Why hasnt Afro-Caribbean food taken off like other foods from other cultures?
Posted by OTribal_chief@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 489 comments
There's tonnes of chinese and indian takeaways and restaurants in the uk. but its quite rare to see the same from Africa or Caribbean.
Its not as if people from those countries havent been in the uk as long as those from Asia and the indo sub continent. Alot of them have the same common wealth connections as the indian, pakistani and bengali cultures in the uk. but you dont really see the same from any of those communities to teh same extent. I guess nando's is the only one that pops into my head, from south africa originally i believe
PsychologicalRun1911@reddit
Some cuisines aren't as good as others. UK has tons of German influence but you don't see German restaurants either.
Let's not pretend cuisines are all equal.
pajamakitten@reddit
But Caribbean food is definitely not a bad cuisine.
TNTiger_@reddit
It's very much "You're the worst cultural cuisine in the UK"
"Ah yes, but you have me as a presence in the UK"
There's 100+ other countries that don't even make the list lmao
EssentialParadox@reddit
The golden ratio of addictive food is 50% sugar to 50% fat.
If Caribbean and other cuisines don’t have the golden ratio, they don’t get on the list of popular takeaways.
SignificantContact21@reddit
What Indian sauces has sugar in them?
EssentialParadox@reddit
Pretty much all of them. Certainly the most popular curry, Chicken Tikka Masala, for one…
SignificantContact21@reddit
What the hell are you talking about man, you’re talking nonsense. Barely any curry would use sugar.
EssentialParadox@reddit
Check the ingredients of this- https://youtu.be/7wmKBHY5LVk
SignificantContact21@reddit
So you’ve found 1 recipe from 1 guy, I can find you 100 without. Please use your brain. If I put fish into spaghetti that does not mean spaghetti is made with fish.
EssentialParadox@reddit
That was literally the first recipe I found. Find me one for CTM that doesn’t have sugar in it…
SignificantContact21@reddit
You’re not a serious person, use google next time or even AI to educate yourself
pajamakitten@reddit
Exactly. People are not clamouring for the likes of Russian or Finnish food. Ethiopian and Georgian food are massively underrated though.
Gullible-Lie2494@reddit
It's a bit school dinners. Rice and peas.
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
Maybe I should try some more. Had Jerk Chicken awhile back and thought it was awful.
hp19891@reddit
It's incredibly average. It's well and truly a weird cosplaying thing for white people to rave about our food. It's absolutely not in the top tier of world cuisines.
Curry goat, jerk pork, ackee and saltfish, dumplings, oxtail. I can think of 1000 things I'd prefer to eat before any of them.
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
My cousin is a pro bodybuilder. So his diet is fucking horrendous, like think chicken, broccoli and sweet potato for breakfast kinda diet.
But one of the things he likes to eat that's off his plan (like a cheat meal) is Curried Goat. He swears by it. He's never managed to convince me to try it yet!
TheoArchibald@reddit
Neither is German food. It's superb.
Kingstinator@reddit
Yes, there's nothing quite so delicious as raw minced pork and onions on bread.
NowWe_reSuckinDiesel@reddit
Yeah, I'd give the Mettbrotchen a miss as well, but their baking is nice at least
bourton-north@reddit
It’s not? There’s plenty of tasty German food but not enough or variety to sustain a significant presence in the global cuisine market outside of donee kebabs and they are arguably Turkish.
superioso@reddit
There's absolutely tonnes of German foods which are great. Things like pretzels, schnitzels or hotdogs are popular around the world, or sweet things like stollen, strudel or any types of cake (e.g black forest gateu).
If you extend German food to include Austria or Switzerland then you can add all pastries like croissants to the list, or things like rösti.
bourton-north@reddit
There are lots of restaurants for places that have good food. It’s as simple as that.
Cakeo@reddit
I think I'll give up trying to convince people of their bad opinions on cuisine. Cuisine tier lists and judging food based on what you've read about it is just an admission of knowing absolutely feck all
PudinaRaita@reddit
😬
Entfly@reddit
It just is though
fookreddit22@reddit
It's very flavourful.
Entfly@reddit
It's really not though. Like it's very basic fare, I'd never see it on a menu and go oh yeah I'll have that
fookreddit22@reddit
You are the only person I've come across that doesn't think Carribbean food is flavourful. I get it's not to everyone's palate but jerk chicken marinade usually has around 15 separate ingredients all bringing their own tastes and smells.
I would never consider Carribbean food as basic and anyone who does has very likely never attempted to cook it.
Entfly@reddit
It's rice and chicken dude
That_Deaf_Guy@reddit
Isn't pizza just "bread, cheese, and sauce, dude"? Isn't an Indian curry and naan just "chicken and bread, dude?". It's easy to over-simplify food and complex flavours when you approach it that way. Your opinion (which isn't a fact) is wrong.
Entfly@reddit
Pizza is fucking basic food too 😂 it doesn't mean it's not good, but yeah a pizza is one of the most basic foods there are which is why it's been made by pretty much every European culture, just the Italian version was the most popular.
Any_Presentation2689@reddit
What other European cultures make pizza?
pajamakitten@reddit
So is a chicken tikka masala, yet that is a national dish.
guyingrove@reddit
Then thats your own limited experience, not what you know of the cuisine.
Indian food isn’t just curries and rice, Chinese food isn’t just noodles and prawns, Greek food isn’t just gyros and salads.
fookreddit22@reddit
Yes, correct. jerk chicken, rice & pea is chicken and rice. Do you think that's all it is?
pajamakitten@reddit
That is apparently a bit of a debate from what I understand. There are five key ingredients: scotch bonnets, allspice, spring onions, ginger and garlic; everything else is optional and people get into debates about what is and is not acceptable. It is why jerk chicken tastes so different depending on where you get it.
Infamous_Tough_7320@reddit
It's not but with the popularity of Indian, Japanese, Chinese, Italian, Lebanese, Turkish, Mexican, American Fast food - it just doesn't stand a chance. A lot of this just comes down to what people have become accustomed to and there isn't even a good Caribbean or African place available for most people to eat at and if there were I don't even think most people would know what they offer beyond Jollof rice and jerk chicken
pajamakitten@reddit
I would not call Lebanese or Turkish popular, unless you are talking cheap kebab places that people go to when they are drunk after the clubs kick out.
But that is just your ignorance. If a place like that opened up then you would learn more about their culture and what food they could serve.
PsychologicalRun1911@reddit
It's not a great one either.
Food is the worst thing by far about a Carribbean holiday.
sparkling_gem_@reddit
I’m half Jamaican and love Jamaican food, but agree - when I went on holiday, I was super disappointed by the Jamaican food at my hotel and the one place that they allowed us to go outside the hotel, swearing it was ‘where the locals went’ (it was filled with tourists). There’s a strong likelihood you’ve never tried decent Caribbean food.
If anyone is in NW London, I recommend One Stop in Harlesden.
Suitable-Novel1801@reddit
Which country? Big difference between Jamaica and Dominican Republic for example.
Entfly@reddit
Not really, they're both pretty bad
pajamakitten@reddit
What do you know about Dominican food?
Electronic_Amphibian@reddit
When you say "Carribbean holiday" do you mean all inclusive resort?
impamiizgraa@reddit
Mindblowing. I mean I know not everyone can like the same things but I am shocked by this statement lol
NaturalHighPower@reddit
Who the bludclart yuh a talk tuh? Iiiiiiiiiiijattttt.
bourton-north@reddit
It might not be bad, but it’s not good enough to beat out the popular ones.
pajamakitten@reddit
Good enough to stand alongside them. I would happily have Caribbean over Italian or Chinese any day.
bourton-north@reddit
That is not a sentiment shared by most people I suspect, and if that were true where are the restaurants?
pajamakitten@reddit
As others have said, a mix of people from those communities not having been in the trade, but also in areas where there is a large Caribbean population.
bourton-north@reddit
There has been 60-70 plus years for the food to become popular. It hasn’t. Not all cuisines are as wide spread desirable as others.
ambadawn@reddit
Neither is German.
KEW95@reddit
I think you’ll find that a lot of white folks don’t have the taste buds for strong flavours, which are very common in Afro-Caribbean foods. It doesn’t mean the cuisine isn’t as good, just that certain palettes cant handle the flavours.
Routine_Ad1823@reddit
Why are hot curries so popular then?
KEW95@reddit
People who eat hot Asian curries are more likely to try strong/spicy African and Caribbean foods. You can’t say that a majority of white folks here are eating hot curries, though.
The__Pope_@reddit
Curry is extremely popular throughout the country
KEW95@reddit
People who eat strong, spicy Asian curries are more likely to be some of the ones also eating African and Caribbean foods.
The__Pope_@reddit
But strong spicy curries are incredibly popular and African/carribean just isn't. There must be a reason for that
KEW95@reddit
I’m sure you could Google it (as could OP) to get a more factual idea of why they aren’t as common. There are probably a multitude of reasons.
nwindy317@reddit
Maybe it's not as nice.
I've never enjoyed it as much as a chicken tikka vindaloo from my local, I don't find it particularly spicy either to be fair.
KEW95@reddit
To a lot of people, it won’t be. To many, it will be. That’s how preferences work. The reactions have been interesting. You don’t like it as much, which is totally understandable. What’s fascinating is the heat (no pun intended) my comments have got for recognising that our food tends to be mild/bland by comparison and therefore most white Brits aren’t as likely to go for bolder/spicier foods, especially with less familiar ingredients, lack of marketing and stigma around the food/people.
nwindy317@reddit
I think saying that white Brits aren't very adventurous with food is a bit of contentious point because a lot of south Asian and east/south east Asian cuisine is very popular in this country, which covers your bolder/spicier foods argument.
KEW95@reddit
Those who eat bolder flavours from Asia will likely be the majority of the white Brits eating from other cuisines with stronger/spicier foods too. White Brits are known for milder home cooking compared to many other cultures and that’s okay. It also means we aren’t as used to eating things we aren’t familiar with. Many white Brits eat Asian foods, but are most of those Brits eating the stronger/spicier options? There are even jokes about how certain Asian curries are made less spicy for Brit tastebuds.
Are we “adventurous” if there’s an entire continent of cuisines and other countries’ cuisines that the majority of Brits won’t try?
nwindy317@reddit
Alot of what your saying just sounds like anecdotes and opinions. It's the same as saying alot of my Asian friends get mocked because they don't like a lot of spicy food and prefer milder options. A quick Google search would show the most popular cook books sold for home cooking in the UK are middle east& Mediterranean, Indian and south Asian and then east Asian, which isn't just Chinese style anymore.
You're saying we won't try afro Carribbean food, I'm suggesting maybe we have tried it and didn't like it.
KEW95@reddit
It’s all anecdotal and opinions - everyone’s is because nobody is talking stats or proven facts. If OP wanted proven reasons, they’d Google.
The__Pope_@reddit
Well yeah there probably are multiple reasons. But you could Google 90% of what gets posted here but people post for the discussion
KEW95@reddit
From many of the responses I’ve received, discussion isn’t on their minds.
pajamakitten@reddit
But not all African and Caribbean foods are insanely spicy either. The reality is that people are just not eating them due to lack of exposure.
Entfly@reddit
Or that it's just not that nice
I've tried jerk chicken, jollof rice etc and it's... Fine
But I'm not going to a restaurant for it, it's just home cooked food. Like a shepherds pie or bubble and squeak.
pajamakitten@reddit
You could say the same about Indian and Chinese food. I have never had those as a takeaway because I can just make them at home. My Indian colleagues also do far nicer Indian food than curry houses do.
Entfly@reddit
Cool, but most people can't.
KEW95@reddit
I agree with lack of exposure, as well as lack of knowledge about the ingredients, stigma around the food/people, lack of marketing, etc. However, it isn’t just about it being spicy; it’s about bold flavours too. A lot of British food is known for being quite mild and/or bland. People who grow up with that and little else aren’t as likely to seek out cuisines known for stronger/spicier foods and lesser known ingredients.
pajamakitten@reddit
But people grow up with Indian food here just fine.
Entfly@reddit
British restaurants exist outside of the UK to a MUCH MUCH larger degree than Afro Carribbean restaurants
KuromiFan95@reddit
They're not. "Hot" curries are.
KEW95@reddit
Yeah, I’ve definitely heard of how they’re often “watered down” for our palettes.
YouHaveToGoBackk@reddit
Are you daft? Curry (often spicy versions like a vindaloo or madras) are some of the most popular dishes in the country, and I don't think it's debateable that they are dishes that are of 'strong flavour'
KEW95@reddit
The fact they’re popular doesn’t mean the majority of white folks are eating them. People who like hot Asian curries are more likely to enjoy the strong/spicy food from Africa and the Caribbean. Our food is too mild and bland for a lot of people from other countries and cultures. That’s just the reality of it.
Entfly@reddit
We literally invented and popularised the Phall because a vindaloo was considered too mild
Our food isn't mild or bland
YouHaveToGoBackk@reddit
Yeah sure. Chinese, Thai, Mexican, Japanese etc etc with 'strong' flavours aren't popular either.
Maybe it's the fact African food tastes like shit.
Nympho_BBC_Queen@reddit
Those restaurants are definitely popular but they don't exactly sell authentic food. It's westernised food made for our taste buds. Just how Maggi in Africa is a lot different compared to the European stuff.
KEW95@reddit
All African food “tastes like shit” just because you don’t like it? 😂
YouHaveToGoBackk@reddit
Given it's not a popular cuisine in the UK, maybe it's just not me who likes it.
KEW95@reddit
“I don’t like it” and “African food tastes like shit” are not the same thing. Our country and our people aren’t the deciders of good cuisines based on what we’re used to eating. I doubt most Asians, Africans and South Americans would think fish and chips or toad in the hole are great enough to have British food restaurants all over the place.
Entfly@reddit
🤣🤣🤣 Mate shut the fuck up and go back to Kansas
FluidGolf9091@reddit
Right but you could say the same for why toad in the hole isn't big in Mexico, to push the logic.
It's not that it isn't good food , it's that their palette can't handle the lack of spice
KEW95@reddit
That’s what my answer would be if that was the question. It’s not about “cuisines aren’t equal”; it’s about palettes.
The__Pope_@reddit
Why are cuisines all equal? Doesn't make sense that everything is exactly as equally good as each other
KEW95@reddit
There’s no “equal” when it comes to something as subjective as food. What we’ve grown up with will affect our tastes. Where we’ve grown up will affect what food we enjoy. There is no objective way to decide what cuisines are better than others.
The__Pope_@reddit
It's not objective, but seeing what is popular and what isn't is a good indicator. There's no objective reason why pancakes and maple syrup is better than ice cream and gravy, but the fact that no one eats ice cream together with gravy (or whatever example of unusual food combinations you want) shows that it's not good
KEW95@reddit
I think a lot of it will be down to Brits who don’t have African or Caribbean heritage not knowing much about the ingredients used and the stigma surrounding it. There’s also less marketing and Asian food being a staple here for longer.
atomic_mermaid@reddit
This sounds like you've never eaten carribbean food!
SEA-Storm1123@reddit
Or like they said, they just don't think it's very good.
The__Pope_@reddit
I think this is it. There's a reason some cuisines are more popular than others, they're just considered better by the majority of people
EyeAware3519@reddit
Indian and Chinese dishes you get from a British takeaway are pretty different from the food you'd get in India or China, especially as both countries are huge and have many regional cuisines. What would a toned down for the British palate version of Carribbean Jerk chicken be? Probably taste a lot like Nandos or KFC.
There's a few African restaurants in my city but they use a lot of offal and it puts British people off.
GourangaPlusPlus@reddit
I found after 2 months in India that whilst not 100% accurate, British takeaways will serve you well enough as prep.
The rotis though, never been able to hit that high after coming back.
onemanandhishat@reddit
Yes, I think people like to overstate the differences between Chinese and Indian food in the UK and the original stuff. Yes, there are differences, but a lot of it is in line with the flavours you would expect to encounter.
Any_Presentation2689@reddit
I disagree. Chinese food in China is very different from what you get in the vast majority of cheap takeaways in this country.
unaubisque@reddit
Yep, and especially because they are huge countries with a lot of regional variation themselves. Food from Bengal or Guangdong/HK are pretty similar to what you get in the UK in my experience.
onemanandhishat@reddit
Yeah, quite a number of immigrants came from Hong Kong, and the food is closer to some of the Cantonese dishes. Like black bean sauce isn't a super common chinese dish the way it's the goto number 1 in takeaways, but it definitely exists.
Any_Presentation2689@reddit
Yeah, most of the Chinese food I ate while travelling around China I think would be quite challenging for a lot of British people. If Chinese takeaway food over here was actually authentic, I don’t think it would have the same popularity.
SPplayin@reddit
Yes there is no adaptation in African or Carribbean food across the board. The dishes are made the same way they're made originally.
Not to mention I think there's definitely a whole argument to be made about not only there being a lack of a template, it wouldn't be looked on favourably by African parents
bertiebasit@reddit
Most ‘Indian’ food is actually Pakistani- India gets the credit for some reason
dafyd_d@reddit
Probably because Pakistan didn't exist until 1948.
bertiebasit@reddit
Well that needs to change then. Regardless, most take aways and restaurants didn’t exist until the 70’s
dafyd_d@reddit
Places that serve that kind of food often don't actually specify and the older places can easily be old enough for the people who started them to have been around before partition. In any case, Pakistani and (most) northern Indian cuisines aren't very different, particularly as the dishes in this context are altered for the UK anyway.
red_nick@reddit
I love ofada/ayamase, but I don't like offal :/
Infamous_Tough_7320@reddit
It's not that they're considered better it's probably more down the fact that people weren't as exposed to them.
That's exactly why (the best example I can think of) Lebanese has absolutely taken off in the past decade and a half. No one knew what hummus or shawarma was not too long ago.
Goosepond01@reddit
I don't think the majority of people can even have a say because they probably have not had that cuisine before, or at best have only had a very narrow taste of it.
I'm not a big expert on it but it's full of a lot of very nice flavours, I could see it working very well with a lot of other foods, a curried goat burrito would be great, jerk chicken is great, saltfish is nice and goes well with rice.
Extra-Height2017@reddit
You do really - they're just not considered foreign. I am living in German speaking Switzerland and i am always having foods explain to me and i am like, yeah we have that... doughnuts, apple strudle, burgers, breads, there's way more then you'd think.
Sea_Act_5924@reddit
This right here, absolutely terrible take.
PsychologicalRun1911@reddit
Yes all cuisines are the same.. haha they're all equally good and bad.. haha come on be an adult.
gianniboi@reddit
the terrible take is how it relates to Caribbean food, which is absolutely fucking incredible. No reason to bring up that 'some foods are bad' when talking about Jamaican food and the like
KEW95@reddit
How so? Our food would be too bland/mild for lots of people from other countries and cultures. That’s just the reality of cultural and regional foods.
decisiontoohard@reddit
We literally have mustard and horseradish that burns too much most other cultures... We have vinegar and anchovy based sauces, stews full of spices and wine, sausages full of spices and herbs, gravies made of concentrated flavour, sugary spiced fruit desserts, and cheeses so strong they'll make your eyes water.
Ineducado.
Goosepond01@reddit
I'm sick of people thinking that because something isn't spicy or caked in tons of different bold seasonings that it's somehow bland or just straight up bad.
fresh flavours can be amazing too, like steamed asparagus is absolutely amazing without anything and full of flavour, just a bit of lemon or some butter on some fish is great, so many more examples.
KEW95@reddit
It isn’t bad. It’s mild/bland by comparison. Those aren’t the same thing. Downvotes piling in by defensive people, rather than just recognising that our food is mild/bland compared to many others. That is okay. It doesn’t mean our food is crap.
Goosepond01@reddit
bland is essentially bad and mild isn't true either and it downplays the complexity of flavour.
complexity can be about a curry with a billion different spices in it all balanced to create a hot but tasty dish, it can also be about delicate perfectly cooked white fish with a squeeze of lemon to call it mild is a bit of an insult
KEW95@reddit
Bland/mild = not bold. Most of our staple foods aren’t bold flavours. That is okay. They are still good. If people assume “flavours are milder” to mean “our food is crap”, that’s on them.
Goosepond01@reddit
we have a wide variety of complex cheeses, earthy, ripe, sharp you name it, we have stews with deep rich flavours, something I'd consider bold, english mustard is bold and can be used well in lots of dishes or as a condiment.
we have bold fresh flavours, intensely meaty fresh lamb in rich gravy, meaty pies, sweet, sharp complex desserts, plenty of stodgy ones too.
bland should be reserved for plain steamed veg or boiled potatoes or plain rice, calling most british food bland is an insult and is wrong.
KEW95@reddit
It’s an insult if you take it that way. Most of our food is considered milder/blander than many others. That is a fact. You can check online if you’d like to look into it yourself. Most people are not chefs when they’re cooking at home. Seasoning and such is less used than in many other cultures. White Brits’ food is typically considered less flavourful than many other countries’ food. You don’t have to like it or agree for that to be the case.
Most white Brits are not cooking or eating meals like you’ve described. They will therefore not be as likely to search out other foods that are more seasoned/boldly flavoured, that they are less familiar with.
Of those things you’ve described, how many are regular home-cooked meals for the average Brit? Now think about how most Asian, African, Caribbean, South American, etc. families cook regularly. Their day-to-day food is more likely to be stronger and/or spicier than the average white Brit’s day-to-day food. You’re getting offended while talking about British food that most Brits don’t experience at home very often. I’m talking about the British food most white Brits are used to, not the British food they can get at restaurants every so often or make themselves if they enjoy cooking recipes from scratch at home and are able to do so (which is not the majority).
Look at the average day-to-day foods from other cultures, then look at ours. They aren’t on the same level in regard to boldness or depth, and that is okay. You don’t need to be insulted that our food is not considered to be as strong or spicy as elsewhere in the world, nor that the average white Brit isn’t used to strong flavours for most dinners.
mo_tag@reddit
Mostly agree with you but you'd be surprised how bland most South American food is.
ALA02@reddit
Steamed asparagus is bland as fuck, what are you on about? Sure the texture is nice but it really doesn’t taste of much at all. I’m all for flavours that aren’t spicy still being super flavoursome and enjoyable, but steamed asparagus is a really weird example to use.
phetea@reddit
"MAYO IS TOO SPICY FOR WHITE PEOPLE DEEEEERP"
Sick of it. A Sunday roast, fish and chips, sticky toffee pudding, full English, beef wellington, pigs in blankets, toad in the whole, crisp sandwhiches...ok i mignt be slightly running out now.
omniwrench-@reddit
You don’t see German restaurants because ‘German food’ is just considered ‘food’ to us
Hamburgers and hotdogs are common, we eat shnitzel but we call it a cutlet, pretzels and gateau are common too
It’s all just bread and meat
PsychologicalRun1911@reddit
I don't know. When I go to Germany and eat traditional German food it's quite different.
AdministrativeShip2@reddit
We've got German Doner Kebab?
Erivandi@reddit
The Bier Halle in Glasgow is very good. It has great German food like... pizzas, hotdogs and nachos. Oh.
ldn-ldn@reddit
I don't know about the whole of UK, but there are plenty of German restaurants in London. German Christmas markets are huge too, full of wursr and beer.
PsychologicalRun1911@reddit
Not really. German probably wouldn't crack top 20 cuisines in London by number of restaurants.
It's funny how I say let's not pretend and then comments are everyone pretending all cuisines are equal.
Reddit is so predictable.
Entfly@reddit
Plenty is a massive overstatement, and London is big enough that there's always going to be more restaurants to serve a certain niche than others
HoundParty3218@reddit
German restaurants used to be popular in the UK before WW1
Simbooptendo@reddit
Das ist good bratwurst innit
inside-outdoorsman@reddit
So was rickets
bahumat42@reddit
I used to have a local german restaurant. It was great.
The recent hospitality industry troubles brought it down though.
eesmash@reddit
not as tasty maybe
Baddog1965@reddit
Caribbean food tends to still have the bones, such as curried goat. Other cultures' food has been subtly anglicised to make it more appealing to the broader British palate. I think that's partly the reason.
Immediate-Cow-6183@reddit
Bones in stews and the like is a safety issue. Choking is not fun !! Many cultures also chop up chicken instead of jointing it. It's positively dangerous and catering training in thre UK forbids chopping chicken bones. A bit of care and consideration for your customers make a difference! Accusing your customers of not being able to "handle" bones is the way to run an unsuccessful restaurant!!
_Cridders_@reddit
I think one thing is it's not so much bones that are off-putting, it's the fact they've been cut so that you get shards of bones. The first time I had curried goat it was from a market food truck, and I kept thinking the plastic fork prongs had snapped off in it 😂
ATSOAS87@reddit
This is part of the reason I avoid Carribbean food when I'm out.
The bones are so annoying.
Flat-Leading-2520@reddit
It always blows my mind as a someone with Caribbean heritage that so many English people can't handle bones with their meat. Not even fiddly ones like fish but solid bones like the curried goat you mentioned.
Infamous_Tough_7320@reddit
it is bizarre but I don't think it's a widespread issue. Every English person's Sunday roast should have bones in it if its a proper roast
decisiontoohard@reddit
Fr, English history is full of bones in food. Roast chicken, oxtail soup, whole fish, shanks, ribs... They're all traditional English foods.
I don't know. Maybe at some point kids were given nuggets and chicken breast precut for them and got the idea that bones were optional or inconvenient, because it's a really childish attitude, and it is really weird how many people in the UK can't deal with anything more than a drumstick.
milkfilled_boba@reddit
As a British born person of African origin, (Gambian to be exact) there seems to be a lot of answers accounting for Caribbean, not so much African.
In terms of lack of African food it’s rather complex, first off Africa is a huge continent with lots of countries, each country has different foods, heck even each ethnic group within a country will hugely varying foods as opposed to Indians/Pakistani/Chinese who dominate the immigrant demographic in the UK. It is just 3 countries.
Contrary to popular belief, people of African origin only make up less than 2.5% of the population, and the vast majority live in London. African immigration is also fairly recent as opposed to their Caribbean and Asian counterparts.
Coupled with the fact that the average Brit has no sort of exposure to the African palette due to reasons mentioned above. I believe maybe if there was more exposure to certain African countries’ foods that appeal to the English palette, things may improve as there definitely are foods out there I’m sure many British people would love (my husband is white English and there are some foods made by my African mother which he absolutely loves).
Examples include Senegalese ‘poulet Yassa’ comes to mind, it is chicken with caramelised onions, also peanut stew which is similar to Malaysian satay, and Jollof rice, these are some strong contenders.
I will also say that the constantly overplayed stereotype that Africans “don’t have food” and “starving kids in Africa” all play a role, (damn you, well meaning poverty ads).
Also during colonial times, Asians had the upper hand with entrepreneurship, Africans not so much, as they had a tougher time with thousands of years of slavery etc and in my opinion being treated the worst out of all the colonial countries (for pretty obvious reasons), stuff like this obviously has a knock on effect even to trivial things like food, where most Africans tend to have a survival mindset, focusing on ‘hustling’ rather than taking the risk and starting food businesses.
I could go on and on as I’m sure there are many more reasons but these are what I can think of at the moment.
No_Account_105@reddit
Because they are famous for never having anything available. Oxtail? ME NO HAV DAT
dabooldawg123@reddit
Cause its not that great tbh. Not trying to be a jerk but..
Kamila95@reddit
I prefer Caribbean and African (West or East) over Indian food.
undernopretextbro@reddit
That’s fine, but there’s a reason the majority of the world doesn’t.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Because there’s no such thing as Afro Caribbean food. It’s just Caribbean food and African food. And there’s lots of it in bigger cities. I love a bit of jollof
the_wally_champ@reddit
Ah but whose jollof is best?😂
Colour4Life@reddit
lol please don’t start a war.
Nigerian btw 🏆
CaptainPGums@reddit
Dumpster. Rubbish. Juice.
IYKYK.
USS_Barack_Obama@reddit
How do you pronounce "plantain"?
Colour4Life@reddit
Lol I say Plan-ten.
But in Nigeria it’s called Dodo.
Liney22@reddit
Dodo is fried plantain not when it is raw
blancbones@reddit
Love it however the Scotch bonnet does not love me.
Anxious_Ideal_6207@reddit
Nice try, but Sierra Leonian is the one ☝️
fookreddit22@reddit
I pissed off my Nigerian housemate by telling her that her jollof rice was not spicy. I don't even know if it's supposed to be spicy but it wasn't.
thisthrowawaythat202@reddit
*liberian
ImThatBitchNoodles@reddit
I love Nigerian jollof, shame I can never get the consistency right.
the_wally_champ@reddit
Lit the touchpaper there didn’t I 😂
How_did_the_dog_get@reddit
The Nigerian guy at work says Nigerian.
But then said Party rice is better.
Its jollof but cooked on a bbq, the smoke gets in the rice and you have smoked rice jollof.
bobble173@reddit
That sounds unbelievable 😭 never regretted living in a flat more lol Stealing my parents bbq this summer to try this
How_did_the_dog_get@reddit
I tried a few years ago. I have a random cast iron pot that i found.
It didn't really work I'm not sure why. I didn't even try to make jollof, just rice. I think it was too cold and not really right conditions. It needs to be burried in coals.
Like the weird never fail method of oven cooked rice.
pajamakitten@reddit
I have Nigerian and Ghanaian colleagues. I love knowing I can start a war with this.
Most_Moose_2637@reddit
If you have Indian and Pakistani colleagues, next time they play cricket, ask whether this match decides who gets Kashmir.
pajamakitten@reddit
Only Indian colleagues sadly. I suppose asking which style of biryani is best might work.
pineapplewin@reddit
I demand samples of all to find out!!
Pretty-Objective5151@reddit
Auntie Olu’s
Ironfields@reddit
Whichever one makes it into my face hole the quickest.
Ironfields@reddit
Whichever one makes it into my face hole the quickest.
when_music_hits@reddit
Ghana 100%, I'll endure Nigerian though.
the_wally_champ@reddit
I’m a Senegalman myself, but broadly I’d say jollof>all other rice anyway
cold_tap_hot_brew@reddit
What are the reasons why Asian immigrants did and Caribbean immigrants didn’t?
kimbastern@reddit
I think Caribbean people were facing barriers others weren’t so starting up and maintaining anything was a struggle.
There were other things also but I would put that in the top 3.
cold_tap_hot_brew@reddit
What barriers were they facing that Chinese & Indian were not? Obviously I’m speaking in very general terms. This topic is fascinating me now it’s been brought to my attention.
kimbastern@reddit
I’ll start by saying all groups faced discrimination. It’s seems on here talking about anti black racism immediately gets you downvoted. Anything I do say, can easily be referenced online.
People from the Caribbean were often channelled in to low paid jobs, but these turned into stable jobs. This can be looked at either. Having this stability enabled them to help the rest of the family. Entrepreneurship was a risky endeavour. Even now the community is quite risk averse.
They faced housing discrimination, the way other groups were able to get around this was through the restaurant/housing setup etc. That discrimination extended to many public spaces. No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish.
Banks would not lend to Black people, other groups had “positive” discrimination in this area, so it was a little bit easier. The stereotype was that Asians were industrious and already entrepreneurial. The stereotype for Caribbeans was the opposite. This also meant that landlords etc., would also not rent commercial spaces to them.
Other groups also had a larger extended network that clustered in particular areas, some were family units. They could work together in their businesses.
When Caribbean people did build these businesses they were often attacked on a regular basis. Suppliers and customers would discriminate as well.
People on here are going to argue with me that this was not the case. The Windrush inquiry basically stated that the acts (such as destroying their travel papers) against the Windrush groups was an attempt to “..keep Britain White”. So, this level of discrimination was even at the state level.
cold_tap_hot_brew@reddit
Forgive my ignorance if this is an incorrect summary but are you saying that it was a mix of inability to work the system for trading in the same way as Asian immigrants, plus cultural risk aversion and racism towards black being worse than towards Asians?
I’m well north, way up in Scotland and our immigrant families were always Asian and honestly, I just assumed it was based on the weather as most times I have seen black folk up here they very often seem to really dislike the cold. I get that, I struggle with too much humidity heat. Florida was hard going for me on some days.
I’m not here to downvote you or cause crap, I’m genuinely just interested maybe because I love takeaways from other countries but mostly because it’s interesting to learn.
We have HEAPS of Ukrainians up here now, we took in many mums and kids at the start of the war and they’ve settled in nicely now and when I think on it, none of them have opened up takeaways and I wonder about that now too.
It is strange that we mostly only do Turkish, Indian and Chinese for takeaways. That being said, Ethiopian, Japanese, Thai and many other sit in restaurants can be found in the nearby cities.
Adventurous_Spot1183@reddit
In terms of Ukrainians, many who came here were professionals and many also initially thought it was a temporary move, so no need to set up businesses. There is also less demand for Ukrainian food
cold_tap_hot_brew@reddit
Having a look over their heart food, I’d imagine demand would be here after folk tried it. Looks good. I’m talking as a Scot from the highlands where we commonly serve mince n tatties, stovies, Cullen skink, haggis/black/white puddings so maybe things like Salo would work better here than most places? Chicken Kiev is already popular though.
I hope to see a Ukrainian eatery pop up somewhere but I take your point about them being displaced professionals. That makes sense. One of my good mam pals is Ukrainian, I’m going to make a business plan. :)
watch out for our Balmoral chicken Kiev hut :)
Adventurous_Spot1183@reddit
Our local church does a Ukrainian meal once a month which is lovely but with the current state of hospitality I can't see it being a good business
cold_tap_hot_brew@reddit
Aww man don’t go spoiling my little imaginary new takeaway hut with that yucky realistic sensibility. Borscht and stovies = Borstovies.
Again, you’re right. Boo!! lol.
Adventurous_Spot1183@reddit
Most of the windrush generation were recruited into jobs like nursing, bus driving etc. whereas the Chinese largely came to work in things like textiles and when that industry shut down expanded into restaurants. The new waves of Asian migrants have tended to come without fixed jobs (often accompanying someone with a fixed job) and have set up markets and restaurants.
There are a lot of Carribbean and African restaurants in areas with large populations of those backgrounds though now. Not as popular as most Chinese/Indian have been altered to the British market
cold_tap_hot_brew@reddit
Oooh, that’s a very good answer, thank you very much for taking the time :)
fundytech@reddit
I think Asian immigrants were more likely to setup a business than their Caribbean counterparts. Food obviously being a massive sector with little entry to barrier made it a popular choice for many. Especially as the cuisine became very popular here in the UK.
I also think the Muslim population specifically brought a market (halal meat) to the UK that wouldn’t have been provided by other groups in the UK. Therefore there was a demand for food that the Muslim population couldn’t get from other communities. I think this played a significant role too.
CptBigglesworth@reddit
Similarly vegetarian food from Hindus.
ToughImprovement276@reddit
I was coming to say just this, Afro-Caribbean just means black Caribbean. It’s not shorthand for African and Caribbean.
I suppose one could argue that Afro-Caribbean food is distinct from indo-Caribbean food or Chinese/sino-caribbean food. But ultimately it is all Caribbean food.
mattfoh@reddit
TIL I had honestly always thought it was short hand for either African or Caribbean people
superioso@reddit
The Caribbean is diverse with English/french/Spanish/Dutch etc inferences, from English the arfo-caribbean nations/territories like Jamaica/ Indian influenced Guyana or Trinidad, or older Spanish speaking nations each with their own food culture (Cuba, Dominican Republic etc)
josiejgurl@reddit
Afro Caribbean because they were Africans bought over to the Caribbean during the slave trade.
basod1@reddit
I’m not versed industry. What are the historical reasons?
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Different skill level and employment opportunities and culturally very different. Most Caribbean immigrants had public sector jobs and at a minimum, O levels (they grew up in the same grammar school system that existed in the UK at that time). Most immigrants from the Indian subcontinent were from impoverished rural regions and had limited education and literacy. The Kenyan and Ugandan Asians were different, they were primarily middle class professionals and represented a tiny number of Asians in the UK.
SpeechWeird5267@reddit
What industry/profession did Caribbean immigrants tend to do/prioritise on? I would like to understand.
(I'm of the south East asian variety. )
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
Bis drivers was the old cliche.
happybaby00@reddit
railways, nhs, postmen.
clutchnorris123@reddit
We lost so many working calss people in wars we appealed to the commonwealth/colonies for help to rebuild the nation. Most worked in vital roles like nhs, construction etc
DarrenTheDrunk@reddit
That’s bollocks, the vast majority of the rebuilding was done by locals, the first wave of post war immigrants were ex-forces looking for work. The rest followed when they heard there was work available.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Lol no. We did not import builders from the Caribbean. They were mostly recruited for public sector work, the largest employers being NHS, British Rail and London transport. The largest immigrant group in the construction industry post war was the Irish and it remained that way until the Poles started arriving in significant numbers in the 90s
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Many people from the Caribbean came to Britain on direct employment visas. They were recruited from their home countries and came to Britain already with a job, usually in the public sector like London transport or the NHS.
Altruistic_Fruit2345@reddit
Also because "Chinese' and "Indian" food here is not very authentic, it's been changed to reflect British tastes. African and Caribbean food seems to have had less of that, for reasons I won't speculate on.
magrandan@reddit
Because nothing comes close to tikka masala and butter chicken 😁
Weary_Sun534@reddit
Everytime ive had meat at a caribbean place its weird cuts full of bones & gristle..
Not to my taste, its a hazard trying to get through the stuff.
2infinitiandblonde@reddit
As someone from the Caribbean, unfortunately all you have access to is Jamaican food, which imo is not even in the top 5 Caribbean food. Jerk and oxtail are decent, but I’d say 9 out of 10 Jamaican places in the U.K. don’t take the time to do it right. They can’t be rushed.
Trinidad and Guyana are probably the best and do Caribbean curry way better than Jamaica due to the large Indian diaspora. Not many of them living in the U.K. though. Trinidadian Pelau and Guyanese ‘cook up rice’ are leaps and bounds ahead of Jamaican rice and peas.
Bajans and Grenadians do pretty good fish, and amazing provisions and macaroni pie (Caribbean mac and cheese). If you’ve never had breadfruit Oil down, you’ve not lived life yet.
Surinamese have an amazing blend of indian, Chinese, Polynesian cuisine but I’ve never met a Surinamese in the UK. You get loads of Surinamese places in the Netherlands though.
Haitian food is fire, but their first language is French and they tend to flock to the U.S. as they have no colonial ties with the U.K.
McQueensbury@reddit
Hit the nail on the head, there's more to Carribbean cuisine than just Jamaican food. When it comes to cuisine from Africa I've had Nigerian, Ghanaian, Ethiopian, Moroccan, South African, Guinea Bissau and many more in the UK which is quite a range.
African cuisine has started to get more recognition at the upper scale in Chisuru and Akoko etc....
paulmclaughlin@reddit
I'm sure someone's going to start selling doubles at festivals eventually. Cheap to make, vegan, doesn't need a plate or any cutlery.
ATSOAS87@reddit
Doubles?
paulmclaughlin@reddit
Curried chickpeas served in two (hence doubles) fried flatbread.
If you're not used to spicy food, don't order them with "plenty" (of pepper sauce)
2infinitiandblonde@reddit
Mayybeee, but the reason doubles has been so successful in the major U.S. and Canada cities and not in the U.K. is because good doubles is made by proper working class people who would never get a visa to come work/live in the U.K.
If you want proper good doubles in the U.K. then that’s some illegal immigration à la New York style. Not such a favourable topic in the U.K. at the moment.
Ambry@reddit
I had oil down in Grenada and it was unreal!
Clockwork-Armadillo@reddit
I have a theory that the reason there's so few Indo-Caribbean people in the UK compared to the States and Canada is because it was too soon after indetureship had ended.
Basically some white people showed up offering jobs and passage on a boat and all the Indos were like "fuck that not this again, fool us once" 🤣
On a more serious note, you can get proper Indo Caribbean curry in Jamaica but its alot harder to find as we only make up like 3 percent of the population.
happybaby00@reddit
ngl you sounding like a salty small islander envious of jamaican prestige 😂
i-am-a-passenger@reddit
Part of it is cultural, people from the Caribbean generally are a bit less likely to embrace the entrepreneurial lifestyle.
Part of it is that Caribbean people assimilated and spread out rather quickly, due to their existing close cultural relationship with Britain. You don’t really see the high density grouping of Caribbean people (other than the few examples others have mentioned) like to see more often with other migrants.
crustycrisps0@reddit
Sorry but on what planet does terrible customer service mean better food
CommercialContent204@reddit
So crazy that this gets downvoted, lol... wtf.
No, there is no correlation between crap customer service and great food, what is this madness? If anything (and I'm not arguing for this, but logically speaking) better customer service would *suggest* better food, because of attention to every detail (from customer service to cooking).
Sounds like a culturally patronising thing to me, honestly.
i-am-a-passenger@reddit
On this planet
crustycrisps0@reddit
It's a lazy excuse for people from non-Western backgrounds which have different cultural approaches to manners and politeness. Being a twat doesn't make your food any better, and being nicer doesn't make it any worse*
i-am-a-passenger@reddit
You can be upset they aren’t Western enough, you can complain, you can wish it wasn’t so; but none of this will change the fact that this belief is very common within some cultures and with regards to certain cuisines.
crustycrisps0@reddit
They're in this culture. They should act like it. Yes I'll complain.
Going to Japan and behaving disrespectfully by not bowing when apologising, or speaking on trains is universally disparaged by the same people like you who give a free pass to people from places like Africa to behave like dickheads here, on the basis that it's "just their culture and common".
I reiterate - you are making a lazy excuse.
AvoCarDoughToes@reddit
🤣🤣 can tell exactly what you look like from this low IQ comment. Go and have your annual bath, porky.
i-am-a-passenger@reddit
Another bottom set racist who admires Japan and hates Africans, how original!
_Cridders_@reddit
I think it's a lot this.
There is a Caribbean Restaurant in my town that one day I sort of became aware that it was actually open, I'd subconsciously seen it but always assumed it had closed down. So dimly lit, boxes piled up in the window, shop sign wasn't lit up etc. They'd not made any attempt to make it look inviting at all, it genuinely looked closed down.
Late-Champion8678@reddit
I hate that the customer service thing is (largely) true (as a child of Nigerian immigrants). Places with amazing food but terrible staff attitudes +/- lack of availability of dishes with no notice or a game of ‘are they open or not?’
So many of these restaurants won’t grow a loyal customer base from the same community (why should I order jollof/oxtail/jerk chicken or Nigerian soups when I can make them at home?) and the community won’t necessarily recommend them to their non-African-Caribbean friends.
ATSOAS87@reddit
As I've gotten older I realise that people complain that the food in a restaurant isn't what they're used to at home as well. But that seems to be changing though.
Some of the worse attitude I have though was in a Nigerian restaurant. My girlfriend (Nigerian) at the time was taking the piss out of me about how bad Jamaican customer service in restaurants was.
In the place we went to, the girl behind the counter was so pointless and useless. I asked her what were the sizes, and she describes them, and she acted like I had asked for her kidney when I asked if she could go the short walk in the back to show me the container sizes. .
Late-Champion8678@reddit
Agreed! I have not bothered going out to Nigerian restaurants in years after too many times of ordering staples like rice and stew, jollof, even common okro or egusi soup, waiting hours only to be told they were out of a random ingredient.
Attitudes at Caribbean restaurants have been less than ideal but definitely not as bad.
Like, do you want me to spend money here or not? Am I your enemy? 😂😂
Drunkgummybear1@reddit
One of my favourite places to get lunch at college in Hulme was perhaps improved by the fact that you never knew whether they’d be open or not.
tdrules@reddit
Moss Side has some incredible BBQ joints and the worst customer service you will ever receive.
arkan86@reddit
The chicken dumplings from Chicken Run in Moss Side was top tier when I was at uni in the early 00’s
tdrules@reddit
They’re still very good
DJ_Personality@reddit
the chicken split still kills
Drunkgummybear1@reddit
If I’m not immediately judged for my complexion after walking in, I know the food’s going to be shite.
tdrules@reddit
If you’re not kissing your teeth I’m not buying your food lads
The_39th_Step@reddit
Buzzrocks? South Manchester has some good spots
discoveredunknown@reddit
Yes!! I literally just posted above to ask if it was this place, is it still there? Incredible place.
The_39th_Step@reddit
Yeah still there!
Drunkgummybear1@reddit
I can’t remember the name of it to save my life but it was on the market near Asda. Buzzrocks was pretty good but a bit far. There was also a food truck on Chorlton Road that had dumplings only rivalled by my step-dad’s mum.
The_39th_Step@reddit
I know both the ones you mean
discoveredunknown@reddit
Buzzrocks?
MotherofTinyPlants@reddit
Cool Runnings?
Drunkgummybear1@reddit
Fuckin loved kool runnings. That’s the food truck on Chorlton Rd right? Their dumplings were so good. The one I’m thinking of was on the market near Asda but that was also a regular spot.
SlowTortuga@reddit
I have been going to kool runnings for close to 20 years. It is still as good today as it was back in the day. No shrinkflation and no drop in food quality but obviously it is not the budget type food that it once was.
ware2read@reddit
This ^^
happybaby00@reddit
"we no have dat"
TheSinsaMode@reddit
The customer service doesn't help.
Obvious-Water569@reddit
It's an interesting question.
Personally I love Caribbean food - African food, not so much but still do enjoy some dishes. Most of the time I'd rather have Caribbean food than Indian.
I'm sure there are cultural and socioeconomic reasons that East Asian food has more of a foothold here but I'm not sure what they'd be.
wilof@reddit
There was a Caribbean place in my town that appeared and honestly it was my favourite place to go for food. The goat curry was next level same with jerk chicken. Gave you good size portions too. Then one day it closed and vanished. I have to drive past the location on my way to work and I still miss it RIP wings'n'dat forever in my heart
Nick_30_Help_Me@reddit
Jerk chicken is p popular
Ironfields@reddit
Not in the north. I wish it was.
doupydoupy@reddit
Neither in the south. I think it's pretty much just a london thing.
TooRedditFamous@reddit
No it's huge in bristol
aa690@reddit
That is where most black people in the country live to be fair.
Mexican food in America is famously only good in the west and the South.
A_Cupid_Stunt@reddit
Bristol too
twoquietsuns@reddit
Popular in Reading - I can think of a decades old restaurant, Perrys and many more (https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurants-g186363-c10-Reading_Berkshire_England.html), we have a large long time settled Jamaican community.
thenorthmerchant@reddit
This is an East-West divide, it's everywhere in Manchester. Cross the Pennines and nowhere to be seen
godsavedonalduck@reddit
Only in areas of Manchester with a high African or Asian population.
Most parts of Manchester don't have that many Carribbean places. Especially north of the city (apart from moston)
Source: lived in Manchester all my life.
Ironfields@reddit
Yeah, I'm east of the Pennines.
when_music_hits@reddit
Go go gadget arms
thenorthmerchant@reddit
Im still in Yorkshire so trusty jerk carrier pigeon on its way
Anxious-Potato-7323@reddit
Chicken would definitely taste better.
arichard@reddit
Like Hollands pies in chippies. Not that that means anything here I guess.
GlennSWFC@reddit
Used to love a Holland’s pie from the chippy until they seemingly all decided to start microwaving their pies.
tdrules@reddit
Leeds has a thriving Afro Caribbean community
PudinaRaita@reddit
Lots in Sheffield, lots in Leeds
solnyshka@reddit
Definitely not 'everywhere' in Manchester
O_C_Demon@reddit
Plenty in Far Town in Huddersfield mate.
Bolly_Eggs@reddit
Get yerself to Leeds, tons of banging Carribbean kitchens.
Maureens anyone?
denile87@reddit
Go to any town or city where there is a settled Jamaican community and you will find jerk chicken. Plenty of towns and cities in the north where you may find jerk chicken; Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Huddersfield, Bradford to name a few.
But, if you want second rate Jamaican inspired food just go to your nearest Turtle Bay branch for a more sanitised experience.
Sad_Meringue7940@reddit
Turtle Bay is Caribbean food for white people
Party-Werewolf-4888@reddit
Im in Liverpool and dont think there's an abundance of Caribbean food. It certainly wouldnt be an option on my food delivery app (sadly). I actually drove to Manchester yesterday for a plaintain wrap 🤣
denile87@reddit
You never been to Ragga’s on Smithdown??
Party-Werewolf-4888@reddit
No, thats pretty far from me but I will make an effort to go!
Kooky-Grapefruit-941@reddit
This is the way
Where there are those communities there is the food
Every town in the UK had south Asian and Chinese Hong Kong folk
Remote-Ad5853@reddit
I would still say chinese/Indian takeaways aren’t following that pattern, small villages with no such community can have one, and if a family do live there, they may have moved there to start the business
Ivashkin@reddit
Likely the biggest difference - the Carribbean migrants to the UK tended to cluster together in big cities, Asian and Chinese migrants spread out more.
SpecialistAd1779@reddit
It very much is in Leeds - we've got a sizeable Carribbean diaspora population.
Technical_Penalty_46@reddit
Ah yes, the infamously homogenous ‘north’
Loud_Ad_9187@reddit
It's popular further up north
paulmclaughlin@reddit
Jerk is only one style of cooking though, there are plenty of other Caribbean dishes
Remarkable_Swan1714@reddit
Was about to say just that! The idea that Caribbean populations in the uk are homogenous and would automatically support local restaurants isn’t true.
As someone married to a Bajan, the focus on Jamaican food as the only Caribbean food is reductive and annoys a lot of Caribbean people from smaller islands!
The food my mother in law cooks is totally different from what you’d get in any Caribbean restaurant as it’s more homely, takes ages and isn’t the sort of thing that would work well in a restaurant. My husband and his family wouldn’t eat out at “Caribbean restaurants” as the food isn’t what they know and love, so the idea that a local Caribbean community automatically means supper for authentic local restaurants just doesn’t work sadly.
Cakeo@reddit
I mean obviously it would focus on a bigger migrant group and island.
rattlingdeathtrain@reddit
Absolutely. Curry Goat is my favourite but Ackee & saltfish, rice & pea, plantains, and patties all are fantastic too
liltrex94@reddit
Chicken with rice and beans is very popular
Lopsided-Wave-6141@reddit
Rice and peas
EUskeptik@reddit
Traditionally it was gungo peas but most recipes now use red kidney beans. It’s still called rice and peas though.
-oo-
Lopsided-Wave-6141@reddit
In most carribean families we still use both peas depending on what we are cooking.
EUskeptik@reddit
We use both peas too. My wife prefers kidney beans because that’s what her mother used. I like them both but prefer gungo peas. We have a wonderful Caribbean grocery in town so can get just about anything we need. 😁👍
-oo-
Lopsided-Wave-6141@reddit
I don't mind either tbh. It's the kidney, liver and cow foot my nan used to cook that I tried to avoid.
EUskeptik@reddit
My mother-in-law cooked liver in a particular way that made it truly delicious. We never got the recipe so cannot reproduce it.
Kidney is OK with steak, not on its own.
Cow foot? No thanks! 😂
-oo-
Lopsided-Wave-6141@reddit
As a child and teenager that was the last thing I wanted to eat. Even now I hate the taste. I know its good for you, but I just can't.
pajamakitten@reddit
Helps people who have never had it visualise it though, otherwise they think rice with garden peas.
when_music_hits@reddit
Not keen on jerk myself, love some escovitch snapper though
EUskeptik@reddit
My wife grew up in Jamaica. We cook a lot of Jamaican dishes at home plus we have a selection of Caribbean takeaways to choose from. Escovitch fish is my speciality, I watched it being prepared and cooked in Jamaica and I love cooking it here.
-oo-
when_music_hits@reddit
I was fortunate enough to grow up in care with a Jamaican family, though I was banished from the kitchen for the most part, but I learnt alot and associate the smells with home due to the comfort that family offered. Love to cook!
EUskeptik@reddit
The warmest, kindest people on the planet. 🥰
-oo-
when_music_hits@reddit
100% ! They even took me to westmoreland (their home) once, and my foster brother and I have been back together several times since. Of course I've taken my own little tribe, too. One of the best places in the world I've been to so far.
EUskeptik@reddit
That’s truly wonderful! 🥰
My in-laws originally hailed from Spanish Town, St Catherine (father) and somewhere up country in Clarendon parish (mother). They met in London.
Father-in-law worked in the sugar industry, saved his money and came to England to study engineering. He worked for a precision engineering company while studying for an HND, then applied to Tate & Lyle for an engineering position on a sugar estate in Clarendon.
My wife was born in London and travelled to Jamaica with her parents and brother when she was two. She was educated in Jamaica and came to London after graduating from the University of the West Indies in Kingston. She has family here, in the USA and in Jamaica. We have visited all of them.
On one trip to Jamaica I was determined to drive around the whole of the island, starting in Montego Bay where we had attended a family wedding. We visited Negril and Savanna-La-Mar in Westmoreland. There could not be a greater contrast between the two places; laid-back tourism in Negril and the bustling commercial centre of Savanna.
Westmoreland was severely affected by Hurricane Melissa. Melissa hit very hard but Kingston was relatively unaffected.
My all-time favourite place in Jamaica is Treasure Beach.
-oo-
IslaLargoFlyGuy@reddit
So good!
Rho-Mu13@reddit
It is, but I find it also has lots of bones in where the chicken is seemingly prepared with a hammer and not a knife.
pullingteeths@reddit
Outside of London? No
PudinaRaita@reddit
Yes
Entfly@reddit
It's just not though, it's also a single dish. Even fried chicken shops do burgers and wings
Radiant_Chart3163@reddit
I absolutely agree.
catgod888@reddit
Yeh despite all the nonsense reasons posted here - Chinese food is ranked in the top 3 global cuisines in pretty much every survey conducted. It’s also perfect for dine in and takeaway.
Vaynar@reddit
Because no one wants to eat dirt and grass
selfinflatedforeskin@reddit
Goat curry is so good. Used to be a few good places around Deptford,no idea if still there.
Maleficent-Heart2497@reddit
I have no answer but I've lived in Bristol for the last 40 years and there's a big Jamaican influence but not much in the way of cuisine.
That's not too say there isn't any but nowhere near , say, Indian( Bangladesh) or Chinese which is as ubiquitous as they are across the country.
Maybe, and I stand to be corrected, it's because it doesn't lend itself to fast food? There's nothing fast about it!
ClarifyingMe@reddit
It takes longer to make the foods of where I think you're imagining and it is more expensive when doing it properly - this is just a general reason for inconsistences of quality and access, and why it'd be more difficult to stay in business even in bigger towns and cities.
Secondly, colonial history and of where people of the "commonwealth" would settle after coming.
Equity to open.
Racism and hierarchy of race in the white supremacist structure. It's well documented Black people in the UK were some of the least likely to be granted loans to be able to try business ventures.
Anyway, back to the 1st matter, the foods I think you're imagining, to make them at their peak actually it takes a lot of work and expensive ingredients. There is even party versions, home versions, and restaurant versions of some foods. That means they may have more range of seasoning, cooking technique or even less proteins or ingredients apart from the staples and 1 protein etc.
Finding the chefs and cooks for the labour of it means in small towns you're basically looking at a family affair or you convince the few other people from your country or close enough culture to abandon their existing job to bank on mostly white English people to accept the traditional foods when even Chinese and Indian foods have dishes which to me are absolutely vanilla but to others are "scary". HK chefs in the 60s and 70s abandoned many delicious recipes because the locals simply wouldn't do it.
So with that, most of them are cooks and not chefs who create dishes, do the RD for making home dishes more "appealing" is a lot of work and another skill. For example, if it was any of the western African dishes that use leaves or okra that become slimy, would they decide to start adding tomato into those dishes so the sliminess is reduced significantly?
Most African restaurants in London focus on appealing to people from their home countries and neighbours who understand, then whoever joins in is a bonus.
British people who aren't from those backgrounds need to take a plunge.
Lastly, in smaller towns it's more likely that there is an auntie selling food but she does it via WhatsApp and you just have to make friends with more diverse group of people to find out. Usually they'd be attending the same church or the 1/2 salons there to find out about it.
For food from the islands, specific groups dominate in the UK and also once again, ingredients can get expensive and cooking techniques can make it a much tighter operation. But others can correct me on that, that's just an assumption based on the different foods I've seen around and watched prepared on YouTube. For me, I found the humourous "we nah 'av dat" jokes from Jamaican restaurants was because it takes so long to make them that when it's out, it's out for the day.
MahoganyMaeSundae@reddit
Huh. Are you talking about foods from the other Caribbean islands because Jamaican food is very popular here in Manchester. I never see bajan, Trini or Haitian food here though.
milkfilled_boba@reddit
As a British born person of African origin, (Gambian to be exact) there seems to be a lot of answers accounting for Caribbean, not so much African.
In terms of lack of African food it’s rather complex, first off Africa is a huge continent with lots of countries, each country has different foods, heck even each ethnic group within a country will hugely varying foods as opposed to Indians/Pakistani/Chinese who dominate the immigrant demographic in the UK. It is just 3 countries.
Contrary to popular belief, people of African origin only make up less than 2.5% of the population, and the vast majority live in London. African immigration is also fairly recent as opposed to their Caribbean and Asian counterparts.
Coupled with the fact that the average Brit has no sort of exposure to the African palette due to reasons mentioned above. I believe maybe if there was more exposure to certain African countries’ foods that appeal to the English palette, things may improve as there definitely are foods out there I’m sure many British people would love (my husband is white English and there are some foods made by my African mother which he absolutely loves).
Examples include Senegalese ‘poulet Yassa’ comes to mind, it is chicken with caramelised onions, also peanut stew which is similar to Malaysian satay, and Jollof rice, these are some strong contenders.
I will also say that the constantly overplayed stereotype that Africans “don’t have food” and “starving kids in Africa” all play a role, (damn you, well meaning poverty ads).
Also during colonial times, Asians had the upper hand with entrepreneurship, Africans not so much, as they had a tougher time with thousands of years of slavery etc and in my opinion being treated the worst out of all the colonial countries (for pretty obvious reasons), stuff like this obviously has a knock on effect even to trivial things like food, where most Africans tend to have a survival mindset, focusing on ‘hustling’ rather than taking the risk and starting food businesses.
I could go on and on as I’m sure there are many more reasons but these are what I can think of at the moment.
ATSOAS87@reddit
Some people have found it mind blowing when I tell them I'm the first Black person to have worked in some of my jobs. There aren't that many of us.
Infamous_Tough_7320@reddit
I definitely agree with where you said that it's partially down to there being so many countries. Hardly anyone in the UK would be able to tell you the specific differences between each country's cuisine even though the differences are vast amongst the different African regions. Due to that fact, African food hasn't actually built a brand for itself in the UK. And as you said, due to colonialism and the underlying stereotype that African people are poor, when you say African food it unfortunately doesn't sound exotic to most people which is a real shame.
Teuchterinexile@reddit
I am quite surpised that African food isn't more common, although there are reasons for this as you describe. I work with a few Ghanaians and Nigerians so I have had authentic with west African food and I like it well enough to make my own attempts.
There does seem to be a growing demand for African food though, I even discovered a West African take away in Inverness a couple of months ago.
Adventurous_Spot1183@reddit
I will have to look out for poulet yassa
Intelligent_Bowl_485@reddit
Caribbean is everywhere wherever I’ve been. Not surprising with its deep and sumptuous flavours and creamy velvety textures. African food is definitely underrated though. Nigeria has so much to offer beyond jollof - many thick soups punching with unique umami flavours, sweet pounded yam to hold them, and a commitment to maximum flavour and dense chewy texture in the meat and fish.
Competitive_Ring82@reddit
Indian and Chinese food was heavily adapted to the UK palate and available ingredients. It is not 'authentic' in most UK takeaways or restaurants. While there are various African and Carribbean options, in my experience they mostly aim to be authentic and haven't created demand in the way Chinese and Indian food did in decades past.
himit@reddit
I think there's an extra degree of foreignness, too. The indian & chinese food that's popular here is essentially 'cooked familiar meat/veg with sauce'.
Caribbean and African food involves a lot of ingredients that we just don't recognise (like plantains).
Kamila95@reddit
I'd say authentic Caribbean food is more familiar to a British palette than authentic Indian or Chinese.
Infamous_Tough_7320@reddit
To an extent, yes but it depends on the dish we're talking about. I think curry goat has similar traits to British stew or casserole (even though it's originally French)
SpeechWeird5267@reddit
Where are you based? I'm based in London and I think that there are African and Caribbean joints.. but I somewhat understand and agree that it seems less.
OTribal_chief@reddit (OP)
i think london has to be considered the exception rather than the rule.
The_39th_Step@reddit
Lots in Manchester, Birmingham and I presume Bristol and Nottingham too
DrBunnyflipflop@reddit
Nottingham is decent, but not quite on par with Birmingham or London for multicultural cuisines as far as I'm aware.
I've been wanting a decent Ethiopian to open for years, the only one I'm aware of is just a very small cafe rather than a restaurant
The_39th_Step@reddit
If you ever find yourself in Manchester, I can recommend Habesha
apple_kicks@reddit
Probably big oart of it. Working class people from Caribbean didn’t really have money to open places so widespread and if anyone did its in parts of London tourists don’t go to especially in 70s-80s
People from India were probably already somewhat middle class and came over to put their kids in uk higher education. So they set up shop in middle class areas and people visited them more for it to spread
impamiizgraa@reddit
Definitely location based. I’m in east London where Indian restaurants are ten a penny (I am not a fan of Indian cuisine personally) with fewer Caribbean and West African restaurants but enough that I get my fill of jerk and jollof as a happy South African!
Ironfields@reddit
I don’t think there’s a cuisine on earth that you couldn’t find an example of in London.
when_music_hits@reddit
I did find an Ethiopian restaurant over north finchley but sadly the few times I went, most the menu was unavailable, really all I wanted to do was try their doro wat.
rachaelg666@reddit
Loads of good Ethiopian restaurants around Kennington and Stockwell!
when_music_hits@reddit
Thank you, I'll keep it in mind for next time I'm on a mission
Pristine_Speech4719@reddit
There used to be a bunch of them on Caledonian Rd too
when_music_hits@reddit
Control tower on coldharbour lane has the best Guinness punch I'd ever had...wish I could find a dance at the arches next door, sadly it doesn't seem to be used as a venue anymore
Swayfromleftoright@reddit
In London there is a food joint for everything. One of the best things about the place
rbrown1991@reddit
I understand the question and don't have a perfect answer. But something I noticed is that the most popular dishes in Indian and Chinese takeaways are much sweeter, less spicy and more Western than their traditional homeland dishes. One thing I like about visiting a major city is the chance to find a more authentic curry (not just spicy heat).
Maybe to become ubiquitous afro-caribean cuisine needs to develop it's more English friendly version. I love jerk chicken, but can't find it in rural Cumbria. It's also very spicy if you're looking for a takeaway to share with your grandmother. Or maybe the african and Carribbean people can suggest some of those Western friendly dishes to try.
Also I am increasingly dissatisfied with the number of takeaway places that now offer all of the cuisines averagely. Chinese places with a fish and chips offering or Turkish kebab places doing a curry on the side. It's becoming harder to find quality takeaway food (I'm sure it's great in London and Manchester, but I'm in Whitehaven).
Appropriate_Bid_9813@reddit
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but those cultures, especially Chinese culture puts a lot of emphasis on hard work, whereas as the Caribbean culture is seemingly more laid back and potentially less driven.
Just look at how many Chinese and Indian students there are at Universities in the UK.
Super-Surround-4347@reddit
Moved from London to near Liverpool. There's a gap in the market here for a genuine Caribbean place outside Liverpool city centre. A cheap 'yardie' type place would do fantastically here.
charlytune@reddit
Raggas on Smithdown? Thats the oldest one I know, and its pretty much a hole in the wall.
Super-Surround-4347@reddit
That's a little way from me but exactly the type of place I mean!
charlytune@reddit
Definitely check it out then! And while you're down that way have a mooch down Lodge Lane, theres all sorts of Middle Eastern /Arabic shops and takeaways and cafes down there. There also used to be an AMAZING Ethiopian restaurant but they closed down, gutted.
Super-Surround-4347@reddit
Definitely will! Long shot but don't suppose you know any further up? So nearer Crosby, Formby, Ainsdale Southport etc ?
charlytune@reddit
No idea, and tbh you're very unlikely up around that way. Those areas are not very diverse, and i wouldn't expect most people there to have a clue about Caribbean food.
denile87@reddit
Raggas in Smithdown used to (circa 2013) make some of the best Jamaican food I’ve ever tried. I haven’t lived in the area for a few years so I’m not sure how good it is now.
Powerful_Balance591@reddit
Some banging Caribbean restaurants near me, they seem to do quite well but yeah it’s not like 1 of each in every town minimum like Indian and Chinese.
Agitated_Camera_6198@reddit
Yeah my brother introduced me to a Jamaican place in our hometown and it was amazing. I still think about it, but I think between location and knowing the tastes of a lot of folks where we live it just couldn't keep going. Still gutted about that.
PartyPoison98@reddit
A few things really.
First of all, its all relative. I live in South London so I've got a great, readily available selection of African and Caribbean food near me.
Chinese and Indian food took off largely because they massively altered the cuisine to fit British ingredients/tastes, and a lot of the restaurants moved out into towns and suburbs to make it widely available.
African and Carribean food is largely unaltered from the original cuisine, at least compared to Chinese and Indian food, so has more ingredients and tastes that have less mass appeal in the UK. I'd also say that African and Carribean communities have remained in big cities more than Asian communities have too, which hasn't allowed for a bigger spread.
One thing I will say though is that Carribean food has expanded out in some areas. Jerk chicken is quite a popular dish, Turtle Bay is a common high street restaurant.
rammedearth@reddit
Turtle bay is popular in the same way British Indian and British Chinese takeaways are popular. Some things just aren’t appealing to the wider British taste. If the Chinese and Indian takeaways sold authentic food then it wouldn’t be as popular either. From my experience, Jamaican takeaways never stay open long and seem to have an issue with customer service and the standard way of operating is that you’re given what they have on offer that day. Usually serves people who already know and like Jamaican food
Jazzlike_Quiet9941@reddit
It's just not as good. Some great dishes though
easterbunni@reddit
I'd love me some Breadfruit
Wonderful_Hat7331@reddit
There used to be a lovely West African restaurant in Exeter called Afriteo, no idea what happened to it; I only made it in there twice annoyingly. I seem to recall the food was tasty but have no recollection of the service or atmosphere. Sad that it has gone. You can still see reviews of it and news articles online. Exeter has had a Moroccan restaurant for decades called Al Farid which is wonderful but I know you don't mean North African.
There's a good historical overview around the history of the popularity of Indian food in the UK here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1hueuan/how_come_indian_cuisine_became_hugely_popular_in/
Can't hyperlink on phone.
java_unscript@reddit
Cos their service is usually crap and because they tend to be rude and their shops are usually tacky.
South Asians have a genuine relationship with food and it goes hand in hand with hospitality..
In fact, Asian immigrants introduced various spices and other things to the Caribbean, which is what shaped modern cousine in those regions.
Glass_Chip7254@reddit
People vastly overestimate the amount of Afro-Caribbean people in the UK, because they are everywhere in the media (people of south Asian descent rarely make an appearance in terms of relative numbers). There are places in Manchester, Preston, etc., which have Caribbean restaurants, but I think it’s also hard to carve out a space if your signature dish is, say, jollof rice, when there are a tonne of other rice-based dishes that people might want to buy.
theegrimrobe@reddit
it really depends on area, sheffeild has some banging caribbean food - leicster did (may still)
Miserable-Reach-2991@reddit
Any recommendations for Sheffield? I’ve not really eaten Caribbean food past a bit of jerk chicken here and there but I’d like to try new stuff
theegrimrobe@reddit
ive not been in ages so tbh not really - the area round london road was pretty god for different stuff though
Fine-Night-243@reddit
If a Caribbean restaurant/takeaway opened at least one in literally every town or large village in the UK like there is with Indian restaurants, I'm sure they would become popular.
Puzzleheaded-Fix8182@reddit
British people palate I think.
Average British person doesn't like spicy or oily food. Also they don't like fermented stuff.
Also I don't think until now that african and carribean food spots have marketed themselves that well. We all know a jamaican spot with great food and questionable service.
Early_Retirement_007@reddit
It is pretty expensive thats for starters. Maybe lacking a bit of variety and pr I would say.
goonercaIIum@reddit
Pretty crap compared to the ones that really have taken off.
Poison_Jaguar@reddit
Mannish Water
Immediate-Cat-2146@reddit
It's not as good
ForwardLavishness379@reddit
It's a great point about the historical context of immigration and restaurant culture. You're right that jerk chicken is everywhere now, but it's true that the broader, incredible variety of Caribbean and African cuisines hasn't reached that same saturation. It's a real shame, because dishes like jollof rice or a proper curry goat could absolutely thrive in those small towns.
iffyClyro@reddit
I’m guessing it will have something to do with when and how different ethic backgrounds arrived to the UK.
apple_kicks@reddit
Class backgrounds. I wouldn’t be surprised if more middle class from India had more money to open restaurants or already ran them vs Caribbean were more working class.
OTribal_chief@reddit (OP)
The folks from the caribbean came at a similar time to the pakistani's and indians. they've been here since the 60's in larger numbers.
SpiritedVoice2@reddit
Majority of Indian restaurants are not run by Indians or Pakistanis. They are most often Bangladeshi run.
Afro caribbean migration started after the war, to help rebuild Britain and the beginnings of the welfare state. Many were recruited into the NHS, public transport or manual labour roles. They didn't need to rely on the restaurant industry to find employment or migration opportunities in the same way.
PudinaRaita@reddit
Were runnby Bangladeshis. Not sure that's the same now
gt94sss2@reddit
True, though many people don't realise that both Pakistan and Bangladesh didn't exist before 1947 and were both part of British India
tdrules@reddit
Most Pakistani’s that came over were dam builders, not much work like that here.
SnooHabits8484@reddit
It’s because most first-generation Caribbean folk came over having already got a job and very little language barrier, especially compared to someone from Guangdong or Sylhet (which are the specific regions that many the people who ran the oldschool Chinese and Indian places came from)
EUskeptik@reddit
My wife grew up in Jamaica. I adore her and the food, two great exports! We have visited Jamaica many times and the food is a big draw.
I live in Buckinghamshire. Our town of 65,000 people has two Caribbean restaurants and six takeaways.
I’d say Caribbean food has taken off here.
-oo-
Redsfan1989@reddit
Because most of the meat is bone based.
caravanserai67@reddit
Every time I have had it, it has been really disappointing. Like school canteen food with the flavours not coming through. Maybe needs a couple of really good restaurants to show us what we are missing.
RevFernie@reddit
People don't like picking meat off the bone, even though it taste better.
AdministrativeShip2@reddit
Looks out the window waves vaguely.
Excluding chicken shops. My town has several Caribbean restaurants. From several different islands. Mostly St Vincent or Jamaica based on flags.
We've also got a Nigerian, and a Ghanaian restaurant on the same street.
ConflictDesigner4293@reddit
It has, some great food, they can be very rip off prices and the people very rude. Which I get makes some great insta reels, but makes me expansions more difficult…
PM_Me_Ur-Cntrys_Folk@reddit
I would love to try more Caribbean food, but I'm vegetarian, and most Caribbean restaurants I see have *nothing* for me. At best they might have a cheese pasty.
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
I think it depends where you’re from/live. London has loads of both African and Caribbean restaurants/takeaways which makes sense as the vast majority of black Britons live in London.
The_39th_Step@reddit
Actually a minority of black people in England and Wales live in London (49.3%). It’s obviously by far the largest component but it’s far from the vast majority. There’s really large black communities in Birmingham and Manchester and then smaller but still large ones in other major cities.
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
Okay you’re being pedantic. According to the ONS there are ~2.4 million black Brits. And there are nearly 1.2 million black Britons living in London ie compared to other cities or regions, most live in London. Blah blah blah ‘it’s not 50% though’, whatever.
The_39th_Step@reddit
Your words have meaning. You said the ‘vast majority’ live in London. It’s technically not even 50%. It’s a plurality. You can call it pedantic but what you said is miles off. A vast majority is like 80%.
blahblahblah1234_@reddit
Give it a rest.
ilikecocktails@reddit
Loads by me in the midlands
Key_Improvement2432@reddit
I'm pleasantly surprised to see more Afro Carribean shops and restaurants opening up in Northern Ireland of all places.
Technical-Mention510@reddit
Turtle bay is a popular chain but yeah i guess it’s just so cheap and easy to set up and indian/chinese takeaway such a low barrier to entry.
No-Syrup-187@reddit
Plenty of yard food places in Bristol.. Brown stew chicken rice n peas 🔥🔥
cid8429@reddit
It’s expensive
BrendanOhPea@reddit
Cos we nah have dat
harambe_go_brrr@reddit
Personal experience having lived in areas with a large Carribbean community and eaten a lot of it, is the prices are quite high for a chicken leg and rice, but mainly that the service is usually terrible. Unfriendly staff, half the menu isn't available, get what you're given attitude, long waits and sometimes the chicken is from yesterday and warmed up again so very dry.
Sometimes it's amazing, cooked on a drum, but more often than not I used to pay a tenner or more and felt underwhelmed.
Maleficent-Drive4056@reddit
Brits just don’t think it’s as tasty as ‘Indian’ or ‘Chinese’ food.
clutchnorris123@reddit
Im Scottish so probably due to not many Carribean people coming here but no idea about the rest of the UK.
Loud_Ad_9187@reddit
Newcastle has plenty
peterbparker86@reddit
I am the whitest of the whites and I eat jollof and Suya on the regular, as well as Jerk chicken rice and peas. It's popular where I am but I do live in London.
Loud_Ad_9187@reddit
We eat that a lot up north as well
Loud_Ad_9187@reddit
Turtle bay for Jamaican food tangine is popular jerk chicken is popular in the north of England. Jollof rice is popular
Dartzap@reddit
I guess it depends where you are.
My tiny little town in the middle of nowhere had a Jamaican restaurant for years. The goat curry was amazing.
Where I live now there's a Turtle Bay (not great) but more recently a carribean supermarket opened, so potentially there's a critical mass of people needed to start seeing more food places open.
I often get the patties from Sainsbury's as well.
CommercialPizza434@reddit
Where I am in Birmingham there’s loads of African food but it’s mostly Ghanaian or Nigerian food, like pounded yam, egusi all that jazz. Southern African food like Braai is also coming into fashion. I see a lot Zimbabwean or South African shops popping up. There aren’t any franchises but on Uber eats and just eats etc etc there’s loads of independent, family kitchen run businesses that do takeaways. I quite like African food so I order from time to time.
when_music_hits@reddit
Biltong is some addictive drug! Whenever I go to get some steak from the south African shop near me, I end up buying £30 of chili snapsticks, and £30 of periperi biltong freshly sliced....can guarantee that even if it's just me eating it....I'm lucky if there is even dust left the next day.
CommercialPizza434@reddit
Honestly once you’ve had real billtong you can’t go back to that soft supermarket beef jerky. The different is incredible. I once brought some back from SA on holiday which I didn’t know wasn’t allowed at the time and no one checked me so I ended up with 2 1kg bags of biltong.
when_music_hits@reddit
The bagged biltong is a blatant Insult! And jerky...well I won't even bother entertaining that junk...it's soo sweet. Good on ya for turning smuggler! I accidentally done the same with bags of green coming back through schipol airport....I think I only got away with it because I had no idea that I had any left.
LegitimatePieMonster@reddit
I don't think we should be cheering meat smuggling.
Certain livestock diseases are endemic or poorly controlled in some countries- think foot and mouth - which is why we have strict laws on what can be brought in.
F&M was likely imported in smuggled meat. I watched a local farmer herad his dairy cattle in for slaughter during the F&M pandemic. He looked heartbroken - one of the saddest things I've seen.
Personalpriv78@reddit
Pretty easy to fly with green!
when_music_hits@reddit
I honestly didn't even consider when the nothing to declare guy walked past with a dog...I'm standing there with a record deck I picked up at the hook of Holland thinking to myself....what kind of muppet flies with things he shouldn't instead of mailing them back....turns out it was me.
Drunkgummybear1@reddit
I’m not sure if I’m some kind of saffa magnet or something but I always end up becoming mates with them at every workplace. Proper biltong is fucking delightful. If you ever get invited to one of their bbqs, don’t eat for at least 3 days in advance. And if you find any of the south asian variety, be prepared for some top tier samosas coming your way (alongside some pretty harrowing stories of apartheid told as though they’re totally normal).
when_music_hits@reddit
I get that, some guy I used to work with took me under his wing and to a couple of brais, too. The stories he had about being a solider in zim and stealing tanks from the rhodesian lot was something else. He actually made my own upbringing seem tame and pedestrian.
Drunkgummybear1@reddit
God it has been far too long since I’ve been to a good braai. Started at a new place in January and have already had a box of koeksisters dropped off at my bench so think I’m in with a good shout this summer lol.
One of the guys I used to work with never talked about his military days. But he used to work as a sign writer and would spend the rest of his time at the beach surfing. He would always talk about the time he got caught in a rip current and ended up coming back in on the whites only section. Got arrested and thought he was done for. Luckily one of the officers ended up being someone from his unit, who quickly got him away. Always seemed like there was more to that story.
happybaby00@reddit
Africans in birmingham are mostly gambians, I'm surprised they dont open as mcuh.
heroics-delta8s@reddit
Because it’s 95% goat. The none goat stuff however is very popular.
Nicename19@reddit
Because the cultures you mentioned are very industrious and entrepreneurial
lookhereisay@reddit
We had one Caribbean take away but it didn’t last very long (tons of Chinese, Indian take aways and other cuisines too).
I only got to try it once though. As others have mentioned the organisation/customer service wasn’t great. Never know when it was open, no clear menu up and if you did manage to get in they were very rude.
The one time I tried it was very good.
uncertain_expert@reddit
Personally I like the flavours, but I am not such a fan of eating meat stewed on the bone.
I think it would be more popular if the dishes were made with de-boned meat.
Agnesperdita@reddit
There is a Caribbean food restaurant chain Turtle Bay. Not saying it’s as widespread as some other cuisines, but our nearest one is popular and usually looks pretty full.
pajamakitten@reddit
Turtle Bay is to Caribbean food as Taco Bell is to Mexican food.
Agnesperdita@reddit
I suspected that Taco Bell vs Mexican food would be the comparison. I’ve never eaten at a Turtle Bay; my limited experience of Caribbean food is when a Trini friend has cooked for us (which is how I know curry goat is a culinary miracule) but if an inauthentic version of the food can manage to sustain a chain of 50 plus restaurants, maybe it’s a sign that better quality Caribbean food can potentially take off, even if it hasn’t done so yet?
pajamakitten@reddit
People like Turtle Bay for the cocktails, not the food.
ToughImprovement276@reddit
As someone born and raised in the Caribbean, turtle bay has nothing to do with the Caribbean.
It’s not at all similar to Caribbean food whatsoever.
N-F-F-C@reddit
It’s inauthentic
Background-Ebb-9366@reddit
There's not a lot of them about, I don't know why but there should be more.
Also it's hard to find a good carribean.
A lot of them are trash, I lived in Nottingham for a while and could not find a decent 1 anywhere.
Most of my families from Barbados so I may be a bit biased but majority are shite.
Theres an absolutey banging 1 in Croydon not far from East Croydon Station if your ever that way!! It's tiny and just around the corner from the black butchers.
Also, I think with the African food, most British peoples taste buds aren't into the flavours, I'm white but was raised eating All sorts coming fro Birmingham.
Ive took a few or my mates to carribean shops and they loved it, same lot went to African shops and hated it.
uwatfordm8@reddit
I feel like there's a reason you see reels online joking about in Caribbean places bad service = food good and lots of stuff being unavailable.
The food is good but usually if I ever see it it's in food trucks or something even less permanent like a stand. There's clearly some sort of cultural reason why there aren't as many shops because the food is pretty good.
ImpossibleAnywhere31@reddit
A lot of the other popular Food you see in the UK uses either similar stuff, or has dishes similar to the UK
Indian and Chinese are heavily 'westernized' for the Uk palet and would be quite different made in their respective countries, while African and Caribbean Food has not yet undergone that transformation.
NOFEETPLZXOXO@reddit
Brother I live in Bristol it’s what I live on
happybaby00@reddit
west/central african food has quite a different texture to it because of the swallows.
Since their resturants cater to other africans, they dont try to angliscise it like bengali ran indians do with their resturants.
The food's spice because of that is also not held back so white people who are not used to different textured foods alongside having a low spice tolerance tend to not like nor can handle it.
Adventurous_Spot1183@reddit
Like fufu?
happybaby00@reddit
yes but fufu has no taste to it
Defiant_Put_7542@reddit
I live in an extremely diverse area with an extensive array of amazing food that I love; Persian, Afghan, Kashmiri, Desi, Lebanese, Egyptian, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese. There is a high Carribean population too so I imagine that the Carribean food is as authentic as it's going to get.
I tried to like it. But I'm not able to appreciate dry, flavourless, capsacin-laced meat, accompanied by dry, flavourless rice with dry flavourless beans in. Combined with the distinct lack of any yoghurt-based sauce like most other cuisines have, it's unpalatable.
Alternative_Bug_8987@reddit
You've definitely had bad carribean food. It should be juicy as hell and lots of sauce (if you're talking about jerk chicken).
eventworker@reddit
Caribbean food tends to fall into one of three categories:
Versions of traditional British food that are typically seen as plain in the modern age by brits - pattys (pasties), stews, macaroni cheese, oxtail, boiled veg.
Fish that are hard to catch in waters near the UK or fruit that is hard to grow in Europe/expensive to transport (ackee being the ultimate in this)
Spicier meat dishes - curry goat and jerk chicken in particular - that are popular in the UK but have loads of competition.
While there is enough demand in the UK for there to be loads of businesses up and down the land doing this sort of catering, they will be highly clustered round immigrant communities.
Extra-Sound-1714@reddit
I have been to one very popular Caribbean cafe that has good customer service. It is always very busy. So the answer is decent customer service.
onionsofwar@reddit
In the case of Chinese restaurants, they are often set up as businesses and passed between owners as readily set-up with vendors and menus and recipes. It means that Chinese people can move in and take over without having to start from scratch, particularly helpful if your English isn't great. Since there's obviously market saturation, they end up being set up further and further out, there's enough demand because it's tasty but not spicy so palatable to British tastes.
I don't know much about Indian restaurants but similarly they were set up to cater to British tastes, originally always being restaurants and originally quite high-end, so they were not intended necessarily for the Indian diaspora. Quickly it became trendy after Brits got a taste for curry during the empire.
Caribbean food is popular now but I get the sense that jerk shops and the like were set up by Caribbean people for urban Caribbean communities. They tend to be more like lunchtime spots or deli style rather than sit-down restaurants. Chinese and Indian cuisines lend themselves, and intentionally lean into, this idea of exoticism whereas with Carribbean because it's more casual and less theatrical, maybe it ends up missing out on that same celebration. You see it a bit now with places like turtle bay but it's got a long way to go to catch up with Chinese or Indian in terms of acceptance.
Similar situation with latino food. The food is excellent, but it hasn't yet achieved widespread recognition beyond the latino community. While there are many Mexican restaurants, authentic latino restaurants are generally more casual and understated.
skibbin@reddit
Restaurants are labor intensive. Most Chinese and Indian places I know of are family run, sometimes by a large family. I don't know any large Caribbean families. The families i do know speak good English, have integrated into the society and aspire to the same sort of jobs everybody else does.
SheffDus@reddit
Because if you make it you get accused of cULturAL aPprOtiaTIon
RGLE29@reddit
Caribbean cuisine is a much much smaller population base for starters so will never be the same scale as Indian or Chinese. However Caribbean cuisine in restaurant format is becoming more and more popular. See 2210 restaurant in Herne Hill London for example.
badgerkingtattoo@reddit
I’m a middle class white guy and I cook Caribbean food at least once a week and my favourite takeaway is an authentic Caribbean place run by a local guy. My town has at least 3 Caribbean takeaways. No clue what you’re talking about.
SomeHSomeE@reddit
Lots of Carribean and African food in London.
Jamaican jerk chicken and bbq places are great.
Loads of Ethiopian and Eritrean places round me and they're shite.
dbxp@reddit
Depends where you go, there's a bunch here in Manchester and a long run of African and Caribbean places on Princess Road parallel to the Curry Mile
PristineKoala3035@reddit
What Asian restaurants are you comparing to Nando’s? African & Caribbean restaurants aren’t rare where African & Caribbean people live.
Whole_Necessary2040@reddit
Not as popular, obviously.
Frosty-Leopard5732@reddit
Its just not as good, chinese english rips the rulebook up and deep fries it, curries and kebabs are tasty, spicy and with a massive variety.
Caribbean food (prove me wrong) just doesn't have the range or punch. Plantain is fine, curried goat is fine, jerk chicken can be good but chicken with something on it is done by every other nation to varying degrees of success. Its just not going to stack up against the stiff competition that's already established
nicksinc@reddit
If we focus specifically on African food here, I think it’s because our western palates probably aren’t ready / right for it.
An androgen restaurant opened near me nor my partner or I liked a single item from the large takeaway we ordered. I can’t remember what it was exactly but a lot of it was dipping some gummy flavourless mashed potato type thing into a load of watery meat dishes.
I should add that we like nearly every other type of cuisine!
KEW95@reddit
I think they’re less common, but still popular where they are and at fairs/festivals. In majority white countries, where strong flavours and spices are…. often overwhelming to their palettes, African and Caribbean foods won’t be as frequently used by the majority. White people are largely known for milder/blander foods.
OTribal_chief@reddit (OP)
indian food is bland?
max1304@reddit
Try Indian food in mainland Europe or the USA. Very mild, creamy and toned down. I had a vindaloo in Châlons (on the way back from the Alps) that was milder than a CTM.
KEW95@reddit
Indian food isn’t bland, but it’s been discussed how often the flavours/spices aren’t as strong when made for Brits. White Brits who eat strong, spicy food from Asia are more likely to be the ones eating from African and Caribbean foods. Non-white Brits will typically have grown up with their cultural foods.
BrutalBananaMan@reddit
I watched a YouTube video where the expert on jerk chicken said authentic jerk chicken takes days to prepare. Not sure if that’s true or not but that would strike me as one reason. I’ve had Jamaican food but due to the ingredients it can get very expensive sourcing them over here. Same with African.
Separate_Rise_8932@reddit
It has.
sakmentoloki@reddit
Depends where you are. In south London there are Caribbean places everywhere, but there is a large population here.
gt94sss2@reddit
Many more people from the UK had exposure to India and the far east through the Empire, tourism and military service etc then those who served in the Caribbean.
As a result, they brought their liking for Asian flavours and spices back with them to the UK.
It's similar to how many familiar English words actually come from Indian origins such as
Atoll, avatar, bandana, bangle, blighty, bungalow, calico, cashmere, catamaran, cheetah, cheroot, chit, chutney, cot, cushy, curry, dinghy, dungarees, godown, gymkhana, gunny, guru, jodhpurs, jungle, jute, karma, kedgeree, khaki, lacquer, lilac, loot, mandarin, mantra, mogul, mongoose, mulligatawny, nirvana, palanquin, polo, pukka, punch, pundit, purdah, pyjamas, shawl, shampoo, tank, teak, tiffin, thug, veranda and yoga
starsandbribes@reddit
I wish cheap spiced mince patties (Jamaican beef patties) were a thing here. If Greggs wanted to gentrify a cultures food they’re missing a trick here. Nice simple pastry to sell.
sara61wilson@reddit
Lack of business acumen
KEW95@reddit
Why would that be? I’d have thought it’s the lack of white people able to enjoy stronger flavours.
Kcufasu@reddit
"white people" bro really has some racial hatred lol
Riovem@reddit
Because he said white people? Jesus wept. Don't be so sensitive.
KEW95@reddit
I’d be surprised if most of my downvotes aren’t from white Brits who don’t like someone thinking we have milder, blander food and tend to be less likely to enjoy stronger, spicier foods 😂 It’s just the reality of it, but as soon as “white people” are mentioned, people get defensive. We aren’t usually raised with the stronger, spicier foods, so most of us eat less of it. Most of those white Brits who eat strong, spicy Asian foods will likely also try/eat African and Caribbean foods. It really shouldn’t be such a hot take.
Riovem@reddit
Yeah don't worry about it. You saying white people don't like spicy foods causes outrage at your "racist" take
But the comment you're replying to implying that people with African or Caribbean heritage lack business acumen is just taken as is by commenters. Absolutely wild.
KEW95@reddit
Yup. That and “African food tastes like shit” are a-okay. It’s white Brits and Americans all over. We act we are the deciders of what’s good. We took all of those herbs and spices, then barely used them, but saying our food is typically mild/bland compared to Asian, African, Caribbean and South American food is racist hatred 😂
Someone even commented that I sound like a “self-loathing blue-haired weirdo” (cant see the comment, just the notification), all because I’m aware of the reality that several other countries and cultures have bolder flavours than the majority of white Brits are used to 🙄
Kcufasu@reddit
Who is "he"? The OP didn't (even assuming one's gender)
KEW95@reddit
It’s a group of people. There’s no racial anything beyond identification. How else would you describe groups when we’re talking about food like this? Would saying “men” be sexist hatred?
Kcufasu@reddit
Just feels a bit weird to bring race into it.. could just say brits
KEW95@reddit
White Brits are known for having milder, blander food than many other countries that are majority Asian or African. That’s just a fact. Most Black Brits and Asian Brits will be used to their cultural foods, whereas it will not be home cooking for most white Brits, so culture and race will have an impact on people’s palettes.
dweedman@reddit
Not sure about that - geezers love a vindaloo
KEW95@reddit
Most of them would probably give African and Caribbean curries/stews a go.
sara61wilson@reddit
That could be a reason but I don’t think it would be a top 10 reason. In my experience, a lot of Afro-Caribbean restaurants have inconsistent operating hours, the food on the menu is often not available to buy and their choice of location is poor.
lil_timmzy@reddit
What a nice generalisation.
OTribal_chief@reddit (OP)
a few people have said this - asians tend to go into self employment when they came to the uk
IslaLargoFlyGuy@reddit
Probably the economics behind it. Curry and Chinese food are fast and cheap to make. If you are making jerk chicken well it takes a long time.
codechris@reddit
London is calling from decades ago and it disagrees
OTribal_chief@reddit (OP)
but you could go to a town in the middle of wales and find an indian
you dont get hte same spread from afro-caribbean communities
codechris@reddit
People have been eating Indian food in the UK since around 1790 which will be part of the explanation, among others
AnnoyedHaddock@reddit
This. The first Indian restaurant in the UK predates the first fish and chip shop by about 50 years.
Milky_Finger@reddit
Not to gatekeep but London has a lot of Caribbean communities and they make incredible food. You live near these areas, you have lots of choice. If you don't, and you want it, then frankly anything less than authentic isnt good enough.
OkIncrease6030@reddit
It’s true that south asian restaurants are more common, but my Midlands city has plenty of Caribbean places and the food… 😋
BulldenChoppahYus@reddit
Mate just come to Brixton.
Icy_Ear7079@reddit
I lived and worked in Brixton in 2010/2011, the jerk chicken I would buy on my lunch. Outrageously good. I live in Newcastle now and have t found anything that comes close. There was a spot by the pool, behind the arches. Incredible stuff.
Milam1996@reddit
Because Chinese/Vietnamese and Indians are very very entrepreneurial whilst Afro-Caribbean people tend to to be less so. There’s a reason why Pakistanis and Arabs own all the Afro hair shops that sell almost exclusively to black people. Not really a business culture so the generational learning doesn’t occur whilst with a Pakistani family you can have 3 or 4 generations working in the same takeaway.
Calliceman@reddit
This is the answer
GonnaGetTheWonka@reddit
China and India/Pakistan have a population of 2bn+
So they already have more wealth and people than Caribbean. Plus there’s a heavy flow of new immigrants from those places that can work there.
Tony Blair put a stop to Caribbean immigration early 2000s, so you’re not going to get a lot of fresh faces from the culture that will work for cheap, like you see with curry houses.
There’s already a lot of Caribbean restaurants where Caribbean people live.
What Chinese (and I guess the Indian) did they changed their food to cater to the British palate.
Caribbean people won’t do that. And if they do they’ll alienate their base. Selling out or not doing it properly is a massive diss in the community.
Also Caribbean restaurants are cooks first business second. The don’t prioritise it as a business.
Not to mention their ignorance. The old “mi nuh have that” and the kissing of their teeth and rude behaviour . Which is overblown but definitely happens.
That being said there’s ALOT of people doing it right. Maybe they’re not in your area.
Potential_Coast8072@reddit
Depends where you are. Bristol, Birmingham and South London all have a great many Jamaican restaurants.
WildTomato9@reddit
I think it's because India and the far east (particularly Hong Kong) were on British trading routes so there is historical immigration from these areas going back a very long time - see the original Chinatown in Limehouse. Ships possibly picked up labourers along the way and they were part of the crew, lots of British people worked in India, Malaysia and Hong Kong too, so there is a level of familiarity.
Britain's African and Caribbean colonies tended not to be on trade routes with return journeys to the UK, rather they were part of the transatlantic trade in slaves. I doubt these ships had workers who stopped off in the UK, and the whole system is not respectful of indigenous people or cultures so there doesn't seem to be any appetite to share food and culture.
There are obviously large parts of London where there are a lot of people with African or Caribbean heritage and there are great restaurants, but I would agree it's not nearly as ubiquitous as Indian or Chinese cuisine.
Would be very interested to hear from an actual anthropologist on this though!
Kcufasu@reddit
If the best example of it you can come up with is nandos the that's probably why... (Though thought that was technically south African?) But the point is it just isn't that unique like indian/chinese - I'm not going to go oit my way to grab basic spiced chicken and rice as a takeaway
Riovem@reddit
They wrote it was SA
cuppachar@reddit
It might have something to do with whenever I order they usually call me half an hour later, clearly high as a kite, to tell me they don't have half the things. When we've sorted that out I can then begin the hour long wait, only for at least one item to be missing. I've got nothing against being high - that might well be why I'm ordering in the first place - but I had to give up trying to order from any of the ones near me.
It also doesn't help that even the 'non-spicy' stuff can be eye watering for a western european palate. Other spicy cuisines, eg. Indian, always have options without heat. If something is truly tasty it doesn't need to blow your head off.
DVLMN08@reddit
It’s a very popular (and tasty) cuisine in Bristol as we’ve quite a significant Caribbean culture, I can’t imagine it’s as popular in rural Scotland….
catsareniceDEATH@reddit
Because white people, and I say that as a person melaninistically challenged myself, (I said what I said! 😹) have an issue with the idea of eating anything we're not used to. As a Brit, I know, we spent decades taking over every other country, getting access to every spice known, but we have a real issue using said spices.
😹 (I'm allowed to say that, I'm a white Brit! 😹)
In all seriousness, I'd honestly say it's because people outside the afro-caribbean culture struggles to put items such as goat-meat alongside the idea of curry, despite our determination to embrace every culture we learned from.
(Please don't take the whole "en-guh-lund is great" crowd as a view of all of us. Those same people who scream about "no brown people allowed" are the same people who decide a decent Indian or Chinese takeaway is the height of posh. Most of us do our best to stay away from them.)
ObjectiveNo56@reddit
In London theirs alot
Euphoric-Pearl@reddit
It’s a good question as Jamaican food is lovely
I think maybe Jamaicans didn’t open up takeaways and restaurants as migrant communities in the 60s, 70s and 80s. So kind of lost the market to Asian food Jamaican could still get popular and tak off. Will need small business owners all around the country to get that done.
when_music_hits@reddit
Good luck getting ackee and saltfish at a reasonable price since the storms decimated the ackee trees. There's loads of west African and carribean shops around, I think the food is usually a mix of too expensive and too differently seasoned for a palate that's unfamiliar.
Ponichkata@reddit
I think it will become more common in the coming years. There are a few African restaurants in London with Michelin stars that are amazing so I'm hoping the wider food scene starts to reflect more African influences.
thierry_ennui_@reddit
Where I am in Manchester there's at least 5 within a 15 minute walk from me, they're all really good too. Think it depends on your area.
BenidormBarry@reddit
banging food. issue is we have mostly people from south asia, which is why the food is predominant.
MJ-Franklin@reddit
There's an Afro-Caribbean club in my hometown and I had some food there on a reggae night once and it blew my head off, it was everything I love about food.
Immorals1@reddit
Idk but whenever I have it it's banging, cook it alot myself
AutoModerator@reddit
Please help keep AskUK welcoming!
When replying to submission/post please make genuine efforts to answer the question given. Please no jokes, judgements, etc. If a post is marked 'Serious Answers Only' you may receive a ban for violating this rule.
Don't be a dick to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on.
This is a strictly no-politics subreddit!
Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.