and property crime rates in the country. See any trends?
tanbrit@reddit
I moved UK to US (East Coast) and am intrigued as to how you find the cost of living high by comparison?
ForeignAppointment87@reddit
We did this. Originally British and lived in Atlanta 2000-2018. Our children were born there, we had a business, dogs and a house. In 2018 I felt homesick, upset with politics and shootings so we sold up and moved back to the UK. It was a hard decision and we were determined to make the UK work. But we didn’t anticipate the impact of COVID or Brexit. Our standard of living declined and the children were suffering in UK high school/education system. In 2022 we said goodbye to family again and sold up again to return to the USA. We decided to ‘pick our poison’ and now have great jobs here again with the kids in great colleges. It’s hard and expensive to move but we’re lucky to have both passports. My vote is needed in the USA now. Feel free to dm me - we’re on the coast in NC now.
Cold_Raspberry520@reddit
You picked a great area though hope you're enjoying nc
Cold_Raspberry520@reddit
Uk sucks. Reddit thinks otherwise
UpUrs2@reddit
Move back and earn as much as you can and save as much as you can. Then when you are ready to retire, or have enough saved to retire, see where you want to live.
The big issue is what education system do you want for your child. You don't say the age but maybe consider the International Baccalaureate program. This will give them easier options should you decide to move back to the UK or EU when they are ready for University.
Rouxgaru@reddit
You’re complaining that the cost of living is so high in the UK vs California. And you moved back last year….
Maam are you serious? Unless you lived in Redding I cannot accept that on face value living in SoCal myself. Sit down and run actual numbers, and be sure to include the coming economic apocalypse. You think you’re going to move back and just snap up another good job on a work visa after another few thousand layoffs? Oh and include you medical premiums, deductibles, gas, insurance, all has gone up CONSIDERABLY since you left.
Do people just move countries on vibes?
Sosolidclaws@reddit
You are exaggerating how bad the economic situation ("apocalypse") will be in America
And you are probably underestimate how low salaries are compared to cost of living in the UK
Rouxgaru@reddit
Am I? Two masters degrees, multiple certifications, done industrial cybersecurity, and worked in the intel community for 5y. Can't find a job and I have a clearance for almost 2y.
But sure, I'm exaggerating for someone that doesn't even LIVE here at the moment. /eyeroll
Sosolidclaws@reddit
You not being able to find a job doesn't mean there is a "coming economic apocalypse"
Rouxgaru@reddit
Unless you're a better economist than Nobel winners.....yeah. it's coming.
Juan_Cuevas1@reddit
Would you like to move back to the US?
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Yes, I will be moving back to SF soon
Competitive_Cat_2020@reddit
American living in the UK. I think you're suffering from "grass is always greener on the other side". Honestly for me just the prospect of my children not having to face a school shooting is enough for me to stay in the UK
statelessghost@reddit
UK is just as bad in its own way. there’s stabbings on the streets and schools daily. There’s illegal immigrants in towns / city’s molestering women. There’s gang shootings all over big cities and endless low level crimes you can’t even wear a nice watch or your be robbed.
Benend91@reddit
This is so funny to read as a Brit who’s lived all across the country and regularly commutes into London. It’s just regurgitated nonsense.
Nouveau1989@reddit
For what it's worth I've lived in the USA almost my entire life (just a short stint in China and 2.5 years in New Zealand otherwise) and neither I nor my kids have ever experienced a school shooting, nor has anyone I or my kids know. I would do the math if I were you to determine your actual risk. I suspect it's vanishingly small.
Competitive_Cat_2020@reddit
It's obviously small, but why does that matter? I don't want to worry about that at all. Not to mention, there are shootings all the time in the US, not just in schools. Literally every time I'm home there is always some sort of local gun violence being reported
NotMyUsualLogin@reddit
Not sure why you feel the UK is somehow more unstable than the USA currently.
Intrepid-Leather-417@reddit
Especially since most of the wests economic woes are caused by the current state of the US right now
Sosolidclaws@reddit
That is not true. Europe's economic problems (i.e. stagnation) run much deeper than America's.
External-Carpenter-2@reddit
The US economy is not particularly healthy either. Isn't much of US economic growth based on speculation around tech and some pretty questionable ones at that. Metrics for quality of life in the US have been stagnant for a long time and is still behind many long-term-stagnant EU nations, as far as I'm aware.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
It's only speculation in the early stages – a lot of real frontier tech is being built in America today
External-Carpenter-2@reddit
When you have cyclic loan/leasing agreements between Nvidia and tech firms that does seem a bit questionable. 200bn+ in investment went into ai startups last year, many of which don't have much more than an elevator pitch worth of product. Last year the fed implied they wouldn't let any US banks fail, so what is the incentive to be responsible?
Not to say there are no frontier tech firms, but it does seem a lot like a bubble and many of the economists that warned about 2008 are blowing their whistles again.
Uncle_Richard98@reddit
We have , but everything in Europe runs at the speed of a snail thanks to regulation and policies blocking and delaying everything.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Yes, we could nurture it in theory but we really lack the institutional agility, dynamic labor market, and venture capital.
LoremIpsum00@reddit
The US system was designed for rich people/high earners. So, if you are a high earner (which sounds like you were specially if you were living comfortably in CA), then your experience in the US will likely be better than the UK.
However, for the average American, a good education can be very costly and proper healthcare is basically non-existent.
Juan_Cuevas1@reddit
It's so fascinating to see British people speaking highly of the US in this thread, while British subreddits disparage the country as if it were a cultural pastime.
snbdmliss@reddit
Everyone disparages the US, but at the same time many are very happy to move there.
Nouveau1989@reddit
I tell the same joke to every immigrant when I find out they have taken American citizenship: "Well, you're part of the problem now!" (I'm in the USA btw which is why the joke works)
hankandirene@reddit (OP)
Right 😂
LoremIpsum00@reddit
The US system was designed for rich people/high earners. So, if you are a high earner (which sounds like you were specially if you were living comfortably in CA), then your experience in the US will likely be better than the UK.
Jinniblack@reddit
Where in California? You haven’t been gone so long that rents have increased a lot. Did you own here and sell, though? All of my friends who left CA during Covid can’t afford to return - even if they wanted to. We all bought houses 15 - 20 years ago when that seemed expensive - but have mortgages far lower than current rents.
Yes, the salaries are higher. Can you get similar jobs and sustain them? Job prospects for many people I know (with graduate and professional degrees) are kind of grim, especially after DOGE flooded the market with qualified workers.
Just asking some questions. I have a couple of friends who’ve moved to the UK permanently about 8 years ago and have no plans to move back (San Diego), even with lower salaries. They’ve been able to buy (outside London/Edinburgh) and are comfortable.
Also, you’d have to move somewhere with good schools or pay for private.
We’re worried about the future of the US too.
(I split my time between CA and EU - I have 2 more years before moving to the EU permanently - kid in high school, FYI.)
vaskopopa@reddit
I’d like to understand more about why you went back to Uk after 8 years and how come you don’t know enough about education in USA? For context, we too have lived in SoCal for 10 years and returned in 2024. I had a rosey memory of what UK was like and was scared of Trump 2.0 (still am tbh). We are US citizens and will want to return back to USA at some point. In my experience, cost of living was higher in California than in UK but opportunities were greater. Also quality of life was better. It depends on what you are looking for and your stage in life.
Subject101356@reddit
I think whatever is happening in the UK is far better than what's currently going on in the US. Cost of living might be more but I would honestly reconsider since the US is currently in a war and no money is going to social services at the moment.
My company has offices in the US and I have the opportunity to transfer if I wish. It would mean a higher salary but I would be risking getting arrested at the border, losing healthcare, Ohio just banned wearing clothes of the opposite gender so... I mean, even the amount of protests is enough to keep me away. I don't disagree with them, I just think there's a lot going on there.
I plan on moving to the UK eventually (I'm not American), from a country that has similar values and customs. I would much rather lose the salary from a higher cost of living than lose my freedom from a government that cares more about war games than it's own citizens.
That's just my opinion.
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
Opinion based on never having lived in either country? Just to be clear.
Subject101356@reddit
Not permanently lived but spent extensive time in both. Also have family/friends in both countries. The only reason I haven't moved to the UK as of yet is that I'm looking further into some tax things like if I wait a bit longer, I can still get my pension but if I move too soon I'll lose it.
saphire_gander@reddit
Bruh ☠️
CaughtALiteSneez@reddit
Why did you leave Switzerland?
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
Many reasons including:
People act like Switzerland is paradise but it’s a place like any other. It has a lot of wonderful features but for our family the US is a better choice right now.
CaughtALiteSneez@reddit
I’m an American living here and was just curious, I can understand many of your points and have experienced some of the same.
If I were closer to my family & they didn’t live in Texas, I would perhaps consider moving back - but I find the quality of life here hard to leave.
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
It’s a LOVELY place to live in many ways. I do miss the trains / trams and being in the center of Europe. I do not miss the food 😅. But California has been good for my family. There’s an ease about being in your home country / culture, despite some dystopian things about the US writ large.
CaughtALiteSneez@reddit
California really can be great, I understand the desire to return.
If I could go there or the PNW, I would be tempted and it’s possible, but we are settled here now. We are moving cantons this Summer and that’s already a pain. 😂
Best wishes!
Union_Biker@reddit
You think things are bad in the UK and you want to move to the states? Is that a joke?
DavidVegas83@reddit
If you factor in post high school education then the education pendulum swings back in favor of California over the UK.
What made you leave the US in the first place? What has changed since you’ve moved back to the UK that has you questioning your decision?
HVP2019@reddit
I am having a very hard time believing that you’ve miscalculated that badly when you decided to move to Uk few months ago. Very few immigrants have as much information as you two.
The reasons you moved to UK should still be as important today as they were last year.
Maybe you are making somewhat less than you had originally planned, but you should make plans knowing that some things can end up to be somewhat worse ( or better) than you’d planned.
This is important because if you were to return to California with certain hopes, and if things will not go exactly how you planned right away, if things will go somewhat worse, you end up regretting again.
I am an immigrant in California. I am quite happy here. I don’t expect to live better if I were to move to another country. But if I were to leave California, and come back I don’t expect to achieve the same life in California as I had originally.
RoiCoupeCloue@reddit
Sounds like they have been back in UK for over a year
No_Lime5241@reddit
What California you living in, the one I live in is full of homeless people inflation crime degrading infrastructure declining jobs expensive housing and incompetent government
HVP2019@reddit
lol. I am not asking other people what Europe they are moving to.
Because I am sure Europe they are moving to is not the same Europe I was living in.
AccountForDoingWORK@reddit
I moved (for the third time) back to the UK in 2020 and TBH I'm done with it. I don't feel that we can move back to the US (being female, trans, or disabled - plus the other reasons we did not feel safe there, including the guns in schools). But we are actively trying to get to Canada at the moment, so I completely get you on wanting to give up on it. For some things it's so much better here (social security nets, natural environment, access to the rest of Europe obviously, we live in a much nicer place than we could afford where we used to live), but culturally it feels stagnant and it's just been a struggle to be happy here.
callipygian0@reddit
E2 visa is not great for your son. What are his options for staying in the U.S. once he’s an adult?
Im saying this as a Brit who was in the U.S. on an L and is now back in the UK but in the process of heading back to the U.S.!
hankandirene@reddit (OP)
He was born in the US so he’s a citizen / has a passport.
callipygian0@reddit
Ahhh okay that’s fine then!
We are moving back for the same reasons. I feel like we are bleeding tax and can’t afford to buy a family home where we live (zone 3 London) even on a top 1% salary.
InvincibleMirage@reddit
This is an interesting thread. I’m facing a similar decision except I’m in London, UK and considering a move back to Toronto, Canada. The economic opportunities would be worse there so it’s less compelling than your superior California option but I really miss the North American lifestyle and conveniences. I too own a home here and have kids and so some thought as to be put into it before uprooting.
owzleee@reddit
Honestly the US is going to get a lot worse before it gets better (even if Trump unalives or whatever). There have been multi-generational issues created by the current regime including loss of trust, loss of reputation and the US is also basically bankrupt (although that was strangely under-reported in the news). The UK is a mess post-Brexit (I actually left because of that) but I think over the next few years to decades it will actually be a better place to live. But it's your life and you are in control! Wishing you all the best whatever you decide xx
snbdmliss@reddit
In Europe, good salary but also super high cost of living, took huge hit coming from the US, and its very likely will move back in the future, just not sure timeline. Same cost of living in the US but double salary. Even if that jobs are less fun, being much more comfortable is a huge draw.
CanNotHavoc@reddit
Healthcare alone would keep me from going back to the States. Everyone is one major accident or illness away from not being able to work, and unless you have a job providing it, healthcare is insanely expensive. I had a good friend with a high salary tech job die in a friends guest room due to medical bills after she couldn’t work. The US has an extremely weak safety net (especially now), gun violence is high, the cost of living is high, and the political situation for non-citizens is not great at the moment. California is need the better states (I lived there for 8 years), but it’s expensive and corporations will do anything to cut costs
hankandirene@reddit (OP)
Yes but NHS here is terrible tbh. I agree it’s nice not to worry about insurance/bills but my dad had to wait 11 hours for an ambulance so I’d rather pay and get care
HotMountain9383@reddit
Excellent excellent healthcare here in the US but I pay dearly for it. It’s a trade off. No freaking way would I go back and deal with the NHS.
CanNotHavoc@reddit
You have to factor in the fact that your insurance can just deny certain treatments, cap your coverage, increase your copays and deductibles, etc. I’ve also had friends go broke from having to pay out officer for things their insurance decided they didn’t “need”
CanNotHavoc@reddit
In the States people take Ubers because an ambulance ride can be thousands of dollars
TabithaC20@reddit
People from the UK and EU that only consider how much salary they might make in the US but forget about everything else is nutso. Are you working in finance or tech I presume? Sure salary may be higher but no way would I say the quality of life in the US is better or more stable. Why one earth anyone would leave the UK or EU to live in the US is beyond me especially if you have children!!
gandolfthe@reddit
It's all sunshine and sitting in cars for hours a day in California until you get laid off suddenly and lose healthcare and your salary. Been painful to watch what happens down south with job loss.
Marino4K@reddit
Healthcare costs alone in the US would make me second think my choice of moving here from Europe.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Living in gorgeous sunny California will always be a better quality of life than England for me. Sometimes happiness is as simple as having more money, sunshine, and beaches.
carlosinLA@reddit
Doesn't the Mediterranean coast have benign weather?
It's got to be about the more money earned in finance/tech in the US because it is much simpler to move to say Majorca (not Palma) (or any other beach Mediterranean beach town), shorter flight, still Europe.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Yes, the mediterranean is a beautiful paradise. Unfortunately it also has very low salaries – although there are some great spots like Valencia. But in California, you can have both $$$ and sunshine.
TabithaC20@reddit
I used to live in CA and the majority of people are not living large like that. I think if you are rich enough it can be comfortable but the wealth disparity is huge and only getting worse with the current trajectory of the country. Not to mention shootings, crime, fire season increasing, water shortages, etc. Enjoy it while you can I suppose but I wouldn't leave a society with an actual safety net for the US right now esp if OP is established and happy.
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Not the majority of people, of course. But high-earners like OP and myself do get to enjoy that life.
TabithaC20@reddit
They also seem to only be worried about salary and not the conditions of education for their son. It's something they should absolutely look into before considering returning to US. If they don't want to go private it might be a tough go in public for their son. They seem to be housed and happy with a good school and family support systems nearby. It shouldn't only be about salary but I guess that is the priority for some!
Sosolidclaws@reddit
Yes, I agree it's worth doing lots of research and thinking on their kid's education, safety, culture!
Important-Plane-9922@reddit
Some people care only about wages sounds like that’s you.
23odyssey@reddit
Why not? Make good money, give your family a good life, put away for retirement with those good wages and then enjoy life after. What’s the problem?
Important-Plane-9922@reddit
Didn’t say it was a problem. But wages aren’t the only way to make money, nor does it actually mean people are that much better off. It’s just a simple way to look at things.
23odyssey@reddit
Maybe not having money works for you. Do you have kids?
Important-Plane-9922@reddit
Who said I didn’t have money 😂
23odyssey@reddit
It’s all in your wording. 😁
Important-Plane-9922@reddit
I could just as easily infer that you’re an absent parent 😊
23odyssey@reddit
Absolutely!
Hot_Wonder6503@reddit
Some people are broke, sound like that’s you
Important-Plane-9922@reddit
😂
hankandirene@reddit (OP)
Not at all but in this economy and the future so unstable unfortunately it really matters. And my money perspective is purely based on having a child and making sure he’s as protected for the future as possible.
CarpeQualia@reddit
Are you seriously arguing that US is a stable country/economy? Have you even opened a newspaper this past year?
Sosolidclaws@reddit
The US economy is far wealthier and more stable than the UK. You can look up the stats on average salaries, cost of living, and growth in GDP per capita.
CarpeQualia@reddit
Wealth =/= Stability
Curious-Duck@reddit
If you're worried about protecting your child's future then set up any savings account, keep them away from the land of school shootings, and revel in the free healthcare they'd have access to.
Money doesn't protect your child, a safe place to live does. A place where they don't have to worry about going bankrupt if they're sick or have active shooter drills multiple times a year at school.
Important-Plane-9922@reddit
I’m not sure they’re the same thing though. Child will be safer in the uk. The uk is more stable than the US and has more inbuilt protections and securities. Obviously wages are more in the US and all being well you’ll Be better off financially and if I’m honest that sounds like that’s what’s most important to you.
theytookallthecash@reddit
Then don't come to the US if you're looking for stability in anything. The best chance for your kid is to stay as far away from here as possible.
Bomboclaat_Babylon@reddit
I lived in Singapore for a long time and I made a lot more money than now in Vietnam, but, I save more money in Vietnam. It takes a while to get a full picture of the relative amount you can save. I got caught up for a long time in the fact that I made so much money in Singapore that I couldn't see the costs were making me save less than previous "poorer" countries. You have to factor investments, tuition costs, transport, taxes, pints, everything on balance, and it takes a year to a year and a half so to see it. Maybe you did account for all of this, but that's my 2 cents. Higher salary doesn't always equal higher wealth accumulation over time. Lots of New Yorkers make $250k and scrape by. But then again, if it really is a lot more money net, and that's the goal, and you're not tricking yourself into coming up with a reason because actually you don't like your family, or you love guns, or something you don't like to admit to yourself, then go for it. Money matters.
W2WageSlave@reddit
Did you not return once to the "Blighted Kingdom" over the past 8 years?
E2 is a bit tenuous though. Isn't it?
It was mid-1997 that I realized that the UK along with the rest of Europe were on a unstoppable headlong path of economic, demographic, and cultural suicide. It took me almost 4 years to leave the UK. 2001 on H1B, then Visa renewal, PERM, and citizenship.
There is absolutely no bloody way I would return to the the UK now.
While I would not choose to live in California, I would certainly choose it over a return the "Blighted Kingdom".
It's OK to realize that you made a mistake and take corrective action.
Be grateful you have the chance to escape. I know I am.
VerySaltyScientist@reddit
I'm in the process of doing the opposite because there is no stability in the US. Layoffs have gotten insane the last few years. Was in my third mass layoff in a row in October. Spent nearly all my time applying and never got an interview. About a month ago I gave up on trying in the US and was applying in the UK had much better luck and actually had options to pick form for job. Husband was able to transfer to the US location for his. It pays less but overall everything thing else is so much cheaper, even housing (since we didn't go to London). Everything in the US has gotten expensive as hell and the job market is just so insanely bad. It was stay in the US and hope my husband doesn't get laid off in the future while I apply for jobs to near hear back, or move where we could both have jobs.
LDR187@reddit
Im an American and I left California for overseas life and while it takes a bit to get used to i was struggling in California. Jobs are hard to come by, wages arent good enough to live a comfortable life for a family of 3. Im sure if I was a software engineer or coder id surely make more than as a project manager but its extremely expensive to stay in the US. If I went somewhere cheaper like the place I grew up in in Upstate New York id definitely save money but jobs are also a lot more limited than in larger metropolitan areas you find in CA or NYC where the cost of living is multitudes higher. Its a double edged sword. I think the problem is universal in all countries and is a result of oligarchs screwing the rest of us over.
P. S. Im not wealthy, but my saving grace is my military pension, which isnt really that much at the end of the day.
cartman2468@reddit
Food for thought, I’m in a similar boat, moved to the US ~9 years ago at 18, now I want to move back to the UK because things are getting a little bit too crazy here. The money is better here in the US, but I am trying to think more in terms of overall quality of life and work/life balance and culture differences I think I’m much more suited to England. When I’m an older man, I don’t think I’ll be sitting thinking about how I wished I had made more money, but I know id definitely be sitting there regretting not having more time off work and with my family
Former_Elk_7690@reddit
Uk way more stable than the us .
therapyinenglish@reddit
Worries are always guilt-ridden. People worry when there is something that they genuinely don't think will happen, but they take so much responsibility for every outcome in their lives (even for things beyond their control) that they can't allow themselves simply to make a decision on the basis of their own beliefs about what will be best for them. To worry that the future will need be good financially is not that same thing as actually thinking it is bad. Genuine concern motivates action, or at least consideration of it. That you worry about Britain's future financial situation and worry about schools in CA makes me think that the only thing you are certain about is your desire to keep yourself on the fence so you don't have to make a decision of take responsibility for the consequences. There's no shame in being wrong. We're all doing the best we can. Live your life according to how you think things will turn out best for you, and when you're wrong, grieve the losses and move on.
You say your quality of life was better in CA, the financial future would be better, etc. But you must be leaving out what is really keeping you in the UK, as you sound like you are trying to talk yourself into going back to CA rather than actually wanting to do so. There is something about your desire to stay in the UK that you are having a hard time stomaching, for some reason (either a major downside of CA relative to the UK you're not mentioning or a major benefit of the UK relative to CA you're not mentioning). It may actually be that you ultimately want to go back to CA, but you're not going to be able to make a considered decision that feels good until you can identify what is it about staying in the UK that is, at the moment, more appealing.
Also, this is going a bit out on a limb, but the fact that you say you don't know what exactly you're looking for also suggests that we likely have nothing to offer - you already know how you feel (perhaps too dimly to be aware of it) but for whatever reason don't want to face it.
Professional_Team438@reddit
Are you referring to the E-2 treaty visa for investors / business owners? Interested to know about the renewal. How easy / difficult to renew. Afaik the E-2 visa is non-immigrant and you’d had to pay out of state tuition at college.
acknb89@reddit
Just make sure that the E2 is still with the same company/firm hiring you because if it’s not, it would technically be an invalid E2 despite a 2027 expiry since you need to be working for the same employer if you want to continue using that visa. Otherwise you would both need to get new e2’s and apply for a new labor condition application through the department of Labor with your current / future employer. It’s all much more complicated when you leave the US.
LoInfoVoter@reddit
My comment was removed by reddit so I am reposting minus the true but “offensive”statement about what causes low ratings in some schools. Nothing I said was racist in an any way, so I suspect it’s the content of my post that’s the issue because on Reddit you can’t give credit to anything Americans do well.
I can’t speak to California, but my state of Colorado has school choice that allows any student to enroll in any public or charter school if it has openings. Our schools are focus schools. So for example, my son attends a school that focuses on aerospace engineering, robotics, and business. My other son attended a science and business focus school and now works in biotech. A neighboring school has a pre medicine focus that allows students to intern at hospitals. Every U.S. high school offers college classes and every student is encouraged to take one AP class even if they don’t get college credit. Colorado has a program for high school students called CU Succeeds that allows students to take CU classes for credit (my son took the classes at his high school). These students graduate with a CU transcript for those classes. The best middle schools and high schools in Colorado offer advanced pathways in mathematics for gifted kids. It is possible to take three years of calculus in high school for example. I know kids who have graduated with 48-70 college credits. Colorado also has a program that reimburses two years of college tuition for families making less than $95K. And, Colorado is in a western alliance where Colorado residents have the option to go to other public universities within this alliance and pay in-state tuition.
This post is entirely true and is way to verify with your own research.
mt8675309@reddit
You need to stay, your home and family are a reason to stay there in the long run. Warm sunny weather, unmatched produce, endless beaches and amazing restaurants aren’t what they’re cracked up to be.
6683skywalker@reddit
Isn’t an E2 visa tied to a specific employer? If you leave the job, the visa gets automatically cancelled and you would need to go through a complete new application process with a new employer? Worth checking before you decide to uproot your life again.
hankandirene@reddit (OP)
The employer has kept visa open for us - we are very close to him.
LoInfoVoter@reddit
I can’t speak to California specifically, but here in Colorado we have school choice so children can attend any public or charter school they want if the school has openings. All U.S. high schools offer college classes (AP or IB) and all high schools students are encouraged to take at least one AP class even if they don’t get college credit. In Colorado it is also possible to take CU Succeeds college classes and graduate with a CU transcript. Our high schools (and some middle schools) are focus schools. So for example, your child could go to a school that focuses on aerospace engineering, business, and robotics, like my son’s school. A neighboring school focuses on pre medicine and allows students to intern in hospitals. My other son went to a science focus school and now works in bio tech. There are other schools that focus on music and performing arts, etc etc. All schools (not sure about California) offer an advanced math pathway so that the very gifted can take three years of calculus in high school conceivably. I know kids who graduated with 48-70 college credits.
When you see low ratings for schools, you can be sure that those schools either have high immigrant communities (children enter schools illiterate or without any English) or are in very poor, depressed urban cities.
Trust me, as someone who went to school in England, the U.S. education system is very very good.
Acrobatic_Box9087@reddit
It's difficult to give you any advice without knowing more about your situation. What type of work do you do? How much did you earn in California? How much in the UK? Where did you live in California?