573 years ago today Ottoman army under Mehmet the Conqueror besieged the city of Constantinople
Posted by Yarrrak31@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 391 comments
How is this event perceived in your country?
Prince_Hastur@reddit
Turks when celebrating conquests of foreign lands: 😎🥳
Turks when those lands celebrate kicking them out: 😡😭
VentsiBeast@reddit
They have very well developed national pride. I can see every car has some Turkish symbol, usually right next to their German plate.
auroralemonboi8@reddit
Most Turks in germany are more nationalistic than most turks in turkey lmao
VentsiBeast@reddit
I wonder why would anyone who voluntarily went to live in another country, and can come back at any time to his original country, but doesn't want to, be nationalistic? Do you have an explanation?
auroralemonboi8@reddit
Native germans dont see them as german, the german government did a poor job of integrating them, and they sometimes get discriminated, so turks in germany made their own turkish communities. People need a sense of belonging to a community, which is why diasporas turn to their ancestry, or act nationalistic
VentsiBeast@reddit
Ah, so it's the Germans' fault. Got it.
auroralemonboi8@reddit
Not really blaming any german person here. It was just the government who made the mistake thinking that millions of guest workers would simply leave germany after their contract was over. And since they were originally guest workers the government didnt invest in their intergation
VentsiBeast@reddit
"Germans' fault" with the apostrophe after the "s" means collectively the Germans.
This still doesn't answer my question though - you say these people stayed in Germany after their contracts expired - there must be a reason for this. The reason is they liked Germany much better than Turkey, even with all the discrimination and whatever. So they knowingly stayed in a country that dislikes them, but they wave the flags of the country which they migrated from, a country where they wouldn't return to if it pays them.
auroralemonboi8@reddit
You are trying to find logic in nationalism. There is none
VentsiBeast@reddit
More specifically nationalism in people who voluntarily left their countries and can go back literally immediately.
bored-and-asleep@reddit
The ones that are conservative usually went for a short time to work in there. Then they establish families,jobs there, buy houses. Children born and grow up there. They dont wanna come back after getting used to living there naturally. But they are still low class and discriminated become even more conservative and nationalistic. The ones that got there via brain drain isnt nationalistic and conservative. They also belong to higher class, educated and naturally more accepted. They intigrate into society instead.
Longjumping-Bid-2212@reddit
said by a Bulgarian living in Germany
VentsiBeast@reddit
I'm a Bulgarian living in Bulgaria.
No-Two6412@reddit
A rare nature phenomena
herhangibirperson@reddit
Serbs when they genocide Bosniaks and create a separatist entity: 😎🥳
Serbs when they are not allowed to genocide Albanians and Kosovo wants indepencence: 😡😭
Fast_Advantage_9790@reddit
Turks when immigrants knive attack locals and cause trouble in Turkey: 😡🔥🧔🏾♂️🚫🇹🇷
Turks when Turk immigrants do the same in Europe: 😡👉🏼🤥
herhangibirperson@reddit
Europeans when they have to take in a couple thousand immigrants: "😭😭😭😭😫🚫"
Europeans when Turks complain about millions of immigrants: "😡😡😡😡"
bored-and-asleep@reddit
They didnt have to take too they wanted to take, we arent refugees those arent same thing. Immigrants and refugees are a lot different stuff.
Fast_Advantage_9790@reddit
Turks when Bosnian genocide is mentioned: 🙏🙏😢😢😿😿☪️☪️☪️
Turks when Armenian super extreme genocide is mentioned: 🇹🇷🦅😡😡😡😡👉🏼👉🏼👉🏼👉🏼🤥🤥🤥🤥
herhangibirperson@reddit
Balkaners when Armenian genocide is mentioned: 😭😭😭😭😭✝️✝️✝️✝️🙏🙏🙏🙏
Balkaners when the ethnic cleansing of Turks by Balkaners is mentioned: 🤣🤪✝️🇧🇬🇬🇷🇷🇸🇲🇪
casca14@reddit
Why does europe “have” to take thousands of of subhumans tho?
Fault23@reddit
huh
bored-and-asleep@reddit
Like every other country? Especially if conquest ended and started an era.
Zrva_V3@reddit
Turkish embassy literally congratulates most Balkan nations on their independence day (from us). Even the ones that resulted in thousands of Turkish and Muslim civilians dying.
Conquest of Constantinople meanwhile is not an official national day and celebrations are very limited. Most people don't even know the date.
Citaku357@reddit
Majority of those Muslims were native Albanians
RedditStrider@reddit
Depends on the region, alot of muslim civilians were turkmens that were made to settle in balkans through Iskan Policy.
Razor_EDG@reddit
doesnt that make it worse?
Citaku357@reddit
Absolutely
Longjumping-Bid-2212@reddit
Nop bro all greek
Longjumping-Bid-2212@reddit
MajorEmploy1500@reddit
Sad day for Rome enthousiasts
Arbaces420@reddit
Pretty much like the Fall of Rome in 476
Abortifetus@reddit
"The middle ages are the time between the fall of the roman empire and the fall of the roman empire"
AJ_Stangerson@reddit
This is genius. I cannot find the source of this quote, and if you made it up, you are not getting enough credit for it.
Abortifetus@reddit
I heard it on a podcast, but i don't know the original source either
kakafob@reddit
Pretty much like the end of the old Roman Empire.
JignerdSaw@reddit
From what I recall just the end of the Medieval ages and a comparison to how the Fall of the Western Roman Empire brought the start of the Medieval Ages.
Obviously it’s more complicated than that and both collapses are quite different. The fall of the Western Roman Empire has an entire theory that it never collapsed but just transformed into multiple states that are centrally organised by bishops under a similar bureaucratic structure like Rome. This is without mentioning how Western Rome fell more due to diseases and climate change than war or barbarians attacking and being crown kings. Looking at Constantinople, it wasn’t in any peak as it was already invaded by the crusaders with the help from Venice and Viking mercenaries two centuries before the Ottomans came with canons.
And it’s not like you can compare how Barbarians acted in Western Roman to the Ottomans to the Eastern one. A lot of barbarian tribes became Roman citizens and an important part of the army historically in their conquests. It’s just that the ones in the later periods were given less privilege than past barbarian who emigrated into the Empire, which lead to civil wars. While the Ottoman Empire was a fully fledged sovereign nation invading another one.
Abortifetus@reddit
"The middle ages are the time between the fall of the roman empire and the fall of the roman empire"
optionstrategy@reddit
Pretty much the beginning of the 5 century long dark ages...fuck.
Dardan_Gashi@reddit
This moment re-shaped the history of the Balkan region.
Frosty-Feeling338@reddit
True , Greece never forgets
qwerty_fu@reddit
Nothing happened to greece. It's happened to EASTERN ROMAN EMPIRE.
seriouslysrs121@reddit
Laughable statement
qwerty_fu@reddit
Read some history from real historians. Not from reels
Frosty-Feeling338@reddit
🤣🤣🤣, you don’t even know the history !
qwerty_fu@reddit
You know? Ok explain me
Natural_Scholar_1502@reddit
The Eastern Roman Empire spoke Greek and worshipped in the Greek Orthodox Church. Stop playing semantics.
bored-and-asleep@reddit
But they were A Roman empire that conquered Greece. It is like saying Ottoman empire would be Greek if they just did same stuff too.
Natural_Scholar_1502@reddit
Are you talking about DNA or culture? My parents are Greek but I am a US citizen. See the difference?
Frosty-Feeling338@reddit
I’m not your tutor , if you wanted to learn the truth , you would know it !
Iapetus404@reddit
The reality is Turkey still have under occupation our capital.
Athens never was our Capital until 1834.
and if we manage to liberate Constantinople in WW1, that would be our capital city today!
gp18__@reddit
Not well. Tbh I find it weird that it is celebrated in Turkey, it was a big victory for sure, but it was a war of conquest where a lot of bad things happened. It's one thing to celebrate a battle that liberated or you fought of the invading nazis or something and another to celebrate a conquestm
NetHistorical5113@reddit
We got the best city in the world. If that isn't worth celebrating then I don't know what is
VentsiBeast@reddit
You got it and you turned it into the mess it is today.
Yarrrak31@reddit (OP)
It being a mess is a recent phenomenon. It was beautiful just 40-50 years ago. During peak Ottoman era it mogged every European city
Lorumba@reddit
Yeah notice how ottomans best city achieved by conquering and not building. Istanbul was surely great, balkans were tolerable but people in anatolia built their homes with cowshit the infastructure was built by themselves. Can you take pride in an empire that didnt even give two fucks about their own people and even criminalized calling oneself a turk?
bored-and-asleep@reddit
I agree on that even in anatolia you would mostly find Seljuklu stuff not Ottoman era stuff. Even in western parts of the Turkey where they conquered way way later on. While Ottoman empire started. They didnt build much, their whole beurocracy and governmental structure wasnt sustainable and was a mess in my opinion.
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Öyle ya da böyle. 1453te İstanbul fethedilmeseydi bugün binlerce Euro harcamadan İstanbulu göremezdin
Lorumba@reddit
You know that britain occupied the city and we took it from them via agreements right? They couldve made it easier for us but the crusade also made it easier for the ottomans too. You would be living in a landlocked, invaded and partitioned country if we went with the ottoman way.
NetHistorical5113@reddit
I wonder why they did those agreements. Definitely not because we defeated them in battle many times, right?
Lorumba@reddit
Thats because britain didnt have enough resources to supply greeks and fortify istanbul. There were anti-war protests in britain demanding cutting the resources spent on greece because people were living poorly and didnt want british soldiers on foreign soil. If britain continued with their attitude of keeping istanbul and the bosphorus the istanbul would surely fall because they are fighting on lands far away from their mainland.
Also holding a city that will surely fall against a dedicated and newly formed goverment would not give them any benefits rahther increase their losses.
Ataturk played his cards right british avoided more losses and greeks got peace.
They did not give us istanbul because they lost wars to ottomans in the past.
Yarrrak31@reddit (OP)
Only the yellow part was Constantinople. The rest was built from scratch. The fuck is wrong with you?
Lorumba@reddit
We are talking about ottoman era bro the rest was built by the republic. Your ignorance sickens me.
VentsiBeast@reddit
How do you know this? I was in Istanbul for the first time about 30-32 years ago and it was already quite the mess.
Most large European cities are/were prettier and their beauty is well preserved today.
NetHistorical5113@reddit
1980's were a disaster. Millions moved from rural areas en masse. From 1500s to 1980's it was very beautiful. And it improved a lot in the last decades. Even with the refuges the city is better than how it was in 1990s
VentsiBeast@reddit
I'm not arguing about the safety. It is safer.
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
Pierre Loti was in love with this city. Every time I read about it, I fell in love with it too.
Yarrrak31@reddit (OP)
Millions of villagers from Anatolia started to move to Istanbul in the 60s. Add millions of refugees too. Today real Istanbulites are a tiny minority. It was beautfiul when it only had 2-3 million people.
During peak Ottoman era Istanbul was larger and more developed than any European city so saying the city turned into a mess right after falling to the ottomans is wrong. It still had glory for 500+ years
Fault23@reddit
It wasn't a mess in ottoman times tho
Lizard_Of_Roz@reddit
I agree it was a mess for a while but it’s been going through a renaissance as of late, and quite beautiful now. You should come visit.
Source: Me, a born and raised Istanbulite who still visits occasionally.
VentsiBeast@reddit
Mate, Istanbul is only 4-5 hour drive from my hometown, I visit when I'm bored or whatever, have visited more than 20 times for sure, last time was in January. It's a mess.
Lizard_Of_Roz@reddit
Why do you keep going back if it’s such a mess?
VentsiBeast@reddit
Fair question.
As I said it's close to where I live and both me and my wife really like Turkish food.
Iranicboy15@reddit
It’s a city of 16 million which has grown rapidly in the last 55yrs from 3 million.
London metro area in the same time grew from 7.5millin to 13.5 million .
London, Paris and many other major European cities also looked really bad were even worse than Istanbul before 1945, due to these cities also growing rapidly and industrialising before the Second World War.
Additionally if you honour of many core regions of European cities , they look a mess, outside of old Venice, the mainland was terrible I was shocked at how bad the infrastructure was, and this isn’t just true for Venice but many other Italians cities and many other European cities.
Quirkybomb930@reddit
the city was a mess before they took it
VentsiBeast@reddit
I'm only speaking of today, wasn't alive back then to examine and compare it with the others.
Gloomy-Potato6280@reddit
Ranked 5th on the list of the most-visited cities in 2025, just 2 million visitors behind London, it may not be the best city in the world, but it is definitely one of the top three cities in the world
VentsiBeast@reddit
Most visited by who? People from worse areas in Turkey.
Plus the very convenient Turkish airlines which artificially inflate the tourists data.
I'm sorry, I've been to Istanbul probably 20+ times and it's one of the worst large citites in Europe, beaten only by Athens, Naples and idk what else.
And just not to be completely negative - your Adana kebap is my absolutely favorite dish and I rank Turkish cuisine as #1 worldwide. But Istanbul is still a mess.
Bilmemkineyapsam@reddit
I’m pretty sure that guy wasn’t involved in that at all.
VentsiBeast@reddit
I'm pretty sure "you" in English is also plural.
polenlerinamk@reddit
Stop rage bating and answer the guys question if you can
VentsiBeast@reddit
What's the question?
David_Serbanescu_07@reddit
The funny thing is, it's no longer the best city in the world lol
Lorumba@reddit
It is not celebrated in turkey?
EmpyreanEmperor1@reddit
Conquest and Imperialism is only bad when it happens to them, not for them.
Kohonis@reddit
Crusaders sacked Constantinople in the IV th crusade. Then they left the Byzantines prey to the Ottomans. Surely they are no better than them in this matter.
lastmonday07@reddit
Bulgarians and Serbians already backstabbing Byzantines thru the ages even after they converted to Christianity. Much before Crusaders and Ottomans fyi.
Abvgd3@reddit
Neither Serbs nor Bulgarians were strong enough to represent any real danger to Byzantium, especially in 15th century, 300 years before ? maybe...
MartinBP@reddit
There was hardly any Byzantium by the 15th century, it was just Constantinople and some surroundings. Bulgaria was 3 separate states at the time.
Abvgd3@reddit
Yes, but not any of them had a conflict with Byzantium at the time. Fall of Constantinople was purely on Crusaders
dpenchev@reddit
The fall of Constantinople had close to nothing to do with the crusaders. And that's only if you take it as a result of the general fall of the Byzantium. In reality at the time Constantinople was the already dead carcass of once great coty, staying still "free", becouse its defenses was making it to hard to conquer, giving that the ottomans had bigger gish to fry in the Mediterranean and central Europe.
As for the crusaders themselves - they didn't do any favors sacking the city, but the empire as a whole was already declining and fast. And it did happen 2 centuries prior.
We all know in Europeand especially on the Balkans there is no lost love for the ottomans, but they deserve some credit here. Their military was orders of magnitude superior to what the byzantines or the bulgars could muster. And they did hit the perfect timing to attack - the Balkans were in turmoil filled with small kingdoms vying for power. And if they didn't had the misfortune of extremely wet season, chances are Wien would've fallen too in 1529.
seriouslysrs121@reddit
Let me stop you right there
dpenchev@reddit
The last crusade to the holy lands was 180 years before the fall of Constantinople. The narrative you're all here pushing is silly and naive. With this logic the 3rd reich fell becouse of the napoleonic wars.
lastmonday07@reddit
Yes they didnt "represent any real danger" but wanted to have some wars just 8 centuries for practice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Serbian_wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Bulgarian_wars
lastmonday07@reddit
You really should do some serious reading on Medieval history..
Old_Passenger7@reddit
This is not true. Why do you make up things?
lastmonday07@reddit
I made up things?? Maybe its time for you to meet with history;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Bulgarian_wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Serbian_wars
Old_Passenger7@reddit
I read just for Serbs,
until Car Dusan whole conflict was regarding super small incidents like bandits and piracy.
Car Dusan took some territories in 14th century which where lost soon after, but that was after the Ottomans.
LibertyChecked28@reddit
Bulgaria didn't want to see Byzantium completely gone as it was more than able to recognise the danger of outside conquests.
Tervel helped the Byzantines against the Arabs back in 8th century, and so did Kaloyan against the Latin Empire in 13th century.
FalseRegister@reddit
*Romans
Nobody called them Byzantines
StinkRinky@reddit
It makes sense to call them byzantines now though. Easier than saying Eastern Rome and seems kind of silly to call them anything else.
FalseRegister@reddit
They were Romans, acknowledged like that by Turks/Ottomans, Egyptians, Scandinavians... even by the west kingdoms early on, before everyone was fighting to be the heir of someone still alive.
The silly thing is to call the Roman empire by the name of a city that was there before they re-found it as their new capital. Just call them Rome or East Rome.
NicRapt@reddit
I find it hard to understand how you can celebrate and be happy about the conquest of a city that had nothing to do with you. It wasn't any kind of liberation or independence; it was simply an expansionist war. I truly want to believe and hope that in 2026, people of this kind are a minority.
Yarrrak31@reddit (OP)
There is nothing wrong with expanding your army and becoming stronger. Everybody wants that. Some just did it too long ago so nobody even remembers it or couldn't do it. We are proud of the fact our ancestors were powerful enough to conquer the land of their weaker enemies. You really think we should insult our ancestors for being too good at war? No sane person would just sit around doing nothing when they have a massive army while surrounded by weaker enemies
NicRapt@reddit
I’ll just keep hoping that your kind is in the minority by now.
Yarrrak31@reddit (OP)
Are you Greek? What do you think about your fellow Greeks celebrating Alexander the Great who is famous for conquering Persia?
NicRapt@reddit
First of all, nobody in Greece is actually 'celebrating' anything regarding Alexander the Great. Secondly, I agree that he was a conqueror with expansionist goals. However, historians generally agree (based on available sources) that he differed from other brutal conquerors. Beyond just seizing territory, he spread culture to tribes that were still primitive, respected local religions, and often kept local kings in power if they pledged loyalty. So, my point is: first, Greeks don't celebrate his conquests; we simply view him as a great and significant historical figure (as does most of the world). Second, based on historical evidence, he was a more 'civilized' conqueror, though obviously, atrocities still occurred.
VentsiBeast@reddit
The fall of Constantinople is arguably one of the worst things that happened in the Balkans. No amount of wars between Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece and whatever, comes close to this tragedy.
Comfortable_Card9611@reddit
Why is this a tragedy?
VentsiBeast@reddit
Why is conquering land and slaughtering the local people a tragedy, I really can't think of a good answer.
Comfortable_Card9611@reddit
If You are thinking that conquering a land is bad, and We really slaughtered the people there, I can't help you buddy.
VentsiBeast@reddit
I'm sure the city just fell voluntarily. Nobody was killed, r-ped or anything. Mostly peaceful conquest.
Comfortable_Card9611@reddit
Orthobrah52102@reddit
Why are Turks the only ones that don't actually know their history? In America, and by and large most Western countries, we are taught the atrocities committed by our ancestors generations ago, and vehemently told we should never allow it to happen again.
Seems like every Turk I meet, they either deny the fucked up shit they did, or say "they deserved it", or an ironic combination of both.
Electrical-Card-9333@reddit
As a turk living in Türkiye i can say that most of my classmates or the people i see around doesn't really care about the history but they do care about the feelings historic events give them, and the ones who know history or ones who studies skip the parts that we done some fucked up shit and most of the lessons we take exclude that parts, yea some of us know we done some fucked up shits, massacres, slaughters etc. but same things done to us too, like massacres towards balkan turks (forced name changes, slaughters), or toward cyprus turks (i remember reading an article about slaughtered turk villager, which she was pregnant when she's killed and bandits opened her chest, took her heart out, take the baby out and sliced the baby's head off). Overall as i can see on the internet everyone focused on the killings we done but when its time to see the killings done to us everybody plays the 3 monkeys and that upsets us some of us say "they deserved it" because end of the day everyone blames us because we had an empire and that empire done some shits as every other empire do. (Sorry for my bad english, i am still studying it)
Sad_Cup7899@reddit
Slaughtered people ? Hahaha! Literally Byzantine prince mesih palaigolos and has murad palaigolos became grand vezirs after a few years I, read history mate
VentsiBeast@reddit
I'm sure the city just fell voluntarily. Nobody was killed, r-ped or anything. Mostly peaceful conquest.
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
So what?
Not just him. And before and after. This does not mean that they were no slaughters. Boo hahaha stupid
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
I vehemently condemn this unprecedented event in the world, where a city has been occupied.
qwerty_fu@reddit
Personally, it was tragedy. Many deaths, slaves and tears. Second Rome has fallen.
PruneOk9712@reddit
sarrr i am leftis liberal or islamic liberal saarrr
qwerty_fu@reddit
İkiside değilim kanka
PruneOk9712@reddit
aynen. yalaka seni. Yunanlılar anadoluyu işgal ettiğinde çoluk çocuk yaşlı demeden herkesi katletti. Hadi vatansızsın ama roma anadoluyu aldığında çicek dağıtarak mı aldı.
qwerty_fu@reddit
Türküm vatansız değilim öncelikle. Yunan da değilim Yunanlar masum da demiyorum. Ama okuduğunu anlamayınca böyle oluyor. Kimin yalakasıymışım? Kimseye yaranma ihtiyacım yok. Kafanıza göre yazdığınız tarihe inanmaya devam.
PruneOk9712@reddit
Tamam humanistiz. Biz kafamıza göre tarih yazdık. Yunanlıların tarihine inanmaya devam et. Onlar bizim kurtuluş savaşımızı tersten yazmıştı. Topraklarımızı işgal ettikleri halde utanmadan Türkler anadoluyu işgal etti demişlerdi. Bu arada fetihler sırasında ölümler normal. Çünkü savaş halindeler. Buna rağmen Fatih çok medeni davranıp kimseyi katletmeyip kozmopolit bir şehir inşaa etmeye çalışmıştır.
qwerty_fu@reddit
Lan kafayı yersin daha yunan diyor hahahaha hay Yunan kadar taş düşsün başına tutturdun yunan da yunan çok mu korkuyorsun birader yunanlardan?
PruneOk9712@reddit
Senin gibi saar diyenlerden korkmalıyız
Pompaci3125@reddit
Batılı efendilerinin taştaşlarını iyi yalıyorsun dostum.
qwerty_fu@reddit
Kaldı ki, yaşanan acılara üzülmeyen insan değildir. İstanbul'u Türkler olarak resmen yağmaladık. Bu bir sır değil. Ha bir tek biz yağmalamadık, 1204'te senin batılı dediğin adamlar da yağmaladı. Açın az tarihinizi araştırın. Bizans Yunan değildir.
Erozbey@reddit
Ortaçağa hoşgeldin. Herkes fetheder, yağmalar, ele geçirir.
qwerty_fu@reddit
Karşı çıkmadım. Zaten dediğim gibi ilk biz yağmalamadık. Sadece yağmalanan kim ve ne olursa olsun üzücü. Roma'nın pek çok eserleri ve tarihi savaşlarda kayboldu, çalındı veya yıkıldı. Üzücü değil mi sence de?
Erozbey@reddit
Tarihi eserler için üzgünüm tabi. Ama o dönemin normali bu. Hatta günümüzün de normali bu. dünya savaşı sonrası İstanbul bizde değilken bir ton şeyi alıp götürdüler ve keşke geri alabilsek. Bu konuda seninle hemfikirim.
Yarrrak31@reddit (OP)
Sen ne olsun istiyon yarram
qwerty_fu@reddit
Hiçbirşey
Yarrrak31@reddit (OP)
Bir şeye hakkında keşke olmasaydı tarzında konuşuyorsan bir alternatif sunacaksın kOÇ. Söyle anlayalım derdini
qwerty_fu@reddit
Ne alaka amcık alman adamım doğu romayla ne işi olur. DOĞU Romanın batıyla alakasını anlamadım.
Comfortable_Card9611@reddit
qwerty_fu@reddit
Osmanlı benim ne kadar atamsa, Bizans da o kadar atamdır. Anadolunun çocuklarıyız biz. Ben Osmanlıyla da gurur duyarım, Bizans'la da. Kaldı ki Osmanlı bile Roma'nın ardılı olduğunu savunmuştur. Sizler Bizans'ı Yunan sanmaya devam edin dostum.
Lorumba@reddit
Comfortable_Card9611@reddit
Nice answer lol.
flowgert@reddit
Let's put it like this: destroyed the Balkans.
overbardiche@reddit
It was a good prank but it's time to give it back now
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Land isn't something that can be given. Come and try to take it if you want
Ok_Maintenance4637@reddit
U invaded a city with only women and kids and u take pride?u also came weeks after the plaque came and everyone was dead
colola8@reddit
The reason ,was the crusaders who invaded and destroyed the city .
Arhys@reddit
Two centuries earlier?
colola8@reddit
Actually yes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople?wprov=sfti1
colola8@reddit
The Byzantine Empire was left poorer, smaller, and ultimately less able to defend itself against the Seljuk and Ottoman conquests that followed. The actions of the Crusaders, therefore, accelerated the collapse of Christendom in the east, and in the long run helped facilitate the later Ottoman conquests of southeastern Europe
CihangirAkkurt@reddit
And never the 124195919 civil wars they had. Sure.
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Yes I am quite happy with the fact that I can see the best city in the world without having to get a visa
VentsiBeast@reddit
You think Istanbul is the best city in the world?
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Yes
VentsiBeast@reddit
Have you like... been anywhere else?
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
I went. To Izmir, the second most beautiful city in the world.
VentsiBeast@reddit
So you've been to two cities in Turkey and they are the most beautiful and second most beautiful cities... in the world.
Lucky you.
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
Actually, three cities. The third one was the worst city in the world.
Mucklord1453@reddit
best city? A bloated hellscape with bad roads and millions of arabs? ok.
Gloomy-Potato6280@reddit
Ranked 5th on the list of the most-visited cities in 2025, just 2 million visitors behind London, it may not be the best city in the world, but it is definitely one of the top three cities in the world
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Then why do you still want it after 600 years?
Mucklord1453@reddit
So someone with some sense can preserve the monuments and fix everything wrong with that fugly sprawling migrant filled hellhole.
You really let the coffins of the holy Orthodox Emperors sit in the yard outside the museum in the rain? What sin.
NetHistorical5113@reddit
If we put them in a museum, would Greeks suddenly stop wanting the city? Stop coping. It was you who called Constantinople "the mother of all cities". You know its value and you want it back. Stop with the excuses
Mucklord1453@reddit
Queen of Cities. New Rome. Get it right.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
I like you
Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit
Well I am pretty sure that you would not need a visa neither way mate;)
GokTengr-i@reddit
Cope
volcano156@reddit
Lol, we beat the shit out of them during their strongest period, and the same for the Crusaders, many, many times. You can't ignore this fact.
Bilmemkineyapsam@reddit
Blah blah blah
MusaCFC@reddit
BlastRadius00@reddit
The British Empire would say otherwise.
Late_Secret3480@reddit
Back then the war was different. If you do it now its far worse with missiles, rockets and modern weapons.
P-l-Staker@reddit
Yes, I'm sure the Yanks know that better than anybody else! 😂
Dangerous-Economy-88@reddit
Dude sorry people here can't take a joke. Like who would unironically believe turkey would just hand over constantinople back lmao
SnooLentils726@reddit
Lives in USA
LMAO
Longjumping-Bid-2212@reddit
Good luck with your cheap keyboard set🤣🤣🤣
BouRock@reddit
is it really a big deal for Greek identity? If so, i have a bad news for you
8NkB8@reddit
April 6th, the same day the Greeks (and Yugoslavs) were invaded by the Germans.
OkArmy8295@reddit
Belgrade was bombed
Volaer@reddit
Too soon.
Fatalaros@reddit
We certainly don't commemorate it...
Citaku357@reddit
Why not? /s
notnotnotnotgolifa@reddit
Its the day Greeks invented Baklava after all /
ShelterIndependent44@reddit
crispyfunky@reddit
Hahah so true. It came as a package with Tzatziki
Arctic-Rumble@reddit
Shame it ended to the Turks..Such a beautiful name for a city. Way nicer than "Istanbul"
munchmills@reddit
The name Istanbul is of greek origin though.
Andrew_is_taken@reddit
means, to the city
munchmills@reddit
Ataturk knew what he was doing 🤝
Andrew_is_taken@reddit
did u see how US was celebrating our independence day, its time to take back our city. ;)
munchmills@reddit
Its our city 🫶
Sior_Soffritto@reddit
Funnily enough, Istanbul name is probably completely Greek in origin. On the other hand Constantinople is half Latin half Greek.
oerwtas@reddit
It is a short version of: konSTANtinouPOLi
Turks add i- to words that start with double consonants, np in greek is pronunced as nb.
Sior_Soffritto@reddit
I’m not a linguist, but I actually think this is the most plausible explanation for the name of the city. The “eis tin poli” theory is not very convincing if you understand how Greek works. After all, we know that a similar transformation occurred when the name Alexandria became Iskandariyya in Arabic.
If that is the case, then the Turkish name is also of both Latin and Greek origin.
Jnyl2020@reddit
The name Istanbul/Stanboul is a thousand years old name. It wasn't invented 100 years ago. It was used even by Seljuks and Turks learned it from Armenians and Arabs. Also there were many names for the city in Ottomans not just one.
KonstantinVeliki@reddit
Slavs in Balkan just called it Stanbol.
ConstantineKouvelis@reddit
Is it really , we greeks know it as Κωνσταντινούπολη , which is 100% coming from the word πόλη and Konstantions which was the Emperor's name , I always assumed that the foreign name was just a bad translation
Sior_Soffritto@reddit
The emperor’s name is Latin. Constantinus means “son of Constans,” and Constans itself means “constant” in the sense of “steady” or “continuous.” Constantinus was a Roman from the Latin-speaking part of the Empire.
ConstantineKouvelis@reddit
Oooohh , that makes a lot of sense since most names in Greek have some meaning and Konstantinos doesn't seem to have any relation to Greek words
FalseRegister@reddit
How is it half latin? The og name had the suffix -polis, which is greek. Is Constantine a latin name?
Sior_Soffritto@reddit
Of course it’s Latin. Constantinus means “son of Constans” or “son of Constans,” and Constans itself means “constant” in the sense of “steady” or “continuous.” Constantinus was a Roman from the Latin-speaking part of the Empire.
Additional-Penalty97@reddit
To be honest if we were calling İstanbul Constantinople and Greeks were using the name İstanbul in their ai made photos with Greek flags on Hagia Sophia i would be offended by using İstanbul.
Because like a fourth of Turkish cities have their Greek names (or pre Turkish conquest names) slightly Turkified to be pronounced like Ankara (Ancyra), Trabzon (Trebizonid), Edirne (Adrianople) and so on. It is really that you guys using these as a claim that makes Turks get offended rather than them being a thing.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Sounds arab though
Jnyl2020@reddit
Well kind of is. All these clowns doesn't know that the name Istanbul/Stanboul is a thousand years old name. It wasn't invented in 1920s. It was used even by the Seljuks and Turks learned it through Armenians and Arabs.
Bugatsas11@reddit
I can elaborate. Constantinople was by far the most important city in the eastern Roman Empire (also known as Byzantine empire). It was such a focal point of the empire that it was often called as the City (with capital C). In Greek city = Poli and the phrase "to the City" Sounds like "Is tin Poli" In Greek. You can see how "Is tin Poli" was transcribed to Istanbul
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Damn, ya that makes more sense, these Arabs destroy whatever they touch especially pronunciations
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
Dawg wut, Turks are originally from the Asia/Asia Minor and beyond lol got nothin to do with Arabs
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Your Turkish imam told you that?
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
No, a history book or a basic google search did lol
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
I googled and AI it, it said they more Arabs than Balkan it just hurt their feeling being called arab eventhough they look and act like Arabs according to google.
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
That honestly sounds like you just made it up lmao
Actual Search:
"According to historians and linguists, the Proto-Turkic language originated in Central-East Asia,^([147]) potentially in Altai-Sayan region, Mongolia or Tuva."
"Early and medieval Turkic groups exhibited a wide range of both East Asian and West-Eurasian physical appearances and genetic origins, in part through long-term contact with neighboring peoples such as Iranic, Mongolic, Tocharian, Uralic and Yeniseian peoples.^([152]) In Central Asia, the earliest surviving Turkic language texts, found on the eighth-century Orkhon inscription monuments, were erected by the Göktürks in the sixth century CE, and include words not common to Turkic but found in unrelated Inner Asian languages.^([153]) Although the ancient Turks were nomadic, they traded wool, leather, carpets, and horses for grain, silk, wood, and vegetables, and also had large ironworking stations in the south of the Altai Mountains during the 600s CE."
"Turks from Central Asia settled in Anatolia in the 11th century, through the conquests of the Seljuk Turks. This began the transformation of the region, which had been a largely Greek-speaking region after previously being Hellenized, into a Turkish and Muslim-majority one."
Turkic peoples - Wikipedia
Turkish people - Wikipedia
To the question "where do the turks originate from?"
Gemini Answer:
"The Turkic peoples originated in the Eurasian steppes of Central Asia, likely emerging around the Altai Mountains, southern Siberia, and Mongolia. Emerging as nomadic, pastoralist tribes, they gained prominence in the 6th century CE with the Göktürk Khaganate, later migrating westward to form empires like the Seljuks and Ottomans."
"First Appearance: The first historical records of a "Turk" (Tujue) identity appear in the 6th century CE, identifying the Göktürk Khaganate, which stretched from Central Asia to the Black Sea.
Westward Expansion: Beginning around the 11th century, various Turkic groups migrated into Central Asia, the Middle East, and Anatolia, expanding their influence and later adopting Islam."
From CHATGPT:
"The origins of the Turks trace back to Central Asia, specifically the vast steppe regions that today include parts of:
Mongolia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Xinjiang (western China)"
"The earliest Turkic peoples were nomadic tribes living on the Eurasian steppe around 2,000+ years ago. They were known for:
One of the first major Turkic states was the Göktürk Khaganate (6th–8th century CE), centered near the Altai Mountains."
When they later formed the Ottoman Empire and spread themselves throughout parts of the Middle East and Northern Africa, they incorporated parts of those cultures into their own... but that doesn't mean they're from there nor do they use their language. Even religious words have their own Turkic forms that diverged from Arabic lol.
Also, 'Istanbul' is originally a Greek term. Literally none of any of this has anything to do with Arabs. Idk what you're on about m8.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
My man I ain’t readin allat , I know a Arab when I see one what are we pretending here
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
So you didn't do any looking up lol and we're just gonna be bigoted against people by their looks. Got it.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Exactly just look at them, I been to turkey alanya Marmaris I know Turks
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
Don't look Arab at all to me but whatever ya say
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
you read bout em, I went to see them, i been in Dubai and Abu dhabi multiple times as well. Aint no article changing what those n*ggas did 5k years ago, i know arabs when i see them
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
Yes, blue and red are the same exact colors. I gotchu
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Pyramids? What? You think Those Arabs in Egypt built the pyramids?
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
You said what they did 5k years ago. I'm just asking what they were doing when the pyramids were built which was about 5k years ago since you also seem to think they are all the same people despite literally being from different continents.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
I said idgaf what they did 5k years ago and you come with pyramids. Time to let go and move on kid ain’t nobody had time with this shit note does anybody care
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
No, you said:
So, what them did? lol
Thats when they pyramids were built, just as a point of reference as you don't seem to know some basic history. I figured I'd give you a point of reference to help you out bb.
Oh I don't, I and the others have dismissed you a while ago for some... ill-educated comments to put it mildly haha. At this point its curiosity to see what other funny views there are here.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Ya Turks built pyramids, whatever you say
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
You said it m8, just following your logic bb
Sensitive-Emu1@reddit
Your ignorance terrifies me
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Let me guess: you a Turk but ashamed to flair the flag? Understandable
munchmills@reddit
I am about to blow your tiny mind: the word balkan is of turkish origin.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
If by Turkish you mean Persian origin then yes
munchmills@reddit
you people can only see what your rotten world view of hate and nationalism allows you to comprehend
MartinBP@reddit
Similar process to how Sofia got its name. The old name was Serdica (after the Celtic Serdi tribe) which became "Sredets" (Central Place) once the Slavs arrived. It wasn't a capital back then though, but it was the home of the St. Sophia Church which Christian pilgrims would visit. People would say that they're visiting Sophia (the church) instead of Sredets and eventually Sofia just became the common name for the whole city.
godric420@reddit
It was conquered by Turks. Why would they give it an Arabic name? 😭
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
They more Arab than Balkan
godric420@reddit
Turks are just Gay Mongols.
Look at their national sport! Look at it!!
idgfaboutpolitics@reddit
Whole balkan culture is ottoman
puzzledpanther@reddit
Ah yes, what did the Romans and Persians know of culture.. they had none of it before the Turks arrived carrying heaps of it on the back of their horses.
munchmills@reddit
The ottoman empire (while being a cruel empire like all are) sucessfully fused and spread multiple cultures throughout it's reign. That doesn't mean they are the sole "creators" of said cultures.
puzzledpanther@reddit
I agree with you.
munchmills@reddit
I am about to blow your tiny mind: the word balkan is of turkish origin.
Frosty-Feeling338@reddit
There is no Istanbul, only ΚΩΝΣΤΑΝΤΙΝΟΥΠΟΛΗ
munchmills@reddit
dream on malaka :)
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 1 of r/AskBalkans "Keep it civil". Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
If not, try to refrain from using this type of language.
Lively discussion is alright, but personal attacks, insults, hate, chauvinism and/or bigotry towards other users or their input will not be tolerated.
Cheers.
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
μαλάκα να πεις τα αδέρφια σου και τους προγόνους σου μπάσταρδο απόβρασμα γουρουνιοιυ και αρουραίου
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 1 of r/AskBalkans "Keep it civil". Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
If not, try to refrain from using this type of language.
Lively discussion is alright, but personal attacks, insults, hate, chauvinism and/or bigotry towards other users or their input will not be tolerated.
Cheers.
munchmills@reddit
https://i.imgur.com/OQDAZGP.png
https://i.imgur.com/WNwFroc.png
Frosty-Feeling338@reddit
🤣🤣
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Greetings,
Your post/comment was removed because it breaks Rule 6 of r/AskBalkans "No trolling or baiting".
Lighthearted questions and comments are allowed within reason*. Posts or comments that are more controversial and could be considered outright trolling (posting inflammatory and/or offensive content) or baiting (posting provocative messages aiming to elicit angry responses out of other users) will be removed, and repeat offenders banned.
*Mod discretion applies (check wiki page)
Frosty-Feeling338@reddit
The original name never change, even Elon says Κωνσταντινούπολη
godric420@reddit
What does that Canadian/South African/ American have to do with this?
Aleyk0@reddit
Even Elon 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Frosty-Feeling338@reddit
Yes the same answer as you always do, when you learn the truth
Aleyk0@reddit
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
ConstantineKouvelis@reddit
I agree , man these downvotes must be coming from all over the world , mainly Germany and the UK , I wonder if the Turks have any relation to these countries
FatSpace@reddit
You went full american lol
Arctic-Rumble@reddit
Yepp just vibes
Atlandios000@reddit
No off course but if you ever read history you going to realise that the Palaiologi did whatever they could to be the worst emperors possible.
P-l-Staker@reddit
I'll bite.
What would that be exactly?
Themagistermilitum@reddit
The first one nearly bankrupted the empire to avoid another crusade. The second one cut the funding for the army, which really isnt a good idea when you are surrounded by enemies, then tried to recover the situation with mercenaries whose leader he then killed causing their revolt. The third one kinda stabilized the situation in the balkans but lost anatolia for good, died with an infant son which sparked a civil war between a friend of his and the regency council, with each side inviting foreign supporters. In this civil war the empire lost most of its land and became a rump state with very little chance of recovery not matter the skill of its ruler.
Kitsooos@reddit
Truth be told, they weren't exactly the best. The last 2 were good I suppose.
The very last ones giga-chad death, is why most people percieve the Palaiologoi in a positive manner.
Mucklord1453@reddit
Half were good , Half were bad. The first one was a diplomatic mastermind that destroyed his enemies with just letters and the last one died in the most heroic and defiant way of any in the middle ages.
Compare that to Ottomans who were just zerg masters and their last Sultan snuck out of his city with all the jewels.
Sensitive-Emu1@reddit
Zergs with elite Janissaries 😀
SuperPatsavouras@reddit
Wrong . It was Tuesday 29 of May 1453
Financial-Jaguar-50@reddit
Most Americans don't even know when and how the empire fell. But, more embarrassing, the closest we come to commemorating it (which we should if you know anything about urban economics and sultan soloman) it is explaining that in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue...the reason being to find a way to not have to pay any money to get to the spices in the far east. The trade routes were going to cause major inflation.
Opening-Iron-1006@reddit
Noone knows this but Europeans were not the only colonizers.
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
Αnd Balkans entered their dark age.
Hot_Distribution_131@reddit
Nardugan1881@reddit
but we care for cats.... and dont have rats......so...
chrstianelson@reddit
As someone who studies history, it really bothers me that a claim that is so easily debunked by even a 30 sec Google search gets such traction online.
First of all, the Ottomans started conquering the Balkans 200 years before they captured Constantinople.
Secondly... According to ChatGPT with the following prompt.
*"How would you describe the overall status of the Balkans under the entirety of Ottoman rule? Base your answer on trustworthy academic sources and not social media posts." *
The status of the Balkans under Ottoman rule (roughly late 14th century to early 20th century) is best understood as complex, regionally varied, and changing over time, rather than uniformly oppressive or harmonious. Academic scholarship—drawing on archival records, tax registers (tahrir defterleri), and comparative imperial studies—generally emphasizes several key dimensions:
1. Political and Administrative Structure
The Balkans were incorporated into a highly centralized imperial system governed from Istanbul, the capital of the Ottoman Empire.
👉 Scholarly consensus: The system was bureaucratically sophisticated and relatively stable, especially compared to the fragmented feudal structures it replaced in many areas.
2. Religious Organization: The Millet System
One of the defining features was the millet system, which organized subjects by religion rather than ethnicity.
Non-Muslims (dhimmis):
👉 Academic view: This system is often described as “hierarchical tolerance”—more flexible than many contemporary European states, but still clearly unequal.
3. Economic Conditions
Economic life varied significantly across time and region:
From the 17th century onward, many historians note economic stagnation or decline, linked to:
Changing global trade routes
👉 Importantly, peasants were heavily taxed, but not necessarily more so than in contemporary European feudal systems.
4. Social Structure and Mobility
Ottoman society was stratified but not rigidly hereditary in the European feudal sense.
👉 Historians emphasize pragmatism over ideology: loyalty to the state often mattered more than ethnic background.
5. Cultural and Demographic Impact
The Ottoman period left lasting cultural and demographic marks:
However:
6. Decline and Nationalism (18th–19th centuries)
By the late period:
Nationalist movements emerged, leading to uprisings such as:
The Greek War of Independence
European powers increasingly intervened, contributing to the empire’s retreat from the Balkans.
7. Historiographical Debate
Modern historians strongly caution against older, simplistic narratives:
Contemporary scholarship presents a more nuanced picture:
Neither a “golden age” nor unrelenting oppression
Prominent historians such as Halil İnalcık and Mark Mazower emphasize this balanced interpretation.
Bottom Line
The Balkans under Ottoman rule were:
In short: an imperial system that maintained order and diversity for centuries, but also generated tensions that later fueled nationalism and independence movements.
If you want, I can break this down country-by-country (e.g., Serbia vs. Greece vs. Bosnia), since experiences varied quite a bit.
Trick-Size-1522@reddit
“As someone who studies history”
Chat-GPT 😭
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
”I studied history” proceeds to post AI slop
chrstianelson@reddit
I write 10000-word essays here at least once a week, always trying to bring historical objectivity to these discussions rather than the million-times-regurgitated "you guys are black, we are white" bullshittery.
And every time I do that I get accused of being a Turk or being a Serb/Greek/etc. or not knowing their own history because they live there and I don't (once again assuming I can't be from where they are because I argued for a nuanced view of history instead of blindly agreeing with what they say).
So I asked ChatGPT to summarize the totality of the academic view regarding Ottoman rule in the Balkans just so people see that what I'm saying is not a nationality bias but the generally accepted historical truth.
And once again, it's not good enough because it doesn't agree with what you believe.
Talking to anyone from the Balkans is worse that talking to an evangelist, I swear.
By the way, asking AI to generate stuff is slop. Asking AI to summarize a subject is not. A biologist literally created a vaccine tailored specifically for his own kid using AI to parse through data.
It's got its uses. This is one of them.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
ChatGPT used Reddit as source, it doesn’t use academic papers just because you ask it to. Also you are assuming I even read what it wrote which I didn’t I just thought it was amusing you starting off with ”I’m a historian” followed by a full chat gpt essay
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
LIes, lies, lies.
You were massively torturing people.
There is no point to answer with a long answer like yours. Eveyone knows it.
chatgpt...hahahaha...
Razor_EDG@reddit
aham
matidiaolo@reddit
I am pretty sure the opinion that the Turkish empire was bad but the Byzantine empire was good is wishful thinking and simplistic.
If you read history more carefully, you can spot cases byzantines did awful things - you don’t get the nickname Bulgarian-killer for example for fun.
Byzantine also had little respect for pagan religion, on the contrary, they destroyed a lot of temples - gems of civilization.
I am not saying one is good and the other is bad. Man has always been man, empires always rise and fall and history is already written.
Let’s be civil and friendly to our neighbors
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
LIES LIES AGAIN
PruneOk9712@reddit
if the ottoman Empire hadn't existed in history, Balkan culture wouldn't exist. Even the name Balkan is Turkish. lol.
NoScreen54@reddit
do you think balkans had no culture before ottomans? hilarious
Sad_Philosopher_3163@reddit
It's actually crazy how deluded some Turks are.
EmpyreanEmperor1@reddit
It’s amusing to see them use 19th century colonialism talking points when you know that if the reverse were to be said then they’d absolutely be whining about it.
PruneOk9712@reddit
even though the Ottoman Empire was colonial, no one in the Balkans speaks Turkish except the Turks, but thanks to non-colonial France, everyone in Africa speaks French. lol
LibertyChecked28@reddit
In the 70's my grandma went on a school brigade in Kardjali, the canteen lady would not serve anyone unless they ware able to order their meals in Turkish because she didn't bother to learn Bulgarian.
Not to mention the 3,500 Turkish words in Bulgarian nowdays, which had been twice as much just 200 year prior.
Not to mention how back in the Ottoman era you physically wouldnt had gotten anywhere unless you either knew turkish or knew a guy who could speak Turkish because neither the Ottoman Guards nor the local bays would had bothered to learn Bulgarian.
EmpyreanEmperor1@reddit
There’s a difference between me saying modern Turkish nationalists use colonialist talking points, and saying the Ottoman Empire was a colonial empire. I didn’t make the latter claim, you randomly brought it up.
As for France’s colonial empire, yeah it existed. Second largest one at the time, more than double the size of the Ottoman Empire, kinda hard to miss. Not sure what it has to do with this discussion though?
Moreover, language transfers aren’t the only criteria we use to evaluate colonial influence, seems like an attempt to distract from the other impacts “certain” empires have had.
SahinKama@reddit
Haha, classic double standard.
You cry about "19th century colonialism talking points" but lose your mind the second a Turk says the Ottomans shaped modern Balkan culture. The name "Balkan" itself is Turkish. Irony is delicious. 😂
MoorAlAgo@reddit
Your response is literally just "no u"
SahinKama@reddit
Strawman.
No one is saying there was no culture before the Ottoman Empire. It didn’t create Balkan culture, but it clearly shaped it. That’s basic history not “no u.”
MoorAlAgo@reddit
That's not the defense you think it is.
SahinKama@reddit
That’s not the gotcha you think it is.
No one’s defending “no prior culture” the point is simple: the Ottoman Empire didn’t create Balkan culture, but it undeniably shaped it. If you reduce that to “no u” you’re running the argument.
MoorAlAgo@reddit
The "no u" is referring to the colonialism argument. You're so upset you're not even reacting to the correct argument.
SahinKama@reddit
Ah, got it.
You’re arguing the wrong target. I wasn’t defending colonialism. that’s not what this thread is about. The point is straightforward. the Ottoman Empire didn’t erase or invent Balkan culture, it reshaped it. Bringing up “19th century colonialism” is irrelevant
MoorAlAgo@reddit
No I'm not. You're desperately trying to pretend that's not what you reacted to because you realized you got called out for exactly what they were saying.
SahinKama@reddit
the argument I responded to was being misrepresented. The Ottoman Empire shaping Balkan culture isn’t the same as defending colonialism, and that distinction is what you’re missing.
MoorAlAgo@reddit
It is, you're still doing what they accused you of doing.
SahinKama@reddit
Fair. If you frame it like that, yeah claiming “the Ottomans shaped Balkan culture” while dismissing the imperial context does mirror the same kind of double standard people accuse you of. You can’t separate influence from power entirely. that’s exactly the point they were making.
SahinKama@reddit
Exactly. The colonialism point isn’t even under attack here. The actual argument is Ottoman Empire didn’t erase Balkan culture. it reshaped it. Reducing that to “no u” on colonialism
EmpyreanEmperor1@reddit
I never said anything or had any reaction about whether or not the Ottomans shaped modern Balkan culture. Nor did I lose my mind at any point in this post, I’ve been perfectly civil and collected.
I simply found it amusing that people who constantly decry imperialism against Islamic countries justify their own nation’s history of imperialism by claiming the people they conquered had no culture beforehand. A statement far more extreme than just “the Ottomans shaped modern Balkan culture”, and one I would’ve expected to find in a “civilizing mission” pamphlet 150 years ago.
You’re right about one thing though, the irony is indeed delicious.
SahinKama@reddit
Haha, nice try at gaslighting.
You literally replied to "Balkans had no culture before Ottomans" with "It's actually crazy how deluded some Turks are." That's not "perfectly civil" — that's calling people delusional for stating basic historical influence.
And no one claimed "they had no culture." The point was Ottoman rule heavily shaped what we call modern Balkan culture today. Twisting that into 19th-century "civilizing mission" nonsense is exactly the bad-faith move you're accusing others of.
The double standard is still hilarious. Keep coping. 😂
EmpyreanEmperor1@reddit
Brother, read the thread again.
Those are other people commenting, not me. I responded to those comments. Pay attention and read the thread properly before you claim I’m “losing my mind” and accuse me of “gaslighting”.
I’m not claiming he said they had no culture, I literally wrote “or that it wouldn’t exist today”. Saying an entire culture wouldn’t exist today isn’t just claiming that it was shaped by Ottoman influence. It’s directly attributing its entire existence to it, two very different things. The origin of the word “Balkan” is not significant. We called the continent “Africa” because of the Romans and later European cartographers, doesn’t mean we say African culture wouldn’t exist without European conquest.
If you’re going to come here and argue aggressively at the very least check who you’re talking to rather than laying into me for what others said.
SahinKama@reddit
Fair enough. Mixed you up with the other commenter.
Still doesn’t change the point. Saying Balkan culture wouldn’t exist without the Ottoman Empire is obviously an overreach, but reducing everything to “19th century colonial talking points” is just as lazy.
Ottoman rule didn’t create Balkan culture, but it clearly reshaped it. Those are not the same claim.
EmpyreanEmperor1@reddit
No worries, mistakes happen.
I stand by what I said though, saying an entire culture wouldn’t exist without a conquering country is an overreach that easily enters colonial justification territory. You may not be making that claim, but it’s what the other person said.
When you add nuance to the claim and soften it a bit then I’m far more receptive to it. Im not familiar enough with Balkan cultures to make statements on how much Turkish/Ottoman influence there has been on them, so I don’t feel right weighing in on that directly.
I will say however, that I don’t think it’s unreasonable to claim that a conquering nation would have a large cultural influence over its subjects, so I wouldn’t be surprised if you are correct when using that argument.
SahinKama@reddit
I agree
Prince_Hastur@reddit
They are whining about it. Just ask them about Balkan Wars and aftermath of Ottoman conquests. Then they play victims.
PruneOk9712@reddit
It wouldn’t have been such a unified and shared culture. Most likely they would have been just ordinary neighboring countries, or you all would have been slavs. The Ottomans at least didn't change your language and identity. Everyone in the Balkans is a nationalist.
NoScreen54@reddit
thinking how all people from the balkans would have been slavs shows how little you know about the place. slavs themselves started adopting byzantine culture in the first place, just as ottomans did, starting with byzantine classical music, the blueprint of the churches being integrated into mosques, etc.
all empires that succeeded on conquering a previous empire, built/expanded on existing cultures. ottomans did that with persian, arabic, turkic and byzantine influences. which ultimately formed the ottomans.
people here are nationalist because to survive 500 years under foreign power without being assimilated does take to grow a spine. i'd rather be ordinary neighboring countries than to see pointless nationalistic bs that has poisoned the survival of the fittest mentality here for centuries.
PruneOk9712@reddit
Exactly. That's why Albanians, Serbs, and Bosnians are fighting each other. It's all because of the Ottomans. Lol. Why aren't the Middle Eastern, African, and South African countries, which were exploited by Europeans, nationalist? Once you understand that everything is related to religion, you'll probably realize the argument is pointless.
NoScreen54@reddit
who gave a different religion to albanians and bosnians? exactly.
PruneOk9712@reddit
Who gave Christianity to the bosnians and albanians? There were different religions in the balkans before christianity. lol
NoScreen54@reddit
i think you said about different religions causing a problem between two groups of people, which, I agree, but for the most part, prior to ottomans, balkans were almost entirely christian. prior to the spread of abrahamic religions, it was various forms of paganism.
KakaoFugl@reddit
If crawling in trees is a culture, sure.
/s
NoScreen54@reddit
all those trees just to have the worst air quality in europe.
LegioXI89@reddit
Lol, people in the balkans live long and prosper under Roman empire for centuries, as for ottomans they just continue ruling eastern rome territories which already had a civilization, don't flatter yourself
PruneOk9712@reddit
The Ottomans didn't destroy Rome. Rome had already collapsed. Before the Turks, the Arabs tried to take Istanbul. After Rome, someone else would rule it. Probably British or Russians, who were major powers in Europe.
LegioXI89@reddit
I didn't said ottomans destroyed Rome, i said ottomans defeated the rulers of eastern Rome and continue ruling those territories
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
Yes, we would have a much better name and a much better culture.
PruneOk9712@reddit
I can understand your pain. But as I said there wouldn’t have been a unified culture.
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
Violently forced unions never have good results. After all unified culture should not be a target. Everyonemust be free to follow whatver culture he wants.
PruneOk9712@reddit
The Ottomans probably did not have a goal of uniting Croats, Greeks, Albanians, Turks etc. All empires want more territory. It was likely a historical outcome. It was a natural process
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
"But as I said there wouldn’t have been a unified culture."
These are your words on the previous comment. It's you that you represented it as beneficial for all the area, not me. Of course it was beneficial for ottomans.
David_Serbanescu_07@reddit
And why is that bad?
ImmediateInitiative4@reddit
True, Balkan culture as it currently stands wouldnt exist, it would be something different. imo the eastern roman empire was doomed to fall either way, so there are 3 possible outcomes, either serbian or bulgarian domination in the region (lower chance) or austian or austria-hungarian take over of the balkans (higher chance) in a scenario where ottomans never came in posession of it
VentsiBeast@reddit
Judging by how Austria and Hungary looks now compared to Turkey, I'd say we'd be better off with the alternative.
On the other hand if the Ottoman conquests didn't happen, I wouldn't be alive, most people in this conversation wouldn't be alive either.
ImmediateInitiative4@reddit
That's why history is so, so fascinating when you think about it. for me It's difficult to imagine how anatolia would look like today if Turks never came here. Greece and armenia would probably be larger and would have more population, their diaspora would be smaller, but aside from this I can't imagine much else. Or what if Turks never embraced islam, but converted to orthodoxy somehow? They would probably still migrate westwards but be assimilated like huns and proto bulgarians
Prince_Hastur@reddit
Least deluded Turk
PruneOk9712@reddit
okay slav. lol
Prince_Hastur@reddit
Is that supposed to be an insult lmao
PruneOk9712@reddit
No. I like Nicola tesla.
GeneralVuk@reddit
The name for Carthage is a Latinized version of a Phoenician name. Victors decide the naming schemes, but this absolutely nothing to do with Balkan culture. Turkish people always have a complex about instilling culture in the Balkans as if God himself called down and said "the Balkan really have no culture, you should give them some".
PruneOk9712@reddit
I’m not saying that Turks gave you culture. what I’m saying is that if there is a unified culture in the Balkans today, it is thanks to the Turks, because most likely there wouldn’t have been a shared culture otherwise.
Punkmo16@reddit
Such a shame for a region that’s known for its intellectual richness 😪
AshamedBasis9431@reddit
At least now that Balkans are free from Ottoman Empire, they are free of corruption, nepotism and internal conflicts.
DemandNew8116@reddit
lol nice one
SahinKama@reddit
bro thinks balkans weren't in dark age before
KakaoFugl@reddit
We built a lot of mosques for you, what do you mean?
David_Serbanescu_07@reddit
It's like giving a whole pig to a Muslim, what should he do with it?
Shaolinpower2@reddit
I think that was the joke
MajesticPineapple618@reddit
Half of the Balkans were already ottoman by this point.
Dry-Dog-2867@reddit
to be fair ottomans already conquered large chunk of it for decades at that time
ThimitrisApithanos@reddit
You are right. It's just that this is official milestone date.
Vestout@reddit
Dumbass primitives trying not to place blame on Ottomans for their mediocrity challenge (impossible)
Nevermore9000@reddit
Too soon...
Quarvoynne@reddit
The real fall, or the tragedy that many people talk about, happened in 1204 at the hands of their own Christian brothers. Mehmet just made it final.
overbardiche@reddit
Actually based take
Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit
I thought it was on May :\
Trick-Size-1522@reddit
It’s viewed negatively overall but we move forward. I do wish that the Hagia Sophia remained a museum more than a mosque.
Successful-Weight-44@reddit
And since then Balkans is retarded, less literacy rate, less prosperity, and we want to part of West-Europe which is in those few centuries much better then us.
Since that moment in time it started to suck on the Balkans and the new culture that spread in the Balkans brought us in this since then lasting shity place.
Sad but true.
Defiant-Strength2010@reddit
Nicetas Choniates: The Sack of Constantinople (by the Latins). Pic unrelated.
Bondguy_25@reddit
He will come as a lightning and reclaim Konstantinople
AshamedBasis9431@reddit
Copeing mechanisms
P-l-Staker@reddit
Konstantinoupolis*, ye savage!
^/s
Lorumba@reddit
Neutral? We dont celebrate it here, most dont even know the date.
Tbh the conquest was made by ottomans I dont give a shit about what they did or the crimes they comitted since they are long dead and we put the last nail in their coffin by claiming our freedom.
puzzledpanther@reddit
But you claim all their history, culture and food?
Lorumba@reddit
Turks lived under ottoman rule yk? Are you telling gyros is ottoman? Why greeks are claiming ottoman culture then? "Ottoman culture" was created by people that lived under it. Ottomans are a family nothing more.
puzzledpanther@reddit
I wouldn't call it a "family" but I agree with some of the rest.
A lot of the stuff either invented or the taken from Byzantines, Persian, Arabs and then made better under Ottomans, belongs to all countries that were occupied by them (including Turks). Not just one country.
Because Greeks helped form it? Just like other occupied countries.
Lorumba@reddit
I wrote the "greeks claiming ottoman culture" part to create a perspective I dont really mean it.
The worse thing is british saving the ottomans neck. Thats why you see neo-ottomanists here and there they are hoping for a return which will not happen for sure.
puzzledpanther@reddit
Oh boy... there is a neverending source of examples in human history for the amount of shit the British caused to people around the globe.
johnoth@reddit
Wait I thought the Ottoman Empire was founded by Ataturk 🤨
strongdev22@reddit
Byzantine empire was corrupted long ago. Ottoman just taken what was laying on the ground.
uniform-convergence@reddit
Siege started on 06.04., but city is conquered 29.05.
ElLoboTurco@reddit
bro this was the corner stone of the later ottoman empire and thus turkish republic
Royal_Gap5154@reddit
It was important part of the peaceful time of balkans ever get.
National_Ad3648@reddit
esto ha desencadenado en una guerra en los Balcanes donde veo cuatro frentes abiertos: Turquía contra Grecia y Serbia. Serbia contra Kosovo y Albania Bulgaria contra Turquía Bulgaria contra Grecia (Wtf)
JignerdSaw@reddit
From what I recall just the end of the Medieval ages and a comparison to how the Fall of the Western Roman Empire brought the start of the Medieval Ages.
Obviously it’s more complicated than that and both collapses are quite different. The fall of the Western Roman Empire has an entire theory that it never collapsed but just transformed into multiple states that are centrally organised by bishops under a similar bureaucratic structure like Rome. This is without mentioning how Western Rome fell more due to diseases and climate change than war or barbarians attacking and being crown kings. Looking at Constantinople, it wasn’t in any peak as it was already invaded by the crusaders with the help from Venice and Viking mercenaries two centuries before the Ottomans came with canons.
And it’s not like you can compare how Barbarians acted in Western Roman to the Ottomans to the Eastern one. A lot of barbarian tribes became Roman citizens and an important part of the army historically in their conquests. It’s just that the ones in the later periods were given less privilege than past barbarian who emigrated into the Empire, which lead to civil wars. While the Ottoman Empire was a fully fledged sovereign nation invading another one.
Dangerous-Pea-8392@reddit
In the 90s hijab women were the exception in a secular Turkey. Now there are soooo many of them. It seems that the entire third world from the strictly Islamic Anatolia have gathered in this exceptionally beautiful cosmopolitan city!
Sea_Report_7566@reddit
Umm perhaps because they’re most likely refugees from neighboring countries and Turkey is a Muslim majority country?
GandalftheGreyhame@reddit
And so began the ceaseless weeping of Europe
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Another Arab thread in askbalkans sub flooded by Arabs answering balkan question
The_Good_Gunslinger@reddit
And another Arab talking about Arabs
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Nice try
Pompaci3125@reddit
Bosnians are also Arabs.
J0hnnyBlazer@reddit
Why don’t we change subname to r/askturks or r/askarabs instead, would make more sense
Jamesanitie@reddit
The byzantine were already dead before the siege thanks to the western catholic brothers, ottmans just ended the suffering.
It became a mess after ww1 with mass migrations.
Overall think I feel neutral. Now had Vienna fallen or Mehmet not suffer a premature death that woyld ve a discussion that would interest me more.
Commercial_Handle418@reddit
Doesn't your teacher portray it as liberation
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Conquest. Not liberation
Mucklord1453@reddit
just saw a post on ottomans subreddit showing a plaque in Smyrna saying "this man "freed" Smyrna and west asia minor from the Byzantines".
Yes, "freed" it.
VentsiBeast@reddit
They are peek delulu.
Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit
Doubt it. I am pretty sure that North Koreans peak at it. Your AntiTurkism shows /s
VentsiBeast@reddit
The /s was really needed here, I almost started explaining to you how NKs are just victims of the regime and they have to play ball, but individually they're not that dumb :)
Downtown-Figure6434@reddit
You sure it’s not referring to 1922
Mucklord1453@reddit
Nope, its some sculpture of a Turkish warlord and talks about the 14th century.
Commercial_Handle418@reddit
But from different povs u might view it as either
P-l-Staker@reddit
And what POV might that be? 🤨
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Nobody calls the event liberation. We call it conquest of İstanbul, westerners call it fall of Constantinople
Commercial_Handle418@reddit
Oh
Commercial_Handle418@reddit
I see maybe the Westerners I see on reddit portray you too harshly
Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit
??? sorry but you are wrong: Why are you posting this on April 6th?
The conquest of Constantinople on May 29, 1453, by the Ottoman Empire under Sultan Mehmed II ended the Byzantine Empire after more than 1000 years.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
Shit happens.
GokTengr-i@reddit
💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿
EmpyreanEmperor1@reddit
🍿
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
A tragedy
Longjumping-Bid-2212@reddit
It was actually fun.
d2mensions@reddit
Still remember that day
Longjumping-Bid-2212@reddit
CataphractBunny@reddit
Negatively.
CasperGwamm@reddit
Very negatively.
Th3Dark0ccult@reddit
Negatively, of course.