Ships paying Iran in Yuan to transit Strait of Hormuz
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 126 comments
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 126 comments
ozExpatFIRE@reddit
Ships are paying Iran to pass.
Iran is selling more oil at double the price.
Russia's selling more oil at a higher price because of sanctions relief.
The Art of the Deal.
handsoapdispenser@reddit
And Yuan takes a major foothold as currency if international trade.
Apprehensive_Emu9240@reddit
It says the vessels have to be from friendly countries and "some" have to pay in Yuan or crypto currency. Doesn't seem enough to make the Yuan a major player all of a sudden. Even the Euro still dwarfs Yuan adoption.
phaedrus910@reddit
For how long
Apprehensive_Emu9240@reddit
China has so far shown its aim is an SDR of multiple currencies packaged together, though they have failed to come to agreement with other BRICS nations so far.
phaedrus910@reddit
That was before Iran's invasion. Things may accelerate
Apprehensive_Emu9240@reddit
"may". Until we have statistics backing this up, it's nothing but fantasy land.
phaedrus910@reddit
No it's watching events unfold and predicting what comes next. Historians are always right after the fact.
We're already in unprecedented territory. If you had said five years ago ships would be trading entirely in RMB you would have been laughed at
Apprehensive_Emu9240@reddit
That's not what the article says. They are NOT paying entirely in RMB. If an oil tanker leaves Kuwait it's still payed in USD, but then pays a passage fee in RMB or crypto.
Moarbrains@reddit
We rely on India to keep the dollar protected from BRICs.
ivosaurus@reddit
Of all the plausible steps the Yuan could take towards being a dominant international currency, this is an absolutely massive one that the United States never needed to allow happen.
Apprehensive_Emu9240@reddit
If this were permanent, maybe, but at this point there is no indication Iran will enforce this tax for years and decades to come. There isn't even any indication they will be capable of holding the straight under their direct control for years and decades to come.
Reserve currencies require stable constructions, not temporary ones.
monkwrenv2@reddit
Well, the US is increasing unstable, and China is currently extremely stable, so it would make sense for major players to move their investments.
AV15@reddit
Not sure if this is actually good or desirable for China but not having the USD, as I've heard about for decades, as the reserve currency and defacto petrodollar could be massive for the US, and Japan as well given how much debt they hold of ours
Illustrious-Run3591@reddit
Global hegemony of the US dollar is one of the biggest things that made you guys the superpower. In 50 years yuan is going to be the global currency, US is simply not a trustworthy partner.
Soggy_Association491@reddit
Make me wonder who have been standing behind Iran the whole time and whether attacking the one behind Iran the real goal of this war.
Cloudboy9001@reddit
Threaten to annex part of NATO then back away with nothing
Get stuck in stupid war and ask NATO for help
NATO says its not their job
Art of the Deal
Dahak17@reddit
The funny part is one of the nato countries he threatened to annex, Canada, was giving a bunch of supporting sounding words in favour of the invasion. Not saying carney wanted trump to go in so he’d be distracted but it can be interpreted that way
Biuku@reddit
Are you literally high?
Dahak17@reddit
No, remember his comments at the beginning of March, more or less encouraging the USA without saying anything binding? I’m not saying for sure that he was hoping the USA (who remember had threatened to annex us) would start a stupid war somewhere and burn out it’s military potential, but what he says fits that goal.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/carney-supports-iran-war-with-regret-9.7113538
NorthernerWuwu@reddit
He wasn't encouraging America and Israel to attack Iran, he was showing sympathy for their stated goals, while regretting the manner in which they were allegedly seeking those goals. It was dancing around the issue a bit but there's not a lot of point in just saying "this is an unlawful and unwarranted action that is antithetical to Canadian values" when we can't exactly stop them.
They are right next door after all.
Biuku@reddit
Oh, the way you wrote it sounded like Carney was supportive of the annexation of Canada.
Yes, do remember this. I thought of it as Carney being pragmatic. His opposition would not have changed the outcome. And I guess, even though we knew the US was too stupid to prosecute war against the regime in alliance with the Iranian people… or even with like a goal, still, maybe he was unwilling to condemn the US for fucking up the war until they actually did what we all expected them to do.
Dahak17@reddit
I also don’t think it’s the actual reason, but every so often r/noncrediblediplomacy must leak
Dic3dCarrots@reddit
Yesss i just found noncredibledefense, give me moar!
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TheCrazedTank@reddit
No, that’s how it was reported but what Carney actually did was give a boilerplate statement that boiled down to “America has the right to defend their interests” BEFORE they made the First Strike.
Some people took the silence immediately after the attack as endorsement but what the government was doing was preparing their next statement, which condemned America’s actions and made it crystal clear we were not going to get involved.
You know, because our government is actually ran by real adults and not idiot man child’s and their sacrificial Pick Me’s…
Significant-Mall-830@reddit
Revisionist history or fake Canadian. Carney supported the Americans and Israel’s right to defend themselves after the strikes took place. He is just as much a warmongerer as any other neoliberal leader
haggerton@reddit
The fuck are you smoking? It was AFTER they made the first strike.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-iran-liberal-caucus-9.7116694
He himself referred to the statement as being about the hostilities:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/mark-carney-5b9744205_my-statement-on-iran-related-hostilities-activity-7433488446070886400-caIl
Literal fucking history revisionism. He literally doubled down afterwards by reaffirming support:
https://globalnews.ca/news/11715023/carney-iran-war-support-australia/
Jaquemart@reddit
It's actually not NATO's job.
ChristerMLB@reddit
That's so unfair, though! the last time a conservative American president decided to invade a middle-eastern country starting with "Ira" over imaginary WMD's and declaring "mission accomplished" way too early - large parts of NATO did rush in to help!
Magjee@reddit
NATO was there in full for Afghanistan
And some went to Iraq
But ain't nobody going to Iran
Jaquemart@reddit
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”
spacedoutmachinist@reddit
Don’t forget the world will now be starting to move away from the petrodollar
LeGrandLucifer@reddit
You're watching the death throes of the American empire live. As a Canadian, it is fucking terrifying because when the beast does topple, it'll likely fall over us.
aykcak@reddit
Europe is like "What the fuck was my fault?"
imunfair@reddit
Going along with the interference in Ukraine, and not stepping up to oppose Israel's slaughter faster.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
All of it.
aykcak@reddit
Yeah we shouldn't have voted for Trump what were we thinking
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Maybe we shouldn’t collectively have supported all the US wars and hegemony.
EH1987@reddit
Masterful gambit sir.
Apprehensive_Emu9240@reddit
Not if the oil infrastructure keeps getting destroyed. In the end this may well become a lose-lose situation for everybody involved and not-involved.
vicsunus@reddit
Explains how he bankrupt a casino.
agitatedprisoner@reddit
Seems like treason.
FeralGiraffeAttack@reddit
Truly we are winning like never before
Biuku@reddit
This is how we neutralize the threat of the United States. Replace its currency. It led the free world for 75 years, and its currency became the very real definition / base unit of money globally. It was infinitely safe -- literally. All financial theory is built off an assumption that lending money to the US government is risk-free.
What that means: The US could borrow unlimited money. For other states, it was safety. Parking assets in the most trusted place.
The US massively untrustworthy, and a threat to democracy. Destroying its ability to access debt will trigger hyperinflation, choke its military, and begin an unstroppable retrenchment of power that ultimately neutralizes the US as a power.
There is no project more important for democracies than this. And, as evil as the Iranian regime is, will take the assits.
ThatHeckinFox@reddit
The problem is, those who would fill the vacuum are not exactly much better.
Zipz@reddit
Why is it that you think the world be better off with china in charge ?
Acceptable-Device760@reddit
Oh the irony of saying the US led the "free world"... Mfs discovered what the US has been doing for most of the world for decades and still with this bullshit.
You people are mad because suddenly you are getting the shorter end of the stick too.
aykcak@reddit
U.S. did actually lead the free world
...in chains.
coltzord@reddit
free world*
moonorplanet@reddit
Free world... we (USA + select ever changing vassals) are free and you work for us (the world)
HalayChekenKovboy@reddit
I couldn't have said it any better myself. America did not suddenly become evil, people. It has always been that way. It's just that your countries have profited from it before, and now that you're suffering with the rest of us, you think that what has been the mundane reality for the rest of the world is inconceivable and shouldn't be happening. The only thing that has changed is that now nobody is off-limits (with the sole exception of God's chosen country).
Ozzy_21@reddit
It's a free world, it's just that freedom is distributed very unevenly throughout the world.
Acceptable-Device760@reddit
"a free world" that the US Invaded and bombed those who didnt follow what it said.
Fuck off.
Ozzy_21@reddit
This is interesting. I'm agreeing with you, and you're telling me to fo.
Acceptable-Device760@reddit
The animal farm reference doesn't translate to this topic as well as you think.
Ozzy_21@reddit
Huh, I actually didn't know that. I thought that I came up with it myself. Probably heart or read it somewhere before.
Acceptable-Device760@reddit
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."
Biuku@reddit
This is fair and I have no disagreement with you.
procgen@reddit
When the US has nothing left to lose, they might as well destroy Canada and Mexico outright to establish a buffer. The disintegration wars of North America will kill tens of millions.
Biuku@reddit
I think a lot of Americans think the US would walk over Canada in a war. I don’t believe the US military makes the same mistake. The US military could defeat Canada’s military reasonably quickly. But we just wouldn’t fight back. Canada’s Armed Forces wouldn’t even try. It’s illogical to fight army to army. Our military would disappear, and when the invader is spread out we would fight an unconventional war of 40 million vs maybe 400,000, with the goal only of triggering the threshold at which US cannot stomach any more coffins. Thats probably not a very high number — 10,000 maybe.
The US failed to hold ground against third world populations. It would fail faster against 40 million people who look and sound exactly like them, and who are bred to draw blood on ice as children.
I-Here-555@reddit
It takes more than "it's possible". Unlike in, say, Iraq or Vietnam, there's a docile populace who never experienced much hardship. A mom from Vancouver does not just turn into an AK-47 wielding hardened guerilla. Canada's military doctrine and decades of preparation don't call for "unconventional warfare", there are zero plans or preparation in place.
Militarily, Canada would have likely been an easier target than Iran.
The "small" problem is that invasion would break the western world completely, and there certainly would be major US casualties due to geography, so the US populace would feel that war in a way they don't feel overseas conflicts. It would be a bit more visceral than $8 gasoline.
tommytwolegs@reddit
I think you somewhat underestimate how many nut jobs you guys have up there that would want to join the US
ScaryShadowx@reddit
That's no different from the number of Afghans who joined the US and had a much more compelling reason to want to join the US and oust the Taliban.
Also, a huge difference is that the US is not ready for a war on their borders. Every war that the US has fought in modern history has been far from the mainland and there was no real cost to the American public except for the draft, and that was about 60 years ago. Fighting a war on the border is logistically much easier, but at the same time, puts you much more at risk. Look at Ukraine and Russia.
tommytwolegs@reddit
I'm not advocating for or predicting a war with Canada, or Mexico for that matter. I just don't think Canadians would be as united against it as that guy seems to think they would be. I would guess it would be more similar to the Ukraine war, with certain provinces kind of deciding to join the US while others resist.
Biuku@reddit
It would be absolutely key to winning for us to divide the US public through hearts and minds. Every day, social media would show Americans images of people who look like them dying on streets and in houses that look like theirs. We would build sympathy among the US population, with concentrations in anti-MAGA states — no country is more divided than the US, and we would exploit that to put the break up of the union into play.
procgen@reddit
sure but that violence would spill out into canada. there's no way to keep that much chaos contained, and all of north america will be embroiled
tommytwolegs@reddit
Oh I'm not convinced it's even feasible. I am just suggesting how I would see it happening if they (we?) were to try
ScaryShadowx@reddit
There is no province that supports becoming a state of America, despite what American right-wing media suggests. [Support for joining America is about 10-20% across the country] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movements_for_the_United_States_annexation_of_Canada). [Even Alberta alone which is the most pro-American states don't have more than 20% in joining the US] (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-separation-poll-9.7039022), with the vast majority outright opposing it.
tommytwolegs@reddit
I mean, I've seen no indication that the majority of donbas wanted to join Russia prior to their "referendum"
My only point was that it wouldn't likely be universal resistance.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Of course there wouldn't be universal resistance, just like there would not be universal support in the US and might develop it's own insurgency within its own borders. However, no province is declaring independence and joining just because the US invades and asks.
The Ukrainian provinces didn't just join the Russians out of willingness, they joined because they were annexed, and they are still having a war.
tommytwolegs@reddit
They are having a war but the people remaining there are largely just the ones that are in favor of joining Russia at this point. It's not like there is some pro Ukrainian insurgency going on in the donbas of any significance.
If it were ever to occur, I'd expect the US would take largely the same strategy, spending years fomenting an "independence movement" in some of the more impressionable provinces and then not subtly supporting a rebellion.
I don't see it happening though
Biuku@reddit
Yeah, it makes sense that someone from another country would understand my country better than I do. Drat, forgot to think of that.
tommytwolegs@reddit
I mean you said 40 million, which assumes 100% resistance. You guys have plenty of nutjob trump supporters just as we do that would probably welcome the invasion if not actively help.
rattleandhum@reddit
Likely true.
We can't say it didn't come with ample warning from allies and academics.
NearABE@reddit
You are only making a suggestion if you name which currency is the new money.
I-Here-555@reddit
Shouldn't be a single currency controlled by one national gov't. Why make the same mistake again?
Biuku@reddit
That has not been determined. Ultimately, central and private bankers will decide what has the gravity. All that can be done is to continue to reduce the USD's gravity while elevating candidate currencies. At the right moment, what it will look like is a coordinated global dumping of US debt -- which has always been a well-known threat to Trump that has caused him to reverse course several times. The ability of the US government to continue to borrow to pay the interest on its debt depends on the trust of a lot of the world's capital. It could be 3 years or more before that inflection point is triggered. Slow, then quickly. Once it is, the end is inevitable.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Let’s hope that no single currency replaces the US dollar and that we go to a multi-polar world.
Levitz@reddit
The loss of power of the largest democracy in the world, with the corresponding increase of power of the largest dictatorship in the world, is the most important project for democracies?
Russian propaganda really did a number on you guys.
Biuku@reddit
I don’t think the US is seen as a democracy by most of the world. In the sense that gerrymandering and foreign control of its government have detached US policies from the goals of the people.
But more important, the US was supported by its allies as hegemon from the end of WWII until… recent months. That is dead. Americans don’t seem to have digested this fully yet, but US power is no longer the tip of the spear of the Western World. It’s only a US spear. Dad came within an inch of killing one of the kids — the family isn’t a family. The post-war order is dead, and there is no future in which the US leads anything. That in itself doesn’t remove the US as a global power, but it’s no longer something anyone can trust. Americans will kill my kids without hesitation, just as the joke about killing Persian kids. So, the only path forward is to try to appease US power until we can destroy the country monetarily. With that, its military and social order will just collapse.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
I doubt that our allies would be so eager to abandon us, be we will see
coltzord@reddit
you cant put tarrifs, threaten invasion and all other general crap that has been going on and then say theyre "abandoning" you lmao
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
yeah thats our bad
Biuku@reddit
Your allies have already abandonded you. If it feels otherwise, it's working.
The post-war period had an actual bond between Western Europe, Canada/US, AU, NZ... In 9/11, we were 1000% with the US.
Two events ended the post-war era:
No country can elect a man like Trump twice and be allowed to keep nukes. Every US admin since 1950 would have destroyed a country led by a man like Trump that attempted to obtain nukes.
The 2024 US election showed that Americans can easily be led to elect a new Trump forever, and thus threaten Canada, Denmark, NATO, democracy forever.
You think you have allies. In fact, there is a cold world war to control and subdue US power. Trump is stupid, it is easy to make him feel loved as we approach monetary control of the US.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Largest democracy in the world? It's not the largest, that's India by a long margin. It's not the most Democratic, nor is it even classified as a true democracy any longer and is classified as a flawed democracy, even before the rise of Trump.
Once again, people drinking the American kool-aid.
marshsmellow@reddit
Largest democracy in the world, by area.
Ambiwlans@reddit
Canada. 9.9m km^2 vs America's 9.5
marshsmellow@reddit
Lol, bizarre. completely forgot about Canada!?
Ambiwlans@reddit
America will be #1 once Trump conquers Cuba and Greenland and Canada... and w/e other countries are on his wish list.
Biuku@reddit
I'm not sure if you're joking, but let's not joke about the US conquoring Canada. That kind of thing doesn't end well for folks here.
Ambiwlans@reddit
None of this insanity does. At least losing to Iran might convince him to not start more wars....
Biuku@reddit
Dude. Aren't you guys British?
Biuku@reddit
Largest democracy in the world by ratio of letters needed to spell Photography in its native tongue: Grianghrafadóireachta.
novae_ampholyt@reddit
Is the US and democracy?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
!remindme 1 year
Herr_Tilke@reddit
The end of the petrodollar.
The end of free trade.
The end of the American empire.
"Praise be to Allah."
The American public needs to acknowledge they have been lied to, and this administration does not have the ability to deliver what was promised.
aykcak@reddit
If this means we collapse the western civilization to build it up from scratch, I am all for it
johannthegoatman@reddit
It wouldn't be built from scratch, it'd be warlords controlling regions and a drastic, incomprehensible decrease in quality of life and freedoms. The literal best case scenario would be getting back to democracy, which we have now, and could just fix. Guess what, in your hypothetical burn it down situation, the country is still full of all the same idiots we have now, so you'd lose all protections and rights that are still functioning and just hand the reigns to these same idiots, likely lead by violent billionaires
ThatHeckinFox@reddit
Ah, yes repeat the cycle, weeee!
No. Democracy is what got us in to this mess in the first place. 80% of humanity, regardless of sex, gender, race, culture, age, etc, are so fucking stupid, every tied shoelace you see should be documented by the Vatican as a miracle.
Unless we wrench the control of the mental asylum away from the patients, we are FUCKED. If the west really gets a chance to start over, we need to push for an epistocracy with all our might.
fuckyou_redditmods@reddit
Some would argue that is precisely what US and Israel are doing today
Biuku@reddit
It was clear to everyone by 2017 that Trump is completely evil and a moron.
The fact more than 5% of Americans did not figure that out, I do not understand how that country continues to exist. Even today, an idiotic No Kings protest achieved ... exactly nothing. Weak cowardly people who kill Iranians... who are actually willing to die for freedom, unlike Americans.
The US will be ruled by kings, and elect kings, forever. That cannot be allowed in the country that also controls the US military.
imunfair@reddit
What were you expecting a protest against kings in a democracy that has no kings to accomplish? Whoever thought up that kings slogan to replace the pussy hat marches was an idiot.
Biuku@reddit
Agree. Americans have tremendous power though. A general strike where 30% of workers call in sick could bring the economy to a stop. The government can’t shoot protesters who are home sick… or it’s unlikely. Destroying the economy gives people power. I’ve never had someone online say it’s impossible for them to do this. To me, that means the stakes aren’t clear.
imunfair@reddit
Only salary workers can afford to do that and most critical roles are hourly. Plus certain transportation roles are compulsory and not allowed to strike for exactly the reason you think they should.
Biuku@reddit
I love it.
The country was founded by revolutionaries. Now, every single American has an excuse for why it’s too hard to … not even face combat against your government, not even chain yourselves to things, but just to call in sick. Like this isn’t a crisis.
All of you are Trump. All of you are responsible for what he does. If he nukes Iran because it was a little inconvenient to fight your government, you will have nuked Iran. And whatever happens to you people you will deserve it
ThatHeckinFox@reddit
To be fair, most americans live in such financial precarity that losing their job would make them homeless with in a single month at best. To be a little less fair, they are in that situation because they didn't nip anarcho-capitalism in the bud.
I am not judging tho, I too would be too much of a coward to make a revolution.
imunfair@reddit
Don't get salty with me just because I explained the reality of the situation to you. You said no one had told you why it was impossible, I gave you the reasons it's very unlikely. Turns out people like to be able to eat, and make it a priority over hopes and dreams.
allcretansareliars@reddit
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why America is screwed. Lots of big talk, then when the rubber hits the road "oh no, if I take any action, I might not be able to afford my chicken nuggets".
Here's a suggestion, how about regarding the circumstances as a reason why you need to win, not for inaction.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Pretty much. America wants a king, they want a dictator, they want someone who will 'protect' them in a way they don't have to think for themselves and are happy to be serfs as long as someone tells them they are special.
loggy_sci@reddit
You guys are writing some scorching hot fan fiction up in this subreddit lol
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Complete immunity to the executive office. Presidential pardons for friend and people who can pay the bribe. Ignoring judicial orders. Federal departments used as political tools to silence opposition. Unapproved wars of aggression. Military actions deposing foreign heads of state without Congressional approval. Tariffs at the behest of the President without Congress. Openly bragging about potentially, and actively carrying out war crimes at the direction of the President. Funneling money to private accounts and insider trading. All with no repercussion.
No, the US has a king all but in name, and he still has significant support. Hell, I would say there would probably be more repercussions to some of the absolute monarchies out there if their leader acted this way.
Biuku@reddit
Unfortunately, I agree.
moonorplanet@reddit
The end of the petrodollar.
The beginning of free trade.
PTMorte@reddit
Thats funny. My country Australia signed free trade deals with the UK, EU, UAE and India in the past year.
beansthemajicalfruit@reddit
Lol, Allah already said "praise be to America".
Good luck ignoring it....
metameh@reddit
vince-mcmahon.meme
VladimiroPudding@reddit
Now, that is outrageous.
According to the Project 2025 Tracker, Trump accomplished over 50% of the Project so far, in just a bit over 1 year of presidency.
The administration absolutely are delivering what was promised.
r0w33@reddit
It's delivering exactly what it promised. Just the promises weren't made in America.
AccurateLaugh50@reddit
The ships are paying Iran the "toll fee" in Yuan. They aren't paying them in Yuan for Iranian oil.
Saying another currency will simply replace the US dollar because Iran implemented a toll fee is idiotic.
!Remind me in 4 years
NearABE@reddit
Oh come on. Only fools expected anything except chaos from Trump. He did not promise to subjugate Iran. He promised to increase oil/gas drilling. With the skyrocketing price of crude there should be lots of drilling. He promised deportations and closed borders. Not only did he deliver on the border, he has armed thugs executing women driving on city streets. He promised to attack the affordable care act and people really are losing their healthcare. He promised a trade war, we have tariffs.
The incoherent rage babble was also fully expected. If anyone could predict it in detail then it would not have fulfilled the promise of unpredictable senile behavior. He really is delivering on the senility that we were expecting.
russellvt@reddit
Nor did they ever have the intention.
Herr_Tilke@reddit
Well sure, but intentions are always hard to prove. People who voted for Donald desperately want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think it's worth focusing on what trump can (no longer) do for those voters going forwards, not on what he wanted to do before now.
FeralGiraffeAttack@reddit
People who voted for Trump more than once are terminally stupid and incapable of learning from their mistakes
ArdaBerkBurak@reddit
That orange idiot was having a nervous breakdown because the Strait of Hormuz was closed. It's closed to US ships because you attacked Iran; it was open to everyone before the attack.
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