Airport design
Posted by Mtownsprts@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 36 comments
If the impossible turn is a thing, why don't they include extra field space near the property of the runway area that would allow you to touchdown before 1,000 AGL in case of engine failure below 1,000 ft? like an extra patch cleared at the end of runways specifically for the plane to touchdown if the engine failed?
I have been to airports with legit no place to set down in an emergency during takeoff failure below 1k feet and the "impossible" turn would make it so the only option I have is the gentle attempt to put the plane down in the wooded area. Is it just a cost thing?
voretaq7@reddit
Land - and this is critical to understand - costs MONEY.
Airports, especially small municipal/GA airports, cannot afford to buy that much land.
Rainebowraine123@reddit
Yes. It is super impractical to do for all GA airports. Most of the area around airports is already developed. Clearing wooded areas just isn't worth the 0.001% chance the engine fails. Not to mention the environmental cost.
chuckop@reddit
All your protection is designed for forward collisions; seat belts, crumble area, etc.
A vertical impact affords no protection; the seat will collapse, and all the impact forces will be borne by your spine.
Controlled flight into something is always going to be better than uncontrolled falling.
SimilarTranslator264@reddit
I always tell people the trees are surprisingly soft at the top.
Schmergenheimer@reddit
Balloons will intentionally hit the tops of trees to slow down
SimilarTranslator264@reddit
Joe Dirt taught me everything I know about hot air balloons
ApprehensiveVirus217@reddit
Surprisingly survivable. Not stall/spinning is really the only thing you need to avoid.
cptnpiccard@reddit
They do. Then they fill that space with runway, and say the runway is longer.
182RG@reddit
Real estate is expensive.
mduell@reddit
We’d have fewer more expensive airports.
Necessary_Topic_1656@reddit
Don’t go to Miami where they built a brand new MLS soccer stadium right next to Miami Intl.
scottyh214@reddit
Trying to build any type of infrastructure with every single contingency in mind is impossible. Land is expensive. Clearing trees is expensive. Defending expensive decisions against non aviation homeowners that want that extra piece of land for their outdoor catio or whatever is expensive. And what’s the likelihood that someone’s engine is going to quit RIGHT THERE. What if it’s a half mile later, but it’s a hot day so lift isn’t great. Why didn’t we build it another mile out? It just a snowball that never makes sense.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
The world doesn't revolve around tiny airports, my guy.
notaballitsjustblue@reddit
Wayne reason we don’t make the entire world a runway.
prex10@reddit
It took like 15 years of lawyering to buy up one neighborhood to build 10L/28R at ORD.
Land is expensive, and always available. Denver is one of the few major hubs, if not the only hub, that is an endless playground to build.
notnormal999@reddit
Because that’s where they build all the houses people move into so they can complain about the noise.
flyingron@reddit
If they had room to do that, they'd likely just make the runway longer (possibly with displaced thresholds if there are obstacles). If you fear not being able to safely commit the "impossible" turn, and you have lots of runway, you're free to start your rotation further down.
Having executed the impossible turn once (after engine failure), I didn't get anywhere near close to running off the end but the Navion with gear and flaps out is a drag puppy.
FridayMcNight@reddit
I think it’s all a balance of cost. Maintaining an airport surface costs money (ignoring Stovepipe Wells, lol). We see some old former Air Force bases that have narrowed and shortened runways (eg KMER).
FeatherMeLightly@reddit
Impossible turn, any turn given the circumstances may become impossible, you just can't plan for every event.
Also impossible is knowing when an engine or other emergency is going to arise. You could have 12000 foot of runway and in the last 10 feet, something catastrophic happens and that's that.
That all said, one of the details we should be looking at, especially GA, in preflight is a satellite image of the departure ends of the rw's and making a couple notes about where you might ditch if something happens in that critical phase of take off. There is almost always some space to put down and while you may not have a plane left, you have a chance to walk away and not endanger lives on the ground.
Sometimes not, but, utilizing all the tools available to you is a pilots responsibility. We have so much tech now, there really is no excuse except laziness, for not using the technology to know damn near every option available to you if you have an issue in those critical moments of flight.
pattern_altitude@reddit
That’s just not a practical solution.
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
I give you converse airport in Indiana.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/lJXQJLMnI4
carl-swagan@reddit
Because land is expensive.
thatTheSenateGuy@reddit
That, or there was land there 80 years ago when the airport was constructed.
eSUP80@reddit
Exactly this. Airports WERE built with extra space around them, but development creeped in and here we are in 2026 trying not to crash into houses in our 50 year old single pistons
EliteEthos@reddit
So, you’re arguing for bigger runways? Bigger property? Bigger airport environments?
Things cost money dude. We can just make the whole world safe and leveled/cleared for the rare event of a GA airplane with an engine failure after takeoff.
BathtubInTheSky@reddit
At that point why don't we just make the runway 800 ft wide and 5 miles long
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
They should also make sure that land below all the approach, departure, arrival procedures, as well as airways (also 5 miles left and right of it) is clear of any obstructions, with a neatly maintained grass or ideally a paved surface, just in case you have to make an emergency landing. /s
Serious answer: runways at properly certified airports need to have an appropriately sized runway strip that is full of any unneccesary obstacles, which provide safety in case of a runway excursion (longitudinal or lateral), but what you're asking is not really viable at a lot of places.
If you're really concerned about this, you have two options really:
Don't fly to airfields, where sorrounding terrain doesn't offer you forced landing options according to your risk appetite.
Get an airplane with another engine, ideally a turbine one, and only depart if you can guarantee OEI performance from V1 onwards, i.e. what the airlines do.
Crusoebear@reddit
$$$$$$
Next question.
Sharp_Experience_104@reddit
Longer runways, stopways, and clearways are ideal. But developers gotta develop. Often that means encroachment right up to the boundary fence. Followed by Karens suing over noise.
nickjohnson@reddit
If your plane climbs and descends at 500ft/minute and 60knots, your clearway would have to be 4nm long.
Frost_907@reddit
Because the cost to clear the area and maintain it from regrowing would be really high and the chances that it would actually save someone are quite rare. Most airports that would have the funding available for a project like that are usually located in more developed areas that would be impossible to add it without displacing people from their homes or businesses.
QuazyQuA@reddit
Airports dont even want to cut trees down man
bustervich@reddit
Let’s see who wins on today’s battle between risk management and economics!
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
This is technically a thing. It’s called a stop way. But I think the greater problem is development creep from surrounding properties. An airport might want to have some open space around the airport but they don’t always control if a warehouse gets built Nextdoor
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
You must be joking
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
If the impossible turn is a thing, why don't they include extra field space near the property of the runway area that would allow you to touchdown before 1,000 AGL in case of engine failure below 1,000 ft? like an extra patch cleared at the end of runways specifically for the plane to touchdown if the engine failed?
I have been to airports with legit no place to set down in an emergency during takeoff failure below 1k feet and the "impossible" turn would make it so the only option I have is the gentle attempt to put the plane down in the wooded area. Is it just a cost thing?
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