AI Engineer, France or Canada ?
Posted by jiii95@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 33 comments
Hello, so I read many past similar posts, and found out most people preferring France over Canada. I am going to detail my life so I can see other perspectives on my already made decision.
I studied stats and data in Italy for BA, then a second BA in computer science at a Parisian university, then an MA in AI in Paris. I worked two years with an American multinational as AI Engineer, and now working with another startup in Lyon in the same field. I am from a Muslim background, quite liberal in some areas, conservative in most others, and very conservative in some other ones. I speak English natively, and French around B2 level.
Now it has been 5 years since I am in France, but the idea to move to Canada has been bugging my mind for quite a bit. Firstly, I ll talk why I want to move to Canada, and then I ll outline the reasons that remind me from time to time, why I want to quit France.
Firstly, I am a big fan of north american lifestyle, having lived in the US for two years when I was 12. I almost listen to bluegrass and country music everyday. I almost master the cultural codes and references. I read American literature and philosophy all the time. I love the mindset of freedom and adevnture and risk that categorises north America. Even clothes, I wear only north American style clothes, and I was told that. For me Canada/USA culutrally not a big difference culturally, generally speaking, I wouldn't live in the US because of politics. I love the Canadian wilderness, as I am a hunter as well, a tradition of family. I love nature and greenness and wide spaces in an insane manner. It is a real therapy for me. Recently, I got in contact with someone who is trying to find me a job there, he s a senior manager in a company there. The list goes on and on.
Secondly, when I came to France, I fell in love with this country, the rich history and culture, relaxed job culture and quality of life, crazy and diversity of nature, as I have lived in Brittany, Avignon, Paris, and now in Rhone close to Alpes. These factors made me fell in love with this country, but not long enough until I started to feel disappointed, I am someone who values his dignity a lot, and I felt that the racism in France is a real thing (I am the last person to adopt victimhood discourse, usually, if you tell me something not Ok, I would reply with something way worse, without hestiation, but I am not into that business, I love quite peaceful life !), if not direct sometimes, then subtle most of the time, from different directions, because of my name, you feel you re always suspected, it is seen and felt. What made the situation worse, is the politics nowadays, and the media having all freedom to say whatever they want about Muslims, but you can't say a damn one word of truth about something else ! People wise, I have no issue, nor generalisation in my mind, I find the French the I d like my children to be like, because I resemble them as well, personality wise, but it is a paradox hahaha Lastly, there is a huge sense of hierarchy in the society, or in the corporate world, which is not suitable for me as well, I know very well, it is not the case in Canada this hierarchy thing as in France, and of course in Canada, Muslims have it easier, it is a fact, I don't need an opinion ont this, not read, heard from many friends's mouth, as I have many friends in Canada.
Professionally, I feel I will be stuck with a very low salary here in France (45k), and with less probability to go up in the professional upward mobility ladder. Contrary to Canada, I know close friends went really quickly up there. Given also I am in the AI field, I feel Canada would be better for me, as they are now laser focusing on developing this area well, also, I intend to found a startup, and given proximity to the US, things can go well given the right circumstances. Also salary wise, Canada offers a high salary, but some might say, well, you have less offer in healthcare, housing and so on, but that s debatable.
Family wise, I d love my kids to grow up in a society where they re not hated, stigmatised, and pscyhologically well, not many, not all, of type of unfortunately psychologically affected generations that grew up in France with Muslim or Arab names and origins. I still have no kids, I am only 30.
Lastly, I read before comparision opinions about Canada Vs. France, and most of it is about healthcare system, salary, and those typical topics, but I tried to lay down above, how I personally feel about it.
In summary, it seems France can be a great place for "Whites" (No negative connotation, just a description :) ), or even Asians, but those with Arab or Muslim origins, it seems, the atmosphere is amplifying day by day, given that the political discourse shifted from security/crime delinquency to civilisational clash and identity politics, which is a major shift. Canada, for someone with my origins, fortunately with the field I am in, is the optimal place. Because before thinking about money, days off per year, or whatever, there is the psychological aspect and comfort matter a great deal, if not all the deal, surely not all those with my origins would share the same situation of life and analysis, but surely someone and many I know told me so. l also haven't yet bought any property or something like that, and not married, but with someone, so quite mobile !
I would love to hear your counter arguments, show me errors or gaps in my personal analysis, or if I am just exaggerating, thank you very much !
Longjumping-Word8336@reddit
If you want to make money, don’t stay in France
jiii95@reddit (OP)
Yes I want ;) ! Thanks !
According-Egg-3131@reddit
I would say the same, if you want to make money, don't stay in Canada. It's gotten to a point that it only makes sense to move if you move with money.
jiii95@reddit (OP)
Okey, I talked yesterday to someone in Montreal working in IT, he s helping me find a job there, he s well paid, and told me things might be looking bad now, but definitely things will improve, for long-term immigration plan like mine, I wouldn't dismiss the entire country based on that, US is difficult to go to now, surley you can make a lot of money there, who knows, I might find some remote work from there, we will see, but thanks for your comment !
According-Egg-3131@reddit
Not dismissing Canada. Really there are some amazing things about the country. Personally, I haven't lived in the country for 12 years now and I wouldn't think of moving unless there was a 50% down payment on a house. The taxes are brutal, you wonder where your taxes go to and chips away at wealth building.
Throwing an idea out there, have you checked out Singapore, New Zealand or Hong Kong? For example Singapore is looking to bring in 30-50k professionals with a PR pathway mapped out already for this year. Salaries are high, taxes are low. Alternatively find a remote job and work in Southeast Asia or Latin America
jiii95@reddit (OP)
I won't go to Singapore or Asia even for a substantially higher salary, I am interested in Canada and its way of life ! I didnt say I had a Canadian living with us for a year when I was 14, and the guy left a very good impression on the family, so they are also interested to send other siblings there, meaning to Canada.
According-Egg-3131@reddit
It's just not the right place to be IMO at this time. Eventually I would love to go back, but to build wealth, it's the wrong country.
jiii95@reddit (OP)
Okey, noted. You build or think you can build wealth in France ?
According-Egg-3131@reddit
Neither. Both countries are places you come back to once you've built wealth in another country
jiii95@reddit (OP)
Fair enough, though how many of those countries to build life in :p ? USA, Singapore, and ?
According-Egg-3131@reddit
Many! So many amazing countries to build a life in. Find a remote job and work in Southeast Asia or Latin America. If you want to be in an office that doesn't tax like crazy, Hong Kong or Singapore.
I just want to be clear that my comments aren't to discourage you from going to Canada. Honestly, Canada is fantastic for many reasons, but it has many caveats at this time. You can prepare your living expenses in advance before arriving and it will still catch you off guard and realise after all expenses and some enjoyment, you're not ahead. To give you a super simple example, 50% Canadian household incomes go to their mortgage with a 20% down payment. This is not living... You become a bitch to the system that is supposedly there to help you, but in reality it's a rat race that is difficult to get out once you're in. And if you do choose to leave the country at a later date, you've earned a CAD dollar which is incredibly weak that you'll need to save up even more to make an international move possible.
I love my country but it's not a place to build wealth.
jiii95@reddit (OP)
Well, I can't agree with you more, I am waiting for a job offer in CA, then I will see what I can do ! Thanks a lot!
Electronic-Call-4319@reddit
why do you care what we think? do what's best for you
jiii95@reddit (OP)
Have you taken an 101 on Aristotle ? He famously said: Human is a social animal ! Can you live in a country where they bash YOU from A to Z, and just "do what s best for you" ? I don't think, and I d understand
Electronic-Call-4319@reddit
You just a whole bunch of mumble jumble. You don't have offline friends and community?
jiii95@reddit (OP)
I dooo, I am talking about adopting a country for long-term immigration and kids and so on, and calling a country "home", not about day to day living, what I talk about is "prospective thinking"
zinjanthropus99@reddit
You could have used AI and added a TLDR.
According-Egg-3131@reddit
Canadian here. Just be mindful that the salaries are way below US averages even in the most senior roles, plus you'll be paying 40-52% tax depending on the province you choose. At the end of the day, even a 300k salary you end up with ~140kish after taxes. If you're set on Canada though, Montreal would be your best bet for AI engineering.
jiii95@reddit (OP)
Perfect, it is the province I am intending to go to now ! And, neither in France you d be making money.
I have friends already in Shebrooke, Quebec city, and Gatineau !
According-Egg-3131@reddit
Immigration is your next hurdle. Quebec is not opening immigration applications till June this year and have waiting times up to 36 months. If you want to go to Canada sooner, you'd be better off going to another province and living there for 12 months to then move afterwards.
Canada offers a lot of great things, but the taxes and the cost of things are higher than the US, plus a weaker currency. Just be mindful of this as you need to plan correctly.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
And very cold weather
According-Egg-3131@reddit
Part of the experience though! Wrap your mind around it appreciate it, it works
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Too funny. Life is too short to live in a climate like Canada. Fortunately I was able to move from there to a much warmer climate and better quality of life (including Private healthcare options).
According-Egg-3131@reddit
Oh I hear you! I haven't lived in Canada for 12 years. It's a trap haha
jiii95@reddit (OP)
I started my Arrima application for PSTQ, and I intend to go first on a work permit, but I didn't know about the June thing, thanks a lot ! Yes, I am mindful of those issues in details, still, things will improve in Canada :)
HotMountain9383@reddit
Deleted my original comment. "Whites" (No negative connotation, ju....
Really. Just fuck off.
jiii95@reddit (OP)
I meant, I am not using "Whites" with the same connotation as used in anti-white discourse, so I made sure I meant it in a respectful way to describe those with usually European descent, I have no idea why it angered you. But yeah, I will fuck off from this comment !
HotMountain9383@reddit
Let me educate you.
Using the term “whites” is reductive and can come across as disrespectful or racist. It’s part of the problem.
jiii95@reddit (OP)
Okey, then I will change it, sorry for offence, I accept this piece of education
HotMountain9383@reddit
Accepted and understood. Thank you for being a nice human. Does not happen often of Reddit.
I send you love and respect.
jiii95@reddit (OP)
You are welcome !
HotMountain9383@reddit
Nobody gives a flying fuck about your color but you. Make it a backpack and fuck off somewhere else.
We really do not care, if you are good at your job and nice to get along with them that is all.
Seriously.
d3fenestrator@reddit
> I am from a Muslim background
anywhere but France