Paraphernalia Possession Charge

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Few_Party294@reddit

Sucks that he wrote it up as drug paraphernalia when you use it for loose leaf tobacco, since you roll your own cigarettes. Right? Right?!?!

But for real. Contact AMAS and talk through it with them. They helped me out several years ago. I got a marijuana charge (minor misdemeanor drug abuse) back in 2011. Currently hold a First Class medical and fly a jet. You’ll be ok, just might take some time to sort it out. Keep your nose clean from now on.

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

Thank you Party. Sharing your experience provides reassurance for when everything is going bad.

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Ok-Selection4206@reddit

I don't think anyone has compassion for people that fly and have a DUI or use drugs or have drug paraphernalia in their car. Flying and illegal drugs do not mix. I know you are going to say weed is not illegal where you live. News flash, its illegal in the US at the federal level everywhere. The people that decide your fate as far as your medical and pilot certificates are FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES! Don't be such an idiot!

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Recent-Day3062@reddit

Oh come on. People get DUI’s often because they have that one drink more and blow a .081. People have compassion for that.

But your rant about illegal drugs shows you have a personal axe to grind. You clearly Think that is worse than alcohol.

Look at your downvotes and preach somewhere else

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Ok-Selection4206@reddit

I don't have an axe to grind about either one. I also don't have a soft spot for people that break the law. Doing illegal drugs anytime is not something that sits well with the FAA, it's really not rocket science.

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massunderestmated@reddit

An honest reading of this post reveals that, despite your military, business ownership, and education status, your perspective is "I am special and the rules shouldn't apply to me." That is an extremely dangerous attitude to fly with. There is no time or place when it is legal to use marijuana in this country under federal law. It is acceptable to drink alcohol withon reason. It is acceptable to drive a car. What makes that crime illegal is miscalculating duration of time between event A and event B. Possession of marijuana, especially in a state where it is clearly illegal, requires a deliberate choice to disregard the law. It also requires a deliberate choice to consume a drug which is prohibited for flying. The difference between the two makes people who choose to fly and abide by the law mistrust you.

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FriendlyBelligerent@reddit

No, the perspective is "this law is outdated and stupid, and should apply to no one"

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massunderestmated@reddit

As a person who used to partake in my younger years, I fully support absolute abstinence from controlled substances for people who fly planes and operate commercial motor vehicles. It's not our place to decide which regulations we want to follow and which ones are stupid. That sort of normalization gets people killed sooner or later.

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FriendlyBelligerent@reddit

Unless you feel the same for alcohol, this position is inconsistent and irrational (and if you do feel the same for alcohol, it's irrational albeit consistent). Is this a profession or a priesthood?

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massunderestmated@reddit

There is a regulation for when it is acceptable to fly after drinking alcohol. 8 hours. After a drug conviction, there is a 2 year waiting period before you can be medically certified. Feel free to question the regulations all you want, but I'm going to follow them. It's no great sacrifice. Many people have said this here before: flying or marijuana, pick one. I couldn't agree more. I'm not against weed at all. I just don't want pilots over my head who ignore regulations that they don't agree with. I live under the approach of both a class bravo and a private grass strip half a mile away. I need to trust that the people over my house and my family are playing by the rules. It's not that hard to find another way to relax, if for no other reason than protecting the public trust. I gave it up a long time ago. Figured if I wanted to fly it was time to grow up.

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FriendlyBelligerent@reddit

It's an irrational regulation based on cultural conservatism. If you want to argue that commercial pilots should follow it because of the danger of normalizing deviance, but PPL holders shouldnt need a medical at all

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massunderestmated@reddit

I'm sure the non-flying public feels safe with stoners buzzing around overhead with cataracts and one cheeseburger short of a cardiac arrest when the evening news shows clips of ga aircraft coming down off-field once or twice a week.

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FriendlyBelligerent@reddit

I fail to see the massive surge in GA accidents injuring bystanders since SPL and Basic med were introduced. Think, don't feel

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bhalter80@reddit

I just don't want pilots over my head who ignore regulations that they don't agree with.

This sentence is the key. You either follow all of the rules or you embrace normalizing deviance. I don't think anyone is enough of a paragon of virtue to say they've never violated a reg but many (most?) have never _intentionally_ violated a reg

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FriendlyBelligerent@reddit

I think if you want to analyze from a logical or moral perspective, you have to include the fact that this particular regulation is based on culturally conservative policy decisions rather than actual safety considerations.

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bhalter80@reddit

I'm not sure that really matters because it's not up to me to decide what the real rules are.

There are lots of bluntly written rules which come from an accident, it's not for me to decide if that's an accident that's applicable to me

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FriendlyBelligerent@reddit

Is this one of those rules?

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bhalter80@reddit

Not for me to judge

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

Sorry that my post was interpreted that way. Just wanted to ask about common observations I’ve noticed in this Reddit forum and share my experience. Thanks for your input.

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Buzz407@reddit

Was there any actual drugs in the grinder? Even residue?

I'm not a lawyer but you could just as easily be grinding actual oregano in it. Intent matters. It is why it is important not to volunteer anything during your conversation with police. What was the probable cause for the search?

On the surface it sounds like your civil rights were violated. Hopefully your lawyer is solid.

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Felony_vandal@reddit

The probable cause was that it smelled like weed idk why OP thought we wouldn’t figure that out

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chicagoderp@reddit

As a business owning ex-military guy I no longer thing laws apply to me. When I break the law I expect a “thank you for your service” response.

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

I was just a passenger in the vehicle. I didn’t volunteer any unnecessary/additional information, however some of the details is a blur.

The narrative states that there was residue in the grinder. Probable cause for a search was based of the odor which is valid in TN.

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Buzz407@reddit

I'm serious about legalization but if you're out smoking in a car (or riding with people who are), IMO you need smacked on the hand super hard for that. You'll probably be OK legally but it is stupid and irresponsible. Speaking as someone who got permanently screwed up by someone who was DUI in TN, my sympathy has now evaporated.

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RaiderAce5974@reddit

Living in a state where weed is legal bordering another state where weed is legal i forgot that you could even get in trouble for this anymore.

I think you should be fine when it comes to the FAA. They care alot more about motor vehicle operations while under the influence and i dont think this is even reportable to them. But again. Legal counsel would still be advised just in case.

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ltcterry@reddit

Living in a state where weed is legal bordering another state where weed is legal...

I think you should be fine when it comes to the FAA.

It's not legal in either state "when it comes the FAA."

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RaiderAce5974@reddit

I was a federal employee for 6 years. Im aware. But you dont have to report everything to the FAA. They spell out what actually is reportable.

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Ok-Selection4206@reddit

You do have to report misdemeanors to the FAA while taking your medical under 18W, "History of Non-Traffic Convictions."

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RaiderAce5974@reddit

Keyword on that is “convictions”. If it gets thrown out OP is still in the clear.

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Raptor05121@reddit

No. Question 18 is "have you ever been ARRESTED for ANY offense involving drugs or alcohol"

OP has to answer YES to that for the rest of his life.

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RaiderAce5974@reddit

But OP never got arrested. He literally said no arrests were made in the post. It was a citation with a notice to appear in court.

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Raptor05121@reddit

oh well I am a pilot. Reading comprehension is not my strong suit. Carryon

Should be a nothingburger for him then. Good lawyer should be able to get it dropped

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RaiderAce5974@reddit

All good man. Iv definitely questioned my reading abilities before to.

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Ok-Selection4206@reddit

That is why I didn't just say get a "non-traffic related misdemeanor"

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Mountain-Captain-396@reddit

Drug paraphernalia is very different from possession of drugs

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

Would you like to expand on this logic? I’m interested.

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Mountain-Captain-396@reddit

Drug paraphernalia doesn't imply any actual illegal substances in possession at the time, nor does it imply that he was driving under the influence of illegal substances.

Paraphernalia is just that, paraphernalia. He wasn't arrested for having, using, or abusing illegal drugs.

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

Any haters that feel they need to downvote. Please keep it to yourself. There are real people, who need real help, and this thread can be that for them. Past, Present, and Future.

When you’re sending your down votes, it’s hindering us together.

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chicagoderp@reddit

Respectfully, you seem to think being ex-military, a business owner, etc, somehow excuse you from being charged with crimes. That’s the impression I get, at least.

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

I was just trying to give context in the eyes of the court system historically operates.

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chicagoderp@reddit

Our country is a mess because we hold people accountable to different levels. We’re harsh on crime for some people, and other people “don’t deserve to have their life ruined over one mistake.”

I’m very sympathetic towards your position regarding r/flying view on alcohol vs. marijuana, but you knew what you were potentially getting yourself into with your friend. Now it’s time to pay the piper for your decisions.

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Bulky_Ad_4545@reddit

gosh you're smug

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chicagoderp@reddit

Brother what is smug about my comment?

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Frosty_Piece7098@reddit

But he’s not wrong. Flying is my career, I’m not hanging out with people who use drugs, they aren’t gonna be my friends, if I see it I go the opposite direction.

This is the mature position to take if you take your medical seriously.

I feel for OP but this should be a lesson for anyone observing that weed (or any THC product) shouldn’t be anywhere around you if you want to be an aviator. Yeah, I agree it’s dumb and puritanical but it’s the way it is.

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chuckop@reddit

As they should

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

I see your point though

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TruthBomb@reddit

So did you admit to the cop it was yours or did everyone in the car get charged with possession because nobody took ownership? Do you smoke pot regularly or were you truly the victim of unfortunate circumstance?

Smoking pot and flying simply don’t mix at all. People on this sub take these issues seriously because we see reports of intoxication being a primary cause in crashes very regularly. Not just pot but any substance that limits your decision making skills.

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

I may have admitted that it was mine, but kind of hard to remember because my adrenaline and cortisol was spiked! So nervous.

I can confidently say that it was presumed to be mine and I was cited for it. I only smoked during post-military service time. So wouldn’t say regularly.

Voluntarily Separated ➡️ 2 Weeks Later ➡️ Unlawful Possession of Drug Paraphernalia.

Not flying, so may have wanted to partake after years of service and between transitioning to a No-Drug use career.

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TruthBomb@reddit

I wish you the best and thank you for your service. As others have said, a lawyer is the only person to help you here. Just know that marijuana is 100% safe until you combine it with other activities like driving and flying. Be safe and god bless.

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Avi8tor21@reddit (OP)

Thanks Truth, good words of advice. God bless you as well.

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Mike__O@reddit

Well, for one thing I don't think anyone in this sub or in general has compassion for DUIs. People who post about them get rightly dragged over the coals.

As far as your case-- this is something you need to contact an attorney about. You'll need a criminal attorney to handle your charges, and likely will need to take advantage of AOPA's legal services regarding any issues with your certificate and/or medical.

Don't come to Reddit or other social media for advice on stuff like this. This is a pretty serious matter and random people on the internet are not your best source of information.

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PlasticDiscussion590@reddit

Find a good lawyer, get it thrown out. Don’t report anything to the FAA until you talk with an aviation lawyer, who you may want to get in touch with with now.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

What’s up with the scrutiny with DUI versus simple drug charges? Seems like the community has compassion for those with DUIs, and zero tolerance for those with a drug charge.

Yesterday I was in the car with a friend of mine. We were pulled over and subjected to a probable cause search. The officer found drug paraphernalia (A Grinder) in the car inside and charged me for it. I was only cited for “possession of drug paraphernalia” Class A Misdemeanor. No arrests, first time offense.

I hold my PPL, and honorably separated from the military two weeks prior to this. Also a business owner. Re-attending school next month and more flight lessons later this year.

The officer gave me a hard lesson and said told me that this case was likely to be dismissed by the DA, saying that they have bigger issues to worry about.

Any advice or feedback is welcomed. Already in the process of finding a lawyer for representation.

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